Great video dude! Miss you! The iOS vs Android thing was mindblowing, so interesting! Being a Pro Tools moron, anecdotally, my experience is that Pro Tools has run better on PC for me. A couple VSTi would sometimes max out my 2017 macbook pro. I'm pretty sure that's due to Avid and not the core systems though, but Pro Tools is still the dominant program in the music industry as a whole so how it performs does hold weight. I'm sure there's people out there with the opposite experience though. I wish I would have taken the plunge to Logic or Ableton at some point but now I have too much muscle memory for this program haha.
I have access to Pro Tools from the MIDI keyboard I bought, plus Ableton Live Lite. I tried it a little, but later I hopped to Pop!_OS with jack + Ardour, and it has been working just fine. If I'm ever going to have a Mac I might revisit Pro Tools.
ProTools moron here as well. Avid have that rare gift of pissing off both Mac and PC users equally. Not that Digidesign wasn't already skilled at that :D
Not that mind-blowing. It's not even per-se the hardware that is "optimized" it's that android uses a giant layer of java muck in between the hardware and the software which just slows everything down. iOS is able to run more directly on the hardware (no virtual machine) so you get lower latencies. In all honestly I hate both of these and I can't wait for maemo-leste to be fully functional on my droid4.
anecdotally, a huge part of apple vs. android/pc ethos comes down to the end-user vs. diy mentality. growing up with home-built PCs (my dad works in the IT industry), i’m used to being able to start from scratch (slapping OEM windows on a freshly built machine, no bloatware) and fixing whatever problems arise. With mac, none of that is an option. You *can* try and fix things in a basic level, but my biggest frustrations with Apple have been simply having to wait for someone else to fix a problem that was forced on me with a bad update, etc. “It just works...” except when it doesn’t. Trusting some kid at the Apple store takes getting used to after being able to fix most problems myself.
You’re also stuck troubleshooting and diagnosing yourself. My custom built PC started crashing and I wasted three days trying to figure it out - in that time I could have had a replacement Mac and been back to work.
I get what youre saying, but if youre having some sort of a problem with iOs because of a bad update, Im pretty sure its not "kids at the apple store" who are fixing these issues...
@@pedrosilvaproductions It matters loads if you're on mobile, Android has horrendously limited options for music production because there's no standardized audio architecture. Almost everything is incompatible with Androids as a whole because there's no reasonable solution to potentially massive latency. I had to search high and low for an Android-compatible mobile interface so I could integrate a particular app into my live guitar work.
Mac vs. PC for music production cannot be separated from your DAW of choice. Some would work better on a Mac some on Windows, for some there's no difference, and some are Mac or Windows only. In the end, this is not something you can discuss in abstract in 2021.
I agree, there's so much tied to specifically what you're doing or using that you can't just talk about big picture "mac v PC" without being somewhat disingenuous. Also "Macs don't have forced updates like PCs" seems like a strong point, but you can stop auto updates and I think for me a bigger point would be "Updating your mac can literally stop the software you have from working because of Apple's increasingly hostile stances against developers". To me there is no OS which is "The One" for music production, they've all got pluses and minuses but I see far too many unwilling to admit to the minuses on mac's end besides the price.
That was my thought, too. I've seen a lot of composers saying they have to use Mac because they want to use Logic Pro, and that's the end of the discussion. All the other considerations become irrelevant.
I use both with very robust machines and mac wins on stability, durability and easy to use. If I want to play games or edit videos, windows for sure. I’m a hardcore user and I have no preference in my heart, but to me is more about “you pay is what you get.” I also use Android and IOS on a daily basis. IOS wins for music production because you can do so so so so much more than Android. My heart still can’t let go of the Android, but its not a fair comparison... IOS is years ahead for music production.
Yes, but besides the DAW you also have to take into consideration the Audio Interfaces and Protocols... Most Audio Interfaces are compatible with Mac and plus almost all Macs have Thunderbolt, Core Audio, MIDI and Audio over network out of the box. With Windows you gotta download the proper Midi and ASIO drivers, only a few PC's have Thunderbolt and no Audio over network. So it would be logical for any developer to focus on those things as there's less fragmentation in terms of hardware.
Now here’s what boggles me: Apple has the tablet/phone market cornered, yet they change music hardware compatibility protocols with every OS!!! A pissed off captive audience is not a good business model!
All fair points, of course they are a massively successful company so something is working. It just seems like that framework is bound fail eventually when a competitor presents a better option.
That’s just not true. Also, Apple is one of the slowest companies to change their hardware IO. The lightning port is only the 2nd gen iOS input...it’s been there for like 12 years now.
@@magicmark3309 Sure the port is the same, but have you ever seen the infamous "this device is not supported" message? It'll plug in but it might not do much else...
As an Android fan and IT geek (it's literally my job), when it comes to mobile devices this is a pretty fair take. I could be really pedantic about a couple of minor details, but honestly it's stuff that just doesn't matter enough. I wish Android was better for music than it is, but it just isn't. If you're talking actual computers/laptops, again it's literally my job to support both OS's, there's basically no difference. Personal preference is a bigger consideration than any other factor right now. Apple's new chipset may change that in the future. Whichever you want to use, it's a good time to be making music on a computer.
the nice thing is that the new m1 macbook air can handle production and is only $1000, which really isn’t TOO much more than a pc that’s powerful enough to do heavy audio editing. is that a great price? absolutely not. but it is a massive improvement over the $2000-$3000 it used to cost for a capable mac
I used to use cobbled together pc’s for the beginnings of my audio career. Eventually gave in and bought a second hand MacBook Pro for $300au upgraded the ram and hard drive and never looked back.
@@ianfridlington1047 I am creating tutorials just for that purpose! Right now I'm preparing one about doing vocal pitch correction using free (and open-source) software. I'm showing plugins and teaching Ardour - my FOSS / Linux DAW of choice.
It's Unfa! I love your Linux music videos! I've got a couple tutorials for LMMS up on my channel, and I'm planning even more Linux audio tutorials down the line. If Unfa doesn't have what you need, I'll do what I can to fill in!
This may be a niche community in the industry... but a lot of people who are actually regularly throwing heavy workloads (unthinkable for a laptop) at their audio workstation will use windows because of the bottom line: you can get beefier hardware than Apple will ever sell you if you custom build.
@@mikelucamusic That's a fair point, but you should always keep in mind the price-performance ratio. And PC just COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY annihilates Mac on that front.
@@mikelucamusic those specs for... how much...? 50k? no matter if you can afford it (people requiring those specs are most likely to be able to afford it) but the price is ridiculous, chances are you are getting a better Custom Build with that budget.
@@yona9798 price only makes so much difference if the prospect is a tangibly more suitable system. My custom PC blows my MacBook Air out of the water in most areas, especially price, but I’d still rather by another Air for music work if it breaks.
For me Logic Pro X is such a good deal for music production. $200 for all the plugins, virtual instruments, samples, etc that one could ever need. Native ability to use iPhone or iPad as remote control. It's only after switching back to using Windows and messing around with Cakewalk, another fantastic deal, that I really miss some of the Logic Pro creature comforts. For me this is the main advantage of Apple for music. Also, my Surface Book 2 has crashed many times even though it is Microsoft hardware and should supposedly be more stable. My Macbook Air 2015 has never crashed as far as I can remember. Definitely not while making music.
Your mistake was buying a surface. But for hardware compatibility apple is best. Not because they're neccasarily a better deal or even good components. It's just everything is built to work with them for audio
@@Jellyman good reply. They are optimized to work with macs better, however I don’t like my cpu tools mounted so I can’t really justify macs, seeing as I have the ability to upgrade my own ram and my own hard drive. I’m not against using macs I just can’t digest that hustle of mounted cpu components, it’s quite disgusting to me and while I can use AppleCare until they start giving out loaners I’m gone swipe to the windows side. 12-27-22
Overall, I think this is a great video, but the stability thing seems strictly biased. Maybe out of the box, macs won’t update out of nowhere, but you can change the settings to do the same in windows. If pc’s weren’t stable, esports wouldn’t be an industry. I know that has nothing to do with music, but both a concert and a gaming competition are in-person performances with a lot of money at stake. Esports players have to trust the hardware they are using. And many other industries trust windows/pc’s perfectly fine. The virus/stability arguments are just propaganda at this point. By the way I like Apple and own many of their products. It’s just their computer front is overhyped in my opinion
I think windows 10 has narrowed the gap with Mac in terms of stability. I’ve had an MSI gaming laptop for 3 years and absolutely pushed it to its limits with games and music production. It’s been very stable for me. As someone who likes to play video games and make music, a PC is the only way.
@@StephanAinley Yea, you can turn that off in the settings, just like a Mac, it was just an internet joke that it auto updates itself for no reason. It also asks after downloading updates (if you turned on auto update) whether you want to install it now or postpone the install, if you turned the auto update off, you have to manually go into settings and search for updates
@@beyondwaveforms3059 lol, how can you do that? as far as im concerned the setting switches on again automatically after at most 30 days. i would be keen to hear
What if i told you that you can partition your mac's hard drive to run Windows on it for gaming? With a mac you can do audio on OSX and play on Windows, as well as being able to run plugins that are only available for one of the two systems (for example image-line plugins, which a lot of people will be familiar with) Not to invalidate what you just said about the narrower gap, but pc isn't the ONLY way. Bonus: mac's displays are insanely good for gaming, even tho you don't get the 144hz refresh rate that lower resolutions monitors can achieve
@@daibaandtheghostmachine8952 andrew said in the reveal that it will come out on android but it's going to take time. there's a reason why a lot of new apps come to iOS first.
Great video - I use a mixture of iOS, Android, Mac, and PC for various tasks and agree Apple still really shines for Audio production... But I would also add it's worth watching Louis Rossman's videos particularly about the new M1 macbooks. The fact Apple have started soldering the SSD to the logic board while also using it for additional cache space when all RAM is in use will very likely reduce the lifespan of these premium machines, or at the very least mean a costly repair bill after a couple of years. Apple love to talk a big game on the environment but they also like to push people to shorten their upgrade cycles. There are pros and cons to each platform, and remember at the end of the day you can make music with pretty much whatever you have :)
I wish more mainstream manufacturers and software embraced Linux, I want to enter my local PC store and _see_ Ubuntu (or some other OS) installed and running on display.
If Ableton Live, Hitfilm, Arturia's V Collection, Komplete, and Puremagnetik's plugins ran on Linux, I'd totally be interested in getting a dedicated Linux music production machine. The other big problem is games. I have a backlog so big that I don't buy games anymore, and despite that I still have more games than I'll ever be able to finish in my lifetime lol. Losing all that would suck.
@@mikeexits To be fair, most things run on Linux these days, and if they don't it's not an issue caused by the Linux community but rather a lack of interest to support the platform from certain companies. For music production/sound design, UNFA (look him up here on youtube) seems to be doing just fine at a professional level with only Linux/FOSS. And the same goes for games. I'm on Manjaro Linux and I'm having no issues playing anything from Valheim and Hades to Overwatch. The major obstacle that seems to be left for gaming on Linux is the combination of no Linux support and EasyAntiCheat, since from what I understand, running a game through wine doesn't play well with EAC. Again, that's not an issue caused by Linux though.
@SArpnt Cool. I'd say the gaming is more of a secondary concern though; the plugins I've invested in are a lot more important to me. That and Ableton Live is my dream DAW haha. Would be nice to see it and more plugins be made for Linux distribution though.
Yep. Like the argument about stability. It's users problem to maintaint it. Mac is just for lazy people or artists who doesn't know how his OS works and how to maintain stability (windows for sure needs engineers hand)
@@B4BOL I mean by saying that would mean macs have advantage as people want to pay for a product that works. That's not the fundemantal issue with apple products. Yes its streamlined but that totally doesn't make people lazy, you have to put the effort in to output content.
About the statement Andrew made. He said that maybe a Mac will cost twice as much and will have the exact same specs with a PC, but it runs comfortably for twice as much as PCs do, so the value of a Mac is the same with the PC. My thought is, well, if I have to spend 1000$ to buy a good PC and use it for 5 years, or 2000$ for a Mac and use it for 10 years, I will still spend my 1000$ for the PC, and "keep" the other 1000$ to buy a PC with newer and better specs after 5 years. This sounds like a good deal for me.
That's how I am. After being desktop-only, once my desktop stopped booting up after nearly a decade of use, I got a Lenovo Y720 for around $700 and it's perfect for my needs. Even has a built in little subwoofer and decent speakers for low to midrange Bluetooth speaker quality audio without needing external speamers. It's a powerful rig for music creation, video editing, and gaming that I can take anywhere with me. I couldn't be happier (well, except for when I fried my motherboard while upgrading the hard drive and had to buy a whole new laptop; always prevent static discharge when working with exposed circuit boards guys, don't be like me).
@@Reliquancy I think my problem was that I forgot to unplug the battery, and unplugged it in the middle of working when I realized; when I plugged it back in I saw a spark, and then suddenly my fans wouldn't turn on, HDMI and headphone ports didn't work, keyboard backlight wouldn't turn on, and my SATA hard drive port stopped working. I think the built in speakers stopped working too. Lenovo support had me on hold for an hour, only to tell me they wouldn't repair it without a warranty (I bought it used), even though I was willing to pay for it. It was a nightmare. I actually made the same mistake when I was upgrading my 2nd one (despite promising to myself that I would unplug the battery before doing anything else), but this time I didn't unplug it as soon as I realized it. I left it plugged in the whole time. Everything still worked after that, so thank god for that haha.
@@mikeexits Oh, i did phrase it wrong. What i meant was that people should have a better knowledge of the OS(Win/Mac) and DAW they already have before considering making a switch. And if a switch were to occur, may it be for your own benefit. At least that's how I see it.
