Really cool video and website. I can definitely confirm the three different tiers from personal experience. I started my career at a Tier 1 company at a salary lower than your lowest data point and (after a few moves throughout the years) I'll be joining a Tier 3 company next month at literally more than 6 times that first salary.
This video is fantastic. Radical transparency like this really shows the opportunities towards the right tail of the distributions. Thanks for these great resources. No other resource comes close for the quality of this type of information in the Netherlands.
Great job! Thanks for the effort that you put to make more visible the salaries (taboo subject) for everyone (and for free!) - Keep it going, also enjoying your newsletter/blog on Substack
I can tell you my thoughts. Most likely similar start range, but in Germany you can be sure that pay above 150 k would be extremely rare, if at all even. There is one Berlin based company who boasts about 120k pay one year after being with them. So you already know that 120k is off the rails for Germany.
Great video! Could have used this two weeks ago when I started raise negotiations! Still managed to get a decent raise though, and judging from the video, did a good enough job!
As I understand it, many companies on various sites offer completely low salaries for specialists. So far, I have received good offers only by mail and Talent Service.
I think the numbers for the HFT companies are not accurate anymore. I recently went through some new grad loops and they offer 200k 1st year compensation for new grads now.
They might indeed be out of date. The market moved up about 20-30% since 2021: I will cover it in another video. Nothing beats HFTs for new grad offers. I hear they target specific universities.
@@pragmaticengineer It depends on the company. Some only hire people from target universities, others are more open to other backgrounds. I went to a university ranked between 1000 and 2000 and passed several HFT resume screenings and ended up getting a really strong offer. Aside, thank you so much for your content. It's really helpful and interesting. You help a lot of people with your work:)
Hey Gergo, fellow Amsterdammer here. First of all, amazing content, thank you! I've been binging your videos. About the how to get in section: what do you think about the chances of self-taught engineers in Europe and especially in Amsterdam? Do tier2/3 companies prefer a prestigious CS degree over a a good project portfolio or is it the other way around? Thanks, and have a good one!
Some companies have requirements on university degrees, but many no longer have it. IMO it’s always harder coming from a non-traditional background. But your last few companies are more important than your university. Except when getting your first job: you’d obviously be a disadvantage with a self-taught background than those having a recognised university on their resume. FWIW many of my colleagues at Uber were either self-taught or had no computer science degrees. But this was in the early days: it’s often easier to get into smaller startups this way than large companies that see a large amount of applications.
Why the reupload? Also there seems to be a white bar at the top of the clips where you show yourself 8:40 which I don't remember in the first one. Is this why you reuploaded?
Great video and insights! Any plans in making a similar video for the data in Germany (Munich)? I know TechPays has now data for it, but it would be nice to hear some comments :)
Gergo, why do people choose Tier 3 companies over freelance work in the Netherlands? Companies like ING offer 100€/hour and the net income seems higher even after taxes, holidays, etc. if a developer is focused on money. Why did you go to Uber and did not got to freelance?
Do they pay these crazy high salaries till retirement? I think they are like hockey players - high salary for a few years, then have to change occupation. So, the task would be to move to a senior position in the company as soon as possible or to HR, consulting, advising etc.
This is really the top of top insight over the market. What I wonder is with “experience” what eu companies really mean? Currently I’m 10+ years experience since college and have web, embedded and game development experience. So when I apply for a job either in these areas or a totally new area how would I treated? Am I beginning from scratch like another one just graduated? Or how should I negotiate since I possibly had 3-4 years of experience on that area at the past and feel diffident or outdated…
Amazing video Gergely, although I'm not located in Amesterdam is always good to have this type of context. Two questions, what software do you use to do the graphics? And what software do you use to show the data points?
Aaaand from this salary please substract, rental price, food expanses, general life expanses and will see what remains just because of the cost of living... just like in every other country. Conclusion: Choose the country not by how much you earn but rather how much you like the living in that country itself.
thank you for posting these. was wondering if you can do something similar in Spain? really looking to try to move to that country in about a year and would like to know how hard I should negotiate to get a salary similar to what i have currently. thanks!
Very informative video! Do you believe a late career changer can achieve get into these companies?or age and lack of experience is prohibitive? Mechanical engineer (29yr old) here transitioning to quant.
Great video! Saw the first one, watching, liking and commenting for the algorithm. I'm a QA Engineer - what sort of pay discrepancy is there for QA vs development?
Thanks! QA engineer is one that I’ve seen very few “Tier 3” places employ any more as engineers write their own tests and exploratory testing is outsourced so I have little sample size. I’ll assume it pays either in-line or somewhat below dev positions. It depends really how much development expertise the place hiring for expects.
@@pragmaticengineer Thanks for the reply! Right, seems like I'll have to make the switch over to Dev/SDET eventually then. Is there a bias against people switching form QA in Big Tech?
@@ragrerules I'd love to say "no", but of course there is, similar to how if e.g. a PM applied for an engineering job (even if they know how to code). There's an assumption that you're not as technical. Recruiters will prioritize your resume below those with the title Software Engineer or Developer. Switching is always easier in-house.
Hey, would you say the market for data scientists is in general pretty similar? Or is it typical to earn less/more as a data scientist? I'm not sure how all of this would translate into data-related positions.
I’d say data scientists is the same for Tier 1, perhaps somewhat below for Tier 2 and especially Tier 3. At Uber the levels were the same it’s just there was no Staff Data Scientist in Amsterdam (which would have been similar compensation as eg Staff Software Engineer).
To what I see, there's little difference in compensation for security engineers and software engineers. Obviously there's fewer positions, but a Sr Security Engineer would typically get the same offer at almost all companies as a Sr Software Engineer. True for the top of the market at least.
Hey, Really nice video. Do you think the Tier3 companies are growing more in Netherland. Among Europe and uk, which city will you consider having the best tech opportunities
This is very helpful. Can you please talk about what companies in Netherlands look for someone to hire right out of University. And please talk a bit about Data Scientist opportunities in the Netherlands.
@Kashan I don't cover data science, only software engineering and engineering management. I stick to areas I can go deep in. My friend in Amsterdam is building www.nextround.cc for data scientists though! For hiring right out of university: it's a tough market right now for new grads. Wrote more about it here: blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-tech-workers-to-navigate-a-heated-job-market/
This is outdated. Salary in Bay Area for Sr. Software Engineer is in the range of 350K to 550K. This is normal in the US now. Europe has to do a lot of catch-ups.
The problem with Europe is, that there are a lot of old people who do not want to change with time. They do not want to accept the higher salary as a new norm and rather lose a lot in business but not pay someone so that loss can be averted. it's like an old grandma thinking.
@@KorayKüpe whats the average salary for Java developer in Amsaterdam with 8-10 years of exp.I get around 4000 eur pm in India itself and cost of living in India is atleast 6-10 times cheaper coimpared to Netherlands
Hlo sir I have a quary please suggest. I am civil engineer and placed in tcs as assistant system engineer at starting CTC of in 3.36 LPA.. Should I remain in my domain or switch to IT? Is joining tcs is worth for me or not? Please suggest sir..
Quoting what I said which is correct: "This war is the biggest war since Word War 2 in Europe." I hate to tell you how neither Irak, Livi, nor Vietnam are part of Europe. The war in Ukraine started by Putin is the single biggest war since WW2 in all of Europe.
i would like to support ukraine, but as a descendant of victims of the bandera massacres (only my grandmother and her brother survived) i find it difficult. in ukraine they celebrate these war criminal as a hero.
Really cool video and website.
I can definitely confirm the three different tiers from personal experience. I started my career at a Tier 1 company at a salary lower than your lowest data point and (after a few moves throughout the years) I'll be joining a Tier 3 company next month at literally more than 6 times that first salary.
This video is fantastic. Radical transparency like this really shows the opportunities towards the right tail of the distributions. Thanks for these great resources. No other resource comes close for the quality of this type of information in the Netherlands.
Great job! Thanks for the effort that you put to make more visible the salaries (taboo subject) for everyone (and for free!) - Keep it going, also enjoying your newsletter/blog on Substack
Informative and resourceful video, thanks for all the effort that went into collecting, sorting through, and presenting the data!
These are great stats , I was surprised to see many websites misleading with indicating very low salary ranges in Netherlands.
So it seems like the salaries in Europe are 1/2 of what we're paid in the US. I'm not exaggerating. These salaries are shockingly low.
And dont forget the taxes are twice as high in europe.
@@hki6mq You do realize how wild of a statement this is, right
very interesting info, hoping to see more info for other countries soon, namely Spain. Best of luck!
Great video! Would love to see a similar analysis for Germany!
Thank you very much for supporting Ukraine, for supporting us!
Thanks for this video. what are your thoughts on similar topic about Germany? How much variance one can expect.
I can tell you my thoughts. Most likely similar start range, but in Germany you can be sure that pay above 150 k would be extremely rare, if at all even. There is one Berlin based company who boasts about 120k pay one year after being with them. So you already know that 120k is off the rails for Germany.
Nem ismertem ezt a csatornát eddig, de örülök, hogy rátaláltam :).
Great video! Could have used this two weeks ago when I started raise negotiations! Still managed to get a decent raise though, and judging from the video, did a good enough job!
