3k Disc priest here, literally feels like i have to play every global perfect to time a 22+/24+ Uldaman, it's actually insane how difficult it is. If ppl arn't useing their deffensives at the right time (Golem pack before the spider trash or 3rd boss Bleeds+stomp, Thundering stomp dudes LoS), you're just screwed. Rapture fking sucks, the damage just melts the shields in a instant, lazy attonement ramps = dead group. You have to make absolute the best use of Power word:Shield or ur fucked and get behind. Meanwhile Holy pals have 4 times your CDs on lower cooldowns XD... Play perfect or get flamed by room-temperature IQ DPS's who don't intt/CC/Use deffs and just expect you to carry their zugzug press damage only playstyle. However it feels really rewarding to play when you pull it off.
As a Resto Shaman main who plays every other healer in +16-18 range - literally every spec - the thing that makes me a bit upset is how >modern< Holy Paladin feels. Resto Shaman is stuck somewhere in the 2016/2017 paradigm whereas Holy Paladin feels like a product of 2023 - very modern, very dynamic.
Exactly that. Also a Resto Sham playere here. And the pure high difference between HPal and Resto Sham ist just insane. Oh, group takes high unexpected damage you have to deal with NOW? Well say good bye to 50% of your mana and get a heart attack. Because you didn't setup a CBT for it. Or a pwave. And to set it up now takes too long. Meanwhile HPal....Daybreak, Toll, GG Other Situation: One Player gets high damage and has some nasty dots. Rsham like: Oh fast Earth Shield, CBT for emergency, push those Healing Surges!! Eh and y you can't do anything else for the rest of the group, loose your maintain on Riptides & Healing Rain. ... Meanwhile Hpal: Beacon on him, Flashheal, use you HPower you get from doing that to push a bit more on this Player OR to use it for some AOE Healing OR some Spot healing when someone gets in issue. What I want to say: Hpal is pure reactive. And has in his toolkit a solution for everything. All he does is on a point of reactivity. To things that happen in M+. This ist the PERFECT Condition for M+. Other Healers therefore Must proactively prepare stuff most of the time or maintain it. Disc it's ramps Druid it's hots & Flourish Ramps RSham his CBT and PWave HPriest lowering it's cooldowns correctly so they are ready again when he needs it Monks it's Mists on every Player, his Mana Management and Faeline Positioning HPal meanwhile: Place Conc and Maintain Glimmer on your Party which you do by just playing your default rotation. And don't worry to run out when you must take care of a player. It has a loooong uptime. So just focus on things you like to do: React to mistakes others have done to SAVE them. For me is a Healer someone who SAVES the players. This is THEIR Carry potential. Currently Healers are Designed to be able to let the group survive when no or minor mistakes are happening. But I feel a good Healer should always be capable to compensate a mistake of another player. Which is, on the current state, not possible.
Great way to explain the hpal play style. I also play every healer, or at least I did. I stopped playing priest, monk and Druid as healers and tried picking up tanking, warlock and surv hunter just for some more variety/play styles (I know, wtf is a surv hunter lol). Ultimately, feeling like, as said in the video, like a part of a class, just isn’t as rewarding if you aren’t able to push the number necessary.
I disagree about the complexity or the age of the spec. Playing my Discipline Priest (same for druids) on WotLK Classic make me feel i receive more dopamine everytime i use Flash Heal or Penance compared to the Retail version. So even a simple toolkit can provide a better feeling when the spell you use are impactful.
@@싸넬동지-7성담배 new world is a great example of simplicity and satisfiying gameplay. I play a LS+VG in new world, and i mostly focus on healing, but sometimes I can get the opportunity to charge in with my energy sword and cut shit up, doing mad damage in the process, and it feels so good. managing my mana while maximising uptime on mobs is an absolute blast, but the mechanic itself is so simple. It's all about impact and smoothness. My two cents regarding buffing other healers btw is that its a stupid idea. Mistweaver vivify cleave is the same tool used to hit 500k+ hps in raid as it is to heal standard pulls in a +16. You cant buff one without the other. Holy paladin's toolkit is not capable of doing that because it's specificially not designed for 20 person raiding. It's not a raid healer. It *can* raid heal, and you should bring one for the DR's, but it's not a great raid healer. Ultimately, i think its time to separate m+ and raid healing. The cat is out of the bag, it's time to accept that the content is too different.
Resto druid here. So stressful when spot healing is needed in pugs (+22-24). You do feel exhausted after a couple of keys when your team doesn't use cooldowns it helps out. On top of that some healer affixes really sting extra hard...
I 100% agree with your point. I'm a healer main, and I play generally 3-4 healer characters per season. And I have all but quit healing right now because it's just too stressful and not fun anymore.
I have no interest in playing the other healers right now. Paladin is in such a good place it made the others feel like a burden to play. Reworks are needed to add fun to the stress of healing. Shorter, bursty cooldowns that have synergy would give us options for different situations. Let's say i use a weak aoe hot on a short cd that's not enough for the damage going out, let me have the option to use a second cd that boosts the first aoe cd on a longer cd.
Long time Resto Druid main. Going into mythic Zskarn we didn’t have enough immunes to handle Bombs. So, I was asked to gear my HPal. This started the week before the rework. Once the reworked dropped I went from 385 to 442 in about a week and a half. Dungeons were night and day compared to the hundreds I had run on RDruid up to that point. I was running 21s and 22s and not breaking a sweat (shout out to the power of crafted gear on a new alt!). We killed Zskarn and I went back to my Druid. But the last few weeks have just felt bad. There are plenty of situations where I’m struggling where I just know I wouldn’t be on my HPal. On top of that my main alt is my Mistweaver and to compare THAT in M+ to HPal is so depressing I don’t even want to get into it. HPal is a lot of fun… buff the rest of the healers to that level as well!
I play a resto shaman and druid and mythic plus sucks for us. It's just not fun and it's more stressful and work than it should be for one reason or another. Actually a lot of reasons.
I agree, Paladin is the most fun because it is the only healer at the correct power level for the content. it reminds me how anti-fun having 'healer checks' in M+ has been. because a dps can have do low damage and the key goes on, a healer doesn't heal enough they wipe and someone leaves.
i was shammy healing start of season 2 , but gave up didnt feel fun having to drink mana pots after every pull , thought it was just me , but after watching other content creators , i found out it wasnt just me that was having this problem , i tank now and haivng more fun , might come back to healing but something needs to happen
Ha exactly I was 3 k r shammy at start of season mana before the rashok trinket was a nightmare then the groups keep pulling when your oom so you have to catch up from behind or get blamed
Resto druid here. 15+'s were (are) painful and just not fun. I think you're on the right track - it's not brute hps (though hpal excells there too), we don't have enough in the toolkit.
100% agree with everything you said, absolutely 100%! However, the biggest problem in M+ which always has been and also will be, especially for healers is the dogshit WoW Community. I've played everything in the pug world (Tank, healer, dps) and by far had the worst and best time as a healer. I love healing, the HPal rework no matter how much they nerf it, I'll still play it because its fun. The sheer amount of shit, hate, threats and everything else a healer has to endure in the pug world disgusting imo. They're expected to know everything immediately and deal with everything immediately, I swear most pugs expect healers to know the tactics before the devs have even designed the dungeons. Start of seasons as a healer is 1 of the worst times to play wow! And I know people say, find a guild etc, I have, but pugging probably makes up the vast majority of keys and you don't find many healers, not because they aren't fun to play or they underperform, it's because people play wow to have fun and escape the real world, not be berated, slated and threatened the entire time because people die to 100% avoidable damage. That issue will never get fixed no matter how fun healing becomes.
Yes! I've been a mistweaver main since the end of legion and I absolutely love it because its so much fun to play, I've been healing 21's and up but I've recently swapped to Aug main because I'm tired of watching dps die in one GCD and getting blamed for it in pugs. I've debated swapping Hpal but I figure I'll give healing a break for now since my favourite class/spec always gets shit on and neglected by blizzard.
Absolutely agree, M+ healing is really tiring. During S2, I started with resto shammy, managed to climb to ilvl 442, but every dung around and above 20 is sweaty. Sometimes when I get invited to a party, they are surprised that "resto shaman even exists". Sometimes (aprx. half of the time) not even get invited to +20, cause they look for disc priest or holy pally, and I can understand that halls of infusion, uldaman and neltharus the worst three for rshammy (and the S2 tier set bonus not helping either, one of the worst I've ever seen). For a change and "relax", I started to play with my aug evoker 3 weeks ago (with a shitty 395 gear), now 2 days ago I cleared every +20 dung for portals. The grind was so much friendlier and less stressful than playing with resto shammy (especially on the week of spiteful affix when I can't start to drink until the ghost disappears but everyone hurries me to pull the next group). Regarding to the toolkits, yes, also agree, for example, spirit link totem would require a rework; so much m+ mechanic where the group can't stay in the 10yrd totem range and have to constantly move (like every boss in uldaman except the trogg), making one of my major cooldown useless. Its funny, in previous expansons, we always had to wait for a Tank in pug. Now we have to wait for a healer, cause they don't like to play, because its to stressfull. Blizzard reaction: add mana cost to protection paladin's word of glory. So if the shaman is struggling, prot pala can help more less?!
I came back after quitting in shadowlands. At first i thought it was a great expension. But as i got into the 20-24 mythic+ ranges. You start to see how clueless the devs actually are. They probably dont play the game themselves at this level
I feel you. I had the same disappointment in SL, then first I really loved DF, but more I'm in M+, more I'm disappointed (not to mention solo shuffle has almost a similar stressing problem with healers, you competing with 1 healer and not 3 other person as DPS, also the MMR somehow not working, 5 win 1 loss gives you 10 rating, 1 win 5 loss gives you -70 rating) After this video, I respected my prot pala to holy, to check the difference and did some ~18 M+. O my god, if my remaining mana approached 80%, thenthat was a serious fight. Also, I checked the *major* cooldown differences: Holy Paladin Spell - Minute cooldown Avenging wrath - 2 Daybreak - 1 Divine Toll - 1 Aura mastery - 3 Blessing of Sacrafice - 1 Blessing of Seasons - 0.66666667 Holy prism - 0.33333334 Tyr's Deliverance - 1,5 Resto Shaman Spell - Minute cooldown Healing tide totem- 2.4 Useless Murder Link Totem - 2.9 Ascendance - 3 Mana Tide Totem (with Spiritwalker's Tidal Totem talent) - 2.9 Ancestral Guidance - 2 Nature's swiftness - 1 Now, as you mentioned devs actually clueless about higher M+, and I have to agree. 'Cause almost M+ boss mechanics have an inner ~1 minute cooldown. So as it seems based on the cooldowns above, the major cooldowns (daybreak, divine toll, BoS) are always up for the next boss mechanic, while resto shamy...has to pray that the DPS finish within 3 round. (Not to mention the mana difference). This does not seem fair for other healers. Ofc, rshammy chainheal and useless healing rain (at least in M+ where everyone is constantly moving) with the more useless healing rain tier setbonus, but it doesnt matter if the cooldowns for paladin are coming back that fast (and rshammy out of mana). I hope blizz answers wont be paladin nerf (to be less fun), but buff other healers (to be less stressful).
agreed, also i still wanted to do some 16+ keys today... saw that we have that afflicted affix and basicly just killed my last motivation to do those runs this week
I think it's important to point out that this is not just about people falling into another meta; this is isn't just a perception issue, it's actually an issue where one healer is clearly the best/most viable for the content. If this was an argument about whether to take an hpal or an rsham because one can out dps the other that would just be normal metaslave crap.