Some of your points are good, but a mac that is more expensive for the same specs as a PC will not last twice as long since you can upgrade the PC down the line, so the mac will become outdated far sooner and cost you even more money to buy an entirely new computer.
I disagree. My mac has been going for 8 years now, and every windows computer I had died after 2, so even though this cost twice as much, I saved three times the price of any windows.
In my opinion. Whatever you can work with, is the best for any job... It’s not specifically ‘which’ tools, it’s whatever lets you get the job done. I use everything and anything.
I 100% agree. I used iMacs in Elementary school, PCs in Middle and High school, and Macs again in college for my major. I'm just more comfortable with PC.
I think in Mac vs PC you have to consider how Core Audio performs against ASIO drivers too. My sense is that Core Audio can usually deliver lower latency with the same audio interface. If anybody knows that this is or isn’t true, love to hear it.
Not true at all. CoreAudio was the defacto go-to forever and ASIO was a joke until about 2012, when I saw an enormous boon and ASIO actually began taking their programming seriously. Currently, I can run full sessions in my DAW at 48KHz, with ASIO set to a buffer size of 64 samples with NO underruns. I'd like to see you accomplish this feat on CoreAudio.
I think your Mac/PC comparison is based on some obsolete data. I personally use Windows since 6 years for live shows running live keys and backing tracks. So I know the highs and lows very well 😋 I have never had a single virus in my life. And I don't use a virus scanner except for integrated security that ist part of Windows 10. Studies have shown that Windows is very secure without needing a third-party virus program. The biggest loop hole has always been and is still the user himself. I don't understand why people still complain about updates on Windows. The update management has been no problem since Windows 10 arrived. You can set active hours when no updates should be made. And even if an update after a reboot occurs, it takes under a minute in 99 % of the times. And whenever updates require a reboot, you get well informed in your current Windows session beforehand. Stabilitywise, yes, Macs are a little bit better. I have a MacBook as second device. It isn't perfectly stable but still is a little bit better. I think the stability of your machine depends heavily on how you manage your live set, your files and peripherals. Only a little bit on your platform. You should use your computer for music stuff only If you use it for the stage. The only thing that ist important to consider at the moment when deciding between Windows and Mac is M1. Windows world is working on it but has no answer yet. And to be fair, Microsoft sells their own laptop lineup where they control software and hardware. The Surface devices are very capable and solid.
i would always go with a windows rig no matter what. the price of a apple product is terrible so is repairs and pricing of those. even if stuff breaks you can still sell a pc product for pretty good money little bit harder with macbooks since people will try haggle you to death to make a good buck. windows is as stable as macbook. i will not argue for live performances though i have tried playing 2 times only live with a old lenovo laptop no problem just turn off windows updates and stay off the internet.
@@fredeatstheworld308 if you think you're being ripped off by buying an apple product then you don't have that enoigh money to get rid of that feeling. In short, you are not as wealthy as these guys.
In the early 2000's, some people in the audio tech world (e.g. Waves) were open about the need for the industry to free themselves of being controlled by Apple and Microsoft. Linux was waiting in the wings, and now in 2021, there are lots of high end audio gear that runs Linux internally. But ... everyone's desire to use their regular laptop/desktop phone for their music production work largely prevented it from being similarly adopted in more front-end stuff. End-users could have been working on machines specifically built for music, with no compromises. But instead they're all still stuck on operating systems and hardware platforms that are an endless series of compromises when it comes to this goal. Meanwhile, I'll keep writing software that works on all 3 non-mobile OS's (Linux, Windows, macOS) and users can decide for themselves.
Not true - Linux for desktop simply won't establish itself in probably the next decade as it is too technical to use for most users - or too dumbed down for proper professional use. And also its hard to go against the established.
@@nolram you can't cite any evidence for this at all. It's just anecdotal impressions. I've been working on Linux since 1995, and neither of the things you've said here about the platform are true. What is true is that nobody wanted to buy a new system when they were told they could do music on their existing Windows/macOS systems, and so none of the companies involved were willing to go down that path. Needless to say, you now have mixing consoles, devices like the NI Maschine, Ableton Push, network audio processing systems like Waves Soundgrid, all running Linux internally, but essentially none of those companies have Linux in a user-facing sense. The industry could have said in (say) 2000 "nope, these general purpose OS's are the wrong platform for us, if you want to use our software you need to buy a BlahBlahBox(TM)". But nobody had the guts for that, even though in many senses it was true.
@@nolram "too technical to use for most users" Right. Most users use only browser - and Linux is more then capable of that Music producers are technical people - and installing everything requires knowledge and fiddeling on every OS. And it's not even hard to install stuff
@@die_lokki287 I didn't mean that - for most users Linux won't establish simply because noone else they know is using it, and I HIGHLY doubt most music producers are technical enough to work with Linux as their daily driver. For the UI-focused generation this is Linux is just... Not there yet. Installing things via, for example, APT is great of course - but still a bit too technical for most users that aren't developers, sysadmins (and similar) or just quite technical when it comes to that stuff.
Excellent video! Despite 100% being a Windows person, I've also hackintosh'd my machine, and I'm amazed to see so much of my music hardware and software just run so much faster and more smoothly on OS X -- even when not running on an Apple machine! That said, I do want to point out one somewhat important difference between the platforms that falls squarely in Windows's favor: backwards and forwards compatibility. A relative of mine is a professional music producer and, of course, uses a Mac, and I also have a roommate that uses a Mac Mini for iOS development -- and a common complaint I hear from both has to do with OS versioning. Software on OS X always targets specific versions of the operating system, due to frequent changing of APIs and feature support. It's a typical scenario on OS X to see a new version release, but needing to wait months or longer for developers to confirm/update their apps to run properly on the new OS X version. We see these issues crop up repeatedly -- 32-bit executables becoming unsupported; signing/notarizing of apps becoming required; and eventually phasing out of x86_64 emulation on Apple's new ARM devices. (Those are the big ones, but each release causes some varying amount of incompatibility on Mac OS.) This requires app developers to take positive action to update apps... and if the developer is no longer around or the software is no longer supported, you might be stuck between not updating your OS, or losing access to your applications. Microsoft, on the other hand, pays close attention to backwards and forwards compatibility. Being focused on enterprise scenarios, they need to be able to assure large companies that the internal software they were running 20 years ago will still run just fine today on modern Windows 10 machines. Even drivers -- a friend was trying to set up an ancient MIDI keyboard/audio interface combo with some fancy amp emulation features processed through the driver, for which some software was last released for Windows 7... and once he got all the correct bits of software installed, it just worked. Any time my Windows machine updates, I never have to think twice about whether my programs and hardware will continue working -- including, for example, my copy of Adobe Creative Suite CS5.5 that I bought ten years ago. But if I was on a Mac, I would never be able to move past Mojave, as Catalina removed support for 32-bit apps (CS5.5, except for Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Photoshop, is 32-bit only). This is almost certainly not a huge concern for folks who make a living from their creative pursuits, as these folks would probably just consider software upgrades part of the cost of doing business. But for others, that can be a real hassle and a source of unexpected frustration, entirely at the whims of Apple's and third party developers' decisions to deprecate and remove, or continue to support, functionality and software. Choosing between the OS's is a complicated decision! This is just another wrinkle in the story ;)
The thing I like about windows is that I can be playing doom eternal, Tab out of the game, load up Ableton, and play along to the soundtrack with as many effects as I want and I don't get performance drops in either program.
@@wang2194 I got a Asus Strix Z370-f motherboard, Intel i7 8700k CPU, 32 gigs of corsair ram and a GTX 1060. I boot from a Samsung NVMe 960 Evo (highly recommended, they load every sample/ softsynth preset instantly) and I just installed steam and any games on The cheapest Western Digital mechanical hard drive I could find.
@Piyath Who said i was? I just like making music because it's fun. Idk why playing a videogame would disqualify someone from being a musician tho cuz Mr. Bill plays counterstrike and he collaborates with andrew lol
Yes, Linux is still a much better option than Windows for better latency. ASIO fixes quite a bit in Windows, but other OSes don't need such 3rd party fixes. It's still funny to see Mac/Linux users ask where ASIO drivers are for their computers, though. ;-)
I really want to use Linux as someone who values privacy, but I've invested too much in plugins and software that won't all run on Linux (Ableton Suite, Hitfilm Pro, Arturia V Collection, NI Komplete, tons of Puremagnetik plugins, etc.)
I've used a pc for most of the years I've been making music and decided to get a second hand macbook pro 2 years ago and it has been the single best computer for making music. I never want to go back to a pc. Even a little thing like installing a plugin is just so easy. On windows I had to install it into the right folder, then open my daw, rescan it, find out why it isn't showing up, juggle the files between folders and troubleshoot for a while until I finally got it set up. That didn't happen always, but when it did, it was really annoying. On the other hand when installing a plugin on a mac, it's just installing in, opening my daw, refreshing the plugin list and it's all good to go
i think its worth noting that the version(s) of android that come preloaded on most smartphones are bloated and locked down as hell. android itself is pretty okay for audio (with the right software), but the companies that make phones are... terrible.
Glad to read that. Things are changing also, as Google is putting more and more pressure on OEMs so they deliver first class audio experiences on Android devices. By the way, we make a music making app for Android, if you want to check it out, here is the link: meteaurestudios.github.io
Just to quote "if the product is twice the expense and lasts double as long the value is the same" I really had a hard time understanding this.. yes you get more lifetime for your money. But if I buy the same specs on another device that lasts me half as long and then another. The specs of the second device would be more up to date than the device that lasts twice as long.. idk how I feel about this statement.. can someone share their opinion about this?
the problem is you're not defining "lasts" in the quote. if the product that is twice as expensive "lasts twice as long", that would imply that the specs at purchase are adequate/equal to those of the second device in the other scenario. in the case of a Mac/iOS vs PC/Android, a lot of the time that tends to be true. on paper, a lot of Android devices have better specs than older iOS devices, but the level of control that Apple has on the utilization of device resources means they still tend to run better when it comes to actual use.
Pro is newer device would be up to spec with more recent standards. Con is the amount of time you have to spend setting up the newer device, reinstalling software/plugins & migrating data.
my personal nitpick with the value section is the massive amount of options in the android market means last years flagships have huge discounts, and there's a lot of bargains to be grabbed
The quote is true for phones/tablet because iPhone from 6 years ago still gets the latest software update like the latest iPhone..if we’re talking computers there’s a few more factors
I’m not sure about this either. Tech isn’t upgraded as often as usual with PC. And even then, if something goes wrong, it’s easier to fix than Mac. Mobile, all phones are pretty similar for upgrade and repair frequencies.
As far as build quality goes and components that go into the machine though you're quite off. Yes, some PCs have absolutely junk quality, and some are made even better than Apple computers (look at the Dell XPS range for instance), so that's not really a Mac vs PC issue, it's a Mac vs other specific manufacturers. As far as components go a Mac is also absolutely filled with third party components. It's a bit of a stretch to claim that Apple makes all the components that go into their computers. They contract, just like most manufacturers, with third party component manufacturers for parts to populate their boards and machines. I'm not a PC fanboy, nor am I a Mac fanboy. I absolutely abhor OSX, I think it's among the worst user interfaces I've worked on, and goes out of its way to hide essential things from the user. I am a designer, I have worked in user experience, and it really feels like Apple have stagnated when it comes to design development over the last few years. With Jony Ive leaving Apple I hope that maybe there will be a revitalization within Apple and they'll step up their game again. In the meanwhile other manufacturers have immensely stepped up their hardware game, and Microsoft have put in a lot of work into Windows 10 to actually streamline it and shake off the idea that PCs are complex and harder to use, while still being ever so powerful and easy to customize under the hood. Every system has its issues, it's about picking and choosing from what things you can and cannot live with. 🙂
Yes and Apple is not that cool as Andrew says about durability. For example they reduce the CPU cooling in order to reduce its max speed and lifespan. The same CPU in a well ventilated PC can be 20% more efficient than in a MacBook air.
good points, but talking about user interface i think it’s really dependent on personal preference. I cant stand windows and i’m willing to pay even thrice the price just to stay away from it lmao
@@apotheoz9196 I thought exactly the same thing. Not only that, regardless of how long your computer lasts the components will eventually be superseded and become redundant, so why pay massively over the odds for them. I bet in 2012 an i5 3330k with 8gb of RAM and a 500GB hard drive was considered a flying machine 😂
Honestly I have to disagree with a lot of this post: I'll start with UX. As a contrast to being a designer I am a programmer, I've spent my entire professional career using macs (migrating away from windows during education / personal experience) and every time since that I've tried to significant amounts of time into a project on windows I've near enough lost my mind. Using windows feelings messy, laggy, and unresponsive compared to mac os. I do 90% of my window changes/navigation through hotkeys and everything just feels ehh when I do it on windows, whether it be switching applications or windows in applications. It just doesn't work as well. Spotlight search on mac (which I use to launch all my applications) is so much less intrusive than than the windows search menu, and you don't have to deal with clunky animations to use it. There is also (for developers) the huge advantage of mac using unix; but this really only applies to developers so if you don't know what this means you can probably ignore it! I will say the Dell XPS range is pretty good; but in my opinion its one of very few examples of where PC hardware has actually caught up with macs, they finally have really good trackpads (something which macs have had for years, I still chose trackpads over mice for my work), and the built quality is excellent. The one area they did exceed macs (in my opinion) is keyboard, but the new m1 macs have finally migrated back from butterfly switches so that is no longer as big an issue. The XPS line up also pretty much matches macs in price, so it really comes down to OS preference. From a hardware perspective, I'd be just as happy with either. I still have and use a windows laptop as well; I can't say in the last 3 years I've felt there's been any meaningful improvements to the UX, and things like the settings / control panel for windows 10 is still completely unusable both practically and from a user experience / design perspective. I think it's important that people pick what works for them. I'm resistant to mac hate; for me and many professionals (and to be transparent, a lot of us don't pay for the devices we use for work) they provide a much improved experience over what we could achieve on windows (My next port of call as a developer would be Linux). If you're relatively comfortable and happy with your current device, whether it be windows or mac, and a UA-cam video, or comments are swaying you either way, save your money and the environment by trying to make your current device last as long as possible!
