FUN FACT!!! Charybdis is essentially just a large animal born from a god, she isn't there to just kill anyone in particular. Her job is to just basically drink the water 3 times a day. Once she has sucked in enough prey she will spit out the excess water and since she didnt have anything against Odysseus there was no point in attacking him. Shes not aggressive, just there to get her daily meal and odysseus happened to be there at that time haha
Well, that and she helped Poseidon sink an island that Zeus was fond of and as punishment, got locked alongside Scylla to act as a guardian for that strait of water. Yeah, Ody had no choice BUT to face Charybdis otherwise he’d be next to Scylla again and that’d be a guaranteed death sentence for him.
@@CaptainFirespitterin some versions she was actually Poseidon’s daughter who wanted to please her father and sunk the land and ofc Zeus was like “You’re now the monster rawr rawr rawr”
In the Odyssey and the part that I know Charybdis and Scylla are in the same lair but just on opposite ends and there are many versions of this part and in the version that I know Odysseus didn’t sacrifice his men frankly he is sailing to Charybdis and is very careful in avoiding Charybdis but Scylla somehow snuck on the ship and ate the six men so Odysseus never intended to sacrifice his men
Penelope was ruling the kingdom while Odysseus was gone. Telemachus in the book went searching for his father and got the stories from those who he contacted before he disappeared and thought lost at sea while he was on Calypso's island.
In this case the lyrics, "stuck in my bedroom, living in this world you left behind" as well as "I've never felt strong before" implies to me that he's been home the whole time. I think the stories are probably the stories from before Odysseus left for war. I get that that's a change from the book but that's what it sounds like to me.
@@calebeaton8777in the wisdom saga it doesn't sound like he's ever left the island. But seeing as we're doing time jumps within these last few sagas (like how Ody managed to get from Ogygia to being at the coast of Ithaca in one song), I can see how it could just be passingly mentioned that Telemachus went off the island for a little bit as a reference to it in the next saga.
@@calebeaton8777I think he went off the island after meeting Athena, and the stories mentioned in Legendary are probably from before the war and heard from people who returned and visited Ithaca maybe? also SPOILERS(if you haven't watched future snippets) in "Hold them down" Antinous mentions Telemachus coming back on his birthday so there's that
@@Autumn-xs1bt Hey there! Actually, that isn't entirely accurate. SPOILER WARNING: That's actually a meme version of the song. The original has nothing to do with a birthday, that cover was just a joke. Telemachus is coming back from a "diplomatic mission." Antinous is actually planning to kill Telemachus upon his return in order to thwart any potential effort Telemachus may make to stop them as he's getting bolder. And that version of the story may not even be current anymore considering the changes Jorge made in "We'll Be Fine." He explained this plot change in one of his most recent pattern-exclusive, monthly choice videos.
😭 oh my God, I just realized that in dangerous when he’s singing the “with only one goal in mind” He doesn’t sing the next part because the crew was the one to sing that in the original
Ive seen this fan theory floating around connecting Odysesus' red eyes to ARES. He was the one who asked if athena was alive and athena promised bloodshed if ARES agreed to let him go. Being siblings ares wanted to know waht athena saw in odyseus
That only happens when Ares uses "Dark Quick Thought" on people to induce anger, if the motif isn't in 600 Strike, then Ares didn't help a single bit, i've heard the song a darn 30ish times by now (lol) and i still didn't find the DQT motif, why do i know the motif exists? It was in God Games
I've seen a different theory that the red eyes represent the monster. Because the prophet said he saw Ody draw his final breath and that he would no longer be himself, they reasoned that Ody "died" at the end of Get in the Water. And the one who lived to beat Poseidon was the monster, signified by red eyes.
The implication of "600 Strike" is that this is a combination of Ody, the Monster, AND the 600 men he lost boosting him. That this isn't just Ody's revenge, it's the revenge of the crew.
@@madisonbrown5646 Not necessarily. The Ares thing is purely speculation as of the moment 1. We HAVE seen Ody with red eyes before in, iirc, Remember Them and Different Beast. But it wasn't mentioned anywhere that Ares helped him in those times. 2. We didn't hear Ares's motif or even his instrument (the erhu, if I'm not mistaken) playing during 600 Strike. If he were there to help, we would've heard it. Take Little Wolf for example. When Athena started helping Telemachus, we could hear her motif being played with her instrument (the piano) "But Ares wanted bloodshed" and Athena wanted Telemachus beat Antinous. (Ok ngl, this last statement is such a poor choice of defense but I kinda just wanted to try and say smth badass XDD) Edit: I'm not saying "Ares didn't help." Just that we aren't 100% sure he did. I'm only stating what I believe. Please don't start any arguments if you don't have anything proper to say
I have my own theory that that section of Hermes' song is about Antinuous planning to kill Telemachus on the beach, in "Hold Them Down". I mean those lines, "When strangers lurk around the isle, when danger greets you with a smile." Just a thought. 💃
There are accounts in Greek myth of mortals rocking gods' shit, usually with aid from another god or their family history. Odysseus is the great grandson(?) of Hermes, and he is related to Zeus by that. So he isn't completely mortal. Trickery is also a common tactic. Thanks to the red eyes and Jorge's explanation of how Athena and Ares have similar powers, a part of me wants to think Ares gave Odysseus that boost since Athena is out of commission. But yeah, greek gods can't be killed but they can certainly feel pain. Poseidon made this monster.
@@devinwhite5064you might be thinking of Diomedes, who absolutely rocked the shit out of Ares and Aphrodite during the Trojan war with Athena’s aid lmao
4:38 If I remember right, Penelope ruled in the 20 years Odysseus was gone because she was the daughter of the Spartan King Icarus. She devised cunning plans to stall the suitors, but as the song said, she was running out of time holding them off for 20 years
With Calypso, in Jorge's version at least, she genuinely loved Odysseus. She was left on that island as a young girl and had no one to care for her in any capacity, whether as a parent, friend, or lover. The thing with Calypso's island is that it is magic: it is hidden from everyone, and no one can come or go without divine intervention. So, you add all that together, you have a touch-starved deity who gets a rather handsome man dropped on her doorstep, and she thinks her loneliness is at an end, she has someone to love and who will love her in return. And since no one was around to teach her about proper relationships, she bombarded an already taken man with persistent affection and romantic overtures that said man did not want. In Jorge's version, Odysseus came to care for her as a friend, because I think he could understand her loneliness a bit. And the fact that she tried so, so hard to help him recover from all of his countless losses, and kept him from calling it quits on living who knows how many times. But Calypso, not knowing the differences between the types of love because she never experienced them and was not taught by anyone, took his lack of romantic love as an outright rejection of her as a person. And now, with Odysseus making his way back to where he belongs, she's left alone again. Jorge's version of Calypso is one where people can sympathize with her, but who also know that her behaviour was not okay by any means. But it gives an explanation as to why she thought it WAS okay.
From what I remember, she is a Titan. She was banished to this island by the gods. She is not like Circe, in that she doesn't have the ability to put spells on people.
When Odysseus is underwater at the start of 600 Strike, you hear Aeolus’s motif, which does imply him opening the windbag. Also, based off of his glowing red eyes it is theorized that he does have some outside help from Athena, or maybe even Ares. The red eyes implies Ares, which also makes sense since Ares was concerned about Athena when he said “Is she dead?” At the end of God Games. Or maybe it’s just a stylistic choice to show the monster side of Odysseus, since his eyes have been red before in the official visuals, specifically in Remember Them and Different Beast (If I remember correctly).
I think it's a stylistic choice because Ares does have a motif for his "dark quick thought" as Jorge put it. The motif is absent in six hundred strike and there is a motif any time a quick thought is used in the series.
@@arghhhhy5874 ok, I was going to go back and listen for any other matching motifs but forgot 😅 I would’ve expected to hear piano or snare drums (or whatever it was that Ares used, and of course Athena’s) for them to be involved and I don’t believe they are.
@@Synthesyn342 I believe when Ares interrupts Athena's Quick Thought in God Games, A violin is playing, which is probably what we would be looking for in this song if he had any involvement
Haphestus’s was cast out by his mother Hera as a baby and his wife Aphrodite cheats on him relentlessly with his brother Ares so loyalty is a sore spot for hephatus and him understanding that Odysseus was betrayed first helps convince him
There's also another account in The Odyssey, because homer specifically says that Zeus threw Hephaestus off of Mount Olympus when he tried to protect his mom during one of their arguments, which at least in this version would give him a better reason to fight be on the side opposite of Zeus, not to mention the fact that it makes Zeus's outburst make a bit more sense, because obviously if he's willing to abuse one of his kids he'd even be willing to abuse his favorite child (in fact I think he actually does something like this to her specifically in The Iliad?)
Calypso, to my knowledge, doesn't actually have powers of persuasion. "7 years she kept you out of your control" is a reference to the fact that no one can leave the island. He was trapped because he genuinely was unable to leave. But neither can she.
The correct answer is technically “with the fishes” because no one has explained why Poseidon wont just spin the block again and kill everyone. Odysseus got insanely lucky there and if Poseidon is genuinely blood lusted he could as he said “raise the tide so high all of Ithaca will die”
I love how feral Ody became. So enraged and livid, he gouged Poseidons left eye. In the last few frames you can see his eye socket bloody and his eye no longer glowing. That’s one way to humble a god.
