I was about to comment/propose what you demonstrated at the end of the video. Cable needs to go with the vehicle, not the electrical post in the street.
I have a dream. If I won the lottery, I'd make boutique charging "malls" kinda thing. Take a 3 story parking garage. Load it with Various EV chargers (L1 with airport shuttle), L2 for cheap, various L3, invite food trucks every day, maybe a 24 hour taco truck. Coffee shop, Dog parklet, Maybe a place to show movies on a projector and can tune into it by radio or something like a drive-in theater.... Sounds awesome.
As I watch this---we just got a demand alert here in Los Angeles ---the DC chargers across the street from my work are offline again due the heat ( 6-24-2024 high heat ).
Is that because the grid just can’t handle the extra load? I don’t think many people understand how much power those things take! Not practical if everyone or even 1/3 of people need to use them daily.
@@chargeeverywhere Edison started dumping non-essential loads. But you are right on demand charges--today my shop ( office) meter went to an ungodly tier! Here in California, the Grid managers have to buy power on the spot market---and today when the Country is in a massive heat wave it's Nuclear as no wind is blowing here in SoCal! I have a non DC PHEV so its AC for me!
It is. The issue tends to be cost for utilization. If the city isn’t seeing much utilization within a short timeframe I’m not sure they will jump at adding more. This can be improved by a very good community study though.
Looks like you've adopted a european model for public charging. A two sided J1772 cord. Is the EVSE embedded in the pole or underground? How does billing work? Is power provided from the pole or trenched from the homeowner? It's a novel solution that can work in many cities, I'll follow your channel to keep up on the progress. Great work!
You've seen correctly, and thank you for the thoughtful comment - it deserves a detailed answer! The double-ended J1772 is being changed with the North American adoption of the Tesla plug. We are powering off buildings, but if cities/utilities want to trench, that is an option. We've experimented with both in-pole and in-building EVSE and have settled on an in-building EVSE and remote socket. This solves several technical and safety issues we've encountered. I wanted in-pole for a long time, and the pole you see in the video is still that way, but ultimately, it was best to switch to in-building. As for billing, power is metered in the EVSE and will be linked to the user, with the EVSE owner reimbursed. I'll explain more in coming videos.
Humans are pretty darn adaptive, if the grid needs more support, we will figure it out. Heck, everybody’s complaining that robots will take over our jobs, creating a more robust electrical grid is a great job for humans at the moment.
Untethered EVSEs (AKA BYOC), as common in Europe and finally authorized in the US by J3400 -- if and when it's ratified -- are surely part of the solution... and it looks like that's what you're doing here. Compact, unobtrusive, and hopefully vandal-resistant. Some neighboorhoods in the US already have posts near the street that would make suitable hosts: hitching posts. This is an idea I've been kicking around for years, but never pursued...
Yes, I’ve been glad to see the industry moving in that direction. 3 years ago when I started down this path, I realized BYOC was the way to go, but virtually no one in North America even considered it back then. I’m not sold on a Type 2 socket for the US though.
I like Orange Charger solution that utilizes mesh networking or simple Bluetooth connection to activate plug, avoiding the often problematic data collection cost and network errors that often happens with charging solutions.
I'm a big fan of what Orange is doing! Nicolas and his team really understand that reliable access to charging everywhere - even low current charging - is what is really needed.
@@aperitifs wireless chargers at your local store parking lots, on street parking, at fast food drive-throughs. Even special toll road lanes with wireless charging.
There isn't really a limitation on the charger side, and our current components are rated at 277v. I can see this becoming a thing over the coming decade or so, but it will be dependent on the onboard chargers being able to accept it. Probably will be more common in the commercial space.
@@chargeeverywheredefinitely something to look for in the future as cars move to NACS and are spec’d for 277 V incoming. However, there will need to be some kind of care given to those legacy cars already on the road now and maybe even the next few years that with adapters could physically plug in to future 277 V EVSE but which wouldn’t be able to handle it electrically speaking.
Is it j3400 station side with BYOC and the idea is you get permitted a pedestal on the side of the road and bring your own cable? Maybe the cable even has a tag in it so it bills the right person.
Yes. I like your line of thinking! NACS station-side BYOC as it should be in North America. This is obviously a custom solution, as the socket equipment didn't exist. Also, we have moved away from only a pedestal mount to equipment that can be deployed on just about any structure.
