I just finished it, and I agree about nothing happening. I don't know how it's enjoyable. The middle 800 pages felt like I was reading the same thing over and over
This is how I always describe "The First Law" books. It's like Seinfeld. Nothing important happens it's just a view into the lives of some of the most entertaining characters fantasy has on offer.
My shout moment was when dalinar saw kaladin and Bridge 4 fighting and holding off the army and him saying "that's the most admirable thing I've ever seen." Finally giving them recognition and value. Teared the fuck up mid battle
"Dalinar gaped, lowering oathbringer with numb arms. That little force of bridgemen held the bridgehead, fighting desperately against the parshendi or trying to force them back. It was the most amazing, most glorious thing Dalinar had ever seen"
Guys... really. Sanderson's world building is shallow? That is way, way beyond absurd. Sanderson's world is built with so many layers and intricacy... I am not aware of any other author that is comparable in that regard. There are plenty of reasons given why the cultures on Roshar are the way they are. Much of the Alethi culture is a result of the religious schism that was the recreance and how that event is remembered. It resulted in a very strict societal structure with a rigid class system and very defined roles for each member in that society. To nitpick that the genesis of a specific social norm like the "safehand" is not explicitly explained is silly. The real point is that it (and the strict roles of men and women) fit exceptionally well to a society of that nature. I would argue that the somewhat arbitrary nature of this social construct (safehand) was very much intended by Sanderson. The comparison with Tolkien is very funny. In the Lord of the Rings practically NOTHING is explained. Hobbits just are the way they are, same for Orcs, same for Elves and so on. While Tolkien's world was created with a lot of originality, at the same time it is very, very simplistic. There is good, there is bad, and very little in between. And no, having separate works of literature (the Silmarillion for one) does not compensate for that. There is a reason that all that exposition is not done in the LOTR and the same is true for Sanderson's work. Your basic argument that Sanderson is using relatively straightforward prose so the world building is also rather simple makes no sense at all. Those are two different topics. I have the feeling that your objection to the worldbuilding is mostly rooted _in the way_ the world is explained, and how organic that feels to you (and this is an argument I can somehow follow), but again, that is not really the wordlbuilding itself, that is about how you feel it is communicated to you.
I'm gonna be real chief. when I have my copy of the stormlight worldbook in my mitts, I'm going to pour over it to make sense of the shit I've read so far.
You guys put me on WOK. Saw a vid of y’all saying WOR was the highest rated on Goodreads. Had to check it out…now my life is high fantasy. Finished all the Stormlight, Mistborn Era 1, Warbreaker, and now on Tress…I am a changed man from Sanderson and y’all were the catalyst. Thank you thank you
"Why do Vorin women have their 'safehand' covered?" This was raised in the video, as an argument that a few things in this world are not explained, and don't seem to make sense, but are just thrown at you. Am reading Words of Radiance at the moment, and Shallan gives the answer to that (page 365): Tyn: It's just a hand, Shallan. [..] That hand looks exactly like your other hand. Shallan: A lot of women have breasts that aren't much more pronounced than male ones. That doesn't make it right for them to go out wearing no shirt, like a man would! Our society has some norms that "we just do", and we don't necessarily understand their origin. You may consider something "indecent", but that doesn't make it objectively indecent. For example, something one culture considers incident, another doesn't. I agree however that ideally in the world of Roshar we'd like an explanation from a culture's POV on some of the cultural norms, but we have to remember that, even in real life, not always do we have an explanation about why we do things the way we do. "It's just is".
@sheronimakaroni3426 it is though. It may be randomly decided or there may be some reverence to the hand based on something in the forgotten histories. In the US, it used to be very slutty to show your ankles. It then switched to the knees where courtesans would put red powder on their knees. Now it's mainly like the breasts. In Middle Easter countries, women wear hijabs. Propriety changes in society and is sometimes weird. Stormlight is no different.
53:31 For the worldbuilding, the thing is, there IS a history for it. However, there's two things to consider: 1) a lot of knowledge had been lost through the Desolations, which set humanity back thousands of years. 2) A lot of it simply isn't relevant to characters to just...tell the audience. The safe-hand thing IS actually explained, but only to Kaladin, briefly, because the other characters (Shallan, Dalinar, Adolin, Navani) already KNOW it. They don't HAVE to have it explained to them. Like...I know I personally don't go around thinking about the history of the sandwich, I just eat a sandwich. The characters aren't going to be thinking about aspects of the world every time they appear. In that, I think the book is actually MORE realistic for it, because all of that history is in the background, except for when characters are trying to find things out.
I think the history question is answered in later books and maybe even addressed in this one. The desolations were coming more and more often and so they lost progress. After the final desolation they were finally able to begin progressing again, but at that point they were basically back to the Stone Age. Look at real human history. The Stone Age lasted 2 million years and we have no written record of it. The Bronze Age finally started 5,000 years ago and even that we barely have fragments of. It’s mostly just artifacts we use to reconstruct that time with some basic written records like hieroglyphs.
Also like Austin was trying to point out, there was the Sunmaker conquest, the Hierocracy, the Shin Invasion. Only one of them is really talked about in the first 2 books, because it was relevant to be introduced, but I think it'd unfair to criticize the first book on a 4000 year history gap when there's already SO MUCH of the current world that readers need to learn about, AND the flashbacks from thousands of years ago. To try and inform readers about all of the history that happens between 4500 years ago and present day, seems like a bit much to ask.
Yeah I don’t get this history guy, the false desolation, the heralds and what the been doing the three Illuminati esque cults, the sun maker the hierocracy. Where the unmade are, reading the letters and other content in the chapter starts
I had this book on my shelf for over a year. I don't remember why I bought it to begin with. Couldn't bring myself to start reading again after waiting for over a decade for TWOW to come out. Finally started reading it after a crazy storm took out my power for a few days. I think that this book helped lead me away from the brink. Almost done with Rhythm, then going back to the beginning of the Cosmere with Elantris.