Ok but like how do I put this. What is stopping Poseidon from wanting the run back? Like genuinely whats stopping him? Its not gonna be fear because Odysseus got insanely lucky and without divine help is not winning the rematch, its not divine intervention since as far as Im aware no one has tried to stop Poseidon from killing Odysseus or tell him off for it so really Im just stuck wondering how Odysseus avoid the utter hell Poseidon is able to rain down. Hell Poseidon wouldn't even need to be in the area he could just cause a massive earthquake or follow through on his threat to “raise the tides so high all of Ithaca will die”.
@joshuafrazier3904 So this is actually something fun! Gods in mythology can infact get their SHIT ROCKED, for example, Diomedes beating ares And aphrodite like a rug. And when gods are wounded, they actually typically heal SLOWER than mortals according to myths, Godly wounds requires godly healing, and while there Are divine "healers" like say, apollo or asclepius.....Zeus and Poseidon have a habit of pissing them off, meaning no godly medical treatment and therefore slower "recovery" not to mention by stories end? Odysseus has most of the other Olympians rooting for him, so poseidon can't really touch him.
Calypso is... complicated. "I'm not sorry for loving you" IS mostly genuine. Calypso is cursed to her island. No one can leave, and no one can find it. She's just as much a prisoner as anyone else. Odysseus was losing it after 7 years; Calypso's been stuck there for HUNDREDS. Not only that, she's cursed to fall in love with whoever washes up on her island. BUT, that isn't an excuse for her to abuse and manipulate anyone who gets stuck there. The things she forced Odysseus to do are unacceptable, no matter her reasons. But her reasons DO make it easier to see why she did the things she did.
Small correction, her being cursed to fall in love with whoever washes up on her island is a Percy Jackson only thing! It's not a thing in the original myth. I completely agree with everything else in your comment though! :) It was worded nicely
Yoooo, this stream was honestly insane. It was the first time I could catch one and was so worth it. Six Hundred Strike especially is cold af and cool af. Oh, also, fun fact in case you didn't know: the guy who did the fight scene in Little Wolf iirc is making an Epic: The Musical game or something like that. Another "fun" fact: Poseidon is missing an eye when you see him after he says the "Alright!" It's pretty hard to catch cuz of how quick the part goes by, but lad got pretty banged up. Figured I'd point that out for any who missed it.
@@baronnexus8524 i did not expect to get Heroes of Olympus spoilers under a EPIC reaction... Well time to keep reading the books to see what the hell is going on there-
Odysessus son is 20 years old. Odyesssus mother held control while he was gone. She held respect and helped penolope but when she died penolope took control...oh by the way when posiden killed 500 of his men that made his mother believe that odyessus died so she died then
I love that the animatic designs for the characters are less so based on media and depictions of them, but instead they are based on the people actually voicing the characters. - it took me until god games to figure this out.
This is actually extremely common in musical theatre fandoms! If you take a look at Hamilton animatics, for example, all the characters are drawn as their on-stage actors. So it was natural for everyone to just draw Epic characters looking like their voice actors, since they’re the only ones we have lol ^-^
In the music, you start hearing Aeolus's melody which is supposed to hint at him opening the wind bag. But yes, the animatics are pretty essential to grasp whats going on. Like i was NOT thinking of a jetpack when i first listened to it.
Yeah tbh I had no clue what was going on. I figured he used the windbag to get Poseidon to Charybdis to fight him. I think its the weakest song in the whole musical for the simple fact that it requires visuals whereas the other songs dont.
Honestly I don’t know how to explain this but your voice is so dang calming like, a bob ross painting video playing late at night vibes, not in a weird way but I could probably fall asleep watching your videos bc of how calming you sound
The thing about Calypso here is that... I don't think she's trying to convince him to stay, I don't think she's apologising. I think she knows Odysseus will leave, and that she will be alone - again - for eternity. And so this is basically her trying to get closure in preperation. It's a selfish song, but that makes sense and I can't blame her. Odysseus gets to go back home and she'll still be on that island, trapped, forever, and nobody gives a shit about her. She was cast away and abandoned and she's now fucked up the only real relationship she could've had, and that's tragic. It doesn't absolve her of the harm she caused Odysseus but you can be both an abuser and a victim and I cannot help but be sympathetic to her, here. There is no version of this story where Odysseus stays with her, regardless of how she treated him.
In the original Odyssey, it’s intriguing that Calypso argues with Hermes when he conveys Zeus's order to release Odysseus. She points out the double standard among the gods, saying that "the gods detest it when goddesses take mortal lovers, yet the gods themselves are free to take as many mortal lovers as they please."
45:57 Aeolus the wind gods theme was playing in background showing that he got the power from the wind bag also in epic jay said that Poseidon is a long range fighter so Odysseus just had to get close and repeated attack him hence six hundred strike
OMG SO EXCITED! I love your reactions, thank you for circling back so I can reget your insight for Wisdom Saga (I'm sorry the fandom kinda clapped you in the comments for not having the context that they did, as if what they know is universal knowledge)
Honestly, a lot of the comments made me so sad for him 😭 But he seems to have taken it like a champ and very humbly apologized for misunderstanding (even though he absolutely didn't need to). It's definitely fun to see the clarity between his wisdom saga reactions
Calypso was one of the Titans, kinda like Atlas, and was imprisoned on her island. She was the Goddess of Mysterious and secrets if I remember right. She made Odysseus immortal and was trying to get him to break out of his grief, in some variations did some very non-concentual things to him. But there is common story point of him often just spending hours, if not days, just sitting and starring out to sea and weeping. Wanting nothing more than freedom, not only from the island but from his own demons. As a personal note, I imagine Calypso was stopping Ody from jumping not to save his life but to save him from pain. He would have survived a tortuous fall and impact because of the immortality she gifted him with and been pushed back, body broken and alive, to the island by the imprisonment of the sea.
Also, it is known that she was trapped on the island her entire life as punishment for her dad. Hence she was genuinely in love with ody because he was the only man she ever saw. This also means that she is giving up any chance for love to let ody go
I interpret 600 strike as being a command to his men that were drowned, not an ultimate attack like it was portrayed in the amv. He opens the windbag to trap Poseidon and then commands the souls of the dead to aid him. If I remember right this confrontation doesn't happen in the actual Odyssey, so creative liberties and whatnot. On the other had, heck yeah windbag-jetpack😅
46:17 if you listen to keep your friends close, the wind god has a sound that lets you know their there and when the bag gets opened, you can hear it then too. that’s how i knew, but if you don’t pay attention it’s pretty easy to miss (idk how to explain sorry 😭)
Telemachus could not ascend to the throne because, in ancient Greece, a new king needed approval from a council of powerful leaders. Odysseus had vanished when Telemachus was only around ten-far too young to rule-and with Penelope still of an age to remarry and bear children, the council saw an opportunity to secure the throne for their own families. They sent their sons and grandsons to court Penelope, hoping she would choose one of them. Meanwhile, these suitors consumed Telemachus' inheritance, as the royal household was obliged to provide them with food and shelter. The council argued that Telemachus was not yet a man by their culture's standards, as he lacked combat training and experience in warfare, having remained at home to protect his mother. As a result, Ithaca remained in a political limbo, with no true leader.
As a person who was SA'd and manipulated I hate Clypso's song. She wasn't sorry and it takes her till he is being taken away to say this. She's sorry he gets to leave. She was a godess with all the power keeping him there 7 years against his will. If she truly loved him She would have let him go when he wanted to jump. People who love you really wouldn't do that to another. She was waiting for anyone which is sad but not an excuse. It makes me sick the amount of people saying to take her with Ody, her victim. Even if she left with him she would recent ody and Penelopes love. She's a goddess so it wouldn't turn out well. It sucks she's trapped on the island alone but she could have just been odys friend instead of pushing herself on him.
She more fell into obsession, then love. Calypso is pretty delusional, as her own lyrics go. She spent seven years ignoring the word “no”, “I have a wife”, and Odysseus nearly jumping off of a cliff because of it all. “Why in the world won’t you love me to?!” Girl, his first statement was how he has a wife.
Amazing reaction! My fave is the final moments with Ody and Poseidon. Like wow those vocals were fantastic and full of emotions. The fact that Poseidon called him Monster is just wow and when Ody said "calling their captain in vain" that part hits so much.
fun fact, but Hera is the goddess of marriage so her part in god games has more to do with that and the history of ancient greek men being notorious for being cheaters. Their marriage outside of myth is actually an ideal, and Zeus' "kids" all come from royalty trying to rule, and having Zeus as your dad trumps everything as for as the right before everyone else, in worship, the two are known as Hera of Zeus, and Zeus of Hera (as husband and wife to each other). And Calypso is more of a manipulator and the love she had to give to Odysseus was an unhealthy one-sided kind of deal, trapping him for misery when he wanted to go home, only thinking about Penelope in the myth, and why Hermes has to essentially strong-arm her into letting Ody go, something we never got to see and was cut by Jorge
Re - how would you know how he got the power to fight Poseidon without the visuals : The clue would be the callback to "Keep your friends close" in the melody, it played during "Dangerous" too when Hermes mentioned the wind bag. While not as obvious as it would be in visual form - it's still implied in the music
3:41 No one. Telemachus said he’s been DREAMING of them remember? It implies either he’s having prophetic dreams or he just knows that these monsters exists and so he wants to check them out.
