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I had stumbled upon your channel, as would often scoop for air crash or aircraft incident videos. And now that we see the range of videos, the production quantity and the measured narration of your 🤍💙videos👌🏽.. it only makes us want more. Thank you so much for your elaborate work. And thank you to the Patreon subscribers too. I too hope to chip in, but in my country the restrictions would only mandate a limited direct transfer to recipient's (your) bank account only. I hope to be able to do something sooner though. Thanks again.
While most here are deciding, judging, cussing and name-calling Odile Mirrior (the passenger who pulled the emergency brakes). I, with my tiny little brain, am wondering as to how us South Asians/ Asians get unwarranted ridicule over our customs or cultures. . But here, in an allegedly "western" country, it was okay for teenagers to regularly get pregnant. That too possibly underage teenagers at that. . For her kids to be school going (even if pre-school) and her being about 21 years of age. Her kid or (multiple) kids obviously were born when she was a teenager. . For someone who herself was a kid, barely forced into adulthood (with her planned or unplanned pregnancy)... ... the people commenting here seem to be overly judgemental, I think. The imbecilic morons calling her Karen, selfish and what not.. have themselves possibly erased their own conscience... and thus cannot see all the wrongs that they have done in their own lives. . And while I am in no way validating what Odile Mirrior (the 21 year young kid/ passenger) did. I can easily step into that person's shoes and reflect on my own life choices... prior to foul mouthing others. . That the company (despite being a PSU/ Public Sector Undertaking) could disown liability.. kind of goes to show how broken our legal systems are... when we need them most. #gut #wrenching
I'm pretty sure he could have done both. Give two immediately evacuate orders over intercom fast and run like a wind. This could have saved his life well as passengers.
@@cccenturion4480 I saw a documentary on this accident long ago, I was positively sure that Andre Tanguy received the Légion d'Honneur for his actions, but now I cant find any evidence for this anymore
She was a young woman trying to pick up her children, who, presumably, were also very young-and the train was unexpectedly bypassing her stop. In her mind, that WAS an emergency, I would imagine.
The actual problem - was this: The train crew, after resetting the ONE valve, didn't check all valves in that area, nor did they "perform" a required BRAKE CHECK, that most (I won't say all, as some railway employees never remember - and some others simply don't think) - should remember to do - after EVERY emergency application. If the crew had performed an engine to end of train brake check - that incorrectly operated valve, would have been found & correctly fixed, meaning that t was the crew, in a HURRY that forgot to correctly check all brakes after flipping one valve off (and inadvertently closing another). The passenger who activated the emergency lever, NEVER interfered with the other control, which the engineer or his guard "operated".
@@QUIX4U We know she is not the real resposible for the accident but... But she is the PIVOTAL POINT and remembering she is, that means “this disaster would not have happened if I did not do that”. Not blaming her... Just saying that it's a really heavy burden already.
Yeh, she shouldn't have pulled the chord. But she couldn't have reasonably forseen the consequences in this case. I would say she should have been fined the penalty for pulling the chord in a non-emergency situation but that's ad far as any action should have been taken against her. The driver amd guard on that service should have had the relevant training to know how to reset an emergency brake application and to realise something was wrong when the brakes were still applied after the reset.
Its WAS an emergency in her case since she was still getting used to the new timetable and didn't realize the train wouldn't stop there. You actually we all would've done the same thing if we were in her shoes.
There is no mention here of a crucial fact: the valve that caused all the problem was an obsolete model whose operation was contrary to standards, thus contributing to the problem: when positioned the standard way for open or close, it worked the opposite way.
@@mauricedavis2160 You are welcome. I got it from an approximately one-hour long episode of a French series (could its name be Code Rouge? Code Red?) on catastrophes. It was very detailed.
@@mauricedavis2160 Although it made no difference, the details about the brake were back to front. On railway braking, air is used to RELEASE the brake, rather than apply it. As well as not allowing the train to run away when it is shut down on the sidings and the compressors have no electricity supply, the same is true if the power is cut while the train is in motion, otherwise the train would have no way of stopping. The train would also have no brakes in event of a fracture in the pipework or a compressor failure. What they did on the carriages was lock the air INTO the callipers, something that should only be done on one carriage in event of a fault, followed by careful driving. Or to get the train at crawling speed off the main line if more than one carriage is involved. These valves are normally only used by engineers during brake maintenance and testing. What happened on this occasion, showed that the driver did not understand the system. However, after having problems, any right minded driver would have tested the braking ability of his train, rather than drive off at high speed. Even a learner car driver after having problems with his brakes, would probably not fly off down the road at 60mph towards a downhill slope. We should expect better from a professional train driver. PS. Needless to say I am an engineer. 😊
It should be a no brainer but if you're on a train and miss your stop, or the train doesn't stop for any reason, just get off at the next station and go back on your self. I've done it a few times, it's a pain in the backside but don't do something stupid like pull the emergency alarm if it's not an emergency. If you're on your way to pick your children up from school, I'm sure being a few minutes late isn't going to get you in trouble.
@@SJF15 There's usually an emergency lever or button that opens the doors so passengers can exit the train during emergencies. Normally found above the doors, all she had to do was use that.
Once uppon a time, when I was travelling by a train as a teenager, I wasn’t able to open the train door on my station and the train left before I was able to leave. The next station was hour and a half away, I had 3% battery in my phone and I had no money- I was absolutely scared! What I did was go to a conductor and told her about the situation, and although she didn’t have to she managed to ask the train drivers to stop and contacted another train that was going the opposite way to pick me up and take me home. She saved hours of my time but she didn’t have to, and if she didn’t I would just go with the train to the next station. I was taught that emergency brakes should be used only if someone is cought between the doors on the outside. I would have never thought to hit emergency brakes for anything other then lifesaving situation. My comfort, even as a scared teenager, wasn’t a lifesaving situation.
Andre Tanguy reminds me of Casey Jones, the train engineer who sacrificed his life jamming the brakes on his locomotive when his train was on a collision course with a coal train spilling out a siding.
Just in case you (or anyone else) is interested, typically EMUs have multiple forms of brakes. There are no engine cars as such; motive power is distributed throughout the train, between what’s called motor cars, and trailer cars are just that. The driving car may or may not also be a motor car, the two are not mutually exclusive. In normal service, the same motors that are used to provide propulsion, are used for probably 90% of braking demand. The motors basically turn into generators, much the same way as your car’s alternator works, and they feed generated power back into the grid (or into giant resistors but this is less common). This is called dynamic braking. On a normal application, and up until full service braking, the motors are used to decelerate from speed, down to about 5 or 10km/h, at which point the pneumatic air brakes take over to bring the train to a complete stop. You can’t use dynamic brakes to completely stop the train-there’s a point in which the motors stop being effective for this. So, it’s motors for 90% or so, and pneumatics for the remaining 10%. This is called bended dynamic braking, and it is what is used for anything but emergencies. In emergencies, the dynamic brakes may or may not apply, but with what I’ve seen, it’s usually that they don’t apply. When you shift from full service into emergency, in the trains where I’m from, the dynamic brakes are disabled, and the air is completely and entirely dumped out of the pneumatic system, thus jamming the pneumatic brakes on as hard as they will go. Westinghouse brakes, which all trains use, are very clever. Unlike other applications, trains are more-or-less unique in that it takes air pressure to *release* brakes, not apply them. So, if you have a situation like this, all the driver needs to do, is pull a handle. Same thing for passengers. The emergency stop buttons are tied into the same system. When triggered, all of the stored air pressure in the onboard tanks is immediately vented to atmosphere. It’s extremely loud and you are absolutely gonna know when this system has been tripped. I would imagine that the train’s air compressors are also inhibited as well, so that they cannot switch on in reaction to losing air pressure, and try to pump into a vented system and providing even the remotest risk of allowing air pressure to build. TL;DR train brakes work opposite to how you’d expect them to. Air pressure is required to *release* brakes. When air pressure is lost for whatever reason (blown hose, dump valve opened, whatever), then the brakes apply, and will not disengage until the system is allowed to build sufficient air pressure again. P.S. Whilst all motor cars I’ve ever seen have pneumatic brakes, not all trailer cars do. Some may, some may not. They may also have park brakes, but this is a different thing again. Also, not all pneumatic brakes have shoes that contact the part of the wheel that contacts the rails. Some have separate brake discs. Bombardier TRAXX propulsion systems are known for having these separate brake discs. This actually caused a derailment in my city because the wheels got contaminated whilst arriving at the last station on the line, which subsequently sent the train straight through the buffers and into the toilet block said buffers were protecting. Had anyone been inside (as someone was two minutes earlier), they would’ve been killed. No serious injuries though, either on the train or off. These trains now have sand dispensers. I hope this helps, and isn’t too egotistical of me to share or anything. I love your videos, and I’m a member of one or two of the same communities you are, Chloe, and I really appreciate the work that you do. But I’m just sharing this so that other folks can also follow along. Cheers! And jeez that turned into an essay. Well, I hope it was useful and/or interesting regardless.