In my Dutch town, I have 2 22KW public chargers at 200 yards from my home. If I will buy an EV, I will have to use them. They cost 50% per Kw more than normal house electricity. I hope they will be available when I need them, because 2 chargers for 1000 homes is I think not enough. Thyere are more chargers in town, but not within walking distance from my home.
If you had an EV and you had a120v outlet anywhere near where you park then you could charge off of that most of the time and use fast chargers when needed.Much more simple that non EV people have false fears about
I’ve heard you Dutch have just about the highest charger densities in the world. 2 for 1000 homes doesn’t seem like enough though. Anything lower powered nearby?
Agreed. Many of the EV owners waiting in line at fast chargers live locally and don’t really need fast charging or it’s high cost. They do need Level 2 charging where they park over night or at work. Unfortunately we tend to think faster is better and end up paying a lot more for it.
@@chargeeverywhereI have a phev with only a 20kwh battery and 120 volt is too slow for even my small battery overnight. So I had a 240-volt outlet installed on the outside wall of my garage and I bought a portable charger and I plug and unplug whenever I need it which kind of looks like what you were doing at the end. If your company is installing 240 volt outlets and somehow being able to bill the electricity for it I think that's great but I don't think 120 is fast enough. In either case I really like the way you highlighted the problems and I wish you every success.
I was about to comment/propose what you demonstrated at the end of the video. Cable needs to go with the vehicle, not the electrical post in the street.
I have a dream. If I won the lottery, I'd make boutique charging "malls" kinda thing. Take a 3 story parking garage. Load it with Various EV chargers (L1 with airport shuttle), L2 for cheap, various L3, invite food trucks every day, maybe a 24 hour taco truck. Coffee shop, Dog parklet, Maybe a place to show movies on a projector and can tune into it by radio or something like a drive-in theater.... Sounds awesome.
Sounds fun 👍🏼
I'm interested in 240v 20 amp service for the cheap wiring and installation costs. Bringing your own cord also seems sensible.
That is a very interesting sweet spot that not many folks think of.
Can't wait to find out what you've been building!
Soon…
Look at all those lengthy copper cables just waiting to be cut and stolen for "recycling".
As I watch this---we just got a demand alert here in Los Angeles ---the DC chargers across the street from my work are offline again due the heat ( 6-24-2024 high heat ).
Is that because the grid just can’t handle the extra load? I don’t think many people understand how much power those things take! Not practical if everyone or even 1/3 of people need to use them daily.
@@chargeeverywhere Edison started dumping non-essential loads. But you are right on demand charges--today my shop ( office) meter went to an ungodly tier! Here in California, the Grid managers have to buy power on the spot market---and today when the Country is in a massive heat wave it's Nuclear as no wind is blowing here in SoCal! I have a non DC PHEV so its AC for me!
Friend lives in a condo. Spent 90 minutes looking for a charger. They were damaged or offline.
Do they have a 120v outlet nearby?
I second the 120v outlet approach. It works for nearly everyone most of the time. Sure beats a 90 min. wait.
A supercharger is not the solution to every charging problem.
Couldn’t agree more.
4:40 its as good place as any. Its a chicken and egg problem. EV chargers will beget EVs
It is. The issue tends to be cost for utilization. If the city isn’t seeing much utilization within a short timeframe I’m not sure they will jump at adding more. This can be improved by a very good community study though.
Here we go Coul St!🔋
Woman bemoaning installation of EV charger next to her house is great example of the North American NIMBY.
Looks like you've adopted a european model for public charging. A two sided J1772 cord. Is the EVSE embedded in the pole or underground? How does billing work? Is power provided from the pole or trenched from the homeowner? It's a novel solution that can work in many cities, I'll follow your channel to keep up on the progress. Great work!
You've seen correctly, and thank you for the thoughtful comment - it deserves a detailed answer! The double-ended J1772 is being changed with the North American adoption of the Tesla plug. We are powering off buildings, but if cities/utilities want to trench, that is an option. We've experimented with both in-pole and in-building EVSE and have settled on an in-building EVSE and remote socket. This solves several technical and safety issues we've encountered. I wanted in-pole for a long time, and the pole you see in the video is still that way, but ultimately, it was best to switch to in-building. As for billing, power is metered in the EVSE and will be linked to the user, with the EVSE owner reimbursed. I'll explain more in coming videos.
