Upper middle class: you look like everyone else in a nice area, but you can afford it. You're frugal on most things, but live/splurge on the things that matter to you.
Im 29, earn $120k, no debt, $110k net worth so far, single and no kids. Unfortunately homes are out of reach here in SoCal so gotta wait. I grew up poor and first gen American. I watch my spending, own my car, and i put 13% of my income to 401k/roth. End of the month i still save a good bit. I budget but i also want to live for example just turned 29 and did an 8 day cancun vacation. I feel very middle class or even poor at times cuz i see so many spend like crazy😅 i know the truth though. Ill be looked at like I'm poor. I want more goals achieved but at the sane time i need to relax. I barely turned 29 and did all this already. More than many. Blessed for the career and life i now have.
@@djm2189what is your career to be earning $120k at 29? That’s very unusual, very few people in my sector of work would be able to earn that much by 30 (not impossible but very unusual).
@@djm2189The most important thing in life is to make the decision to make Jesus your Lord and Savior then and then only are you truly blessed! I believe in being financially set in life but that's not the most important thing. Money is perishable but heaven is forever!
We live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast and are easily upper middle class here based on the really low cost of living. We would undoubtedly be lower middle class in the northeast, or California, or some other high cost state. But, we live like royalty here.
We can go further. Place these reoccurring bills towards a reward structured credit card and establish an auto payment to continually pay these off while reaping the rewards.
@@jamesdavis3757Most of my monthly bills won’t autopay to a credit card, so I have a second checking account for them to draft from. I also use that account as a sinking fund for bills like taxes and insurance that only come every 3/6/12 months.
Speaking as someone who started at the bottom and is now independently wealthy, I definitely endorse her list over the original list. She is describing personal finance standards that lead to wealth accumulation. The basic rules are: avoid consumer debt, live below your means, save, and invest for your future.
I used to tell my kids when they were little "You can act 'rich' or become 'rich' but you can't do both at the same time." We are upper middle class I'd say because we are out of debt and retired with pension now and social security on the horizon (besides some in our retirement account that is accessible to us).
Or just become a doctor / lawyer / engineer / sales rep. Make $300k+ per year and you can definelty feel rich and get rich at the same time. Saving 25% of a high income is much better than saving 50%+ of a low income.
@kyleolson9636 This is a very simplistic view. First, 300k is generally the top end for doctors/engineers/lawyers. In order to command that dollar amount, you need to have the drive to maximize your income and excel at your job or have a knack for networking. Second, there are plenty of people who have large salaries but 0 financial literacy. The result is people with 6 figure incomes living from paycheck to paycheck. Finally, sales reps have the biggest variance in earning potential... they can exceed the others by a lot but the vast majority will not hit six figures, let alone 300k.
@@kyleolson9636 doctors graduate with hundreds of thousands of debt, most of the doctors I work with don't "act or feel" rich, heck most don't have time. Also please research average pay for lawyer, engineer and sales rep the majority don't even get $100k. Your last statement is kinda true except when you factor in lifestyle creep. In reality if you make $300k a year in most places you can save 50% of THAT income.
@@kyleolson9636 The top earners are ENGINEERS, not doctors or lawyers as those two categories typically ran up HUGE debts borrowing for college whereas engineers likely went to less prestigious colleges and therefore had lower or no debt burden upon departure
@@kyleolson9636$300k is very low for a doctor, perhaps a D.O.salary. A friend worked in payroll for a hospital chain and surgeons were making $2 MM annually. This was in 2015 so probably well above that now. And this was in the Midwest so not a high cost area.
I think the turning point for me was where I no longer waited to hear what the total was at the supermarket before I paid. Now, I slide my card in before the total appears, and I no longer shop products based solely on prices.. now I just pick up what I want without really even looking at the price.
Add to this that I know I'm paying with cash (Or a cash-like payment method). I know I'm paying with cash, and loading up my cart with what I want and not stressing when I get to the checkout lane. I know both sides of that coin. I'm very glad to be where I am now.
I like your calm, matter-of-fact tone. I stay away from sensationalist videos. Love listening to different advisors. Ramsey, Ramit, Rose and “Financial Tortoise.” You’re gonna be on my watchlist now. Thanks!
I’ve always like the saying if you don’t have to think about eating at any restaurant you’re middle class, if you don’t have to think about going on any vacation, you’re upper class
Helpful. The only thing i think of when planning vacations these days is "do i have the time". I never think of money. But i guess the time part is also a different kind of prison and i must break out of it to be truly free. But atleast the money part is taken care
For me it was fully paying off everything immediately, getting or doing what we want (but still being responsible) and never even wondering how much cash reserve we have in the bank.
I grew up middle class and made so many middle class mistakes. My biggest mistakes were getting married (and divorced), working way too hard for an employer who doesn't value that, and putting money into savings instead of investing. I now live in a lower middle class neighborhood (thanks to the divorce). I'm pretty sure a major contributor to their brokeness is overspending as there are new-ish cars on the driveway while their garages are full of junk that has little to no use or value.
Overspending on cars sure doesn't help, but the financial issues faced by the lower middle class are more similar to yours: having kids outside of marriage & divorce.
A friend of mine, who is a multimillionaire told me once before he made all of his money “a person can have money, or they can look like they have money, but a few people can do both.”
I love the fact that my husband and I are hitting most of the benchmarks for upper class but our combined income is well below 6 figures. We just live well within our means. The average house price in England is £300,000. Our house cost us £80,000 and our combined gross salaries are around £60,000. Our mortgage is tiny so our money goes a lot further.
The next generation in England has a lot stacked against them too, then. At least you have a better social safety net over there than we do...for now 😶
@vulpixelful Yep. Our current government is obsessed with the US and wants to emulate it in every way. Especially medical insurance. I have a lot of sympathy for younger generations. Rents are crazy high, wages are crazy low. The math doesn't math. It's very much becoming a dog eat dog fight to get by instead of a society of mutual benefit. We're becoming a very mean and selfish country.
You’ve not actually achieved anything. Like many of your generation, you’ve simply lived in a house for a long time, bought when property was cheap and watch prices goes up 3x in 2020 years. Anyone of your generation could have done that. Young adults in the U.K. now have no hope of doing the same, given where prices are at now.
@simonworsley8631 Prices haven't gone up 3× in my local area. They've gone up 20% in 10 years (we bought 7 years ago). Inflation was 10% this year. You can still get a 3 bedroom with a 10k deposit. We could have paid a lot more for a smaller, newer place. The trick is to buy somewhere you want to live, not somewhere you think you can make a profit on if/when you sell.
My wife and I are upper income group but you would have no idea by looking at us. We live a modest lifestyle in a modest home with 10 year old cars that never had payments. We are investing 25% of our income with the goal of 40% (childcare is expensive right now). We are technically coast fire at 33 & 31 years old with what we have in retirement investments, but we got to this point without any inheritance and a lot of sacrifice. It's been tempting to keep up with the Jone's but I think we've done a pretty good job of resisting.
I would guess your family is in the top 10 percent for wealth at your age or maybe top 5 percent. 25% or 30% puts your family well ahead for the future. The goal of 40% is rather high. I would think that would be the goal at late 40s or 50s years old for late starters.
I honestly think that a lot of people who are in the upper income group, you would not guess it because they live a modest lifestyle still. I think those are the millionaire next-door type people. Congrats on all your success! I love the coast fire approach.
@@ErinTalksMoneyThe average savings rate for the upper middle class is 5.3% according to the Richmond Fed, so I'd say being well off but living under your means is pretty rare. Certainly a great sign of financial maturity for the ones who are doing it though.
Thanks for making me feel better about myself today! But truth be told - I always feel like I'm teetering on the brink of financial disaster regardless of what the studies say.
Are you intentional with your money, especially if investing/saving 25% or as close to that as possible? When you get extra money, do you spend it or invest it?
I always feel broke and worry about retirement on a daily basis. I still have 15 years until retirement but my net worth is heading towards $4 million. Most of my friends are way ahead of me at $10 million. The difference is that they came from money while I grew up in a single family home on welfare. I never want to go back to being poor again. The fear of this keeps me frugal.
Rather than be concerned with what economic class you are in or moving toward, I suggest that people focus on creating happy active lives, finding careers they enjoy, staying out of debt and living substantially below their means in order to achieve financial independence. There are no secrets.
I'd agree 99%. The one percent admits having more money means having more security and options, so while it might bring only marginally more happiness to someone already happy, that's still real.
The simple rule is earn more from your assets than you do from your time. You have to build assets over time (save, not spend, manage & understand debt). It’s a life journey.
I think co trolling your spending is the biggest key to making financial gains. We watch the people around us spend like crazy and barely make ends meet. We’re over here saving 35%+of our income and will have our mortgage paid off next month. We don’t worry about gas or grocery prices. We do buy almost everything on sale and stock up on what we know we’ll use. I’m actually taking a different job in my company that will be a pay cut but should be a much more pleasant situation for me. We aren’t ruled by our finances and it’s wonderful!
