ASIAIR vs. LAPTOP vs. EAGLE
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- All versions of the ASIAir and EAGLE are available to purchase here: bit.ly/Eagle-asiair. Head to squarespace.com/nebulaphotos for a 14 day free trial and to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code NEBULAPHOTOS
Contents
=============================
0:00 The Competitors
0:59 Disclosures
2:01 History
7:15 Comparisons
11:38 Squarespace (Sponsor)
12:53 Physical Characteristics
24:24 Connectivity
29:34 Feature Set
32:08 Software
36:58 Final Thoughts
38:13 Patreon / Credits
Patreon
=============================
This video was made possible with the generous support of my members on Patreon. If you would like to join, it starts at just $1/month, and there are many perks! / nebulaphotos
Video Disclosure
=============================
This video was sponsored by Squarespace.
All versions of the ASIAir and EAGLE are available to purchase here: bit.ly/Eagle-asiair
In the cold northern USA winters, this hobby has another level added to all it's other challenges. Bitter sweet fun. The asiair is the best thing ever! Going from hours of prep time, to rolling out the rig and doing minor mechanical polar alignment to imaging in 20 minutes! And the rest indoors. AHHH..
By the way, your patient, wise guidance in no small part kept me going to this point. It also alows polar alignment even if Polaris isn't visible.
Unfortunately it's locked up to the max. We don't need Apple for Astro tbh.
@@testboga5991 nobody forcing you to go down this route or buying a MAC.
you missed out a mini PC option. 500GB storage, 16-32GB ram, a Ryzen 5+ Or you could go as low as 120$ for Celeron or 200-300 for Ryzen 3 or Core i3/i5 mini PCs
I just spoke with Daniel from Astro Gear, really great guy and very helpful, really seems to know his stuff. He helped me a lot and thanks to you Nico I'll be throwing him some business. Thanks for everything you do. Clear Skies
Superb video Nico!! There's so many facets to this but you tackled it brilliantly mate, I'm always blown away by the quality of your work & presentations :-) Thanks for doing all you do!
Thanks Luke! This one started about twice as long, and I somewhat ruthlessly started cutting anything I thought was too boring or only applicable to my situation. I appreciate the words of encouragement from someone else doing these kinds of review videos!
@@NebulaPhotos Your work is something I really look up to, so however you reached the end result that we all see - keep doing it! :-D It's working!
Another great well-planned video!
Outstanding review again Nico, superb overview !
Great video! Very methodic and rigorous. Thank you!
This was awesome. Appreciate the deep dive. 😄
Just a short comment to say thank you for a very informative , interesting and honest review that you presented. I appreciate the time and you put into your presentation to make it well worth watching by all.
Great review: I have the Eagle 3 and the AsiAir plus and find the Asi Air just so much easier and intuitive to use; the time it takes to start imaging, if you don't have a fixed mount, is much quicker with the Asi Air. ZWO products work well and work well together.
As someone who doesn't drive, the Asiair Plus has given me access to a lot more options than would otherwise be available to me. I just started deep sky imaging in November, and I'm able to pack my Ioptron Skyhunter mount, a Skywatcher 72ed, and my portable battery, DSLR, guide camera, and all my other bits for the evening in a hiking backpack, hop on the bus, and head to a darker part of my city. I'm amazed at what I've been able to capture already, and I'm definitely far more limited by my skill level than I am by my equipment.
First up, I just want to say thank you Nico for producing this video as it’s quite a hot talking point atm. While I remember, being able to run iOS apps natively on Mac is only for Apple Silicon. However if you *really* wanted to, you could dual boot an Intel MacBook with Windows and run an emulator.
Locking connectors cannot be overstated! It’s a huge reason the Eagle is chosen for remote setups and why I’d rather have USB C connectors on cameras. You want as many watchdogs and assurances that things will go to plan when you can’t physically be there. Also, being able to power cycle individual ports cannot be overstated. I love NINA and still think for 95% of users NINA + Mini PC like the Mele Quieter 3C is the way to go, it still lacks things like locking connectors & proper power cycling unless you’re also running the Advanced Pegasus box. I run the standard and can only power cycle all 12V ports... which isn’t exactly helpful in real world usage.
The main pro and con with a PC or Eagle setup is Windows. Windows is genuinely my #1 issue when it comes to astro for me. Forced updates on shutdown, networked computers no longer talking to each other (a known and looooong stranding issue since HomeGroup was dropped) crappy file transfer speeds even on Gen 4 SSDs and 10Gbe networking.. I could go on ha ha. That’s why I understand people using an ASI Air (regardless of ZWO’s aggressive marketing)
I see the pros for each setup, but generally a £250 / $250 mini PC + NINA (free) + Pegasus box is the most flexible and power packed setup one can have and it’s not much more than the ASIAir. Different folks for different stokes, but getting your head around NINA and problem solving is a vital skillset to develop if you want to do deep sky imaging.
I just bought a MeLE Fanless Mini PC Quieter3Q for use with my second rig. £220 with Win 11 pro installed and not too slow. Quite impressed so far.
I’ve been using a mele quieter2 for around a year now. Runs Nina, sharpcap, phd without issue. Wi-Fi reaches far enough in my backyard so I can RDP into it with my laptop or phone.
I see no reason to change anything. It works perfectly for what i want out of it
@@danielgunther8987 I have the same; added a travel router; connects to my Lenovo carbon X laptop without any hassles. I avoid proprietary equipment like ZWO's and find the Eagle to be quite expensive.
