I am extremely fortunate that when I was 13 a Jupiter 8 went up for sale in my area which blew my mind cause I lived in a small town. I just wanted to go play it, no intentions of buying it. When my dad saw the look on my face when I played it he went off into the other room with the seller. I'm now 55 and writing this 2 ft away from that Jupiter 8, I play it all the time. Paid $3750 Canadian in 1981 and it came with a Tranor 8 channel powered mixer and a home made hard case. I became an addict and have been in synth heaven ever since.
I LOVE your dad for this! I had always wanted a Jupiter-8 as for me it was *the* Holy Grail of synths. My first was a Juno-106 when I was 15 and then a year later I settled for a Jupiter-6 because I had never seen an 8 except in music videos and never saw one listed for sale. I figured it was almost as good, but in my mind it would never be good enough. Finally, as an adult at age 38, I purchased on on eBay for about $3800 US dollars. The day it finally arrived I almost passed out once I got a look at it. I still have it at 52 and have no plans to ever sell.
For context, back in 1981 you could buy a detached one-garage house just on the edge of Toronto for $70,000 so that's literally a house downpayment your dad put down. My hat's off to him.
@jeffreypoirier7786 - The Jupiter 8 is in its own class and it’s funny the amount of stories inc yours and mine where we took an age to get one but were ultimately so blown away with it - once purchased! Thanks for watching!
In 1987 when I was in high school I just missed a Yamaha CS-80 that was being sold for $200.00. Yes, that is two hundred dollars. Really regret that one.
@@AndyWhitmore - The guy was selling all his old gear so he could "modernize". IIRC he wanted a DX-7 and a Mirage. He had already sold a Mellotron M400 which he seemed quite happy to be rid of. I was there for the CS-80 but was minutes too late (not sure how I would have got it in my Subaru anyway) but I did pick up a Minimoog for the same $200.00 - which I still have. The guy was also selling a Yamaha SK-50d which seemed cool but I didn't know anything about them and didn't have enough cash anyway. The late-80's and early-mid 90's were the best time to pick up what we now call "vintage gear" as back then it was just old, obsolete, unreliable and unwanted. You could buy that stuff for next to nothing. Anyone who bought a "classic synth" in the last few years when the market was stupid, thinking they were going to make a killing probably also invested heavily in bitcoin.
@@MFitz12 Yes - I agree re the late 80s (after the DX7 came out) & 90s - people couldn't wait to get rid of their analog gear - & yes - I think the analog market peaked 2022 & has since dropped. It will recover - but slowly
Didn't mention buyer's remorse once. Like many comments below, it's incongruous to declare profit/loss on items you have not sold. Perhaps the video title should be "Analog Synths - My Valuation" but where's the click bait in that.
The title is a summary - & I am quite shocked at the losses on the Jup 8 & CS80 - however - your comment about the P&L is correct - its more about speculation - as you point out - thanks for watching - Please check out some of the other videos with less spectacular titles & less views!!
@asynchronicity I'm sorry you didnt enjoy the video - this video is completly different to the usual videos I do which have many demos & much less talking - I hope you have a look at the channel & check out some of the other video!
I can't think of a single synth (or any other gear) that I ever bought as an investment. But then again I've never sold or traded anything away either. I just see them as tools. Each does it's own special thing.
Wow...what a collection! Happy to have owned a 6 & 8 back in the day. My boutique JP-08 will have to suffice, as $25k for a vintage poly is just not in the cards for me. My vintage now is an MKS-50 and Matrix 6R.
This is absolutely inaccurate, you haven’t made anything until you’ve sold it, there are Jupiter 8’s selling for £17k and been listed for over 2 years and still no one is buying them, the crazy synth market price days are over..:
i completely see where you are coming from & I went to the Jupiter 8 price sold on Reverb - whilst you may be aware of a Jup8 not sold for 17k - what condition is it in? There are tracked sold prices 22k, 19k & 20k in the last 6 months - so I took a low average of 20K.
Profit/loss is only a part of buyer's remorse. If you enjoy a synth for years, but it lost you money when you sold it, is it really that bad? Plus, if you still have them the loss is only virtual. The price might go up again and you might ending up with a big win after all.