@@OllysCoding "I've spent my entire professional career using macs" I've spent like 90% of my professional career using PCs (try finding good CAD software that runs on a Mac), and while you do bring up some good points, I do disagree with many as well. "Messy, laggy, and unresponsive". I couldn't disagree more. It may depend on your system, naturally, but I'm running a four year old Dell XPS with an i7 processor in it for my professional machine (which includes video editing as well, which is one of the more taxing things you can do) and while some software runs slow due to me asking more from the machine than it can provide Windows 10 itself absolutely flies. I rarely have any issues whatsoever with it, and my uptime between reboots are usually counted by the month. Maybe you have had bad luck with your machines, I don't know, but your complaint seems to be more fitting to pre-Windows 10 generations than it is right now. The main issue with the settings in Windows 10, and I willingly own up to hating this, is the division of settings (or sometimes mirroring of settings) between the Control Panel and Settings app. They should simply drop the old remnants of the Windows 8 era and consolidate all of the system central settings into one area instead of obfuscating it all over the place. That is absolutely an issue, but for day to day use for a regular user it's not that big of a deal. Most people aren't going to have to venture into those settings on any regular basis. The Windows search menu is lacking (file search et al, but easily rectified with third party software), however the Start bar search bar is at par with Spotlight search for launching programs. Switching between software, or windows in applications, I don't agree is neither here nor there between Windows and OSX. I regularly work through different programs on a regular basis, across two screens, and using several desktops. Switching in between all of this in Windows 10 has never been easier. As for developers and Macs it completely depends on what you're developing, so I don't really agree with that being that big of an argument either. It's like saying that a bigger shovel is better, when in reality what you're probably wanting is a shovel that's apt for the hole you're digging. A developer should choose which platform is better for them, and depending on what you're working on that could be either PC or Mac...unless of course you're developing iOS apps, then you need a Mac. Heck, back when I was running a Mac I found myself booting up Windows on it simply because OSX couldn't do what I wanted it to do. When it comes to more specialized third party software from smaller developers you're also more likely to find it running Windows than OSX. The XPS line matches the cheaper Macs in price, absolutely, but it's not tit for tat. The hardware you get for the price in the XPS outmatches a similarly priced Mac. You're going to be paying a lot more for the unibody and the little Apple logo than you actually get back in hardware. Granted UX improvements in Windows have somewhat stagnated in the last few years, as there hasn't been any major updates to the platform. However, in contrast UX development in OSX has been stagnant for the last 10+ years, focusing on changing the look rather than working on the actual UX. Innovation in Apple has ground to almost a halt. I think part of this is because in the past Apple was a computer company, which then ventured into phones. Now they're a phone company that also makes computers. When something like 50% of their revenue comes from phones alone it's not so strange that there's where most their effort is going to go, and a small income post like computers will languish in comparison. I don't hate Macs, they fulfil their position in the marketplace. I hate mindless fanboys, I hate people who try to push you down because of some feigned superiority of their platform. We see this from both sides of the divide.
OMG why would you even start this ancient and wildly incorrect flame war again? Seriously, anyone referencing PC or Mac info from more than 5 years ago has ZERO idea wtf they are talking about.
when you're talking about a desktop pc in comparison to macs. pcs will probably last longer because 1. some macs run at their thermal limit 24/7 which could make the parts not last as long 2. in general pcs are way easier to upgrade
My 2011 MBP was running like close to 100 celsius almost all the time and it lasted me for about 8 years (before the GPU died because of some factory error) - I would probably use it to this day if it didn't die. Great piece of hardware - if you clean the dust often enough, you should have no problems with longetivity of the device.
@@alexlubinski7795 That's not due to thermal, that's actually due to a software bug. Believe it or not, you have to reset your Vram/Pram and other stuff sometimes, less Mac OS believe it needs to kick the fans in 100% and overheat for no reasons.
I use Cubase 10 in Windows 10. With intel i9 and 32 gb ram. Really smooth and everyhing just works. No problems at all, running heavy projects and vsts. From my experience, in 2021 you can have a super powerfull pc without having to spend 5k us, and it's rock solid. Again, it's just my experience. Cheers!
Oh, and it’s kind of funny to hear that some people still argue that back in the days no pc was capable, so they still decide to use macs - as if nothing has changed ever since. PCs are more reliable now so it is possible to use them and they are not as expensive.
Or hackintosh, evidently. Should literally be re-titled "Why macOS Is Better For Music(Core Audio)" My hackintosh outperforms a mac pro 2019 and 2/3 the cost and runs the same except sleep. If set up correctly, that's the only thing that may not work which isn't much of an issue for studios. Opencore guides for building a mac using PC parts has gotten much easier and basically idiot proof.
@@JT4GM4K3R except the big one...good thunderbolt support. I almost switched to hackintosh a few times, but the thunderbolt support is a huge issue since I use an Apollo and all my external SSD’s and HD’s are thunderbolt.
@@magicmark3309 [Solved] Gigabyte Designare motherboard as well as GC-Titan Ridge enables thunderbolt on PC hardware. You can even use the Titan ridge on any motherboard by shorting pins 3 and 5 on the internal TB connector. Hackintoshes can use thunderbolt with a generated SSDT. There's plenty of guides. Just google (Thunderbolt hackintosh plug and play)
@@DylanParisMusic that was just one example the popped into my head. If you’re doing any kind of pro audio work you shouldn’t be updating your OS as soon as it comes out
Love my iPad for music production. On the other hand I built a Ryzen 9, 8 core tower with the performance of the $6,000 base cheese grater Mac Pro.2.0 for $1,500.
Windows user here. I'm so used to the workflow so I don't see me using a Mac soon. . . BUT it makes sense that the quality is (supposedly) higher when you limit the customization and choices of a product or available products. So thank you and curse you ❤😂
mm quality also can scale with competition, and you see a whole lot more competition on the android/windows side than you do apple. In the end I feel like it cancels out, as you can get much higher performance out of a windows machine at the expense of a small amount of simplicity
@@F1NG3RS that’s usually just until plug-in manufacturers released updates to ensure smooth transition for professionals who can’t risk downtime. It’s not a case of most people being stuck on old software indefinitely.
For me, I would suggest any starting music producer or musician to go with windows rather than spending top dollar on Apple, Here are few reasons why:- 1. It's cheaper 2. You can get your plugins illegally if you choose to (I'm not encouraging piracy, but it's your wish) 3. Older software support and Longer lasting: I can still open projects 4-5 Years old which has 32bit plugins, even while running the latest Windows 10, I can always use the 32 bit version of a plugin. I can still use a 10 year old PC to make music, with the latest OS installed or latest version of DAW but older plugins, something that Apple is not consistent with. Older stuff mostly refuses to work on Mac 3. Highly customizable hardware, you can choose to have 15 USB A ports with 2 ThunderBolt and 2 USB C, whatever you wish, directly to the motherboard without any powered dongle, plus if you want to do videos you can just add in a graphics card down the line, or upgrade the RAM by yourself if you are heavy on Kontakt, no need to visit the place you bought from or the manufacturer most of the times. 4. If anything goes wrong at hardware level, eg: some hard disk failure, power surge, lightning, high voltage, water damage, etc, your data that was on the internal disk usually remains safe and you can pull the data out of it to another PC or another Mac even if the PC is completely dead and damaged 5. Freedom to choose whatever to want to do, PC is just like a tool which can do anything you want for cheaper, If you want to make or learn 3D Animation, the same PC will work with minor upgrades or no upgrades at all.
For me, I would suggest not comparing a portable Mac with a tower PC. Unless you're able to, say, build 15 USB ports into a ThinkPad. Half of your points are BS, and the other half are just ignorant. The one that's half-right is #1: you'll always find a PC that's cheaper than the cheapest Mac. I'm not sure this is something to brag about, though.
I totally appreciate Andrew making this video, such a contentious issue and I feel he did (fairly) well staying unbiased. But I can't help but feel he's been tainted by sub-par PC systems and is using that experience as his basis for opinion, which is totally fair. I've used around 7 Macs for production, and not one of them has been a smooth time. Crashes, lagging and freezing all over the place (one Mac couldn't even handle 30 channels hahaha), whereas on my (custom built) PC, I've had 2 crashes in the 5 years I've owned it and regularly push 250 channels no problem. Considering music production requires a substantial file structure in place, MacOS can't hold a candle to Windows Music production needs serious horsepower, which Windows dominates in price to performance Quite literally the only edge MacOS has is Core Audio, which I'm insanely jealous of! But spending 2x (sometimes 3x) the amount needed for equivalent hardware is a hard no from me.
The problem is, computing in general is a very anecdotal thing. I for instance have swapped to Mac for my IT work and it's completely changed my life and the way I work, I'm so much more productive. It's extremely circumstantial and not much research or surveying is out there for that experience to get a more general view. I think the best way to put it is just, they're both different, they both have pros and cons, it's your choice what you use. That's it.
Don't forget the: Download our new OS X!! It has this and that new feature, look how cool it looks!!! (Tons of plugins and daws stop working unless you pay for the newest versions). I would only buy a Mac nowadays for the core audio and for the plug and play without drivers thing, but for me, that's not worth the price diference.
@@Thegbear Oh 100% dude, what is one persons experience might be the opposite of someone elses, and thats absolutely cool. I'm glad you found a platform that works for you and your workflow, I've heard that MacOS is very good for IT work; just about every engineer ive ever seen uses MacOS for their work (though I heard deploying workplace Macs is a nightmare haha). And yeah totally agreed, both have their pros and cons for sure, and its whatever trade-off that you prefer that dictates your choice. If it works for you, it works! :D
@@olliejarvis1200 oddly enough I find deploying macs in a workplace to be the easiest thing in the world haha, they're so easy and nice to work with for IT, even in Microsoft hybrid environments as there's a really simple remote desktop/workspace app.
as a Logic user.........it’s not even really a debate for me lmao. also i’m running a current version of Logic Pro X on a 2010 macbook pro so i can’t really complain
@@danpreston564 Yes you can. Not the M1 version but last I checked, the last version for Intel chips can run on Mojave, and I boot Mojave in less than 10 seconds on my 2012 Macbook Pro.
@@jas_bataille I run 10.12 Sierra. Even that is too much for my iMac. The last update that ran acceptably was Yosemite. I stopped being able to update logic on Sierra ages ago.
This is a mood. I’ve had two Tascam interfaces stop being supported on Mac OS as they won’t release new drivers. On windows I can still run legacy drivers and they work flawlessly
It's funny how there's still this "Mac is better than PC for music" idea cause everyone's thinking about average producers, totally ignoring the fact that, for instance, in the movie industry (soundtracks, heavily using orchestras libraries and many many instances of Kontakt and plugins) people tend to use PC workstation, especially with more than a PC connected via VEP. Also, I respectfully disagree on the live performance bit of the video. For many years I have seen PC workstations used in live broadcast show and world tour of big stars like Rihanna and Beyonce. Of course, those are smooth machine with a dedicated BIOS, not the computer you randomly buy on Amazon. And don't even get me started on audio post-production. Sorry but no, when it comes to high performance it is always PC. Mac has one advantage: everyone can buy it and it will do good. That doesn't mean that a professional will find the best performance on MacOS machines...
@@aarohanyt7374 I think he's referring to the audio and lighting desks themselves. A lot of them run on Linux or Windows. And most media servers these days are Windows based
I think most desks run Linux, because it's way better suited for embedded systems. Though I do audio production on Linux at my day job as well. And I make tutorials on YT about it :)
Hey Andrew, Overall great points and I like the video. Computers are tools. Use the correct tool for the job. There are a couple points I take issue with. I absolutely disagree with Apple hardware being more reliable. I work at a place with 50,000+ computers and I have seen way more catastrophic hardware failures from Mac when they account for probably 10% of the total computers in the environment. Windows PCs can also be repaired cheaply which is an entire other topic, but the takeaway is Apple is very anti-consumer in their repair practices. I think most people would agree those practices should be illegal if they were educated on them. I also think a lot of people are comparing a $500 Walmart special to a $1600 Macbook when they do a comparison because much like Android vs iOS, Windows has endless possibilities of what can be inside your computer and many people do not know what they're buying or how to configure it. Knowing how to use your tools is important and I can confidently state this is an issue on both platforms. I tend to find that MacOS will coddle the users to the point where they come up with some very very bad practices though. Windows will let you know how it feels about you doing those kinds of things way earlier. This can be good or bad for either party depending on if you want reliability or proficiency. Overall great video though. Thumbs up.
He mainly talks about portable devices such as phones and tablets. The latency issue is VERY obvious and Apple is the clear winner. Stationary computers is a different situation. I am also working on Windows computers, so in that regard I can agree with you.
It's true. I try and make music on my android and the latency makes it impossible to keep a rhythm. My friend can play synth on garage band with barely any latency and velocity control.
I re-reviewed everything I need. And my dependencies to other people, because peer pressure and team work sometimes forces me to use the same software as they use. And I found out that I can be free, so I moved to Linux. Especially being in pandemic, having less often talk with friends helps me to develop a habit that is independent and less influenced by other people. Although that also have some negative effect on mental health but that's a different topic.