I also have a Mele Q3 with an added router so the mini-pc runs on its own wifi network. So far very good. I can run remotely on a pc, mac or ipad width rdclient.
I bought for the same purpose Beelink T4 on Atom CPU, it cost near 80$.
I have installed Ubuntu 22.04 on it with Kstars/Ekos/libindi. For connecting to desktop I use VNC from smartphone.
That's what I did a year ago and right to imaging anything better. I added a 1TB NvMe and a High Gain USB Antenna. Running Windows 11 and Windows Remote Desktop with Nina and livestacking with Pixinsight. 🎉
I was shown the ASIAIR on the weekend. Slick! I too had gone the route of PC/laptop with all the programs and drivers and the updates that impact the drivers etc. My current laptop is starting the age, over 15 years old, and really not looking forward of have to install and debug all over again. I did order the ASIAIR on Monday and am looking forward to renewing my interest in the hobby!
My home setup is two Astro Physics mounts....one for 11" SCT Hyperstar and the other for a 6" APO refractor. I run wireless through Sky Safari and another wireless for auto focus. Camera are full frame SBIG cameras with motorized filter wheel on one for LRGB and NB on one and one shot color on the other. This runs from a Windows 10 laptop and a host of software such as Maxim DL, Photo Shop, etc. Needless to say this is a serious setup for imaging and very capable. My travel setup was mostly similar but a little stripped down until recently when I went with ZWO AM5, EAF, ZWO camera for imaging in OSC and all run from ASI AIR Plus. I can transport the entire camera, scope, etc. as one complete assembly with my 80mm APO scope. All I have to do is put that assembly on my tripod, attach three thumb screws and plug in the battery power supply. I can have it cooling the camera and polar aligned in less than 10 minutes and than imaging.
In short that new ZWO setup has revolutionized my imaging from remote locations. Before I would nave consider doing remote imaing if I only have one night....possibly two due to the large amount of gear. Now I often just go out one night and can easily get a few targets with out any issue....and it yields really excellent images. The big scopes and cameras can do a lot that the light setup can't....especially when I want to image at high focal lengths.....supposedly the AM5 is best when used with less than 1000mm focal length scopes....although many are finding success with longer focal lengths....I intend to do more testing of this now that our weather is finally warming up here in Michigan. In particular I want to see how it works with my 8" SCT Hyperstar setup which should be amazing for a travel setup. The images I get are later processed in Photo Shop. Like mentioned in the video....I wish the EAF had an option to switch back to manual focus although truthfully I haven't found that to be that important since I do have the manual paddle to refocus electronically.
I think that ZWO has indeed launched the next step in technology for the AMATEUR astronomer to make it easier, more logical, and user friendly. IS it the answer to the one thing that can do everything....no....frankly in my observatory I much prefer my laptop and all the various software packages I use to gain more verastiliity.....but I think that ZWO will launch new revisions that will most likely add even more features but the existing product is pretty well thought out.
I just got an ASIAir Plus (32 gB version) about a month ago. I’m using it solely for acquisition in my observatory. Unlike many in forum and FB, my experience with the device has been really positive. Works reliably every time and I don’t have to run my expensive USB repeater cables out for every session. I’m using my ASIAir in station-mode so I’m also able to connect to it as a mapped network drive from my W10Pro laptop. Courtesy of a shell script I’m able to transfer files from the ASIAir to the laptop so they’re ready for processing the following day. The Eagle looks real nice but that price tag is a bit intimidating. Really enjoyed the review Nico!
Very good video. Great Siril shirt.
Fantastic as always Nico. I started with a laptop, like you, and still use it for my setup in my astronomy shed which I can also connect remotely with Chrome Remote Desktop. However, for my frontyard and driveway setups or offsite I am ASIAIR all the way. It is so simple to use and it just works - no connection issues with different software or downloading additional stuff to run things. I have the ASIAIR Pro and the Plus and eventhough I don't need to, I run everthing through a Pegasus Pocket Power Box (or Mini for the new version). I found that if you have a lot of stuff with certain cameras and mounts that sometimes things drop off if you run everything through the ASIAIR, but when using the PPB - no issues. Lastly as far as the WiFi, I use a Wifi Extender (RockSpace) with a 10 meter cable and connect it into the Ethernet port and I can run the ASIAIR in my house. The Plus does have better Wifi than the Pro but it still was not great which is why I still use the extender which works really well. Cheers Kurt
Oh, and the Eagles comes standard with Filippo, the somewhat cult CEO of Primalucelab. “to help youuu explore the universe like a pro” 😀
😄
Thanks for this video. This important information will really help me in deciding where to go with my astrophotography. ❤ I will use my upgraded (with new hard drive) laptop for now but I am looking to upgrade to the ASIAir in the future.
Great video, I have the asiair for when I go to a dark site, and a fan less mini pc that I can Remote Desktop into while I’m at work, but also getting things for a more permanent set up in the backyard and I might have to try the eagle out
Nice video; thanks for the information. I have been a serious amateur photographer most of my life, and I have been trying to get into astrophotography ever since the 2017 solar eclipse. I got distracted for a couple of years due to family health issues and have just recently gotten back to thinking about it. A friend recently gave me an ASIAir for my birthday. It is good to know what I can and can't expect out of it.
Fantastic review Nico, I'm amazed that I've never seen a comparison video between ASIAIR, the Eagle & just a laptop. I must say some of the Eagle computers are insanely expensive given they are fundamentally dedicated astrophotography computers at least you have the flexibility of a laptop to use it for other things too. Great balanced review, thanks.