Well, I completely agree with that - especially as I have had a few people come back to me with updated values of some of the more expensive synths Thanks for watching
Eek! I never thought about my gear as an investment. I bought my J8 in 89 for £900. And my prophet five v2 for £540 in 87. I slo have cheap gear like the DX7, monopoly and Juno 106 which were all about a couple of hundred quid. I love em all. 👍🏼
Firstly: Profit only establishes itself as final when you actually cash it in. Until that time it’s only non-confirmed theoretical potential. The word speculation has more the one meaning. Secondly: where is the music in all of this?
@marcbrasse747 - Thanks for watching & apologies there is no music! In fact this is one of the very few videos I have made with no music - please check the rest of the channel - nearly all my content & certainly my recent content is full of music - re the profit comment - you are correct - speculation is much more accurate! Thanks for watching!!
Cheers for the vid. One thing you have to account for however: yes there was a massive bump of prices during 2022 and that seems to have calmed down, so to me the last two years have been a correction for an anomaly. Prices will keep on going up with inflation and for some of the rarest pieces like the CS-80 they will go up and steady above it. For predicting vintage synth market behaviour you can check how vintage guitar market behaves also. Certainly some of the most coveted pieces will be certainly coveted for a long time if not forever. Yes the younger people won't show any interest today (as much as we didn't pay much attention to old analogs in the 80s and 90s) but some day some of them will be able to afford one of these pieces too, as long as these instruments remain in the collective minds. To me, reissues and plugins of classics ensure that iconic placement is not lost. As for me, I've been one of the lucky ones. I also live in Spain, own a JP4 (restored and retrofitted by me), CS-50 (awaiting midi install) and CS-80 (needs complete refurbishment) and a great little collection of cherished instruments for which I won't reveal prices in case anyone gets offended ;) Best regards!
Great feedback thanks - Yes - I look on analog synths almost as a separate instrument - like a violin or guitar - they were built for 30 years then never again - so there is always going to be a short supply if you look at them as a complete instrument - & if you do look at them that way - there value has to continue to go up. Violins are pretty old now but everyone knows them! My reasons to buy them are not speculative but just so that I do own the synths I want before they become unattainable. The synths you mention are great - I'm easily contractable on email if you google me - it'd be good to hook up for a coffee some time!
Absolutely - as I said in the video - I have no intentions of ever selling them as the only reason I have them is because I enjoy them- thanks for watching and leaving a comment - keep well
Thanks for your feedback - I did a fair amount of research before making this video & was careful not to inflate or deflate the prices - there is an Xpander for sale - today - on Reverb for $6,950 - admittedly nearly 1.9k more than my $5055 (£4k) estimate - but the Reverb sold prices vary from $4k to $8k which is how i came to my figure. - I hope that helps!
Vintage synth prices have been stupid for a while now. I'm guessing it's mostly old collectors who will die off in the next 5-10 years and then things will get back to more sane territory.
@@AndyWhitmore Young people don't care about vintage synths at all they are happy with plugins which is why the prices will likely fall. It will just be people like me turning 45 collecting all the polymoogs and rounding up the korg sigmas.
@@Bata9999 I happen to agree with you - I employ young engineers - 20 to 35 & out of 15 engineers in the last 15 years - only one of them ever gets out my analog synths & uses them. Even I build a track with soft synths & over lay the analog once the track is happening! The latest Logic Rhodes is amazing!
Yes, I was offered a Jupiter 8 with MIDI in 1992 for $800. And I turned it down! Hahahaha.....I still facepalm myself when I think about that. But I was saving for my Oberheim Xpander I bought later that same year, I paid $1,700 for that, still have it.
Well, I'm not a colector, don't care for old synths and couldn't be bothered to hang on to something just to resell it for profit. Usually I sell my gear to help fund for a newer better version (has to have more of everything my current gear lacks). When I see the ridiculous prices old busted gear go on for I can't help but laugh. There's always a sucker.
@@kierenmoore3236 i can't repeat that - its in the past & I have moved on - to be fair - they did another job at the same time & charged £650 for a £250 job - when I complained - they told me not to pay if I wasn't happy - so in balance - i lost about £750 based on the price of how much I paid for the replacement Juno 106 (£1k). Junos are going for 2k now so I'm glad I re-purchased!