@ Ahhhh. In that case he might just mean Odysseus’ old war and young stories. He was a king for decades by the time he left for war (if I’m not mistaken) and since he was with Athena since his youth I’m sure he had many amazing stories long before the war.
the little wolf animation was actually made by a guy whos working on an actual epic the musical video game and he's been collaborating with jorge on it hence y jorge asked him to make the animation for little wolf with it being a very fighting game esc song
Penelope is queen, so she's regeant untill she remarries (and thus her husband gets it) or Telemachus becomes old enough and becomes king. Side note, this is why lots of noble ladies where taught house running and poltics and even kingdom running when they were young. As for a long time, it was assumed that if the men went to war, and it happened a lot(a peacetime ruler was rare, because that required a loooot of treaties) so it was assumed some time during a king/leader's rule would be spent dealing with/leading battles thus women had to know not only how to hold down the fort, but also how to do it with less people than expected.
I believe “I’m Not Sorry For Loving You” came from a genuine place for Calypso, but she doesn’t seem to see or understand how one-sided it all was. And why would she? 7 years is no time for an immortal. In her mind, she genuinely loved him, but in his she kept him trapped.
My original assumption, listening to just the music, was that Odyssious was close to death, and his 600 lost men were able to reach out and help him fight Poseidon, so that at least one of them could get home
Please react to Neal Illustrator God Games. The animatic, I believe, is the best interpretation of Jorge's song. Also I love your reactions and theorizing. It's just genuine and learning from all comments. I love how you aren't afraid to admit you were wrong. ❤ Keep up the great work!
I love the small detail that when Calypso says "why in the world wont you love me too?", the answer is in the song ending itself because it switches to strings, Penelope's instrument
One of the theories is that its ares helping him because his eyes are red. And athena promissed him bloodshed if ody made it home. And after athena is put out of commission ares sounds like he is remorseful saying 'is she dead?' So maybe the eyes show that ares is helping him. Because the glowing effects on characters shows godly influence.
I think my favorite thing I've heard someone say, and I havent seen it posted here yet but the reason Poseidon's screams and pleads are so melodic and not like actual screams is because they are music to Odysseus's ears. Another thing I saw was that the reason Poseidon say that he wanted to gouge out telemecus's eyes is because that is what Odysseus did to Polyphemus. The final thing ill add to this comment is when Poseidon finally gives in and cuts Odysseus off, it is right when Odysseus is throwing Poseidon's own montra back at him. Odysseus says "Ruthlessness is mercy upon..." and Poseidon stops him. He doesnt like to hear it thrown back at him.
When I say I was SO EXCITED for your reaction!!!! I've been refreshing your page since the livestream ended, I was hoping that you would have gotten the livestream because you definitely needed the visuals for this one, I'm so glad you circled back to the wisdom saga it just made your reaction to everything even better!!!!!!!
For the ruling bit For the first 10 years it was well known that Ody was at the Trojan war, along with a bunch of other kings So the Queen ruling while waiting for her husband was considered completly understandable, however, at the 10-11 year mark other kings and people started returning, and the suiters started to make moves because 'hey if the kings not back he must be dead!' Penelope didn't belive it, (and if she did she still didnt want to marry anyone else) so she's been ruling for those next ten years, though unfortunatly due to rules of hospitality and stuff she couldn't kick the suitors out on her own, :(
Someone in the live stream pointed out with his eyes being red, the only other person we’ve seen with the red eyes is Ares, Ares wanted bloodshed, this is his bloodshed. (Speculation, but to me it fits)
When I just listened to the audio for the first time I thought odyseuss opened the bag and the 600 men formed in the clouds storming (pun not intended) out of the bag and all punching Poseidon down. In my opinion that’s how it should’ve went
Barbra Wangui (the voice of Calypso) will pull at your heartstrings, but don't let the talent of the voice actress overshadow the facts. Calypso is an abuser and what she shared with Odysseus was a trauma bond at best. She's an immortal wasting HIS time. Those seven years is time hell never get back. it's time he could've been spending with his wife and son. She kept him prisoner and abused and manipulated him, there's a power imbalance that will never make the Ody a concenting participant in anything they did. We love Barbara Wangui. But when I find you, Calypso
There actually is a motif in six hundred strike that shows that the wind bag was opened. It’s subtle, but at the beginning, there is the aolus motif of wind pipe instruments, and the floaty vocals. Subtle, but still it’s there.
Look, I think we can all agree that Calypso’s backstory is sad. However, that DOES NOT justify what she did to Ody. Her song is not a full apology. Using “if” in: “IF I pushed you” “IF I came on to strong” IF I ambushed you”, this is her minimizing what she did. And she may admit fault to those things but then she essentially cancels that out with her next words: “and IF you hate me, THEN I am sorry my love’s too much for you.” This is putting all the blame on the Ody and instead making herself the victim. This is not how you apologize, it is essentially “I’m sorry you feel that way.” “I’m not sorry for loving you” she is telling him she would do it again. Next she tried to justify. “But when you washed ashore, I thought for sure that you were my dream come true. I thought I knew.” The FIRST WORDS Ody tells her when he woke up was that he’s married! But she IGNORES THAT. “Soon into bed we’ll climb and spend our time.” “I’M NOT YOUR MAN.” “I’m no pet, I’M A MARRIED MAN!” “You’re mine. All mine.” She fell in love with a married man who just wanted to get back to his wife and family. That’s on her. She also uses the words of his loved ones against him. “I know your life’s been hard. I’LL STAY INSIDE YOUR HEART.” Ody’s mom. “Please stay away from harm. STAY IN MY OPEN ARMS.” Polites. I get that she has been alone for 100 years and was lonely, but she forced herself onto Ody when he didn’t want it. And she forced him for SEVEN YEARS. Only when he’s being taken away from her does she “apologize” because she’s trying to manipulate him into staying. “I’m angry and tired and restless and sad.” What do you think Ody has been feeling all this time?? “I love you” “You do?” She thought she’d won and he was staying. “But not in the way that you want me to. “I hate that I feel in love with you!” He’s not staying and now she’s lashing out. “Why did I fall in love with you!” “What do I do with this love for you?” “How am I supposed to get over you?” “Why in the world won’t her love me to?” Lastly, Ody has no obligations to comfort his abuser. He was forced into a physical relationship he didn’t want for years and so when he is free, it is not his responsibility to make sure that Calypso is ok. She brought this upon herself. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
This calypso is i think being genuine, but the problem is shes still being abusive, too. "I'm sorry my love is too much for you" is like.. ACTUALLY a classic abuser line. Like "you couldve been happy if YOU could love me just as much as i love you." Shes blaming HIM for how he took being imprisoned on her island BY HER
@markjack9772 nah, the problem is that the abuser isn't always AWARE that they're being abusive. I fully believe that Calypso absolutely loves Odysseus, but because of her past, the way she's going about loving him is emotionally abusive. It's important to remember she kept him prisoner on her island for 7 years, said his feelings were only negative because he couldn't handle her love, and continued to try to pressure him into loving her via guilt and Stockholm syndrome.
So I'm 100% convinced that Athena is recovering right now and that's why Hermes was being sly about his implications. I feel like he would have been upset if Athena had actually died.
There is always a lot of discourse on what is canon or a valid interpretation. I just want to say that, as it always is with art, any message and meaning is found in the audience as much as it might be communicated from the artist. Yes, Jorge had his thoughts and maybe an intended message. It is always received through the audiences' filters, experiences, interpretations, and understanding so there is no right or wrong interpretation or understanding of art. There is just the one (or ones) that resonates and makes sense with each individual or group who might come to a consensus. One of the most beautiful things about art is the way it speaks to everyone where they are, as we change and grow, we may find new meanings as we experience it anew.
Nah calypso isnt that evil or that good in greek mythology shes both shades of good and evil ofc she fought in the titanomachy coz atlas was her dad and he was the general of the titans
@@EchoedR Depends on the version, in some versions it wasn't "r-word" and was consensual. In Hesiod's version of Calypso, she had 2 sons with Odysseus and it's not implied that it was "r-word", in some versions they even get married.
@@kryzzan7039 Giving the fact that Epic adapts the Odyssey (not saying the events in the odyssey are the same as in epic, they clearly aren't) I'm more partial to looking at that version, as it's also one of the earliest (or the earliest of this scenario since I don't think Hesiod’s version comes before). Oldest tellings/most notable tellings tend to be more telling to me when it comes to Greek stories
The voice of Telemachus is named Miguel! He’s an artist from Toronto, he used to be friends with my fiancé too! (She even helped make one of his outfits for one of his first concerts)
So the music does imply that the wind bag is involved because you can hear the same motif that is from keep your friends close that is commonly associated with the windbag. He mentions a lot in his music that he likes to carry these motifs throughout his music to kind of hint at when there’s God’s watching or involved
27:18 I've got to say I love the immediate thousand yard stare when she said I'm sorry my love is too much for you, those eyes said the exact same thing I was kind of thinking, at least something along the same lines, I told this joke before but she can just take this apology video, toss it into a flaming dumpster,nuke the dumpster, and then snort the ashes, because it's no longer going to do her any good, that phrase is so much tied to manipulation that you aren't going to get much sympathy after you say something like that.