If an emergency brake is tripped, (especially by a passenger) - it is absolutely abnormal for a crew to simply disconnect the rest of the train from the lead/driven unit (even if accidentally). PLUS, most if not all "crews" MUST PERFORM an immediate brake check - of all rolling stock - on their train - BEFORE they proceed. That crew didn't GO THROUGH THE CORRECT PROCEDURE of making sure the brake systems were working correctly, before proceeding, and in their hurry to "make up time" totally overlooked the importance of a "slow rolling" BRAKE TEST, before proceeding at track speed. thus their sheer (arrogant) negligence caused the accident It was NOT the actions of a single passenger operating the in-car emergency, but the inactions of the crew WHO ARE MANDATED BY RAILWAY RULES to ensure that they had ALL BRAKES WORKING, before proceeding. The passenger was long gone - thus had NO responsibility at all. As far as she was concerned - the train was stationary "when she disembarked". It was the responsibility of the DRIVER & GAURD to ensure the safety of the train AND THE CORRECT FUNCTIONING OF ALL OF IT'S BRAKES, before they proceeded without doing a full brake check.
"When triggered, all of the stored air pressure in the onboard tanks is immediately vented to atmosphere." No, thats not how the Westinghouse automatic air brake works. Releasing all compressed air from the tanks means you disable the brakes. Train brakes use compressed air to brake, its only the air in the brake line that is released, not the whole system. When the pressure in the brake line is lowered, a valve between the tank and the brake cylinder opens, apply pressure on the brake, if the pressure in the brake line rises, the valve to the tank closes and release the air from the brake cylinder, the brakes release and the tank gets refilled, on the old Westinghouse brake via the brake line, on modern systems via the main air line. What the train driver did was, closing accidentally the main air line and then releasing the air from all tanks to release the brakes, makeing them useless. Road vehicles with air brakes have a spring loaded air tank, if the tank is empty, the spring closes the brakes mechanical, train usually dont have that, so they can moved without a locomotiv.
Yes, it was silly of her to pull the emergency brake, and she should have been fined for improper use, but I think it's very harsh to blame the accident on her, there's no way she could have anticipated it to cause such a disaster, which was ultimately the fault of the driver not resetting the brakes properly
@@grassytramtracksit kind of is her fault as it is literally illegal to pull that in a non-emergency and then blame the drivers to fix up what she started
Disabling a safety feature on the brakes shouldnt have happened, it was in fact the only clue. IF the train wont move ... it wont move. It could be a false alarm ... but could be also a clue that something is seriously wrong. Just leave it alone and call for support. Better late than sorry. Trains are very rigurous at schedules .... but safety is first
This channel deserves more recognition. It’s not made up with computer speech. Also the level of information is above expectations, with the cases being thoroughly combed and documented with facts and timeline. Thank you for your work 👍
Sounds to me like there were a lot of systems that all went wrong at just the wrong times EDIT: Okay so the driver got 6 months of a 4 year sentence or manslaughter? Knowing how much power French prosecutors have, I'm honestly shocked it wasn't more but I do agree with the union that in this case the driver was at least partially scapegoated.
@@lv7603 Yeah no doubt and when the drivers of both trains knew they were in trouble salvaged anything they could do to save their customers from their lives taken away
@@GiordanDiodato Indeed. Missing your stop is NOT considered to be an emergency situation. Especially on a commuter service where the next stop is a few minutes away and there are many regular trains that could have gotten her back to her original destination in a fairly short time. As an afterthought, it was her own action that she misread the new timetable.
Insomnia pays off for once lol. I enjoyed this as much as I do your airplane investigations, excellent job as always. It's always sad when panic hits and mucks things up.
I was on holiday and came in on a train from Munich shortly after this happened. They were still cutting bodies out of the carnage. I'll never forget it.
the passenger who pulled the emergency brake… genuinely shocking. this really demonstrates the good and bad in people; the selfishness of the passenger and the courage and altruism of the parked train driver.
B/S - It is well known - world wide - that most children at some time or another have "operated" an emergency brake - yet in this instance where a fare paying passenger "thought" that their ticket gave them the right "to disembark at that station" - and that they observed that the driver had failed to slow down, was well within their right, to operate that emergency (in car) lever. Nearly every railcar trip that I have been on, someone has "pulled" an emergency lever - it is standard practice - for panicked passengers who believe that their drop off station - has been over run. LACK OF MAINTENANCE for the operation of the reset valves - is NOT the responsibility of passengers, nor is it the responsibility of a fair paying passenger - TO THAT LOCATION, after they leave - to go back and tell the useless train crew - to perform ALL tests on an emergency brake action. It was purely that of a crew in haste (to make up time at excessive speeds) - who overlooked even the basic of "tests" that should have been performed - after all - they never asked the passenger why that was actioned - thus had zero idea as to what had happened.. BUT they never performed a pre-release brake check - nor a working brake check either. In fact - NO STOP/GO & STOP AGAIN "brake check" was ever performed before they left that station, until it was far too late to find they had zero brakes at the disaster area.
How the train came to be stopped by the emergency brake is unimportant. It could just as easily been a genuine emergency. It is what happened following that matters.
I drove trains for NYC subway for 6 and a half years before becoming a supervisor. This entire breakdown of what happened is very well done. Explains exactly what we experience as train drivers, and definitely highlights what you should NOT do in this situation. Thank you for this video.
Sad to see the individuals involved being loaded with all the legal blame for this tragedy, when it seems pretty clear that it was primarily SNCF's systems design, training programmes, and practice of skipping stops to make up lost time that were the key failure points...? I guess the government must've tried to avoid admitting any culpability on their part, for fear of losing consumer confidence in the network 😒 The item that really made me wince was the points being frozen in current position when the emergency alarm was activated? 😣 Basically guaranteeing that if you needed to redirect a runaway or shift a target train, you simply couldn't... Hopefully that was one of the lessons learnt. Major kudos to André the driver of the stationary train, making the terrible choice to sacrifice his own safety to save so many others 🙏
The French having these sorts of failures in design at a time when Algerian terrorism was at a all time high, I shudder to think of the terrorists running about with that info
It's nice to hear some bts stuff that someone like me would have no idea of, like matching the simulations to the exact models of plane/train. It wouldn't have even occurred to me that that was something you had to think about. But you did, and it just goes to show that your meticulous attention to detail goes much further than the average layman can even dream about. No matter how much they appreciate the simulations that really give us visual cues to understand the engineering terminology etc Another great video DB! Glad to hear you're feeling better
Great video. Just for info, the system that saw the points stay set for the route into the occupied platform was actually worse than that, it actually was set for an open platform but the emergency system reverted them to normal automatically. And post disaster the emergency stop was changed into the “passcom” system you see now, leaving it down to the driver where and how to come to a stop
As railway staff (in a different country) we still feel the echoes of this crash. Our training includes specific communications tests including using the cab radios to make an emergency call. We cover - what language we need to use (and what phrases to avoid as they might be confusing) - how to indentify yourself and your train We use the phonetic alphabet and read out numbers individually to avoid any misunderstandings. We also ask for messages to be repeated back to us by the controller or signaller we are calling (and vice versa) so that we can be sure we have reached a clear understanding. In the course of their 'traction' training - drivers and guards are also taught all the ways to stop their train in an emergency and how to let others know their train is in distress. Drivers and guards are tested 3 times in their first year on the job (once to qualify, again after 6 months and a 3rd time after a year qualified). Thereafter all drivers and guards are tested every two years to maintain their competency.
I remember those old metallic trains from my childhood. Went back to france after years, and YES our train system is a source of national pride Great video nice to see yoi diversify
Another great job! I’m enjoying the ‘extra’ uploads with disasters other than airplanes. Don’t get me wrong, your air videos are my favs, but these are really cool too! 👍👍
For the next train disaster, I'd recommend the Hinton Train Collision. While the route itself is unavailable, the locomotives and cars are (CN SD40-2 and GP38-2, plus VIA FP9A (substitute an F9 in here)). I'd recommend Kicking Horse Pass as it's the closest to the actual area.
Thank you Breakdown Disaster! That was a awesome video. Really liked hearing about this train accident. Never knew about this one. Got to watch it again.
I feel a little ashamed of myself. For the first time since I have been watching UA-cam videos - I’ve even put a few up myself, I feel awful that I would like to support your well researched and interesting videos. The problem is that I am 70 and living on a pension. Anyway, I feelI shall see what I can do. Hope you are fully recovered and look forward to further posts.
From somebody who is young, dumb, and broke, dont be so hard on yourself! You deserve to have your pension, you earned it, and sadly those things are quite often not enough for folks. Don't worry, folks like me will gladly take up the reins for you to support the channel.
Paris to Melun route wasn't part the RER D in 1988, it became part of the RER where a tunnel was built between Chatelet-Les-Halles and Gare de Lyon in 1995 thus linking the northern suburban service from Gare du Nord to the southeastern suburban services from Gare de Lyon.
Very devastating that pulling an emergency brake caused this disaster. My goodness. If only the lesson of don't pull the emergency brake over a missed stop was learned the easy way instead of the hard way. Well done, Chloe. I'd be very interested to see a video on the 1989 Southern California Runaway Train incident.
don’t forget the emergency brake could have been used for a valid reason. so the cause wasn’t the emergency brake, but the actions done to the train brakes afterwards
This is such an excellent video and I find myself coming back to it every now and then. It reminds me of the Gothenburg tram crash of 1992, where a traffic controller disengaged the brakes of a tram stuck without power, so that it could be moved - it ended up careening down a massive slope and crashing into a crowded tram stop, killing 13 people. It might be worth a video on this channel!
This video popped up on my feed and was hopeful! i enjoyed it thoroughly and was delighted to check out your other videos to find so many! I love disaster analysis and I'm happy to find more good content!
Air powered brakes normally don't work like that. They open if pressure is supplied and close when there is no pressure. It's a simple fail-safe system. If there is a leak, breaks will close and the vehicle stops. It's the same with trucks. What were they thinking, designing it like that?
They didn't design it like that. The guy publishing the video got confused. What you said is the correct way it works. The drivers didn't just shut off the brakes but isolated the brake pipe circuit, negating any control of the rest of the train's brakes from the cabin.
The major failure...for me... was the driver not checking that he had, indeed restored the brakes (at a walking pace) before blindly roaring off down an inline..... That...is just so baffling. As others have noted, even learner drivers check their ability to brake under control: This guy and his guard just seemed clueless as to what what the correct procedure was after an "Emergency Stop". But top of the list, just has to be: "Do a rolling stop at low speed to ascertain that normal braking has been restored. AND YOU HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE TRAIN:" (And, No...that is not the fault of the woman who initiated the Emergency Stop.)
I'm a French citizen now living in the UK and this disaster took place on a line that was part of my daily commute for years (though I would almost always take the direct service between Melun and Paris with no stops). It took me a while to recognise it from that vantage point but 0:23 to 0:27 is actually a really cool aerial footage of my hometown of Melun and its train station. Melun is by no means a big city, so it's rare to see it featured in anything, and though the circumstances are of course tragic, I really love your channel, so it was kind of cool (albeit weird) for me to see my hometown showed here. Even though this happened a few years before I was born, I often think of this accident whenever I travel from Melun to Gare de Lyon on the train. It's not a disaster that's often mentioned or remembered, not even in France, so I'm impressed that you covered it on your channel and (as usual) in such a thorough and detailed fashion at that. Good job!
Never put a vehicle in motion unless you know that you can stop it. I wasn't yet a teenager when I was taught to test brakes on a tractor before building up any speed. The train driver wasn't concerned with brakes; he was primarily concerned with meeting his time schedule.
First non-aviation disaster breakdown I’ve watched. More diligent and excellent content, thank you. I’m forever worried and angry about members of the public, like the female passenger in this case, who put their own convenience before the greater good. Often that greater good is the routine and efficient service for others. But when that is broken, chain reactions can commence… How tragic.
Interestingly, the unit you used in your simulation is a Siemens Class 350 Desiro, as used on services out of Euston by London Northwestern. Until I retired three years ago I drove these units. The passenger emergency system on these units and all modern units in the UK works in a completely different way now. When the pass-comm is activated, it sets off an alarm in the cab. The driver then has five seconds to kick a button under the driving desk to acknowledge the alarm and de-activate the emergency brake. If the button is not kicked, the brakes come on. The driver then has the ability to talk to the person who has pulled the handle via the internal comms system, thus ascertaining what the emergency is and the best way to deal with it. In order to reset an alarm, either the driver or the guard needs to reset the alarm handle that was activated with a special key. This is something I have had to do many times during my driving career, yet I only ever had two genuine emergencies on trains that required me to take urgent action.
You would think he would have done what you would do in a car after having any issue with your breaks, test them a bit before going max speed! Andre Tanguy was a hero
I think this one stands out because it feels a lot more like an aviation disaster than a railway one. A lot of train crashes can be blamed on a single decisive factor: A signal failure, mechanical issue, driver error or an intrusion on the track. Having a cavalcade of mounting human and mechanical factors feels a lot more like it's describing a plane crash rather than a train one.
that isn't true, almost all failures are a cascade of factors and not one single event. A catalyst, maybe, but almost always are the causes multiple that contribute.
The gare de lyon train disaster was tragic, thank goodness that locomotive engineer warned his passengers. I have a video suggestion, can you do the 1988 sorø train derailment or the 2019 great belt bridge rail accident both in Denmark
Brilliant documentaries, that are informative,educational, how we can travel forewarned...and very humane, without being over criticle of human error, but highlighting mechanicle frailties, many of which ARE avoidable. We are happy you are better too!
Nice Video I have a few suggestions for the next video the Warngau Train Crash 1975, the Rüsselsheim Train Crash 1990, the Brühl Derailment 2000 and the Bad Alblingen collision 2016 they are all interesting
For all those confused about the brake system, train air brakes actually work differently to truck air brakes, in that a truck will not be able to move if all air is released from the auxiliary tanks as it relies on springs to apply braking force (the air is used to counteract the spring and release the brakes). In the case of a train, while it is a "failsafe" system, it does rely on the auxiliary tanks to be pressurised, as that pressure is needed to apply the braking force (a drop in pressure in the control line will operate a valve that sends air from the auxiliary tank to the brake cylinder, applying the brakes. High pressure in the control line will operate the valve to purge the air out of the brake cylinder and release the brakes, while replenishing the auxiliary tank). That means that if the air feed to the auxiliary tanks is closed by closing the control line valve, and the tanks are purged, the brakes will not be applied and will not be able to be applied. The emergency brakes are applied by opening a valve that empties the air out of the control line. Which is the valve that needed to be reset in the case of this accident. There is a pretty good article about how those work: wikimili.com/en/Railway_air_brake All that also explains why a parked truck with empty air tanks will not be rolling down a hill unless you start the engine to build up air pressure. While parked railway cars with empty tanks can be pushed around in shunting stations without needing to connect air hoses. And why those cars also have manually operated brakes, usually a big steering wheel kind of device that allows to apply parking brakes.
I know a lot about this train accident thanks to a documentary. The driver wasn't at fault. He just panicked under pressure. Good job on this video. Perfect as always. Will you do the Paddington rail disaster? I know a lot about it as well thanks to a documentary
If your work includes the safety of others, you need to be able to handle yourself in tense situations. Sure the error wasn’t only his fault, but he is one of the people at fault.
SNCF runs "all trains in France" *except* - from 1:11 to 1:18, that's not a SNCF train, it's a Paris Metro train run by RATP and it's running on the right. Looks like Ligne 6, Sevres-Lecourbe station. The RER is operated partly by SNCF and partly by RATP; RER trains run on the left, like the SNCF.
Ironically the stock footage you have at 0:08 Is of the Washington DC Metro. Possibly the 1K series? Speaking of WMATA, have you considered doing a video on the June 2009 Washington Metro train collision?
Merci beaucoup pour le video! Thank you for this video. I was at that station, just 2 weeks before the disaster. I was also caught up in the famous tube fire in London 5 months later. Ironic as by trade I learnt how to fix diesel locomotives at "Westrail" the former Western Australian Government Railways!
This was very interesting ! Do you plan on doing Gare Montparnasse disaster ? It is well known in itself, but not the detail. There is even a of it representation in Parc Astérix. Thank you for your videos, they are always very interesting
I was doing my commute everyday on the Paris/Melun line for a whole year circa 2011/2012. I saw that memorial everyday, like most commuters. In fact those stations (ticket halls, tunnels, etc) have not changed that much since the 80s, if you look a national archive videos about it. Those things were built to last. even the seats and signage have been there for decades. By that time, they didnt use the "silver trains" as I called them for the Paris-Melun line, and replaced them for more recent models. But they were still in use for shorter distances. They connected stations around the city (villages and small towns) to the Melun station (where you could then take a train to Paris) Anyway in France the SNCF is NOTORIOUS for their bullshit delays and zero accountability for it.
Hello, i to take the Paris/Melun line every day since last year and, it is still somewhat of a mess, tho, more and more train are geting replace or restore and the bigest delay were strike related (im not against, just saying) it is geting better . Also i heard of the incident for a family who i was next to in the way to full train, fun moment .
I'm quite uneasy about the amount of people criticising the lady who pulled the E-brake, it was a self centred thing to do granted but she didn't spend 20 minutes walking the train manually bleeding the brakes afterwards. She deserved a fine for improper use of the E-brake but does not have responsibility for the cavalcade of incompetence that followed leading to disaster.
I'm 100% with you on this. What she did was wrong by pulling the emergency brake, but manslaughter? Jfc talk about railroading someone to escape culpability.
The kind of people who blame her totally are more selfish than her I'm ready to bet. She was a 21 years old mother I think she was already stressed in her life, she made a selfish mistake because in her mind it was like an emergency for her, but as said she is the PIVOTAL POINT, it means that the catastrophy coming after was still not supposed to happen and it mainly happened because of errors of the conductor, poorly designed system of stupid train network security program.
In theory you could say the moment the SNCF took delivery of the first of these EMU's in 1965 was the pivotal point as they had the flaw that meant the brake isolation cock was easy to set to isolate. To not think 'check the brake isolation cock' as a train driver before 'the system has air locked and I must manually purge the brakes on the whole train' to me is both cavalier on the part of the train crew and is also the absolute pivotal moment as once this is done and the train pulled away an accident of some sort is inevitable. There were options up to that point.
@@inglewoodea3149 lots of people are stressed and are a mum, doesn't give them the excuse to pull an emergency brake when no emergency has been established.
I wonder if you will do a video on freight train related crash?, like the murdock illinois train derailment or the 3 cajon pass wrecks in 1989, 1994 and 1996.
I had stumbled upon your channel, as would often scoop for air crash or aircraft incident videos. And now that we see the range of videos, the production quantity and the measured narration of your 🤍💙videos👌🏽.. it only makes us want more. Thank you so much for your elaborate work. And thank you to the Patreon subscribers too. I too hope to chip in, but in my country the restrictions would only mandate a limited direct transfer to recipient's (your) bank account only. I hope to be able to do something sooner though. Thanks again.
Terrific video! Are you also considering making video of ship/maritime disasters? Would be interesting to see:-) You are making some of the best flight/vehicle disaster videos out there 👌
Great video! Here is a nitpick: it is unfortunate that, when mentioning the "simple commuter trains" run by the SNCF, footage of Paris' subway is shown-those are managed by the RATP ("Autonomous Parisian Transportation Administration"), not the SNCF. The RER, however, is interesting as it is managed both partially by the RATP, and the SNCF.
Can we get more train disaster breakdowns on the channel? I would love to see more of these! A suggestion is can you cover Amagasaki derailment sometime please?
From my experience, not being able to release the brakes with air would be a reason to not bleed off the applied brakes. If you can't pump off the brakes, you've got no air going to the cars. No air would also mean no brakes.
That's the mystery for me: Why did the driver not do a low speed test of the brakes after he and his guard had manually released the brakes? i.e. an empty train or carriages needing shunting in a yard.... They went beyond their remit to make the train move...then failed to test if indeed they had any brakes restored at all!
How depressing it must've been to for that mother to have learned that her wanting to be with her children unknowingly led to one of France's deadliest train disasters
@@Camlor9202 I dont think she knew she was doing anything wrong. She shouldnt have had to face charges. We all did wrong things without knowing, this is just on a larger scale.
One of the survivors, Collette Paquelet (I hope I spelled her name right), who spent several weeks in hospital after sustaining hip and pelvis fractures and lots of blood loss in the crash (in turn having her heart stop briefly before being revived) was angry that the buck for the crash fell on the train driver (Saulin), the train guard (Bouvet) and the controller at Gare de Lyon (Tholence). She felt that the national railways of France, the SNCF, should have been held to account instead
This is a brilliant doco. My only question is why on earth the train didn’t have Westinghouse brakes? With this, I thought universal system for buses and trains, the brakes are held on by powerful springs. Compressed air is then required to push the springs outwards and release the brakes. The purpose of this is so in the event of an air leak, or a carriage decoupling, the brakes come on automatically. The same system is used to stop buses moving when their doors are open.
I thought they did have Westinghouse brakes, and that the Westinghouse system didn't depend on springs as such? The Westinghouse brake is somewhat easy to disable, and that's effectively what they ended up doing (Westinghouse basically keeps some air from the brake pipe, and if the pressure in that brake pipe is reduced it uses the stored air to apply the brakes. Disabling the brakes just requires releasing the air from the brake cylinders but not allowing the brake pipe to recharge, that way the brakes are released, but there isn't any air to reapply them again)
@@fetchstixRHD Thanks for your comment. It is quite possible that am wrong about the springs. I don't remember where I got that info from. Your explanation fits better with what happened leading up to the crash
@@eKwFX3TJ: Seems like there are many comments that seem to not understand how the Westinghouse/automatic air brake works, and it was hard for me to find good sources on it on a fresh search, though I had some pre-existing ones in my memory. Funny enough, one of those sources states "A great many engineers (...) display no desire whatever to understand the air-brake, and are perfectly contented with its action so long as it will stop the train." Hmm... As an aside, there was an incident in 2019 which has many similarities to here. Short-ish version: the brake pipe was isolated in a similar situation (this time it was while connecting cables), but that happened immediately after a brake continuity test and with the brake pipe charged, trapping the pressure in the pipe with no way for the driver to release it. A running brake test didn't reveal the issue, and it only became noticeable once the rheostatic braking failed (luckily, in that case, a clear route was able to be set until the train could be stopped safely, and also the driver did not make an emergency call, so as to prevent stopping all other trains and possibly the setting of a clear route!) If anyone's interested and doesn't already know the incident I'm referring to(/is wondering about details I've missed out), it's RAIB Report 05/2020, interesting read imo 🙂
Air brakes operate in the normally on mode and need air pressure to release them, so how could the driver manually release them without realising that they would stay released the next time he braked?
Modern trains have a main brake pipe, which feeds individual air tanks for each set of brakes, the brakes are applied using air pressure from these tanks when main brake pipe air pressure is lost, however, if you were to remove the air from these tanks, then the brakes would release The brakes require air pressure to apply them, not to release them, however, the system is designed so that normally, there will always be air available to apply the brakes
@@pineappleroad While I can't refute your response, it's not logical. If you think about it, why would anyone design brakes which need air pressure to apply them in a system which may need to have trailers left alone for possibly long periods of time? If the standard of trains and truck trailers is using pressure to release the brakes, why would any industry switch to the opposite? It seems silly.
@@kenmore01 someone who works on trains has confirmed that the information i have is correct And there have been various incidents which have happened as a result of the way the brakes are designed One of them is that a train that was being left unattended did not have sufficient hand brakes applied I personally think that the way train brakes are designed is stupid, but unfortunately, it is not specific to one or two countries, trains worldwide use this design
Btw this specific train DID have westinghouse as OP mentioned. The driver shut off the valve which isolate the rest of the train's air pressure fron the front car which controls it, locking the rest of the train's brake ON. But then the driver manually releases all the brakes car by car, so the brakes are now locked OFF.
Tanguy could not go anywhere, so the delay did not matter. Disabling automatic re-routing when someone presses red button was a terrible mistake and is corrected as of now. You kinda shoulda mentioned that.
If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. Consider joining here from £1 per month: www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdown
I had stumbled upon your channel, as would often scoop for air crash or aircraft incident videos.
And now that we see the range of videos, the production quantity and the measured narration of your 🤍💙videos👌🏽.. it only makes us want more.
Thank you so much for your elaborate work.
And thank you to the Patreon subscribers too.
I too hope to chip in, but in my country the restrictions would only mandate a limited direct transfer to recipient's (your) bank account only.
I hope to be able to do something sooner though.
Thanks again.
While most here are deciding, judging, cussing and name-calling Odile Mirrior (the passenger who pulled the emergency brakes).
I, with my tiny little brain, am wondering as to how us South Asians/ Asians get unwarranted ridicule over our customs or cultures.
.
But here, in an allegedly "western" country, it was okay for teenagers to regularly get pregnant.
That too possibly underage teenagers at that.
.
For her kids to be school going (even if pre-school) and her being about 21 years of age.
Her kid or (multiple) kids obviously were born when she was a teenager.
.
For someone who herself was a kid, barely forced into adulthood (with her planned or unplanned pregnancy)...
... the people commenting here seem to be overly judgemental, I think.
The imbecilic morons calling her Karen, selfish and what not.. have themselves possibly erased their own conscience... and thus cannot see all the wrongs that they have done in their own lives.
.
And while I am in no way
validating what Odile Mirrior (the 21 year young kid/ passenger) did.
I can easily step into that person's shoes and reflect on my own life choices... prior to foul mouthing others.
.
That the company (despite being a PSU/ Public Sector Undertaking) could disown liability.. kind of goes to show how broken our legal systems are... when we need them most.
#gut #wrenching
Loved it 4:27 breaking mechanics was funny as it had 2 meanings brakes and breaking 🤣
@@sailaab ⁷⅝o⁹
Paris'Metropolitan is not operated by SNCF.
Tanguy was a hero. He could have left and saved himself, but he chose to stay and save others. That's absolutely amazing.
Good to see that he had a memorial built for him. But he should have got a Legion D'Honour for his act of true heroism.
No greater love.
I'm pretty sure he could have done both. Give two immediately evacuate orders over intercom fast and run like a wind. This could have saved his life well as passengers.
@@cccenturion4480 I saw a documentary on this accident long ago, I was positively sure that Andre Tanguy received the Légion d'Honneur for his actions, but now I cant find any evidence for this anymore
It happens a lot and everywhere, very dangerous profession.
It's very admirable that the person that pressed the emergency stop came forward, even if they do need a lesson in what an emergency is.
She was a young woman trying to pick up her children, who, presumably, were also very young-and the train was unexpectedly bypassing her stop. In her mind, that WAS an emergency, I would imagine.
The actual problem - was this:
The train crew, after resetting the ONE valve, didn't check all valves in that area, nor did they "perform" a required BRAKE CHECK, that most (I won't say all, as some railway employees never remember - and some others simply don't think) - should remember to do - after EVERY emergency application.
If the crew had performed an engine to end of train brake check - that incorrectly operated valve, would have been found & correctly fixed, meaning that t was the crew, in a HURRY that forgot to correctly check all brakes after flipping one valve off (and inadvertently closing another).
The passenger who activated the emergency lever, NEVER interfered with the other control, which the engineer or his guard "operated".
@@QUIX4U We know she is not the real resposible for the accident but... But she is the PIVOTAL POINT and remembering she is, that means “this disaster would not have happened if I did not do that”. Not blaming her... Just saying that it's a really heavy burden already.
Yeh, she shouldn't have pulled the chord. But she couldn't have reasonably forseen the consequences in this case.
I would say she should have been fined the penalty for pulling the chord in a non-emergency situation but that's ad far as any action should have been taken against her.