Unfortunately- ebay and reverb are kiling synth market. They become price benchmarks, role models and authorities.There are plenty of people and shops there that make their living from the synth trade. They have so much of it that they don't have to desperately get rid of it. They are waiting for the naive.Some of them stay there for years. I have about 40 synths and have never bought any on ebay or reverb. I always buy from local websites in different countries. I even managed to buy a new ProphetX cheaper in a stationary store for 2,250 euros. I remember that someone once sold a Neuronium Resonator for 15,000 euros on ebay. I contacted the manufacturer of this synth (jomox) and it turned out that a new Resonator Neuronium could be delivered to me for 5,000 euros.
Thanks for watching - I have been collecting my whole life & knew in the 90s - when everyone was offloading them - that they would eventually become sort after!
I have to respectfully disagree. Based on my experience over the last decade, roughly 90% of people treat their instruments like garbage and then try to sell them after they develop issues. A Prophet VS bought today for 4k might net you a box of parts. Session musicians treat their gear with respect and rarely sell. A majority of these synths are not worth what they were brand new.
£60k for a CS80 Andy. RL Music were advertising one for £40k. I think you've done OK. The analog industry has sadly increased to the point where every keyboard player I know wishes they knew Doc Emmett Brown. The latest synths are being devalued quite easily by Behringer. I have a REV 4 prophet....and I love it. It's stable, unlike the UK government and it packs a punch, unlike...um...Boris Johnson.....Enjoy the Spanish weather. Best place to be this time of year. Lay off the Sangria though ;)
The last 2 CS-80s I know of in excellent condition and serviced actually sold for £51,400 so hang on to the one you have. I had 3 of them about 20 years ago and sold them all during a move and studio readjustment. I have repurchased 2 of them and I will never sell them again! Haha.
@RolandFrasierEPIC Well you have made me a very happy man - I never intended to sell my CS80 but felt I had paid the top price and although I expected to make a profit on them didn’t think that was gonna be for awhile yet so thanks for the message and have a great year - congratulations on your 2 purchases - very impressive!
This man feels like a small man eager for recognition. For sure due to his meaningless personality. Is very sad to see someone this old talking about "how much I did on a keyboard". When in reality is about how much you produce with that instrument. This man reminds me of the conversation of the 11-year-old kids trying to sound important back in school.
So an older bloke with a lot of money decides to invest in synths (of all things) and is disappointed when they don't appreciate in value. Exactly who is the target audience for this quasi-rant and veiled humble brag? When you're finished with your public cry and moan, go ahead and purchase a pile of Arturia Polybrute 12s, shove them in the back of your closet for the next 40 years, and see how they do in 2064. Cheers....
Wow loved your analysis and assessment.
Much appreciated!
I am extremely fortunate that when I was 13 a Jupiter 8 went up for sale in my area which blew my mind cause I lived in a small town. I just wanted to go play it, no intentions of buying it. When my dad saw the look on my face when I played it he went off into the other room with the seller. I'm now 55 and writing this 2 ft away from that Jupiter 8, I play it all the time. Paid $3750 Canadian in 1981 and it came with a Tranor 8 channel powered mixer and a home made hard case. I became an addict and have been in synth heaven ever since.
you are very lucky - always good to get a leg up from your parents when you are starting - thanks for watching!!!
I LOVE your dad for this! I had always wanted a Jupiter-8 as for me it was *the* Holy Grail of synths. My first was a Juno-106 when I was 15 and then a year later I settled for a Jupiter-6 because I had never seen an 8 except in music videos and never saw one listed for sale. I figured it was almost as good, but in my mind it would never be good enough. Finally, as an adult at age 38, I purchased on on eBay for about $3800 US dollars. The day it finally arrived I almost passed out once I got a look at it. I still have it at 52 and have no plans to ever sell.
For context, back in 1981 you could buy a detached one-garage house just on the edge of Toronto for $70,000 so that's literally a house downpayment your dad put down. My hat's off to him.
@jeffreypoirier7786 - The Jupiter 8 is in its own class and it’s funny the amount of stories inc yours and mine where we took an age to get one but were ultimately so blown away with it - once purchased! Thanks for watching!
In 1987 when I was in high school I just missed a Yamaha CS-80 that was being sold for $200.00.
Yes, that is two hundred dollars.
Really regret that one.
I don't know what to say - I mean I never even looked at them as they were not on the radar back then - so like you I missed out too!!!