I'm so excited for this as it's a crime how you make us wait 2 months for the wisdom saga re-reaction. I find it really interesting how Oddy finally able to get to his island after he's alone. Ngl, Eurolychus and others is a dead weight man except Polites
Quick reminder that 550/600 of Odysseus’s men died to Poseidon, we know this because when Poseidon said “43 left under your command” that all but 43 died but when he went to the underworld it was “558 men who died under your command” which 558+43 is 601 so there was 1 who died at Circe’s (Elpenor who drank wine and fell off the roof and snapped his neck) and then out of the 42 left 6 died to Scylla and 35 died to Zeus leaving just Odysseus, and based on the number of club strikes in Survive 7 died to Polyphemus which means EVERYONE ELSE DIED TO POSEIDON which is why he said “Almost all of whom were slaughtered by your hand” because 11/12ths of his crew died to Poseidon
She genuinely thought she’d am be able to convince him to stay if she guilted him enough. Whether she was consciously aware that that’s what she was doing is debatable, but the end result is the same.
Tbh, i think "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" is a mixed bag. Calypso is a tragic figure, and i think this version is aware she f-ed up Odysseus's life, but she is also desperate. She is manipulating through song (in the myths, she also sings to hypnotize Odysseus), AND genuine regret. It is all shd really knows, and she is fighting with herself not to try to control Odysseus again. But Odysseus is done. He completely sees through the song, and kno was s the best thing for him AND her is to leave as quickly as possible, now that he can for a brief moment. She is a narcissist, but not an evil one. She is a Titan that is severely limited, and clinging on to anythinv she possibly could.
There is a snippet of Aeolus’ motif in the opening of 600 Strike. That’s the audio cue to let you know he opened the bag. It’s a minor detail, but it’s there.
Based off the music and the 600 men singing I feel his power to beat Poseidon came from the 600 men or even the 600 men in ghost form gave him the 600 strikes. The vocals from the 600 men implies they are there with him
44:53 I think we all collectively had the same exact response when we first heard this. Literally mind altering stuff there from Jorge. Great reaction!
I personally think Aclypso was genuine with her words, and her apologies. But the thing is, she never actually apologizes for hurting Odysseus. (In the musical we can't really know, but it's pretty clear in the stories she constantly forced herself upon Ody in any way she seemed fit, sexually too. In the Musical we only see that he is clearly struggling while he is trapped there, but what is actually happening is left unsaid). Aclypso apologies that Odysseus can't "handle her love", not that she was being cruel to him. Love your reactions:)
46:32 Poseidon did literally flat out say that Ody opened the wind bag to defeat him, but I listened to just the audio originally and I too was thrown off by the brief moment of instrumentals with no visuals. However Jorge also did this in Done For where we’re just supposed to assume Circe and Ody summon a Cyclops and Chimera to fight their battles, or how the lyrics in Scylla don’t describe how Eurylacus was not eaten, or how the lyrics of Different Beast don’t mention the surviving Sirens that Athena references in God Games, or even describe what the gods are physically doing in God Games or if Zeus had sympathy for his daughters near death at his hands. There’s even some reactors who weren’t sure after first viewing if Ody killed the infant in just a man. There’s definitely a lot of visual storytelling in this musical compared to others where they really only have music breaks for dancing or generic fighting so I get it. That’s why I’m glad the animatics and animations are available to help show what’s going on
At the very beggining of 600 strike. The song cues are: You hear aeoulus vocals => the bag, the oooooh's You hear the rock gituar + ody's theme => about Ody + him being cunning The choir => singing the danger theme. Later when he's attacking you hear the backing of the crew, something really only Ody, but more specfically Eury got. But their all dead, so is it the memory of them or their ghosts pushing him on, but something is going on there fyi Then before he attacks poisden you hear different beast(Ody going into his monster self, and it being shown outwardly) Then you hear all the motifs when he's stabbing posiden, which is like monster, ruthlessness, and I think part of the stuff when he got the infant(not sure about it).
I’m pretty sure it was goddess Ino or Ares, Ares because Athena did promise bloodshed when he got home and he wouldn’t get that bloodshed if odyssey didn’t get home, Odysseus eyes turned red like ares are and then there’s also the fact Athena is his sister and they are both gods of war, he’s on the brute side while Athena is all about strategy, they have pretty intense sibling rivalry but I’d imagine they both get curious on why they do certain things they themselves wouldn’t like how Athena is fighting for odyssey and his son and he doesn’t get the “appeal” so it could be likely he was just curious and wanted to see how odyssey would fight poseidon. As for goddess Ino, in the original she saved Odysseus by giving him her cloak or something like a cloak to hide him from poseidon, but it was only to hide and not fight and the entire timeline in Greek mythology is all over the place so I was never able to tell at what specific point did specific gods or deities help odyssey. She’s also not a well known god either, the odyssey was the only place I’ve seen her mentioned, she’s a sea goddess but she was human, she was a queen and I think her husband went crazy or something and she jumped off a cliff into the sea with her son, but Aphrodite is her grandmother so she asked poseidon to save them and he turned her into a goddess. I bring her up as one of the possibilities because of the original stories but it would be wild if she betrayed poseidon that massively in this version, she’d have some balls of steel to betray the one who turned her into a god. Ares however, there no reason I could think of as to why he wouldn’t or why it wouldn’t make sense but it just fits so well it almost feels impossible for it to not be the case, well at least for me I’m not sure about others.
Just a wee fan theory I like which may help explain how he was able to beat Poseidon. The glowing red eyes of Ody is because he was getting some sort of boost from Ares, after what happened to Athena I'm god games. I het it's not likely I just like the idea of it, otherwise it just seems no plausible.
I also have a small theory. I think using his Shatter the Ocean made Poseidon weaker because it drained some of his power, thus Odysseus was able to beat him
So there actually is an implication in the music that Odysseus opened the wind bag! It's just kind of subtle, with Aeolus' wind pipes playing in the background when it gets opened. It's not like super explicit but the hint is there
FUN FACT!!!
Charybdis is essentially just a large animal born from a god, she isn't there to just kill anyone in particular. Her job is to just basically drink the water 3 times a day.
Once she has sucked in enough prey she will spit out the excess water and since she didnt have anything against Odysseus there was no point in attacking him.
Shes not aggressive, just there to get her daily meal and odysseus happened to be there at that time haha
Well, that and she helped Poseidon sink an island that Zeus was fond of and as punishment, got locked alongside Scylla to act as a guardian for that strait of water.
Yeah, Ody had no choice BUT to face Charybdis otherwise he’d be next to Scylla again and that’d be a guaranteed death sentence for him.
@@CaptainFirespitterin some versions she was actually Poseidon’s daughter who wanted to please her father and sunk the land and ofc Zeus was like “You’re now the monster rawr rawr rawr”
In the Odyssey and the part that I know Charybdis and Scylla are in the same lair but just on opposite ends and there are many versions of this part and in the version that I know Odysseus didn’t sacrifice his men frankly he is sailing to Charybdis and is very careful in avoiding Charybdis but Scylla somehow snuck on the ship and ate the six men so Odysseus never intended to sacrifice his men
@@Belphie07 she was basically "Daddy, look what I can do! Are you proud of me?"
Calypso is neither good or bad.
Penelope was ruling the kingdom while Odysseus was gone. Telemachus in the book went searching for his father and got the stories from those who he contacted before he disappeared and thought lost at sea while he was on Calypso's island.
In this case the lyrics, "stuck in my bedroom, living in this world you left behind" as well as "I've never felt strong before" implies to me that he's been home the whole time. I think the stories are probably the stories from before Odysseus left for war. I get that that's a change from the book but that's what it sounds like to me.
@@calebeaton8777in the wisdom saga it doesn't sound like he's ever left the island. But seeing as we're doing time jumps within these last few sagas (like how Ody managed to get from Ogygia to being at the coast of Ithaca in one song), I can see how it could just be passingly mentioned that Telemachus went off the island for a little bit as a reference to it in the next saga.
@@calebeaton8777I think he went off the island after meeting Athena, and the stories mentioned in Legendary are probably from before the war and heard from people who returned and visited Ithaca maybe? also SPOILERS(if you haven't watched future snippets)
in "Hold them down" Antinous mentions Telemachus coming back on his birthday so there's that
@@Autumn-xs1bt Hey there! Actually, that isn't entirely accurate. SPOILER WARNING:
That's actually a meme version of the song. The original has nothing to do with a birthday, that cover was just a joke. Telemachus is coming back from a "diplomatic mission." Antinous is actually planning to kill Telemachus upon his return in order to thwart any potential effort Telemachus may make to stop them as he's getting bolder. And that version of the story may not even be current anymore considering the changes Jorge made in "We'll Be Fine." He explained this plot change in one of his most recent pattern-exclusive, monthly choice videos.
@@toastypuppy4042 what did he change?
😭 oh my God, I just realized that in dangerous when he’s singing the “with only one goal in mind”
He doesn’t sing the next part because the crew was the one to sing that in the original
I think that's why he says no fleet no band after the silence
"Make it back alive to our homeland". Welp.
And there’s no sound (not even a muffled voice like in God Games on the cliff) because now he’s completely forgotten their voices.
Ive seen this fan theory floating around connecting Odysesus' red eyes to ARES. He was the one who asked if athena was alive and athena promised bloodshed if ARES agreed to let him go. Being siblings ares wanted to know waht athena saw in odyseus
This is now the truth, change approved!