I work closely with four people who come in every single day with either Starbucks drinks or Dunkin Donut drinks. I look at them and wonder how much all of that will cost them for the year!
Thanks Erin. I check all the boxes except investing (I don't put my money to work, making money). My spare cash sits in the bank earning 5.1% interest p/a. Property is to risky and tenants have too much power. The stock market bores me (besides, my sizable superannuation sum is at the mercy of the stock market) Life is great, we've been blessed and my wife says our two college aged sons are our biggest investment!
5.1% in savings/CD is a recent phenomenon. You'll NEVER be wealthy saving. You must INVEST. People irrationally believe there is some giant stock market crash coming. If you arbitrarily PICK a certain time period to rationalize your belief, you WILL find a point in time where it did "crash". But if you look at the 5, 10, 15, 25, 40 year horizon, stock market returns FAR more than putting it in savings. There are TREMENDOUS opportunities right now, especially AI. AI WILL take over major aspects of life starting right now and will only accelerate EXPONENTIALLY in the next 5-10 years. If you think AI is some "fad" and not worth investing in, you're grossly mistaken. It'll be like people who saw no value in the internet in the 90s when it was emerging.
My friends and I are pretty well-off, but we don’t consider ourselves rich…. except for one very wealthy guy. If you have $ 2 million, $ 3 million, or $ 5 million, you can live very nicely. But real wealth nowadays starts at $ 10 million, at least in some expensive areas. Professional jobs, steady saving, owning real estate, & stocks - that’s how we got where we are. The really wealthy guy sold his company and invested all the money in tech stocks in 2005.
@@ChelseaMacc23 "small amount of money" and "over a year ago" is your problem. You're not gonna see much with those two things. And if you're barely breaking even, you're investing in stale companies. To see anything substantial, you gotta have at least $30k invested. $30k portfolio goes up 10%, that's $3k and that's worth getting up for. Whereas $5k is $500, which is wtf ever. Every paycheck, auto-deposit at least $500 into your brokerage account and keep buying AI and tech, not AT&T and Walmart.
Something I have recently noticed was I don't pay attention to what anything at the grocery store costs or the cost of gas is now days. I just swipe my card in both locations and never think about it. I make pretty good money, but I think this is more about my budgetary decision than anything else. I didn't really notice the housing market crash of 2008 and covid was a vacation for me.
@@johnurban7333 Double my money for what? I will retire before everyone else my age, I dont worry about money, I dont worry about market downturn, I love pretty much however I want. I don't need tondouble anything, my life is content. Oh and ai love my job, I come and go as I please , have unlimited time off and they pay me stoopid money.
I agree. I think people forget that the whole purpose to saving is to spend at some point. At a certain point, you "can" stop focusing so much on penny pinching, while still meeting your savings goals. I think that is when you actually start moving beyond "middle class." We still look for deals, and old habits like comparing prices don't go away, but if I want my Cheerio's instead of oat o's, I'm gonna buy my Cheerio's.
Great job! Excellent video and right on point. Love how you get right to the topic and stay on the topic with relevant information. We assign some of your videos in our finance class for students to watch because they're so well done. Keep up the great work.
I was raised by parents who grew up in the later Depression / WW2 era. They stressed the importance of saving money, not living beyond our means, and preparing for the future (including being prepared to meet emergencies) As I approach retirement, I'm able to check off in the affirmative the list you presented. I enjoy your content Erin.... I hope all is well. Take care!
Well but buying power matters too. 12$ an hour in 2009 buys in my area more than $17 an hour in 2023.... Also all that depends on outside factors too.... How much I make depends on market factors as well....
Of course you shouldn't be living beyond your means and should INVEST, not save. Saving doesn't lead you to wealth. It barely keeps up with inflation. You must INVEST. Also, you must attack the income side more so than the expense side. Getting promoted or switching companies and getting 15, 20, 25% jump in your salary is FAR more impactful than you cutting out $18/mo Netflix. Nickel and diming is playing with chump change. Gotta play with dollars, not cents.
I totally agree on second or additional streams of income. Maybe not for everyone, but we own 1000 acres a state over out right, and we rent it to two farmers. It’s great and worry free being a landlord where the tenets do all the work, take care of your asset, and pay you $70k in rent each year. I just reinvest it and pay taxes. This way we can still focus on our careers and our family.
One of the easiest ways to get ahead when you are young, is to take a second, or part time job and invest every penny from that job, even if you can't spare any money from your main job. I knew a girl who was an attorney for the U.S. Marshals service who used to also wait tables at night at a local sports pub. She said her Marshal salary was to pay her bills, but all the money she made waiting tables was her extra investment money.
Your videos are very good. You talk to the average person and it all makes sense unlike other videos from financial people I try to watch. Your talking points are right on the money and I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say. I’m in my upper 60’s so I’ve done a lot of what you talk about and I’ve also learned a lot from you. You’re very informative and doing great work in helping people out.
The irony of being upper middle class *and* financially savvy is when 50+ percent of your total income goes towards 401k, 403b, 527, Roth IRA, HSA, FSA, 529….as well as totally debt free….you don’t feel rich with the paper numbers when you are barely paying the bills and only have $50k in cash at the bank.
Plus the higher taxes, especially if you also have state taxes. On paper it looks like a lot more, but in practice it's not as big a jump as people realize. You have to make substantially more AND not increase your lifestyle, and usually take on more stress... and get less assistance.
@@ErinTalksMoney YOU are filling the space Suze left, continuing the legacy of prudence in personal finance. I have to believe that she helped so many with her unique approach, addressing audience members as friends, and setting realistic expectations attuned to life.
I don't know if it's the calmness of the voice or the room acoustics but I just want to lay down and take a nap on that couch. But more importantly, I appreciate the content and analysis!
I used to tell my kids that you will not be happy unless you are living within your means. Credit card debt is almost a sure sign that you have not learned to live within your means. Nice video.
My list by the way, is very similar to yours. I have a 6-month emergency fund. No debt. (Credit score is over 800 🎉. Worked hard for this ☺️). I don’t own a home and I don’t want to for now (own the home I live in). I love to travel. This year’s goal is to acquire a rental property and pad my son’s college fund. He’s 12. We live in San Diego. I run two small businesses I founded and I employ 3 family members. Again, I enjoyed your video, thanks! 🙏🏽
My parents always struggled. That means two things: 1. I learned I didn't want that for myself and 2. I got no inheritance. Basically I saved from every paycheck. My kids have no student debt and I have more income now than when I was was working full-time. Compound interest is a miracle. But it only works if you start early.
I have heard that compound interest theory for many years, I really dont buy it. When you consider inflation, and the rule of 72, time requires money to double every 24 years in a 3% average inflationary period JUST TO STAY EVEN. The biggest single difference for our family was the ability to set aside far more discretionary income for investment once the kids were on their own. Investing capital at a substantial percentage of your income is to me the single biggest factor in growing assets.
I'll correct myself. It's not a miracle and you don't have to buy it. It's just math. We never saved more than $1000 a month but I retired at 59 with almost $2m and my kids debt free. Doctors, lawyers? No we were both in public education. It took a lot of discipline that's all.
I was hoping to retire at 57 but since I had kids in college I kept working. I thought I’d probably retire at FRA but once they all graduated and started working I realized I could probably retire at 65. Then at 61 I decided to retire at 62 since my portfolio grew more than I had planned (like you said compound interest) and my pension was also more than I planned. Once in retirement I decided to collect SS at 63 since my wife doesn’t qualify for spousal benefits and my health went downhill. I’m hoping I make to my 70s.😊
VOO is going to be on sale even more. Expect dow 30k and s&p500 below 4k again. 10yr went over 5% and the last time it did that it preceded the 2008 crash. we are in for rocky year or two, so there will be fire sales all around if people continue to buy rather than trying to time the market.
according to that debt calculator I'm considered upper income bracket for my area. that kind of caught me off guard because our household income is only $106k, but we do live in a very rural area, have no kids, and no debts with a paid off house. if we go by the 50:30:20 rule our necessities are only 35-40% of our income, if we keep our spending to 30% our saving is 30-35%. and we do try to keep 3 to 6 months emergency fund on hand. it's kind of fluctuating at 3 right now because last year we had a bunch of emergency home repairs pop up in a very short amount of time that wiped our funds out and they're just now starting to get back where they need to be.
-Not being worried about keeping up with the Joneses and not flexing cause you have nothing to prove -Focusing on value in everything and not being fooled by name brands. -Having enough disposable income to pay all bills, investing for the long-term future, enjoying nice vacation (nothing extravagant). -Having good debt (like business loans or investing in a meaningful degree). That’s true wealth for me
We stayed in a guest house of a very wealthy elderly couple on a trip. They have well maintained older vehicles, very modest home, travels with a meal with them if they are going on a long trip, and calls a restaurant we were going to and make sure we get the lunch menu prices. Nothing but respect for this. To me this is how they got where they are.
