SH-4d Voice Count, Note Stealing and other questions
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- Including how smooth are pattern to pattern transitions? Is the Arp Global? How are the 60 voices allocated and what does that mean in reality?
Answering some of the questions I've been asked a few times now... so maybe others are looking for the same info?
Lots of questions... and I have some of the answers ;)
/ starskycarr
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• From The Studio
0:00 what this all about?
0:24 voice count/note stealing.. is it an issue?
6:06 does it hold nots over from pattern to pattern?
7:24 any delays or glitches between patterns?
7:59 is the arpeggiator global or per track?
#sh4d #roland #tutorial #review
60 voices is luxury compared to the instruments they are based upon
Must say, your series has been excellent. I’m not even in the market for one but still found them helpful. This is how it’s done 👍
Just wanted to say thanks for all these comprehensive yet accessible videos on the SH-4D. I felt like I was ready to go when my unit arrived yesterday and didn’t have to refer to the manual too much. I look forward to seeing what else you do with it. Roland owes you big for this roll out!
This answers a ton of questions I had! Thank you for this! Great groove by the way!
Enjoying these on the SH,now got gas,great stuff Starsky
I received mine very quickly and your videos on the subject have been entertaining and informative - as per the usche.
I can’t see it being a problem for most people. If I was making a bit of Detroit techno, acid house or prog house.. it would be a rare thing that 3 out of the four synth tracks weren’t running monosynths. Id forgotten how Roland changed its lingo from “oscilators” to “polyphony” when it comes to their marketing. It was the same for my XP-50 almost 30 years ago. Ive never ran out of voices.. but worth knowing!
Thanks for these great detailed explorations!
Great video, very useful as always!
Very informative, thanks!
This is a winner I believe. Roland may end up competing with their own MC-line yet a very nice machine.
Really enjoyed your series on this baby, 60 voice is a limitation but so is having to plug something into AC or go through 6 menu layers....and... this is the first firmware version. cf MC101 when it came out against now. Ive really enjoyed your demos.
With every day I am happier with the decision to get the MC-101... Poly count never an issue
Roland are notorious for their "each oscillator is a voice actually" polyphony accounting
'4 layer voice architecture' hahahah
I think i'm buying one this week.
It doesn't have a sequencer, but IMHO the JV1080 blows this away. It's got 64 polyphony, and multiple outs. And way better classic keyboard sounds, and more PCM. The PCM on this one is beyond lacking. Oh and the MC707 takes this to town.
I e got a 707 here, just haven’t had time to play with it yet.
Thank you!
Somehow my good old Roland MC-505 could do more with eight tracks of sounds made each of four voices, with a polyphony of... I don't know how much but I never felt a limitation on pads...
But I still want a SH-4D, because it sounds good and seems to be a lot of fun 🙂
The MC808.. 128 polyphony over 16 tracks.. They're just using the cheapest processors they can get away with.
Thanks for the informative video.
Are there samples from the Roland CR-78 drum machine or just the usual TR stuff?
I think the JDXi can do more …???…I like it, anyway.Thanks for sharing!
This is the way
I’ve made 2 patterns which are meant to be joined together, and the last note of the first pattern is held over to the second pattern, as you demonstrated. Question is, do we know if there’s a way to stop that from happening? Sometimes you don’t want the notes to keep going as it can cause dissonance
Really helpful. Voice stealing was a problem for me on the MC-707.
Yeah it really depends on what you’re going to use it for, with what, and the style of music you make. Hopefully this answers those questions. It’ll be fine for some, but maybe limited for others.
For me too...
@@gorogne The MC-707 has decent pianos and e-pianos and you can now record the sustain pedal, add some pad backing tracks and the voice stealing starts becoming really noticeable which is a pity as sonically it sounds superb.
@@RikMaxSpeed Yes, unfortunately. Otherwise the box is great. But that's really annoying
Great video answering the last questions I had before buying this wonderful unit. I don't see the SH-4d on the thomann page yet, does it still pay you affiliate money when ordering there (although its not in your list). Cheers!
Thanks for thinking of me :). If you click on my Thomann link before you purchase it should recognise you came via my general link. I'll upload a direct link once its available.
@@snorrevonflake Oh yeah.. thanks I couldn't find it because I'm an idiot! I've updated the links cheers.
@@snorrevonflake let’s hope some of them clicked on my links 😂😂
Excellent video as always! Do you know if the arpeggiator is locked into the sequence? In other words, can the arp be activated and turned off on a track that is using the internal sequencer, or is it "burned into" the sequence?
You can turn it on and off on the active track or record it then move to another track. What you can’t do is start running the arp on one track and leave it running when moving to another track - it stops once you select the next track, which is why I recorded the arps.
@@StarskyCarr Thanks! Dang that’s too bad. Always love turning an arp into a chord in a live scenario or vice versa.
Thanks for looking into the Polyphony limit Roland has liked to use the misleading term “voice “ since way back when they came up with the parcel term I believe. Was curious how this one juiced out the DSP in comparison to Zen core as it uses 5 voices worth of dsp power per super saw Osc and additional voices for the modeled filters if I recall correctly for two examples .