OK THAAAT MAKES MORE SENSE
bro rlly turned him into goku
That only happens when Ares uses "Dark Quick Thought" on people to induce anger, if the motif isn't in 600 Strike, then Ares didn't help a single bit, i've heard the song a darn 30ish times by now (lol) and i still didn't find the DQT motif, why do i know the motif exists? It was in God Games
I've seen a different theory that the red eyes represent the monster. Because the prophet said he saw Ody draw his final breath and that he would no longer be himself, they reasoned that Ody "died" at the end of Get in the Water. And the one who lived to beat Poseidon was the monster, signified by red eyes.
The implication of "600 Strike" is that this is a combination of Ody, the Monster, AND the 600 men he lost boosting him. That this isn't just Ody's revenge, it's the revenge of the crew.
And the help of Ares (the eyes, only other person with red eyes we’ve seen is Ares in God Games. Ares wanted bloodshed)
@@madisonbrown5646 Not necessarily. The Ares thing is purely speculation as of the moment
1. We HAVE seen Ody with red eyes before in, iirc, Remember Them and Different Beast. But it wasn't mentioned anywhere that Ares helped him in those times.
2. We didn't hear Ares's motif or even his instrument (the erhu, if I'm not mistaken) playing during 600 Strike. If he were there to help, we would've heard it.
Take Little Wolf for example. When Athena started helping Telemachus, we could hear her motif being played with her instrument (the piano)
"But Ares wanted bloodshed" and Athena wanted Telemachus beat Antinous. (Ok ngl, this last statement is such a poor choice of defense but I kinda just wanted to try and say smth badass XDD)
Edit:
I'm not saying "Ares didn't help." Just that we aren't 100% sure he did.
I'm only stating what I believe. Please don't start any arguments if you don't have anything proper to say
@ true but it’s a cool theory to think about though!
@@madisonbrown5646 truu
And isn't Hermes his grandfather? So technically he'd be part god too. 👀
Hermes: "When danger greets you with a *smile* "
Charybdis: *_Giant Maw of Teeth_*
I see you, Hermes, Master of Puns
I have my own theory that that section of Hermes' song is about Antinuous planning to kill Telemachus on the beach, in "Hold Them Down".
I mean those lines, "When strangers lurk around the isle, when danger greets you with a smile."
Just a thought. 💃
Until I read this comment, I didn't even make the connection.
@@disableddragonborn I live to inspire. 🙇🏽♀️
I thought he was referring to Poseidon since he was literally smiling when he saw Odysseus again.
I like the way you put together I didn’t think of it like that
Notice how Athena flies directly into Tiresias’ eyes? That man could “see” her even _then._ He could see her diving back to find Odysseus.
Bro watched the time dive?
@@VillainVac Yeah, Jorge confirmed Tiresias was seeing her in that moment.
@@VillainVacyeah cause tiresias has been mending for so long thats hos poweful he iz now
Not a god
But he could see nearly endless time in the futre
There are accounts in Greek myth of mortals rocking gods' shit, usually with aid from another god or their family history. Odysseus is the great grandson(?) of Hermes, and he is related to Zeus by that. So he isn't completely mortal. Trickery is also a common tactic. Thanks to the red eyes and Jorge's explanation of how Athena and Ares have similar powers, a part of me wants to think Ares gave Odysseus that boost since Athena is out of commission.
But yeah, greek gods can't be killed but they can certainly feel pain. Poseidon made this monster.
wasn't there a story about Achilles during the Trojan war going apeshit and taking on two gods before having to have his sides gods step him.
Based on the spirits in Get In The Water I was thinking Hades, but yea Area makes more sense
@devinwhite5064 pretty sure achilles only fought one river god but another character in the illiad diomedes did fight both ares and aphrodite
Also Hercules. Just all of Hercules. The gods response to some feats where, "Someone stop him... But you first."
@@devinwhite5064you might be thinking of Diomedes, who absolutely rocked the shit out of Ares and Aphrodite during the Trojan war with Athena’s aid lmao
Fun fact: Hermes is Odysseus' great grandfather and that blood making him a partial demigod is why Ody an hold up so well against everything.
4:38 If I remember right, Penelope ruled in the 20 years Odysseus was gone because she was the daughter of the Spartan King Icarus. She devised cunning plans to stall the suitors, but as the song said, she was running out of time holding them off for 20 years
With Calypso, in Jorge's version at least, she genuinely loved Odysseus. She was left on that island as a young girl and had no one to care for her in any capacity, whether as a parent, friend, or lover. The thing with Calypso's island is that it is magic: it is hidden from everyone, and no one can come or go without divine intervention. So, you add all that together, you have a touch-starved deity who gets a rather handsome man dropped on her doorstep, and she thinks her loneliness is at an end, she has someone to love and who will love her in return. And since no one was around to teach her about proper relationships, she bombarded an already taken man with persistent affection and romantic overtures that said man did not want.
In Jorge's version, Odysseus came to care for her as a friend, because I think he could understand her loneliness a bit. And the fact that she tried so, so hard to help him recover from all of his countless losses, and kept him from calling it quits on living who knows how many times. But Calypso, not knowing the differences between the types of love because she never experienced them and was not taught by anyone, took his lack of romantic love as an outright rejection of her as a person. And now, with Odysseus making his way back to where he belongs, she's left alone again. Jorge's version of Calypso is one where people can sympathize with her, but who also know that her behaviour was not okay by any means. But it gives an explanation as to why she thought it WAS okay.
Most of that stuff is just from the OG myth
From what I remember, she is a Titan. She was banished to this island by the gods. She is not like Circe, in that she doesn't have the ability to put spells on people.
When Odysseus is underwater at the start of 600 Strike, you hear Aeolus’s motif, which does imply him opening the windbag. Also, based off of his glowing red eyes it is theorized that he does have some outside help from Athena, or maybe even Ares.
The red eyes implies Ares, which also makes sense since Ares was concerned about Athena when he said “Is she dead?” At the end of God Games.
Or maybe it’s just a stylistic choice to show the monster side of Odysseus, since his eyes have been red before in the official visuals, specifically in Remember Them and Different Beast (If I remember correctly).
I think it's a stylistic choice because Ares does have a motif for his "dark quick thought" as Jorge put it. The motif is absent in six hundred strike and there is a motif any time a quick thought is used in the series.
@@arghhhhy5874 ok, I was going to go back and listen for any other matching motifs but forgot 😅
I would’ve expected to hear piano or snare drums (or whatever it was that Ares used, and of course Athena’s) for them to be involved and I don’t believe they are.
@@Synthesyn342 I believe when Ares interrupts Athena's Quick Thought in God Games, A violin is playing, which is probably what we would be looking for in this song if he had any involvement
@@hydrashok2691 Ares' instrument is actually an erhu, which Mr Jalapeño did as a nod to Sun Tzu's "The Art of War"
@@thomasburr8055 I don’t know what that sounds like, but there was very prevalent “war drums” during his part of God Games.
Haphestus’s was cast out by his mother Hera as a baby and his wife Aphrodite cheats on him relentlessly with his brother Ares so loyalty is a sore spot for hephatus and him understanding that Odysseus was betrayed first helps convince him
On the negative side, he forced Aphrodite to marry him, So I expect that she would not be faithful to Hefestus.
There's also another account in The Odyssey, because homer specifically says that Zeus threw Hephaestus off of Mount Olympus when he tried to protect his mom during one of their arguments, which at least in this version would give him a better reason to fight be on the side opposite of Zeus, not to mention the fact that it makes Zeus's outburst make a bit more sense, because obviously if he's willing to abuse one of his kids he'd even be willing to abuse his favorite child (in fact I think he actually does something like this to her specifically in The Iliad?)
Calypso, to my knowledge, doesn't actually have powers of persuasion. "7 years she kept you out of your control" is a reference to the fact that no one can leave the island. He was trapped because he genuinely was unable to leave. But neither can she.
"Next to my wife" WAS SO HARD odysseus is the standard. Hamilton could never
The correct answer is technically “with the fishes” because no one has explained why Poseidon wont just spin the block again and kill everyone. Odysseus got insanely lucky there and if Poseidon is genuinely blood lusted he could as he said “raise the tide so high all of Ithaca will die”
46:10 we hear aeolus' theme repeating when he's reaching for the bag
I love how feral Ody became. So enraged and livid, he gouged Poseidons left eye. In the last few frames you can see his eye socket bloody and his eye no longer glowing. That’s one way to humble a god.
Oh just wait.
"King" is going to be absolutely insane
Ok but like how do I put this. What is stopping Poseidon from wanting the run back? Like genuinely whats stopping him? Its not gonna be fear because Odysseus got insanely lucky and without divine help is not winning the rematch, its not divine intervention since as far as Im aware no one has tried to stop Poseidon from killing Odysseus or tell him off for it so really Im just stuck wondering how Odysseus avoid the utter hell Poseidon is able to rain down. Hell Poseidon wouldn't even need to be in the area he could just cause a massive earthquake or follow through on his threat to “raise the tides so high all of Ithaca will die”.