@@AndyWhitmore - The guy was selling all his old gear so he could "modernize". IIRC he wanted a DX-7 and a Mirage. He had already sold a Mellotron M400 which he seemed quite happy to be rid of. I was there for the CS-80 but was minutes too late (not sure how I would have got it in my Subaru anyway) but I did pick up a Minimoog for the same $200.00 - which I still have.
The guy was also selling a Yamaha SK-50d which seemed cool but I didn't know anything about them and didn't have enough cash anyway.
The late-80's and early-mid 90's were the best time to pick up what we now call "vintage gear" as back then it was just old, obsolete, unreliable and unwanted. You could buy that stuff for next to nothing.
Anyone who bought a "classic synth" in the last few years when the market was stupid, thinking they were going to make a killing probably also invested heavily in bitcoin.
@@MFitz12 Yes - I agree re the late 80s (after the DX7 came out) & 90s - people couldn't wait to get rid of their analog gear - & yes - I think the analog market peaked 2022 & has since dropped. It will recover - but slowly
Didn't mention buyer's remorse once. Like many comments below, it's incongruous to declare profit/loss on items you have not sold. Perhaps the video title should be "Analog Synths - My Valuation" but where's the click bait in that.
Pretty vacuous video 😂
The title is a summary - & I am quite shocked at the losses on the Jup 8 & CS80 - however - your comment about the P&L is correct - its more about speculation - as you point out - thanks for watching - Please check out some of the other videos with less spectacular titles & less views!!
@asynchronicity
I'm sorry you didnt enjoy the video - this video is completly different to the usual videos I do which have many demos & much less talking - I hope you have a look at the channel & check out some of the other video!
I can't think of a single synth (or any other gear) that I ever bought as an investment. But then again I've never sold or traded anything away either. I just see them as tools. Each does it's own special thing.
That's a great perspective to have on gear! It's all about the music you can create with them.
A profit or a loss is only realized once something is sold. Enjoy your synths and keep creating.
Agreed - Well I'm not quite ready to sell yet!!
Wow...what a collection! Happy to have owned a 6 & 8 back in the day. My boutique JP-08 will have to suffice, as $25k for a vintage poly is just not in the cards for me. My vintage now is an MKS-50 and Matrix 6R.
Well said!
This is absolutely inaccurate, you haven’t made anything until you’ve sold it, there are Jupiter 8’s selling for £17k and been listed for over 2 years and still no one is buying them, the crazy synth market price days are over..:
i completely see where you are coming from & I went to the Jupiter 8 price sold on Reverb - whilst you may be aware of a Jup8 not sold for 17k - what condition is it in? There are tracked sold prices 22k, 19k & 20k in the last 6 months - so I took a low average of 20K.
Buyers remorse? I did not hear one word about remorse.
I was suprised that I had last £3000 on the Jup 8 & CS80 - plus holding 2 synths for nearly 30 years & making nothing on it - not a great investment
Profit/loss is only a part of buyer's remorse. If you enjoy a synth for years, but it lost you money when you sold it, is it really that bad?
Plus, if you still have them the loss is only virtual. The price might go up again and you might ending up with a big win after all.
Well, I completely agree with that - especially as I have had a few people come back to me with updated values of some of the more expensive synths
Thanks for watching
Eek! I never thought about my gear as an investment.
I bought my J8 in 89 for £900.
And my prophet five v2 for £540 in 87.
I slo have cheap gear like the DX7, monopoly and Juno 106 which were all about a couple of hundred quid.
I love em all. 👍🏼
Those were the days - like yourself - I never sold the old gear as i always thought they sounded good - you are reaping the benefits now!
Firstly: Profit only establishes itself as final when you actually cash it in. Until that time it’s only non-confirmed theoretical potential. The word speculation has more the one meaning. Secondly: where is the music in all of this?
@marcbrasse747 - Thanks for watching & apologies there is no music! In fact this is one of the very few videos I have made with no music - please check the rest of the channel - nearly all my content & certainly my recent content is full of music - re the profit comment - you are correct - speculation is much more accurate! Thanks for watching!!
Cheers for the vid. One thing you have to account for however: yes there was a massive bump of prices during 2022 and that seems to have calmed down, so to me the last two years have been a correction for an anomaly. Prices will keep on going up with inflation and for some of the rarest pieces like the CS-80 they will go up and steady above it.