The driver amd guard on that service should have had the relevant training to know how to reset an emergency brake application and to realise something was wrong when the brakes were still applied after the reset.
Its WAS an emergency in her case since she was still getting used to the new timetable and didn't realize the train wouldn't stop there. You actually we all would've done the same thing if we were in her shoes.
There is no mention here of a crucial fact: the valve that caused all the problem was an obsolete model whose operation was contrary to standards, thus contributing to the problem: when positioned the standard way for open or close, it worked the opposite way.
Thank you for an important bit of information!!!🙏😢🚅
@@mauricedavis2160 You are welcome. I got it from an approximately one-hour long episode of a French series (could its name be Code Rouge? Code Red?) on catastrophes. It was very detailed.
@@wafikiri_ thank you!!!🙏👍
Everything is obsolete after they invented a new one.
@@mauricedavis2160 Although it made no difference, the details about the brake were back to front.
On railway braking, air is used to RELEASE the brake, rather than apply it. As well as not allowing the train to run away when it is shut down on the sidings and the compressors have no electricity supply, the same is true if the power is cut while the train is in motion, otherwise the train would have no way of stopping. The train would also have no brakes in event of a fracture in the pipework or a compressor failure.
What they did on the carriages was lock the air INTO the callipers, something that should only be done on one carriage in event of a fault, followed by careful driving. Or to get the train at crawling speed off the main line if more than one carriage is involved.
These valves are normally only used by engineers during brake maintenance and testing.
What happened on this occasion, showed that the driver did not understand the system.
However, after having problems, any right minded driver would have tested the braking ability of his train, rather than drive off at high speed.
Even a learner car driver after having problems with his brakes, would probably not fly off down the road at 60mph towards a downhill slope.
We should expect better from a professional train driver.
PS. Needless to say I am an engineer. 😊
It should be a no brainer but if you're on a train and miss your stop, or the train doesn't stop for any reason, just get off at the next station and go back on your self. I've done it a few times, it's a pain in the backside but don't do something stupid like pull the emergency alarm if it's not an emergency. If you're on your way to pick your children up from school, I'm sure being a few minutes late isn't going to get you in trouble.
She's probably the same kind of person who cuts people off to get onto a freeway exit instead of just taking the next one
And who opened the doors to let her off?
@@SJF15 There's usually an emergency lever or button that opens the doors so passengers can exit the train during emergencies. Normally found above the doors, all she had to do was use that.
Once uppon a time, when I was travelling by a train as a teenager, I wasn’t able to open the train door on my station and the train left before I was able to leave. The next station was hour and a half away, I had 3% battery in my phone and I had no money- I was absolutely scared! What I did was go to a conductor and told her about the situation, and although she didn’t have to she managed to ask the train drivers to stop and contacted another train that was going the opposite way to pick me up and take me home. She saved hours of my time but she didn’t have to, and if she didn’t I would just go with the train to the next station. I was taught that emergency brakes should be used only if someone is cought between the doors on the outside. I would have never thought to hit emergency brakes for anything other then lifesaving situation. My comfort, even as a scared teenager, wasn’t a lifesaving situation.
Are stops not too far apart then? I don't use trains so I've always assumed there's at least a 10-15 minute wait for the next stop
The driver who chose to give his life for others is a true hero, as brave as a man can be. Great story!
Andre Tanguy reminds me of Casey Jones, the train engineer who sacrificed his life jamming the brakes on his locomotive when his train was on a collision course with a coal train spilling out a siding.
Just in case you (or anyone else) is interested, typically EMUs have multiple forms of brakes. There are no engine cars as such; motive power is distributed throughout the train, between what’s called motor cars, and trailer cars are just that. The driving car may or may not also be a motor car, the two are not mutually exclusive. In normal service, the same motors that are used to provide propulsion, are used for probably 90% of braking demand.
The motors basically turn into generators, much the same way as your car’s alternator works, and they feed generated power back into the grid (or into giant resistors but this is less common). This is called dynamic braking. On a normal application, and up until full service braking, the motors are used to decelerate from speed, down to about 5 or 10km/h, at which point the pneumatic air brakes take over to bring the train to a complete stop. You can’t use dynamic brakes to completely stop the train-there’s a point in which the motors stop being effective for this. So, it’s motors for 90% or so, and pneumatics for the remaining 10%. This is called bended dynamic braking, and it is what is used for anything but emergencies.
In emergencies, the dynamic brakes may or may not apply, but with what I’ve seen, it’s usually that they don’t apply. When you shift from full service into emergency, in the trains where I’m from, the dynamic brakes are disabled, and the air is completely and entirely dumped out of the pneumatic system, thus jamming the pneumatic brakes on as hard as they will go.
Westinghouse brakes, which all trains use, are very clever. Unlike other applications, trains are more-or-less unique in that it takes air pressure to *release* brakes, not apply them. So, if you have a situation like this, all the driver needs to do, is pull a handle. Same thing for passengers. The emergency stop buttons are tied into the same system. When triggered, all of the stored air pressure in the onboard tanks is immediately vented to atmosphere. It’s extremely loud and you are absolutely gonna know when this system has been tripped. I would imagine that the train’s air compressors are also inhibited as well, so that they cannot switch on in reaction to losing air pressure, and try to pump into a vented system and providing even the remotest risk of allowing air pressure to build.
TL;DR train brakes work opposite to how you’d expect them to. Air pressure is required to *release* brakes. When air pressure is lost for whatever reason (blown hose, dump valve opened, whatever), then the brakes apply, and will not disengage until the system is allowed to build sufficient air pressure again.
P.S. Whilst all motor cars I’ve ever seen have pneumatic brakes, not all trailer cars do. Some may, some may not. They may also have park brakes, but this is a different thing again. Also, not all pneumatic brakes have shoes that contact the part of the wheel that contacts the rails. Some have separate brake discs. Bombardier TRAXX propulsion systems are known for having these separate brake discs. This actually caused a derailment in my city because the wheels got contaminated whilst arriving at the last station on the line, which subsequently sent the train straight through the buffers and into the toilet block said buffers were protecting. Had anyone been inside (as someone was two minutes earlier), they would’ve been killed. No serious injuries though, either on the train or off. These trains now have sand dispensers.
I hope this helps, and isn’t too egotistical of me to share or anything. I love your videos, and I’m a member of one or two of the same communities you are, Chloe, and I really appreciate the work that you do. But I’m just sharing this so that other folks can also follow along. Cheers!
And jeez that turned into an essay. Well, I hope it was useful and/or interesting regardless.
Possibly one of the best comments I have ever read. Thank you for taking the time to explain these things to us!
If an emergency brake is tripped, (especially by a passenger) - it is absolutely abnormal for a crew to simply disconnect the rest of the train from the lead/driven unit (even if accidentally).
PLUS, most if not all "crews" MUST PERFORM an immediate brake check - of all rolling stock - on their train - BEFORE they proceed.
That crew didn't GO THROUGH THE CORRECT PROCEDURE of making sure the brake systems were working correctly, before proceeding, and in their hurry to "make up time" totally overlooked the importance of a "slow rolling" BRAKE TEST, before proceeding at track speed. thus their sheer (arrogant) negligence caused the accident
It was NOT the actions of a single passenger operating the in-car emergency, but the inactions of the crew WHO ARE MANDATED BY RAILWAY RULES to ensure that they had ALL BRAKES WORKING, before proceeding.
The passenger was long gone - thus had NO responsibility at all.
As far as she was concerned - the train was stationary "when she disembarked".
It was the responsibility of the DRIVER & GAURD to ensure the safety of the train AND THE CORRECT FUNCTIONING OF ALL OF IT'S BRAKES, before they proceeded without doing a full brake check.
Fantastic explanation for the layman. Many thanks.
Whats a possible scenario for taking the emergency brake as a passenger? I cant image it rn….
"When triggered, all of the stored air pressure in the onboard tanks is immediately vented to atmosphere."
No, thats not how the Westinghouse automatic air brake works. Releasing all compressed air from the tanks means you disable the brakes.
Train brakes use compressed air to brake, its only the air in the brake line that is released, not the whole system.
When the pressure in the brake line is lowered, a valve between the tank and the brake cylinder opens, apply pressure on the brake, if the pressure in the brake line rises, the valve to the tank closes and release the air from the brake cylinder, the brakes release and the tank gets refilled, on the old Westinghouse brake via the brake line, on modern systems via the main air line.
What the train driver did was, closing accidentally the main air line and then releasing the air from all tanks to release the brakes, makeing them useless.
Road vehicles with air brakes have a spring loaded air tank, if the tank is empty, the spring closes the brakes mechanical, train usually dont have that, so they can moved without a locomotiv.
Emergency stop buttons are for emergencies 🤯 missing your stop does not qualify
Yes, it was silly of her to pull the emergency brake, and she should have been fined for improper use, but I think it's very harsh to blame the accident on her, there's no way she could have anticipated it to cause such a disaster, which was ultimately the fault of the driver not resetting the brakes properly
@@grassytramtracksit kind of is her fault as it is literally illegal to pull that in a non-emergency and then blame the drivers to fix up what she started
As a french I want to thank you for covering this disaster. RIP to all that lost their lives this day.
the driver of the outbound train was a great man, he deserves to be remembered
another case of a few minor things adding up and cascading into a genuine nightmare of a situation. great video, as always!