My main takeaway from the comments is that there seem to be way more people making music on Linux than I thought, and that fucking rules. I do wonder how many people would switch over if a native Linux version of whatever DAW they're using was available. There's so few reasons to use Windows for me, but music is sadly one of them and I hope that will change.
When it comes to the money I'd say the numbers are a bit off. Many apps that are paid on apple don't have a single free alternative, forcing the user to pay. The Apple store is strongly influenced by Apple focused on revenue. The Google play store allowes for a lot more freedom from developers offering many advantage for the user like: free apps.
I think you missed the point... developers would be more inclined to have a premium product on a service without feeling the need to create a free alternative. Just because a free app is advantageous for the user, doesn't mean the developer would feel its advantageous for themselves. Also I would point out that the focus on revenue would push more premium content on the apple store, just because it would make more money since there is a market for quality programs.
The thing you mentioned is true but thats not the point ! If the devs want to make the app paid , they do it ! It ensures their work pays off and they can yield the reward If the devs decide to make it free , they have to find alternatives (ad,inapppurchaes etc) Basically the devs decide what they want to do so the blame doesnt fall on anyone
@@aarohanyt7374 Yes agreed but Apple does not allowed for in app purchases and alike that are not in line with their policy. (Epic games vs Apple is actually all about that) This in return creates a lot more revenue for Apple, when we look at Android many great apps might be incredible profitable but we don't see the numbers in the Google play stores revenue because they are not part of the apps revenue stream except for being on the Play store itself.
Love this, many great points but I have been around too many broken Macbooks to fully buy into the notion that in general, they are better build quality. I'm impressed at your clarity on anecdotal evidence! Keep up the good work!
Mostly agree, but I use all three. Linux is most flexible, but I wouldn’t call it more stable. Ultimately, I’d like to see more music software compatibility for Linux. One thing is clear, Windows 10 is horrendous.
The only thing I don't agree with in this video is the "longevity". Having been a PC user in a MAC dominated world (art school and beyond) I have actually seen most people's macs start to have issues within a few years and be almost unusable in about 5. Now, you can definitely get much worse results on PC but with some research and conscientious buying you can easily double that on a PC. I mean, my main work machine is 10 years old and works just fine (there were some minor upgrades for performance) and the only real reason I want to upgrade at this point is just for the raw performance bump....
I think a lot of people just don't treat their computers well regardless of the OS. I have a Mac that is a decade old still running like day 1. Only gave me one single major issue in the past that was fixed right away with an update. I've lost count on how many PCs I had to fix for friends.
I think the best way to make music on Linux is using native plug-ins. Recently Vital has been released - it's as good or even better than Serum and works on Linux out of the box. Has been open-sourced recently too :)
My only issue with wine is midi. Somehow it can never see more than 16 midi ports, which just seems arbitrary and ridiculous (just all my physical devices combined is more than 16 i/o ports).
I think the conclusion here is: "apple users are rich". To me that only means that the bar for entry is way higher for anyone to even start doing music production on them. If you use Free and Open Source Software you can make music on a computer you found in the trash. Having the funds to buy apple gear doesn't mean you have the creativity or skills to make better music either.
Yes but also no? You gotta have money to get apple products, but if you're getting more experienced and doing live events it seems like the more reliable platform to go for. Regardless I think Andrew concluded with a "Apple is exceptionally better on mobile, marginally better on computers". So if you are a more serious music producer, it could give you that edge. For me I'll always be a PC fan but I think he shone a very interesting light on the facts alone, and each person can interpret that their own way.
@@chevrotain The fact is that you need some serious money to get started making musing on Apple products. The question remains if that then is "better" for making music. I'd argue that it is not. The best thing for making music is being able to express yourself creatively regardless of your financial status.
No that’s not the conclusion. The conclusion is if you’re making music with high stakes like a live concert, you need a Mac. If you’re making music at home and have no problem with downtime, crashing and loosing part of your work sometimes you can get a windows machine
@@_DRMR_ yeah I agree, I think you're right but I don't personally believe that's the main takeaway. If money is an issue, then clearly a non-apple alternative will be better, but if not, you may as well go apple.
@@Xemerius7 hmm I think you're exaggerating how unreliable windows computers really are, they're definitely much closer when it comes to performance, it's just that 1 in 100. Definitely not worth the risk for kanye concerts tho lol!
All fair arguments in my opinion... One thing you didn't go in to though, on the value for money tangent, is that you haven't talked about upgradability in regards these machines (Mac and PC), you can't ignore that in this topic.
i'd say you can mostly ignore it. i bought a 2013 mac pro in 2014. it still doesn't struggle with tons of plugins running. it probably still won't when i get rid of it for an M1 mac. the specs don't really matter if it's doing the job without choking, right? sure, it'd be nice to have an easily upgradeable ssd, but that's about it
Repairability more so than upgradability imo. Apple actively tries to keep users from repairing their devices. If one chip dies, they'll try to sell you a new board close to the price of a new device to push you into upgrading the model altogether. Independent repair shops have a hard time getting the necessary hard and software to fix stuff - see any Louis Rossmann video on the topic.
People spend more money in the App Store because 1) they are usually wealthier people and 2) you can download apk files on android which means you can side load apps far far easier so you can get cracked apps for free. Also I’m not saying any os is better in fact I’m watching this on an iPad but own an android phone
Lol wealthier?? Wow talk about ridiculous .. Smh... I've read afew dumb comments on this video, & this is up there... Ios users are Just a lil more ignorant (not wealthier) wen it comes to the way these billing systems operate. Apple charge/plunder MUCH less (around 10%ish per app sale) than google play store (which leaches at LEAST 30% from each app Sale) when it comes to app sales. So in this vid as the host compars sales (behaving as though sales is indicative of product exposure, quality or performance
Yeah but once you put yourself in the dev's perspective you'll never want to develop for android. So even if now it's nice to have Android for .apk, if the trend doesn't change there will be less and less quality apps for Android than there are for iOS over time. This video really changed my perspective on the Android vs iOS war, gotta say
@@matteodonato3918 dno why it'd change ur perspective unless u weren't aware of how apple & google make their cash thru the app stores ... This video certainly didn't go into that very detrimental detail of biz model. Big biz always chases the dollar... Some more than most... As for apps & usability, it comes down to the dev.. Sum just have no interest for the simple fact google plunder 30%.. Thing is, that 30% cost can be tax deductible in a number of ways... Be it thru marketing fee write off's, thru to agency /management fees etc.. Many ways that the 30% google fee can be rebated... Tax can be ur friend if u know wtf ur doin with ur biz... So in the long run, claiming a expense to receive a higher return is to the dev benefit...Spesh if they have the same app on multiple platforms... One offsets the other... At the end of the day, you'll find it's much of a muchness. But as a pro, I can guarantee that u won't find many real professionals using tablets or phones for anything more than just being a hw controller... sure there are those that use mobile apps, obviously, but if ur doin serious paid work with client scrutiny , you'd be using serious equipment or at least learning about it for when you evolve ... Imagine being a customer & ur looking for photography or video for a wedding, having a client pop round to see/hear ur work, & u pop out ur phone or ipad hoping to impress them .. Yeah nah, it's not a good look... This video is a stereotypical pandering ego-stroke for Apple ( in general) for many reasons. I won't get into it, but hell, all I'm seeing here in this vid is a flag waving exercises(there's a couple) in the hopes of making ios users feel good & confident enough to go out and buy an app which is inferior to Roland's free offering.. Now if I wanted to try get on apple's good side in the hopes of some free gear, & an increase in status by being a sycophant & I had a need to inflate my esteem coz i carry the belief an OS will improve & define my art, my creativity, my skills & my experience, I too would be doing vids like this ... & if I was trying to sell my warez on apples platform, I'd be putting tickets on everything apple has to offer & cash in on ppls confirmation bias. Its vids like this that annoy me coz i gta counter the misinformation & educate clients & students when they bring up rubbish they saw online... Imma say this to everyone here... Ppl, U are not ur gear, don't identify ur art or who u are thru that gear. U are not ur OS ...if you think an OS or tech specs or a product defines u & ur art, then go get psychological help... Being a creative human, don't get hung up or allow the technicals of any particular piece of gear to dictate wtf u should be doin... Or how.. No matter the opinion
7:27 why does this matter. As an app developer you don't have to pay for more people needing to download your app. In the end you should still need to be able to make 1/2 of the amount of sales on android as you do in iOS. not 1/5 as this implies
Big MacOS updates always seem to brick a lot of apps, and devs have to then rush to fix things that Apple broke. Meanwhile jumping from Windows 8 to 10 did not hinder the functionality of any of my programs.
I build my own PCs which means I know exactly what’s in it and it can be just as “ready” as a Mac, if not more ready, for my needs. That’s down to the CPU and the type of RAM I want. This also means I can make my PC more powerful than most Macs out of the box and pay as little as half the price. That will be the number one reason I choose PC over Mac. It literally IS the computer I built and I know I’m not paying the Mac Tax for something as rudimentary as ram. I’m not anti-Apple as I completely agree with you about iOS and have an iPad and an iPhone...but those are very stand alone devices and enjoy the experience the same way I might enjoy working on a groovebox.
Fully agree, for phone Apple is better. But you can build a PC that is way better than a Mac for half or a quarter of the price. I'm not anti-mac as I havea Macbook Pro also, but it costs around the same as my PC which is crazy spec in comparison.
@@snaxmiller Stability issues are one thing and doing crap is not something only Apple can do: Microsoft can do that with updates as well. So I would say equal share here. The other story are OS upgrades. They can include changes how an program can interact with the OS. These are documented normally and the developers should be aware of them - at least they have all information, beta access etc so they can prepare. Some companies are every year surprises about a new MacOS release 🤷♂️ But in general: if you work with your machine, just wait at least 3 months until an OS upgrade. Doesn’t matter if Mac or Windows 10 half year upgrades. Check if there are any known issues and if not and you are really keen on the new stuff: then update.
Have been using Linux for 25 years now, and can't stand using anything else any more. Most of the things I rely on for daily work aren't even possible in Windows, and are extremely inconvenient or impossible in OSX. I recognize that this limits my toolkit for music, but let's be honest -- regardless of OS, the reason people don't make better music isn't because their tools aren't good enough.
@Gekko That's a pretty hardcore switch, diving right into the deep end! Normally for a new user I'd recommend Mint and a more traditional desktop interface. Me, I'm mostly using Debian, and the interface is ... heavily customized. Sawfish with a bunch of code I made for it, plus a mishmash of various tools I've accumulated over the decades. For music, I'm mostly just using Reaper to record and arrange clips from hardware synths, plus a little midi daemon I wrote to auto-connect stuff and remap notes.
@Gekko No judgement here... I started with Slackware, and had to compile almost everything from upstream sources, basically doing the job that package maintainers would normally do, to get it all working together on my system. Once I reached the point where I needed to upgrade stuff to get new features, I realized I'd have to do it all over again, and tried some other distros to see if they made it any easier. After trying a few, I settled on Debian sometime in 1997 and have been happy with it ever since. Have tried a bunch of others, of course... and was involved in making several. But none have really made me want to switch. Anyway, I just don't often see "recently switched to Linux" and "using Arch and/or Xmonad" in the same sentence. It's cool, just uncommon.
I've been doing music on Arch for a while now, and once your JACK ecosystem is up and running correctly it's an absolute dream. I always forget that having anything-to-anything routing isn't a thing on a lot of systems. It's also a testimony to how good Linux has become as an everyday operating system that I literally forget I'm running Linux sometimes and accidentally install Windows versions of software out of force of habit. And then use them for quite a while until I realise what I've done, because WINE has become so seamless and reliable these days.
Can you give precise example of things you weren't able to do on windows/mac ? I do work of Linux (developer), but i wouldn't use it right now for personal purposes. So i'm really interested to know :)
This is way too much generalization to be useful to anyone. If you have an old windows laptop, you should use whatever software is available instead of running to a different platform and buying a new computer
If you have an old Windows laptop, you may switch to Linux. It doesn't update in the middle of a recording and uses only the necessary ressources. I use updated Ardour with my 2007 laptop and 2007 Firewire audio interface.
@@benoittissier58 To be fair, Windows warns you before it auto-updates. It gives you up to a month and a half I think, if you go into settings and delay the update to the maximum amount of time. I wish you could just turn it off though (you can in Pro but not Home; I did see someone say something about group policy editor being a solution, though I haven't tried it yet). Every time I update windows my games drop in performance by like 70% and I need to roll back my drivers.
@@demp11 he run's FL Studio which has been Windows only for a large proportion of it's life. It is not about the OS it is about your setup and what works for you
@Aditya Shah because he would have got a way better performance and battery life if he bought a Windows laptop. Because they way cheaper for there value (except the new M1 macbooks they just insane)
@Aditya Shah you're joking right? I never said that why do people always have to make things up? My point was that he could have bought a laptop with way more performance and battery life for the same money, or could have spent even more when money isn't the problem and got an absolute top of the line Notebook. On Apple your stuck with what they give you and what they give you is just bad value no matter if you have the money or not.
@@daxvena its based on linux but its not. I also try to convert apks into linux And i was deep learning how different the operating system is. And Android is so much Linux like Mac Os is Linux The Ecosystem from this Operatingsystem is different.