This is equal to lifetime investigation. Thank you very ,much for sharing
This is quite an insightful research. Really helpful.
Optiver’s salary for new grad is €200k+, not €86k as what you showed :) Also IMC pays new grads around €150k, not seniors.
Great video ! Thank you very much
As I understand it, many companies on various sites offer completely low salaries for specialists. So far, I have received good offers only by mail and Talent Service.
I think the numbers for the HFT companies are not accurate anymore. I recently went through some new grad loops and they offer 200k 1st year compensation for new grads now.
They might indeed be out of date. The market moved up about 20-30% since 2021: I will cover it in another video.
Nothing beats HFTs for new grad offers. I hear they target specific universities.
@@pragmaticengineer It depends on the company. Some only hire people from target universities, others are more open to other backgrounds. I went to a university ranked between 1000 and 2000 and passed several HFT resume screenings and ended up getting a really strong offer.
Aside, thank you so much for your content. It's really helpful and interesting. You help a lot of people with your work:)
@@pm-ef4ee Can you list some good HFTs with Hefty Pay?
@@maanilverma6888 what isa HFT
Hey Gergo, fellow Amsterdammer here. First of all, amazing content, thank you! I've been binging your videos.
About the how to get in section: what do you think about the chances of self-taught engineers in Europe and especially in Amsterdam? Do tier2/3 companies prefer a prestigious CS degree over a a good project portfolio or is it the other way around?
Thanks, and have a good one!
Some companies have requirements on university degrees, but many no longer have it.
IMO it’s always harder coming from a non-traditional background. But your last few companies are more important than your university. Except when getting your first job: you’d obviously be a disadvantage with a self-taught background than those having a recognised university on their resume.
FWIW many of my colleagues at Uber were either self-taught or had no computer science degrees. But this was in the early days: it’s often easier to get into smaller startups this way than large companies that see a large amount of applications.
@@SpoonfedPig would you have preferred to stay in Amsterdam if you could make the same or close?
Hey thank you for this video, I was wondering how these salaries compare to London?
Why the reupload? Also there seems to be a white bar at the top of the clips where you show yourself 8:40 which I don't remember in the first one. Is this why you reuploaded?
I re-uploaded because the original video had the audio out of sync and there was no way to replace the original one.
Nice! Please do a similar survey and report for London
Great video and insights! Any plans in making a similar video for the data in Germany (Munich)? I know TechPays has now data for it, but it would be nice to hear some comments :)
Gergo, why do people choose Tier 3 companies over freelance work in the Netherlands? Companies like ING offer 100€/hour and the net income seems higher even after taxes, holidays, etc. if a developer is focused on money. Why did you go to Uber and did not got to freelance?
Do they pay these crazy high salaries till retirement? I think they are like hockey players - high salary for a few years, then have to change occupation. So, the task would be to move to a senior position in the company as soon as possible or to HR, consulting, advising etc.
This is really the top of top insight over the market. What I wonder is with “experience” what eu companies really mean? Currently I’m 10+ years experience since college and have web, embedded and game development experience. So when I apply for a job either in these areas or a totally new area how would I treated? Am I beginning from scratch like another one just graduated? Or how should I negotiate since I possibly had 3-4 years of experience on that area at the past and feel diffident or outdated…
Awesome insights Gergely, thanks!
Could you also share what kind of drawing sw you use to create those awesome graphs? :)
Thanks! It’s Excalidraw.
Amazing video Gergely, although I'm not located in Amesterdam is always good to have this type of context. Two questions, what software do you use to do the graphics? And what software do you use to show the data points?
Please make a video for tax calculation and deduction in each country
Great video. Interesting that there are no data points from people that work at ASML
Aaaand from this salary please substract, rental price, food expanses, general life expanses and will see what remains just because of the cost of living... just like in every other country. Conclusion: Choose the country not by how much you earn but rather how much you like the living in that country itself.
do you also happen to have a video on salary raises, is changing jobs only way to substantially increase salary
thank you for posting these. was wondering if you can do something similar in Spain? really looking to try to move to that country in about a year and would like to know how hard I should negotiate to get a salary similar to what i have currently. thanks!
What a senior CV looks like? ... do you have a video like that?
Very informative video! Do you believe a late career changer can achieve get into these companies?or age and lack of experience is prohibitive? Mechanical engineer (29yr old) here transitioning to quant.
Amazing! do you also have/know where to get data for sales ppl?
Great video! Saw the first one, watching, liking and commenting for the algorithm. I'm a QA Engineer - what sort of pay discrepancy is there for QA vs development?
Thanks! QA engineer is one that I’ve seen very few “Tier 3” places employ any more as engineers write their own tests and exploratory testing is outsourced so I have little sample size.