For predicting vintage synth market behaviour you can check how vintage guitar market behaves also. Certainly some of the most coveted pieces will be certainly coveted for a long time if not forever. Yes the younger people won't show any interest today (as much as we didn't pay much attention to old analogs in the 80s and 90s) but some day some of them will be able to afford one of these pieces too, as long as these instruments remain in the collective minds. To me, reissues and plugins of classics ensure that iconic placement is not lost.
As for me, I've been one of the lucky ones. I also live in Spain, own a JP4 (restored and retrofitted by me), CS-50 (awaiting midi install) and CS-80 (needs complete refurbishment) and a great little collection of cherished instruments for which I won't reveal prices in case anyone gets offended ;) Best regards!
Great feedback thanks - Yes - I look on analog synths almost as a separate instrument - like a violin or guitar - they were built for 30 years then never again - so there is always going to be a short supply if you look at them as a complete instrument - & if you do look at them that way - there value has to continue to go up. Violins are pretty old now but everyone knows them! My reasons to buy them are not speculative but just so that I do own the synths I want before they become unattainable. The synths you mention are great - I'm easily contractable on email if you google me - it'd be good to hook up for a coffee some time!
That’s the quote of the day” I use it a lot, and I love it” my synth collection could go to $0. Don’t care.
Absolutely - as I said in the video - I have no intentions of ever selling them as the only reason I have them is because I enjoy them- thanks for watching and leaving a comment - keep well
@@AndyWhitmore I’m with you, Andy. Great content.
@@Arthur-hg7ny thanks!
Hmmm... How could that be true when the whole point here is to assign value/profit/loss.
There is more to these synths than a vestment
Looks like it’s summertime there! 😎
its perfect - better than summer 26 degrees! I've been swimming in the sea most days!
Where can you find an Xpander for 4000? They average around $12k now. I would be interested in a working one for $4000k.
Thanks for your feedback - I did a fair amount of research before making this video & was careful not to inflate or deflate the prices - there is an Xpander for sale - today - on Reverb for $6,950 - admittedly nearly 1.9k more than my $5055 (£4k) estimate - but the Reverb sold prices vary from $4k to $8k which is how i came to my figure. - I hope that helps!
The synth trader
Nice video
👍
Thanks for watching! You've a nice channel too - Subbed!
@@AndyWhitmore thanks Andy. 👍
Vintage synth prices have been stupid for a while now. I'm guessing it's mostly old collectors who will die off in the next 5-10 years and then things will get back to more sane territory.
Maybe - but are the youngsters really interested in them?
@@AndyWhitmore Young people don't care about vintage synths at all they are happy with plugins which is why the prices will likely fall. It will just be people like me turning 45 collecting all the polymoogs and rounding up the korg sigmas.
@@Bata9999 I happen to agree with you - I employ young engineers - 20 to 35 & out of 15 engineers in the last 15 years - only one of them ever gets out my analog synths & uses them. Even I build a track with soft synths & over lay the analog once the track is happening! The latest Logic Rhodes is amazing!
Yes, I was offered a Jupiter 8 with MIDI in 1992 for $800. And I turned it down! Hahahaha.....I still facepalm myself when I think about that.
But I was saving for my Oberheim Xpander I bought later that same year, I paid $1,700 for that, still have it.
i paid 1600 for the xpander around 1992 - i wish id bought the jup 8 when they were cheaper!
Well, I'm not a colector, don't care for old synths and couldn't be bothered to hang on to something just to resell it for profit. Usually I sell my gear to help fund for a newer better version (has to have more of everything my current gear lacks). When I see the ridiculous prices old busted gear go on for I can't help but laugh. There's always a sucker.
I’ve been called a few things but that’s a new one! Thanks for watching
@@AndyWhitmore not you personally.
With the B clones hitting every old synth, it’s time to get rid of the ones you can before they become obsolete
Thanks for watching
Hahaha, sure
Sequential Prophet = Sequential Profit
lol - it’s the only profit I’ve seen recently!! Thanks for watching!
An interesting video, I'm glad you're in my country 🇪🇸
We have a place here & spend 3 months a year out here - I love it!
is it not better to invest in benzine and diesel this days?
i think the point is - we are not in it for the money!!!