Totally agree with every point made in this video. I've Mythic raided on Prevoker, Rsham, and Hpal between S1 and S2 and done 20s, 21s, and the occasional 22 on each of them and dabbled in Rdruid up into the 18s/19s. Our core group has a rotating roster of some casuals and some more serious players so we tend to cap out around 21s or 22s but I could feel it coming in S2 and swapped to at the time the more viable Rsham because of the pretty solid rework they did on them. Boy was I wrong though. I thought for sure finally, FINALLY I'll be able to keep up and not live global to global for an entire key praying to RNGesus that it won't feel like trying to fill a bucket of water that has holes in it. Then S2 rolls around and the ST damage profiles in dungeons from one week to the next are OBSCENELY OVERTUNED. Talking pelters just absolutely trucking people despite Blizz claiming that they coded it so targets wouldn't get singled out over and over and over. Lies. So many other areas where the ST incoming damage was just incomprehensibly high and sustained despite well executed kicks, group stuns, and other CC. Then comes the Hpal rework and having been an Hpal main off and on for the better part of 15 years I thought here we go, here's my chance to play Hpal again. And just like Madz said, it felt like THE DREAM. Everything was so good, my agency as a healer finally felt like it was supposed to. There was challenge but not insurmountable often soul crushing moments of watching one global tick away knowing there was nothing in my toolkit whatsoever outside of SL and Rewind that could save people. 15s-20s shouldn't feel like that; it shouldn't feel like nothing outside of a handful of 2-3 minute cooldowns in my entire toolkit ever matter. You've got this massive mostly casual player base who peaks somewhere between 15s to 20s meanwhile Blizz seemed to be tuning gameplay and dungeon design around solely those trying to get to 28s, 29s, and 30s so those 15s through 20s now feel like exercises in futility some weeks on everything but Hpal post-rework. Even with the nerfs to Hpal I won't take any other healer to a 20 anymore, why bother? Why spend SO MUCH more energy and sweat my way through keys when I can just bring my Hpal instead. Blizz needs to fix this before the next xpac or it's going to reach a breaking point for the casual or semi-casual community at large. I'm personally insulated from a lot of the issues with the pug community but I feel really freaking bad for any poor sod trying to plow their way through +20ish pugs right now because holy crap does it look bad out there.
Holy paladin is so much fun to play. I’ve played all dragonflight healers except evoker. Even if hpal drops in power below the other healers, I’ll continue to play it while it remains fun
I completely agree, not sure why everyone is complaining. I play all the healers, my HPal is one of my most under geared but I was pushing relatively higher keys with it. But its not fun, its too easy. Easy is not fun.
The season has already been buried. People have reached those record breaking key levels with the exodia comp, it's done now, the nerfs came too little, too late. There's a massive part of the community that I think sees m+ as like a climb to the top of a great mountain. Problem is that choosing your class now feels like you're playing slot machines at a casino because of how blizz buff and nerf classes. That's a real problem for people who don't have the time to invest in multiple alts. So when blizzard break hpally and fire mage, then release augvoker, now all those people who have invested so much time into climbing that mountain are watching other players who won at the slot machine just teleport straight to the top. I personally found it deeply frustrating to the point that I've walked away from the game, as a resto shaman... Think about those who chose mistweaver for m+... The fact that mistweaver can exist in it's current state at the same time as hpally did prenerfs is just straight up professional negligence. The expansion is good, yes, but what good is it if you can't play it on the class you want, or if you have to play it with 1 specific class if you want to perform at high levels?
I say this as a multi-season .1% healer, you are absolutely correct, if I didn't have the time to gear several classes, I would have been gimped several times already, its frustrating, but at least the current crafting gear catchup for alts is the best it has been for alts in a long time in my opinion.
I play mistweaver and I feel it's VERY lacking in higher keys. Blizzards reaction to the current situation: let's remove some mana regen talents and add a channeled mana tea to MW monks TROLOLO. I swear they are high on some bad drugs.
@@maxmilian3229 I don't know why you're arguing semantics but that literally also means a problem with the exodia comp, because the other classes aren't up to that standard and it demoralizes players.
Entirely agree. Switched from RDruid, played for past expansions to Hpally and asked myself why I didnt do it before. Spot healing on demand is absolutely needed for PUGs. Also, theres too much movment needed of groups pull many groups - needed to push 20s. I pity healers that need to ti cast.
I'm a Healer main myself. Dragonflight feels much harder to heal. I'm literally struggling to hit Keystone Master currently in Season 2. I'm mainly playing Restoration Druid / Restoration Shaman. I do not mind healing checks. They are fun. But I feel like every healer I play feels lacking somewhere. I PUG all my keys. I started playing halfway BFA and I don't have a lot of friends that play Mythic+. There are runs where I simply struggle to keep my group alive and I feel like I can't do anything to cover for the problems/mistakes that are happening. In Shadowlands I could very easily and comfortably pug my way to KSM, it was just a matter of pushing myself a little but I feel that, with the same healing experience, i'm running into a wall at 13/14s. It feels harder to heal. It feels like there's so MUCH MORE groupwide damage coming in that some healer specs just struggle with. As a newer player I dont know how valid my opinion is on things, I always feel like I'm the new kid on the block still learning the game and I shouldn't be complaining but at the same time I feel like the experience of a newer player might actually be important here. tl;dr: Healing feels harder. +15s in DF don't feel like the +15s in Shadowlands. I find myself playing less Mythic+ in Dragonflight than what I did back in Shadowlands. In Shadowlands I'd be running keys constantly when I played, now I often find myself second-guessing if I want to deal with healing a M+ dungeon and sometimes just end up jumping on my Warlock or Mage (who aren't even well geared) and end up doing the exact same key levels as my healers that are at least 20 ilvls higher.
Sometimes it's easier to heal 20's than it is 13/14's as the players are garbage at that keystone level. Literally never use kicks/stuns/defensives and stand in frontals/cleaves. So yeah in the current healing paradigm we CAN'T always heal mistakes, which we used to be able to do but they absolute fucked us this expansion by making the spikes in damage SO high when they did not need to be.
You got it spot on, I hate playing anything but holy pally when it comes to healing keys. Raids its a different story. I feel I'm missing something on shaman, or priest when I'm running keys. Its not fun, and so many more oh shit moments. I think even nerfed Holy Pally is just to fun, way easier and much more enjoyable to play in keys.
I fully endorse this video, 100%. I play all healer specs and I PUG all my Keys, I do 16-18 keys and the Holy Paly pre nerf was amazing, you got to deal damage with worry abt PUGS not knowing simple mechanics because you could heal to 80% so fast. It made life so much easier, and it felt fulfilling to be that versatile. Now, I have gotten carpel tunnel syndrome from pressing buttons on my keyboard mouse so much due to PUGS taking avoidable damage. I understand that not everyone will be able to cope with these fast pace dungeons especially when you want to time the key, but blizzard needs to empower (BUFFF) the healers more so that we don't feel deterred to heal, cuz i LOVE healing.
As a main monk healer who also loves to have a bunch of alt healers. Holy paladin felt VERY comfortable to play because of the plenty of usefull cds and I hoped that it should be the same for all healers. Also its very sad that with all nerfs happening for M+, those who suffer the most are the ones who just do raiding content. I hope blizzard takes action for the good of everyone
I kind of wonder if this patch single handedly ruined M+ for a whole expansion. The mass healer exodus making pugs nearly impossible and then Aug and the God comp making it even hard trying to run keys. I actually wonder if this actually led to a lot of players leaving.
Hpala has definitely been very fun, not because he is overpowered with healing ,but that it has so many different tools and spells to press and they feel significant, feels like you REALLY are the engineer that keeps this tank going.
I understand your point of view and agree to a certain extent. Though I think the main reason it feels fun is because it's op, otherwise you would just say it's bloated and has a lot of things going on that don't actually do anything. Therefore the fun comes from the fact that every ability heals so much that you feel you are free to choose the tools for any situation. Imagine if something like essence font ACTUALLY healed instead of doing almost nothing, monks would have one more tool and feel like the spec is more fun. What do you think?
@@lukehawkins7587100% agree. It‘s fun because it‘s OP. I go into a higher key knowing that, if DPS and Tanks do their own job properly, i won‘t have to finish the key all tensed up and burnt out because the healing was super stressful. I can go in and do DPS, can do healing extremely effectively AND efficiently. I don‘t have to drink once in a dungeon.. it all goes smooth.
Hmmm, I definitely see your point. But I don't think it's that Holy Pally is OP with it's amount of healing for each button, I just think that there's a button for each situation and you can create combos to bring group health to full, without a huge setup. I have a 436 Mistweaver (and 438 holy pally), I have easily hit 80-140k hps on my mistweaver and have insanely great thoroughput, but at what cost? Terrible mana management? Terrible mastery that we can't really take advantage of because Essence font cost so much mana and does nothing? Have to spread renewing mist that doesn't last very long, extend your hots with sunrise kicks, and spam vivify for cleave? Our biggest instant heals are Revival on a 2-3 min CD and Sheiluns Gift with a 40-80 sec charge time? We have our 1-3min Celestial but that requires ramp up to take full advantage. These are all draw backs, but if played right I can easily pump out insane amount of heals. But you look at Holy Pally, who has a complete toolkit that has major short CD's, doesn't require huge ramps to pump out big heals, have much better spot healing. Even after all the nerfs to Holy pally, it still feels better to play than any other healer because you feel like you're prepared for any situtation, you don't have to sweat about ramp ups, about mana, spot healing, thoroughput healing, etc. It's as Madskills said, Holy pally feels like a product of 2023 for healers. It's not that it's doing gross amount of healing, it's just it has a toolkit that has answer for every damage type pattern. I mainly play my mistweaver more than any of my healers because it's super fun despite it's shortcomings; I just want us to have an awesome rework. Perhaps splitting Fistweaving and Mistweaving into two different specs? @@lukehawkins7587
@@Soulmatic25I have to say I didn't fully consider the paladins spells also having the qualities you mention (being fast, reactive and complementary to the damage pattern mainly). In the end, after considering your comment, I think what really makes paladin successful is the combo of the two points we've made: big throughput that can be distributed very fast, effectively and effortlessly thanks to a great variety of strong spells. Regarding mistweaver Im playing it too (2.7k) juse because I like it but, as i mentioned in another comment, it feels much weaker than others and the whole ramp situation makes it very clunky at times. I would love some kind of rework because there are parts of the kit that currently serve almost no purpose. The mana tea change is a good step in that direction imo.
@@lukehawkins7587 Absolutely agree with you on your points. Just an awesome overall package that holy paladin offers. I'm so happy about the mana tea rework, tested it in ptr and it feels very nice, but a bandaid to the problem for sure. The ramp can Def feel clunky :(, Definitely hoping for a rework!! And a rework for many of the other healers too!! I feel like it's coming our way, I'm sure it's a big undertaking.
Yeah 100% agree with this. It was like when Resto Shaman was top and people were calling for Rshaman damage nerfs, and its like bro we don't even do 40% of a dps damage, EVERY other healer needed dps buffs up to this level. Then you look to Rshaman in raids and we have been ignored from Beta until we finally got buffed to a decent state for 2 weeks then they nerfed us down to last/second last place.....then they nerfed AG because of ele and enhance so we went straight down to last place and remained there even after a 3% and 5% buff. Like we were better before they started "changing" us, at least we had Wellspring. Like literally every Shaman complained about the nerf and they forced it through and all we have been asking for since is for it to return. But do they listen? No. We'll just let Hpala be top healer in m+ and raid by over 40% in terms of hps for over a month....
As a main healer, I do feel like we should have a buff to other healers. in my opinion, even if all healers are stronger, and it bring this power to raid we'll just run with less healers in raid, and it will be fine. let's just have fun everywhere!
@@akariaax6666 it's not about a swap, but bringing less healer in the group for all the raid. instead of runnin 2/4/14 we would be running 2/2/14 and at least 2 support classes (with more classes than augvoker) let's just redesign what a raid comp is.
I disagree about the complexity or the age of the spec. Playing my Discipline Priest (same for druids) on WotLK Classic make me feel i receive more dopamine everytime i use Flash Heal or Penance compared to the Retail version. So even a simple toolkit can provide a better feeling when the spell you use are impactful.
I think the mechanism that makes Holy Paladin completely different (arguably better) than all the other healers is that they have two resources: Holy Power & Mana. Their talents across their general paladin & holy trees generate or proc holy power regen or mana regen. I play every spec of healer in M+, so I noted that all my other healers just rely on mana. The advantage that Holy Paladin has of two resources (Holy Power/Mana) in comparison to literally every other healer is sincerely overlooked. Even on my resto shaman whom is my most mana efficient healer, for very hard pulls, I have to budget my mana or drink afterwards. It's like my Holy Paladin & all my others healers are playing a different game with different rules. Notably, the Holy Paladin having a wealth of resources that they only get, essentially Holy Paladin being able to pull from two energy resources makes them a long lasting battery.