We retired early at 55. Our income is median household income. But net worth is top 5 percent. I know we are in upper middle class range but sure dont feel like it.
I have been doing this since the end of 2014. It's not something that you can do overnight. It takes a lot of time. But if you really want to. You can apply and accelerate it as much as you want to. It's really up to you.
One of the best lessons that I had growing up was being wealthy vs the appearance of wealth. My parents really focused on a few things that were important, like schooling, but we overall lived very modestly and within our means. Nothing too lavish but never needing either. On the other hand, had so many friends that had parents that were living well beyond their means and it seemed to cause far too fights over how they were handling debt.
I agree with no debt, only mortgages at fixed low rates…. No need to rush and pay them off.. also if you own your home and several rental income properties.. your on your Way 👏
I'm retired, and my income isn't exceptional, but I've saved well over 15% and invested during my full-time working career, so my net worth is about greater than that of about 90% of the population. Most earnings from my portfolio are simply reinvested rather than being taken as income. I lived in an inexpensive apartment, bought used cars and drove them until they were 'old enough to vote', bought many clothes at Goodwill, and drank water in restaurants instead of either alcohol or sugary beverages. I've never been in debt. Now I either already own or can afford almost whatever I want, and life is good. I guess that means I've moved above middle class--but I don't really worry or care what my position would be called.
A note on buying brand names: It's automation. I do not have time to investigate pie pans. The , previously reliable, people at America's Test Kitchen say William Sonoma make good ones. I get WS pie pans in spite of the cost. It may well be worth someone else's time to investigate pie pans. They might be an expert, enjoy kitchen shopping, need to be more frugal, or that might be their share of the home's division of labor. I just want good pie pans that work well and last forever. For staples...Equate, Great Value, Basics... For one time durable purchase that I'm not an expert on...trusted recommendation quality brand.
Thank you for this. We are currently in the upper middle class financially, we are also extremely frugal and have a high savings rate while being debt-free. Everything that you said lined up. I didn’t quite agree with much of the article just as you pointed out.
We are retired, and well beyond "middle class". Our daily life is quite and laidback and enjoying the simple things of life. We do a lot of traveling and there we do spend a lot of money, get out of our system, then back to a quiet life. We try to save about 25 to 30% of our income.
@@hanwagu9967 two reasons: One to cover inflation Two we have everything we need or want for the most part The US will be entering hyper inflation due to government spending and interest rates. The saved money will pay for the inflation and taxes.
@@texasboy5117do you ever feel like you missed out of things earlier in life or wish you had spent/done more before you got to the point in life you are now?
@@brandon8531 At 74 I have met almost 100% of my bucket list. Just made one s few weeks ago of visiting 50 countries (hit 51). The secret is to enjoy what God gives, big or small. Any regrets: not really.
@@texasboy5117 I wouldn't plan on hyper-inflation personally. As long as people keep gobbling up Treasury Bills there's no reason to expect any massive inflation, especially with how much they are currently paying.
Being single my income of $43,000 a year makes me below middle class. My net worth is little over $400k; 325k from an inheritance in 2020. Makes me above the middle class.
Yeah, I'm sort of an oddball like that, too. Single, income this year will be less than 20k and will probably be about 26K next year. Net worth over 700k (not from inheritance). Living at home with family for a few more years until I can collect a pension and build up some more savings.
Great chat. Your line about most people caring about the value they get for their dollar made me chuckle. My experience is that is not true. The thing that complicates that is each individual's definition of value.
When you have a fully funded emergency fund, maxed out retirement & HSA contributions & also need to have extra money taken out of your paycheck to cover taxes on your taxable brokerage activity is a pretty good sign.
I realized I was upper middle class, high income, own 3 condos , two paid off and 1 tenant in most exclusive area in Atlanta. Have a housekeeper 2 times a month, zero debt, travel on Qutar air, first. Class flights, five star hotels. Have a golf coach, spend time at the yoga studio 3 times a week. Also have a huge designer wardrobe, I spend $1000 a month on restaurants. Couldn’t be any happier.,,
Sad as it may sound, in my early adult life I had no education outside of high school and struggled living paycheck to paycheck constantly, but that frugal mentality has actually helped me significantly after I went back to school and got a very good paying job. Now I save/invest 50% of my income and plan to retire early. I realized one day at the grocery store that I was well off when I bought some “fancy cheese” for a party and didn’t look at how much it cost. 😂
Feeling like your upper middle class is when you have your mortgage and all major debts paid off. Knowing if you are laid off or forced to retire early, finances won't cause sleepless nights.
Is amazing how saving on home cooked meals adds up when you know the deals at the grocery store. I'd still say many things are 50% more expensive compared 4 years ago tho. ( many $2 dollar items now $3 or more)
In the last couple of years, our monthly grocery bill has gone from $400 to $600. I laugh when I see the government budget office's inflation report. I'm like, "Yeah, where is it that low?"
I always kept out of debt for the most part, even when I was poor. My debt when poor was a very low car loan, and state college (also low, around $10k, for 2 year degree). When I made more and bought a house when I broke $50k a year, my debt was only the car and a house mortgage. Now, my only debt is the mortgage (I stuck with the same house so far). When I noticed I was actually doing better for money and hitting upper-middle class, is when I saw that I could put 16% into my 401k, 15% into a stock purchase monthly, and have $40k in savings, and still be living without any concern over food/bills. I still live like I make around $50k a year, and I kept living the same way even when I hit $130k a year...I just put all the extra into investments/savings, and have kept my $1300 a month mortgage instead of going and grabbing a more expensive house. I couldn't care less about looking 'flashy' with money, my entire goal is very simple - eventually buy the house I REALLY want, and retire. That's it. Free time without needing a day job is worth more than anything else to me.
OMG!!! I'm rich and I didn't even know it! Family of 5 in Los Angeles. Household income is about 300k. Certainly don't feel rich. It's very expensive here!
Looking at people around me I would guess that most people must make over $500,000 per year. The nice cars driving around and the designer clothing. I am always in sweats and a t-shirt.
Money is a tool or a vehicle to use to go where you want in life. It can protect you too. But Being happy, grateful and keeping active are very valuable themselves.
10 years ago we were broke in debt and renting! Today we own our own home and have 10's of thousands in savings and if I need something I just buy it and forget about it! Still nowhere close to my end game but thankful this Thanksgiving season to say God has truly blessed us!
Here is one I have noticed. When you order the same cocktail regardless of who’s turn it is to buy, and others in the group move to a premium brand only when they are not paying, you are upper or upper edge of middle class, or lower middle, they are mid-middle and cheap.
In this world, appearance is everything. I’ve been accused (yes, accused) many times, by many people, of “living below your (my) means”. But of all those people, I’m the only one whose house is paid off. I did it long ago. We did modify (cash only) our home a bit, but you don’t see it from the outside. Some landscaping aside, our home looks as it did when we bought it 25 years ago. The money has been invested, wisely overall, and we can spend on things that we wish. I don’t think that makes us “upper middle class”. I think it just makes us willing to be smart.
I definitely fall in the middle class income wise. But my house is paid off, I have no debt at all and get a lot of my food free. It's not what you make it's what you get to keep.
@@Dave-sw2dm Denver has a plethora of food banks. Also bring food to up to five other households on my block that are working poor. Produce, bread, things close to expiring will end up in the dumpster otherwise. Housing a 59 year old lady until she gets her social security.
Income is a factor, but there are others. Moving from middle to upper middle class can also be signified by: earning an advanced degree (Master's, Ph.D., JD, etc.); performing work in certain professions frequently identified with the upper middle class: Law, Business, Real Estate, Medicine, etc.; and enjoyment preferences identified with the upper middle class, such as live entertainment (plays, musicals), certain sports (rowing, lacrosse, etc.); and more frequent travel. Of course, income is also a big factor - just not the only one.
I think putting off medical care due to cost also has to do with lost wages. A lot of major health problems are preventable by undergoing procedures that may even be less invasive or risky. But we have inadequate labor laws in the US, so a lot of folks cannot afford to have either no pay or reduced pay while they recover from those procedures. But they have no choice once their condition worsens...
Another factor is where you live. Our family’s income and wealth would be upper class in much of the country, but on the coast of California we are decidedly middle class.
I'm definitely upper income for my area now, but I also spend almost no money on food (~$50 a week when i am splurging), I straight up own my car (which is also a hobby expense), I share a rundown townhouse with a roommate so my rent is extremely low, and I have been working nearly 80 hours a week because I enjoy working. I also wait to buy anything until I can afford it without hurting my savings largely because I used to be essentially homeless and living on $100 a month.
Do a video on net worth. Many people don’t think they can retire, because they have no idea what their net worth is and don’t understand that spending habits can be modified.
I always thought of myself as middle Middle Class for our family as I am a sole bread winner of 4 in our family. When doing my net worth we are more in the top 10% for my age 49.
99.9% of American Citizens has more in common with a homeless person on the street than a billionaire. You aren’t lower, middle, or upper. You are WORKING class and the bank owns the majority of “your” stuff.