@joshuafrazier3904 So this is actually something fun! Gods in mythology can infact get their SHIT ROCKED, for example, Diomedes beating ares And aphrodite like a rug. And when gods are wounded, they actually typically heal SLOWER than mortals according to myths, Godly wounds requires godly healing, and while there Are divine "healers" like say, apollo or asclepius.....Zeus and Poseidon have a habit of pissing them off, meaning no godly medical treatment and therefore slower "recovery" not to mention by stories end? Odysseus has most of the other Olympians rooting for him, so poseidon can't really touch him.
Calypso is... complicated. "I'm not sorry for loving you" IS mostly genuine. Calypso is cursed to her island. No one can leave, and no one can find it. She's just as much a prisoner as anyone else. Odysseus was losing it after 7 years; Calypso's been stuck there for HUNDREDS. Not only that, she's cursed to fall in love with whoever washes up on her island.
BUT, that isn't an excuse for her to abuse and manipulate anyone who gets stuck there. The things she forced Odysseus to do are unacceptable, no matter her reasons. But her reasons DO make it easier to see why she did the things she did.
Small correction, her being cursed to fall in love with whoever washes up on her island is a Percy Jackson only thing! It's not a thing in the original myth. I completely agree with everything else in your comment though! :) It was worded nicely
I just loved your reaction, and it was funny how I imagined this:
-Dave: "Now I can say his name now (Eurylochus)"
-Eurylochus: 💀👏🏻
I’m so happy 😂
@@whatitdodaveTelemachus still having his name pronounced wrong: 👍 “ It’s ok”
@@_SSCJ I'll have it down by next saga haha
Yoooo, this stream was honestly insane. It was the first time I could catch one and was so worth it. Six Hundred Strike especially is cold af and cool af.
Oh, also, fun fact in case you didn't know: the guy who did the fight scene in Little Wolf iirc is making an Epic: The Musical game or something like that.
Another "fun" fact: Poseidon is missing an eye when you see him after he says the "Alright!" It's pretty hard to catch cuz of how quick the part goes by, but lad got pretty banged up. Figured I'd point that out for any who missed it.
honestly really want an Asura's wrath style game based off of Epic.
@devinwhite5064 that sounds epic (pun intended lmao)
Don't worry Calypso, I'm sure it will work out in a thousand years or so when you find Davie Jones.
Or even longer for a certain Leo Valdez
@@baronnexus8524 i did not expect to get Heroes of Olympus spoilers under a EPIC reaction... Well time to keep reading the books to see what the hell is going on there-
The music implication for the wind bag is the wind motif. you'll *immediately* spot it if you listen to Keep Your Friends close again.
Odysessus son is 20 years old. Odyesssus mother held control while he was gone. She held respect and helped penolope but when she died penolope took control...oh by the way when posiden killed 500 of his men that made his mother believe that odyessus died so she died then
550 actually
I love that the animatic designs for the characters are less so based on media and depictions of them, but instead they are based on the people actually voicing the characters. - it took me until god games to figure this out.
This is actually extremely common in musical theatre fandoms! If you take a look at Hamilton animatics, for example, all the characters are drawn as their on-stage actors. So it was natural for everyone to just draw Epic characters looking like their voice actors, since they’re the only ones we have lol ^-^
In the music, you start hearing Aeolus's melody which is supposed to hint at him opening the wind bag. But yes, the animatics are pretty essential to grasp whats going on. Like i was NOT thinking of a jetpack when i first listened to it.
Yeah tbh I had no clue what was going on. I figured he used the windbag to get Poseidon to Charybdis to fight him. I think its the weakest song in the whole musical for the simple fact that it requires visuals whereas the other songs dont.
Honestly I don’t know how to explain this but your voice is so dang calming like, a bob ross painting video playing late at night vibes, not in a weird way but I could probably fall asleep watching your videos bc of how calming you sound
The thing about Calypso here is that... I don't think she's trying to convince him to stay, I don't think she's apologising. I think she knows Odysseus will leave, and that she will be alone - again - for eternity. And so this is basically her trying to get closure in preperation. It's a selfish song, but that makes sense and I can't blame her. Odysseus gets to go back home and she'll still be on that island, trapped, forever, and nobody gives a shit about her. She was cast away and abandoned and she's now fucked up the only real relationship she could've had, and that's tragic. It doesn't absolve her of the harm she caused Odysseus but you can be both an abuser and a victim and I cannot help but be sympathetic to her, here. There is no version of this story where Odysseus stays with her, regardless of how she treated him.
In the original Odyssey, it’s intriguing that Calypso argues with Hermes when he conveys Zeus's order to release Odysseus. She points out the double standard among the gods, saying that "the gods detest it when goddesses take mortal lovers, yet the gods themselves are free to take as many mortal lovers as they please."
45:57 Aeolus the wind gods theme was playing in background showing that he got the power from the wind bag also in epic jay said that Poseidon is a long range fighter so Odysseus just had to get close and repeated attack him hence six hundred strike
Love the mutual grooving with Jorge in Dangerous 🤣
I'VE BEEN WAITING... FOR THIS MOMENT... FOR THE PERFECT TIME TO REACT!!!!
OMG SO EXCITED! I love your reactions, thank you for circling back so I can reget your insight for Wisdom Saga (I'm sorry the fandom kinda clapped you in the comments for not having the context that they did, as if what they know is universal knowledge)
Honestly, a lot of the comments made me so sad for him 😭 But he seems to have taken it like a champ and very humbly apologized for misunderstanding (even though he absolutely didn't need to). It's definitely fun to see the clarity between his wisdom saga reactions
Calypso was one of the Titans, kinda like Atlas, and was imprisoned on her island. She was the Goddess of Mysterious and secrets if I remember right. She made Odysseus immortal and was trying to get him to break out of his grief, in some variations did some very non-concentual things to him. But there is common story point of him often just spending hours, if not days, just sitting and starring out to sea and weeping. Wanting nothing more than freedom, not only from the island but from his own demons. As a personal note, I imagine Calypso was stopping Ody from jumping not to save his life but to save him from pain. He would have survived a tortuous fall and impact because of the immortality she gifted him with and been pushed back, body broken and alive, to the island by the imprisonment of the sea.
She is generally considered a nymph, although she is also usually seen as the daughter of the titan Atlas
Also, it is known that she was trapped on the island her entire life as punishment for her dad. Hence she was genuinely in love with ody because he was the only man she ever saw. This also means that she is giving up any chance for love to let ody go
DONT BE AFRAID TO MAKE CALYPSO EVIL PLEASE TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TELL STORIES ABT MALE SA VICTIMS WHOS ABUSER WAS A WOMAN THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD MORE
@drpigglesnuudelworte5209 I completely agree. Just because she was sad doesn't make her right
Technically it is implied in the music. You can hear Aeolus' theme before the 600 men motiff comes in
Dangerous is such a bop
I had to groove. I’m sure you did too!
I interpret 600 strike as being a command to his men that were drowned, not an ultimate attack like it was portrayed in the amv. He opens the windbag to trap Poseidon and then commands the souls of the dead to aid him. If I remember right this confrontation doesn't happen in the actual Odyssey, so creative liberties and whatnot. On the other had, heck yeah windbag-jetpack😅
46:17 if you listen to keep your friends close, the wind god has a sound that lets you know their there and when the bag gets opened, you can hear it then too. that’s how i knew, but if you don’t pay attention it’s pretty easy to miss (idk how to explain sorry 😭)
Telemachus could not ascend to the throne because, in ancient Greece, a new king needed approval from a council of powerful leaders. Odysseus had vanished when Telemachus was only around ten-far too young to rule-and with Penelope still of an age to remarry and bear children, the council saw an opportunity to secure the throne for their own families. They sent their sons and grandsons to court Penelope, hoping she would choose one of them. Meanwhile, these suitors consumed Telemachus' inheritance, as the royal household was obliged to provide them with food and shelter. The council argued that Telemachus was not yet a man by their culture's standards, as he lacked combat training and experience in warfare, having remained at home to protect his mother. As a result, Ithaca remained in a political limbo, with no true leader.
As a person who was SA'd and manipulated I hate Clypso's song. She wasn't sorry and it takes her till he is being taken away to say this. She's sorry he gets to leave. She was a godess with all the power keeping him there 7 years against his will. If she truly loved him She would have let him go when he wanted to jump. People who love you really wouldn't do that to another. She was waiting for anyone which is sad but not an excuse. It makes me sick the amount of people saying to take her with Ody, her victim. Even if she left with him she would recent ody and Penelopes love. She's a goddess so it wouldn't turn out well. It sucks she's trapped on the island alone but she could have just been odys friend instead of pushing herself on him.
She more fell into obsession, then love. Calypso is pretty delusional, as her own lyrics go. She spent seven years ignoring the word “no”, “I have a wife”, and Odysseus nearly jumping off of a cliff because of it all. “Why in the world won’t you love me to?!” Girl, his first statement was how he has a wife.
Amazing reaction! My fave is the final moments with Ody and Poseidon. Like wow those vocals were fantastic and full of emotions. The fact that Poseidon called him Monster is just wow and when Ody said "calling their captain in vain" that part hits so much.
fun fact, but Hera is the goddess of marriage so her part in god games has more to do with that and the history of ancient greek men being notorious for being cheaters. Their marriage outside of myth is actually an ideal, and Zeus' "kids" all come from royalty trying to rule, and having Zeus as your dad trumps everything as for as the right before everyone else, in worship, the two are known as Hera of Zeus, and Zeus of Hera (as husband and wife to each other).
