FANTASTIC video! I've said this for years, but never had the data to back it up. I have advocated going to one standard ball, with a slightly smaller diameter than is used now, and smaller holes. (Pickleball specs were originally determined, not by the needs of the game, but by the products available for a completely different game for kids! Let's start over with Pickleball in mind!) A SLIGHTLY smaller ball with a slightly thicker surface would decrease wind effects, and increase durability, while maintaining the same weight! A current Pickleball is larger than a Tennis ball or a baseball, while being only a fraction of the weight. No wonder wind basically ruins the outdoor games!
Obviously thickness of the ball impacts weight too. The Onix 40 outdoor ball must be thicker since it is heavier with a similar surface area. Or it could be the density of the plastic. It would be interesting to submerge the balls in water and measure water displacement to see the true volume of the ball's plastic.
Darrell, If not you who? I was impressed after seeing your thoroughness in the youtube video. Hope to see it sometime. Peter Sullivan Boston Pickleball
That experiment is easier (nerdy comments in parenthesis): Drop two similar balls at the same height and observe the bounce height. The outdoor one bounces more. Not only you have more mass (assuming drag loses are similar) but more importantly the ball is stiffer (reducing energy dissipation through elastic deformation). Intuitively, the reason why outdoor balls have a higher pitch than indoor balls.
Hi Peter. I'm not familiar with the X-40 ball. According to their website, it weighs 26 grams. It will act like any other ball that same weight. If you read their details you'll see that it really doesn't make any claims any other ball can't say too. According to the association, all pickleballs are manufactured in a narrow specification range including weight, size, and bounce. No ball can significantly outperform any other ball.
Nifty analysis. The math section scared the daylights outta me. Now about those glow-in-the-dark-versions...visual acuity and contrast matter indoors and out.
I agree. I played at a rec center down in Florida that had a somewhat washed out gym wood floor with beige lines. The ball everyone used was one of the white-ish indoor balls. It was like swatting at ghosts..
I'm a rec player. I just look for best reviews on amazon and call it a day...thanks for the scientific input! I wouldn't deny the competition cause as american business is job one!
You're right. Having holes does take away mass. But, you missed the point; because of the smaller design of the holes on the outdoor balls, they leave more mass intact than the indoor balls. I did the math. In gravity, more mass = more weight. Outdoor balls have more intact material, thus more mass. The holes only play a part two ways: when they ball is hit hard, like a golf ball's dimples, and when it is spinning at a high rate. And as I said, most recreational players are not doing that. The typical spin rate of PGA 6 iron is >6200 rpm. A pro tennis rate is >5000. No one in pball is anywhere close to that. As I said in the video, this is a recreational pball situation, and that I invited comments by some 5.0 players.. I also clearly said that ALL pickleballs are influenced by wind. Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment.
FANTASTIC video! I've said this for years, but never had the data to back it up. I have advocated going to one standard ball, with a slightly smaller diameter than is used now, and smaller holes. (Pickleball specs were originally determined, not by the needs of the game, but by the products available for a completely different game for kids! Let's start over with Pickleball in mind!) A SLIGHTLY smaller ball with a slightly thicker surface would decrease wind effects, and increase durability, while maintaining the same weight! A current Pickleball is larger than a Tennis ball or a baseball, while being only a fraction of the weight. No wonder wind basically ruins the outdoor games!
Obviously thickness of the ball impacts weight too. The Onix 40 outdoor ball must be thicker since it is heavier with a similar surface area. Or it could be the density of the plastic. It would be interesting to submerge the balls in water and measure water displacement to see the true volume of the ball's plastic.
Thank you for your analysis. It was helpful. Now how about the bounce? Do balls with less mass have a lower bounce?
Haven't done that yet. I thought about it, but it seemed like too much work at the time.
Darrell, If not you who? I was impressed after seeing your thoroughness in the youtube video. Hope to see it sometime. Peter Sullivan Boston Pickleball
Thanks, Peter. Kind of you to say.
That experiment is easier (nerdy comments in parenthesis): Drop two similar balls at the same height and observe the bounce height. The outdoor one bounces more. Not only you have more mass (assuming drag loses are similar) but more importantly the ball is stiffer (reducing energy dissipation through elastic deformation). Intuitively, the reason why outdoor balls have a higher pitch than indoor balls.
Thank you. I truly enjoyed this.
In the floating wood vs metal analogy , mass is irrelevant. It’s the density differential between the material and water that gives it buoyancy.
Darrell..what about the new X-40 ball?
Hi Peter. I'm not familiar with the X-40 ball. According to their website, it weighs 26 grams. It will act like any other ball that same weight. If you read their details you'll see that it really doesn't make any claims any other ball can't say too. According to the association, all pickleballs are manufactured in a narrow specification range including weight, size, and bounce. No ball can significantly outperform any other ball.
Nifty analysis. The math section scared the daylights outta me. Now about those glow-in-the-dark-versions...visual acuity and contrast matter indoors and out.
I agree. I played at a rec center down in Florida that had a somewhat washed out gym wood floor with beige lines. The ball everyone used was one of the white-ish indoor balls. It was like swatting at ghosts..
I love this u tube! Now I would like to see one on texture! Bounce and slide!
I'm a rec player. I just look for best reviews on amazon and call it a day...thanks for the scientific input! I wouldn't deny the competition cause as american business is job one!
You are wrong about spin. Advanced players rarely hit a ball flat without spin. I put either topspin or backspin on virtually every shot
Dura Fast outdoor ball......Sucks.
Have tet to find a better made quality ball better than Onix.
holes take away mass, you wasted a lot of your time, it's the HOLES
You're right. Having holes does take away mass. But, you missed the point; because of the smaller design of the holes on the outdoor balls, they leave more mass intact than the indoor balls. I did the math. In gravity, more mass = more weight. Outdoor balls have more intact material, thus more mass. The holes only play a part two ways: when they ball is hit hard, like a golf ball's dimples, and when it is spinning at a high rate. And as I said, most recreational players are not doing that. The typical spin rate of PGA 6 iron is >6200 rpm. A pro tennis rate is >5000. No one in pball is anywhere close to that. As I said in the video, this is a recreational pball situation, and that I invited comments by some 5.0 players.. I also clearly said that ALL pickleballs are influenced by wind.
Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment.