WHY YOU SHOULDNT MIG WELD THICK STEEL
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2022
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We are looking at a 20 plus year old bush hog . I'd say the factory weld on the spindle hub held up pretty good given it's working environment .
Dude , I fabricate pressure vessels . Many of the bodies I weld are 3/4”-1”1/2 inches thick . Bevel the areas such as seems take many (3-4) passes to complete. Welding lifting lugs to four inch thick plate takes a lot of heat . We weld at 250-275 amps. The lugs are beveled to allow several passes to fill in and build the weld to finish with a minimum of three step levels as the final passes . Many applications can’t be mig welded such as seams on ships where stick welder with proper tensile strength rods . Heat is your friend when welding thick steel.
Like I always tell people, get a job welding things that have to be leak tested and you will become ' good '
Especially ' dime stackers ' .
I agree. Technique, relatively adequate equipment and know how, are more important than process. Mig is capable as any other process in the right hands
I am not a welder but really enjoy your welding videos including testing out the less expensive welders for DIYers. Thanks for the videos.
My Lincoln Power Mig 350 begs to differ.
Well, structural MIG is certainly a thing, but it does take the right settings and technique. MIG is kind of deceptive in that you can end up with a visually okay weld if you don't really examine it, and it holds for a while, but it isn't properly fused just like you said.
That's where knowing exactly what you're doing and how to do it comes into play... or you can just go grab the easier option if you're not welding a building or a bridge together and instead just use stick like a normal person, or if you happen to have gas shielded flux wire setup, use that.
For the average guy tinkering, MIG isn't for thick metal unless it's specifically set up to do that with the proper everything.
What allot of people don’t realize about MIG welding with solid wire is that you can short arc or spray, but in between those transfer methods is globular which is unacceptable and responsible for most non fusion. To put it simply you have to understand what your doing and not just be able to make a pretty weld
I learned so much about welding from your videos years ago. I still use the Everlast I bought from you.
Can be done with MIG without issue, in my experience FCAW with duel shield powered by a 3 phase machine will get it done as long as the operator knows what he is doing
The parent material failed ot the toe of the weld because of the HAZ. It's a common problem with any welding process.
Exactly what I was thinking
The weld failure started at the center of the weld though, that's literally textbook weld failure
@@jonathangarzon2798 it may have started in the crater because of lack of fill but it didn’t crack all the way down the center of the weld it traveled to the haz. And really can’t say for sure it didn’t start at the toe and wind up in the crater
Technique and knowing what you’re doing is more important than the core method, but it’s not built until it’s overbuilt or at least broken several times and re-engineered each time for less breakage
Don't say MIG welding is the problem, the wire they used is the problem.
Anything structural over 3/8 should be a dual shield wire with straight CO2, or inner shield for the farmers and DIY guys out there.
You can weld thicker with the, well I call it bare wire, copper colored wire that you use mix gas with and leaves no flux behind. Can't remember the technical name.
Anyways you have to preheat the metal before you weld or use a pulse machine, and even then it's never as good as a dual shield wire with straight CO2. People use mix gas with dual shield but I've found over the years it makes the weld too brittle and is a little harder to weld with because it doesn't always want to "wet" both pieces your trying to stick together.
If you want good wire to start with try some Hobart excelarc 71 in .045 and CO2, good for general repairs. It can be turned down enough for 1/4" but it might be a little tricky running verticals that thin. But the bare wire can take care of that.
I have the same welding lid. I would use E71-T .045" dual shield wire with 75/25 Ar/Co2. I do a lot of heavy equipment repair and so far this has held up well.
That was my thought as well; built 120 ton and up mining equipment using 0.54 E71-T
The other thing you never mentioned was the weld ended right on the corner. So not only was the crater there but also a stressor being on the corner. An easy fix is to run the weld around the corners before ending the weld.
Hmmmm better not get too close to train tracks then i welded train cars for years with a mig welder as do most shops at this point
You probably used Flux core wire..
Most cracks I see like that on farm equipment look like a rust thru issue of the parent metal. I see it mainly on thinner stuff, and areas that may not have been painted properly after welding.
It really depends on the composition of the wire being used and also if the welding machine has the amps to penetrate the steel if thick U have to crank it up also some pre heat of the steel helps out big time as long as you don't exceed the interpass temperature 🤟
Glad to see your back.
Good to see you!
Using Dual shielded wire is MIG welding . It’s just a different type of metal transfer across the arc . On thicker metals this is a very common type of MiG welding in heavy industries.
Set it up to spray weld and it will penetrate deep enough for thicker material.
Lol I thought you were gonna show me a weld that was more like 5 months, maybe a year old. Not some ancient ass plate lol. The weld didn't look bad. You should see the garbage welds local fabricators, even big shot trailer manufacturers in Texas (my pj trailer) let go out the shop. Not everything could last forever, and it simply broke. It didn't just rip off the plate. Cmon man!
I used 311 ;.065 inner shield on structural iron with a beveled edge 2 inch flange and never had any problems
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wow, very nice to see this channel again after so many years - I completely agree with why you left and all the reasons of what was going on. 100%. I feel like you're a family member after watching all of your videos for so many years. thanks for posting all these back up for people to learn from - it's a decade of valuable information .
I get a box that says "this chat is no longer accessible" for the tractor hoarders group chat.
You should tell them about crater fill on the welder. Back stepping will also stop the low crater.
That has always been a problem that I deal with. Making sure it’s hot enough to bond and not burn through the steel you’re trying to weld too. Thin metal always seems to be very difficult
The point is to reduce the use of plastic and help the environment, it suck but I think it only helps very little
I just subscribed. I was with you when you were Chucky1986 or something like that? This stuff is REAL WORLD WELDING! I repair trash containers and garbage trucks etc.. this video today is great info. I would however like just a little more info on the wire you are using and sounds like no shielding gas? And are you preheating with a torch? I would use your info directly on my next weld in the cold weather on some equipment.
Preheat is your friend. I've taken rectangular chunks of steel weighing upwards of 500,000#, 5 ft thick cracked right in half, and made them one solid chunk of metal again. Sometimes MIG, sometimes stick. Preheat. 👍
I usually agree with what you show but in this case I can't. I not only work in the towing industry as a senior design engineer but I fabricate on the side as well. At work, all we use is MIG on our hitches with testing exceeding a 38,000 lb rating. At home I've welded up to 1" thick bar on a Cat endloader and it twisted the whole frame when the one cylinder failed, not the welds.
The problem your showing in the video was definently from cold weld with the wire not hitting the base plate.
Mig welding is just as strong as stick if it’s done right
It's that if done right part. The one method I was taught was weld think to thin. Got turned into largest thermal mass to least. Chuck something taught me that I think.
Not short circuit it’s fine on thinner material but it doesn’t have the heat to fully penetrate the thick stuff were stick will.. if you actually read short circuit wire it will say not to use on anything thicker than 5/16.
I've worked as an OEM engineer for large construction and age equipment for over 30 years. Welded large track trenchers, drill rigs, combines, etc. frames that are several inches thick. Everything is welded with MIG, maybe a little sub-arch, but anything with volume will be one or the other. Stick welding just really isn't used in production. I hardly use it at home either, always use the MIG.
Yeah most companies don't actually care about doing things right just fast.
Can't be a multimillionaire company without killing a few dozen clients and workers through willful negligence bud
you sound ill informed.
@@jonathangarzon2798 So stick is the only “right” way?
If done right, Mig is absolutely a good way to weld things. no doubt.
Lol you want daddy to come weld that?😂😂😂
There is a lot of heavy equipment that was built with a wire feed.