I just started healing higher than 8 keys this season and im loving it a LOT more than raid. Raid just frustrates me a lot but m+ its just better for me though there are times i get stressed. Im almost 2500, and so close to timing my first 20 not too long ago. Holy priest though i hope theres a postivie rework to disc soon!
I'm enjoying healing on Rdruid, Mistweaver and Hpally. The Hpally difference for me is being able to bubble and ignore mechanics to heal; Other than that, they don't feel quite as out of line after the nerfs. Buffing all other healers has the possibility of unbalancing the heck out of raid healing (I see people complaining about resto shammy but i've been dummied by resto shamans doing 150khps on Echo and sark heroic while i'm doing 120-140khps at 441. I don't know what the answer is for the unbalance. Rdruid feels fine for m+ to me with tree of life, ironbark and just having kept your hots rolling. Mistweaver feels a little slower to react which is unfortunate and you really only have the 3 cd's instead of the 5 pally has. Personally i don't feel like resto druids should be in the list of what feels bad and the fix for mistweaver would be to take the beam spell off gcd, simple as that imo.
I mean you can look at the statistics page for healers in Mythic, Rshaman even after getting an 8% buff is still in last place. Not only that if you look at the Max healing classes can do Rshaman is over 40k behind Rdruid. Chain heal will do 160-260 ish depending on how low people are and up to 750ish if you have a High Tide proc (every 60 or 100k mana spent) and buff it with Unleash life AND it crits AND it heals low health people. On average logs give it at 270.6k. Resto druids wild growth on Mythic Sark is 975.1k, this spell has a 10 sec cd. When they nerfed wellspring for Rshaman it was doing 60% of WG healing with twice it's cd. Is it any wonder Rshaman is bad.
M+ healing is extremely stressful and challenging. Heals are not hitting hard enough, too many extra tasks and burdens fall mainly on the healer (most affixes). Still better than in BFA for example when you had absolute hyperbad bullshit like grievous... but still not good enough.
I did a 19 with holy paladin and a 19 as retr paladin, holy shit what a difference. Healing is so stressful and diffiult. Its insane. Dps is so, so easy compared to healing
Yeah in 19!dps is easy because you can get away with being bad unlike the healer, in higher keys no, you have to do best damage you can and use all your util and kicks effectively aswell as defensives at the right time so as not to troll your healer. In a 19 you can time it and have only the tank ever use kicks and no one ever press a defensive 😂
I did an 11 yesterday (that’s right, an 11) just to get a quick crest for alt spec/the free 437 craft. My GOODNESS are players bad down there. But what a wonderful metaphor for how bad healing in m+ has become. Between the carelessness of bad players, the low healing output, and the fact that the dungeon pool is just bad this season… I’ve done 24s that have kept me closer to sanity than that. People don’t wanna heal this shit because it’s too hard to carry on some classes, despite the keys being abysmally low.
Holy paladin now is kind of how my preservation evoker felt in S1; strong, capable, fun. Maybe not for the same reasons, but both gave the same sense of "this is the correct choice, play me more". (Spoiler, I ended up maining preservation evoker from 10.05 to 10.1.5; then swapped to augmentation because holy crap what a relief!) Hopefully we can see that magic recaptured for ALL healers in the future. The near future. Like the really near future, because at a glance there are currently 6 pages of M+17s with no healer and 1 page with healers. Pugging is suffocating on a lack of that role right now, and it's impacting 80% of players who want to just jump in and play with randoms.
I will never stop healing m+, cuz i love it! I play all healers as well...BUT, this season im feeling burnt out, and alot of the fun is missing. Hpal is so fun ❤ BUT,like u say,every other healer is so far behind and they need to be brought to hpals level instead of hpal getting nerfed ^-^ Ty for always making great content😊💯🔥👌
I mained pres evoker for my guild this raid and I haven't healed a key on that character since Aug came out. Having the knowledge of the dungeons as a healer makes me feel like I'm contributing a ton and it's way less stressful. That said playing hpal is still the most fun I have in dungeons even though I'm only doing 17s/18s opposed to 22s/23s on my Aug. Also, switched my resto druid to guardian this season and that spec is a close second to hpal.
I'm typically a dps player.. but I decided to make a holy paladin. To preface, I am just returning to the game and my friend said holy paladin had just been reworked and would be cool to try. I thoroughly enjoy playing it.. I feel like I always have an answer for some kind of damage.. Only in the high 20s do I find myself running out of things to respond with. That all being said, I absolutely agree with you. I think holy paladin is the template that should be used to bring the other healers up to..
Yeah I just quit healing even on holy paladin. Got the 2500 and said why should I keep doing it when they keep nerfing pally and this was before the last nerf. Every other healer is just not up to par. Would love to heal on other specs but just not worth it.
Not only healing is stressful, we also have shitty players that get instant gears and don’t event know most of the fights. Getting hit by every damn mechanics, and expect us to heal through it.
I have played since vanilla. My first character was a pally and I ended up healing on her. I have made all healing specs since and have enjoyed them all, each brings something different to groups. Sadly though it is hard to play anything other than Hpal. The changes they made to player health, dungeon difficulty etc without boosting healers to match it essentially pushed other healers away from M+. Blizzard needs to fix it the impact on M+ is telling at present.
2:05 - ^^ This... Couldn't agree more... I play Hpal, Resto druid, and pres evoker... Hpal doesn't feel OP... Other healers feel undertuned, or more specifically, feel like they are missing tools in their toolkits to handle all situations.
i've been playing wow since the bc and my main was always a resto druid, i really like the class/spec and it was always fun for me to play ...but damn, not this season definitely...i'm an average player who runs mostly 17-20 and it was so difficult to heal 18-19s just because i don't really have enough spot healing and dps don't press any defensive...and boom - he's dead, and guess who's fault it was on his opinion? I also hate when dps thinks that they should only dps and don't do affixes and it's all on a healer: healing the common damage, healing the avoidable damage when dps nearly dies, healing and dispelling affixes all alone and doing some dps hahah that's really crazy for me so i'm done with healing on this season and currently playing a hunter. And i've never played holy paladin as my main i just don't like it at all so i don't want to switch to pala just because it's op or whatever. sadge 😩
All of the healers need reworks. I've been disappointed that they nerfed mistweaver melee healing this season and now its dumpster tier. I also get why druid is the seasonal tank, it has an excellent kit! So many classes need help right now, I want buffs to the underperforming classes instead of nerfs for the top performance classes. I totally agree, it doesnt solve the problems of current m+.
Just recently got KSM on my Rdruid. First time ever getting it and I had to WORK through the PUGs. Switched to holy paladin and I’m 2 cheating +17’s no sweat. The difference in just overall ease with Hpally is so noticeable and it sucks cuz I want to play other healers, but it almost feels like a waste of time.
If someone gives me shit for dying in a 16, i just ask, Is your defensive up? if yes then i tell them to sit down and use it next time. We can't all be god healers, and that is why classes have personals. Between that and groups that don't interrupt, there is a little bit of misunderstanding of what a healers job is this season. You can only heal stupid for so long and the way the damage output is set up, being stupid is a lot more punishing than it has been before.
1. give healers more spot healing. 2. nerf spike dmg and overall dmg in dungeons. 3. give dps more defensives, especially mail classes. 4. Let tanks have less selfhealing so they rely more on the healer. Healers should be able to heal everyone without dps being twoshot and tank being mostly selfreliant. Healers should have to heal tanks more often. They should have to consistently heal without fearing their dps die in 2 seconds, which by the way solves the issue that some healers have with dealing dmg themselves, if they have to heal more consistently.
Finaly you nailed it, it’s not about needing to nerf holy pala, but about other healers suck, and it’s not about nerfing pala but make other healers fun and also so much viable and bring them to same power and fun
I love priest, play since vanilla and I don’t want to switch to flavor of the month and I rly feel like I’m driving in back seat to not be able to perform at same lvl while I know the game up side down
@@001Elpato class balancing is absolutely atrocious in this expansion I'm not even exaggerating when I say the game balance might currently be the worst it has EVER been the gap between rogue and hunter is so wide it's not even funny, it's just sad same with the gap between Holy Paladin and every other healer spec
I do not do high keys or even really mid keys but trying to do M+ on a new alt with only pugs right now is really painful, those +2-5 keys can have higher overall heal requirements than +15-20s with my friends. Healing like this makes there be less margin to let you safely pug, no safety net of unused healing, I do not want to go into a +3 on a 370 alt and be forced to do over 40k overall and still fail the key(and get blamed for it because 🐒).
I played Hpala as an alt before the patch and when I was around 410 level going into 14's I couldn't outheal the Tyran bleed from the first boss in Brackenhide..... it's SO dumb that you have heal checks that are 20x more punishing than dps ever do.
My 3 healers resto druid, holy pally, and pres evoker (now augmentation due to pain factor when ranged won't stay within range). I am now focusing on holy pally b/c it is "easier" to deal with both ranged and melee DPS. I am currently bringing up my low shammy to 70 to bring in my healer quiver.
As I main heal I totally agree. This season I have totally gave up on pushing high end keys on anything other than my pala because it is more like a choir. Current state of M+ healing is too stressful and demanding, raid healing I found it really enjoyable. However looking on balance for things blizzard will have to take a very good look at every healer and dungeon out there and I feel like all healers abilities and dungeon abilities must be fine tuned. That is a lot of overhead ...but it is what it is. I don't want to be doing keys on AUG evoker or Holy paladin I want to be playing all my healers and have similar experience.
Thats what i felt first day after logging reworked holy paladin. As 400 gear level i felt more comfortable than my +430 shaman. All other healers are clumsy, have some kind of big weakness, but paladin is mobile, big insta single target and group heals, dmg reduction, survivability. I think blizzard should improve other healers utility in a way that it would matter, also all racial powers should be removed.
Tbh I played a LOT during Season 1 but the second blizzard started nerfing classes and meta is shifting it didn't help me a lot. Blizzard need to understand that nerfing and meta shifting impact LFG players a lot cause we don't have time to swap classes and gear up again just to get invited to groups. I left the game near the end of Season and I think people are asking for Hpal all over the place and that sucks for people that plays other classes in LFG and thats just a very bad experience for everyone
I'm a hpal main and know that we were overpowered, but it feels good. I've neglected all my other healers for the exact reason you mention. Don't mind the healing checks, but feel like i have to play perfectly to get through keys on my alts. I feel Blizz should buff others, so at least a bit more divisity pushing for the m+ titles
New healer here. If I wasn't aware of channels and advice like yours - addons, weak auras, vuhdo, macros - Or if I'd never played WoW before, then healing would be just too stressful and I'd put the game down. I think we should be able to manage with default ui as setting up all these addons can take hours and really detracts from the fun and accessibility of WoW.
Totally agree that healing felt amazing again when paladin rework was introduced. I hope blizzard buff all the healers including Holy paladin to what it was so we can go back to having fun. Im not playing until then.
Yeah the other Healing classes need the same love that Hpal got. Like ITS SUPER FUN to play but why can't i play the other healers with the same kind of gameplay loop. Even if Hpal got nerfed into the ground at least the gameplay is fun.
Yes! The paladin toolkit is fun for me. I've been a long time healer and it feels amazing to always have something to press. After the rework, playing other healers just feel off now. Reworks are needed. They need to make all healers fun to compensate for the stress we go through.
As a long time healer. Main Holy P and Resto Sham. Paladin is just so much fun now. I do feel some of my Shammy spells are weak compared but for me just not as fun as it used to be for me.
I've played resto shaman 2.8k mistweaver 2.7k and preservation 2.6k. I can only say mistweaver feels a LOT weaker even compared to my other healers, the comparison to Hpal would be ridiculous at this point lol
Resto shaman main here, this exactly. Holy paladin with 20 ilvls lower than my main sham heals better and has better toolkit for every situation, it's infuriating.
I literally get sick from all the stress that healing causes past 17+. The game requires you to top people up instantly and if you don't have any CD for that, it's game over.