I don’t get the Shallan hate. I loved her in this book. In fact there was a moment during one of the parts that I was like, “I wonder what Shallans up to”
the point of the book where i loved the most (didn’t stand up and cheered but teared up in joy) was when Dhalinar gave up his shard blade for Sadeas’ bridge man. I loved it cause it was the first time Kaladin ever saw a light eyes fight for him. it was an incredible moment
Very similar story to you guys. This is where my fire for reading was rekindled. Now I have the leather bound and 2 shelves full of read and unread books. Never looking back, it is still to this date the most I've connected to a book. Everything about it hit me at the perfect time.
The book took a lot out of me to read and listen. However, I slowly fell in love with these characters and would constantly think about reading the next chapter. Dalinar was my favorite character throughout and I yelled "Let's Go!" when Kaladin leaped off the bridge. Great review guys!
I did the exact same thing I would count how many pages or chapters until the next chapter about kaladin but I loved the books and read them all so fast. I stood up out of my chair and cheered during the duel in the second book
I agree with the guy on the left on his critiques. The words in the book felt secondary to the plot rather than part of it. There were so many instances of repetition throughout the work that felt redundant, and the specific prose in many instances felt lacking. Many characters winced and regarded each other. Similarly, the world-building was either a litany of facts and terms put into your face, or just chalked up to lost history. Overall the work was still very enjoyable, binged it in a few days. But not a definite recommend to everyone for me, 9/10.
the one on the right really represents me, he reacts the exact same way I do when someone says stuff like "sanderson's writing is not flowery enough" or like "you could cut out some chapters in TWOK and it wouldn't matter".
Cabbage 🤙 I would probably rate prose and dialogue separately so I don't know how to feel about that, but your worldbuilding interlude had me cackling. This must be the first time I heard someone call Sanderson's worldbuilding shallow 😱Richard really woke up and chose violence and I can respect that 😂
Those world building critiques sound more like nitpicks. Canonically the history of the world is fractured due to the desolations and we would only learn more as the characters we follow learn more but they haven’t yet
I started this video a month ago, when i started the way of kings. Today i came back to this after finishing the book. I fell out of reading when i was in high school (about a decade ago now), and i have found my passion reignited with the way of kings. I can see why Sanderson is held in such high reguard now. Im so excited to start words of radiance now, and i am swearing to myself i will be caught up by the time the fifth book is out and i cant wait to experience it with you guys, who kept me going with all the high praise you guys give this series. Best moment for me? "One more thing, im bangin your mom"😂😂
I incorporated some of the Rambler review scale into my own review system, which contains a category weight aspect, and this is the score I came up with: Setting- 8 World (Lore)- 6 Character- 7.5 Plot- 9 Mechanics- 6 Emotional Impact- 10 Final Score: 7.92 Great discussion on this one, guys! Your perspectives are insightful.
you kept talking about 4,000 years ago but that was the end of the last desolation the first destination was about 10,000 years ago and in between now and the last destination the recreance happened which reset Society again. the first book also talks about how the Church change and destroyed a lot of histories to match their beliefs before they were deposed from power.
One thing that's really interesting listening to the audiobook and hearing people say different characters names who read the paperback and comparing the translations is pretty great
It’s interesting to only have listened to the book and heard the narrators pronunciation of names, and then hear the way others pronounce the names in their head. Just finished the book yesterday. Great review thank you.
Rating dialogue really depends on what you want from it. Readability and nice one liners like in stormlight or more flowery deeper dialogue like the way of the wind or the prince of nothing
I'm only 1 minute into this episode, and I already relate. I've always loved fantasy, but when I was younger I used to love reading and writing. In the last 2 years I decided to take it up again, and I started with The Way of Kings. I've read the first 3 books in the Stormlight Archive, it is indeed my favourite series of all time thus far. I definitely attribute my continued reading adventures to it. So excited to hear you guys ramble about these books as I don't really have a friend group or anything else to share my love of this series with. EDIT: Cabbage
Cabbage!!! Richard’s story is the same as mine, I walked into Barnes and noble, picked out this book, and the rest is history! Got me back into reading and it was such a fantastic choice. Can’t wait for Wind and Truth!
As a character I like Dalinar, but his overall plotline in WoK felt a little boring. But he has one of the best character moments. The part where he takes a warhammer and starts doing the slave work while thinking to himself is one of the most epic moments and it does not have any fighting at all, whenever I think about that part, Dalinar's theme instantly starts playing in my head
I read recently, and I can't wait to read the next ones, in my country they are still translating the books and I am super excited to read every single thing in this series. And about the last part of the book, I also cheered out loud hahaha and got chills all over my body. Loving your guys videos.
Cabbage for real you guys are great all around good discussion I see your point of view how it’s only an eight but I also empathise with “cool guy” because I could tell for him it’s perfect it’s like a crush there is nothing wrong with it (also for me) and then bald guy it’s a good book but he doesn’t agree with you fully and your so enthusiastic so he’s trying to bring it down a bit
That's crazy I was a huge reader growing up and way of kings got me back into reading as well! I'm caught up on cosmere and on book 12 of wheel of time
Agreed with basically everything. Book 2 is my favorite so far. I am halfway through oathbringer and honestly i am not liking it as much. The Dalinar flashbacks are great, but i am finding the present story a bit slow. Lets see if the later half of it pays off, cause i heard book 3 is a lot of peoples favorite.
7:24 I’m about half way through WoK rn. I don’t agree with the criticisms. I wouldn’t say there’s too much exposition or not enough action, however it does feel a bit meandering at this point, all the plot threads and characters are super intriguing and I’m enjoying reading it but there’s very little overarching plot to grasp onto so far, like there’s no real goal yet other than the characters personal current struggles; Kaladin wants to save his bridge crew, Dalinar wants to find out why his brother was killed and unite Alethkhar, Shallan wants to save her family. All of those perspectives are fun to read but I have moments where I’m like ok but why are we learning about these characters?