I've welded materials up to a foot thick on some jobs. Granted, we were using 600 amp machines, and 16th diameter wire at a minimum. We beveled until we couldn't bevel any further, and sometimes spent weeks welding one component to go into a massive hydraulic sheer or press break. Tell that story about not being able to weld heavy steel to somebody else! You young guys have either been mislead in your training or you just don't have the experience yet!
nice, the thickest I've ever welded was 6" base plates for a rollercoaster - med carbon steel - had to spend 4 hrs with propane torches to preheat. burned up a lot of gloves on that job. 5/64 Nr232 wire
Upper couplers on semi trailers! “King pins” 800amp millers. With 1/8” iron core wire! Hot and heavy.
I was gonna say lol I know of 9 axle trailers that are entirely welded together. Bevel, preheat if necessary and use MIG or SMAW 🤔
here in the Netherlands we are thaugth about that in welding school.
Apparently this guy doesn't know that you weld almost anything with mig that you can stick. He apparently didn't know that the big commercial welders are mig also. Granted, you find that type of a welder on a farm, generally. Just need the proper equipment and knowledge/skills for the job.
For the average Joe would it be better to tackle something like this with Stick?
Yeah, run a 6010 hot root pass and then a couple 7018 beads to cap it off
@@JohnWheels : Except most “average Joe’s” don’t have a welder that will run 6010. Flux Core is Way Underrated!
@@markashlock9017 True, but I have a cheap YesWelder machine that runs it just fine on 240. I won't on 120 though
@@markashlock9017 that’s not regular fluxcore… he used dual shield which is wayyy hotter and stronger you could also just run 7018 on it and skip the 6010 if you didn’t have a machine that can run 6010
Chuck : you shouldn’t mig weld thick steel
Also chuck : proceeds to mig weld thick steel
😂
chucke is on youtube again?
Good for learners. Thank you Bro.
Depending on the consumables being used. If your using E7018 stick electrode or E70s-3 MiG wire or even E71-t all them have a 70.000 psi tensile strength. MiG welding is used for thick metal in many industries. It all depends on amperage and if you Mig at 125 amps or Stick at 125 amps and use 70,000 psi rod or wire it’s the same strength of a weld. So if your talking about a 120v homeowner mig you can still get away with welding up to 1/2 plate with the right bevel and prep. I have done many many times.
The mode of transfer is different the reason a stick and tig weld is stronger is because its not a short circuit short circuit mig welding is literally creating a dead short everytime you weld something they have corrected this over the years this is where the invention of spray transfer welding and dualshield fluxcore have came from because they dont short circuit like a normal short circuit mig process does
That looks more like a Design, structural failure than a process failure.
that's why i only stick weld
Is this our man, or someone recycling his content?
6010 and buckets full of amps should sort it.
👍
I came for the comments from the mig monkeys who get down right pissed when they get reminded that they didn’t learn how to stick or tig. It’s always a good time.
Nothing wrong with welding thick metal that deck isn't very trhick and that experiences a ton of vibration and shock loads so that being said mig welding it if you know what you are doing will work just fine and is actually just as strong as say 7018 stick welds ect. Actually some mig wire results in welds being stronger it's all in the prep work and if you're doing it right !! I've welded thicker steel than that with mig and have had absolutely no issues!! But i do agree it looks to have started in the crater but had someone known what they were doing they would have taken the weld around the corner and overlapped the starts n stops !!
It's prep. And with thicker stuff it's multiple passes. That's it. Stick welding okay. But Meg would be my choice for that material
Chucky I like your videos and have been watching you since you first started learning and sharing, but I have to tell you your wrong about MIG not bein suitable for the task, the problem is some welders know way less than they think and think a pretty bead is all it takes. I have welded steel over 2” thick using MIG, FCAW and GMAW are both up to the task when used correctly! I understand the difference between short arc and spray arc; if I wanted to I could intentionally lay a globular bead that looks pretty, but didn’t hold just to give an example of what many inexperienced welders do without any understanding of their mistake.
You can’t knock MIG until you reach the level of Wizard!
This is exactly why no welder considers mig welders skilled tradesmen, we are constantly fixing their welds not even 3yrs after fabrication in the field and all you ever hear are excuses for it.