I’m a holy priest main, with an almost 3.2k score. Holy priest is consistently far below any other healer for m+ in every aspect, spot healing, aoe healing, DR, utility, mobility, inmunes, brez. That is the spec that needs the most help
I completely agree Mad.. I'm at the point where the two healers I play (Sham & Evoker) I just want to give up and try a different spec. You don't have the spot healing when needed and if a cast goes off during Fort week due to your other 4 people being lazy. Its like welp here's a wipe incoming cause I don't have a major cooldown to use every trash pull. I see what Blizzard is trying to do but having all these little nerfs every week or every other week is stupid. Why not increase the power the other 5 specs have like you said so we don't feel useless or when you want to help out you cant because you don't have the utility.
It does feel harder, but I think it’s more punishing. Dps and tanks not paying attention make things much harder. I run an 11-12 with two pallies and neither help with affixes. Only interrupters are the two I was grouped with. Not dropping stacks properly, running out of line of sight with a big group and stop. No point in moving, and with affixes popping up and damage going out, a death is ensured. I agree in bringing classes up to holy pally healing level.
i partially agree with you, but you are missing the biggest issue the damage patterns are the real problem the damage is extremely spikey, healing doesn't feel fun when you are just playing whack-a-mole trying to top peoples health to full in half a second before they get chunked down again to 10-20%, we need to return to a world where HP is much higher an healing is weaker, so it feels like you are always trying to fill a bucket of water with a hole in the bottom, atm the the bucket is tiny an the hole is huge so unless you can top the bucket instantly you are useless. it just so happens like you say that H-pal is the only healing class atm that has the ability to constantly play whack-a-mol an top peoples health quickly enough, the solution is not to make every class the same as H-pal, the solution is to make the damage patterns smoother an more consistent, whilst also increasing Health pools, allowing the other healing specs the ability to actually use their toolkits to heal before people get one shot. for example was doing a 23 VP today the 2nd last pack the double adept pack, you miss a single kick on a smite cast before the crushing slam, thats it you are onshot. that's not fun gameplay.
Vortex +18, not enough interrupts to handle the debuffs from trash. The Afflicted affix also needs a dispell this week. As a healer you can only watch how the ship sinks.
I main MW Monk and I'm having a great fun this season. I found the bosses and the heal cheks very interresting. Compared to S1 and SL, I feel very usefull to my group. However, as i don't have M+ push group, I just push to +21/+22 ... this is probably why I keep an happy feeling with this. Perhaps the issues is related to the uncapped nature of M+. What if M+ dung where capped as mythic raid is ?
I would propose three things: 1. That health and damage scaling in m+ needs to be different. Maybe tune down the damage a bit back to 8% and keep the HP at 10%. 2. If mechanics of dungeons need utility constantly, there needs to be shorter cooldowns for those when a keystone is activated. Maybe make it so the CD doesn't start until out of combat like healthstones. 3. Healers, in their talent trees can spec into whatever is needed for the damage profile of the dungeon. Healers can still have their niche by having each tree have different healing profiles at different required paths/points through the tree. I agree that we should have better spot healing when needed but it needs to be a choice but not like lightweaver, it can be 50% more healing but costs 20% more mana or something. The talent trees were supposed to give us agency but they have just been a way to have a different loadout in m+ to raid. If they are going that direction, there should be more nodes to that effect.
i honestly just want MW monk to have some sort of stager shield healing passive attached to some of their spells to really make it feel like it can do something in M+ rather then just heal alot they need some sort of shielding or dr or stagger effect would be amazing for m+ content
The easiest fix for blizzard will probably be to change the damage profile of m+ next season with constant rot damage and less targetted damage doing only 20-30% of a health pool. Perhaps a season affix that is an aura that does 5kdps on every player (scaling as needed). As for this season, it is probably too late but if they want to carry on this design philosophy i think using the secondary resources like maelstorm to provide instant powerful heals could be the way in a similar way that a paladin with holy power can heal. Could give each class a single big heal, a class heal (chain heal, wild growth, group shield etc..) and maybe a damage spender (lava burst, starfire, smite etc..). Then it would be a case of fine tuning how easy these resources are built up and what spells cost but going on paladin it should be about 5-6 seconds of spells equal a full bar (i.e 25% power lightning bolt) and 2-3 spells per bar
Numerical changes to paladin won't ruin the spec because it fundamentally works so well with how hard dungeons are. Healers are hopelessly outdated. Just pressing filler spells between their 2 and 3 minut cds. Paladin is constantly active with lots of spells to press.
Blizz dug a big hole with Holy Pally, and clearly isn't willing to invest the time to fully redesign every other healer to match them, but they are willing to really end the current season right in the middle by nerfing HPal instead. At this point I believe they will continue to nerf HPal until it's complete unplayable - anything short of that would still leave HPal in a much better place than Resto Shaman. It's also impossible to give every healer the toolkit that HPal has without making them all essentially identical. Since it's Blizz we're talking about, they also won't communicate what their plans are for HPal, or healers in general, so we'll all be left guessing about it. I think the only hope for Blizz is if MS makes some major changes to the way they run their operation.
Bro you want them to rework 6 healer specs in the middle of an expansion?? They simply won’t do it now. They will slightly rework and adjust but all class reworks are for the new expansion now
@@calmuz9639you make it seem like you know a lot about blizzard internally? I doubt you do and you're just spitballing. Historically blizzard didn't do entire class overhauls mid expansion like they've done with paladin, or added a whole new spec with basically its own role in the middle of an expansion. But they're doing it now. I don't think it's a stretch that other healers get big changes within this current expansion. Let's not forget there is no borrowed power for the class designers to consider so they can and will work on changing. What else are class designers going to do with their time?
One of my main issues with healing is that I had to spend 1 hour setting up vuhdo frames, since the blizzards party UI is completely trash. - The icons that track my hots are microscopic and almost impossible to see. - There is no way of whitelisting or blacklisting buffs, my 60 min group buff always shows - I had several of issues lately with healing not showing on the blizzard UI, a party member would get stuck on 20% health when they were 100%, I had to /reload sometimes 4-5 in a single m+ run, note this is without any add-ons. - debuffs are terrible, There is no option to show important tank debuffs, the only option you have is "show only dispelable debuffs" - There is no way of knowing if a party member has a personal active, you have to rely on omnicd for this. Some of the notes while setting up Vuhdo - The UI looked terrible out of the box - A bloated plethoria of options. - I had to look for streamer healers, so I could import a custom setting, so I did not have to set it up myself. - Preservation Evokers echo copies (reversion, dream breath) were not available, for this I had to get out of my way to find custom spell ID's and add them in manually. Then, when it comes to healing, I felt that it was way to bursty compared to previous patches, sometimes if you don't heal up in 1-2 seconds, people would die, which is not fun, easy to see that hpala is king with the strong spot healing.
I’m a holy priest main, but I had to get KSM on my warlock because pugging keys on a healer is terrible this season. However, I disagree with you on one point. Buffing healers because the rest of the community refuses to play correctly is a terrible reason! You’re spot on about giving healers a proper toolkit for the mechanics presented. But people are standing in bad, and then crying when they die, and that will be condoned if healers are buffed to mitigate that. I do everything I can to keep people alive, I like the healer role because of that, but if some DPS values their meter more than their life and won’t sidestep a bomb, then I am absolutely blameless. I make sure to tell anyone I pug with, exactly why they died.
Well you said it, All other healers need 10-20% buff to all spells to make m+ healing viable. Same apply to tanks and dps. I don't think Aug, fire, shadow, guard, holadin is Exodia comp but this comp is the only proper comp that work. Every other classes either they don't have the damage or survivability to push that content.
Blizzard is very lazy they will just buff the current healing talents and not look into it and rework each healing class at the same time. They need to look into the dungeons themselves.
This is a polarizing report. I have yet to play DF, but throughout shadowlands I played every spec in the game between keys 15-23. Alot of people I encountered would moan about healer damage the meta that formed around it. I think I would prefer that world over needing to pick the right class just to survive the content and not be miserable.
I definitely prefer the old way Pre-Dragonflight healers had a lot more control over who lives and dies, these days the DPS players kill themselves by not avoiding any enemy AOEs, then get pissed off at you for not popping all your cooldowns on a trash mob group. Everyone is a single mistake away from death and will blame you for it most of the time healing in BfA was fun and relaxing healing in Dragonflight is stressful, unfun, and mentally draining.
Totally agree ... HPriest main and spot heals are crap considering all the incoming damage ... you can only have 1 flash heal on a person + a renew --- after that, you have to compensate with other stuff ... Same with the shammy heals ... Crazy
I stopped running keys on my Resto Shammy. Just to stressful getting into +20 keys. I really do not log in until raid night. Wish rShammy would get buffed more.
Had to make video about this just because everyone else did? The only problem about this season/patch is class balance. I don't think healing even could be fun in the 28-29 keys. I'm pugging around 15s-16s on my alt healer and I am having fun learning the new role. I found it harder to heal in shadowlands.
Hpriest and I honestly vote no confidence that blizzard will ever do anything remotely good with hpriest again. Imo, DF has been the worst xpac for us. We still struggle with mana, we have ZERO aoe healing and the new flash concentration is a joke. Anything remotely interesting in our tree is inaccessible without gimping yourself, and now I have to choose between healing talents and spells that I’ve always had like shackle, MD, and cleansing disease?! Wtf blizzard. I hear a lot of talk about how the balance was so good in season 1, but it wasn’t, it was druids and evokers. Hpriest healing, imo, is actually better in season two and while I really like how the raid set buffs Pom, the talents I need to take to make it work in m+ force me to gut the talents that support an already fragile single target build. I think ima sit the rest of this season or expansion out
Its blizzard were talking about. They gonna nerf hpaladin to the ground eventually [not buffing any other healers] and nerf healing requirements in all dungeons as a 'healer fix'
TBH I played Hpal before the fix (and resto druid before and after too) and hpal felt better pre-patch too. Resto druid handles high HPS fights well like boss 2 VP or Boss 3 HOI but when you're spamming regrowths on a target to top them before the next damage wave it feels bad. Also the inability to do any damage as a non-hpal sucks - buffing HoTs so I can spend more time in cat form wouldn't hurt. The question though is how to not trivialize healing such that in key levels that don't require healer damage (
3k Disc priest here, literally feels like i have to play every global perfect to time a 22+/24+ Uldaman, it's actually insane how difficult it is. If ppl arn't useing their deffensives at the right time (Golem pack before the spider trash or 3rd boss Bleeds+stomp, Thundering stomp dudes LoS), you're just screwed. Rapture fking sucks, the damage just melts the shields in a instant, lazy attonement ramps = dead group. You have to make absolute the best use of Power word:Shield or ur fucked and get behind. Meanwhile Holy pals have 4 times your CDs on lower cooldowns XD... Play perfect or get flamed by room-temperature IQ DPS's who don't intt/CC/Use deffs and just expect you to carry their zugzug press damage only playstyle.
However it feels really rewarding to play when you pull it off.
What do you think disc needs to be brought up to hpal levels ?
As a Resto Shaman main who plays every other healer in +16-18 range - literally every spec - the thing that makes me a bit upset is how >modern< Holy Paladin feels. Resto Shaman is stuck somewhere in the 2016/2017 paradigm whereas Holy Paladin feels like a product of 2023 - very modern, very dynamic.
Exactly that. Also a Resto Sham playere here. And the pure high difference between HPal and Resto Sham ist just insane.
Oh, group takes high unexpected damage you have to deal with NOW? Well say good bye to 50% of your mana and get a heart attack. Because you didn't setup a CBT for it. Or a pwave. And to set it up now takes too long.
Meanwhile HPal....Daybreak, Toll, GG
Other Situation: One Player gets high damage and has some nasty dots. Rsham like:
Oh fast Earth Shield, CBT for emergency, push those Healing Surges!! Eh and y you can't do anything else for the rest of the group, loose your maintain on Riptides & Healing Rain.
...
Meanwhile Hpal: Beacon on him, Flashheal, use you HPower you get from doing that to push a bit more on this Player OR to use it for some AOE Healing OR some Spot healing when someone gets in issue.
What I want to say: Hpal is pure reactive. And has in his toolkit a solution for everything. All he does is on a point of reactivity. To things that happen in M+. This ist the PERFECT Condition for M+. Other Healers therefore Must proactively prepare stuff most of the time or maintain it.
