The first half might be one of my favorite GDC talks ever. Dense, no filler, and lots of examples from all kinds of games. Blocking is one of the things that you might not even notice as a player unless it's broken, so this is some really good insight. I see a lot of indie devs obsessing over creating assets, tweaking lighting and post-processing effects etc before they even blocked the level.
I especially love the second talk about lighting. It so well condenses the incredibly complex topic of lighting in games. Yang is a great guy. It was a masterful and entertaining presentation which I always like to rewatch every now and then.
This is sooo fricking SMART.... This should 100% be used in Open world games which many dont actually do. Denial Affordance and Regular Affordance needs to be demonstrated more in many games.
and here i am turning the traversal difficulty of shadow of the tomb raider to hard, in order to get rid of those visual cues for climable areas. did i die because of misjumps regularly? sure. but i also felt much more accomplished when i reached a tricky spot. so what i am saying is: there is a flip side to affordance.
Robert Yang: - in Unity do _this_ - and in Unreal _do that_ - (and if you use Source, you're f#%ked because you have to use lightmaps and compile everytime you want to see changes)
I like how a single line flew completely past the usual whiny gamer squad, causing their usual shrieking. Nothing seems to trigger gamers more than a single word. Great talk, for both halves.
Lol. Why would a "Gamer" be on GDC page watching Level design and Lighting tips. Are you so full of yourself that everyone else other than yourself on this pages are not for learning stuff? The dude said something dumb and here you are defending him with your last breath. He says He is not calling out Bethesda and then proceeds to call out Bethesda for their play testers not playing as Black characters enough and that being an example of Institutional Racism. Please enlighten us, how could you interpret that? Are you one of those people who hates everything and anything that Bethesda does and want their games to fail? Because I have seen a bunch of people who want that.
A single line that had NO BUSINESS BEING IN THE PRESENTATION! If he had said Let's have a round of applause for heterosexual sex, there would have been an uproar, and he'd be called a sexist.
Don't be inflammatory please, it's not that. We're all here for the same purpose: to learn how to make games better. But don't you see the problem here? The second guy is obviously knowledgable in his field and I grabbed some great lighting tips from him. Thus, as a game maker, I'm grateful he wasn't barred from being a developer because of his sexual preferences. At the same time, such comments don't belong in a workshop like this. Would people be equally OK if the first guy said 'Yeah for straight sex?'.
Meh, straight sex is the norm and seen everywhere. As obvious as it should be, some people seem to not realize it would read completely different if someone said "Yeah for straight sex". Also different from "Yeah for sex". If this guy wants to celebrate his own sexuality publicly as a political statement, and it ends up upsetting so many people, maybe it ends up proving there's a need for it? I for one, found it awkward and silly, but nothing so worth of mention. He opened with it, and moved on with the topic. And yes, if people make games that play worse for dark skinned characters, it's perfectly okay to use them as an example, and question them for that. I don't know if it's institutional or subconscious or what, but it does feel like a (subtle/minor) form of racism for sure. And it's also very much on topic. BTW, some are saying stuff like "irl i can't see my black friends at night lol". Yeah, irl someone throws 15 arrows at you and you're dead, you don't have cross hairs in the middle of your sight, the places to which you want to go don't usually have magic markers, inhabited caves don't usually have light sources strategically placed in every corner... Games deviate from reality all the time to make them better/easier/more fun to play, so point seems to stand.
Algorithms and physical models can hardly be called racist/sexist, but I guess anything goes these days. I think it would be utterly ironic to write, for example, a new PBR shader just to make dark skinned characters stand out. Not to mention there would definitely be people who'd call this racist too, as it would whiten black characters. The point isn't that this guy's sexuality shouldn't be celebrated. It's just that anyone who isn't in a 'minority' has to tippy toe around issues so as not to offend. Either we are all equal or we aren't.
The first talk was fantastic. The second talk started very unprofessional. It is not professional to ask in a conference for your audience to cheer for sex, no matter what type.
I agree. Very cringe. Its certainly not acceptapted by everyone. Especially those of us that follow the Laws of God. Fortunately, the talk about light was interesting and worth watching, I now just wish it was somebody else doing the talk.
Please give us OPTION TO REMOVE OBVIUOS PATHS LIKE WHITE PAINT 😂 I miss the sense of discovery. Shadow of the tomb raider is the best one at this. It offers sll kind of options to customize your experience
Ignoring the 2nd presenter's case on gay and race topics (I'm just going to pass it off as him wanting to express himself), I enjoyed it. There are really clear examples from both presenters and they make the concepts fairly easy to understand. As for black characters in video games, it's weird to bring in lighting effects in politics. Hell I can't see my black friend clearly at night at times compared to fairer folks and I don't see why video games are an exception. It's just the way it is. Lots of games do try to get around making black characters definable, like making the skin fairer, light tattoos to bring out dark skin, bright or reflective clothing or accessories, defined facial features with bright eyes and redder lips, white facial hair or colored head hair, etc.