Good job!
nice work :)
Nice Video summary! I've been using the ASIair since it first came out, using the latest version of the Pro now, and I find it super easy to use. I don't mind being cornered into using ZWO equipment - maybe since I'm a Mac user, and I love systems that are made to work seamlessly together, and the ASIair certainly is seamless. I control an EAF focuser, a ZWO 533MC pro camera, a ZWO 120MM guide camera, and my mounts (Takahashi EM200 and EM400) and telescopes with an iPad. It makes image capture totally easy and fun. I also like using their ASI Studio software to process my images, refining the results in photoshop and Lightroom. ZWOs approach and equipment has transformed astrophotography for me!
Dude this was an awesome video. Sending this to so many people who I know are in this predicament at the moment and don't want to fully commit to ZWO.
Have watched this video repeatedly Nico. Has helped my understanding of powering , controlling etc . the rig .
One thing I would like to see tho is a complete walk thru of all cable connections from source voltage ( house AC / power. Bank ) to all devices . I think it would go a long way in showing us noobies best practices for connections.
Great video. Been debating for a long time over this. Ended up acquiring an AsiAir Plus that works extremely well, ....but had to purchase an EAF as my Essato focuser from Primalucelab does not work with AsiAir, ....a pity I could not use the later. So in line with your comments, in the ZWO ecosystem, the AsiAir option is a fantastic and no headache option to get great results (using a BORG 90mm and Avalon Zero mount), just not superflexible as soon as you want to step out of their ecosystem. So when I am tired of the current set up and really want to install the Essato, will probably eventually jump onto an Eagle (the PRimalucelab Playsoftware will hopefully be more complete by then, if is still missing today some critical functions that AsiAir offers).
ZWO for the win. Its made astrophotography so much better for me. Going from the standalone skywatcher synguider (which i still think is fine) to my full zwo setup (apart from the am5 mount that i want!!!) Its made everything so much easier to use it remotely on those cold winter nights, when i can go inside for a warmup brew and still watch the subs rolling in.
Also great video Nico👍👍👍
The Eagle's pricetag is very very steep for what you get.
Thank you.
Cool stuff! I use 2 of these setups (mini pc and Asiair) , but I also use Raspberry pi with Astroberry OS. To be fair, I only use it, because it's light and small and supports my non ZWO hardware, but the Kstars platform really needs a facelift and to be more user friendly.
Hi Nico, great comparison video as always! I wonder how the newly arrived Stellarmate Pro compares to ASIAIR Plus and Eagle... Clear skies!
Great review Nico. I really enjoyed the video. When I first dove headfirst into this hobby 2 years ago, your channel was one of my top ones to follow. Keep up the amazing work. When I first started out, I had an overall vision of using a wireless hub to control everything. The ASI Air seemed to be the best solution. But as mentioned in your video, the ASI Air is limited to ZWO devices only. If you have a QHY camera, it will not work with an ASI Air. If you have a motorized flat panel system, it will not work. Early on, I was fortunate enough to find a sweet deal on an Eagle IV Pro with 480gb SSD which I later upgraded to 2tb ;). I am very much a big fan. Yes, I know there is a huge price difference. However, there is so much more freedom with an Eagle. I use my Eagle for acquisition AND processing. Because it is a computer with Windows, any type of software can be loaded on it. Also, the Eagle conveniently mounts nicely on the telescope and is amazing for cable management. Connecting wirelessly with my MacBook Pro is a breeze and a game changer when operating my rig from inside my apartment. One big advantage worth noting. Because the Eagle is a stand-alone computer, it offers the speed and performance like one as well. When connected via Remote Desktop, the Eagle can run complicated processes in Pixinsight. At the same time, I can switch back to my MacBook Pro to work on other CPU intensive tasks without performance being affected. With like any hobby, one expands its equipment over time. Having the Eagle early on has been the "stable-horse" in my gear. I am local to Woodland Hills Camera & Telescopes. They are a PrimaluceLabs dealer and the source for all my Eagle accessories. If one is concerned with PLL support, they are easily accessible in the US. Tom with PLL is AWESOME.
Such an excellent video Nico, very very well done, and I can imagine how much work went into this video!
Also blast from the past with SGP :-)
And now I want the EYE!! I wonder if it could be connected via ASCOM and the fits headers written into NINA - such a great way to weigh or reject subs!
Also, hint for any M1 or M2 macs users with external monitors: if you experience lag with remote desktop, turn off the hardware acceleration in the remote desktop client!
Thanks Cuiv! Yes, my understanding is PrimaLuce is working with NINA and SGP devs to make it easy to incorporate the data from the various EAGLE sensors into those programs. I also had that thought: the EYE readings could be useful in stacking if we could somehow weight subs that way. Probably would only be truly useful once there was a completely automated workflow for it with SFS/WBPP support as well.
when I connect my ECCO to NINA (in the weather tab via ASCOM) it pick ups and shows the EYE data.
Ah, nice. I didn't have an ECCO for this review. Can you store that data using NINA? or just display it?
@@NebulaPhotos I will check, I installed the metada plugin and will try later today
@@xMemn0nx Thanks!
A belated thanks, Nico, for this excellent equipment comparison. My home is surrounded by old growth oak trees, so I must travel a bit for a safe open sky (sadly Bortle 8) site.