Disc it's ramps
Druid it's hots & Flourish Ramps
RSham his CBT and PWave
HPriest lowering it's cooldowns correctly so they are ready again when he needs it
Monks it's Mists on every Player, his Mana Management and Faeline Positioning
HPal meanwhile: Place Conc and Maintain Glimmer on your Party which you do by just playing your default rotation. And don't worry to run out when you must take care of a player. It has a loooong uptime. So just focus on things you like to do: React to mistakes others have done to SAVE them.
For me is a Healer someone who SAVES the players. This is THEIR Carry potential. Currently Healers are Designed to be able to let the group survive when no or minor mistakes are happening. But I feel a good Healer should always be capable to compensate a mistake of another player. Which is, on the current state, not possible.
Great way to explain the hpal play style. I also play every healer, or at least I did. I stopped playing priest, monk and Druid as healers and tried picking up tanking, warlock and surv hunter just for some more variety/play styles (I know, wtf is a surv hunter lol). Ultimately, feeling like, as said in the video, like a part of a class, just isn’t as rewarding if you aren’t able to push the number necessary.
I disagree about the complexity or the age of the spec.
Playing my Discipline Priest (same for druids) on WotLK Classic make me feel i receive more dopamine everytime i use Flash Heal or Penance compared to the Retail version.
So even a simple toolkit can provide a better feeling when the spell you use are impactful.
@@싸넬동지-7성담배 new world is a great example of simplicity and satisfiying gameplay. I play a LS+VG in new world, and i mostly focus on healing, but sometimes I can get the opportunity to charge in with my energy sword and cut shit up, doing mad damage in the process, and it feels so good. managing my mana while maximising uptime on mobs is an absolute blast, but the mechanic itself is so simple. It's all about impact and smoothness.
My two cents regarding buffing other healers btw is that its a stupid idea. Mistweaver vivify cleave is the same tool used to hit 500k+ hps in raid as it is to heal standard pulls in a +16. You cant buff one without the other. Holy paladin's toolkit is not capable of doing that because it's specificially not designed for 20 person raiding. It's not a raid healer. It *can* raid heal, and you should bring one for the DR's, but it's not a great raid healer.
Ultimately, i think its time to separate m+ and raid healing. The cat is out of the bag, it's time to accept that the content is too different.
@@싸넬동지-7성담배 I am very worried about Disc Priest in Season 3 without our S2 tier set.
Resto druid here. So stressful when spot healing is needed in pugs (+22-24). You do feel exhausted after a couple of keys when your team doesn't use cooldowns it helps out. On top of that some healer affixes really sting extra hard...
''You do feel exhausted after a couple of keys'' TRUE...
Exhausted is on point. Holy Priest here.
Resto druid here. Totally agree. Exhausted
@@ytano5782even more exhausting as holy priest. I feel you.
I 100% agree with your point. I'm a healer main, and I play generally 3-4 healer characters per season. And I have all but quit healing right now because it's just too stressful and not fun anymore.
I have no interest in playing the other healers right now. Paladin is in such a good place it made the others feel like a burden to play. Reworks are needed to add fun to the stress of healing.
Shorter, bursty cooldowns that have synergy would give us options for different situations.
Let's say i use a weak aoe hot on a short cd that's not enough for the damage going out, let me have the option to use a second cd that boosts the first aoe cd on a longer cd.
Long time Resto Druid main. Going into mythic Zskarn we didn’t have enough immunes to handle Bombs. So, I was asked to gear my HPal. This started the week before the rework. Once the reworked dropped I went from 385 to 442 in about a week and a half. Dungeons were night and day compared to the hundreds I had run on RDruid up to that point. I was running 21s and 22s and not breaking a sweat (shout out to the power of crafted gear on a new alt!). We killed Zskarn and I went back to my Druid. But the last few weeks have just felt bad. There are plenty of situations where I’m struggling where I just know I wouldn’t be on my HPal. On top of that my main alt is my Mistweaver and to compare THAT in M+ to HPal is so depressing I don’t even want to get into it. HPal is a lot of fun… buff the rest of the healers to that level as well!
Yeah the rest of the healer should be like holy pally. The devs just dont understand
Pretty based feedback from a true chad gamer.
I play a resto shaman and druid and mythic plus sucks for us. It's just not fun and it's more stressful and work than it should be for one reason or another. Actually a lot of reasons.
Hpal should be the standard. Every other healer should be brought up to that lvl.
Thanks for summing up a repetitive 14 minute video in a single sentence.
I agree, Paladin is the most fun because it is the only healer at the correct power level for the content. it reminds me how anti-fun having 'healer checks' in M+ has been. because a dps can have do low damage and the key goes on, a healer doesn't heal enough they wipe and someone leaves.
i was shammy healing start of season 2 , but gave up didnt feel fun having to drink mana pots after every pull , thought it was just me , but after watching other content creators , i found out it wasnt just me that was having this problem , i tank now and haivng more fun , might come back to healing but something needs to happen
Ha exactly I was 3 k r shammy at start of season mana before the rashok trinket was a nightmare then the groups keep pulling when your oom so you have to catch up from behind or get blamed
Resto druid here. 15+'s were (are) painful and just not fun. I think you're on the right track - it's not brute hps (though hpal excells there too), we don't have enough in the toolkit.
Same here -- hpriest & resto ahammy
100% agree with everything you said, absolutely 100%! However, the biggest problem in M+ which always has been and also will be, especially for healers is the dogshit WoW Community. I've played everything in the pug world (Tank, healer, dps) and by far had the worst and best time as a healer. I love healing, the HPal rework no matter how much they nerf it, I'll still play it because its fun. The sheer amount of shit, hate, threats and everything else a healer has to endure in the pug world disgusting imo. They're expected to know everything immediately and deal with everything immediately, I swear most pugs expect healers to know the tactics before the devs have even designed the dungeons. Start of seasons as a healer is 1 of the worst times to play wow! And I know people say, find a guild etc, I have, but pugging probably makes up the vast majority of keys and you don't find many healers, not because they aren't fun to play or they underperform, it's because people play wow to have fun and escape the real world, not be berated, slated and threatened the entire time because people die to 100% avoidable damage. That issue will never get fixed no matter how fun healing becomes.
Yes! I've been a mistweaver main since the end of legion and I absolutely love it because its so much fun to play, I've been healing 21's and up but I've recently swapped to Aug main because I'm tired of watching dps die in one GCD and getting blamed for it in pugs. I've debated swapping Hpal but I figure I'll give healing a break for now since my favourite class/spec always gets shit on and neglected by blizzard.
Absolutely agree, M+ healing is really tiring. During S2, I started with resto shammy, managed to climb to ilvl 442, but every dung around and above 20 is sweaty. Sometimes when I get invited to a party, they are surprised that "resto shaman even exists". Sometimes (aprx. half of the time) not even get invited to +20, cause they look for disc priest or holy pally, and I can understand that halls of infusion, uldaman and neltharus the worst three for rshammy (and the S2 tier set bonus not helping either, one of the worst I've ever seen). For a change and "relax", I started to play with my aug evoker 3 weeks ago (with a shitty 395 gear), now 2 days ago I cleared every +20 dung for portals. The grind was so much friendlier and less stressful than playing with resto shammy (especially on the week of spiteful affix when I can't start to drink until the ghost disappears but everyone hurries me to pull the next group). Regarding to the toolkits, yes, also agree, for example, spirit link totem would require a rework; so much m+ mechanic where the group can't stay in the 10yrd totem range and have to constantly move (like every boss in uldaman except the trogg), making one of my major cooldown useless.
Its funny, in previous expansons, we always had to wait for a Tank in pug. Now we have to wait for a healer, cause they don't like to play, because its to stressfull. Blizzard reaction: add mana cost to protection paladin's word of glory. So if the shaman is struggling, prot pala can help more less?!
I came back after quitting in shadowlands. At first i thought it was a great expension. But as i got into the 20-24 mythic+ ranges. You start to see how clueless the devs actually are. They probably dont play the game themselves at this level
I feel you. I had the same disappointment in SL, then first I really loved DF, but more I'm in M+, more I'm disappointed (not to mention solo shuffle has almost a similar stressing problem with healers, you competing with 1 healer and not 3 other person as DPS, also the MMR somehow not working, 5 win 1 loss gives you 10 rating, 1 win 5 loss gives you -70 rating)
After this video, I respected my prot pala to holy, to check the difference and did some ~18 M+. O my god, if my remaining mana approached 80%, thenthat was a serious fight.
Also, I checked the *major* cooldown differences:
Holy Paladin
Spell - Minute cooldown
Avenging wrath - 2
Daybreak - 1
Divine Toll - 1
Aura mastery - 3
Blessing of Sacrafice - 1
Blessing of Seasons - 0.66666667
Holy prism - 0.33333334
Tyr's Deliverance - 1,5
Resto Shaman
Spell - Minute cooldown
Healing tide totem- 2.4
Useless Murder Link Totem - 2.9
Ascendance - 3
Mana Tide Totem (with Spiritwalker's Tidal Totem talent) - 2.9
Ancestral Guidance - 2
Nature's swiftness - 1
Now, as you mentioned devs actually clueless about higher M+, and I have to agree. 'Cause almost M+ boss mechanics have an inner ~1 minute cooldown. So as it seems based on the cooldowns above, the major cooldowns (daybreak, divine toll, BoS) are always up for the next boss mechanic, while resto shamy...has to pray that the DPS finish within 3 round. (Not to mention the mana difference). This does not seem fair for other healers. Ofc, rshammy chainheal and useless healing rain (at least in M+ where everyone is constantly moving) with the more useless healing rain tier setbonus, but it doesnt matter if the cooldowns for paladin are coming back that fast (and rshammy out of mana).
I hope blizz answers wont be paladin nerf (to be less fun), but buff other healers (to be less stressful).
agreed, also i still wanted to do some 16+ keys today... saw that we have that afflicted affix and basicly just killed my last motivation to do those runs this week
haha totally same :D the affixes is also part of the problem! IF there is a bad affix some healers will just dont play that week..
I think it's important to point out that this is not just about people falling into another meta; this is isn't just a perception issue, it's actually an issue where one healer is clearly the best/most viable for the content. If this was an argument about whether to take an hpal or an rsham because one can out dps the other that would just be normal metaslave crap.
Pugging a +20 with Hpala feels like it’s a weekly +16 pugging a +20 with holy priest feels like a +25
Totally agree with every point made in this video. I've Mythic raided on Prevoker, Rsham, and Hpal between S1 and S2 and done 20s, 21s, and the occasional 22 on each of them and dabbled in Rdruid up into the 18s/19s. Our core group has a rotating roster of some casuals and some more serious players so we tend to cap out around 21s or 22s but I could feel it coming in S2 and swapped to at the time the more viable Rsham because of the pretty solid rework they did on them. Boy was I wrong though. I thought for sure finally, FINALLY I'll be able to keep up and not live global to global for an entire key praying to RNGesus that it won't feel like trying to fill a bucket of water that has holes in it. Then S2 rolls around and the ST damage profiles in dungeons from one week to the next are OBSCENELY OVERTUNED. Talking pelters just absolutely trucking people despite Blizz claiming that they coded it so targets wouldn't get singled out over and over and over. Lies. So many other areas where the ST incoming damage was just incomprehensibly high and sustained despite well executed kicks, group stuns, and other CC.
Then comes the Hpal rework and having been an Hpal main off and on for the better part of 15 years I thought here we go, here's my chance to play Hpal again. And just like Madz said, it felt like THE DREAM. Everything was so good, my agency as a healer finally felt like it was supposed to. There was challenge but not insurmountable often soul crushing moments of watching one global tick away knowing there was nothing in my toolkit whatsoever outside of SL and Rewind that could save people. 15s-20s shouldn't feel like that; it shouldn't feel like nothing outside of a handful of 2-3 minute cooldowns in my entire toolkit ever matter.