Way of Kings is my third favorite Stormlight Book... I think? I'd rate them 4>3>1>2. I seem to be alone in not liking book 2 :-/ EDIT: The way I read the big gap in history is that... they were in a literal dark age and all the history has been completely forgotten. The world had been so devastated that until only a thousand years ago things hadn't gotten better at all.
Cabbage!! Finished this book last week and I still can't get it out of my head. Currently binge-reading warbreaker so I can go into book 2 ASAP. Awesome discussion guys, the world building part was really hilarious 😂
So true about shallan chapters. i was okay with her in the first chapters, then came part 3, where kaladin chapters were really good, and shallan was still thinking, should she steal or no and kaladin was judged by the damn storm thank god she was poisoned so we can finally have interesting thing in her story then there came her last chapters which were good but yah overall her chapters were the most boring i wish if they were shorter i understood in the end if the book that her importance is for the next book but still for that book she was boring and kaladin past was boring it was too damn long and not necessary
Coming to the series and this review way late, but on the subject of length I definitely agree that Way of Kings is too long. The first thing I said to my wife after reading it was "this could have been about 300 pages shorter".
Cant wait for the book 4 deep dive sooo much of that book satisfied in me questions and concerns in ways i wouldnt expect and added new things i need to know more about
I can't wait as well. I (Richard) personally loved the greater detail of mechanics in the magic system the 4th book brought. Navani quickly becoming a favorite.
I did make it to the end #cabbage, and I love the passion 😂 I just finished this book last night, and it really was epic just like everyone has said. Dalinar is the absolute man! SPOILER My fist pumping moment was definitely when Dalinar gave up is blade for all the Bridgemen. “Strength does not make one capable of rule, it makes one capable of service”. Truly was great to see him both live up to his morals/ideals, while not being selfish as he knows he can be. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Im halfway through the book. This is my 3rd time trying to get through it. Its soooo slow compared to The Mistborn Trilogy. I keep waiting for something to happen. I met Sanderson at a Con this year. He signed my copy. So Im committed to finishing it, but its a tough read
I just finished The Way of Kings for the first time 3 days ago. I’m curious at the history thing. I wonder if vorinism struck what ever happened from the radiants leaving to present day and Mabey even re-wrote some of history to reflect what we see in the way of kings, for example light eyes being superior to dark eyes, everyone accepts it. But the in universe way of kings suggest the opposite, or atleast that light and dark eyes are more equal. Especially in the epilogue when we find out Taln is a dark eyes. We believe the radiants betrayed mankind but we don’t know why just the vorinism says so
Man I held off reading this book for so long mostly just cause I felt like I wasn’t prepared, but I just couldn’t stop when I started 🦦 I enjoyed dalinar a lot but honestly none of the plot lines felt as entertaining and grounded as kaladins so I was counting the pages to his chapters every time 😭
I just finished TWOK and came here with the exact same energy Austin is carrying. Richie, how DARE you have a negative thing to say about this book 😂 also, cabbage, of course.
I know this video is so old, but i will say that the lack of history for the last 4,500 years is that The Heirocracy went through and re-wrote history, unless you're referring to scripts outside of Vorin Doctrine, which are viewed as heresy, lunacy, or something of the like to our main cast. The same thing happened in Europe several times, and between desolations and the dissolution of the Heirocracy, the loss of knowledge is explained CABBAGE
Am I really the only one that finds kaladin whining tedious? Yes, bridgemen have it hard. You don't need to tell me every paragraph. Also, the Tien flashback didn't do it for me. Loved the book tho.
I dropped name of the winds because I started reading the way of kings. Was close to the end of it but bridge 4 sucked me in. Now I'm looking to buy basically all his books starting with mistborn
Do not agree with Kaladin and depression . I would say its more trauma and survival anxiety than depression. Of course someone being an bridgeman would think their life is worthless. Kaladins story is more like having the strength of doing what is needed while exhausted and being a guiding light. The only reason Kaladin had that was because of his special abilities.
Which book are you up to? Because his depression is less obvious in the first book because of his shitty situation, but it becomes a lot more apparent later on.
@@Kat-gp6gj They are talking about the first book. Once again its not depression. They misrepresent both the book and the mental disorder. Going so far to mention its clinical depression. Once he have a stable life and this trauma will haunt him for life. I might agree with the statement. But its not true for the first book. And therefore said in bad taste.
I'd read Way of Kings so long ago, that listening to the spoiler talk portion of their video actually felt like spoilers. I so need to read it again before going on to book two. But, I agree - slow burn. Great World. Great characters. Great Sanderslide. Must read recommendation.
Cabbage. But one thing I wanted to mention was the pronunciation of Jasnah’s name, I think it is something like “yas-nah” at least going by how it is pronounced in the audiobooks. 29:41
if the portrayal of depression with Kaladin impresses you then I would want you to check our March comes in like a lion. It's a Manga about a boy who plays shogi but the shogi is really just a tool to explore characters and it's not a shogi manga the way Slam Dunk would be a Basketball Manga. I like to think of it as a Manga about how different people deal with the shit that life throws at them and it's beautiful. You could also watch the anime instead of the Manga because it's amazing too.
Absolutely - it’s on our schedule to give each one a complete review. (We will spread them out, of course, because as much as we love Sanderson we still want to diversify the content so that not every video for a month straight is on the Stormlight Archive)
Cabbage. I just read way of kings. Its my first Sanderson book outside the mistborn series. And i loved it. Its so long but i enjoyed every page. My favorite character is Dalinar he is so awesome, so cool. I don't have a problem with world building, i think its great for ONE BOOK. And chapters with Shallan were the least interesting, but they are still great chapters. So right now Way of Kings is my most favorite book.