Therefore, as I expand my astro journey, I've embraced ZWO's continuity with the ASIAIR Plus, EAF, 183MC camera (got cheap), and a Svbony guide scope/camera on an Astro-tech AS60 EDP and EQ modded Skywatcher mount with the excellent WO latitude base. I haven't tried ASIAIR control of the Svbony camera yet, fingers crossed.
Meanwhile, a friend and I use our SeeStars and are learning Siril for post-processing images.
I must look to see how your observatory is coming along...very exciting! Trevor had one until he moved. Luke built a very nice one with a computer station and studio. Best of luck to you, Michael
In the same category as the ASIAir is a Raspberry Pi 4 running Stellarmate or Astroberry. The Astroberry has the same functionality as Stellarmate but is free and a little more DIY. Unlike the ASIAir, both will work with just about any camera or accessory.
Also any number of "micro pc" like the mele quieter 2/3. Well its sort of a hybrid between the asi air and laptop since it's roughly the same size as the asi air, but runs windows.
I use my iPad to run the ASI app and it's great. I can walk around the house but still keep an eye on my imaging session.
Being new in Astro, I can only id Orion, North Star, and the Dippers constellation. I was a corporate IT guy with a computer for sale retail shop owner in the 90s.
I just learned about Eagle products as a newbie; thanks. It looks nice but expensive. It is a middle choice that may not be helpful in this hobby of mine. I have many hobbies already🙂.
The easy: ZWO value/convenience setup (plus travel). Out of the door and go.
The complex - spend all your time in one hobby: Extreme PC setup w drivers, best-of-breed hardware and software, and a lot of research time.
The small Star party I attended last night in Arizona. The complex rig with PC barely had time to set up and then needed to tear down almost as soon as the party was over. The Library loaned out Celestron C8 goto rig and other big manual DOB had the most fun in the social setting with many newcomers asking questions. So the PC-based system doesn't land well in this environment. The owners try to get it set up while new people are asking questions; stressful if you ask me. The ZWO ASIAir rigs took a little time to set up but wow, the newcomers with colorful nebula in front of their eyes in a few minutes.
After three months of UA-cam and internet research, I pick the ZWO wall garden. A Celestron C6 and AM5 for ease of use and travel rig, thinking it could serve me many years of causal astro activities and parties. It would be best if you always had a light and easy setup for travel anyway. If I stay in the hobby long and am interested in expanding to a stationary home base. I will go with a discreet PC hardware route with 3rd party software. I will have plenty of space and time to spend on the hobby. One can skip the setup using free Google Chrome Desktop remote control and view back to the home system at any social setting. I can command the rig to record images anywhere on Earth with an internet connection.
I'm very happy with the ASI Air Plus. I do wish they would open up to other products though. Also, I still use a laptop for my high frame rate imaging, as the Plus cannot achieve the same rates. I cannot imagine spending that much on the Primaluce.
The ASIAIR can be set to store the subs while livestacking so you can do the stacking yourself later (with better control). There is also a basic stacking added in Lunar / Solar / Planetary and DSO modes.
I know it can save the subs while live stacking, but what I meant was: can it save fully calibrated subs to the Asiair on the fly using calibration masters stored on the device? If it can, I couldn’t figure out how to do that
@@NebulaPhotos Ah... now I understand. I think it cannot do that indeed. I have been using ASIAIR since 2019 and I must admit I have never used the live mode. I read many people use live mode - storing the individual subs - but I tend to only use Plan mode for my Deepsky projects. I don't usually babysit my mounts so there is no added benefit for me to use live mode. Also, I am convinced stacking using Siril will give me superior results over the live stacking of the ASIAIR.
Thank you Nico: you just explained why I could not transfer images using the USB C port to my Mac!
Thank you Niko. I use the Eagle 4 Pro for my planetary imaging. It's far faster than the ASIAIR in capturing high speed videos without dropping precious frames which equates to details on the planet's disk. I may upgrade to the Eagle 5 Pro to get the industrial chips and i7 processor. Super great review
I have two ASIAIR Pluses. One for my Star Adventurer tracker which has been a game changer. From polar alignment, to plate solving, to push-to object location it just works. I normally use a Samsung tablet to run it and it lasts all night with the display on the whole time. Strictly ZWO cameras/hardware along with my T5i. The 2nd ASIAIR is on my 8" LX200 classic. I'm using an EAF for focus with a 3d printed adapter and it works quite well. So both of this rigs are ZWO ecosystem.
For my G11 mount that I used for imaging, photometry and spectroscopy. I have Beelink mini computer to run NINA and mostly ASCOM with my ATIK and SBIG cameras, Moonlight focuser, etc.. I run this via remote desktop from my windows desktop/processing computer.
The ASIAIR works a treat in station mode, and I can control my mounts outside from anywhere in my house. Even though the ASIAIR only has 32GB of EMMC storage it really isn't an issue as I can just enter the IP address into a file browser on my desktop computer and drag and drop files from the ASIAIR to my main computer via WIFI and then remotely delete the files on the EMMC after transfer. I've never felt the need to add an SDCard or USB stick.
The Eagle looks to be a really impressive system, and if I were to have a completely remoted observatory I really think I would seriously consider that.
Thanks Nico for the great review. I always look forward to your videos so just signed up on Patreon.
Hi Nico, great and comprehensive review! A while ago I decided to go with an outdoor-capable laptop which I connect to remotely from a large screen PC indoors. The laptop mainly to have a display next to the telescope for polar alignment. How do you do this with the headless options?
I started with a laptop a Star Adventurer and my camera and graduated to the ASIAIR Plus last year.