The times have become so mentally diseased that people overreact to non issues, and deny reality on the basis of some groundless made-up, weaponized political buzzword.
Exactly, thank you!! How does he think it works in nature then? If you need 100 lights because someone has dark skin then they are not going to look very natural in the game either...
Matheus Lacerda you realize dozens of other games manage to light dark skin properly. It’s not political to point out that Bethesda didn’t do the best job, especially since kidders have figured a way to do just what he was talking about with no noticeable performance hit to even low end machines. Bethesda needs to pull their shit together and do better
@@davantejohnson5980 "It’s not political to point out that Bethesda didn’t do the best job," The speaker literally said light is political, emphasized with big, red highlighted text. I know this is a 2 year old comment but I couldn't resist.
Actually, idiotic brain corrupted people are political. Things have become this bad that reality is taking a back seat to nonsense public domain concepts, and there has to be some kind of latent apologetics with regards to how reality is.
In FA new vegas (the same engine as Skyrim) I have a character with a red handle bar moustache, red hair, is very pale, has a strong jawline, isn't obese and traipses around the desert with no equipped clothing save for a cowboy hat. I don't look act or dress like that in real life, but if I wanted to I could also be whatever I wanted besides that. FA: NV could have outright disallowed players to customize skin tone, or really ANYTHING, but they didn't. Don't hate them for trying. Don't hate Bethesda for trying. Secondly, they've updated their graphics engine since then and it surpasses greatly what it did in 2013 (Skyrim).
Blue Phoenix he used an example from Skyrim, it still looks kinda bad. It took kidders to make Bethesda’s lighting work the way it should (with little to no performance impact. I should know bc I play it both on my gaming pc and my crappy work laptop). Also he wasn’t criticizing Bethesda so much as saying that they can do better. Expect more from your media.
Lots of practically creative tips in here. Really liked it. I wish I had more resources like that especially around lighting. Could've done without the "lighting darker characters poorly is a form of racism" thing because I think shit like that takes the spotlight off of productive conversation about racism and waters down the word. It's also just fucking stupid :p
First half was great, but you lost me at "Let's have a round of applause for GAY SEX!" No place for that in a lecture. Also, Institutionalized racism for not lighting a black character as well? Come on man!
these SJW's man. I don't actually think they do, what they do, for their cause. they just want to make a statement, which is very toxic. I wouldn't listen to these people even if they were rallying my rights.
@@mulls9281 They do what they do for their cause. The problem is that they don't realize that the cause is toxic and destructive. It's like throwing a nuclear bomb to a city and saying: "Don't worry everything is going to be alright because it's a warm box of love, just sit back and enjoy. Oh you don't like it, you're a bigot and a whatever-ist, DIE!". And then everything goes to sh*t, them included.
People in the comments trying to downplay the issue by saying stuff like "physics isn't racist". If you can't make out a black person in *direct sunlight* , you have failed in your lighting design. Your game is broke. And lighting in video games was not even remotely physical until PBR. Poor GI and ambient light, nonlinear textures, incorrect albedos, lack of PBR are all issues that have plagued video games for decades. I don't care if the second presenter offended you. If you can't see the forest here, you don't belong in the industry. Like, imagine telling your director that you can't light Morgan Freeman's face in the film because physics makes black people invisible LMAO. Cue the "it's not about lighting, it's about ethics in GDC presentations" responses below.
The first half might be one of my favorite GDC talks ever. Dense, no filler, and lots of examples from all kinds of games.
Blocking is one of the things that you might not even notice as a player unless it's broken, so this is some really good insight. I see a lot of indie devs obsessing over creating assets, tweaking lighting and post-processing effects etc before they even blocked the level.
instablaster
Man, I'll never take lightly blockout anymore, the most timesaver resource for a level designing. Thanks for updating this video!
I especially love the second talk about lighting. It so well condenses the incredibly complex topic of lighting in games. Yang is a great guy. It was a masterful and entertaining presentation which I always like to rewatch every now and then.
Love the first half of this video. David Shaver has a very informative take on the subject. Well done
This is sooo fricking SMART.... This should 100% be used in Open world games which many dont actually do. Denial Affordance and Regular Affordance needs to be demonstrated more in many games.
I followed the course by Emilia Schatz from Naughty Dog (CGMA), and this presentation is a very good summary of it all
The first talk is very much basic painting/composition/art stuff, like 90% of it. Really emphasizes to me the importance of the fundamentals
Great talk! who wouldn't want to get pro tips from a Naughty Dog employee! Well done GDC
Came for Bob Ross, stayed for the slides.