Thanks so much for watching!
Yep the Swiss cheese effect is usually the reason for these accidents. There’s usually more than 1 item contributing to an accident.
Disabling a safety feature on the brakes shouldnt have happened, it was in fact the only clue. IF the train wont move ... it wont move. It could be a false alarm ... but could be also a clue that something is seriously wrong. Just leave it alone and call for support. Better late than sorry. Trains are very rigurous at schedules .... but safety is first
@@ianpatgriffin Mentour's pilot favorite description
This channel deserves more recognition. It’s not made up with computer speech. Also the level of information is above expectations, with the cases being thoroughly combed and documented with facts and timeline. Thank you for your work 👍
Imagine pulling the emergency lever because the train did not stop lol
Happened a few days ago in Italy, a man was sleeping and missed his station, pulled the emergency brake.
There are a lot more egotistical assholes than you'd think...
Woman moment
Here you will get a juicy fine for doing that without an emergency.
@@38911bytefreeHe did get a fine thankfully. Train was canceled due to the extended delay
Sounds to me like there were a lot of systems that all went wrong at just the wrong times
EDIT: Okay so the driver got 6 months of a 4 year sentence or manslaughter? Knowing how much power French prosecutors have, I'm honestly shocked it wasn't more but I do agree with the union that in this case the driver was at least partially scapegoated.
yeah if anything the woman who stopped it suddenly should have gotten more
@@GiordanDiodato totally agree.
@@lv7603 Yeah no doubt and when the drivers of both trains knew they were in trouble salvaged anything they could do to save their customers from their lives taken away
@@GiordanDiodato Indeed. Missing your stop is NOT considered to be an emergency situation. Especially on a commuter service where the next stop is a few minutes away and there are many regular trains that could have gotten her back to her original destination in a fairly short time.
As an afterthought, it was her own action that she misread the new timetable.
@@GiordanDiodato While it was stupid of her to pull the emergency brake she wouldn't have known the consequences of her actions.
Insomnia pays off for once lol. I enjoyed this as much as I do your airplane investigations, excellent job as always. It's always sad when panic hits and mucks things up.
Unfortunately, chaos brings out the best and worse in humans!!!🙏😢
André is an absolute hero. The very definition of one. He should be in the dictionary.
I was on holiday and came in on a train from Munich shortly after this happened. They were still cutting bodies out of the carnage. I'll never forget it.
the passenger who pulled the emergency brake… genuinely shocking. this really demonstrates the good and bad in people; the selfishness of the passenger and the courage and altruism of the parked train driver.
B/S - It is well known - world wide - that most children at some time or another have "operated" an emergency brake - yet in this instance where a fare paying passenger "thought" that their ticket gave them the right "to disembark at that station" - and that they observed that the driver had failed to slow down, was well within their right, to operate that emergency (in car) lever.
Nearly every railcar trip that I have been on, someone has "pulled" an emergency lever - it is standard practice - for panicked passengers who believe that their drop off station - has been over run.
LACK OF MAINTENANCE for the operation of the reset valves - is NOT the responsibility of passengers, nor is it the responsibility of a fair paying passenger - TO THAT LOCATION, after they leave - to go back and tell the useless train crew - to perform ALL tests on an emergency brake action.
It was purely that of a crew in haste (to make up time at excessive speeds) - who overlooked even the basic of "tests" that should have been performed - after all - they never asked the passenger why that was actioned - thus had zero idea as to what had happened..
BUT they never performed a pre-release brake check - nor a working brake check either.
In fact - NO STOP/GO & STOP AGAIN "brake check" was ever performed before they left that station, until it was far too late to find they had zero brakes at the disaster area.
How the train came to be stopped by the emergency brake is unimportant. It could just as easily been a genuine emergency. It is what happened following that matters.
@@geoffreypiltz271 and what if a train was coming on the next line and the passengers evacuating got hit? would that not be relevant either?
@@omiethamsia9009 Now you're just making things up. What if the passenger has stopped the train and saved it from a crash?
@@geoffreypiltz271 and how would that happen
I drove trains for NYC subway for 6 and a half years before becoming a supervisor. This entire breakdown of what happened is very well done. Explains exactly what we experience as train drivers, and definitely highlights what you should NOT do in this situation. Thank you for this video.
Sad to see the individuals involved being loaded with all the legal blame for this tragedy, when it seems pretty clear that it was primarily SNCF's systems design, training programmes, and practice of skipping stops to make up lost time that were the key failure points...? I guess the government must've tried to avoid admitting any culpability on their part, for fear of losing consumer confidence in the network 😒
The item that really made me wince was the points being frozen in current position when the emergency alarm was activated? 😣 Basically guaranteeing that if you needed to redirect a runaway or shift a target train, you simply couldn't... Hopefully that was one of the lessons learnt.
Major kudos to André the driver of the stationary train, making the terrible choice to sacrifice his own safety to save so many others 🙏
The French having these sorts of failures in design at a time when Algerian terrorism was at a all time high, I shudder to think of the terrorists running about with that info
It's nice to hear some bts stuff that someone like me would have no idea of, like matching the simulations to the exact models of plane/train. It wouldn't have even occurred to me that that was something you had to think about. But you did, and it just goes to show that your meticulous attention to detail goes much further than the average layman can even dream about. No matter how much they appreciate the simulations that really give us visual cues to understand the engineering terminology etc
Another great video DB! Glad to hear you're feeling better
Great video. Just for info, the system that saw the points stay set for the route into the occupied platform was actually worse than that, it actually was set for an open platform but the emergency system reverted them to normal automatically. And post disaster the emergency stop was changed into the “passcom” system you see now, leaving it down to the driver where and how to come to a stop
As railway staff (in a different country) we still feel the echoes of this crash.
Our training includes specific communications tests including using the cab radios to make an emergency call. We cover
- what language we need to use (and what phrases to avoid as they might be confusing)
- how to indentify yourself and your train
We use the phonetic alphabet and read out numbers individually to avoid any misunderstandings.
We also ask for messages to be repeated back to us by the controller or signaller we are calling (and vice versa) so that we can be sure we have reached a clear understanding.
In the course of their 'traction' training - drivers and guards are also taught all the ways to stop their train in an emergency and how to let others know their train is in distress.
Drivers and guards are tested 3 times in their first year on the job (once to qualify, again after 6 months and a 3rd time after a year qualified). Thereafter all drivers and guards are tested every two years to maintain their competency.
Chloe's content is becoming more grounded, I see.
yeah, very much in a rush
@Benji P what so funny? That’s her name
@@orannotoren1 Who's the narrator then?
@@N.I.R.A.T.I.A.S. ..chloe is the narrator lmao
@@orannotoren1 Okay I am 100% missing something then because that voice sounds male to me.
I remember those old metallic trains from my childhood.
Went back to france after years, and YES our train system is a source of national pride
Great video nice to see yoi diversify
It WAS a source of national pride. Now... well...
Another great job! I’m enjoying the ‘extra’ uploads with disasters other than airplanes. Don’t get me wrong, your air videos are my favs, but these are really cool too!
👍👍
I much prefer the aviation ones
For the next train disaster, I'd recommend the Hinton Train Collision.
While the route itself is unavailable, the locomotives and cars are (CN SD40-2 and GP38-2, plus VIA FP9A (substitute an F9 in here)).
I'd recommend Kicking Horse Pass as it's the closest to the actual area.
Wow, I have been waiting for this video for a long time, and you delivered spectacularly, as always. Thanks!
Thank you Breakdown Disaster! That was a awesome video. Really liked hearing about this train accident. Never knew about this one. Got to watch it again.
I feel a little ashamed of myself. For the first time since I have been watching UA-cam videos - I’ve even put a few up myself, I feel awful that I would like to support your well researched and interesting videos. The problem is that I am 70 and living on a pension. Anyway, I feelI shall see what I can do. Hope you are fully recovered and look forward to further posts.
From somebody who is young, dumb, and broke, dont be so hard on yourself! You deserve to have your pension, you earned it, and sadly those things are quite often not enough for folks. Don't worry, folks like me will gladly take up the reins for you to support the channel.
I've watched the Seconds from Disaster episode on this and this video is just as informative as the I watched. Well Posted 👏🏻👏🏻
Glad you're feeling better! No worries on the train type. Still a fantastic video!
Thanks!
Paris to Melun route wasn't part the RER D in 1988, it became part of the RER where a tunnel was built between Chatelet-Les-Halles and Gare de Lyon in 1995 thus linking the northern suburban service from Gare du Nord to the southeastern suburban services from Gare de Lyon.
You are right
I love your "train videos". Great video. Keep up the amazing work.
Glad you’re feeling better, Chloe! Your content is truly top notch and I look forward to your uploads every week!
Very devastating that pulling an emergency brake caused this disaster. My goodness. If only the lesson of don't pull the emergency brake over a missed stop was learned the easy way instead of the hard way. Well done, Chloe. I'd be very interested to see a video on the 1989 Southern California Runaway Train incident.
don’t forget the emergency brake could have been used for a valid reason. so the cause wasn’t the emergency brake, but the actions done to the train brakes afterwards
This is such an excellent video and I find myself coming back to it every now and then. It reminds me of the Gothenburg tram crash of 1992, where a traffic controller disengaged the brakes of a tram stuck without power, so that it could be moved - it ended up careening down a massive slope and crashing into a crowded tram stop, killing 13 people. It might be worth a video on this channel!