I'm super late to this but I did get introduced to this book by you guys so here I am. Loved the book, but one plot point Im missing clarity on concerns the relationship between Szeth and Taravangian. Did he order the assassination of Gavilar, or did their relationship really start after Szeth was traded and moved around?
I just finished the Wheel of Time series and needed to jump into another series ASAP. I was introduced to Sanderson's writing of the last 2-3books of WOT. So jumped onto this series. So now I am on like chapter 42 of WOK. Baby, I can't stand Dalinar's damn nephew King. I just can't stand his lil' punk a$$. I do enjoy the story line and the prose of writing.
@@2ToRamble omg absolutely! It's the darkest fantasy EVER. And you absolutely end up HAAAAAAATING the main character...and you love that about the series 😂 .... like you cannot read this trilogy alone needs to be with someone because your destain for the main character's choices is gonna wanna make you text each other with the wtf moments at 3am.... it's what makes it sooo good tho. It's def adult , very dark, zero absolutely NO romance, and painstakingly good...The first part of book one will read almost like YA .... That's like only 100 pages of the entire trilogy... the rest is pure gold. I had my entire hospital ward reading it haha they'd come in the next day like ... Michelle...wtf?!!!
I have and always have pronounced Shallan as Shah-Lin. I cannot see her as Shah^ Lan as you pronounce it as it just sounds to close to Shalom and I imagine Tom Hardy in Peaky Blinders saying Shalom Arfur and it ruins it for me haha.
Love you guys. just bought Hyperion on your recommendation. i would push back though on the world building of stormlight compared to the wheel of time, where was the world building in the dragon reborn compared to oathbringer. i think the wheel of time has the best fantasy world in all of fantasy but stormlight isnt even half complete. who know what it will be when it is done. Have you guys read skyward? it is a fun scifi series!
When I finished this book I texted my brother saying that I just read a thousand pages, basically nothing happened, and somehow I absolutely loved it.
😂
I just finished it, and I agree about nothing happening. I don't know how it's enjoyable. The middle 800 pages felt like I was reading the same thing over and over
I don't have the feeling that nothing happend
My feeling is "A lot of things Happend and this was just the freacking introduction".
I felt like a ton happened as far as character progression was concerned.
This is how I always describe "The First Law" books. It's like Seinfeld. Nothing important happens it's just a view into the lives of some of the most entertaining characters fantasy has on offer.
My shout moment was when dalinar saw kaladin and Bridge 4 fighting and holding off the army and him saying "that's the most admirable thing I've ever seen." Finally giving them recognition and value. Teared the fuck up mid battle
"Dalinar gaped, lowering oathbringer with numb arms. That little force of bridgemen held the bridgehead, fighting desperately against the parshendi or trying to force them back. It was the most amazing, most glorious thing Dalinar had ever seen"
@@chmrz literal goosebumps when I read that. best part of the whole book.
Just finished the book for the first time, I shouted both when Kaladin spoke the second ideal and when Dalinar traded Oathbringer for the bridgemen
"Storm it, we have to go back."
I stood up and shouted, "Yeah!".
I almost threw the book because of the emotion.
Just finished my first reading of The Way of Kings! It was so good. The first thing I did was come back to this video to watch the spoiler section!
Hell yea - welcome to the journey!
Guys... really. Sanderson's world building is shallow? That is way, way beyond absurd. Sanderson's world is built with so many layers and intricacy... I am not aware of any other author that is comparable in that regard.
There are plenty of reasons given why the cultures on Roshar are the way they are. Much of the Alethi culture is a result of the religious schism that was the recreance and how that event is remembered. It resulted in a very strict societal structure with a rigid class system and very defined roles for each member in that society. To nitpick that the genesis of a specific social norm like the "safehand" is not explicitly explained is silly. The real point is that it (and the strict roles of men and women) fit exceptionally well to a society of that nature. I would argue that the somewhat arbitrary nature of this social construct (safehand) was very much intended by Sanderson.
The comparison with Tolkien is very funny. In the Lord of the Rings practically NOTHING is explained. Hobbits just are the way they are, same for Orcs, same for Elves and so on. While Tolkien's world was created with a lot of originality, at the same time it is very, very simplistic. There is good, there is bad, and very little in between. And no, having separate works of literature (the Silmarillion for one) does not compensate for that. There is a reason that all that exposition is not done in the LOTR and the same is true for Sanderson's work.
Your basic argument that Sanderson is using relatively straightforward prose so the world building is also rather simple makes no sense at all. Those are two different topics.
I have the feeling that your objection to the worldbuilding is mostly rooted _in the way_ the world is explained, and how organic that feels to you (and this is an argument I can somehow follow), but again, that is not really the wordlbuilding itself, that is about how you feel it is communicated to you.
When i got to the point that he said “shallow” i about fell off my chair lol good lord such a wild take
I'm gonna be real chief. when I have my copy of the stormlight worldbook in my mitts, I'm going to pour over it to make sense of the shit I've read so far.
You guys put me on WOK. Saw a vid of y’all saying WOR was the highest rated on Goodreads. Had to check it out…now my life is high fantasy. Finished all the Stormlight, Mistborn Era 1, Warbreaker, and now on Tress…I am a changed man from Sanderson and y’all were the catalyst. Thank you thank you
Lets go! Love to hear it, fantastic that Sanderson hooked you. Same exact thing for us 🤝
"Why do Vorin women have their 'safehand' covered?"
This was raised in the video, as an argument that a few things in this world are not explained, and don't seem to make sense, but are just thrown at you. Am reading Words of Radiance at the moment, and Shallan gives the answer to that (page 365):
Tyn: It's just a hand, Shallan. [..] That hand looks exactly like your other hand.