You've got this massive mostly casual player base who peaks somewhere between 15s to 20s meanwhile Blizz seemed to be tuning gameplay and dungeon design around solely those trying to get to 28s, 29s, and 30s so those 15s through 20s now feel like exercises in futility some weeks on everything but Hpal post-rework. Even with the nerfs to Hpal I won't take any other healer to a 20 anymore, why bother? Why spend SO MUCH more energy and sweat my way through keys when I can just bring my Hpal instead. Blizz needs to fix this before the next xpac or it's going to reach a breaking point for the casual or semi-casual community at large. I'm personally insulated from a lot of the issues with the pug community but I feel really freaking bad for any poor sod trying to plow their way through +20ish pugs right now because holy crap does it look bad out there.
Holy paladin is so much fun to play. I’ve played all dragonflight healers except evoker. Even if hpal drops in power below the other healers, I’ll continue to play it while it remains fun
I am exactly the one of those healers who switched to aug evoker for high keys + enjoying holy pala with my lower ilvl friends running lower keys.
I died taking a shot every time you said Holy Paladin =]
Idk, I'm kinda tired of all this "healing sucks" issue (nothing against you m8
I completely agree, not sure why everyone is complaining. I play all the healers, my HPal is one of my most under geared but I was pushing relatively higher keys with it. But its not fun, its too easy. Easy is not fun.
The season has already been buried. People have reached those record breaking key levels with the exodia comp, it's done now, the nerfs came too little, too late. There's a massive part of the community that I think sees m+ as like a climb to the top of a great mountain. Problem is that choosing your class now feels like you're playing slot machines at a casino because of how blizz buff and nerf classes. That's a real problem for people who don't have the time to invest in multiple alts. So when blizzard break hpally and fire mage, then release augvoker, now all those people who have invested so much time into climbing that mountain are watching other players who won at the slot machine just teleport straight to the top. I personally found it deeply frustrating to the point that I've walked away from the game, as a resto shaman... Think about those who chose mistweaver for m+... The fact that mistweaver can exist in it's current state at the same time as hpally did prenerfs is just straight up professional negligence. The expansion is good, yes, but what good is it if you can't play it on the class you want, or if you have to play it with 1 specific class if you want to perform at high levels?
I say this as a multi-season .1% healer, you are absolutely correct, if I didn't have the time to gear several classes, I would have been gimped several times already, its frustrating, but at least the current crafting gear catchup for alts is the best it has been for alts in a long time in my opinion.
I play mistweaver and I feel it's VERY lacking in higher keys. Blizzards reaction to the current situation: let's remove some mana regen talents and add a channeled mana tea to MW monks TROLOLO. I swear they are high on some bad drugs.
The problem was never the "Exodia comp", the problem is the state of the rest of the healing classes and other tanking/dps classes.
@@maxmilian3229 I don't know why you're arguing semantics but that literally also means a problem with the exodia comp, because the other classes aren't up to that standard and it demoralizes players.
@@maxmilian3229 No, lets be real Exodia comp is deffo 90% of the problem in m+, but that extra 10% is still a mountain of problems in its own.
Entirely agree. Switched from RDruid, played for past expansions to Hpally and asked myself why I didnt do it before. Spot healing on demand is absolutely needed for PUGs. Also, theres too much movment needed of groups pull many groups - needed to push 20s. I pity healers that need to ti cast.
cast time healers are begging for 3 seconds to cast a spell in between dodging a hundred projectiles and dispelling everyone's debuffs ASAP
I'm a Healer main myself. Dragonflight feels much harder to heal. I'm literally struggling to hit Keystone Master currently in Season 2. I'm mainly playing Restoration Druid / Restoration Shaman. I do not mind healing checks. They are fun. But I feel like every healer I play feels lacking somewhere.
I PUG all my keys. I started playing halfway BFA and I don't have a lot of friends that play Mythic+. There are runs where I simply struggle to keep my group alive and I feel like I can't do anything to cover for the problems/mistakes that are happening. In Shadowlands I could very easily and comfortably pug my way to KSM, it was just a matter of pushing myself a little but I feel that, with the same healing experience, i'm running into a wall at 13/14s. It feels harder to heal. It feels like there's so MUCH MORE groupwide damage coming in that some healer specs just struggle with.
As a newer player I dont know how valid my opinion is on things, I always feel like I'm the new kid on the block still learning the game and I shouldn't be complaining but at the same time I feel like the experience of a newer player might actually be important here.
tl;dr: Healing feels harder. +15s in DF don't feel like the +15s in Shadowlands. I find myself playing less Mythic+ in Dragonflight than what I did back in Shadowlands. In Shadowlands I'd be running keys constantly when I played, now I often find myself second-guessing if I want to deal with healing a M+ dungeon and sometimes just end up jumping on my Warlock or Mage (who aren't even well geared) and end up doing the exact same key levels as my healers that are at least 20 ilvls higher.
Sometimes it's easier to heal 20's than it is 13/14's as the players are garbage at that keystone level. Literally never use kicks/stuns/defensives and stand in frontals/cleaves.
So yeah in the current healing paradigm we CAN'T always heal mistakes, which we used to be able to do but they absolute fucked us this expansion by making the spikes in damage SO high when they did not need to be.
You got it spot on, I hate playing anything but holy pally when it comes to healing keys. Raids its a different story. I feel I'm missing something on shaman, or priest when I'm running keys. Its not fun, and so many more oh shit moments. I think even nerfed Holy Pally is just to fun, way easier and much more enjoyable to play in keys.
I fully endorse this video, 100%. I play all healer specs and I PUG all my Keys, I do 16-18 keys and the Holy Paly pre nerf was amazing, you got to deal damage with worry abt PUGS not knowing simple mechanics because you could heal to 80% so fast. It made life so much easier, and it felt fulfilling to be that versatile. Now, I have gotten carpel tunnel syndrome from pressing buttons on my keyboard mouse so much due to PUGS taking avoidable damage. I understand that not everyone will be able to cope with these fast pace dungeons especially when you want to time the key, but blizzard needs to empower (BUFFF) the healers more so that we don't feel deterred to heal, cuz i LOVE healing.
I was a 3k HPriest, switched to HPally, i am now 3k on my Hpally in 2 weeks. Was way too easy. I wish my HPriest could compete. But it cant.
As a main monk healer who also loves to have a bunch of alt healers. Holy paladin felt VERY comfortable to play because of the plenty of usefull cds and I hoped that it should be the same for all healers. Also its very sad that with all nerfs happening for M+, those who suffer the most are the ones who just do raiding content. I hope blizzard takes action for the good of everyone
I kind of wonder if this patch single handedly ruined M+ for a whole expansion. The mass healer exodus making pugs nearly impossible and then Aug and the God comp making it even hard trying to run keys. I actually wonder if this actually led to a lot of players leaving.
Oh 100% it will have. Imagine being a MW right now.
@@Theparadoxd7 MW main here, I pray that death comes swiftly and to all of us
Hpala has definitely been very fun, not because he is overpowered with healing ,but that it has so many different tools and spells to press and they feel significant, feels like you REALLY are the engineer that keeps this tank going.
I understand your point of view and agree to a certain extent. Though I think the main reason it feels fun is because it's op, otherwise you would just say it's bloated and has a lot of things going on that don't actually do anything. Therefore the fun comes from the fact that every ability heals so much that you feel you are free to choose the tools for any situation. Imagine if something like essence font ACTUALLY healed instead of doing almost nothing, monks would have one more tool and feel like the spec is more fun. What do you think?
@@lukehawkins7587100% agree. It‘s fun because it‘s OP. I go into a higher key knowing that, if DPS and Tanks do their own job properly, i won‘t have to finish the key all tensed up and burnt out because the healing was super stressful. I can go in and do DPS, can do healing extremely effectively AND efficiently. I don‘t have to drink once in a dungeon.. it all goes smooth.
Hmmm, I definitely see your point. But I don't think it's that Holy Pally is OP with it's amount of healing for each button, I just think that there's a button for each situation and you can create combos to bring group health to full, without a huge setup. I have a 436 Mistweaver (and 438 holy pally), I have easily hit 80-140k hps on my mistweaver and have insanely great thoroughput, but at what cost? Terrible mana management? Terrible mastery that we can't really take advantage of because Essence font cost so much mana and does nothing? Have to spread renewing mist that doesn't last very long, extend your hots with sunrise kicks, and spam vivify for cleave? Our biggest instant heals are Revival on a 2-3 min CD and Sheiluns Gift with a 40-80 sec charge time? We have our 1-3min Celestial but that requires ramp up to take full advantage. These are all draw backs, but if played right I can easily pump out insane amount of heals. But you look at Holy Pally, who has a complete toolkit that has major short CD's, doesn't require huge ramps to pump out big heals, have much better spot healing. Even after all the nerfs to Holy pally, it still feels better to play than any other healer because you feel like you're prepared for any situtation, you don't have to sweat about ramp ups, about mana, spot healing, thoroughput healing, etc.
It's as Madskills said, Holy pally feels like a product of 2023 for healers. It's not that it's doing gross amount of healing, it's just it has a toolkit that has answer for every damage type pattern. I mainly play my mistweaver more than any of my healers because it's super fun despite it's shortcomings; I just want us to have an awesome rework. Perhaps splitting Fistweaving and Mistweaving into two different specs?
@@lukehawkins7587
@@Soulmatic25I have to say I didn't fully consider the paladins spells also having the qualities you mention (being fast, reactive and complementary to the damage pattern mainly). In the end, after considering your comment, I think what really makes paladin successful is the combo of the two points we've made: big throughput that can be distributed very fast, effectively and effortlessly thanks to a great variety of strong spells.
Regarding mistweaver Im playing it too (2.7k) juse because I like it but, as i mentioned in another comment, it feels much weaker than others and the whole ramp situation makes it very clunky at times. I would love some kind of rework because there are parts of the kit that currently serve almost no purpose. The mana tea change is a good step in that direction imo.
@@lukehawkins7587 Absolutely agree with you on your points. Just an awesome overall package that holy paladin offers.
I'm so happy about the mana tea rework, tested it in ptr and it feels very nice, but a bandaid to the problem for sure. The ramp can Def feel clunky :(, Definitely hoping for a rework!! And a rework for many of the other healers too!! I feel like it's coming our way, I'm sure it's a big undertaking.
I got all the portals in 2 weeks on an alt sub rogue with a friend on a hpal and now there’s nothing left to do.
Yeah 100% agree with this. It was like when Resto Shaman was top and people were calling for Rshaman damage nerfs, and its like bro we don't even do 40% of a dps damage, EVERY other healer needed dps buffs up to this level.
Then you look to Rshaman in raids and we have been ignored from Beta until we finally got buffed to a decent state for 2 weeks then they nerfed us down to last/second last place.....then they nerfed AG because of ele and enhance so we went straight down to last place and remained there even after a 3% and 5% buff. Like we were better before they started "changing" us, at least we had Wellspring. Like literally every Shaman complained about the nerf and they forced it through and all we have been asking for since is for it to return.
But do they listen? No. We'll just let Hpala be top healer in m+ and raid by over 40% in terms of hps for over a month....
As a main healer, I do feel like we should have a buff to other healers.
in my opinion, even if all healers are stronger, and it bring this power to raid we'll just run with less healers in raid, and it will be fine. let's just have fun everywhere!
But what if none of your healers want to swap in raid?
@@akariaax6666
it's not about a swap, but bringing less healer in the group for all the raid. instead of runnin 2/4/14 we would be running 2/2/14 and at least 2 support classes (with more classes than augvoker)
let's just redesign what a raid comp is.
I disagree about the complexity or the age of the spec.
Playing my Discipline Priest (same for druids) on WotLK Classic make me feel i receive more dopamine everytime i use Flash Heal or Penance compared to the Retail version.
So even a simple toolkit can provide a better feeling when the spell you use are impactful.
I think the mechanism that makes Holy Paladin completely different (arguably better) than all the other healers is that they have two resources: Holy Power & Mana. Their talents across their general paladin & holy trees generate or proc holy power regen or mana regen. I play every spec of healer in M+, so I noted that all my other healers just rely on mana. The advantage that Holy Paladin has of two resources (Holy Power/Mana) in comparison to literally every other healer is sincerely overlooked. Even on my resto shaman whom is my most mana efficient healer, for very hard pulls, I have to budget my mana or drink afterwards. It's like my Holy Paladin & all my others healers are playing a different game with different rules. Notably, the Holy Paladin having a wealth of resources that they only get, essentially Holy Paladin being able to pull from two energy resources makes them a long lasting battery.