Not having any debt is huge. The day I paid off my mortgage is the day I joined the upper middle class. I still have fixed bills, of course, but they’re only about 30% of my net income, and that means crazy saving and investing rates while still living a great life.
Having become quite well-off, it took me a about ten years not to worry about small purchases. I do buy brand-name products if they are actually superior, otherwise I don't. Yes, I've never had any significant debt - I did have a mortgage for a few years, but I decided it wasn't worth the tax deduction and paid it off.
I love the section about being dilegent with your money. Most people I know that have well over a million liquid got that way by controlling their spending, as much has having high earnings.
I like the amended list. I didn’t start looking into this stuff until after our first child started applying for college. Unfortunately, we hit all of the items on the amended list just 2 years ago. The federal government doesn’t care that we have only had breathing room for 2 years. So we had 2 years of not worrying about finances and now we get to be stressed out again. 😅
Eating out without worrying or small purchases can mean you are on the upper end because you might not do it all the time but when you do it you don’t have to care
I don't spend much time worrying about class titles. I know that I am okay. I retired 20 years ago at 54 and became debt free. I have about $150k income and paid medical. I trade the market with IRA accounts and cash accounts. I have a couple T-bills ladders and cash in money mkt accounts. We are renovating our home. This year, driveway, kitchen, new landscaping and update 2 bathrooms.
What identifies upper middle class in my mind is a mother at home dedicated to the children. The children are likely highly skilled by the age of 12 years in a wide range of areas, Dad is engaged in his children’s lives, etc…. Basically, people are not needing to sacrifice the most important things in life, just to survive.
My wife wouldnt make much more than childcare for our 3 children anyways. While we might not have the income of dual families, with minor lifestyle changes, not engaging FOMO- I do believe my children's future to as solid as any other.
Okay Erin, $1.8MM here, plus monthly pensions and social security from high earnings. We do shop Costco. And we now buy (no gaudy labels) nice clothes, shoes, luggage, backpacks and other travel things. (After 30 years of buying cheap stuff to get where we are). We split spending on generic and brand names after testing the quality. Date night dinner Thursday at the local, plus one lunch a week. Eight to ten weeks on the road a year. Two weeks Spring and Fall international plus the rest domestic. We hire a house sitter for our 2 cute rescue dogs. Rover is actually cheaper than a good kennel.
The amount you can borrow and service each month in principal and interest might actually be the best indication of class in the U.S. Net worth often has little to do with lifestyle. But lifestyle is all about managing debt or lack there of.
I am not there yet but for me to move beyond middle class, I would like to have enough savings to live comfortably (ability to travel, buy fairly nice things for myself without worrying about money, being able to afford care or a nursing home if needed etc.) until the age of 100. Of course, nobody knows what will happen in life but knowing fully well that your savings will last until you are 100 is a good feeling.
I was upper-middle, but I went so far beyond that I've wrapped around to the other side. In 2024, if I don't go back to work, I will be "poor" by income standards, but certainly not by net worth. I'm probably not going to allow this to happen because I'd like to be able to have a job that can cover most of my expenses for the year as well as trying part-time work. Also, I don't want my personal tax deduction go to waste.
If you have that much net worth and you would continue to work - full/part-time ' so your "personal tax dedcution" doesn't go to waste, are you saying that your net worth is not generating any cash flow? Because if it is and that cash is greater then your personal tax deduction ... well, you know what i'm saying.
My indicator was when I do not check if my company actually paid me, or if the amount is correct. I work for a large corporation, so I feel like I could trust the system to be honest.
I agree with this statement. I am middle class and I never bother to look at paystubs. It goes up and down a little based on holiday pay, hours, etc, but I don't bother to check to see if it was done correctly. A few bucks here and there are just not worth my time to look.
What’s wrong with you two? You should always check your paystub even if you’re salaried! They could be claiming sick time that you didn’t call out for, changing your pay period so that a couple of days go missing or deducting benefits that you aren’t receiving and you’d be none the wiser!
@@JakoWakoI think your missing the point. This is a discussion of signs you are in the middle class. Not worrying about small dollar amounts in a paycheck is one of them. Your response suggests your not in the middle class, or just really concerned about every dollar. You do you.
@@staceman7981 Having a mindset of “I’m so unconcerned about my finances that I don’t check if my employer has committed wage theft and even if they did it’s fine because I can afford it” is a bigger sign of being a complete pushover as opposed to being wealthy. Odds are that if your employer/manager (a person that makes more than you) caught you stealing a couple of dollars you’d be reprimanded.
to be honest we are doing better than we think. the only debt is our house which is on a 15 year mortgage and we are 2 years ahead of the payments. a fully funded ef of 6 months. we dont pay anything for health ins. its fully covered by the union. i recently found 3k in cash at my house which i had completely forgotten about. and i have about 6k in cigars in my cigar humidor. we are also putting 48k a year into retirement. and im 7 years away from a 30year pension in the teamsters. we have accomplished most of this in the last 7 years. we were asleep at the wheel until 44 years old. you just have to be willing to do the work
My cousin is in a union and he gets his healthcare through the union. Free? Hardly, he says $21 out of each hours pay is deducted for health insurance. I wonder how much of that is skimmed off for the fat cats? Unions are not your friend. They’re about to take Ford and GM to the trash heap. Bailouts will follow.
@dougandersen645 do you realize how much 21.00 for every hour worked would be. He's clearly mistaken or you are. Union employment has been very good to me for 23 years. I will be retired in 7 years and 3 months. At the age of 58 And be collecting 6200.00 a month pension. This year I will make 95k taxable income while working a 4 day work week. Seems good to me
Great video! Thanks for linking the calculator. Not related, but my wife and I were wondering where you got that fiddle leaf fig in the background. Looks fantastic!
Our household of four lives on $218k. We have a nice, modest sized newer home and two 7&8 year old vehicles. Our kids do competitive travel sports. We lived better when inflation didn’t explode our insurance. Our health insurance costs are crazy. I don’t feel upper middle class sometimes.
Upper middle class: you look like everyone else in a nice area, but you can afford it. You're frugal on most things, but live/splurge on the things that matter to you.
Very true!
Im 29, earn $120k, no debt, $110k net worth so far, single and no kids. Unfortunately homes are out of reach here in SoCal so gotta wait. I grew up poor and first gen American. I watch my spending, own my car, and i put 13% of my income to 401k/roth. End of the month i still save a good bit. I budget but i also want to live for example just turned 29 and did an 8 day cancun vacation. I feel very middle class or even poor at times cuz i see so many spend like crazy😅 i know the truth though. Ill be looked at like I'm poor. I want more goals achieved but at the sane time i need to relax. I barely turned 29 and did all this already. More than many. Blessed for the career and life i now have.
@@djm2189what is your career to be earning $120k at 29? That’s very unusual, very few people in my sector of work would be able to earn that much by 30 (not impossible but very unusual).
@@djm2189The most important thing in life is to make the decision to make Jesus your Lord and Savior then and then only are you truly blessed! I believe in being financially set in life but that's not the most important thing. Money is perishable but heaven is forever!
The millionaire next door #stealthwealth
Moving to a lower COL area has made a huge difference in moving us out of the middle class to close to upper. Thanks!
We live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast and are easily upper middle class here based on the really low cost of living. We would undoubtedly be lower middle class in the northeast, or California, or some other high cost state. But, we live like royalty here.
Paying your bills as they come in rather than waiting for your paycheck is an early indicator.
We can go further. Place these reoccurring bills towards a reward structured credit card and establish an auto payment to continually pay these off while reaping the rewards.
@@jamesdavis3757 - no doubt. We have anything we can (no fee) routed thru our rewards card and it auto-pays on the due date.
@@jamesdavis3757Most of my monthly bills won’t autopay to a credit card, so I have a second checking account for them to draft from. I also use that account as a sinking fund for bills like taxes and insurance that only come every 3/6/12 months.
Speaking as someone who started at the bottom and is now independently wealthy, I definitely endorse her list over the original list. She is describing personal finance standards that lead to wealth accumulation. The basic rules are: avoid consumer debt, live below your means, save, and invest for your future.
I used to tell my kids when they were little "You can act 'rich' or become 'rich' but you can't do both at the same time." We are upper middle class I'd say because we are out of debt and retired with pension now and social security on the horizon (besides some in our retirement account that is accessible to us).
Or just become a doctor / lawyer / engineer / sales rep. Make $300k+ per year and you can definelty feel rich and get rich at the same time. Saving 25% of a high income is much better than saving 50%+ of a low income.
@kyleolson9636 This is a very simplistic view. First, 300k is generally the top end for doctors/engineers/lawyers. In order to command that dollar amount, you need to have the drive to maximize your income and excel at your job or have a knack for networking. Second, there are plenty of people who have large salaries but 0 financial literacy. The result is people with 6 figure incomes living from paycheck to paycheck. Finally, sales reps have the biggest variance in earning potential... they can exceed the others by a lot but the vast majority will not hit six figures, let alone 300k.