Problem is if I wanted to get a mac for music, I would use it only for music and idk if that's worth it,,,, gonna steal uni macs and logic for as long as possible
Depends on how much you value it. If you make enough money with your music then it tends to be a no-brainer to have a dedicated machine. But if you're like me and make less than $20k a year doing work you don't care for (with bills, scammy compulsory insurance, taxes, etc.), it's a no-brainer to have one decent computer that does everything you need it to.
a lot of anecdotal evidence here. As a person who works in the music industry as well, I can say from my side, NOBODY uses macs. honestly, it comes down to preference. Audio interfaces allow latency free input and playback for PCs as well as Macs, which you didn't touch on at all, only Ipads and other handheld devices.
I've been using a pc with ableton for a couple of years and it's been really solid. Literally the only time I've had either of my pc's crash was when I bought new ram and one of the sticks arrived faulty. So I'd say the only thing that really bothers me is the issues with aggregate audio devices, it'd be real nice if someone could figure that out...
After doing home studio recording for 6 years on a powerful enough pc, I decided to get a Mac Mini when the cpu went bad on my pc. I will never go back.
in the end, the only _real_ reasons are the audio latency, paying the programmers more and the fact that you're more comfortable with it. All of those are fair and well enough reasons to do your app. In the end, your product, your choice. But as someone who frequently uses both apple and pc as well as ios and android, this video is heavily biased.
I didn't really understand this video much. Like you said, the latency is the reason. The rest is just making straw man arguments to support why it doesn't make sense to make an Android Flip app.
I will have to say, DirectX sucks. I always use my asio interface but when I'm looking through splice sometimes it doesn't play nice with it. I have a workaround tho.
that juce list looks dated AF, 'newest' phones I see there are from 2017 and that's when Android started to support sub 10ms latency. it's been an issue for longest time for sure and still might depend on phone manufacturer, but at least on OS side things are done right to make music apps usable. it's the apps that Android needs right now, and I bet Flip could run no problem on modern Android devices. Also, what Andrew said about 'any' iOS devices that run under 10ms latency, there's caveat to that. the lower latency comes at cost of performance and older devices can start to perform poorly as app updates and at some point support can be dropped as well, which happened with Figure app for instance. I've seen some DAW-like apps on iPad mini 2 perform with so much stutter when you actually try to add some tracks and make music, that it becomes unusable.
The Flip app rocks! Being a lazy person, I hardly ever fire up my daw and controller. Now I constantly want to open the app and try playing around with some weird sounds I record outside.
"Android Device", I assume, includes Android TV:s, Android Auto, any IOT device? In addition to that there have been so many useless low price phones and tablets that never really were intended for any serious work. And "24000" sounds as if it is 24000 completely different devices to support when, in fact, many of them will be supported form the get go. I bet there are a great number of Samsung devices in that list that will work for different models. The biggest problem isn't the hardware itself. It's the fact that older devices don't keep getting updated as long as for IOS devices. Some apps require higher Android versions than is supported. Then there is also the problem with the under powered budget devices that is further complicated when newer versions of Android just sucks up more system power.
I've just started using my iPad Pro 12.9 for music production. My main production system that I use is a PC based machine that I built. I'll continue to use it. But on a mobile scale, the iPad Pro is awesome and I won't use anything else.
For me, its about the operating system. I started producing music using a mac. I never once had it crash on me. Not once. Then I switched to PC cause it was a cheaper option at the time. I am using Windows 10 pro currently and I absolutely hate it. My PC has crashed on me several times during production. There are constant updates. Lately Windows updates have done a number of things. Windows app store icon is dimmed out and won't load. Constant driver updates. Got the blue screen of death after an update about 3 months ago. I had to strip the hard drive and reinstall everything. On my old macbook pro, I never once had any of those issues. Never once had to reinstall IOS. The only issue I had with my mac, was a battery issue that was easily solved by replacing it. So over all.... I have to go with Apple due to its operating systems stability.
I'm crushed in the first three minutes... he mentions how on average how much better Apple phone hardware is, which everyone understands but not everyone can afford. One of my favorite songs I made was too much latency for the FL Studio App on my $50 droid phone(I break phones so often and dev I just refuse to spend a ton on phones except yeah a specific dev phone I use just for that), but I worked with what I had camping out in the woods, and I always appreciate developers who give options to those who don't use the excuse that Apple Hardware is just better and as in this example compare it to some of the worse and slowest Android phones that at least more masses have access to. This is why when I developed educational software I made sure Android was a key point because of the affordability and access. I remember too when I bought a top Macbook pro for the time just to buy into the hype, then instantly I was sad to lose access to all my freeware VST's that I started making music on broke. I was so happy when it got stolen. I have tossed so much cash now at hardware and software but yeah I just feel for people who are working on that $50 phone making amazing music or whatever(learning app) and people seem to try to explain their hardware is just better(On mac) and basically turn their back on them. Stuff just makes me sad at least Andrew has this channel on both devices and open access.
This is an unfair statement because Andrew's video is in terms of music production, which is a very specific with it's requirements. You wouldn't get a mac to play games on, but you would highly consider it if you can have a computer that lasts a long time and will run your music software slightly better straight out of the box than an alternative that may or may not be stable or become obsolete in a few years, especially in laptops.
It's more that you can't get a cheap Mac, whereas you can get a cheap PC. But if you're looking at price for performance, the "Apple tax" is mostly a myth -- for laptops anyways. Of course they get you with overpriced peripherals (keyboards and mice and etc.), but apart from that, it's just that Mac doesn't have a "lower end" offering on the market.
@@GuilleFrenk interesting. I have been making music on gaming laptops for a while. I have been working with this latest gaming laptop for the last 4-5 years with no issues, no crashes, and no bugs. It’s been pretty smooth for me.
@Filip Squibb I would say that every pro Andrew mentions about Mac 11:28 applies except the “it just works”, sometimes you have to fiddle a bit to make something work (but there is always a way), and none of the expenses: you can use any PC, even an old one, Ubuntu is free to download as well as Ardour (a native daw).
If anyone wants to try I would recommend it, specially if you are starting out. Here are some of my favorite software: For DAW there is Ardour and Bitwig. Ardour can be obtained for free and it’s a great daw, a little bit old schooled tho. It is my favorite one for traditional tracking and mixing, as in using mics and not a ton of effects and modulations. On the other hand Bitwig is great for modern production, I like it to experiment with sounds. Both daws are also available for Windows and Mac which is a plus. For plugins I use the ones included with each daw or Windows ones to emulate analog equipment. If you are a fan of Andrew then you have to try VCV Rack, is an Eurorack emulator. Paired with a midi keyboard or sequencer it’s amazing, the best one out there. Also check out Open Stage Control, this is my most recent discovery and I’m fascinated. It lets you control your daw from any device without the need to install any app, it runs in any browser. You can create your custom controllers and it is free. Finally for video editing (and a bunch of other stuff) you can use Blender, it is my favorite software ever (although a bit hard to learn at first) and it’s free too haha :)
Ok so on Laura's desk there's a Livid Instruments OHM, which is super cool cuz I happen to know the owner and they're pretty obscure nowadays. Just something interesting I noticed. Love the content Andrew!
I remember discovering those randomly years ago and being confused at the lack of explanation as to what it is *exactly* haha. Sometimes I wonder why people at companies assume everyone knows what their products are and do. For example, the massive boxes MOTU makes.
@@mikeexits I know! I just remember seeing them and thinking they looked so cool... but having no idea what their use was lol. Unfortunately, i think that livid is no more considering their entire website has been shut down and the owner isn't really in a condition to run a company like that
As someone who worked in IT and has experience in both devices. The mac OS is very smooth, very clean and easy. The hardware "feels" nice (on the inside its not great quality, check louis rossman for examples). The problem arises when your apple investment ends up making you pay more. More for apps, more for repairs, more for upgrades, more for adapters and hubs and "apple compatible" hardware. In a PC, usually there is a way to fix almost any problem. with apple products there is a lot of things that aren't fixable and any repairs are purposefully monopolized by apple. If your data storage fails in a pc, its a LOT easier to backup, replace and recover than any sort of modern mac. same for any other hardware failures. Old software almost always has a way to run on a pc. Older hardware has a higher chance to work on pc. If your technician is skilled enough, they can make a pc run nicely for a DECADE with far less investments in money. Stability problems mainly come from cheap laptops. if you are getting a laptop I understand why you would want to get a macbook, laptops are designed for people who are uninformed and who will put up with bloatware and dodgy drivers that always "eventually works". The big exception to this rule is Lenovo Thinkpads, and in general laptops that are designed for businesses. Businesses do not tolerate the software bs that comes with "home laptops". but even with the cheap laptops, the a lot of the time the problems can be fixed (with decent skill).
I produce on Ubuntu Linux. Before you ask: No, I don't hate myself.
Do you ha-oh...huh.
What software do you use?
Okay, then I have another question: Are you sure tho? :D
I tried Ableton on Manjaro, it was a big yikes
Wow, I have tried, but, what apps do you use?
How does that even work? Lol
The best product to make music is the one you are most comfortable with.
THIS.
Facts
@@DannyDraco Not really. Factually it's whatever WINDOWS product you're most comfortable with.
@@lexruptor bro shut up.
@@lexruptor You've already left more than 20 comments in this one video hating on Apple, get help.
*gets popcorn*
I recognize you! I just found your channel a day-or-two ago!
yes. same.
And cinema HD, fildo, modded Fl studio, modded everything and the price?.. just watch the ad for 30 seconds.😂😂😂
hahah yuuuup
Now I want popcorn
I took the whole Andrew's monthly class using linux all the time.
Mac is like linux with those bumpers at a bowling alley that dont let your ball go in the gutter lol
@@ninjaturtles1010 That is... an incredibly accurate and swift analogy, wow.
@@ninjaturtles1010 well there is a good reason for that... they are both based on Unix.
basado
@@CyclesAreSingularities I use Arch btw
Great video dude! Miss you! The iOS vs Android thing was mindblowing, so interesting!
Being a Pro Tools moron, anecdotally, my experience is that Pro Tools has run better on PC for me. A couple VSTi would sometimes max out my 2017 macbook pro. I'm pretty sure that's due to Avid and not the core systems though, but Pro Tools is still the dominant program in the music industry as a whole so how it performs does hold weight.
I'm sure there's people out there with the opposite experience though. I wish I would have taken the plunge to Logic or Ableton at some point but now I have too much muscle memory for this program haha.
How did I see this 11 seconds after it was posted?
Same goes with FL studio. People who use Mac complain about it being buggy. There are some vsts that I use that are windows only
I have access to Pro Tools from the MIDI keyboard I bought, plus Ableton Live Lite. I tried it a little, but later I hopped to Pop!_OS with jack + Ardour, and it has been working just fine.
If I'm ever going to have a Mac I might revisit Pro Tools.
ProTools moron here as well. Avid have that rare gift of pissing off both Mac and PC users equally. Not that Digidesign wasn't already skilled at that :D
Not that mind-blowing. It's not even per-se the hardware that is "optimized" it's that android uses a giant layer of java muck in between the hardware and the software which just slows everything down. iOS is able to run more directly on the hardware (no virtual machine) so you get lower latencies.
In all honestly I hate both of these and I can't wait for maemo-leste to be fully functional on my droid4.
anecdotally, a huge part of apple vs. android/pc ethos comes down to the end-user vs. diy mentality. growing up with home-built PCs (my dad works in the IT industry), i’m used to being able to start from scratch (slapping OEM windows on a freshly built machine, no bloatware) and fixing whatever problems arise. With mac, none of that is an option. You *can* try and fix things in a basic level, but my biggest frustrations with Apple have been simply having to wait for someone else to fix a problem that was forced on me with a bad update, etc. “It just works...” except when it doesn’t. Trusting some kid at the Apple store takes getting used to after being able to fix most problems myself.
Two thumbs up from me!
You’re also stuck troubleshooting and diagnosing yourself. My custom built PC started crashing and I wasted three days trying to figure it out - in that time I could have had a replacement Mac and been back to work.
Take the red pill. Go the next step. Experience the freedom of Linux :P
@@jonoc5 What about all your files on the old machine? Software installation... it’s more work than just booting a replacement laptop.
I get what youre saying, but if youre having some sort of a problem with iOs because of a bad update, Im pretty sure its not "kids at the apple store" who are fixing these issues...
in this modern age mac vs pc really doesnt matter like it used to
It never did. It was just a matter of "you like that? get it. You don't like it? Don't get it"
It still does. But only if you’re doing very important stuff like live concerts and need the reliability
@@pedrosilvaproductions No it did, because Pro tools hateed PC. Nowadays, it really doesn't matter
@@pedrosilvaproductions It matters loads if you're on mobile, Android has horrendously limited options for music production because there's no standardized audio architecture. Almost everything is incompatible with Androids as a whole because there's no reasonable solution to potentially massive latency. I had to search high and low for an Android-compatible mobile interface so I could integrate a particular app into my live guitar work.
A Mac is technically also just a PC.
Mac vs. PC for music production cannot be separated from your DAW of choice. Some would work better on a Mac some on Windows, for some there's no difference, and some are Mac or Windows only. In the end, this is not something you can discuss in abstract in 2021.
I agree, there's so much tied to specifically what you're doing or using that you can't just talk about big picture "mac v PC" without being somewhat disingenuous. Also "Macs don't have forced updates like PCs" seems like a strong point, but you can stop auto updates and I think for me a bigger point would be "Updating your mac can literally stop the software you have from working because of Apple's increasingly hostile stances against developers". To me there is no OS which is "The One" for music production, they've all got pluses and minuses but I see far too many unwilling to admit to the minuses on mac's end besides the price.
That was my thought, too. I've seen a lot of composers saying they have to use Mac because they want to use Logic Pro, and that's the end of the discussion. All the other considerations become irrelevant.