I wonder if you eat and drink benzine & diezel and if you use them to heat your food 😂
@@digitalduch1111 no - thanks for watching & commenting
@@digitalduch1111 and I wonder if you eat and drink synths
If that SOB had stolen my 106 … … … Wow …
Yes - & I still see his name crop up with excellent reviews - what a farce!
@@AndyWhitmore What store was it?
@@kierenmoore3236 i can't repeat that - its in the past & I have moved on - to be fair - they did another job at the same time & charged £650 for a £250 job - when I complained - they told me not to pay if I wasn't happy - so in balance - i lost about £750 based on the price of how much I paid for the replacement Juno 106 (£1k). Junos are going for 2k now so I'm glad I re-purchased!
Unfortunately- ebay and reverb are kiling synth market. They become price benchmarks, role models and authorities.There are plenty of people and shops there that make their living from the synth trade. They have so much of it that they don't have to desperately get rid of it. They are waiting for the naive.Some of them stay there for years. I have about 40 synths and have never bought any on ebay or reverb. I always buy from local websites in different countries. I even managed to buy a new ProphetX cheaper in a stationary store for 2,250 euros. I remember that someone once sold a Neuronium Resonator for 15,000 euros on ebay. I contacted the manufacturer of this synth (jomox) and it turned out that a new Resonator Neuronium could be delivered to me for 5,000 euros.
I agree - it doesn't pay to be a sheep - i've always done my own thing - like you .No one ever got rich copying everyone else
Why you need so many Synths bro?
Thanks for watching - I have been collecting my whole life & knew in the 90s - when everyone was offloading them - that they would eventually become sort after!
@@AndyWhitmore It seems like Matrix and some knobby mono would do the trick, investing in synths sounds weird.
@@HatredPrime i use them to play live in my Jazz Band & your suggestions don't do the job. these REAL keyboards really inspire me
I have to respectfully disagree. Based on my experience over the last decade, roughly 90% of people treat their instruments like garbage and then try to sell them after they develop issues. A Prophet VS bought today for 4k might net you a box of parts. Session musicians treat their gear with respect and rarely sell. A majority of these synths are not worth what they were brand new.
Thanks for your feedback - you make a good point
Andy spent all his money on overpriced analog synths and is now living in a shed in Spain. 😉
It's important to find a balance between passion and practicality when it comes to investing in gear! Obviously I prioritised the passion!!
£60k for a CS80 Andy. RL Music were advertising one for £40k. I think you've done OK. The analog industry has sadly increased to the point where every keyboard player I know wishes they knew Doc Emmett Brown. The latest synths are being devalued quite easily by Behringer. I have a REV 4 prophet....and I love it. It's stable, unlike the UK government and it packs a punch, unlike...um...Boris Johnson.....Enjoy the Spanish weather. Best place to be this time of year. Lay off the Sangria though ;)
Thanks for the advice & I agree it is difficult to price the rarer euipment! - but happy with your estimate!!!
Thanks for the advice & I agree it is difficult to price the rarer euipment! - but happy with your estimate!!!
The last 2 CS-80s I know of in excellent condition and serviced actually sold for £51,400 so hang on to the one you have. I had 3 of them about 20 years ago and sold them all during a move and studio readjustment. I have repurchased 2 of them and I will never sell them again! Haha.
@RolandFrasierEPIC
Well you have made me a very happy man - I never intended to sell my CS80 but felt I had paid the top price and although I expected to make a profit on them didn’t think that was gonna be for awhile yet so thanks for the message and have a great year - congratulations on your 2 purchases - very impressive!
Maybe I should re-record this video and update the prices LOL
not a very natural presentation, watching you read as you talk is not a good look.
Actually most of that was off pat!
This man feels like a small man eager for recognition. For sure due to his meaningless personality. Is very sad to see someone this old talking about "how much I did on a keyboard". When in reality is about how much you produce with that instrument. This man reminds me of the conversation of the 11-year-old kids trying to sound important back in school.
Silly comment
Thanks for watching!
Appreciate the support!
@markcrowley65
So an older bloke with a lot of money decides to invest in synths (of all things) and is disappointed when they don't appreciate in value. Exactly who is the target audience for this quasi-rant and veiled humble brag? When you're finished with your public cry and moan, go ahead and purchase a pile of Arturia Polybrute 12s, shove them in the back of your closet for the next 40 years, and see how they do in 2064. Cheers....
Thanks for the advice, you did say 40? Just seems a lot of Polybrutes!