The Eagle has a lot of features which are really cool but I think that it goes a step beyond my current needs with the setup ASIAIR - 294MC Pro and EQ6 Mount.
My big SCT is out for repairs right now so I am using my friends Z61 and processing with PI.
I think that issue with internal memory is overstated since thumb drives are so cheap. I rarely shoot on internal memory - only when I forget to set it back to USB storage.
I could see in the future where I may run short on open USB or power connectors, but nothing is future proof.
My opinion.
Wish you had also looked at the minipc's like the Mele Quieter3 (even if it needs the pegasus for power management). Fantastic device!
Ditto
+1 to this.
As Joh Hackett pointed out you are free to use the iPad as your control device for the ASIAIR. There is one caution: If your iPad does not have a GPS chip (cellular version), and you are away from WiFi signals for the iPad to use to determine GPS coordinates, you will need to know what your latitude/longitude is, and input those coordinates in order for the app to work correctly. You will get a warning from the app that it was unable to update GPS location, and you will have an opportunity to input those values.
Great video! Started with a Laptop ASI software and also ASCOM drivers/NINA . Moved to ASI AIR. Especially now that it's WIFI is fixed, great astrophotography process-functionality VERY SIMPLE only Stellina might be simplier. Don't agree with your comment on processing. ASIAIR can process images. I used it and it works. Not quite as good as proprietary programs, especially for DSO. Frankly think using ASIAIR to process planetary images is easier than fussing with Autostakkert, PIPP, and/or Registax to get something planetary done.
What I leaned from this video is something I totally missed: that I can run ASIAIR app on my Apple silicone, 21 hour battery, laptop. I was waiting for android emulators to run, but alas they don’t. So I just tried and it is amazing to use ASIAIR app directly on the newer macs… I have an astronomy-dedicated windows laptop, but I don’t use it it in the field due to its poor battery life. So laptop used only at home for special projects (e.g. satellite tracking, comet timelapses, etc.). But otherwise, only ASIAIR… in field, ASIAIR. Very low battery consumption. Very easy to control, and now thanks to this new info, controlled from laptop.
Mini pc and Pegasus Powerbox is the sweet and flexible middle ground.
Great video. I use a Lenovo T 490 with an i7 processor and 8 gig of RAM. I move the images off the ThinkPad to process on a separate tower running an i9 with 32 gig of RAM and 4 TB of storage for Deep Sky Stacker, Light Room, Photo Shop, etc. The ThinkPad runs SharpCap 4, NINA, PHD2, etc. I find the flexibility worth the effort. Cabling is an issue especially with the USB3 cables. You have to be careful how you set it all up. My rig is a WO FL91, with a .8 flattener and ZWO ASI 533 color camera. All that sits on a Losmandy GM811G. Power is an issue outside my backyard, but since I am a ham radio operator I have Lithium Iron Phosphate 12v 100Ah batteries that will last for a week or more in the field before they need recharging. Again, great video and much appreciated.
Very well explained! I have to chose between second hand asiair mini and the eagle core which have been used only for demonstration, both in about the same price range. Which one would you advice me to buy?
ASIAIR is an affordable option that I enjoy using, takes a lot of the pain out of things. Nothing wrong with going “all in” on an item.
Not on an item but on a company. The moment you want to upgrade to something not ZWO, you will wish they would take their heads out of their asses and allowed equipment connection through ASCOM.
Thanks for a great overall comparison of strengths and weaknesses of these systems.
Cuiv has a video up now on the AstroPC Pro which essentially answers the need for a budget non-ZWO centric system running on Windows 10 Pro.
I believe that while the Eagle is a wonderful device, they have chosen to snub the wider market only developing products which once properly cabled are well above the budget of 80% of hobbyists.
The Eagle4/5 seem like great all-in-one for a dedicated observatory, that is actually less true for a multi mount observatory except where perhaps individual owners control each mount and desire the flexibility. An observatory control system would handle the general aspects of dome/door control as well as permanent mounted sky quality measuring devices. Mini-PCs at each mount can be monitored just as easily with a master computer onsite/offsite as with Eagle's X software.
The elephant in the room for the Eagle to me is the wiring headache of what is essentially a multi-armed cable octopus. Because everything is done from the single box all connectivity has to flow to-from the Eagle creating a massive nightmare. This is where having an ASIAIR or similar small box paired with a Powerbox if necessary can shunt cabling into a more friendly flexibility. Perhaps running a multi-OTA system this might be more helpful, but I'm doubtful.
Thankfully we do now have more choices than a laptop in the field, and maybe in the future ASIAIR will become multi-mfg friendly. I doubt we'll see an Eagle basic anytime as they simply don't care to serve the general hobbyist.
The 4 "12V" outputs can be adjusted individually through it's interface to any voltage, so no need for a step down converter for DSLR/MIRRORLESS cameras.
Great review, Thank you.
AISAIR vs. Astroberry? Considering the ASIAIR is a rasberry pi based, is the Astroberry software any good? Thanks
Nice T-shirt ;)
You really don't need to spend $1600 on a PC setup. I'm using a brand new Samsung laptop (12GB ram + 512GB SSD), which was $700 at Best Buy. Then a 4-port USB 2.0 extender hub over ethernet ($60,) 10m Cat7 ethernet cable ($15), and a bunch of 12v extension and splitter cables ($30.) Plus a regulated 300Wh 12v power bank ($180.) This setup drives a full astrophotography setup - cameras, EAF, EFW, iPolar. So it's under $1k and it includes the battery. The data from ASI2600MM is acquired and stacked on the laptop. And then I process it on a desktop PC. You can go even cheaper if you get one of those mini computers, which cost around $400 for a good one, and then you don't even need a usb extender hub.