A disc priest since WOTLK. Not gonna roll another for the sake of topping healing charts. Disc will always be my main.
I just started healing higher than 8 keys this season and im loving it a LOT more than raid. Raid just frustrates me a lot but m+ its just better for me though there are times i get stressed. Im almost 2500, and so close to timing my first 20 not too long ago. Holy priest though i hope theres a postivie rework to disc soon!
I'm enjoying healing on Rdruid, Mistweaver and Hpally. The Hpally difference for me is being able to bubble and ignore mechanics to heal; Other than that, they don't feel quite as out of line after the nerfs. Buffing all other healers has the possibility of unbalancing the heck out of raid healing (I see people complaining about resto shammy but i've been dummied by resto shamans doing 150khps on Echo and sark heroic while i'm doing 120-140khps at 441.
I don't know what the answer is for the unbalance. Rdruid feels fine for m+ to me with tree of life, ironbark and just having kept your hots rolling. Mistweaver feels a little slower to react which is unfortunate and you really only have the 3 cd's instead of the 5 pally has.
Personally i don't feel like resto druids should be in the list of what feels bad and the fix for mistweaver would be to take the beam spell off gcd, simple as that imo.
I mean you can look at the statistics page for healers in Mythic, Rshaman even after getting an 8% buff is still in last place.
Not only that if you look at the Max healing classes can do Rshaman is over 40k behind Rdruid.
Chain heal will do 160-260 ish depending on how low people are and up to 750ish if you have a High Tide proc (every 60 or 100k mana spent) and buff it with Unleash life AND it crits AND it heals low health people. On average logs give it at 270.6k.
Resto druids wild growth on Mythic Sark is 975.1k, this spell has a 10 sec cd.
When they nerfed wellspring for Rshaman it was doing 60% of WG healing with twice it's cd.
Is it any wonder Rshaman is bad.
M+ healing is extremely stressful and challenging. Heals are not hitting hard enough, too many extra tasks and burdens fall mainly on the healer (most affixes). Still better than in BFA for example when you had absolute hyperbad bullshit like grievous... but still not good enough.
I did a 19 with holy paladin and a 19 as retr paladin, holy shit what a difference. Healing is so stressful and diffiult. Its insane. Dps is so, so easy compared to healing
Now imagine doing it with a worse healing class
Blizz needs to come up with a DPS only affix that does not punish healers
@@vangueliskdps will still find a way to blame you don’t worry haha
Yeah in 19!dps is easy because you can get away with being bad unlike the healer, in higher keys no, you have to do best damage you can and use all your util and kicks effectively aswell as defensives at the right time so as not to troll your healer. In a 19 you can time it and have only the tank ever use kicks and no one ever press a defensive 😂
I did an 11 yesterday (that’s right, an 11) just to get a quick crest for alt spec/the free 437 craft. My GOODNESS are players bad down there. But what a wonderful metaphor for how bad healing in m+ has become. Between the carelessness of bad players, the low healing output, and the fact that the dungeon pool is just bad this season… I’ve done 24s that have kept me closer to sanity than that. People don’t wanna heal this shit because it’s too hard to carry on some classes, despite the keys being abysmally low.
Holy paladin now is kind of how my preservation evoker felt in S1; strong, capable, fun. Maybe not for the same reasons, but both gave the same sense of "this is the correct choice, play me more". (Spoiler, I ended up maining preservation evoker from 10.05 to 10.1.5; then swapped to augmentation because holy crap what a relief!)
Hopefully we can see that magic recaptured for ALL healers in the future. The near future. Like the really near future, because at a glance there are currently 6 pages of M+17s with no healer and 1 page with healers. Pugging is suffocating on a lack of that role right now, and it's impacting 80% of players who want to just jump in and play with randoms.
I will never stop healing m+, cuz i love it! I play all healers as well...BUT, this season im feeling burnt out, and alot of the fun is missing. Hpal is so fun ❤ BUT,like u say,every other healer is so far behind and they need to be brought to hpals level instead of hpal getting nerfed ^-^ Ty for always making great content😊💯🔥👌
I mained pres evoker for my guild this raid and I haven't healed a key on that character since Aug came out. Having the knowledge of the dungeons as a healer makes me feel like I'm contributing a ton and it's way less stressful. That said playing hpal is still the most fun I have in dungeons even though I'm only doing 17s/18s opposed to 22s/23s on my Aug.
Also, switched my resto druid to guardian this season and that spec is a close second to hpal.
I'm typically a dps player.. but I decided to make a holy paladin. To preface, I am just returning to the game and my friend said holy paladin had just been reworked and would be cool to try. I thoroughly enjoy playing it.. I feel like I always have an answer for some kind of damage.. Only in the high 20s do I find myself running out of things to respond with.
That all being said, I absolutely agree with you. I think holy paladin is the template that should be used to bring the other healers up to..
Yeah I just quit healing even on holy paladin. Got the 2500 and said why should I keep doing it when they keep nerfing pally and this was before the last nerf. Every other healer is just not up to par. Would love to heal on other specs but just not worth it.
Not only healing is stressful, we also have shitty players that get instant gears and don’t event know most of the fights. Getting hit by every damn mechanics, and expect us to heal through it.
I have played since vanilla. My first character was a pally and I ended up healing on her. I have made all healing specs since and have enjoyed them all, each brings something different to groups. Sadly though it is hard to play anything other than Hpal. The changes they made to player health, dungeon difficulty etc without boosting healers to match it essentially pushed other healers away from M+. Blizzard needs to fix it the impact on M+ is telling at present.
Same
2:05 - ^^ This... Couldn't agree more... I play Hpal, Resto druid, and pres evoker... Hpal doesn't feel OP... Other healers feel undertuned, or more specifically, feel like they are missing tools in their toolkits to handle all situations.
i switched from shaman to paladin and yes paladin has so many cool good and usefull cds and every other class should have them too
i've been playing wow since the bc and my main was always a resto druid, i really like the class/spec and it was always fun for me to play ...but damn, not this season definitely...i'm an average player who runs mostly 17-20 and it was so difficult to heal 18-19s just because i don't really have enough spot healing and dps don't press any defensive...and boom - he's dead, and guess who's fault it was on his opinion? I also hate when dps thinks that they should only dps and don't do affixes and it's all on a healer: healing the common damage, healing the avoidable damage when dps nearly dies, healing and dispelling affixes all alone and doing some dps hahah that's really crazy for me so i'm done with healing on this season and currently playing a hunter. And i've never played holy paladin as my main i just don't like it at all so i don't want to switch to pala just because it's op or whatever. sadge 😩
All of the healers need reworks. I've been disappointed that they nerfed mistweaver melee healing this season and now its dumpster tier. I also get why druid is the seasonal tank, it has an excellent kit! So many classes need help right now, I want buffs to the underperforming classes instead of nerfs for the top performance classes. I totally agree, it doesnt solve the problems of current m+.
They didn't nerf Mistweaver melee healing, they had a 10% global damage boost so they nerfed ATotM so that healing is the same.
Just recently got KSM on my Rdruid. First time ever getting it and I had to WORK through the PUGs. Switched to holy paladin and I’m 2 cheating +17’s no sweat. The difference in just overall ease with Hpally is so noticeable and it sucks cuz I want to play other healers, but it almost feels like a waste of time.
Playing other healers is a waste of time. A +17 on a Holy paladin feels like a +13 while a +17 on holy priest feels like a +24
Took a 2 week break for affliction and incorporeal. Can't wait to be oom all the time again next week.
If someone gives me shit for dying in a 16, i just ask, Is your defensive up? if yes then i tell them to sit down and use it next time. We can't all be god healers, and that is why classes have personals. Between that and groups that don't interrupt, there is a little bit of misunderstanding of what a healers job is this season. You can only heal stupid for so long and the way the damage output is set up, being stupid is a lot more punishing than it has been before.
I've been enjoying season 2 played Disc, Rdruid & MW monk so far. only 2.9k but still having fun. Only pug.
Maybe i'm just ignorant because i've not got a holy pala character.
1. give healers more spot healing.
2. nerf spike dmg and overall dmg in dungeons.
3. give dps more defensives, especially mail classes.
4. Let tanks have less selfhealing so they rely more on the healer.
Healers should be able to heal everyone without dps being twoshot and tank being mostly selfreliant. Healers should have to heal tanks more often. They should have to consistently heal without fearing their dps die in 2 seconds, which by the way solves the issue that some healers have with dealing dmg themselves, if they have to heal more consistently.
Finaly you nailed it, it’s not about needing to nerf holy pala, but about other healers suck, and it’s not about nerfing pala but make other healers fun and also so much viable and bring them to same power and fun
I love priest, play since vanilla and I don’t want to switch to flavor of the month and I rly feel like I’m driving in back seat to not be able to perform at same lvl while I know the game up side down
@@001Elpato class balancing is absolutely atrocious in this expansion
I'm not even exaggerating when I say the game balance might currently be the worst it has EVER been
the gap between rogue and hunter is so wide it's not even funny, it's just sad
same with the gap between Holy Paladin and every other healer spec
Hi, do you recomand a healer to play full with a blood dk ? I will play only with a mate bdk so I want something good synergy. Thanks :)
I do not do high keys or even really mid keys but trying to do M+ on a new alt with only pugs right now is really painful, those +2-5 keys can have higher overall heal requirements than +15-20s with my friends.
Healing like this makes there be less margin to let you safely pug, no safety net of unused healing, I do not want to go into a +3 on a 370 alt and be forced to do over 40k overall and still fail the key(and get blamed for it because 🐒).
I played Hpala as an alt before the patch and when I was around 410 level going into 14's I couldn't outheal the Tyran bleed from the first boss in Brackenhide..... it's SO dumb that you have heal checks that are 20x more punishing than dps ever do.
My 3 healers resto druid, holy pally, and pres evoker (now augmentation due to pain factor when ranged won't stay within range). I am now focusing on holy pally b/c it is "easier" to deal with both ranged and melee DPS. I am currently bringing up my low shammy to 70 to bring in my healer quiver.
As I main heal I totally agree. This season I have totally gave up on pushing high end keys on anything other than my pala because it is more like a choir. Current state of M+ healing is too stressful and demanding, raid healing I found it really enjoyable. However looking on balance for things blizzard will have to take a very good look at every healer and dungeon out there and I feel like all healers abilities and dungeon abilities must be fine tuned. That is a lot of overhead ...but it is what it is. I don't want to be doing keys on AUG evoker or Holy paladin I want to be playing all my healers and have similar experience.
Couldn't agree more, thanks for the video!
Thats what i felt first day after logging reworked holy paladin. As 400 gear level i felt more comfortable than my +430 shaman. All other healers are clumsy, have some kind of big weakness, but paladin is mobile, big insta single target and group heals, dmg reduction, survivability. I think blizzard should improve other healers utility in a way that it would matter, also all racial powers should be removed.
Tbh I played a LOT during Season 1 but the second blizzard started nerfing classes and meta is shifting it didn't help me a lot. Blizzard need to understand that nerfing and meta shifting impact LFG players a lot cause we don't have time to swap classes and gear up again just to get invited to groups. I left the game near the end of Season and I think people are asking for Hpal all over the place and that sucks for people that plays other classes in LFG and thats just a very bad experience for everyone
I'm a hpal main and know that we were overpowered, but it feels good. I've neglected all my other healers for the exact reason you mention.
Don't mind the healing checks, but feel like i have to play perfectly to get through keys on my alts.
I feel Blizz should buff others, so at least a bit more divisity pushing for the m+ titles
New healer here. If I wasn't aware of channels and advice like yours - addons, weak auras, vuhdo, macros - Or if I'd never played WoW before, then healing would be just too stressful and I'd put the game down. I think we should be able to manage with default ui as setting up all these addons can take hours and really detracts from the fun and accessibility of WoW.
Totally agree that healing felt amazing again when paladin rework was introduced. I hope blizzard buff all the healers including Holy paladin to what it was so we can go back to having fun. Im not playing until then.
Yeah the other Healing classes need the same love that Hpal got. Like ITS SUPER FUN to play but why can't i play the other healers with the same kind of gameplay loop. Even if Hpal got nerfed into the ground at least the gameplay is fun.
