Hi brothers, thanks for talking about this very interesting and relevant topic. Personally my view has changed over the years regarding numbers. I think there’s healthy churches big and small, and unhealthy churches big and small. Just the number itself doesn’t say much about the church at all. There’s so many factors that needs to be considered to evaluate if pastors are faithful and obedient to their calling. We don’t need to wear Saul’s armor. God has given us our own measurements and will judge us accordingly. If God gave us 1 talent, be faithful with the 1 talent, and God will be pleased. Some big churches are awesome. Praise God for them. Some are horrifying, increasing numbers through lies, deception and manipulation. God will be their judge. Overall, I learned that I must be secure in who I am as a pastor and be secure in my calling . But it’s not easy. It takes years in the wilderness to figure this out. By God’s grace we can get through this brothers!
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台灣也有！
我在的教會是小教會,傳道人會給年輕同工壓力,加上傳道人不懂和年輕人相處,導致我帶好友進教會都被嚇跑,讓我也想離開教會！
我反而受傷和壓力很龐大！
我在的教會人數20,30位,大多數老人家居多,但同工不多,也沒有小組,也沒有兒童主日學！
有時候事工導向做得愈久，跟上帝獨處的時間反而就減少了，這就不會是上帝想要的教會。如果你真的相信主耶穌所說的：「凡勞苦擔重擔的人可以到我這裏來，我就使你們得安息。 」那你其實只要把重擔洩給上帝就好了，你的重點是要對得起上帝，而不是要對得起地上掌權的，甚至這地上我們所獲得的薪水，也是上帝給的，上帝必會供應，只要你與上帝同工。
Hi brothers, thanks for talking about this very interesting and relevant topic. Personally my view has changed over the years regarding numbers. I think there’s healthy churches big and small, and unhealthy churches big and small. Just the number itself doesn’t say much about the church at all. There’s so many factors that needs to be considered to evaluate if pastors are faithful and obedient to their calling. We don’t need to wear Saul’s armor. God has given us our own measurements and will judge us accordingly. If God gave us 1 talent, be faithful with the 1 talent, and God will be pleased. Some big churches are awesome. Praise God for them. Some are horrifying, increasing numbers through lies, deception and manipulation. God will be their judge. Overall, I learned that I must be secure in who I am as a pastor and be secure in my calling . But it’s not easy. It takes years in the wilderness to figure this out. By God’s grace we can get through this brothers!
很開心看到牧師討論教會怎樣才是真正的成長 有時成長是內化的 不一定是人眼評斷的。一直很討厭把教會變成直傳銷
牧師們可以聊一聊靈恩派，福音派的主張與區分嗎？支持或反對方言嗎？
可以喔
可以說說你看到什麼？
@@thedavidyu 我歡迎喜歡聖靈也不會反對方言，但我的教會是所謂福音派，牧師不贊同方言禱告，到底可不可以講方言～禱告及敬拜？
謝謝你
这些现象是因为教会在受营销学的影响，国内还是很多教会都以数字为主要的追求对象，呼吁信徒传福音，其实目的是为了人数
問問他們為何離開？ 比點人數重要！
核心OK，才会🈶人来，其实对于会友能感受到不舒服的地方，会对神有不好的影响。我们也会怀疑教会是否让我们信任。恶性循环
其實一個教會的健康也是來自牧者健不健康？
教會看重人數其實是很普遍存在的問題，但是反觀思考，神是看重什麼？
我記得在聖經裡好幾次都提到，神得勝不是看人數，神出手必然得勝。
拜假先知巴力的人看似龐大，但神也預留祂自己的人，神從未在意數字，為何人要在意？
現今很多教會的牧者把教會當作自己的企業經營，老實說，在教會裡所有服事的同工是不支薪，只有牧師幹事其他辦公同工有薪水, 但卻是要承受牧者給予的人數壓力是合理的嗎？
神到底要我們看重的是什麼？
其實小偉牧師講的很好，重點在於我們的生命，一個教會的領導者生命健康，自然也帶出健康的影響力，看重會友的生命成長，會友有健康的生命，自然而然也帶出影響力，難道害怕不會帶人進來嗎？
牧者給予的壓力只能處理表面的問題，並非是真正核心改善，因此教會出現問題我認為最大的因素是牧者是以什麼心態來看教會。
宗教形式教会太多。
日本也一樣，神戶改革宗長老會。最有問題的居然是長老，什麼事都先斬後奏！完全不尊重牧師及牧師。