Yeah I agree with you. Should have made more clear (mentioned it a bit at the end) that I bought this laptop with the intention to use it for both acquisition and processing which is why it’s that expensive. If I knew I’d buy a desktop PC a couple years later, I wouldn’t have spent that much on the laptop.
Nice video but I think should have included KStars/Ekos on a RaspberryPi as well. It works exceptionally good in combination with a Pegasus Powerbox and is affordable, lightweight and feature-rich. Plus, there will be a StellarMate Pro released later this year. It will be based on a RaspberryPi ComputeModule 4, just like the AsiAir is, but will feature full support of any hardware via INDI. Plus it will have power-management, remote-desktop and the Stellarmate app.
lol I was one of the unfortunate people who found out not to mount the ASI Air on the original location on that AM5... few nights in I crushed and broke all my cables. About two weeks later they released the notice about it haha.
Acting on a hot tip from the owner of our small town's computer store, I fished a Dell laptop out of their garbage dumpster. (It had been discarded because the touch-pad would not work whilst running Windoze.). I put Linux on it and the touch pad worked!
I now run KStars and PHD2 on it for image capture and it works pretty well.
Total cash outlaid for this: $0.00
(and I kept one computer and battery out of our local landfill.)
score!
I went the ZWO route and am all in for their products, but I'm also a guy who operates portable. Great comparison video, thank you.
I currently use APT and or ASI AIR PRO. The Eagle seems interesting to look into. Is there a video or other documetion on the Eagle's software?
The EAF has a hand controller that is handy since there is no clutch, although there is an additional cost associated with it.
I have setup NINA on two Beelink U57 PC's for my buddy who has non-ZWO cameras, focusers and filter wheels. I have ASI Air v1, Pro and Plus. I also built an Astroberry based on Rasp Pi4. The experience with the Astroberry and NINA setup's was very similar requiring a steep learning curve. Many similarities because of similar S/W eg PHD2 and, of course, aimed at achieving the same goals. NINA is clearly more capable than ASI Air but that requires more effort and understanding by the user. Overall, I have had little trouble with my ASI Airs which I connect to either my home network by ethernet cable or to a wifi repeater by cable. The AA is a great product and a joy to use. Very fast setup, Polar Align and scheduling. The NINA PC's had occasional issues (eg losing guidance after after meridian flips) which needed investigation and solutions which took time to solve with the help of the large community. If you can afford to limit yourself to ZWO products the I would recommend the ASIAir route. Otherwise, NINA on PC works fantastically well but requires a respectable level of IT expertise.
I'm curious what is the performance for larger images (my 64mp pics are 129MB) in terms of process and especially offloading them to a network drive over wireless? Is this not an issue getting the images off of the camera because the local flash drive is plenty fast?
I currently use my old asus laptop from like, 10+ years ago. Its slow and ancient so thats about all its good for, running the nexremote. Works for me so i can live stream because i can remote in and also screen grab the renote pc window to show the nexremote interface.
Im considering at some point switching to something like the mele quieter2/3 or maybe an asi air if i can figure out how to add it into my streaming setup to show whats going on.
The ASIAir Ethernet connection is pretty handy in several ways. You can connect the device directly to your home network without the need to change any WiFi settings. So no reconfiguration between use at home and use out in the field is needed. With the ASIAir connected via Ethernet to your local network it shows up as shared network drive and provides fast access to the internal storage and also to external storage plugged in via USB to the ASIAir. If you have an M1 Mac you can even run the ASIAir software on your Mac and gives you all the benefits of a big screen and mouse support. But you can also use your phone or tablet (in the same local network) to control the ASIAir. I have set up a long network cable to my telescope pier in the garden to control everything from inside the house (after PA and focusing).
One issue with the ASIAir is that is does not support the full input voltage range that is shown on the ZWO product page. The rate the input from 9V to 15V (max) but it shuts off already at around 14V. That makes it hard to run it on a 12V LiFePo4 or AGM battery that is fully charged. There are several CloudyNights threads for that already. If you have a regulated 12V power source, all is fine.
I use a mini PC and Pegasus Pocket Powerbox Advance. When I first started AP, I had a Panasonic Lumix G9 and a QHY 5L for guiding. Neither of which is supported by the ASIAir, so it was ruled out. I've looked at the Eagles and my opinion has remained the same: way overpriced, but very cool. Like the ASIAir, they are extremely convenient with all of the ports you need built in. 12V DC, USB, RCA. You also get neat extras like that "Eye", and with the new V5, inclinometer, etc. The biggest downside to me - besides the price premium - is probably what makes it so attractive: the all-in-one design. I like my modular setup. If my mini PC becomes unusable, I can connect my laptop directly and imaging goes on. I can have another mini PC on my doorstep in a few hours (thanks Amazon) for a couple hundred bucks. The "PC" bits of the Eagle go bad? Not so easy a replacement.
Now, don't get me wrong... if somebody gifted me one of those Eagles, I'd very happily use it. I'm just not spending my money on it because I get the functionality I need for a far smaller price tag using modular components. Again... this is what works for ME. I'm not insinuating that you, the reader, have, or should have, the same opinions. If the Eagle (or the ASIAir) works for you, then by all means use it! I fully support WHATEVER devices you choose that will get you under the night skies imaging :)
Hello Nico.