"We spent a week beveling and preheating, used a 600amp machine with thick wire just to run a signal component so you can weld thick with mig"
Meanwhile 65% of all field repairs are fucking done on mig welds that failed
Sad to say, your knowledge is faulty, and the last picture at the end of this vid clearly shows that those welds whomever welded that multi-pass, is worse than the previous welds and that person who welded it, would not have a job in a regular structural steel fabrication shop if that is the best they can do.... FYI, always clean/prep the surface area from rust, oil, water before welding as you can see in the end of vid. was not done.... It always matters, always clean/prep....
MIG welding is fine for thicker metals. You just have to have the correct process. Is it always the right choice, no.
I'm no Profesional, but I would say that that had nothing to do with a weld. I have seen enough farm equipment to know when stuff gets warn thin its going to break don't care how good of a welder u are.
Too hot maybe or shouldn’t have been welded all the way around
SLIM! Thought I lost you
Chucke2009?
As he’s holding a mug gun… surely years of rust had nothing to do with the classic bush hog cracks
Most shops I ever worked at, welding, the ' basic common knowledge ' was that a stick weld was always stronger than a MIG weld. More penetrating.
The deal is if you have enough power to actually make a serious weld with stick it is going to make a decent amount of heat plus you don't have extra filler metal besides what the stick provides and also it usually goes pretty slow. So even if it's not that high powered it still usually makes decent weld.
On the other hand, with a MIG the arc point it very small so you can weld at pretty low power along with having variable amounts of filler coming in.
As a result you can actually make mig welds that look good but hardly scratch the surface , you can peel them off with a chisel. The other side of that fence you can dial up the power and slow down the filler and burn a weld deep down, farther that with a stick. You have control of that. Most people tune it in to where it sounds smooth but that might not make the optimum weld for the application.
Sometimes to get a good hot penetrating weld you have to set it to where it's popping and snapping and getting hot spatter that sticks real good and people are yelling at you to turn the wire speed up. You have to pay more attention to your settings. It can be smooth and still right, you have to have the right mind of what's going on.
A number of years ago I had a repair job where I work , maintenance made a tank that held coolant and consisted of 3/8 and 1/2" plate steel. It probably should have been welded very hot with 7018 stick, but they welded it the wrong way with way underpowered MIG. ( they never come to me for advice or to weld it they only come to me after they screw it up ) they leak tested it and lost count of the leaks. They wanted me to fix it and to avoid a lot of grinding I just dialed my MIG welder up very high - like 300 amps and very slow wire and proceeded to
re- melt the existing weld. It worked very well but in the process I went through
3 cone insulators.
For people that don't think a MIG is penetrating enough.
Average Miller machine most shops use.
.035 wire.
production mig in a hurry up shop will self destruct after warranty.
done by design.
Just crank the voltage up when working with thick dude looks like you tryin to weld inch thick with a 25 amp setting
Hi, I don't like pointing out stuff in videos, but I must say this.. You are wrong about the mig (gmaw)process.. the reason welds fail
In all cases, is that they were not done properly to begin with..wether in technique, temperature, dirty, on, on..
You have informative videos and please keep doing them, I don't mean this in a bad way ok, but I have been doing structural
MIG welding for over 40 years...please do more factual research...
Be Safe!
Don
Factories that manufacture I beams and other structural beam use a MIG process. You mentioned in the last second that you are going to do the repair with dual shield MIG. The title is misleading. You should have focused more on the wire used and the proper way to perform that repair instead of saying MIG-bad the whole time.
"SHOULDNT MIG WELD THICK STEEL" so all ships made from 1" plate that are Welded using the MIG process al all going fall apart and sink.
You don’t know
Maybe learn how to properly mig weld. What would you have done if you only had mig ? Absolutely nothing wrong with mig that was and is still used extensively.
Utter bollocks a very misleading title
The kid looks thirteen and don’t know much
Lmao ships are welded with mig , just learn to weld .
Hey kid get some experience before you assume .
Cause at this moment you have none .
There is a reason a stop watching this channel. Why now is it being suggested.
Maybe you should actually learn a thing or two about welding before putting garbage out on the internet for people who dont know any better