And Calypso is more of a manipulator and the love she had to give to Odysseus was an unhealthy one-sided kind of deal, trapping him for misery when he wanted to go home, only thinking about Penelope in the myth, and why Hermes has to essentially strong-arm her into letting Ody go, something we never got to see and was cut by Jorge
Re - how would you know how he got the power to fight Poseidon without the visuals : The clue would be the callback to "Keep your friends close" in the melody, it played during "Dangerous" too when Hermes mentioned the wind bag. While not as obvious as it would be in visual form - it's still implied in the music
"Nah, you don't take that many hits without triggering his ultimate combo. He done hit you with the 30 pc Popeyes combo WITH the biscuit"
🤣🤣🤣
3:41 No one. Telemachus said he’s been DREAMING of them remember? It implies either he’s having prophetic dreams or he just knows that these monsters exists and so he wants to check them out.
I think he meant the "cause I'm stuck with your stories, but no clue who you are" part, not the monsters
@ Ahhhh. In that case he might just mean Odysseus’ old war and young stories. He was a king for decades by the time he left for war (if I’m not mistaken) and since he was with Athena since his youth I’m sure he had many amazing stories long before the war.
the little wolf animation was actually made by a guy whos working on an actual epic the musical video game and he's been collaborating with jorge on it hence y jorge asked him to make the animation for little wolf with it being a very fighting game esc song
Penelope is queen, so she's regeant untill she remarries (and thus her husband gets it) or Telemachus becomes old enough and becomes king.
Side note, this is why lots of noble ladies where taught house running and poltics and even kingdom running when they were young. As for a long time, it was assumed that if the men went to war, and it happened a lot(a peacetime ruler was rare, because that required a loooot of treaties) so it was assumed some time during a king/leader's rule would be spent dealing with/leading battles thus women had to know not only how to hold down the fort, but also how to do it with less people than expected.
I believe “I’m Not Sorry For Loving You” came from a genuine place for Calypso, but she doesn’t seem to see or understand how one-sided it all was. And why would she? 7 years is no time for an immortal.
In her mind, she genuinely loved him, but in his she kept him trapped.
My original assumption, listening to just the music, was that Odyssious was close to death, and his 600 lost men were able to reach out and help him fight Poseidon, so that at least one of them could get home
Please react to Neal Illustrator God Games. The animatic, I believe, is the best interpretation of Jorge's song.
Also I love your reactions and theorizing. It's just genuine and learning from all comments. I love how you aren't afraid to admit you were wrong. ❤
Keep up the great work!
The silence where his crew usually sing 'to make it back alive to our homeland' really hits me
I love the small detail that when Calypso says "why in the world wont you love me too?", the answer is in the song ending itself because it switches to strings, Penelope's instrument
One of the theories is that its ares helping him because his eyes are red. And athena promissed him bloodshed if ody made it home. And after athena is put out of commission ares sounds like he is remorseful saying 'is she dead?' So maybe the eyes show that ares is helping him. Because the glowing effects on characters shows godly influence.
I think my favorite thing I've heard someone say, and I havent seen it posted here yet but the reason Poseidon's screams and pleads are so melodic and not like actual screams is because they are music to Odysseus's ears. Another thing I saw was that the reason Poseidon say that he wanted to gouge out telemecus's eyes is because that is what Odysseus did to Polyphemus. The final thing ill add to this comment is when Poseidon finally gives in and cuts Odysseus off, it is right when Odysseus is throwing Poseidon's own montra back at him. Odysseus says "Ruthlessness is mercy upon..." and Poseidon stops him. He doesnt like to hear it thrown back at him.
The wind God's Melody starts playing before he opens the bag
45:58 the audio implies something happened with the wind bag you hear the instrumental of Aeolus mix in as he grabs the bag and starts fighting
When I say I was SO EXCITED for your reaction!!!! I've been refreshing your page since the livestream ended, I was hoping that you would have gotten the livestream because you definitely needed the visuals for this one, I'm so glad you circled back to the wisdom saga it just made your reaction to everything even better!!!!!!!
Wisdom redemption lmao
Edit: not me dancing in bed at 7:30 AM LMAO
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOUR REACTION. AH! I'M SO GLAD YOU ENJOYED THIS ❤❤❤
He was trained personally by Athena to be the greatest General and tactician train to see the opportunities in the obstacles
For the ruling bit For the first 10 years it was well known that Ody was at the Trojan war, along with a bunch of other kings So the Queen ruling while waiting for her husband was considered completly understandable, however, at the 10-11 year mark other kings and people started returning, and the suiters started to make moves because 'hey if the kings not back he must be dead!' Penelope didn't belive it, (and if she did she still didnt want to marry anyone else) so she's been ruling for those next ten years, though unfortunatly due to rules of hospitality and stuff she couldn't kick the suitors out on her own, :(
27:43 THIS Calypso is genuine.
Why do I keep seeing people say this she was genuine in the myth
Group jam dance with Jorge? Gotta leave a like.
Someone in the live stream pointed out with his eyes being red, the only other person we’ve seen with the red eyes is Ares, Ares wanted bloodshed, this is his bloodshed. (Speculation, but to me it fits)
When I just listened to the audio for the first time I thought odyseuss opened the bag and the 600 men formed in the clouds storming (pun not intended) out of the bag and all punching Poseidon down. In my opinion that’s how it should’ve went
Barbra Wangui (the voice of Calypso) will pull at your heartstrings, but don't let the talent of the voice actress overshadow the facts. Calypso is an abuser and what she shared with Odysseus was a trauma bond at best. She's an immortal wasting HIS time. Those seven years is time hell never get back. it's time he could've been spending with his wife and son. She kept him prisoner and abused and manipulated him, there's a power imbalance that will never make the Ody a concenting participant in anything they did.
We love Barbara Wangui. But when I find you, Calypso
There actually is a motif in six hundred strike that shows that the wind bag was opened. It’s subtle, but at the beginning, there is the aolus motif of wind pipe instruments, and the floaty vocals. Subtle, but still it’s there.
Look, I think we can all agree that Calypso’s backstory is sad. However, that DOES NOT justify what she did to Ody.
Her song is not a full apology. Using “if” in: “IF I pushed you” “IF I came on to strong” IF I ambushed you”, this is her minimizing what she did. And she may admit fault to those things but then she essentially cancels that out with her next words: “and IF you hate me, THEN I am sorry my love’s too much for you.” This is putting all the blame on the Ody and instead making herself the victim. This is not how you apologize, it is essentially “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
“I’m not sorry for loving you” she is telling him she would do it again.
Next she tried to justify.
“But when you washed ashore, I thought for sure that you were my dream come true. I thought I knew.” The FIRST WORDS Ody tells her when he woke up was that he’s married! But she IGNORES THAT.
“Soon into bed we’ll climb and spend our time.”
“I’M NOT YOUR MAN.”
“I’m no pet, I’M A MARRIED MAN!”
“You’re mine. All mine.”
She fell in love with a married man who just wanted to get back to his wife and family. That’s on her.
She also uses the words of his loved ones against him.
“I know your life’s been hard. I’LL STAY INSIDE YOUR HEART.” Ody’s mom.
“Please stay away from harm. STAY IN MY OPEN ARMS.” Polites.
I get that she has been alone for 100 years and was lonely, but she forced herself onto Ody when he didn’t want it. And she forced him for SEVEN YEARS.
Only when he’s being taken away from her does she “apologize” because she’s trying to manipulate him into staying.
“I’m angry and tired and restless and sad.” What do you think Ody has been feeling all this time??
“I love you”
“You do?” She thought she’d won and he was staying.
“But not in the way that you want me to.
“I hate that I feel in love with you!” He’s not staying and now she’s lashing out.
“Why did I fall in love with you!”
“What do I do with this love for you?”
“How am I supposed to get over you?”
“Why in the world won’t her love me to?”
Lastly, Ody has no obligations to comfort his abuser. He was forced into a physical relationship he didn’t want for years and so when he is free, it is not his responsibility to make sure that Calypso is ok. She brought this upon herself.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Get In the Water feels like it was MADE for Brian Johnson (ACDC's singer).
This calypso is i think being genuine, but the problem is shes still being abusive, too. "I'm sorry my love is too much for you" is like.. ACTUALLY a classic abuser line. Like "you couldve been happy if YOU could love me just as much as i love you." Shes blaming HIM for how he took being imprisoned on her island BY HER
You can really only believe that if you ignore every other line of the song though
@markjack9772 nah, the problem is that the abuser isn't always AWARE that they're being abusive. I fully believe that Calypso absolutely loves Odysseus, but because of her past, the way she's going about loving him is emotionally abusive. It's important to remember she kept him prisoner on her island for 7 years, said his feelings were only negative because he couldn't handle her love, and continued to try to pressure him into loving her via guilt and Stockholm syndrome.
So for the six hundred strikes the humming is implying that it's the wind bag and its calling to Odysseus
So I'm 100% convinced that Athena is recovering right now and that's why Hermes was being sly about his implications. I feel like he would have been upset if Athena had actually died.
There is always a lot of discourse on what is canon or a valid interpretation. I just want to say that, as it always is with art, any message and meaning is found in the audience as much as it might be communicated from the artist. Yes, Jorge had his thoughts and maybe an intended message. It is always received through the audiences' filters, experiences, interpretations, and understanding so there is no right or wrong interpretation or understanding of art. There is just the one (or ones) that resonates and makes sense with each individual or group who might come to a consensus.