Can you say a few words about new StellarMate X compared to ASIAIR?
I am interested in the support of the PlayerOne cameras and the mosaic mode for photos of the moon and the sun for example.
Worth noting that mini PCs have come a long way, too. Beelink PCs run win 10 and 11, have plenty of drive space (256gb+), USB 2/3, 8gb+ memory, and solid quad-core cpus, wifi and ethernet compatible, and are a fraction of the price of dedicated astro units, as well as being smaller and lighter.
ASI Air APP works great on iPad Pro. You get a big screen with high resolution with the convenience and portability of a tablet. The iPad Pro internal battery will last for 6-8 hours and can easily be augmented with a power bank.
I used a Raspberry Pi4 with EKOS/Kstars for 2 years and it worked very well.
This year I switched to NINA and I run it on a 250€ Mele Quieter 3C with an 80€ 250GB NVME in it's M2 slot to boot Win11 from.
That mini-PC is fast enough, even for FireCapture, and easy to control over WiFi/RDP.
The ASIAIR does allow some limited post processing now, you can stack with calibration frames and save the result. It is limited in total power output though and not supporting non zwo devices (while in their own interest) can be limiting. I run mine via a windows laptop via blustacks but also run a small tablet in parralell to monitor the output. If this is next to the tv you can, for instance, see clouds have rolled in and stop the session.
Do you know if you can save the calibrated subs or just the result? I couldn't figure that out.
Very interesting and informative comparison, thanks. I wonder how many utilise or realise the value of the Ethernet ports on their control hardware for direct wired control? Ethernet can operate over hundreds of feet allowing control from indoors without the vaguries of wi-fi causing conne tion issues. My own solution is using USB over Ethernet where the mount, cameras, Pegasus Power Box Micro connect into a StarTech USB 2.0 hub and utilise a Cat 6 Ethetnet cable in conduit under the garden. Limitation is sharing the 480MB data transfer over USB but no issues with ASI533, guide camera, mount and Pegasus unit all working.
Thanks for the video, Nico! I think one alternative that you haven't looked enough at is the raspberry. Your comparison of raspberry with an intel stick wasn't fair for the stick :D
I run raspberry with a pegasus powerbox. Raspberry offers the same wifi connectivity features as ASI, and if you install indie server on it you can manage all your gear remotely from your favourite software that supports indie drivers - no Remote Desktop needed. This setup is more mobile than the laptop setup, you don't lock yourself into ZWO, and it costs $100 + powerbox
Thanks Anton. Yes, I want to do a followup to this looking at all the Raspberry Pi and Linux-based options out there. I thought about including something here, but it was already a lot of work for me to learn the ASIair and Eagle, and compare those to what I was used to (the laptop).
@@NebulaPhotos Looking forward for a video where you bust a myth that you need Windows to do astrophotography :) Few years back that might have been the case, but not today, I think
I have a Meie Quieter2 mini PC that has been rock solid for 12 months - 4 usb ports, ethernet, expandable storage. I use an Ioptron mount that has both power and usb ports so I dont need the Powerbox.
I just got an Asiair plus 256 about 10 days ago as I'm building an ultra-portable setup with my spacecat.. next to that I was using a laptop for my main setup for many years, however I have changed to a mini-pc about a year ago or so. I do also use the TPlink AC750 router for that mini-pc setup (as it's also portable - FSQ85 on an Avalon M-zero) and this ensures me being able to connect when I'm somewhere other than at home. Given I still own a couple of non-ZWO cameras (QSI and Atik mono-CCD's), there is 0% chance that I will fully go to the Asiair for my regular rig.
The Eagle has been interesting to me for quite a lot of years already, however the pricepoint has always been a bit too high in my opinion. I have multiple primalucelabs things (sesto senso autofocuser, mounting rings for my FSQ, dovetail plates etc.) and I like them in general, but couldn't push myself to get an Eagle yet.
ive been running 2 eagle at my remote site for a couple of years now. amazing products but do have hiccups here and there and def not a PC that can handle software processing .. otherwise superb and with the price its = laptop + powerbox
I've switched to using mini PC (Beelink is fine), and a WandererAstro power box, about half the price of pegasus .... and all sorts of other brands for cameras, rotators, focusers, etc
I've been pretty happy with a relatively inexpensive (about $180) miniPC hanging off of my tripod. I do have a small monitor. and bluetooth keyboard/mouse attached for setup, but I then I retire to my office computer using Chrome Remote Desktop. Both computer and monitor will run off of 12V should I ever want to go to the boonies. I'm tempted to get an ASIAIR, but I use my own homebrew Arduino/Ascom-based focuser setup (Myfocuser Pro). ZWO wake up and open your unit to other components, too!
thanks for the review. personally I use "astroberry" as a software solution on raspberry pi because provides more flexability in the accessories with basically the core software of KStars/Indi drivers. I have linux experience so is good solution at no cost for the software and just require the raspberry pi hardware. does not provide power management.
Well done, Nico, as always! I guess I will wait till someone, one day, will brake the ASIAIR blocking connectivity of other devices, letting us use these, not only ZWO. ASIAIR software is by far the best, cheapest, more intuitive, stable remote solution. I´ve tested Astroberry and Stellarmate but without having the same feedback as ASIAIR. Eagle is a very good alternative, but much more expensive, unfortunately.