The difference here I think is that the effects aren’t considered voices so the CPU hit isn’t counted the same. I’ve been assuming g that it’s 60 synth/drum oscillators plus 4 global effects and 5 track effects. This seems to work so I’m going with that for now 😂
The difference here I think is that the effects aren’t considered voices so the CPU hit isn’t counted the same. I’ve been assuming g that it’s 60 synth/drum oscillators plus 4 global effects and 5 track effects. This seems to work so I’m going with that for now 😂
@@StarskyCarr moors law and Roland’s penchant for trickle down technology hit a sweet spot together this time . Cheers!
Starsky, is there any settings/parameters for analogue behavior?
yes 'analog feel' in the tone settings. it adds random detune (0-99)
if you are on the fence just buy it.
Thanks for answering the arpeggiator question. Now when you had multiple tracks with arpeggiators running at once, these were the recordings of what the arpeggios put out to the sequencer, right? So even if each track has its own arpeggiator SETTINGS, there still is only one arpeggiator, right? Or can you hold an arpeggio on one track, then switch to another track and use the arpeggiator there, without the already running arpeggiator to stop? Like you can , say, on an elektron Digitone which has an arpeggiator per track??
aah gotcha... no, you can't hold one then move to the next track. when you select another track it stops...just checked
I was going to ask the same thing, if arpeggiators could run simultaneously, I guess not. So you recorded the arps into the sequencer then? It’s still handy for having different arp settings when you flip from track to track though.
If you record a long chord into the sequencer, then while playing it back, turn on the arp, does it arpeggiate the notes in the sequencer track?
@@StarskyCarr Thanks for checking. So sad, that would have been a great performance tool - let a track do its arpeggio without having to record up-front. Or, like "I love cats and Synths" said, putting a track in 1/4 note per step mode (which sadly isn't available as well), turning on the track arpeggiator, record 1/4 notes on all 64 steps, and so having changing arpeggios play over 16 bars from one track... again, the digitone can do this. On all four tracks at the same time.
@@valuemastery We can at least hope that this is something that can be fixed in a software update. I bought knowing full well it behaved like this - but I have a Keystep Pro, which *can* do that, so I already have the ability. Just not on this device by its lonesome.
I don’t think this was answered in your other videos, but are the FX parameters (inserts and sends) modulatable?
The sends are at least (I’ve not tried anything else)
Have you tried using it as sequencer for external gear? If so did it work well?
not tried that yet.
Unfortunately, when using USB audio, I hear audio from both the DAW and the device itself. The sound is doubled. It is unclear how to leave only the sound that comes from USB (DAW). Without this setting, multitrack recording doesn't make much sense.
I like the idea of a plugin with a hardware sound engine and knobs to tweak, but I'm not convinced that I like these more than the synth plugins that sell for way less, run better on my M1/2 ARM CPU, and can be HW controlled by my Rev2. That being said, I most definitely know that I will never rent plugins that require my hardware to run. I guess, I've been finding it impossible to give Roland any money for the past 20 years, and I'm still on the fence. For the first time in those 20 years though, I'm actually wondering about it, so progress is being made!
Does this have an auto channel or do you need to switch midi channels on your controller to control individual tracks? Thx
No … or at least I’ve not found it.
@@StarskyCarr Ok thanks! Would it be possible to do a quick video demonstrating the quality of the filter under various conditions - pads, leads, keys, high res, low res, drive, etc. That would would be very cool.
Forgive my stupidity. Tell me, is it possible or is it possible to pan voices, and probably the filter is common to all?
You can pan each track and individual drum sounds. The filter is per drum sound and per track also. Watch my other videos it’s all in there.
I thank you for a quick and clear answer! This is very rare! Thank you very much! Absolute respect!
I don't think some people understand how this groove box can work, you can make partials and stack, but when you go full steam and try to 5 parts like the Juno X, you will fall flat on your face.
60 voices may appear to be a lot, but it's really not when you see how quickly these voices get used up.
If you intend to use this as a song making machine, forget it, but if you want to have it work with other gear, I think it's a perfect easy hands on device that will add to songs, but not be the brains of it, if this makes sense?
I don't know, I've heard plenty of great sounding songs just from the youtubers who have gotten them already. I know what you're trying to say but I think it's less of an issue than some may make it out to be.
Totally , they keep repeating in their rollout that it is a SYNTHESIZER not a groove box. It’s for sound design so you can sample or feed into your DAW. People want it to be a groove box so bad smh
@Rosseloh - I'd disagree, I've heard nothing but generic muzak from all the shills on youtube, and repeating 4 bars ad nauseum does not equal a song.
Muzak… shills…. !! Gosh, I’m in a state of unprecedented stupefaction 🤣
@@StarskyCarr lol
That's slightly disappointing about the voice limit - I've always understood one voice as including *all* the oscillators for a given sound. I don't imagine I'll run into the limit often or at all, but it's still something I think should probably be a bit more prominent in their marketing, even as a footnote...
Its the same language they use on the zencore stuff - and they use it because each type of oscillator can use very different amounts of processing power.
@@StarskyCarr Makes sense, I'm not familiar with any of their other new stuff.
@@StarskyCarr so fx dont count as "voices"?
@@claudiongleur No.. its like there's a reverb, delay and chorus added to the mix, plus a multi FX on every track and another on the final mix.