Shallan: A lot of women have breasts that aren't much more pronounced than male ones. That doesn't make it right for them to go out wearing no shirt, like a man would!
Our society has some norms that "we just do", and we don't necessarily understand their origin. You may consider something "indecent", but that doesn't make it objectively indecent. For example, something one culture considers incident, another doesn't. I agree however that ideally in the world of Roshar we'd like an explanation from a culture's POV on some of the cultural norms, but we have to remember that, even in real life, not always do we have an explanation about why we do things the way we do. "It's just is".
There is a reason behind this traditions but im not sure if it was hinted in books or it's info from interview
i dont think its good answer on that question lol
I enjoy it when things just are in stories. It makes them somewhat more authentic.
@sheronimakaroni3426 it is though. It may be randomly decided or there may be some reverence to the hand based on something in the forgotten histories.
In the US, it used to be very slutty to show your ankles. It then switched to the knees where courtesans would put red powder on their knees. Now it's mainly like the breasts. In Middle Easter countries, women wear hijabs.
Propriety changes in society and is sometimes weird. Stormlight is no different.
53:31 For the worldbuilding, the thing is, there IS a history for it. However, there's two things to consider: 1) a lot of knowledge had been lost through the Desolations, which set humanity back thousands of years. 2) A lot of it simply isn't relevant to characters to just...tell the audience. The safe-hand thing IS actually explained, but only to Kaladin, briefly, because the other characters (Shallan, Dalinar, Adolin, Navani) already KNOW it. They don't HAVE to have it explained to them. Like...I know I personally don't go around thinking about the history of the sandwich, I just eat a sandwich. The characters aren't going to be thinking about aspects of the world every time they appear. In that, I think the book is actually MORE realistic for it, because all of that history is in the background, except for when characters are trying to find things out.
I think the history question is answered in later books and maybe even addressed in this one. The desolations were coming more and more often and so they lost progress. After the final desolation they were finally able to begin progressing again, but at that point they were basically back to the Stone Age. Look at real human history. The Stone Age lasted 2 million years and we have no written record of it. The Bronze Age finally started 5,000 years ago and even that we barely have fragments of. It’s mostly just artifacts we use to reconstruct that time with some basic written records like hieroglyphs.
thank you for saying this, when he was talking about how there's gaps in the history i was screaming "BECAUSE OF THE DESOLATIONS"
Also like Austin was trying to point out, there was the Sunmaker conquest, the Hierocracy, the Shin Invasion. Only one of them is really talked about in the first 2 books, because it was relevant to be introduced, but I think it'd unfair to criticize the first book on a 4000 year history gap when there's already SO MUCH of the current world that readers need to learn about, AND the flashbacks from thousands of years ago. To try and inform readers about all of the history that happens between 4500 years ago and present day, seems like a bit much to ask.
Solid podcast. Love the passion. I recently finished the first three books and glad I found your channel. Cabbage!
Yeah I don’t get this history guy, the false desolation, the heralds and what the been doing the three Illuminati esque cults, the sun maker the hierocracy. Where the unmade are, reading the letters and other content in the chapter starts
I had this book on my shelf for over a year. I don't remember why I bought it to begin with.
Couldn't bring myself to start reading again after waiting for over a decade for TWOW to come out.
Finally started reading it after a crazy storm took out my power for a few days.
I think that this book helped lead me away from the brink.
Almost done with Rhythm, then going back to the beginning of the Cosmere with Elantris.
I don’t get the Shallan hate. I loved her in this book. In fact there was a moment during one of the parts that I was like, “I wonder what Shallans up to”
Fair!!
the point of the book where i loved the most (didn’t stand up and cheered but teared up in joy) was when Dhalinar gave up his shard blade for Sadeas’ bridge man. I loved it cause it was the first time Kaladin ever saw a light eyes fight for him. it was an incredible moment
Very similar story to you guys. This is where my fire for reading was rekindled. Now I have the leather bound and 2 shelves full of read and unread books. Never looking back, it is still to this date the most I've connected to a book. Everything about it hit me at the perfect time.
Amazing!!
The book took a lot out of me to read and listen. However, I slowly fell in love with these characters and would constantly think about reading the next chapter. Dalinar was my favorite character throughout and I yelled "Let's Go!" when Kaladin leaped off the bridge. Great review guys!
This sanderlanche is definitely my favorite in all of stormlight, thanks again for putting me onto the books!
❤️
“WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY SHALLOW?!” - This was a perfect layup for Richie to go out and say “In the sha shallow…” ugh
Read First Law now, the way Abercrombie flips fantasy tropes around is siiick.
This is absolutely on the to be read list - it will be read, we promise! Most likely going to have an episode on it as well 👍
My CABAGES!!!!
I did the exact same thing I would count how many pages or chapters until the next chapter about kaladin but I loved the books and read them all so fast. I stood up out of my chair and cheered during the duel in the second book
I agree with the guy on the left on his critiques. The words in the book felt secondary to the plot rather than part of it. There were so many instances of repetition throughout the work that felt redundant, and the specific prose in many instances felt lacking. Many characters winced and regarded each other. Similarly, the world-building was either a litany of facts and terms put into your face, or just chalked up to lost history. Overall the work was still very enjoyable, binged it in a few days. But not a definite recommend to everyone for me, 9/10.
the one on the right really represents me, he reacts the exact same way I do when someone says stuff like "sanderson's writing is not flowery enough" or like "you could cut out some chapters in TWOK and it wouldn't matter".
Cabbage 🤙 I would probably rate prose and dialogue separately so I don't know how to feel about that, but your worldbuilding interlude had me cackling. This must be the first time I heard someone call Sanderson's worldbuilding shallow 😱Richard really woke up and chose violence and I can respect that 😂
Cabbage
I agree with you guys on various points and just like you this is what got me back into the fantasy genre.