If you use Logic, you have no option... (I'm glad I use Ableton and I can switch the OS if I want)
I use both with very robust machines and mac wins on stability, durability and easy to use. If I want to play games or edit videos, windows for sure. I’m a hardcore user and I have no preference in my heart, but to me is more about “you pay is what you get.” I also use Android and IOS on a daily basis. IOS wins for music production because you can do so so so so much more than Android. My heart still can’t let go of the Android, but its not a fair comparison... IOS is years ahead for music production.
Yes, but besides the DAW you also have to take into consideration the Audio Interfaces and Protocols... Most Audio Interfaces are compatible with Mac and plus almost all Macs have Thunderbolt, Core Audio, MIDI and Audio over network out of the box. With Windows you gotta download the proper Midi and ASIO drivers, only a few PC's have Thunderbolt and no Audio over network.
So it would be logical for any developer to focus on those things as there's less fragmentation in terms of hardware.
Now here’s what boggles me: Apple has the tablet/phone market cornered, yet they change music hardware compatibility protocols with every OS!!! A pissed off captive audience is not a good business model!
But they all buy the latest device every other year anyway. Great business model if you ask me ;)
Sounds like they have you convinced to keep buying Apple, so changing of ports every time forces you to buy the matching dongle.
All fair points, of course they are a massively successful company so something is working. It just seems like that framework is bound fail eventually when a competitor presents a better option.
That’s just not true. Also, Apple is one of the slowest companies to change their hardware IO. The lightning port is only the 2nd gen iOS input...it’s been there for like 12 years now.
@@magicmark3309 Sure the port is the same, but have you ever seen the infamous "this device is not supported" message? It'll plug in but it might not do much else...
As an Android fan and IT geek (it's literally my job), when it comes to mobile devices this is a pretty fair take. I could be really pedantic about a couple of minor details, but honestly it's stuff that just doesn't matter enough. I wish Android was better for music than it is, but it just isn't.
If you're talking actual computers/laptops, again it's literally my job to support both OS's, there's basically no difference. Personal preference is a bigger consideration than any other factor right now. Apple's new chipset may change that in the future. Whichever you want to use, it's a good time to be making music on a computer.
majority of musicians: *cries in working class*
Yep... The issue with apple only products is that people in 3rd world countries simply have no access to it..
@@GabrielCasagrandeMusic They do while they're building them and holding their piss for 12 hours a day.
Ubuntu Studio for PC is free and created specifically for low-latency.
the nice thing is that the new m1 macbook air can handle production and is only $1000, which really isn’t TOO much more than a pc that’s powerful enough to do heavy audio editing. is that a great price? absolutely not. but it is a massive improvement over the $2000-$3000 it used to cost for a capable mac
I used to use cobbled together pc’s for the beginnings of my audio career. Eventually gave in and bought a second hand MacBook Pro for $300au upgraded the ram and hard drive and never looked back.
If anyone wants to learn how to make music on Linux, I'm here to help :D
I am curious and interested but have no idea about Linux at all
@@ianfridlington1047 I am creating tutorials just for that purpose! Right now I'm preparing one about doing vocal pitch correction using free (and open-source) software. I'm showing plugins and teaching Ardour - my FOSS / Linux DAW of choice.
@@unfa00 thank you. I might need something more basic as a primer first though
@@ianfridlington1047 Good luck! I'm always open to suggestions :)
It's Unfa! I love your Linux music videos! I've got a couple tutorials for LMMS up on my channel, and I'm planning even more Linux audio tutorials down the line. If Unfa doesn't have what you need, I'll do what I can to fill in!
This may be a niche community in the industry... but a lot of people who are actually regularly throwing heavy workloads (unthinkable for a laptop) at their audio workstation will use windows because of the bottom line: you can get beefier hardware than Apple will ever sell you if you custom build.
If you need more than the 28-core Xeon with 1.5TB of RAM that the top-end mac provides, I really want to see your sessions!
@@mikelucamusic That's a fair point, but you should always keep in mind the price-performance ratio. And PC just COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY annihilates Mac on that front.
@@mikelucamusic those specs for... how much...? 50k? no matter if you can afford it (people requiring those specs are most likely to be able to afford it) but the price is ridiculous, chances are you are getting a better Custom Build with that budget.
@@gushatthe Yeah for 50k you could custom built that computer and also build a media server lmao
@@yona9798 price only makes so much difference if the prospect is a tangibly more suitable system.
My custom PC blows my MacBook Air out of the water in most areas, especially price, but I’d still rather by another Air for music work if it breaks.
For me Logic Pro X is such a good deal for music production. $200 for all the plugins, virtual instruments, samples, etc that one could ever need. Native ability to use iPhone or iPad as remote control.
It's only after switching back to using Windows and messing around with Cakewalk, another fantastic deal, that I really miss some of the Logic Pro creature comforts. For me this is the main advantage of Apple for music.
Also, my Surface Book 2 has crashed many times even though it is Microsoft hardware and should supposedly be more stable. My Macbook Air 2015 has never crashed as far as I can remember. Definitely not while making music.
Your mistake was buying a surface. But for hardware compatibility apple is best. Not because they're neccasarily a better deal or even good components. It's just everything is built to work with them for audio
@@Jellyman good reply. They are optimized to work with macs better, however I don’t like my cpu tools mounted so I can’t really justify macs, seeing as I have the ability to upgrade my own ram and my own hard drive. I’m not against using macs I just can’t digest that hustle of mounted cpu components, it’s quite disgusting to me and while I can use AppleCare until they start giving out loaners I’m gone swipe to the windows side. 12-27-22
Overall, I think this is a great video, but the stability thing seems strictly biased. Maybe out of the box, macs won’t update out of nowhere, but you can change the settings to do the same in windows. If pc’s weren’t stable, esports wouldn’t be an industry. I know that has nothing to do with music, but both a concert and a gaming competition are in-person performances with a lot of money at stake. Esports players have to trust the hardware they are using. And many other industries trust windows/pc’s perfectly fine.
The virus/stability arguments are just propaganda at this point.
By the way I like Apple and own many of their products. It’s just their computer front is overhyped in my opinion
As an FL Studio and SONAR user, I'm pretty much tied to Windows forever 😂...
FL is on Mac too
@@prod.extelligence where is linux fl studio tho. I wish I could linux
Mac has logic tho (I have windows)
FL is for mac too
@@mrpinguin9189 I've heard FL Studio works fine with Proton.
I think windows 10 has narrowed the gap with Mac in terms of stability. I’ve had an MSI gaming laptop for 3 years and absolutely pushed it to its limits with games and music production. It’s been very stable for me. As someone who likes to play video games and make music, a PC is the only way.
Woah Woah Woah. Next you're going to tell me there are settings so it doesn't auto update in the middle of your concert! :-P
@@StephanAinley Yea, you can turn that off in the settings, just like a Mac, it was just an internet joke that it auto updates itself for no reason. It also asks after downloading updates (if you turned on auto update) whether you want to install it now or postpone the install, if you turned the auto update off, you have to manually go into settings and search for updates
@@beyondwaveforms3059 lol, how can you do that? as far as im concerned the setting switches on again automatically after at most 30 days. i would be keen to hear
@@humbugelfenheim8127 in Windows 10 you can set up 'active hours', so updates take place outside those active hours.
What if i told you that you can partition your mac's hard drive to run Windows on it for gaming? With a mac you can do audio on OSX and play on Windows, as well as being able to run plugins that are only available for one of the two systems (for example image-line plugins, which a lot of people will be familiar with)
Not to invalidate what you just said about the narrower gap, but pc isn't the ONLY way.
Bonus: mac's displays are insanely good for gaming, even tho you don't get the 144hz refresh rate that lower resolutions monitors can achieve
This video should be called: "Why is it better to develop apps for the Apple Store"
what a coincidence, Andrew has a new app that is only available on ios. But sure his opinions aren't biased.
@@daibaandtheghostmachine8952 ... maybe consider his new app is only on ios BECAUSE of this??
@@Aditya-co5sr Hold on, man, that's too many rocks to hit together. Give him a minute.
Drinking game: take a shot every time he says “Flip” - at least you’ll be drunk while watching a slightly covert infomercial 🤪
@@daibaandtheghostmachine8952 andrew said in the reveal that it will come out on android but it's going to take time. there's a reason why a lot of new apps come to iOS first.
Great video - I use a mixture of iOS, Android, Mac, and PC for various tasks and agree Apple still really shines for Audio production... But I would also add it's worth watching Louis Rossman's videos particularly about the new M1 macbooks. The fact Apple have started soldering the SSD to the logic board while also using it for additional cache space when all RAM is in use will very likely reduce the lifespan of these premium machines, or at the very least mean a costly repair bill after a couple of years. Apple love to talk a big game on the environment but they also like to push people to shorten their upgrade cycles. There are pros and cons to each platform, and remember at the end of the day you can make music with pretty much whatever you have :)
I wish more mainstream manufacturers and software embraced Linux, I want to enter my local PC store and _see_ Ubuntu (or some other OS) installed and running on display.
If Ableton Live, Hitfilm, Arturia's V Collection, Komplete, and Puremagnetik's plugins ran on Linux, I'd totally be interested in getting a dedicated Linux music production machine.
The other big problem is games. I have a backlog so big that I don't buy games anymore, and despite that I still have more games than I'll ever be able to finish in my lifetime lol. Losing all that would suck.
@@mikeexits To be fair, most things run on Linux these days, and if they don't it's not an issue caused by the Linux community but rather a lack of interest to support the platform from certain companies. For music production/sound design, UNFA (look him up here on youtube) seems to be doing just fine at a professional level with only Linux/FOSS.
And the same goes for games. I'm on Manjaro Linux and I'm having no issues playing anything from Valheim and Hades to Overwatch. The major obstacle that seems to be left for gaming on Linux is the combination of no Linux support and EasyAntiCheat, since from what I understand, running a game through wine doesn't play well with EAC. Again, that's not an issue caused by Linux though.
Back in the day I saw and bought PC from Fry's that were running Linspire (a Linux distro).
@SArpnt Cool. I'd say the gaming is more of a secondary concern though; the plugins I've invested in are a lot more important to me. That and Ableton Live is my dream DAW haha. Would be nice to see it and more plugins be made for Linux distribution though.
Linux is absolutely atrocious for music production at the moment unfortunately
Very convincing argument for iOS Vs android, not that convincing for Mac Vs pc
Literally this 💯
Refreshing to actually hear someone saying iOS vs Android and not Apple vs Android
Well he did say iOS had a big edge over android and Mac had a slight edge over PC
Yep. Like the argument about stability. It's users problem to maintaint it. Mac is just for lazy people or artists who doesn't know how his OS works and how to maintain stability (windows for sure needs engineers hand)
@@B4BOL I mean by saying that would mean macs have advantage as people want to pay for a product that works. That's not the fundemantal issue with apple products. Yes its streamlined but that totally doesn't make people lazy, you have to put the effort in to output content.
About the statement Andrew made. He said that maybe a Mac will cost twice as much and will have the exact same specs with a PC, but it runs comfortably for twice as much as PCs do, so the value of a Mac is the same with the PC.
My thought is, well, if I have to spend 1000$ to buy a good PC and use it for 5 years, or 2000$ for a Mac and use it for 10 years, I will still spend my 1000$ for the PC, and "keep" the other 1000$ to buy a PC with newer and better specs after 5 years. This sounds like a good deal for me.
You might even be able to change a couple parts for less on the first device and run longer as well.
@@TheCreateOutdoors yeah true
Not only that, but Macs lasting twice as long isn't even remotely true anyways
@@GeekyGami not twice, but way longer usually, SPECIALLY for laptops
I really like only having to buy one expensive computer for all my software and games so pc it is.
also Gamer-RGB
That's how I am. After being desktop-only, once my desktop stopped booting up after nearly a decade of use, I got a Lenovo Y720 for around $700 and it's perfect for my needs. Even has a built in little subwoofer and decent speakers for low to midrange Bluetooth speaker quality audio without needing external speamers.
It's a powerful rig for music creation, video editing, and gaming that I can take anywhere with me. I couldn't be happier (well, except for when I fried my motherboard while upgrading the hard drive and had to buy a whole new laptop; always prevent static discharge when working with exposed circuit boards guys, don't be like me).
@@mikeexits I’ve never fried anything with static, that sucks! But I live in Florida, I think the humidity keeps it from building up.
@@Reliquancy I think my problem was that I forgot to unplug the battery, and unplugged it in the middle of working when I realized; when I plugged it back in I saw a spark, and then suddenly my fans wouldn't turn on, HDMI and headphone ports didn't work, keyboard backlight wouldn't turn on, and my SATA hard drive port stopped working. I think the built in speakers stopped working too. Lenovo support had me on hold for an hour, only to tell me they wouldn't repair it without a warranty (I bought it used), even though I was willing to pay for it. It was a nightmare.
I actually made the same mistake when I was upgrading my 2nd one (despite promising to myself that I would unplug the battery before doing anything else), but this time I didn't unplug it as soon as I realized it. I left it plugged in the whole time. Everything still worked after that, so thank god for that haha.
Same here, thas why I run linux.
Man do I wish the "Use whatever you want and know best" could be applied to everyone.
It doesn't?
@@mikeexits Oh, i did phrase it wrong. What i meant was that people should have a better knowledge of the OS(Win/Mac) and DAW they already have before considering making a switch. And if a switch were to occur, may it be for your own benefit. At least that's how I see it.
@@LeCVSUVL Ah yeah, that makes sense. The best equipment and software for you right now is what you already have right now.
@@mikeexits YES INDEED!
someday can you tell us your skincare secrets
It's the magical Asian genes. Some don't turn old for a very long period of time and then get sudden old in their 50s. I'm also a bit jelly
@@johnnyterra1309 that's very true they don't get old but then all of sudden turned old ....