@@kyleolson9636 doctors graduate with hundreds of thousands of debt, most of the doctors I work with don't "act or feel" rich, heck most don't have time. Also please research average pay for lawyer, engineer and sales rep the majority don't even get $100k. Your last statement is kinda true except when you factor in lifestyle creep. In reality if you make $300k a year in most places you can save 50% of THAT income.
@@kyleolson9636 The top earners are ENGINEERS, not doctors or lawyers as those two categories typically ran up HUGE debts borrowing for college whereas engineers likely went to less prestigious colleges and therefore had lower or no debt burden upon departure
@@kyleolson9636$300k is very low for a doctor, perhaps a D.O.salary. A friend worked in payroll for a hospital chain and surgeons were making $2 MM annually. This was in 2015 so probably well above that now. And this was in the Midwest so not a high cost area.
I think the turning point for me was where I no longer waited to hear what the total was at the supermarket before I paid. Now, I slide my card in before the total appears, and I no longer shop products based solely on prices.. now I just pick up what I want without really even looking at the price.
💯👍🏾
Add to this that I know I'm paying with cash (Or a cash-like payment method). I know I'm paying with cash, and loading up my cart with what I want and not stressing when I get to the checkout lane. I know both sides of that coin. I'm very glad to be where I am now.
Yup, ain't FI wonderful? Work hard to get there folks, the payoff in peace of mind is so worth it.
That's not middle class
@@thomask8298 That was their point.
I like your calm, matter-of-fact tone. I stay away from sensationalist videos.
Love listening to different advisors. Ramsey, Ramit, Rose and “Financial Tortoise.” You’re gonna be on my watchlist now.
Thanks!
That makes me so happy to hear - sounds like I’m joining an incredible group!
I’ve always like the saying if you don’t have to think about eating at any restaurant you’re middle class, if you don’t have to think about going on any vacation, you’re upper class
Helpful. The only thing i think of when planning vacations these days is "do i have the time". I never think of money. But i guess the time part is also a different kind of prison and i must break out of it to be truly free. But atleast the money part is taken care
For me it was fully paying off everything immediately, getting or doing what we want (but still being responsible) and never even wondering how much cash reserve we have in the bank.
I worry about both eating out and traveling. I feel anxiety anytime I have so spend over $200.
I grew up middle class and made so many middle class mistakes. My biggest mistakes were getting married (and divorced), working way too hard for an employer who doesn't value that, and putting money into savings instead of investing. I now live in a lower middle class neighborhood (thanks to the divorce). I'm pretty sure a major contributor to their brokeness is overspending as there are new-ish cars on the driveway while their garages are full of junk that has little to no use or value.
Since you are still alive, there are still times and opportunities to improve your wealth. Go get it if you want!
Hands down, divorce is the largest wealth destroyer for men in the United States. It will cripple even the most wealthy.
Overspending on cars sure doesn't help, but the financial issues faced by the lower middle class are more similar to yours: having kids outside of marriage & divorce.
You aren't about to judge someone's circumstance while living in the exact same situation right? Right??
@@fighter2621 Divorce wasn't my choice. I should come back eventually.
A friend of mine, who is a multimillionaire told me once before he made all of his money “a person can have money, or they can look like they have money, but a few people can do both.”
I love the fact that my husband and I are hitting most of the benchmarks for upper class but our combined income is well below 6 figures. We just live well within our means. The average house price in England is £300,000. Our house cost us £80,000 and our combined gross salaries are around £60,000. Our mortgage is tiny so our money goes a lot further.
Upper class? Or upper middle class?
The next generation in England has a lot stacked against them too, then. At least you have a better social safety net over there than we do...for now 😶
@vulpixelful Yep. Our current government is obsessed with the US and wants to emulate it in every way. Especially medical insurance. I have a lot of sympathy for younger generations. Rents are crazy high, wages are crazy low. The math doesn't math. It's very much becoming a dog eat dog fight to get by instead of a society of mutual benefit. We're becoming a very mean and selfish country.
You’ve not actually achieved anything. Like many of your generation, you’ve simply lived in a house for a long time, bought when property was cheap and watch prices goes up 3x in 2020 years. Anyone of your generation could have done that. Young adults in the U.K. now have no hope of doing the same, given where prices are at now.
@simonworsley8631 Prices haven't gone up 3× in my local area. They've gone up 20% in 10 years (we bought 7 years ago). Inflation was 10% this year. You can still get a 3 bedroom with a 10k deposit. We could have paid a lot more for a smaller, newer place. The trick is to buy somewhere you want to live, not somewhere you think you can make a profit on if/when you sell.
My wife and I are upper income group but you would have no idea by looking at us. We live a modest lifestyle in a modest home with 10 year old cars that never had payments. We are investing 25% of our income with the goal of 40% (childcare is expensive right now). We are technically coast fire at 33 & 31 years old with what we have in retirement investments, but we got to this point without any inheritance and a lot of sacrifice. It's been tempting to keep up with the Jone's but I think we've done a pretty good job of resisting.
I would guess your family is in the top 10 percent for wealth at your age or maybe top 5 percent. 25% or 30% puts your family well ahead for the future. The goal of 40% is rather high. I would think that would be the goal at late 40s or 50s years old for late starters.
I honestly think that a lot of people who are in the upper income group, you would not guess it because they live a modest lifestyle still. I think those are the millionaire next-door type people. Congrats on all your success! I love the coast fire approach.
If you own a house in your early 30s then everyone your age and younger is going to assume you’re upper income.
@@ErinTalksMoneyThe average savings rate for the upper middle class is 5.3% according to the Richmond Fed, so I'd say being well off but living under your means is pretty rare. Certainly a great sign of financial maturity for the ones who are doing it though.
That’s the hard part it’s the spending
Thanks for making me feel better about myself today! But truth be told - I always feel like I'm teetering on the brink of financial disaster regardless of what the studies say.
Are you intentional with your money, especially if investing/saving 25% or as close to that as possible? When you get extra money, do you spend it or invest it?
The statistics also mean there are many opportunities in front of you to improve your financial but you don't pay attention!
get rid of your debt.
I always feel broke and worry about retirement on a daily basis. I still have 15 years until retirement but my net worth is heading towards $4 million. Most of my friends are way ahead of me at $10 million. The difference is that they came from money while I grew up in a single family home on welfare. I never want to go back to being poor again. The fear of this keeps me frugal.
Rather than be concerned with what economic class you are in or moving toward, I suggest that people focus on creating happy active lives, finding careers they enjoy, staying out of debt and living substantially below their means in order to achieve financial independence. There are no secrets.
Agree 100%. Money does not equal happiness.
I'd agree 99%. The one percent admits having more money means having more security and options, so while it might bring only marginally more happiness to someone already happy, that's still real.
Well said!
I think this is one of the signs. I agree, but I also think it's good to acknowledge that not everyone can have an enjoyable career.
This. Otherwise society will forever be stuck in this trap
The simple rule is earn more from your assets than you do from your time. You have to build assets over time (save, not spend, manage & understand debt). It’s a life journey.
I think co trolling your spending is the biggest key to making financial gains. We watch the people around us spend like crazy and barely make ends meet. We’re over here saving 35%+of our income and will have our mortgage paid off next month. We don’t worry about gas or grocery prices. We do buy almost everything on sale and stock up on what we know we’ll use. I’m actually taking a different job in my company that will be a pay cut but should be a much more pleasant situation for me. We aren’t ruled by our finances and it’s wonderful!
I work closely with four people who come in every single day with either Starbucks drinks or Dunkin Donut drinks. I look at them and wonder how much all of that will cost them for the year!
Thanks Erin. I check all the boxes except investing (I don't put my money to work, making money).
My spare cash sits in the bank earning 5.1% interest p/a. Property is to risky and tenants have too much power.
The stock market bores me (besides, my sizable superannuation sum is at the mercy of the stock market)
Life is great, we've been blessed and my wife says our two college aged sons are our biggest investment!
5.1% in savings/CD is a recent phenomenon. You'll NEVER be wealthy saving. You must INVEST. People irrationally believe there is some giant stock market crash coming. If you arbitrarily PICK a certain time period to rationalize your belief, you WILL find a point in time where it did "crash". But if you look at the 5, 10, 15, 25, 40 year horizon, stock market returns FAR more than putting it in savings. There are TREMENDOUS opportunities right now, especially AI. AI WILL take over major aspects of life starting right now and will only accelerate EXPONENTIALLY in the next 5-10 years. If you think AI is some "fad" and not worth investing in, you're grossly mistaken. It'll be like people who saw no value in the internet in the 90s when it was emerging.
My friends and I are pretty well-off, but we don’t consider ourselves rich…. except for one very wealthy guy. If you have $ 2 million, $ 3 million, or $ 5 million, you can live very nicely. But real wealth nowadays starts at $ 10 million, at least in some expensive areas. Professional jobs, steady saving, owning real estate, & stocks - that’s how we got where we are. The really wealthy guy sold his company and invested all the money in tech stocks in 2005.