Excellent summary of this incident, very detailed and thorough.
I love how technical you present the facts. I am grateful for you. Thank you.
This video popped up on my feed and was hopeful! i enjoyed it thoroughly and was delighted to check out your other videos to find so many! I love disaster analysis and I'm happy to find more good content!
Air powered brakes normally don't work like that. They open if pressure is supplied and close when there is no pressure. It's a simple fail-safe system. If there is a leak, breaks will close and the vehicle stops. It's the same with trucks. What were they thinking, designing it like that?
They didn't design it like that. The guy publishing the video got confused. What you said is the correct way it works. The drivers didn't just shut off the brakes but isolated the brake pipe circuit, negating any control of the rest of the train's brakes from the cabin.
@@yp2bcn AND they manually released the isolated brakes
The major failure...for me... was the driver not checking that he had, indeed restored the brakes (at a walking pace) before blindly roaring off down an inline..... That...is just so baffling.
As others have noted, even learner drivers check their ability to brake under control:
This guy and his guard just seemed clueless as to what what the correct procedure was after an "Emergency Stop".
But top of the list, just has to be:
"Do a rolling stop at low speed to ascertain that normal braking has been restored. AND YOU HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE TRAIN:"
(And, No...that is not the fault of the woman who initiated the Emergency Stop.)
@@patagualianmostly7437AND he forgot that the train had dynamic brakes as well dont forget
I love your aircraft videos, but I do appreciate the variety of subjects, like this video. Thank-you for this.
I'm a French citizen now living in the UK and this disaster took place on a line that was part of my daily commute for years (though I would almost always take the direct service between Melun and Paris with no stops). It took me a while to recognise it from that vantage point but 0:23 to 0:27 is actually a really cool aerial footage of my hometown of Melun and its train station. Melun is by no means a big city, so it's rare to see it featured in anything, and though the circumstances are of course tragic, I really love your channel, so it was kind of cool (albeit weird) for me to see my hometown showed here. Even though this happened a few years before I was born, I often think of this accident whenever I travel from Melun to Gare de Lyon on the train. It's not a disaster that's often mentioned or remembered, not even in France, so I'm impressed that you covered it on your channel and (as usual) in such a thorough and detailed fashion at that. Good job!
Never put a vehicle in motion unless you know that you can stop it. I wasn't yet a teenager when I was taught to test brakes on a tractor before building up any speed. The train driver wasn't concerned with brakes; he was primarily concerned with meeting his time schedule.
First non-aviation disaster breakdown I’ve watched. More diligent and excellent content, thank you. I’m forever worried and angry about members of the public, like the female passenger in this case, who put their own convenience before the greater good. Often that greater good is the routine and efficient service for others. But when that is broken, chain reactions can commence… How tragic.
Interestingly, the unit you used in your simulation is a Siemens Class 350 Desiro, as used on services out of Euston by London Northwestern. Until I retired three years ago I drove these units. The passenger emergency system on these units and all modern units in the UK works in a completely different way now. When the pass-comm is activated, it sets off an alarm in the cab. The driver then has five seconds to kick a button under the driving desk to acknowledge the alarm and de-activate the emergency brake. If the button is not kicked, the brakes come on. The driver then has the ability to talk to the person who has pulled the handle via the internal comms system, thus ascertaining what the emergency is and the best way to deal with it. In order to reset an alarm, either the driver or the guard needs to reset the alarm handle that was activated with a special key. This is something I have had to do many times during my driving career, yet I only ever had two genuine emergencies on trains that required me to take urgent action.
I saw a documentary about this one before, but im still happy you covered it
You would think he would have done what you would do in a car after having any issue with your breaks, test them a bit before going max speed! Andre Tanguy was a hero
Brakes
I think this one stands out because it feels a lot more like an aviation disaster than a railway one. A lot of train crashes can be blamed on a single decisive factor: A signal failure, mechanical issue, driver error or an intrusion on the track. Having a cavalcade of mounting human and mechanical factors feels a lot more like it's describing a plane crash rather than a train one.
that isn't true, almost all failures are a cascade of factors and not one single event. A catalyst, maybe, but almost always are the causes multiple that contribute.
2:57 I always do the same in my documents. Like selecting something that comes close or pick something at random. Great Video btw!
Excellent as always, and the music choices compliment it incredibly~
I've only just came across your channel and I really enjoy the content and just subscribed
Loving the train disaster breakdowns. Keep it up.
The gare de lyon train disaster was tragic, thank goodness that locomotive engineer warned his passengers. I have a video suggestion, can you do the 1988 sorø train derailment or the 2019 great belt bridge rail accident both in Denmark
Brilliant documentaries, that are informative,educational, how we can travel forewarned...and very humane, without being over criticle of human error, but highlighting mechanicle frailties, many of which ARE avoidable. We are happy you are
better too!
Brilliant video as always disaster breakdown. It feels strange to see a 350 that runs near me supposedly running to Paris though 🤣
LMAO the patreons:
I Found Your Cheetos and WhereAreMyCheetos 🤣
Im watching this on my holidays and im so hammered im seeing double to an extent.
Nice Video
I have a few suggestions for the next video the Warngau Train Crash 1975, the Rüsselsheim Train Crash 1990, the Brühl Derailment 2000 and the Bad Alblingen
collision 2016 they are all interesting
I like that you basically do TLDR videos of Well there's your Problem.
For all those confused about the brake system, train air brakes actually work differently to truck air brakes, in that a truck will not be able to move if all air is released from the auxiliary tanks as it relies on springs to apply braking force (the air is used to counteract the spring and release the brakes).
In the case of a train, while it is a "failsafe" system, it does rely on the auxiliary tanks to be pressurised, as that pressure is needed to apply the braking force (a drop in pressure in the control line will operate a valve that sends air from the auxiliary tank to the brake cylinder, applying the brakes. High pressure in the control line will operate the valve to purge the air out of the brake cylinder and release the brakes, while replenishing the auxiliary tank). That means that if the air feed to the auxiliary tanks is closed by closing the control line valve, and the tanks are purged, the brakes will not be applied and will not be able to be applied.
The emergency brakes are applied by opening a valve that empties the air out of the control line. Which is the valve that needed to be reset in the case of this accident.
There is a pretty good article about how those work:
wikimili.com/en/Railway_air_brake
All that also explains why a parked truck with empty air tanks will not be rolling down a hill unless you start the engine to build up air pressure. While parked railway cars with empty tanks can be pushed around in shunting stations without needing to connect air hoses. And why those cars also have manually operated brakes, usually a big steering wheel kind of device that allows to apply parking brakes.
Just wanted to say im a huuuge fan of your work 💜 and i love your voice 💜
I know a lot about this train accident thanks to a documentary. The driver wasn't at fault. He just panicked under pressure. Good job on this video. Perfect as always. Will you do the Paddington rail disaster? I know a lot about it as well thanks to a documentary
I mean he didn't call for maintenance that's not panicking that's an error bro.
@@Matt.m6 I see that because the accident was caused by driver error. See the seconds from disaster documentary on this accident
If your work includes the safety of others, you need to be able to handle yourself in tense situations. Sure the error wasn’t only his fault, but he is one of the people at fault.
Remember, it all started when a woman stupidly pulled the emergency brake when she missed her stop.
The French seem to have a habit of doing that, panicking under pressure. It takes down planes and now trains too I see.
I appreciate that you noted that you are using a stand-in because the model that was involved in the incident is not in TS.
I think the 1987 Chase, Maryland collision would be an interesting video
Speedy recovery, Chloe!
they are better I think
SNCF runs "all trains in France" *except* - from 1:11 to 1:18, that's not a SNCF train, it's a Paris Metro train run by RATP and it's running on the right. Looks like Ligne 6, Sevres-Lecourbe station.
The RER is operated partly by SNCF and partly by RATP; RER trains run on the left, like the SNCF.
Ironically the stock footage you have at 0:08 Is of the Washington DC Metro. Possibly the 1K series?
Speaking of WMATA, have you considered doing a video on the June 2009 Washington Metro train collision?
Merci beaucoup pour le video! Thank you for this video. I was at that station, just 2 weeks before the disaster.
I was also caught up in the famous tube fire in London 5 months later. Ironic as by trade I learnt how to fix diesel locomotives at "Westrail" the former Western Australian Government Railways!
This was very interesting !
Do you plan on doing Gare Montparnasse disaster ? It is well known in itself, but not the detail.
There is even a of it representation in Parc Astérix.
Thank you for your videos, they are always very interesting
I was doing my commute everyday on the Paris/Melun line for a whole year circa 2011/2012. I saw that memorial everyday, like most commuters. In fact those stations (ticket halls, tunnels, etc) have not changed that much since the 80s, if you look a national archive videos about it. Those things were built to last. even the seats and signage have been there for decades.
By that time, they didnt use the "silver trains" as I called them for the Paris-Melun line, and replaced them for more recent models. But they were still in use for shorter distances. They connected stations around the city (villages and small towns) to the Melun station (where you could then take a train to Paris)
Anyway in France the SNCF is NOTORIOUS for their bullshit delays and zero accountability for it.