@@johnnyterra1309 try 70’s
Some of your points are good, but a mac that is more expensive for the same specs as a PC will not last twice as long since you can upgrade the PC down the line, so the mac will become outdated far sooner and cost you even more money to buy an entirely new computer.
Exactly
I disagree. My mac has been going for 8 years now, and every windows computer I had died after 2, so even though this cost twice as much, I saved three times the price of any windows.
@@samwilkes-green4835 your brand new computer died after 2 years?? Umm, i dont think thats a windows issue, something you did.
@@vickerfinal you say that, but the Mac still laster 8
@@samwilkes-green4835 Sure it is.
this popped up after i watched a video about a musician complaining why apple products (specifically the newer ones) are so bad for music lol
well i guess you're getting the full range of opinions
link?
It's like how on every music video, there's some moron complaining about the number of dislikes.
@@casualintrovert207 Rick Beato probably
lol nice
In my opinion.
Whatever you can work with, is the best for any job...
It’s not specifically ‘which’ tools, it’s whatever lets you get the job done.
I use everything and anything.
You are way too reasonable for a Mac vs. PC discussion
I 100% agree. I used iMacs in Elementary school, PCs in Middle and High school, and Macs again in college for my major. I'm just more comfortable with PC.
Cunningham's law: "Whatever you can work with, is the best for any job" Let's help Andrew build a hackinto sh!
I think in Mac vs PC you have to consider how Core Audio performs against ASIO drivers too. My sense is that Core Audio can usually deliver lower latency with the same audio interface. If anybody knows that this is or isn’t true, love to hear it.
Correct
Not just latency, but (as Andrew mentioned), having Core Audio's ability to create aggregate devices is huge for me.
This was my experience too
Not true at all. CoreAudio was the defacto go-to forever and ASIO was a joke until about 2012, when I saw an enormous boon and ASIO actually began taking their programming seriously.
Currently, I can run full sessions in my DAW at 48KHz, with ASIO set to a buffer size of 64 samples with NO underruns.
I'd like to see you accomplish this feat on CoreAudio.
I saw a few tests performed on Dawbench website and they concluded the contrary.
I think your Mac/PC comparison is based on some obsolete data. I personally use Windows since 6 years for live shows running live keys and backing tracks. So I know the highs and lows very well 😋
I have never had a single virus in my life. And I don't use a virus scanner except for integrated security that ist part of Windows 10. Studies have shown that Windows is very secure without needing a third-party virus program. The biggest loop hole has always been and is still the user himself.
I don't understand why people still complain about updates on Windows. The update management has been no problem since Windows 10 arrived. You can set active hours when no updates should be made. And even if an update after a reboot occurs, it takes under a minute in 99 % of the times. And whenever updates require a reboot, you get well informed in your current Windows session beforehand.
Stabilitywise, yes, Macs are a little bit better. I have a MacBook as second device. It isn't perfectly stable but still is a little bit better.
I think the stability of your machine depends heavily on how you manage your live set, your files and peripherals. Only a little bit on your platform. You should use your computer for music stuff only If you use it for the stage.
The only thing that ist important to consider at the moment when deciding between Windows and Mac is M1. Windows world is working on it but has no answer yet.
And to be fair, Microsoft sells their own laptop lineup where they control software and hardware. The Surface devices are very capable and solid.
i would always go with a windows rig no matter what. the price of a apple product is terrible so is repairs and pricing of those. even if stuff breaks you can still sell a pc product for pretty good money little bit harder with macbooks since people will try haggle you to death to make a good buck. windows is as stable as macbook. i will not argue for live performances though i have tried playing 2 times only live with a old lenovo laptop no problem just turn off windows updates and stay off the internet.
@@fredeatstheworld308 these guys earn lots of cash, they can easily buy apple products. You and me on the other hand...
@@umiloyayi i can afford apple products but i don't feel like being ripped off
@@fredeatstheworld308 if you think you're being ripped off by buying an apple product then you don't have that enoigh money to get rid of that feeling. In short, you are not as wealthy as these guys.
@@umiloyayi there is exactly the same parts in a apple computer as a windows you pay for the logo and the ios.
In the early 2000's, some people in the audio tech world (e.g. Waves) were open about the need for the industry to free themselves of being controlled by Apple and Microsoft. Linux was waiting in the wings, and now in 2021, there are lots of high end audio gear that runs Linux internally. But ... everyone's desire to use their regular laptop/desktop phone for their music production work largely prevented it from being similarly adopted in more front-end stuff.
End-users could have been working on machines specifically built for music, with no compromises. But instead they're all still stuck on operating systems and hardware platforms that are an endless series of compromises when it comes to this goal.
Meanwhile, I'll keep writing software that works on all 3 non-mobile OS's (Linux, Windows, macOS) and users can decide for themselves.
Not true - Linux for desktop simply won't establish itself in probably the next decade as it is too technical to use for most users - or too dumbed down for proper professional use. And also its hard to go against the established.
@@nolram you can't cite any evidence for this at all. It's just anecdotal impressions. I've been working on Linux since 1995, and neither of the things you've said here about the platform are true. What is true is that nobody wanted to buy a new system when they were told they could do music on their existing Windows/macOS systems, and so none of the companies involved were willing to go down that path. Needless to say, you now have mixing consoles, devices like the NI Maschine, Ableton Push, network audio processing systems like Waves Soundgrid, all running Linux internally, but essentially none of those companies have Linux in a user-facing sense. The industry could have said in (say) 2000 "nope, these general purpose OS's are the wrong platform for us, if you want to use our software you need to buy a BlahBlahBox(TM)". But nobody had the guts for that, even though in many senses it was true.
@@nolram "too technical to use for most users"
Right. Most users use only browser - and Linux is more then capable of that
Music producers are technical people - and installing everything requires knowledge and fiddeling on every OS.
And it's not even hard to install stuff
@@die_lokki287 I didn't mean that - for most users Linux won't establish simply because noone else they know is using it, and I HIGHLY doubt most music producers are technical enough to work with Linux as their daily driver. For the UI-focused generation this is Linux is just... Not there yet. Installing things via, for example, APT is great of course - but still a bit too technical for most users that aren't developers, sysadmins (and similar) or just quite technical when it comes to that stuff.
@@nolram Most of the things can be easily done via GUI
Excellent video! Despite 100% being a Windows person, I've also hackintosh'd my machine, and I'm amazed to see so much of my music hardware and software just run so much faster and more smoothly on OS X -- even when not running on an Apple machine!
That said, I do want to point out one somewhat important difference between the platforms that falls squarely in Windows's favor: backwards and forwards compatibility. A relative of mine is a professional music producer and, of course, uses a Mac, and I also have a roommate that uses a Mac Mini for iOS development -- and a common complaint I hear from both has to do with OS versioning. Software on OS X always targets specific versions of the operating system, due to frequent changing of APIs and feature support. It's a typical scenario on OS X to see a new version release, but needing to wait months or longer for developers to confirm/update their apps to run properly on the new OS X version. We see these issues crop up repeatedly -- 32-bit executables becoming unsupported; signing/notarizing of apps becoming required; and eventually phasing out of x86_64 emulation on Apple's new ARM devices. (Those are the big ones, but each release causes some varying amount of incompatibility on Mac OS.) This requires app developers to take positive action to update apps... and if the developer is no longer around or the software is no longer supported, you might be stuck between not updating your OS, or losing access to your applications.
Microsoft, on the other hand, pays close attention to backwards and forwards compatibility. Being focused on enterprise scenarios, they need to be able to assure large companies that the internal software they were running 20 years ago will still run just fine today on modern Windows 10 machines. Even drivers -- a friend was trying to set up an ancient MIDI keyboard/audio interface combo with some fancy amp emulation features processed through the driver, for which some software was last released for Windows 7... and once he got all the correct bits of software installed, it just worked. Any time my Windows machine updates, I never have to think twice about whether my programs and hardware will continue working -- including, for example, my copy of Adobe Creative Suite CS5.5 that I bought ten years ago. But if I was on a Mac, I would never be able to move past Mojave, as Catalina removed support for 32-bit apps (CS5.5, except for Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Photoshop, is 32-bit only).
This is almost certainly not a huge concern for folks who make a living from their creative pursuits, as these folks would probably just consider software upgrades part of the cost of doing business. But for others, that can be a real hassle and a source of unexpected frustration, entirely at the whims of Apple's and third party developers' decisions to deprecate and remove, or continue to support, functionality and software.
Choosing between the OS's is a complicated decision! This is just another wrinkle in the story ;)
The thing I like about windows is that I can be playing doom eternal, Tab out of the game, load up Ableton, and play along to the soundtrack with as many effects as I want and I don't get performance drops in either program.
Yo what kind of hardware you got
@@wang2194 I got a Asus Strix Z370-f motherboard, Intel i7 8700k CPU, 32 gigs of corsair ram and a GTX 1060.
I boot from a Samsung NVMe 960 Evo (highly recommended, they load every sample/ softsynth preset instantly) and I just installed steam and any games on The cheapest Western Digital mechanical hard drive I could find.
Qemu KVM OSX
That's not an OS thing, that's to do with hardware
@Piyath Who said i was? I just like making music because it's fun. Idk why playing a videogame would disqualify someone from being a musician tho cuz Mr. Bill plays counterstrike and he collaborates with andrew lol
Linux, here. There are other options besides Mac or Windows.
What distro? For me, it's Mint Debian on my general purpose laptop, and Ubuntu Studio on my production box.
Yes! I do audio for living on Manjaro Linux and I make tutorials about it on YT. I'm happy to see so many Linux users here!
About to convert over to Arch and use a Hypervisor to run MacOs and windows
Yes, Linux is still a much better option than Windows for better latency. ASIO fixes quite a bit in Windows, but other OSes don't need such 3rd party fixes. It's still funny to see Mac/Linux users ask where ASIO drivers are for their computers, though. ;-)
I really want to use Linux as someone who values privacy, but I've invested too much in plugins and software that won't all run on Linux (Ableton Suite, Hitfilm Pro, Arturia V Collection, NI Komplete, tons of Puremagnetik plugins, etc.)
I've used a pc for most of the years I've been making music and decided to get a second hand macbook pro 2 years ago and it has been the single best computer for making music. I never want to go back to a pc. Even a little thing like installing a plugin is just so easy. On windows I had to install it into the right folder, then open my daw, rescan it, find out why it isn't showing up, juggle the files between folders and troubleshoot for a while until I finally got it set up. That didn't happen always, but when it did, it was really annoying. On the other hand when installing a plugin on a mac, it's just installing in, opening my daw, refreshing the plugin list and it's all good to go
i think its worth noting that the version(s) of android that come preloaded on most smartphones are bloated and locked down as hell. android itself is pretty okay for audio (with the right software), but the companies that make phones are... terrible.
samsung is the worst of apple for android devices
Glad to read that. Things are changing also, as Google is putting more and more pressure on OEMs so they deliver first class audio experiences on Android devices. By the way, we make a music making app for Android, if you want to check it out, here is the link: meteaurestudios.github.io
@@meteaurestudios Github, eh? Sick! I love it! Best of luck, dev friend!
And he included a lot of super old or budget phones in the data. Like the HTC 10? When did that come out? 2015? 2013?
@@ChrisD__ he did also include apple products since then, so that point is kinda moot
Just to quote "if the product is twice the expense and lasts double as long the value is the same" I really had a hard time understanding this.. yes you get more lifetime for your money. But if I buy the same specs on another device that lasts me half as long and then another. The specs of the second device would be more up to date than the device that lasts twice as long.. idk how I feel about this statement.. can someone share their opinion about this?
the problem is you're not defining "lasts" in the quote. if the product that is twice as expensive "lasts twice as long", that would imply that the specs at purchase are adequate/equal to those of the second device in the other scenario. in the case of a Mac/iOS vs PC/Android, a lot of the time that tends to be true. on paper, a lot of Android devices have better specs than older iOS devices, but the level of control that Apple has on the utilization of device resources means they still tend to run better when it comes to actual use.
Pro is newer device would be up to spec with more recent standards. Con is the amount of time you have to spend setting up the newer device, reinstalling software/plugins & migrating data.
my personal nitpick with the value section is the massive amount of options in the android market means last years flagships have huge discounts, and there's a lot of bargains to be grabbed
The quote is true for phones/tablet because iPhone from 6 years ago still gets the latest software update like the latest iPhone..if we’re talking computers there’s a few more factors
I’m not sure about this either. Tech isn’t upgraded as often as usual with PC. And even then, if something goes wrong, it’s easier to fix than Mac. Mobile, all phones are pretty similar for upgrade and repair frequencies.
As far as build quality goes and components that go into the machine though you're quite off. Yes, some PCs have absolutely junk quality, and some are made even better than Apple computers (look at the Dell XPS range for instance), so that's not really a Mac vs PC issue, it's a Mac vs other specific manufacturers. As far as components go a Mac is also absolutely filled with third party components. It's a bit of a stretch to claim that Apple makes all the components that go into their computers. They contract, just like most manufacturers, with third party component manufacturers for parts to populate their boards and machines.