I’ll assume it pays either in-line or somewhat below dev positions. It depends really how much development expertise the place hiring for expects.
@@pragmaticengineer Thanks for the reply! Right, seems like I'll have to make the switch over to Dev/SDET eventually then. Is there a bias against people switching form QA in Big Tech?
@@ragrerules I'd love to say "no", but of course there is, similar to how if e.g. a PM applied for an engineering job (even if they know how to code). There's an assumption that you're not as technical. Recruiters will prioritize your resume below those with the title Software Engineer or Developer.
Switching is always easier in-house.
Hey, would you say the market for data scientists is in general pretty similar? Or is it typical to earn less/more as a data scientist? I'm not sure how all of this would translate into data-related positions.
I’d say data scientists is the same for Tier 1, perhaps somewhat below for Tier 2 and especially Tier 3. At Uber the levels were the same it’s just there was no Staff Data Scientist in Amsterdam (which would have been similar compensation as eg Staff Software Engineer).
@@pragmaticengineer Thank you! This definitely gives me some food for thought :)
Very informative and interesting videos. Do you have any data points for Security Engineers ?
To what I see, there's little difference in compensation for security engineers and software engineers. Obviously there's fewer positions, but a Sr Security Engineer would typically get the same offer at almost all companies as a Sr Software Engineer. True for the top of the market at least.
can i get an idea of junior data analyst salaries based on the entry level positions mentioned on this video?
compared to other top 4 countries in EU Italy is not paying well at all
Wow isn't 30k in Amsterdam poverty?
Thanks for doing this. The salaries are gross or net?
All gross! Net salaries depend on e.g. whether you have the 30% ruling or not.
Hey, Really nice video. Do you think the Tier3 companies are growing more in Netherland. Among Europe and uk, which city will you consider having the best tech opportunities
It seems there is not so much position for juniors...
This is very helpful. Can you please talk about what companies in Netherlands look for someone to hire right out of University. And please talk a bit about Data Scientist opportunities in the Netherlands.
@Kashan I don't cover data science, only software engineering and engineering management. I stick to areas I can go deep in. My friend in Amsterdam is building www.nextround.cc for data scientists though!
For hiring right out of university: it's a tough market right now for new grads. Wrote more about it here: blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-tech-workers-to-navigate-a-heated-job-market/
@@pragmaticengineer Thank for the reply. 👍🏽
This is outdated. Salary in Bay Area for Sr. Software Engineer is in the range of 350K to 550K. This is normal in the US now. Europe has to do a lot of catch-ups.
The problem with Europe is, that there are a lot of old people who do not want to change with time. They do not want to accept the higher salary as a new norm and rather lose a lot in business but not pay someone so that loss can be averted. it's like an old grandma thinking.
Any data of softener engineer salary t ASML netherlands
Hey, some of the links provided in the description are broken
Thanks, Boris! Just fixed them.
Are these salaries before or after tax?
Just commenting for the algo. I saw the first upload :P
Whatever salary you mentioned is after tax or take home salary?
I think it is all pre-tax.
Is salary of 65K EUR a good(decent) salary for 8 years Java dev?
You should come to the US and you'll make 200k
@@Eric-xh9ee I save around $5000 USD in India itself when adjusted for PPP.Its tough to get USA work visa anyway.
@@KorayKüpe whats the average salary for Java developer in Amsaterdam with 8-10 years of exp.I get around 4000 eur pm in India itself and cost of living in India is atleast 6-10 times cheaper coimpared to Netherlands
Hlo sir I have a quary please suggest.
I am civil engineer and placed in tcs as assistant system engineer at starting CTC of in 3.36 LPA..
Should I remain in my domain or switch to IT?
Is joining tcs is worth for me or not?
Please suggest sir..
Scope of software tester in Netherlands
Sorry, but you're not correct: the war in Ukraine is not the biggest since ww2. Just google casualties in wars with Irak, Livia, Vietnam.
Quoting what I said which is correct: "This war is the biggest war since Word War 2 in Europe."
I hate to tell you how neither Irak, Livi, nor Vietnam are part of Europe.
The war in Ukraine started by Putin is the single biggest war since WW2 in all of Europe.
@@pragmaticengineer alright, got your point
y;all getting payed way less then the USA
Lol. Wait I already watched this one today
Yes - re-uploaded as the audio was out of sync and only noticed once it was out! Sorry.
@@pragmaticengineer All good. Grate content !
i would like to support ukraine, but as a descendant of victims of the bandera massacres (only my grandmother and her brother survived) i find it difficult. in ukraine they celebrate these war criminal as a hero.