I put in a small amount of money over a year ago and I’m barely breaking even. How do you do it? Any pointers?
@@ChelseaMacc23 "small amount of money" and "over a year ago" is your problem. You're not gonna see much with those two things. And if you're barely breaking even, you're investing in stale companies. To see anything substantial, you gotta have at least $30k invested. $30k portfolio goes up 10%, that's $3k and that's worth getting up for. Whereas $5k is $500, which is wtf ever. Every paycheck, auto-deposit at least $500 into your brokerage account and keep buying AI and tech, not AT&T and Walmart.
@ChelseaMacc23. I would suggest you talk to a financial advisor about what a good safe withdrawal rate is, if you’re struggling!
Something I have recently noticed was I don't pay attention to what anything at the grocery store costs or the cost of gas is now days. I just swipe my card in both locations and never think about it. I make pretty good money, but I think this is more about my budgetary decision than anything else. I didn't really notice the housing market crash of 2008 and covid was a vacation for me.
If you did pay attention to those things you could double your money
@@johnurban7333 Double my money for what? I will retire before everyone else my age, I dont worry about money, I dont worry about market downturn, I love pretty much however I want. I don't need tondouble anything, my life is content. Oh and ai love my job, I come and go as I please , have unlimited time off and they pay me stoopid money.
I agree. I think people forget that the whole purpose to saving is to spend at some point. At a certain point, you "can" stop focusing so much on penny pinching, while still meeting your savings goals. I think that is when you actually start moving beyond "middle class." We still look for deals, and old habits like comparing prices don't go away, but if I want my Cheerio's instead of oat o's, I'm gonna buy my Cheerio's.
Ditto!
Great job! Excellent video and right on point. Love how you get right to the topic and stay on the topic with relevant information. We assign some of your videos in our finance class for students to watch because they're so well done. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much!!! :-)
I was raised by parents who grew up in the later Depression / WW2 era. They stressed the importance of saving money, not living beyond our means, and preparing for the future (including being prepared to meet emergencies) As I approach retirement, I'm able to check off in the affirmative the list you presented.
I enjoy your content Erin.... I hope all is well. Take care!
And repair (if possible) rather than replace.
Well but buying power matters too. 12$ an hour in 2009 buys in my area more than $17 an hour in 2023.... Also all that depends on outside factors too.... How much I make depends on market factors as well....
If you’re saving you’re losing. Invest.
Of course you shouldn't be living beyond your means and should INVEST, not save. Saving doesn't lead you to wealth. It barely keeps up with inflation. You must INVEST. Also, you must attack the income side more so than the expense side. Getting promoted or switching companies and getting 15, 20, 25% jump in your salary is FAR more impactful than you cutting out $18/mo Netflix. Nickel and diming is playing with chump change. Gotta play with dollars, not cents.
@@steveh5307 Switch jobs is so complex the majority don't see to love it!!!!
@Erin, You are not wrong. I fall into upper, and I spend frugally. Diligent savings is much more important than how high your income is.
I totally agree on second or additional streams of income. Maybe not for everyone, but we own 1000 acres a state over out right, and we rent it to two farmers. It’s great and worry free being a landlord where the tenets do all the work, take care of your asset, and pay you $70k in rent each year. I just reinvest it and pay taxes. This way we can still focus on our careers and our family.
One of the easiest ways to get ahead when you are young, is to take a second, or part time job and invest every penny from that job, even if you can't spare any money from your main job. I knew a girl who was an attorney for the U.S. Marshals service who used to also wait tables at night at a local sports pub. She said her Marshal salary was to pay her bills, but all the money she made waiting tables was her extra investment money.
Your videos are very good. You talk to the average person and it all makes sense unlike other videos from financial people I try to watch. Your talking points are right on the money and I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say. I’m in my upper 60’s so I’ve done a lot of what you talk about and I’ve also learned a lot from you. You’re very informative and doing great work in helping people out.
Friends with money issues listen to your advice or fade away.
The irony of being upper middle class *and* financially savvy is when 50+ percent of your total income goes towards 401k, 403b, 527, Roth IRA, HSA, FSA, 529….as well as totally debt free….you don’t feel rich with the paper numbers when you are barely paying the bills and only have $50k in cash at the bank.
exactly...but it is by choice. Many people don't have that choice.
Not sure why you are saving 50% for the future. 25-30% is sufficient for most, so make sure you enjoy life as well with that extra 25% difference
Plus the higher taxes, especially if you also have state taxes. On paper it looks like a lot more, but in practice it's not as big a jump as people realize. You have to make substantially more AND not increase your lifestyle, and usually take on more stress... and get less assistance.
@@moeck14 At 25% hope you enjoy your job enough to continue working til 65. FIRE Baby!
@@moeck14I save more in hopes of retiring early!
I'm retired and I enjoy your good advice for most working people
AGREE, good link to Pew Research. Also, life is People First, Money Second, Things Third, not about comparisons or “status.”
Suze Orman!! 🙌 I miss her show!!
@@ErinTalksMoney YOU are filling the space Suze left, continuing the legacy of prudence in personal finance. I have to believe that she helped so many with her unique approach, addressing audience members as friends, and setting realistic expectations attuned to life.
I don't know if it's the calmness of the voice or the room acoustics but I just want to lay down and take a nap on that couch. But more importantly, I appreciate the content and analysis!
I used to tell my kids that you will not be happy unless you are living within your means. Credit card debt is almost a sure sign that you have not learned to live within your means. Nice video.
Dang I breached middle class to upper without realizing it... Time to accelerate it more!
What are you invested in?
@@KidCity1985 90% various etfs and mutual funds. 10% single stocks for fun. Only mutual funds for my wife's retirement accounts.
My list by the way, is very similar to yours. I have a 6-month emergency fund. No debt. (Credit score is over 800 🎉. Worked hard for this ☺️). I don’t own a home and I don’t want to for now (own the home I live in). I love to travel. This year’s goal is to acquire a rental property and pad my son’s college fund. He’s 12. We live in San Diego. I run two small businesses I founded and I employ 3 family members. Again, I enjoyed your video, thanks! 🙏🏽
This was eye opening for me. Especially the Pew research link.
Your puppy on the couch is too cute!! 😊
I think so too!
My parents always struggled. That means two things: 1. I learned I didn't want that for myself and 2. I got no inheritance. Basically I saved from every paycheck. My kids have no student debt and I have more income now than when I was was working full-time. Compound interest is a miracle. But it only works if you start early.
I have heard that compound interest theory for many years, I really dont buy it. When you consider inflation, and the rule of 72, time requires money to double every 24 years in a 3% average inflationary period JUST TO STAY EVEN. The biggest single difference for our family was the ability to set aside far more discretionary income for investment once the kids were on their own. Investing capital at a substantial percentage of your income is to me the single biggest factor in growing assets.
I'll correct myself. It's not a miracle and you don't have to buy it. It's just math. We never saved more than $1000 a month but I retired at 59 with almost $2m and my kids debt free. Doctors, lawyers? No we were both in public education. It took a lot of discipline that's all.
I was hoping to retire at 57 but since I had kids in college I kept working. I thought I’d probably retire at FRA but once they all graduated and started working I realized I could probably retire at 65. Then at 61 I decided to retire at 62 since my portfolio grew more than I had planned (like you said compound interest) and my pension was also more than I planned. Once in retirement I decided to collect SS at 63 since my wife doesn’t qualify for spousal benefits and my health went downhill. I’m hoping I make to my 70s.😊
If TSLA stock keeps dropping in value, I might become middle class soon 😁 That dog looks comfy...
only if you don't buy more🤑
@@hanwagu9967 If it was a good deal at $250 it's even better now. Musk is a smart guy so when they start buying back cheap shares I probably will too.
@@antilogism i'm quite sure that's my point.
I just added more shares today.
PS VOO is on sale today for any who are interested
VOO is going to be on sale even more. Expect dow 30k and s&p500 below 4k again. 10yr went over 5% and the last time it did that it preceded the 2008 crash. we are in for rocky year or two, so there will be fire sales all around if people continue to buy rather than trying to time the market.
@hanwagu9967 we'll see. I doubt we'll get that low.
@@hanwagu9967 VOO back into the 390s
@@hanwagu9967 VOO up $40/share since this comment
according to that debt calculator I'm considered upper income bracket for my area. that kind of caught me off guard because our household income is only $106k, but we do live in a very rural area, have no kids, and no debts with a paid off house. if we go by the 50:30:20 rule our necessities are only 35-40% of our income, if we keep our spending to 30% our saving is 30-35%. and we do try to keep 3 to 6 months emergency fund on hand. it's kind of fluctuating at 3 right now because last year we had a bunch of emergency home repairs pop up in a very short amount of time that wiped our funds out and they're just now starting to get back where they need to be.