Those world building critiques sound more like nitpicks. Canonically the history of the world is fractured due to the desolations and we would only learn more as the characters we follow learn more but they haven’t yet
I started this video a month ago, when i started the way of kings. Today i came back to this after finishing the book. I fell out of reading when i was in high school (about a decade ago now), and i have found my passion reignited with the way of kings. I can see why Sanderson is held in such high reguard now. Im so excited to start words of radiance now, and i am swearing to myself i will be caught up by the time the fifth book is out and i cant wait to experience it with you guys, who kept me going with all the high praise you guys give this series.
Best moment for me? "One more thing, im bangin your mom"😂😂
That is a top tier Stormlight moment 😂
Found you on tiktok like 2-3 months ago and have read mistborn era 1 and stormlight books 1-2. Loving all the cabbage
❤️
Been waiting for this one. Great work guys! Currently on the last 100 pages of Words of Radiance. The journey has been incredible!
Awesome. Let us know what you think of the book. We will be continuing the reviews for the whole series.
I incorporated some of the Rambler review scale into my own review system, which contains a category weight aspect, and this is the score I came up with:
Setting- 8
World (Lore)- 6
Character- 7.5
Plot- 9
Mechanics- 6
Emotional Impact- 10
Final Score: 7.92
Great discussion on this one, guys! Your perspectives are insightful.
you kept talking about 4,000 years ago but that was the end of the last desolation the first destination was about 10,000 years ago and in between now and the last destination the recreance happened which reset Society again. the first book also talks about how the Church change and destroyed a lot of histories to match their beliefs before they were deposed from power.
If they adapt Sanderson I'd want an animation like gibli movies for books like tress and the emperors soul
One thing that's really interesting listening to the audiobook and hearing people say different characters names who read the paperback and comparing the translations is pretty great
We are so bad at pronounciations 🥸
@@2ToRamble nah you guys are great, keep up the great work
@@storky1456 ah appreciate it!
@@storky1456saDAYus
The lack of tech progress is a story point though, hence the quick technical advances in mistborn
It’s interesting to only have listened to the book and heard the narrators pronunciation of names, and then hear the way others pronounce the names in their head.
Just finished the book yesterday. Great review thank you.
Cabbage! You guys are becoming my new favourite Book tube reviewer
Thankyou 😄😄
Rating dialogue really depends on what you want from it. Readability and nice one liners like in stormlight or more flowery deeper dialogue like the way of the wind or the prince of nothing
I'm only 1 minute into this episode, and I already relate. I've always loved fantasy, but when I was younger I used to love reading and writing. In the last 2 years I decided to take it up again, and I started with The Way of Kings. I've read the first 3 books in the Stormlight Archive, it is indeed my favourite series of all time thus far. I definitely attribute my continued reading adventures to it. So excited to hear you guys ramble about these books as I don't really have a friend group or anything else to share my love of this series with.
EDIT: Cabbage
Ahhh glad you’re here! Series is amazing - journey before destination, cheers!
Just finished the book and came back for spoiler part. It was absolutely amazing, I loved every single page (it was my first book by Sanderson)
Cabbage!!! Richard’s story is the same as mine, I walked into Barnes and noble, picked out this book, and the rest is history! Got me back into reading and it was such a fantastic choice. Can’t wait for Wind and Truth!
Left guy's analysis about the world and cultures is probably the most interesting thing i've heard a person say about stormlight
As a character I like Dalinar, but his overall plotline in WoK felt a little boring. But he has one of the best character moments. The part where he takes a warhammer and starts doing the slave work while thinking to himself is one of the most epic moments and it does not have any fighting at all, whenever I think about that part, Dalinar's theme instantly starts playing in my head
I (Austin) forgot about that moment! There’s so much to love in Stormlight - Is Kal your favorite overall?
Cabbage indeed. I do get the points that were brought up, even if I haven't read Tolkien to compare Brandon's writing to
I read recently, and I can't wait to read the next ones, in my country they are still translating the books and I am super excited to read every single thing in this series. And about the last part of the book, I also cheered out loud hahaha and got chills all over my body. Loving your guys videos.
Thanks a ton!
LETS GOOOOO!!! My Week is finally compete!!!
You have a very short and early week sir.
Cabbage for real you guys are great all around good discussion I see your point of view how it’s only an eight but I also empathise with “cool guy” because I could tell for him it’s perfect it’s like a crush there is nothing wrong with it (also for me) and then bald guy it’s a good book but he doesn’t agree with you fully and your so enthusiastic so he’s trying to bring it down a bit
That's crazy I was a huge reader growing up and way of kings got me back into reading as well! I'm caught up on cosmere and on book 12 of wheel of time
The first law is amazing, only book series that can hold a candle to A song of Ice and fire
A First Law review seems inevitable!
@@2ToRamble no clear protagonist, every single character is gray, and the world is so gray that the story being told doesn't really need a protagonist
I have just finished this book and OMG I absolutely loved it!!! Thank you
Agreed with basically everything. Book 2 is my favorite so far. I am halfway through oathbringer and honestly i am not liking it as much. The Dalinar flashbacks are great, but i am finding the present story a bit slow. Lets see if the later half of it pays off, cause i heard book 3 is a lot of peoples favorite.
It is BOTH of our favorites - I don’t think you’ll be disappointed! But let us know after you finish the read. We’re curious!
Push through Oathbringer! The ending is classic Sanderson Avalanche!
I don’t know how I’d live with myself if I hadn’t picked up a Sanderson book back in 2020. I read mistborn first and my life was forever changed.