If money is no object these are all good options. An alternative worth considering , for DIYers and "brand adverse" folks, is $160 or so for one of many new fast Mini PCs coupled with a travel router velcro'd to it. My total spend. Yields an Astro-LAN and powerful machine to remotely control everything up to a 100 foot range (with any or all of the best open source astro SW one could want to use or do actually use). Rock solidly. One very good "how to" do this is online. Simply another way...
I know that you had issues with the stick computer, but a 4th option that many people use is a NUC computer with N.I.N.A.
While it’s a bit harder to learn, anyone that’s very comfortable in a Windows environment (power user) even without strong Astrophotography knowledge would catch on quick. They’re inexpensive, less so even than the Asiair. The software is free and adapts to most any equipment. Power distribution would still be an issue though.
Thank you from a newbie and not very competent computer man. I have been using ASIAir for a year but thinking on going over to NINA. I built a pier with cover on my back yard and connected with a 40m network cable with RJ45 connectors to my router and desktop indoor. I use BlueStacks in Windows. Do I need to set up a mini PC close to the pier and install everything on that one or could I do that on my desktop indoor? Is there any other way to connect with cable from the pier to my desktop where I have all SW?
You probably have seen some, but the latest generation of Intel N100/N305 CPUs are amazing in performance and are rather low in power consumption, while also being very cheap. There are some models which supports PD power in, meaning you can use conventional USB battery to power them.
Nice comparison Nico.
I think your conclusion is right, they all are three different kinds of usage.
It would be worth though including in this comparison a solution I find more powerful than Asiair and cheaper than Eagle : The mini Pcs like Mele quieter 3. I have two of them on two different rigs, with a Pegasus PPBA. It is still way cheaper than an Eagle, and you have access to all it can offer, for a compact size.
The advanced sequencer in NINA is a thing you don't want to quit once you've tested it. I can have quite complex sequences, while making live stack, hopping from target to target with stellarium, and remotely controlling all that stuff from my house. I even added improved range usb wifi antenna, and the range is wonderful.
Once all configured ( what is quite time consuming the first day I must admit), I never had any connection issue, any bug or whatsoever.
But for a quick grab n shoot no-brainer setup, the asiair is definitely a thing to consider
Fine video -- but by far the biggest thing I was excited about was learning I could run all my IOS apps, especially the ASIAIR, on my Mac. Cool! It also seems that you can run them from both the Mac and an iPad/Phone at the same time, which is good since my mac (Studio) is not so portable as a laptop.
It is very slick! You are going to love it.
It's great, I run the AIR+ from my macbook .... but only with the newer M* chips
Have you actually tried getting the ASIAIR work on BlueStacks? The last time i tried (some months ago) i failed because the ASIAIR APP recognized being used on BlueStacks and refused to start 😞
Great Video ! Would you consider doing a comparison between the ASIAir and the new StellarMate X (which has just been released) ? Cheers/SRK
I would be interested as well.
Yes, I'm very interested in that new StellarMate X - I might compare that to a Mele MiniPC that lots of people are recommending in a future video.
@@NebulaPhotos There is a StellarMate Pro coming out in June in a similar form factor the AsiAir Plus
Very interesting post again. I bought an Eagle LE last year and used it just to control my camera, filter wheel and focuser remotely and have been very happy with it. the main complaint I have is that it can take up to five attempts to fully connect. One good thing is that if the WiFi connection drops out during imaging data capture, guiding etc is not affected. I am in the process of setting it up for EQASCOM so I can control my EQ6 R PRO Mount as well. I also find the smart phone app is a bit fiddly to use and usually use the laptop. I believe also PLL market a smaller (and less expensive) unit specifically for controlling DSLRs.
Very interesting comparison although laptops can be picked up really cheap these days from eBay which have plenty of power to capture images. I do like the ASI Air but I won't be tied into one product as I shoot using an Altair 26C camera which is £600 cheaper than a 2600MC pro yet it can do pretty much everything that can do it even has the same sensor. I love the Eagle but it's a bit to rich for my wallet.
As you said, the ASIAir is working based on INDI drivers. Unfortunately they want you to only user their products. I personally use Astroberry on a Raspberry Pi 4. Since it is a linux system it is not as easy as the ASIAir but spares me issues with windows as an OS. Astroberry is not as easy as using the ASIAir but I can run my hole system including roll off roof. Also in the beginning the RP4 was quite inexpensive, Astroberry itself does cost nothing so at least in the beginning it probably was the best budget option. So be aware there are other options as well. All is just depending on your preferences.
I like the Siril logo t-shirt
I just like the ASIAIR ease of use, i was super bummed they didn't have compatibility with other company cameras, do I paid the money for a ZWO guide cam, and using a DSLR that's compatible, will in the future be getting the EAF anyway haha so really the ASIAIR plus is a good fit for me, life and money permitting i will one day build a big rig and i will most likely go PC to run it
12V (DC) Lead Acid -> 230V (AC) -> 19V (DC) or what ever voltage you notebook needs, is really in effizient! Just use a DC-DC step up converter and solder on a charging cable.
Of cause newer USB-C PD powered devices you can just buy a USB-PD car charger with 60w or so.
I'm not sure if this is old news or not - but I purchase dummy batteries that are marketed towards video people. They come with a D-tap connector, which is a video standard that is 12V. I cut off the D-tap connector and solder on whatever connector I need. The battery assembly takes care of the voltage regulation so the camera gets the correct voltage. I don't think that those dummy batteries cost any more than the "normal" ones. Maybe give them a try.