Love the talks you guys upload
and here i am turning the traversal difficulty of shadow of the tomb raider to hard, in order to get rid of those visual cues for climable areas. did i die because of misjumps regularly? sure. but i also felt much more accomplished when i reached a tricky spot. so what i am saying is: there is a flip side to affordance.
*there is a flip side to signifiers
Robert Yang:
- in Unity do _this_
- and in Unreal _do that_
- (and if you use Source, you're f#%ked because you have to use lightmaps and compile everytime you want to see changes)
Unless Hammer++ 🎉
Great first half!
Was this in San Francisco? Would like to know the conference's location to citate it on a thesis
Both talks are great, thank you !
Second half is fucking awesome. Boundaries of this medium is expanding thanks to people like Robert.
Awesome talk!
David Shaver has the greatest forehead in the industry
Neat stuff :)
thanks a lot
what a mess with the audio in every GC conference
It's mindblowing that the person who talks about light being political doesn't know that one of his presentation examples is from "Schindler's List".
Woow
AmaZinG'a! I
I like how a single line flew completely past the usual whiny gamer squad, causing their usual shrieking. Nothing seems to trigger gamers more than a single word.
Great talk, for both halves.
Lol. Why would a "Gamer" be on GDC page watching Level design and Lighting tips. Are you so full of yourself that everyone else other than yourself on this pages are not for learning stuff? The dude said something dumb and here you are defending him with your last breath. He says He is not calling out Bethesda and then proceeds to call out Bethesda for their play testers not playing as Black characters enough and that being an example of Institutional Racism. Please enlighten us, how could you interpret that? Are you one of those people who hates everything and anything that Bethesda does and want their games to fail? Because I have seen a bunch of people who want that.
A single line that had NO BUSINESS BEING IN THE PRESENTATION! If he had said Let's have a round of applause for heterosexual sex, there would have been an uproar, and he'd be called a sexist.
Don't be inflammatory please, it's not that. We're all here for the same purpose: to learn how to make games better.
But don't you see the problem here? The second guy is obviously knowledgable in his field and I grabbed some great lighting tips from him. Thus, as a game maker, I'm grateful he wasn't barred from being a developer because of his sexual preferences. At the same time, such comments don't belong in a workshop like this. Would people be equally OK if the first guy said 'Yeah for straight sex?'.
Meh, straight sex is the norm and seen everywhere. As obvious as it should be, some people seem to not realize it would read completely different if someone said "Yeah for straight sex". Also different from "Yeah for sex".
If this guy wants to celebrate his own sexuality publicly as a political statement, and it ends up upsetting so many people, maybe it ends up proving there's a need for it? I for one, found it awkward and silly, but nothing so worth of mention.
He opened with it, and moved on with the topic.
And yes, if people make games that play worse for dark skinned characters, it's perfectly okay to use them as an example, and question them for that. I don't know if it's institutional or subconscious or what, but it does feel like a (subtle/minor) form of racism for sure. And it's also very much on topic.
BTW, some are saying stuff like "irl i can't see my black friends at night lol". Yeah, irl someone throws 15 arrows at you and you're dead, you don't have cross hairs in the middle of your sight, the places to which you want to go don't usually have magic markers, inhabited caves don't usually have light sources strategically placed in every corner... Games deviate from reality all the time to make them better/easier/more fun to play, so point seems to stand.
Algorithms and physical models can hardly be called racist/sexist, but I guess anything goes these days. I think it would be utterly ironic to write, for example, a new PBR shader just to make dark skinned characters stand out. Not to mention there would definitely be people who'd call this racist too, as it would whiten black characters.
The point isn't that this guy's sexuality shouldn't be celebrated. It's just that anyone who isn't in a 'minority' has to tippy toe around issues so as not to offend. Either we are all equal or we aren't.
First 28 minutes are amazing second half some random dude talking about gay sex... what the fuck am i watching
The first talk was fantastic. The second talk started very unprofessional. It is not professional to ask in a conference for your audience to cheer for sex, no matter what type.
I was very impressed with the first talk. Second, yeah, I shut off the video.
I agree. Very cringe. Its certainly not acceptapted by everyone. Especially those of us that follow the Laws of God. Fortunately, the talk about light was interesting and worth watching, I now just wish it was somebody else doing the talk.
Ill be saving the first talk and creating a cheat sheet from it. Lets just say i shut off the video not long after the first talk
Please give us OPTION TO REMOVE OBVIUOS PATHS LIKE WHITE PAINT 😂 I miss the sense of discovery. Shadow of the tomb raider is the best one at this. It offers sll kind of options to customize your experience
Ignoring the 2nd presenter's case on gay and race topics (I'm just going to pass it off as him wanting to express himself), I enjoyed it. There are really clear examples from both presenters and they make the concepts fairly easy to understand.