7:24 I’m about half way through WoK rn. I don’t agree with the criticisms. I wouldn’t say there’s too much exposition or not enough action, however it does feel a bit meandering at this point, all the plot threads and characters are super intriguing and I’m enjoying reading it but there’s very little overarching plot to grasp onto so far, like there’s no real goal yet other than the characters personal current struggles; Kaladin wants to save his bridge crew, Dalinar wants to find out why his brother was killed and unite Alethkhar, Shallan wants to save her family.
All of those perspectives are fun to read but I have moments where I’m like ok but why are we learning about these characters?
Way of Kings is my third favorite Stormlight Book... I think?
I'd rate them 4>3>1>2.
I seem to be alone in not liking book 2 :-/
EDIT: The way I read the big gap in history is that... they were in a literal dark age and all the history has been completely forgotten. The world had been so devastated that until only a thousand years ago things hadn't gotten better at all.
Oh that is uncommon, but we respect it !
Cabbage!!
Finished this book last week and I still can't get it out of my head. Currently binge-reading warbreaker so I can go into book 2 ASAP.
Awesome discussion guys, the world building part was really hilarious 😂
Thanks for watching 😁. Enjoy your Stormlight journey!
7 month late cabbage! XD
I'm catching up on all the vids on your channel since I've discovered it. ;D
Thanks so much for watching!
Was in a reading slump for a while, this book and wanting to watch this review made me finally put in the time to read. - cabbage
So true about shallan chapters. i was okay with her in the first chapters, then came part 3, where kaladin chapters were really good, and shallan was still thinking, should she steal or no and kaladin was judged by the damn storm thank god she was poisoned so we can finally have interesting thing in her story then there came her last chapters which were good but yah overall her chapters were the most boring i wish if they were shorter i understood in the end if the book that her importance is for the next book but still for that book she was boring and kaladin past was boring it was too damn long and not necessary
Coming to the series and this review way late, but on the subject of length I definitely agree that Way of Kings is too long. The first thing I said to my wife after reading it was "this could have been about 300 pages shorter".
Cant wait for the book 4 deep dive sooo much of that book satisfied in me questions and concerns in ways i wouldnt expect and added new things i need to know more about
I can't wait as well. I (Richard) personally loved the greater detail of mechanics in the magic system the 4th book brought. Navani quickly becoming a favorite.
I’ve been watching your guises videos for a while now now I really enjoy your content and your perspective on things also cabbage
Thanks so freaking much much
I did make it to the end #cabbage, and I love the passion 😂
I just finished this book last night, and it really was epic just like everyone has said. Dalinar is the absolute man!
SPOILER
My fist pumping moment was definitely when Dalinar gave up is blade for all the Bridgemen.
“Strength does not make one capable of rule, it makes one capable of service”. Truly was great to see him both live up to his morals/ideals, while not being selfish as he knows he can be. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Cabbage was great. 1:13:38 glad you made it😂
The Shallan philosophy chapter(Jasnah kills 4 goons) and the Wandersail chapters are underrated in my opinion.
Im halfway through the book. This is my 3rd time trying to get through it. Its soooo slow compared to The Mistborn Trilogy. I keep waiting for something to happen. I met Sanderson at a Con this year. He signed my copy. So Im committed to finishing it, but its a tough read
If you get to finishing we’re super curious to see if it pays off for ya!
Great video to watch while sipping hot cabbage soup.
🫡🫡
I just finished The Way of Kings for the first time 3 days ago. I’m curious at the history thing. I wonder if vorinism struck what ever happened from the radiants leaving to present day and Mabey even re-wrote some of history to reflect what we see in the way of kings, for example light eyes being superior to dark eyes, everyone accepts it. But the in universe way of kings suggest the opposite, or atleast that light and dark eyes are more equal. Especially in the epilogue when we find out Taln is a dark eyes.
We believe the radiants betrayed mankind but we don’t know why just the vorinism says so
Man I held off reading this book for so long mostly just cause I felt like I wasn’t prepared, but I just couldn’t stop when I started 🦦 I enjoyed dalinar a lot but honestly none of the plot lines felt as entertaining and grounded as kaladins so I was counting the pages to his chapters every time 😭
I just finished TWOK and came here with the exact same energy Austin is carrying. Richie, how DARE you have a negative thing to say about this book 😂 also, cabbage, of course.
You tell him 😂😂
I know this video is so old, but i will say that the lack of history for the last 4,500 years is that The Heirocracy went through and re-wrote history, unless you're referring to scripts outside of Vorin Doctrine, which are viewed as heresy, lunacy, or something of the like to our main cast. The same thing happened in Europe several times, and between desolations and the dissolution of the Heirocracy, the loss of knowledge is explained CABBAGE
This was also the book that got me back into reading
🤝
Am I really the only one that finds kaladin whining tedious? Yes, bridgemen have it hard. You don't need to tell me every paragraph. Also, the Tien flashback didn't do it for me. Loved the book tho.
I dropped name of the winds because I started reading the way of kings. Was close to the end of it but bridge 4 sucked me in. Now I'm looking to buy basically all his books starting with mistborn
Just finished TWoK 20 min ago…. Wow!
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Cabbage and the first video of yours I’ve seen. Looking forward to checking out your other stuff too!
Thanks a bunch!
Do not agree with Kaladin and depression . I would say its more trauma and survival anxiety than depression. Of course someone being an bridgeman would think their life is worthless. Kaladins story is more like having the strength of doing what is needed while exhausted and being a guiding light. The only reason Kaladin had that was because of his special abilities.
Which book are you up to? Because his depression is less obvious in the first book because of his shitty situation, but it becomes a lot more apparent later on.
@@Kat-gp6gj They are talking about the first book. Once again its not depression. They misrepresent both the book and the mental disorder. Going so far to mention its clinical depression. Once he have a stable life and this trauma will haunt him for life. I might agree with the statement. But its not true for the first book. And therefore said in bad taste.
Just started my reading journey really enjoy yalls videos. Oh and cabbage.
Thanks so much - journey before destination!