Humans are pretty darn adaptive, if the grid needs more support, we will figure it out. Heck, everybody’s complaining that robots will take over our jobs, creating a more robust electrical grid is a great job for humans at the moment.
I agree. We’ve solved bigger issues before.
Untethered EVSEs (AKA BYOC), as common in Europe and finally authorized in the US by J3400 -- if and when it's ratified -- are surely part of the solution... and it looks like that's what you're doing here. Compact, unobtrusive, and hopefully vandal-resistant.
Some neighboorhoods in the US already have posts near the street that would make suitable hosts: hitching posts. This is an idea I've been kicking around for years, but never pursued...
Yes, I’ve been glad to see the industry moving in that direction. 3 years ago when I started down this path, I realized BYOC was the way to go, but virtually no one in North America even considered it back then. I’m not sold on a Type 2 socket for the US though.
I still think these dc faster chargers are scams. They really only cost $1000 the rest is fraud.
Great, original coverage! Thanks for the video!
Thanks Steve! Glad you liked it.
Babe, wake up, Josh is making videos again.
Glad to be back 😊
I'm very interested to follow what you are doing. 👍
Bring your own cable just like we do in Europe
I like Orange Charger solution that utilizes mesh networking or simple Bluetooth connection to activate plug, avoiding the often problematic data collection cost and network errors that often happens with charging solutions.
I'm a big fan of what Orange is doing! Nicolas and his team really understand that reliable access to charging everywhere - even low current charging - is what is really needed.
The next innovation will be wireless charging.
Perhaps. There are plenty of folks working on it.
Wireless charger at traffic lights ...
@@aperitifs wireless chargers at your local store parking lots, on street parking, at fast food drive-throughs. Even special toll road lanes with wireless charging.
Any 277v support?
There isn't really a limitation on the charger side, and our current components are rated at 277v. I can see this becoming a thing over the coming decade or so, but it will be dependent on the onboard chargers being able to accept it. Probably will be more common in the commercial space.
@@chargeeverywheredefinitely something to look for in the future as cars move to NACS and are spec’d for 277 V incoming. However, there will need to be some kind of care given to those legacy cars already on the road now and maybe even the next few years that with adapters could physically plug in to future 277 V EVSE but which wouldn’t be able to handle it electrically speaking.
Is it j3400 station side with BYOC and the idea is you get permitted a pedestal on the side of the road and bring your own cable? Maybe the cable even has a tag in it so it bills the right person.
Yes. I like your line of thinking! NACS station-side BYOC as it should be in North America. This is obviously a custom solution, as the socket equipment didn't exist. Also, we have moved away from only a pedestal mount to equipment that can be deployed on just about any structure.
In my Dutch town, I have 2 22KW public chargers at 200 yards from my home. If I will buy an EV, I will have to use them. They cost 50% per Kw more than normal house electricity. I hope they will be available when I need them, because 2 chargers for 1000 homes is I think not enough. Thyere are more chargers in town, but not within walking distance from my home.
If you had an EV and you had a120v outlet anywhere near where you park then you could charge off of that most of the time and use fast chargers when needed.Much more simple that non EV people have false fears about
I’ve heard you Dutch have just about the highest charger densities in the world. 2 for 1000 homes doesn’t seem like enough though. Anything lower powered nearby?
You can request more chargers at your city council.
Agreed. Many of the EV owners waiting in line at fast chargers live locally and don’t really need fast charging or it’s high cost. They do need Level 2 charging where they park over night or at work. Unfortunately we tend to think faster is better and end up paying a lot more for it.
Couldn’t agree more. Super slow, like 120v slow, is better than DCFC for most people - if only everyone had access to AC charging.
@@chargeeverywhereI have a phev with only a 20kwh battery and 120 volt is too slow for even my small battery overnight. So I had a 240-volt outlet installed on the outside wall of my garage and I bought a portable charger and I plug and unplug whenever I need it which kind of looks like what you were doing at the end. If your company is installing 240 volt outlets and somehow being able to bill the electricity for it I think that's great but I don't think 120 is fast enough. In either case I really like the way you highlighted the problems and I wish you every success.
It is a good thing that people haven't gone crazy about EVs, the grid isn't ready.
The grid wasn’t ready for air conditioning when was first being adopted. The “grid” expanded five fold in twenty years (1950 to 1970) in response.
This is the way.