As for black characters in video games, it's weird to bring in lighting effects in politics. Hell I can't see my black friend clearly at night at times compared to fairer folks and I don't see why video games are an exception. It's just the way it is.
Lots of games do try to get around making black characters definable, like making the skin fairer, light tattoos to bring out dark skin, bright or reflective clothing or accessories, defined facial features with bright eyes and redder lips, white facial hair or colored head hair, etc.
The times have become so mentally diseased that people overreact to non issues, and deny reality on the basis of some groundless made-up, weaponized political buzzword.
Exactly, thank you!! How does he think it works in nature then? If you need 100 lights because someone has dark skin then they are not going to look very natural in the game either...
First half was really good, those tips were ingenious.
But the second half, omg... "Light is political"
Matheus Lacerda you realize dozens of other games manage to light dark skin properly. It’s not political to point out that Bethesda didn’t do the best job, especially since kidders have figured a way to do just what he was talking about with no noticeable performance hit to even low end machines. Bethesda needs to pull their shit together and do better
@@davantejohnson5980 "It’s not political to point out that Bethesda didn’t do the best job," The speaker literally said light is political, emphasized with big, red highlighted text.
I know this is a 2 year old comment but I couldn't resist.
Actually, idiotic brain corrupted people are political. Things have become this bad that reality is taking a back seat to nonsense public domain concepts, and there has to be some kind of latent apologetics with regards to how reality is.
In FA new vegas (the same engine as Skyrim) I have a character with a red handle bar moustache, red hair, is very pale, has a strong jawline, isn't obese and traipses around the desert with no equipped clothing save for a cowboy hat. I don't look act or dress like that in real life, but if I wanted to I could also be whatever I wanted besides that. FA: NV could have outright disallowed players to customize skin tone, or really ANYTHING, but they didn't. Don't hate them for trying. Don't hate Bethesda for trying. Secondly, they've updated their graphics engine since then and it surpasses greatly what it did in 2013 (Skyrim).
Blue Phoenix he used an example from Skyrim, it still looks kinda bad. It took kidders to make Bethesda’s lighting work the way it should (with little to no performance impact. I should know bc I play it both on my gaming pc and my crappy work laptop). Also he wasn’t criticizing Bethesda so much as saying that they can do better. Expect more from your media.
Lots of practically creative tips in here. Really liked it. I wish I had more resources like that especially around lighting.
Could've done without the "lighting darker characters poorly is a form of racism" thing because I think shit like that takes the spotlight off of productive conversation about racism and waters down the word.
It's also just fucking stupid :p
darker colors dont reflect light as much as lighter colors. *who knew?*
@@AkaiKnight Light is racist.
54:08 really? I never ever thought certain races were lit worse than others lol. Why even bring this up....
loved this talk, both halves, and enjoying the whiny boys in the comments
YWNBAW
Cope and seethe
That second talk was almost good but cringed me out
First half was great, but you lost me at "Let's have a round of applause for GAY SEX!" No place for that in a lecture. Also, Institutionalized racism for not lighting a black character as well? Come on man!
sorry that facts upset you i guess
these SJW's man. I don't actually think they do, what they do, for their cause. they just want to make a statement, which is very toxic. I wouldn't listen to these people even if they were rallying my rights.
The only thing that upsets me is people using the word 'fact' for their subjective interpretation of something, as if it was any more than that.
@@mulls9281 They do what they do for their cause. The problem is that they don't realize that the cause is toxic and destructive. It's like throwing a nuclear bomb to a city and saying: "Don't worry everything is going to be alright because it's a warm box of love, just sit back and enjoy. Oh you don't like it, you're a bigot and a whatever-ist, DIE!". And then everything goes to sh*t, them included.
Dunno, but being gay himself makes it pretty funny. It's like I joke about being Asian when solo queing with four other white bois
Gates and valves hahahahahahaha
People in the comments trying to downplay the issue by saying stuff like "physics isn't racist". If you can't make out a black person in *direct sunlight* , you have failed in your lighting design. Your game is broke. And lighting in video games was not even remotely physical until PBR. Poor GI and ambient light, nonlinear textures, incorrect albedos, lack of PBR are all issues that have plagued video games for decades. I don't care if the second presenter offended you. If you can't see the forest here, you don't belong in the industry.
Like, imagine telling your director that you can't light Morgan Freeman's face in the film because physics makes black people invisible LMAO.
Cue the "it's not about lighting, it's about ethics in GDC presentations" responses below.
Downplaying the issue? No, I think you're overblowing the issue and having an indoctrinated swooning fit.