Yes! The paladin toolkit is fun for me. I've been a long time healer and it feels amazing to always have something to press. After the rework, playing other healers just feel off now. Reworks are needed. They need to make all healers fun to compensate for the stress we go through.
As a long time healer. Main Holy P and Resto Sham. Paladin is just so much fun now. I do feel some of my Shammy spells are weak compared but for me just not as fun as it used to be for me.
I've played resto shaman 2.8k mistweaver 2.7k and preservation 2.6k. I can only say mistweaver feels a LOT weaker even compared to my other healers, the comparison to Hpal would be ridiculous at this point lol
Resto shaman main here, this exactly. Holy paladin with 20 ilvls lower than my main sham heals better and has better toolkit for every situation, it's infuriating.
I literally get sick from all the stress that healing causes past 17+. The game requires you to top people up instantly and if you don't have any CD for that, it's game over.
So play better
Basically HoI 3rd boss on Tyr
I’m a holy priest main, with an almost 3.2k score.
Holy priest is consistently far below any other healer for m+ in every aspect, spot healing, aoe healing, DR, utility, mobility, inmunes, brez. That is the spec that needs the most help
I completely agree Mad.. I'm at the point where the two healers I play (Sham & Evoker) I just want to give up and try a different spec. You don't have the spot healing when needed and if a cast goes off during Fort week due to your other 4 people being lazy. Its like welp here's a wipe incoming cause I don't have a major cooldown to use every trash pull. I see what Blizzard is trying to do but having all these little nerfs every week or every other week is stupid. Why not increase the power the other 5 specs have like you said so we don't feel useless or when you want to help out you cant because you don't have the utility.
It does feel harder, but I think it’s more punishing. Dps and tanks not paying attention make things much harder. I run an 11-12 with two pallies and neither help with affixes. Only interrupters are the two I was grouped with. Not dropping stacks properly, running out of line of sight with a big group and stop. No point in moving, and with affixes popping up and damage going out, a death is ensured. I agree in bringing classes up to holy pally healing level.
i partially agree with you, but you are missing the biggest issue the damage patterns are the real problem the damage is extremely spikey, healing doesn't feel fun when you are just playing whack-a-mole trying to top peoples health to full in half a second before they get chunked down again to 10-20%, we need to return to a world where HP is much higher an healing is weaker, so it feels like you are always trying to fill a bucket of water with a hole in the bottom, atm the the bucket is tiny an the hole is huge so unless you can top the bucket instantly you are useless.
it just so happens like you say that H-pal is the only healing class atm that has the ability to constantly play whack-a-mol an top peoples health quickly enough, the solution is not to make every class the same as H-pal, the solution is to make the damage patterns smoother an more consistent, whilst also increasing Health pools, allowing the other healing specs the ability to actually use their toolkits to heal before people get one shot. for example was doing a 23 VP today the 2nd last pack the double adept pack, you miss a single kick on a smite cast before the crushing slam, thats it you are onshot. that's not fun gameplay.
Vortex +18, not enough interrupts to handle the debuffs from trash. The Afflicted affix also needs a dispell this week. As a healer you can only watch how the ship sinks.
I main MW Monk and I'm having a great fun this season. I found the bosses and the heal cheks very interresting. Compared to S1 and SL, I feel very usefull to my group.
However, as i don't have M+ push group, I just push to +21/+22 ... this is probably why I keep an happy feeling with this.
Perhaps the issues is related to the uncapped nature of M+. What if M+ dung where capped as mythic raid is ?
Remember when they buffed the HP of everyone from S1 to S2. They designed it this way but they over did it.
I would propose three things:
1. That health and damage scaling in m+ needs to be different. Maybe tune down the damage a bit back to 8% and keep the HP at 10%.
2. If mechanics of dungeons need utility constantly, there needs to be shorter cooldowns for those when a keystone is activated. Maybe make it so the CD doesn't start until out of combat like healthstones.
3. Healers, in their talent trees can spec into whatever is needed for the damage profile of the dungeon. Healers can still have their niche by having each tree have different healing profiles at different required paths/points through the tree. I agree that we should have better spot healing when needed but it needs to be a choice but not like lightweaver, it can be 50% more healing but costs 20% more mana or something.
The talent trees were supposed to give us agency but they have just been a way to have a different loadout in m+ to raid. If they are going that direction, there should be more nodes to that effect.
i honestly just want MW monk to have some sort of stager shield healing passive attached to some of their spells to really make it feel like it can do something in M+ rather then just heal alot they need some sort of shielding or dr or stagger effect would be amazing for m+ content
The easiest fix for blizzard will probably be to change the damage profile of m+ next season with constant rot damage and less targetted damage doing only 20-30% of a health pool. Perhaps a season affix that is an aura that does 5kdps on every player (scaling as needed).
As for this season, it is probably too late but if they want to carry on this design philosophy i think using the secondary resources like maelstorm to provide instant powerful heals could be the way in a similar way that a paladin with holy power can heal. Could give each class a single big heal, a class heal (chain heal, wild growth, group shield etc..) and maybe a damage spender (lava burst, starfire, smite etc..). Then it would be a case of fine tuning how easy these resources are built up and what spells cost but going on paladin it should be about 5-6 seconds of spells equal a full bar (i.e 25% power lightning bolt) and 2-3 spells per bar
I started season 2 as a mistweaver monk and struggled to get my 2k rating. Switching to H Pally has been a breath of fresh air.
Numerical changes to paladin won't ruin the spec because it fundamentally works so well with how hard dungeons are. Healers are hopelessly outdated. Just pressing filler spells between their 2 and 3 minut cds. Paladin is constantly active with lots of spells to press.
Blizz dug a big hole with Holy Pally, and clearly isn't willing to invest the time to fully redesign every other healer to match them, but they are willing to really end the current season right in the middle by nerfing HPal instead. At this point I believe they will continue to nerf HPal until it's complete unplayable - anything short of that would still leave HPal in a much better place than Resto Shaman. It's also impossible to give every healer the toolkit that HPal has without making them all essentially identical. Since it's Blizz we're talking about, they also won't communicate what their plans are for HPal, or healers in general, so we'll all be left guessing about it. I think the only hope for Blizz is if MS makes some major changes to the way they run their operation.
Bro you want them to rework 6 healer specs in the middle of an expansion?? They simply won’t do it now. They will slightly rework and adjust but all class reworks are for the new expansion now
@@calmuz9639 If they had enough time to harass women, they have the time to work on reworks/buffs.
@@maxmilian3229 they reworked all 36 specs at the beginning of dragonflight but yeah funny comment on a 2 year old case 🤣
@@calmuz9639you make it seem like you know a lot about blizzard internally? I doubt you do and you're just spitballing. Historically blizzard didn't do entire class overhauls mid expansion like they've done with paladin, or added a whole new spec with basically its own role in the middle of an expansion. But they're doing it now. I don't think it's a stretch that other healers get big changes within this current expansion. Let's not forget there is no borrowed power for the class designers to consider so they can and will work on changing. What else are class designers going to do with their time?
One of my main issues with healing is that I had to spend 1 hour setting up vuhdo frames, since the blizzards party UI is completely trash.
- The icons that track my hots are microscopic and almost impossible to see.
- There is no way of whitelisting or blacklisting buffs, my 60 min group buff always shows
- I had several of issues lately with healing not showing on the blizzard UI, a party member would get stuck on 20% health when they were 100%, I had to /reload sometimes 4-5 in a single m+ run, note this is without any add-ons.
- debuffs are terrible, There is no option to show important tank debuffs, the only option you have is "show only dispelable debuffs"
- There is no way of knowing if a party member has a personal active, you have to rely on omnicd for this.
Some of the notes while setting up Vuhdo
- The UI looked terrible out of the box
- A bloated plethoria of options.
- I had to look for streamer healers, so I could import a custom setting, so I did not have to set it up myself.
- Preservation Evokers echo copies (reversion, dream breath) were not available, for this I had to get out of my way to find custom spell ID's and add them in manually.
Then, when it comes to healing, I felt that it was way to bursty compared to previous patches, sometimes if you don't heal up in 1-2 seconds, people would die, which is not fun, easy to see that hpala is king with the strong spot healing.
I’m a holy priest main, but I had to get KSM on my warlock because pugging keys on a healer is terrible this season. However, I disagree with you on one point. Buffing healers because the rest of the community refuses to play correctly is a terrible reason! You’re spot on about giving healers a proper toolkit for the mechanics presented. But people are standing in bad, and then crying when they die, and that will be condoned if healers are buffed to mitigate that. I do everything I can to keep people alive, I like the healer role because of that, but if some DPS values their meter more than their life and won’t sidestep a bomb, then I am absolutely blameless. I make sure to tell anyone I pug with, exactly why they died.
Well you said it, All other healers need 10-20% buff to all spells to make m+ healing viable. Same apply to tanks and dps.
I don't think Aug, fire, shadow, guard, holadin is Exodia comp but this comp is the only proper comp that work. Every other classes either they don't have the damage or survivability to push that content.
Baldur's Gate 3 is fun :)
Playing Guild Wars for fun. Really enjoying it..Took a break from WoW
Blizzard is very lazy they will just buff the current healing talents and not look into it and rework each healing class at the same time.
They need to look into the dungeons themselves.
exactly holy pala was the only one strong enough for this m+ cocain content
Carefull, we dont want to nerf m+ to SL S3. We want healer are able to heal what is requred rn
This is a polarizing report. I have yet to play DF, but throughout shadowlands I played every spec in the game between keys 15-23. Alot of people I encountered would moan about healer damage the meta that formed around it. I think I would prefer that world over needing to pick the right class just to survive the content and not be miserable.
I definitely prefer the old way
Pre-Dragonflight healers had a lot more control over who lives and dies, these days the DPS players kill themselves by not avoiding any enemy AOEs, then get pissed off at you for not popping all your cooldowns on a trash mob group. Everyone is a single mistake away from death and will blame you for it most of the time
healing in BfA was fun and relaxing
healing in Dragonflight is stressful, unfun, and mentally draining.
Totally agree ... HPriest main and spot heals are crap considering all the incoming damage ... you can only have 1 flash heal on a person + a renew --- after that, you have to compensate with other stuff ... Same with the shammy heals ... Crazy
Df2 is my first season healing. I’m not sure if I like healing or if I just like Preservation Evoker. Just love the flavor of the spec.
It's honestly one of the more boring healer specs. Powerful, but boring.
I stopped running keys on my Resto Shammy. Just to stressful getting into +20 keys. I really do not log in until raid night. Wish rShammy would get buffed more.
Had to make video about this just because everyone else did? The only problem about this season/patch is class balance. I don't think healing even could be fun in the 28-29 keys. I'm pugging around 15s-16s on my alt healer and I am having fun learning the new role. I found it harder to heal in shadowlands.
Hpriest and I honestly vote no confidence that blizzard will ever do anything remotely good with hpriest again. Imo, DF has been the worst xpac for us. We still struggle with mana, we have ZERO aoe healing and the new flash concentration is a joke. Anything remotely interesting in our tree is inaccessible without gimping yourself, and now I have to choose between healing talents and spells that I’ve always had like shackle, MD, and cleansing disease?! Wtf blizzard.
I hear a lot of talk about how the balance was so good in season 1, but it wasn’t, it was druids and evokers. Hpriest healing, imo, is actually better in season two and while I really like how the raid set buffs Pom, the talents I need to take to make it work in m+ force me to gut the talents that support an already fragile single target build. I think ima sit the rest of this season or expansion out
very glad i decided to not come back for healing for season 2,hopefully they balance the healing classes out more soon
Its blizzard were talking about. They gonna nerf hpaladin to the ground eventually [not buffing any other healers] and nerf healing requirements in all dungeons as a 'healer fix'
TBH I played Hpal before the fix (and resto druid before and after too) and hpal felt better pre-patch too. Resto druid handles high HPS fights well like boss 2 VP or Boss 3 HOI but when you're spamming regrowths on a target to top them before the next damage wave it feels bad. Also the inability to do any damage as a non-hpal sucks - buffing HoTs so I can spend more time in cat form wouldn't hurt. The question though is how to not trivialize healing such that in key levels that don't require healer damage (