Hello, i to take the Paris/Melun line every day since last year and, it is still somewhat of a mess, tho, more and more train are geting replace or restore and the bigest delay were strike related (im not against, just saying) it is geting better . Also i heard of the incident for a family who i was next to in the way to full train, fun moment .
Great train video keep up the amazing work my favorite UA-cam channel 👍🏽
Thank you very much!
I'm quite uneasy about the amount of people criticising the lady who pulled the E-brake, it was a self centred thing to do granted but she didn't spend 20 minutes walking the train manually bleeding the brakes afterwards. She deserved a fine for improper use of the E-brake but does not have responsibility for the cavalcade of incompetence that followed leading to disaster.
I'm 100% with you on this. What she did was wrong by pulling the emergency brake, but manslaughter? Jfc talk about railroading someone to escape culpability.
The kind of people who blame her totally are more selfish than her I'm ready to bet. She was a 21 years old mother I think she was already stressed in her life, she made a selfish mistake because in her mind it was like an emergency for her, but as said she is the PIVOTAL POINT, it means that the catastrophy coming after was still not supposed to happen and it mainly happened because of errors of the conductor, poorly designed system of stupid train network security program.
In theory you could say the moment the SNCF took delivery of the first of these EMU's in 1965 was the pivotal point as they had the flaw that meant the brake isolation cock was easy to set to isolate. To not think 'check the brake isolation cock' as a train driver before 'the system has air locked and I must manually purge the brakes on the whole train' to me is both cavalier on the part of the train crew and is also the absolute pivotal moment as once this is done and the train pulled away an accident of some sort is inevitable. There were options up to that point.
@@inglewoodea3149 lots of people are stressed and are a mum, doesn't give them the excuse to pull an emergency brake when no emergency has been established.
@@takers786 a justification doesn't mean an excuse. Are you gonna be an idiot and tell me she's responsible for the deaths?
I wonder if you will do a video on freight train related crash?, like the murdock illinois train derailment or the 3 cajon pass wrecks in 1989, 1994 and 1996.
Great disaster breakdown. I love your stuff, and Geordies in general. 👍
Tanguy was like the Casey Jones of France he had the opportunity to saves his own life but a real engineer always puts his passengers first
I had stumbled upon your channel, as would often scoop for air crash or aircraft incident videos.
And now that we see the range of videos, the production quantity and the measured narration of your 🤍💙videos👌🏽.. it only makes us want more.
Thank you so much for your elaborate work.
And thank you to the Patreon subscribers too.
I too hope to chip in, but in my country the restrictions would only mandate a limited direct transfer to recipient's (your) bank account only.
I hope to be able to do something sooner though.
Thanks again.
Terrific video! Are you also considering making video of ship/maritime disasters? Would be interesting to see:-) You are making some of the best flight/vehicle disaster videos out there 👌
Have you ever thought about making the Big Bayou Wreck?
What a gross lack of training. The carelessness is disgusting.
Great video! Glad you are feeling better!
Ok tbh when you posted having trouble with TS i thought you did eschede but this really great too
Great video!
Here is a nitpick: it is unfortunate that, when mentioning the "simple commuter trains" run by the SNCF, footage of Paris' subway is shown-those are managed by the RATP ("Autonomous Parisian Transportation Administration"), not the SNCF. The RER, however, is interesting as it is managed both partially by the RATP, and the SNCF.
your vids are fun to watch and the fact we're both from same city makes them better
Yes. What could be more fun than watching a video about a crash where 56 people died?
@@LoFiRecoverySoundscapes I did not mean it in that sense I meant in the way of they are somewhat entertaining outside of that really happened
Can we get more train disaster breakdowns on the channel? I would love to see more of these!
A suggestion is can you cover Amagasaki derailment sometime please?
Ouch who would have thought that the emergency would have such an effect.
Thanks for the video. Keep up the good work!
From my experience, not being able to release the brakes with air would be a reason to not bleed off the applied brakes. If you can't pump off the brakes, you've got no air going to the cars. No air would also mean no brakes.
That's the mystery for me:
Why did the driver not do a low speed test of the brakes after he and his guard had manually released the brakes?
i.e. an empty train or carriages needing shunting in a yard....
They went beyond their remit to make the train move...then failed to test if indeed they had any brakes restored at all!
Okay that was weird hearing that the train was in France but seeing stock footage of the DC metro. :D
Edit: OMG, this was insane....
I'm French and didn't even know about that! Very interesting indeed! Your accent is cute on the French stations 🙂
Please do the Mont Blanc tunnel fire. Keep up the great work
Can recomend a similar channel to this that recently covered the Mont Blanc disaster, Fascinating horror.
How depressing it must've been to for that mother to have learned that her wanting to be with her children unknowingly led to one of France's deadliest train disasters
Activating the emergency brakes under those circumstances is crazy. Missing your stop is not an emergency.
@@Camlor9202
I dont think she knew she was doing anything wrong.
She shouldnt have had to face charges.
We all did wrong things without knowing, this is just on a larger scale.
@@Camlor9202 absolutely! You wouldn’t call an ambulance for a stubbed toe and you shouldn’t use the emergency brakes on a train.
Despite all the errors the driver and guard make, IMO she is a selfish karen.
They didn't say whether she went to prison but I hope she did.
One of the survivors, Collette Paquelet (I hope I spelled her name right), who spent several weeks in hospital after sustaining hip and pelvis fractures and lots of blood loss in the crash (in turn having her heart stop briefly before being revived) was angry that the buck for the crash fell on the train driver (Saulin), the train guard (Bouvet) and the controller at Gare de Lyon (Tholence). She felt that the national railways of France, the SNCF, should have been held to account instead
This is a brilliant doco. My only question is why on earth the train didn’t have Westinghouse brakes? With this, I thought universal system for buses and trains, the brakes are held on by powerful springs. Compressed air is then required to push the springs outwards and release the brakes. The purpose of this is so in the event of an air leak, or a carriage decoupling, the brakes come on automatically. The same system is used to stop buses moving when their doors are open.
I thought they did have Westinghouse brakes, and that the Westinghouse system didn't depend on springs as such? The Westinghouse brake is somewhat easy to disable, and that's effectively what they ended up doing (Westinghouse basically keeps some air from the brake pipe, and if the pressure in that brake pipe is reduced it uses the stored air to apply the brakes. Disabling the brakes just requires releasing the air from the brake cylinders but not allowing the brake pipe to recharge, that way the brakes are released, but there isn't any air to reapply them again)
@@fetchstixRHD Thanks for your comment. It is quite possible that am wrong about the springs. I don't remember where I got that info from. Your explanation fits better with what happened leading up to the crash
@@eKwFX3TJ: Seems like there are many comments that seem to not understand how the Westinghouse/automatic air brake works, and it was hard for me to find good sources on it on a fresh search, though I had some pre-existing ones in my memory.
Funny enough, one of those sources states "A great many engineers (...) display no desire whatever to understand the air-brake, and are perfectly contented with its action so long as it will stop the train." Hmm...
As an aside, there was an incident in 2019 which has many similarities to here. Short-ish version: the brake pipe was isolated in a similar situation (this time it was while connecting cables), but that happened immediately after a brake continuity test and with the brake pipe charged, trapping the pressure in the pipe with no way for the driver to release it. A running brake test didn't reveal the issue, and it only became noticeable once the rheostatic braking failed (luckily, in that case, a clear route was able to be set until the train could be stopped safely, and also the driver did not make an emergency call, so as to prevent stopping all other trains and possibly the setting of a clear route!)
If anyone's interested and doesn't already know the incident I'm referring to(/is wondering about details I've missed out), it's RAIB Report 05/2020, interesting read imo 🙂
I can hear the Parisians curse at the use of British Train Sim assests.
Air brakes operate in the normally on mode and need air pressure to release them, so how could the driver manually release them without realising that they would stay released the next time he braked?
Modern trains have a main brake pipe, which feeds individual air tanks for each set of brakes, the brakes are applied using air pressure from these tanks when main brake pipe air pressure is lost, however, if you were to remove the air from these tanks, then the brakes would release
The brakes require air pressure to apply them, not to release them, however, the system is designed so that normally, there will always be air available to apply the brakes
@@pineappleroad While I can't refute your response, it's not logical. If you think about it, why would anyone design brakes which need air pressure to apply them in a system which may need to have trailers left alone for possibly long periods of time? If the standard of trains and truck trailers is using pressure to release the brakes, why would any industry switch to the opposite? It seems silly.
@@kenmore01 someone who works on trains has confirmed that the information i have is correct
And there have been various incidents which have happened as a result of the way the brakes are designed
One of them is that a train that was being left unattended did not have sufficient hand brakes applied
I personally think that the way train brakes are designed is stupid, but unfortunately, it is not specific to one or two countries, trains worldwide use this design
Btw this specific train DID have westinghouse as OP mentioned. The driver shut off the valve which isolate the rest of the train's air pressure fron the front car which controls it, locking the rest of the train's brake ON. But then the driver manually releases all the brakes car by car, so the brakes are now locked OFF.
Glad you are feeling better 😊
Wow; never heard of this. Terribly sad and so needless.
Tanguy could not go anywhere, so the delay did not matter. Disabling automatic re-routing when someone presses red button was a terrible mistake and is corrected as of now. You kinda shoulda mentioned that.