One of the most beautiful things about art is the way it speaks to everyone where they are, as we change and grow, we may find new meanings as we experience it anew.
in this version they make calypso more sympathetic but in Greek mytho she is horrible and irredeemable
Ah, ok cause ain’t no way.
Nah calypso isnt that evil or that good in greek mythology shes both shades of good and evil ofc she fought in the titanomachy coz atlas was her dad and he was the general of the titans
@@DivinElrickAgnelYeah no, r-wording someone who seems pretty horrible to me
@@EchoedR Depends on the version, in some versions it wasn't "r-word" and was consensual. In Hesiod's version of Calypso, she had 2 sons with Odysseus and it's not implied that it was "r-word", in some versions they even get married.
@@kryzzan7039 Giving the fact that Epic adapts the Odyssey (not saying the events in the odyssey are the same as in epic, they clearly aren't) I'm more partial to looking at that version, as it's also one of the earliest (or the earliest of this scenario since I don't think Hesiod’s version comes before). Oldest tellings/most notable tellings tend to be more telling to me when it comes to Greek stories
The voice of Telemachus is named Miguel! He’s an artist from Toronto, he used to be friends with my fiancé too! (She even helped make one of his outfits for one of his first concerts)
So the music does imply that the wind bag is involved because you can hear the same motif that is from keep your friends close that is commonly associated with the windbag. He mentions a lot in his music that he likes to carry these motifs throughout his music to kind of hint at when there’s God’s watching or involved
27:18 I've got to say I love the immediate thousand yard stare when she said I'm sorry my love is too much for you, those eyes said the exact same thing I was kind of thinking, at least something along the same lines, I told this joke before but she can just take this apology video, toss it into a flaming dumpster,nuke the dumpster, and then snort the ashes, because it's no longer going to do her any good, that phrase is so much tied to manipulation that you aren't going to get much sympathy after you say something like that.
I'm so excited for this as it's a crime how you make us wait 2 months for the wisdom saga re-reaction. I find it really interesting how Oddy finally able to get to his island after he's alone. Ngl, Eurolychus and others is a dead weight man except Polites
There is an audio cue from Keep Your Friends Close that plays when he looks over at the bag.
I really appreciate that you heard you made some errors and are going back! humble king.
Watched the whole thing because I LOVE seeing your reactions, Dave!!! Can’t wait for the next one!
Thank you very much for that! ❤️
Fun Fact: In some sayings Odysseus is a great grandson of Hermes
Quick reminder that 550/600 of Odysseus’s men died to Poseidon, we know this because when Poseidon said “43 left under your command” that all but 43 died but when he went to the underworld it was “558 men who died under your command” which 558+43 is 601 so there was 1 who died at Circe’s (Elpenor who drank wine and fell off the roof and snapped his neck) and then out of the 42 left 6 died to Scylla and 35 died to Zeus leaving just Odysseus, and based on the number of club strikes in Survive 7 died to Polyphemus which means EVERYONE ELSE DIED TO POSEIDON which is why he said “Almost all of whom were slaughtered by your hand” because 11/12ths of his crew died to Poseidon
She genuinely thought she’d am be able to convince him to stay if she guilted him enough. Whether she was consciously aware that that’s what she was doing is debatable, but the end result is the same.
Tbh, i think "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" is a mixed bag.
Calypso is a tragic figure, and i think this version is aware she f-ed up Odysseus's life, but she is also desperate.
She is manipulating through song (in the myths, she also sings to hypnotize Odysseus), AND genuine regret.
It is all shd really knows, and she is fighting with herself not to try to control Odysseus again.
But Odysseus is done. He completely sees through the song, and kno was s the best thing for him AND her is to leave as quickly as possible, now that he can for a brief moment.
She is a narcissist, but not an evil one. She is a Titan that is severely limited, and clinging on to anythinv she possibly could.
There is a snippet of Aeolus’ motif in the opening of 600 Strike. That’s the audio cue to let you know he opened the bag. It’s a minor detail, but it’s there.
I just finished your Ren reaction videos and was so hype to find that you also reacted to epic the musical hahs
Based off the music and the 600 men singing I feel his power to beat Poseidon came from the 600 men or even the 600 men in ghost form gave him the 600 strikes. The vocals from the 600 men implies they are there with him
44:53 I think we all collectively had the same exact response when we first heard this. Literally mind altering stuff there from Jorge. Great reaction!
Also he’s able to hurt Posideon because he’s using Posideon’s trident is a god weapon
You should react to the wisdom saga animatics in full especially Neal illustrators God games animatic
I personally think Aclypso was genuine with her words, and her apologies. But the thing is, she never actually apologizes for hurting Odysseus.
(In the musical we can't really know, but it's pretty clear in the stories she constantly forced herself upon Ody in any way she seemed fit, sexually too. In the Musical we only see that he is clearly struggling while he is trapped there, but what is actually happening is left unsaid).
Aclypso apologies that Odysseus can't "handle her love", not that she was being cruel to him.
Love your reactions:)
46:32 Poseidon did literally flat out say that Ody opened the wind bag to defeat him, but I listened to just the audio originally and I too was thrown off by the brief moment of instrumentals with no visuals. However Jorge also did this in Done For where we’re just supposed to assume Circe and Ody summon a Cyclops and Chimera to fight their battles, or how the lyrics in Scylla don’t describe how Eurylacus was not eaten, or how the lyrics of Different Beast don’t mention the surviving Sirens that Athena references in God Games, or even describe what the gods are physically doing in God Games or if Zeus had sympathy for his daughters near death at his hands. There’s even some reactors who weren’t sure after first viewing if Ody killed the infant in just a man. There’s definitely a lot of visual storytelling in this musical compared to others where they really only have music breaks for dancing or generic fighting so I get it. That’s why I’m glad the animatics and animations are available to help show what’s going on
At the very beggining of 600 strike.
The song cues are:
You hear aeoulus vocals => the bag, the oooooh's
You hear the rock gituar + ody's theme => about Ody + him being cunning
The choir => singing the danger theme.
Later when he's attacking you hear the backing of the crew, something really only Ody, but more specfically Eury got. But their all dead, so is it the memory of them or their ghosts pushing him on, but something is going on there fyi
Then before he attacks poisden you hear different beast(Ody going into his monster self, and it being shown outwardly)
Then you hear all the motifs when he's stabbing posiden, which is like monster, ruthlessness, and I think part of the stuff when he got the infant(not sure about it).
I do think it's because of his relation to Hermes being his many great grandfather. People forget this but he's like got some god blood. A little.
a little godblood a little divine intervention and a little bit of just being done with Posidens shit.
Is no one going to talk about the tiny Jorge screen on the side of the vid? He's just vibing over there
I’m pretty sure it was goddess Ino or Ares, Ares because Athena did promise bloodshed when he got home and he wouldn’t get that bloodshed if odyssey didn’t get home, Odysseus eyes turned red like ares are and then there’s also the fact Athena is his sister and they are both gods of war, he’s on the brute side while Athena is all about strategy, they have pretty intense sibling rivalry but I’d imagine they both get curious on why they do certain things they themselves wouldn’t like how Athena is fighting for odyssey and his son and he doesn’t get the “appeal” so it could be likely he was just curious and wanted to see how odyssey would fight poseidon.
As for goddess Ino, in the original she saved Odysseus by giving him her cloak or something like a cloak to hide him from poseidon, but it was only to hide and not fight and the entire timeline in Greek mythology is all over the place so I was never able to tell at what specific point did specific gods or deities help odyssey.
She’s also not a well known god either, the odyssey was the only place I’ve seen her mentioned, she’s a sea goddess but she was human, she was a queen and I think her husband went crazy or something and she jumped off a cliff into the sea with her son, but Aphrodite is her grandmother so she asked poseidon to save them and he turned her into a goddess.
I bring her up as one of the possibilities because of the original stories but it would be wild if she betrayed poseidon that massively in this version, she’d have some balls of steel to betray the one who turned her into a god.
Ares however, there no reason I could think of as to why he wouldn’t or why it wouldn’t make sense but it just fits so well it almost feels impossible for it to not be the case, well at least for me I’m not sure about others.
Just a wee fan theory I like which may help explain how he was able to beat Poseidon. The glowing red eyes of Ody is because he was getting some sort of boost from Ares, after what happened to Athena I'm god games. I het it's not likely I just like the idea of it, otherwise it just seems no plausible.
Maybe he becomes a god or something haha. Dude went toe to toe with fearsome foes and survived, I’d say he’s earned godhood.
@@whatitdodave He's already a demigod, a grandson of Hermes, so maybe his latent divinity awakened at that moment
@@baronnexus8524 i dont think hes a grandson to say hes a great great great great grandson i think
I also have a small theory. I think using his Shatter the Ocean made Poseidon weaker because it drained some of his power, thus Odysseus was able to beat him
So there actually is an implication in the music that Odysseus opened the wind bag! It's just kind of subtle, with Aeolus' wind pipes playing in the background when it gets opened. It's not like super explicit but the hint is there
This is so fun! I love Epic.
May I suggest reacting to the new Cult Of The Lamb official metal album? It's so good-