-Not being worried about keeping up with the Joneses and not flexing cause you have nothing to prove
-Focusing on value in everything and not being fooled by name brands. -Having enough disposable income to pay all bills, investing for the long-term future, enjoying nice vacation (nothing extravagant).
-Having good debt (like business loans or investing in a meaningful degree).
That’s true wealth for me
Yep. Because in this case, you ARE the Joneses.
I think another big consideration is how much free time you have to pursue other interests/hobbies.
Oh snap Humprhey Yang shouted you out in his video. That is awesome! Hope you get some well deserved subscribers!
I ran to his video when I saw this!! I love him! I hadn’t seen todays video yet 😊
We stayed in a guest house of a very wealthy elderly couple on a trip. They have well maintained older vehicles, very modest home, travels with a meal with them if they are going on a long trip, and calls a restaurant we were going to and make sure we get the lunch menu prices. Nothing but respect for this. To me this is how they got where they are.
We retired early at 55. Our income is median household income. But net worth is top 5 percent. I know we are in upper middle class range but sure dont feel like it.
I have been doing this since the end of 2014. It's not something that you can do overnight. It takes a lot of time. But if you really want to. You can apply and accelerate it as much as you want to. It's really up to you.
One of the best lessons that I had growing up was being wealthy vs the appearance of wealth. My parents really focused on a few things that were important, like schooling, but we overall lived very modestly and within our means. Nothing too lavish but never needing either. On the other hand, had so many friends that had parents that were living well beyond their means and it seemed to cause far too fights over how they were handling debt.
A difficult topic and you handled it well.
I agree with no debt, only mortgages at fixed low rates…. No need to rush and pay them off.. also if you own your home and several rental income properties.. your on your
Way 👏
I'm retired, and my income isn't exceptional, but I've saved well over 15% and invested during my full-time working career, so my net worth is about greater than that of about 90% of the population. Most earnings from my portfolio are simply reinvested rather than being taken as income. I lived in an inexpensive apartment, bought used cars and drove them until they were 'old enough to vote', bought many clothes at Goodwill, and drank water in restaurants instead of either alcohol or sugary beverages. I've never been in debt. Now I either already own or can afford almost whatever I want, and life is good. I guess that means I've moved above middle class--but I don't really worry or care what my position would be called.
Bingo.......You had it figured out all along.
So much of this is spot on. I agree to a point on the brand names, we don't go for the big names unless it makes sense...like tools lol.
Limiting kids to 2, starting a 401K in your 20s and saving for a home. Why pay rent when you can pay yourself and write off some of the interest?
A note on buying brand names: It's automation. I do not have time to investigate pie pans. The
, previously reliable, people at America's Test Kitchen say William Sonoma make good ones. I get WS pie pans in spite of the cost. It may well be worth someone else's time to investigate pie pans. They might be an expert, enjoy kitchen shopping, need to be more frugal, or that might be their share of the home's division of labor. I just want good pie pans that work well and last forever. For staples...Equate, Great Value, Basics... For one time durable purchase that I'm not an expert on...trusted recommendation quality brand.
Thank you for this. We are currently in the upper middle class financially, we are also extremely frugal and have a high savings rate while being debt-free. Everything that you said lined up. I didn’t quite agree with much of the article just as you pointed out.
We are retired, and well beyond "middle class". Our daily life is quite and laidback and enjoying the simple things of life. We do a lot of traveling and there we do spend a lot of money, get out of our system, then back to a quiet life. We try to save about 25 to 30% of our income.
if you are retired, why are you still saving income?
@@hanwagu9967 two reasons:
One to cover inflation
Two we have everything we need or want for the most part
The US will be entering hyper inflation due to government spending and interest rates. The saved money will pay for the inflation and taxes.
@@texasboy5117do you ever feel like you missed out of things earlier in life or wish you had spent/done more before you got to the point in life you are now?
@@brandon8531 At 74 I have met almost 100% of my bucket list. Just made one s few weeks ago of visiting 50 countries (hit 51). The secret is to enjoy what God gives, big or small. Any regrets: not really.
@@texasboy5117 I wouldn't plan on hyper-inflation personally. As long as people keep gobbling up Treasury Bills there's no reason to expect any massive inflation, especially with how much they are currently paying.
Being single my income of $43,000 a year makes me below middle class. My net worth is little over $400k; 325k from an inheritance in 2020. Makes me above the middle class.
Yeah, I'm sort of an oddball like that, too. Single, income this year will be less than 20k and will probably be about 26K next year. Net worth over 700k (not from inheritance). Living at home with family for a few more years until I can collect a pension and build up some more savings.
Great chat. Your line about most people caring about the value they get for their dollar made me chuckle. My experience is that is not true. The thing that complicates that is each individual's definition of value.
When you have a fully funded emergency fund, maxed out retirement & HSA contributions & also need to have extra money taken out of your paycheck to cover taxes on your taxable brokerage activity is a pretty good sign.
I realized I was upper middle class, high income, own 3 condos , two paid off and 1 tenant in most exclusive area in Atlanta. Have a housekeeper 2 times a month, zero debt, travel on Qutar air, first. Class flights, five star hotels. Have a golf coach, spend time at the yoga studio 3 times a week. Also have a huge designer wardrobe, I spend $1000 a month on restaurants. Couldn’t be any happier.,,
Sad as it may sound, in my early adult life I had no education outside of high school and struggled living paycheck to paycheck constantly, but that frugal mentality has actually helped me significantly after I went back to school and got a very good paying job. Now I save/invest 50% of my income and plan to retire early. I realized one day at the grocery store that I was well off when I bought some “fancy cheese” for a party and didn’t look at how much it cost. 😂
Feeling like your upper middle class is when you have your mortgage and all major debts paid off. Knowing if you are laid off or forced to retire early, finances won't cause sleepless nights.
Love this!
Me, going on 7 years retired.
That's actually upper class. That's the fallacy in the ranking using "income".
The most interesting numbers I see on this video are 28k views yet only 1k likes. Step up Erin fans!!!🎉
I really like the videos! Thanks for being thoughtful, detailed and thorough. Really good thoughts to kick around!
Glad you like them!
Is amazing how saving on home cooked meals adds up when you know the deals at the grocery store. I'd still say many things are 50% more expensive compared 4 years ago tho. ( many $2 dollar items now $3 or more)
In the last couple of years, our monthly grocery bill has gone from $400 to $600. I laugh when I see the government budget office's inflation report. I'm like, "Yeah, where is it that low?"
I always kept out of debt for the most part, even when I was poor. My debt when poor was a very low car loan, and state college (also low, around $10k, for 2 year degree). When I made more and bought a house when I broke $50k a year, my debt was only the car and a house mortgage. Now, my only debt is the mortgage (I stuck with the same house so far). When I noticed I was actually doing better for money and hitting upper-middle class, is when I saw that I could put 16% into my 401k, 15% into a stock purchase monthly, and have $40k in savings, and still be living without any concern over food/bills. I still live like I make around $50k a year, and I kept living the same way even when I hit $130k a year...I just put all the extra into investments/savings, and have kept my $1300 a month mortgage instead of going and grabbing a more expensive house.
I couldn't care less about looking 'flashy' with money, my entire goal is very simple - eventually buy the house I REALLY want, and retire. That's it. Free time without needing a day job is worth more than anything else to me.
OMG!!! I'm rich and I didn't even know it! Family of 5 in Los Angeles. Household income is about 300k. Certainly don't feel rich. It's very expensive here!
Looking at people around me I would guess that most people must make over $500,000 per year. The nice cars driving around and the designer clothing. I am always in sweats and a t-shirt.
Money is a tool or a vehicle to use to go where you want in life. It can protect you too. But Being happy, grateful and keeping active are very valuable themselves.
I work remote but live in Appalachia. This allowed me to enter upper class on $156k income.
Good job. Keep up the good work.
10 years ago we were broke in debt and renting! Today we own our own home and have 10's of thousands in savings and if I need something I just buy it and forget about it! Still nowhere close to my end game but thankful this Thanksgiving season to say God has truly blessed us!
Here is one I have noticed. When you order the same cocktail regardless of who’s turn it is to buy, and others in the group move to a premium brand only when they are not paying, you are upper or upper edge of middle class, or lower middle, they are mid-middle and cheap.
In this world, appearance is everything. I’ve been accused (yes, accused) many times, by many people, of “living below your (my) means”. But of all those people, I’m the only one whose house is paid off. I did it long ago. We did modify (cash only) our home a bit, but you don’t see it from the outside. Some landscaping aside, our home looks as it did when we bought it 25 years ago. The money has been invested, wisely overall, and we can spend on things that we wish.
I don’t think that makes us “upper middle class”. I think it just makes us willing to be smart.
I definitely fall in the middle class income wise. But my house is paid off, I have no debt at all and get a lot of my food free. It's not what you make it's what you get to keep.
Free food?
@@Dave-sw2dm Denver has a plethora of food banks. Also bring food to up to five other households on my block that are working poor. Produce, bread, things close to expiring will end up in the dumpster otherwise. Housing a 59 year old lady until she gets her social security.