I LITERALLY JUST FINISHED THE BOOK AND CAME TO THIS VIDEO, can’t wait to hear your opinion guys!
WOO
I'd read Way of Kings so long ago, that listening to the spoiler talk portion of their video actually felt like spoilers. I so need to read it again before going on to book two. But, I agree - slow burn. Great World. Great characters. Great Sanderslide. Must read recommendation.
Oh definitely - So many details get lost with time - Im forgetting a bunch as well which on th bright side makes a reread so mich more enjoyable
Cabbage. But one thing I wanted to mention was the pronunciation of Jasnah’s name, I think it is something like “yas-nah” at least going by how it is pronounced in the audiobooks. 29:41
Youre right, we were very bad at pronouncing here!
Please do a Words of Radiance pod cast we are waiting! Stormlight is going to blow up y’all need to be ready!!
You commented at the perfect time! Words of Radiance podcast is coming out next Monday
if the portrayal of depression with Kaladin impresses you then I would want you to check our March comes in like a lion. It's a Manga about a boy who plays shogi but the shogi is really just a tool to explore characters and it's not a shogi manga the way Slam Dunk would be a Basketball Manga. I like to think of it as a Manga about how different people deal with the shit that life throws at them and it's beautiful. You could also watch the anime instead of the Manga because it's amazing too.
Do you guys plan on reviewing the other books of the series anytime soon?
Absolutely - it’s on our schedule to give each one a complete review. (We will spread them out, of course, because as much as we love Sanderson we still want to diversify the content so that not every video for a month straight is on the Stormlight Archive)
It has been a long time coming, but Words of Radiance review is coming in just over a week!
Cabbage. I just read way of kings. Its my first Sanderson book outside the mistborn series. And i loved it. Its so long but i enjoyed every page. My favorite character is Dalinar he is so awesome, so cool. I don't have a problem with world building, i think its great for ONE BOOK. And chapters with Shallan were the least interesting, but they are still great chapters. So right now Way of Kings is my most favorite book.
Well said!
I'm super late to this but I did get introduced to this book by you guys so here I am. Loved the book, but one plot point Im missing clarity on concerns the relationship between Szeth and Taravangian. Did he order the assassination of Gavilar, or did their relationship really start after Szeth was traded and moved around?
This is something that gets answered in the subsequent books - dont want to spoil anything for you!
@@2ToRamble thank you! I just wasn't sure if it was a detail I had missed. The rest of the stormlight archive is moving up my tbr
@@cristiannieves6874 Totally get you! I think it's answered in book 2 if Im not mistaken!
Cabbage 😂 can’t believe you’re hating on Brandon Sanderson’s world building Richard
😂 Say it louder!
Cabbage!!! Loved the rant y’all
🙏
all hail the cabbage, and i am very new to the channel!
2 years later and I say cabbage baby. This book kicks ass.
🔥
way of kings is my favourite of the stormlight archive so far, but I would agree the worldbuilding is ok, but for sure could be better.
I just finished the Wheel of Time series and needed to jump into another series ASAP. I was introduced to Sanderson's writing of the last 2-3books of WOT. So jumped onto this series. So now I am on like chapter 42 of WOK. Baby, I can't stand Dalinar's damn nephew King. I just can't stand his lil' punk a$$. I do enjoy the story line and the prose of writing.
😆 - definitely need an update when you finish the book. Need to see your reaction to a certain scene!
Not my Cabbages!!!!! Really enjoying you guys. Keep it up!!!
😁 thank you!!
Will you guys please review the poppy war
PLEASE!!! But the trilogy. I need to hear yall review that .
Its not high on our TBR but on the list - do yoy highly recommend it?
@@2ToRamble omg absolutely! It's the darkest fantasy EVER. And you absolutely end up HAAAAAAATING the main character...and you love that about the series 😂 ....
like you cannot read this trilogy alone needs to be with someone because your destain for the main character's choices is gonna wanna make you text each other with the wtf moments at 3am.... it's what makes it sooo good tho. It's def adult , very dark, zero absolutely NO romance, and painstakingly good...The first part of book one will read almost like YA .... That's like only 100 pages of the entire trilogy... the rest is pure gold.
I had my entire hospital ward reading it haha they'd come in the next day like ... Michelle...wtf?!!!
just finished this book and loved it so much!! Only thing to fill the void until we get Red God😰
Cabbage lol, great episode about a great book
Thank you!
I have and always have pronounced Shallan as Shah-Lin. I cannot see her as Shah^ Lan as you pronounce it as it just sounds to close to Shalom and I imagine Tom Hardy in Peaky Blinders saying Shalom Arfur and it ruins it for me haha.
"Ethereal Forms of Nature".. you mean spirit? Bro said "I read" after he couldn't think of the one word 😂
Love you guys. just bought Hyperion on your recommendation. i would push back though on the world building of stormlight compared to the wheel of time, where was the world building in the dragon reborn compared to oathbringer. i think the wheel of time has the best fantasy world in all of fantasy but stormlight isnt even half complete. who know what it will be when it is done. Have you guys read skyward? it is a fun scifi series!
I (Richard) have read skyward. It's a ton of fun. I will try to read the final book in the series when it drops this month. I definitely recommend it.
I've listened to this book on audible 4 times. Love it
Also not to knit pick just FYI its Yeah-sna not jas-na, I listened to the audio books ahaha
Ahh! We were so worried about saying Shallan wrong too lol. Thankyou for the correction
@@2ToRamble And just to add more audiobook clarity: it's ADE-uh-lin haha. Oh and SADDY-us
Cabbage, good discussion boys!
Thankya!
How ironic that Sanderson liked Rings of Power
Beware! I only thought there were spoilers for Way of kings, but they also spoiler book 3 😢 33:25
You guys are the best.
Cabbage is straight up delicious