Income is a factor, but there are others. Moving from middle to upper middle class can also be signified by: earning an advanced degree (Master's, Ph.D., JD, etc.); performing work in certain professions frequently identified with the upper middle class: Law, Business, Real Estate, Medicine, etc.; and enjoyment preferences identified with the upper middle class, such as live entertainment (plays, musicals), certain sports (rowing, lacrosse, etc.); and more frequent travel. Of course, income is also a big factor - just not the only one.
I think putting off medical care due to cost also has to do with lost wages. A lot of major health problems are preventable by undergoing procedures that may even be less invasive or risky. But we have inadequate labor laws in the US, so a lot of folks cannot afford to have either no pay or reduced pay while they recover from those procedures. But they have no choice once their condition worsens...
Another factor is where you live. Our family’s income and wealth would be upper class in much of the country, but on the coast of California we are decidedly middle class.
This video makes me feel so good about myself.🎉
I’m upper and get my clothes at Costco. 😂.
Hey, I love Costco
@@ErinTalksMoney I’m in my 50s, been married for over 31 years and don’t care what anyone thinks. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm definitely upper income for my area now, but I also spend almost no money on food (~$50 a week when i am splurging), I straight up own my car (which is also a hobby expense), I share a rundown townhouse with a roommate so my rent is extremely low, and I have been working nearly 80 hours a week because I enjoy working. I also wait to buy anything until I can afford it without hurting my savings largely because I used to be essentially homeless and living on $100 a month.
Do a video on net worth. Many people don’t think they can retire, because they have no idea what their net worth is and don’t understand that spending habits can be modified.
Buying expensive clothes without visible logos/branding.
I always thought of myself as middle Middle Class for our family as I am a sole bread winner of 4 in our family. When doing my net worth we are more in the top 10% for my age 49.
99.9% of American Citizens has more in common with a homeless person on the street than a billionaire. You aren’t lower, middle, or upper. You are WORKING class and the bank owns the majority of “your” stuff.
Not having any debt is huge. The day I paid off my mortgage is the day I joined the upper middle class.
I still have fixed bills, of course, but they’re only about 30% of my net income, and that means crazy saving and investing rates while still living a great life.
Having become quite well-off, it took me a about ten years not to worry about small purchases. I do buy brand-name products if they are actually superior, otherwise I don't.
Yes, I've never had any significant debt - I did have a mortgage for a few years, but I decided it wasn't worth the tax deduction and paid it off.
I love the section about being dilegent with your money. Most people I know that have well over a million liquid got that way by controlling their spending, as much has having high earnings.
Your right about millionaires spending habits and yes no debt at all.
I like the amended list. I didn’t start looking into this stuff until after our first child started applying for college. Unfortunately, we hit all of the items on the amended list just 2 years ago. The federal government doesn’t care that we have only had breathing room for 2 years. So we had 2 years of not worrying about finances and now we get to be stressed out again. 😅
Eating out without worrying or small purchases can mean you are on the upper end because you might not do it all the time but when you do it you don’t have to care
Thanks to the internet I could be sick in peace during this pregnancy 👌🏾 tips like emergency found good insurance etc saved me
I don't spend much time worrying about class titles. I know that I am okay. I retired 20 years ago at 54 and became debt free. I have about $150k income and paid medical. I trade the market with IRA accounts and cash accounts. I have a couple T-bills ladders and cash in money mkt accounts. We are renovating our home. This year, driveway, kitchen, new landscaping and update 2 bathrooms.
You're squarely in the upper middle class, if not rich.
I’m a Costco member. You see a lot of high end cars in the parking lot. A wealthy person is more interested in value than brand names.
What identifies upper middle class in my mind is a mother at home dedicated to the children. The children are likely highly skilled by the age of 12 years in a wide range of areas, Dad is engaged in his children’s lives, etc….
Basically, people are not needing to sacrifice the most important things in life, just to survive.
Great definition
Fine for identifying people with a family, but it does disregard single people or people who don't have children.
@@skektek people should have children
Also, most dual income families are going to lap that family you speak of (if they’re savvy with their planning)
My wife wouldnt make much more than childcare for our 3 children anyways. While we might not have the income of dual families, with minor lifestyle changes, not engaging FOMO- I do believe my children's future to as solid as any other.
Okay Erin, $1.8MM here, plus monthly pensions and social security from high earnings. We do shop Costco. And we now buy (no gaudy labels) nice clothes, shoes, luggage, backpacks and other travel things. (After 30 years of buying cheap stuff to get where we are). We split spending on generic and brand names after testing the quality. Date night dinner Thursday at the local, plus one lunch a week. Eight to ten weeks on the road a year. Two weeks Spring and Fall international plus the rest domestic. We hire a house sitter for our 2 cute rescue dogs. Rover is actually cheaper than a good kennel.
I use rover as well….i hate the idea of my pup in a kennel and I have found some amazing sitters with big backyards for fetch!!
The amount you can borrow and service each month in principal and interest might actually be the best indication of class in the U.S. Net worth often has little to do with lifestyle. But lifestyle is all about managing debt or lack there of.
I am not there yet but for me to move beyond middle class, I would like to have enough savings to live comfortably (ability to travel, buy fairly nice things for myself without worrying about money, being able to afford care or a nursing home if needed etc.) until the age of 100. Of course, nobody knows what will happen in life but knowing fully well that your savings will last until you are 100 is a good feeling.
I was upper-middle, but I went so far beyond that I've wrapped around to the other side. In 2024, if I don't go back to work, I will be "poor" by income standards, but certainly not by net worth. I'm probably not going to allow this to happen because I'd like to be able to have a job that can cover most of my expenses for the year as well as trying part-time work. Also, I don't want my personal tax deduction go to waste.
If you have that much net worth and you would continue to work - full/part-time ' so your "personal tax dedcution" doesn't go to waste, are you saying that your net worth is not generating any cash flow? Because if it is and that cash is greater then your personal tax deduction ... well, you know what i'm saying.
Really great video
My indicator was when I do not check if my company actually paid me, or if the amount is correct. I work for a large corporation, so I feel like I could trust the system to be honest.
I agree with this statement. I am middle class and I never bother to look at paystubs. It goes up and down a little based on holiday pay, hours, etc, but I don't bother to check to see if it was done correctly. A few bucks here and there are just not worth my time to look.
What’s wrong with you two? You should always check your paystub even if you’re salaried! They could be claiming sick time that you didn’t call out for, changing your pay period so that a couple of days go missing or deducting benefits that you aren’t receiving and you’d be none the wiser!
@@JakoWakoI think your missing the point. This is a discussion of signs you are in the middle class. Not worrying about small dollar amounts in a paycheck is one of them. Your response suggests your not in the middle class, or just really concerned about every dollar. You do you.
@@staceman7981 Having a mindset of “I’m so unconcerned about my finances that I don’t check if my employer has committed wage theft and even if they did it’s fine because I can afford it” is a bigger sign of being a complete pushover as opposed to being wealthy. Odds are that if your employer/manager (a person that makes more than you) caught you stealing a couple of dollars you’d be reprimanded.
to be honest we are doing better than we think. the only debt is our house which is on a 15 year mortgage and we are 2 years ahead of the payments. a fully funded ef of 6 months. we dont pay anything for health ins. its fully covered by the union. i recently found 3k in cash at my house which i had completely forgotten about. and i have about 6k in cigars in my cigar humidor. we are also putting 48k a year into retirement. and im 7 years away from a 30year pension in the teamsters. we have accomplished most of this in the last 7 years. we were asleep at the wheel until 44 years old. you just have to be willing to do the work
My cousin is in a union and he gets his healthcare through the union. Free? Hardly, he says $21 out of each hours pay is deducted for health insurance. I wonder how much of that is skimmed off for the fat cats? Unions are not your friend. They’re about to take Ford and GM to the trash heap. Bailouts will follow.
While abuse at unions is always a danger, that doesn't mean unions aren't useful to help workers attain a fair deal from management.
@@dougandersen645And here you are, broke and complaining. Unions saved the middle class. Red states have no middle class because of ‘right to work.’
@dougandersen645 do you realize how much 21.00 for every hour worked would be. He's clearly mistaken or you are. Union employment has been very good to me for 23 years. I will be retired in 7 years and 3 months. At the age of 58 And be collecting 6200.00 a month pension. This year I will make 95k taxable income while working a 4 day work week. Seems good to me
You look great!! 😁
Great video! Thanks for linking the calculator.
Not related, but my wife and I were wondering where you got that fiddle leaf fig in the background. Looks fantastic!
I get all my house plants at Home Depot! 😊they have a great selection!
Our household of four lives on $218k. We have a nice, modest sized newer home and two 7&8 year old vehicles. Our kids do competitive travel sports. We lived better when inflation didn’t explode our insurance. Our health insurance costs are crazy. I don’t feel upper middle class sometimes.