I'm not a PC fanboy, nor am I a Mac fanboy. I absolutely abhor OSX, I think it's among the worst user interfaces I've worked on, and goes out of its way to hide essential things from the user. I am a designer, I have worked in user experience, and it really feels like Apple have stagnated when it comes to design development over the last few years. With Jony Ive leaving Apple I hope that maybe there will be a revitalization within Apple and they'll step up their game again. In the meanwhile other manufacturers have immensely stepped up their hardware game, and Microsoft have put in a lot of work into Windows 10 to actually streamline it and shake off the idea that PCs are complex and harder to use, while still being ever so powerful and easy to customize under the hood. Every system has its issues, it's about picking and choosing from what things you can and cannot live with. 🙂
Yes and Apple is not that cool as Andrew says about durability. For example they reduce the CPU cooling in order to reduce its max speed and lifespan. The same CPU in a well ventilated PC can be 20% more efficient than in a MacBook air.
good points, but talking about user interface i think it’s really dependent on personal preference. I cant stand windows and i’m willing to pay even thrice the price just to stay away from it lmao
@@apotheoz9196 I thought exactly the same thing. Not only that, regardless of how long your computer lasts the components will eventually be superseded and become redundant, so why pay massively over the odds for them. I bet in 2012 an i5 3330k with 8gb of RAM and a 500GB hard drive was considered a flying machine 😂
Honestly I have to disagree with a lot of this post:
I'll start with UX. As a contrast to being a designer I am a programmer, I've spent my entire professional career using macs (migrating away from windows during education / personal experience) and every time since that I've tried to significant amounts of time into a project on windows I've near enough lost my mind. Using windows feelings messy, laggy, and unresponsive compared to mac os. I do 90% of my window changes/navigation through hotkeys and everything just feels ehh when I do it on windows, whether it be switching applications or windows in applications. It just doesn't work as well. Spotlight search on mac (which I use to launch all my applications) is so much less intrusive than than the windows search menu, and you don't have to deal with clunky animations to use it. There is also (for developers) the huge advantage of mac using unix; but this really only applies to developers so if you don't know what this means you can probably ignore it!
I will say the Dell XPS range is pretty good; but in my opinion its one of very few examples of where PC hardware has actually caught up with macs, they finally have really good trackpads (something which macs have had for years, I still chose trackpads over mice for my work), and the built quality is excellent. The one area they did exceed macs (in my opinion) is keyboard, but the new m1 macs have finally migrated back from butterfly switches so that is no longer as big an issue. The XPS line up also pretty much matches macs in price, so it really comes down to OS preference. From a hardware perspective, I'd be just as happy with either.
I still have and use a windows laptop as well; I can't say in the last 3 years I've felt there's been any meaningful improvements to the UX, and things like the settings / control panel for windows 10 is still completely unusable both practically and from a user experience / design perspective.
I think it's important that people pick what works for them. I'm resistant to mac hate; for me and many professionals (and to be transparent, a lot of us don't pay for the devices we use for work) they provide a much improved experience over what we could achieve on windows (My next port of call as a developer would be Linux). If you're relatively comfortable and happy with your current device, whether it be windows or mac, and a UA-cam video, or comments are swaying you either way, save your money and the environment by trying to make your current device last as long as possible!
@@OllysCoding "I've spent my entire professional career using macs"
I've spent like 90% of my professional career using PCs (try finding good CAD software that runs on a Mac), and while you do bring up some good points, I do disagree with many as well.
"Messy, laggy, and unresponsive". I couldn't disagree more. It may depend on your system, naturally, but I'm running a four year old Dell XPS with an i7 processor in it for my professional machine (which includes video editing as well, which is one of the more taxing things you can do) and while some software runs slow due to me asking more from the machine than it can provide Windows 10 itself absolutely flies. I rarely have any issues whatsoever with it, and my uptime between reboots are usually counted by the month. Maybe you have had bad luck with your machines, I don't know, but your complaint seems to be more fitting to pre-Windows 10 generations than it is right now.
The main issue with the settings in Windows 10, and I willingly own up to hating this, is the division of settings (or sometimes mirroring of settings) between the Control Panel and Settings app. They should simply drop the old remnants of the Windows 8 era and consolidate all of the system central settings into one area instead of obfuscating it all over the place. That is absolutely an issue, but for day to day use for a regular user it's not that big of a deal. Most people aren't going to have to venture into those settings on any regular basis.
The Windows search menu is lacking (file search et al, but easily rectified with third party software), however the Start bar search bar is at par with Spotlight search for launching programs. Switching between software, or windows in applications, I don't agree is neither here nor there between Windows and OSX. I regularly work through different programs on a regular basis, across two screens, and using several desktops. Switching in between all of this in Windows 10 has never been easier.
As for developers and Macs it completely depends on what you're developing, so I don't really agree with that being that big of an argument either. It's like saying that a bigger shovel is better, when in reality what you're probably wanting is a shovel that's apt for the hole you're digging. A developer should choose which platform is better for them, and depending on what you're working on that could be either PC or Mac...unless of course you're developing iOS apps, then you need a Mac. Heck, back when I was running a Mac I found myself booting up Windows on it simply because OSX couldn't do what I wanted it to do. When it comes to more specialized third party software from smaller developers you're also more likely to find it running Windows than OSX.
The XPS line matches the cheaper Macs in price, absolutely, but it's not tit for tat. The hardware you get for the price in the XPS outmatches a similarly priced Mac. You're going to be paying a lot more for the unibody and the little Apple logo than you actually get back in hardware.
Granted UX improvements in Windows have somewhat stagnated in the last few years, as there hasn't been any major updates to the platform. However, in contrast UX development in OSX has been stagnant for the last 10+ years, focusing on changing the look rather than working on the actual UX. Innovation in Apple has ground to almost a halt. I think part of this is because in the past Apple was a computer company, which then ventured into phones. Now they're a phone company that also makes computers. When something like 50% of their revenue comes from phones alone it's not so strange that there's where most their effort is going to go, and a small income post like computers will languish in comparison.
I don't hate Macs, they fulfil their position in the marketplace. I hate mindless fanboys, I hate people who try to push you down because of some feigned superiority of their platform. We see this from both sides of the divide.
OMG why would you even start this ancient and wildly incorrect flame war again? Seriously, anyone referencing PC or Mac info from more than 5 years ago has ZERO idea wtf they are talking about.
You mean _every_ hater out there? :D
Seriously, I still hear people complaining about macs using _proprietary memory._
when you're talking about a desktop pc in comparison to macs. pcs will probably last longer because
1. some macs run at their thermal limit 24/7 which could make the parts not last as long
2. in general pcs are way easier to upgrade
My 2011 MBP was running like close to 100 celsius almost all the time and it lasted me for about 8 years (before the GPU died because of some factory error) - I would probably use it to this day if it didn't die. Great piece of hardware - if you clean the dust often enough, you should have no problems with longetivity of the device.
@@alexlubinski7795 That's not due to thermal, that's actually due to a software bug. Believe it or not, you have to reset your Vram/Pram and other stuff sometimes, less Mac OS believe it needs to kick the fans in 100% and overheat for no reasons.
First statement is utterly false
Refer to Filthy Frank's video on the matter for further information.
I didn't know he had a video for this topic. What video is it?
ah yes, the best of arguments
papa franku's macbook was right... technology destroy our lives... 😔
WAKE ME UP
As long as I can make music and play porn its NASA to me
I use Cubase 10 in Windows 10. With intel i9 and 32 gb ram. Really smooth and everyhing just works. No problems at all, running heavy projects and vsts. From my experience, in 2021 you can have a super powerfull pc without having to spend 5k us, and it's rock solid. Again, it's just my experience. Cheers!
and what's more, 32 gb of ram is more than enough. you can build a powerful daw computer for less than $600 with a APU chip or a low profile gpu.
Oh, and it’s kind of funny to hear that some people still argue that back in the days no pc was capable, so they still decide to use macs - as if nothing has changed ever since. PCs are more reliable now so it is possible to use them and they are not as expensive.
I think that was more to explain how the Mac became the industry standard in the first place.
....missed the point ...it was just to show macbooks had a headstart but now pc has closed that gap
@@TribalSMD Since when did mac become industry standard? lmao
@@pedrosilvaproductions Have you seen the video?
When talking about "quality" of Macs, methinks Andrew has not heard of Louis Rossmann.
Or hackintosh, evidently. Should literally be re-titled "Why macOS Is Better For Music(Core Audio)"
My hackintosh outperforms a mac pro 2019 and 2/3 the cost and runs the same except sleep. If set up correctly, that's the only thing that may not work which isn't much of an issue for studios.
Opencore guides for building a mac using PC parts has gotten much easier and basically idiot proof.
The dortania opencore has compatibility lists so not much can go wrong when building a mac on a budget.
@@JT4GM4K3R except the big one...good thunderbolt support. I almost switched to hackintosh a few times, but the thunderbolt support is a huge issue since I use an Apollo and all my external SSD’s and HD’s are thunderbolt.
this
@@magicmark3309 [Solved] Gigabyte Designare motherboard as well as GC-Titan Ridge enables thunderbolt on PC hardware.
You can even use the Titan ridge on any motherboard by shorting pins 3 and 5 on the internal TB connector. Hackintoshes can use thunderbolt with a generated SSDT. There's plenty of guides. Just google (Thunderbolt hackintosh plug and play)
As a developer, Thank YOU for putting out a video like this. As a Canadian, keep on rocking man. As a fan, love your content cheers dude.
counter argument: Big Sur, and all the other MacOS updates that break music software
No different than with windows. Vista nuked all music software at the time
vista was in 2006
big sur was last year
@@DylanParisMusic that was just one example the popped into my head. If you’re doing any kind of pro audio work you shouldn’t be updating your OS as soon as it comes out
I hear you, but you can't buy an M1 mac without Big Sur on it, so it's weird to me to say Apple is the end all be all for music right now
Love my iPad for music production. On the other hand I built a Ryzen 9, 8 core tower with the performance of the $6,000 base cheese grater Mac Pro.2.0 for $1,500.
Can you send me the components. I need to build a computer soon.
If you bought the baseline MacBook Air ($1,000) it would still outperform the $6,000 cheese grater and you’d still be saving tons of money.
Lars Spargur how so?
@@listeningtoreason5499 M1
@@larsspargur97 I doubt the m1 integrated graphics can beat a dual vega graphics in most cases.
Windows user here. I'm so used to the workflow so I don't see me using a Mac soon. . . BUT it makes sense that the quality is (supposedly) higher when you limit the customization and choices of a product or available products. So thank you and curse you ❤😂
mm quality also can scale with competition, and you see a whole lot more competition on the android/windows side than you do apple. In the end I feel like it cancels out, as you can get much higher performance out of a windows machine at the expense of a small amount of simplicity
I like to say that, compared to Windows, Mac is as stable as a brick, and just as flexible, too.
@@SynthApprentice 😂
@@SynthApprentice yea that's my main problem about apple Produkts and that they are usually way to overpriced
@@SynthApprentice that’s for sure
What about every DAW not being able to upgrade with every Mac system update?
Myth
@@cjgoeson I've seen tons of "do no upgrade X while on Big Sur" posts.
@@F1NG3RS that’s usually just until plug-in manufacturers released updates to ensure smooth transition for professionals who can’t risk downtime. It’s not a case of most people being stuck on old software indefinitely.
@@cjgoeson seemed to be worth mentioning. He brings up great reasons for Macs. I just see their own ecosystem stepping on it's own toes a lot.
Live 11 runs flawless on Big Sur, even on the m1 chip.
Edit: and all my plugins are working too
For me, I would suggest any starting music producer or musician to go with windows rather than spending top dollar on Apple, Here are few reasons why:-
1. It's cheaper
2. You can get your plugins illegally if you choose to (I'm not encouraging piracy, but it's your wish)
3. Older software support and Longer lasting: I can still open projects 4-5 Years old which has 32bit plugins, even while running the latest Windows 10, I can always use the 32 bit version of a plugin. I can still use a 10 year old PC to make music, with the latest OS installed or latest version of DAW but older plugins, something that Apple is not consistent with. Older stuff mostly refuses to work on Mac
3. Highly customizable hardware, you can choose to have 15 USB A ports with 2 ThunderBolt and 2 USB C, whatever you wish, directly to the motherboard without any powered dongle, plus if you want to do videos you can just add in a graphics card down the line, or upgrade the RAM by yourself if you are heavy on Kontakt, no need to visit the place you bought from or the manufacturer most of the times.
4. If anything goes wrong at hardware level, eg: some hard disk failure, power surge, lightning, high voltage, water damage, etc, your data that was on the internal disk usually remains safe and you can pull the data out of it to another PC or another Mac even if the PC is completely dead and damaged
5. Freedom to choose whatever to want to do, PC is just like a tool which can do anything you want for cheaper, If you want to make or learn 3D Animation, the same PC will work with minor upgrades or no upgrades at all.
For me, I would suggest not comparing a portable Mac with a tower PC. Unless you're able to, say, build 15 USB ports into a ThinkPad.
Half of your points are BS, and the other half are just ignorant. The one that's half-right is #1: you'll always find a PC that's cheaper than the cheapest Mac. I'm not sure this is something to brag about, though.
Despite the fact that I really dislike Apple as a company, you make some compelling points, and I appreciate the explanation.
apple makes great products, but i agree with you, their buisness model is really not fun
I totally appreciate Andrew making this video, such a contentious issue and I feel he did (fairly) well staying unbiased. But I can't help but feel he's been tainted by sub-par PC systems and is using that experience as his basis for opinion, which is totally fair.
I've used around 7 Macs for production, and not one of them has been a smooth time. Crashes, lagging and freezing all over the place (one Mac couldn't even handle 30 channels hahaha), whereas on my (custom built) PC, I've had 2 crashes in the 5 years I've owned it and regularly push 250 channels no problem.
Considering music production requires a substantial file structure in place, MacOS can't hold a candle to Windows
Music production needs serious horsepower, which Windows dominates in price to performance
Quite literally the only edge MacOS has is Core Audio, which I'm insanely jealous of! But spending 2x (sometimes 3x) the amount needed for equivalent hardware is a hard no from me.
The problem is, computing in general is a very anecdotal thing. I for instance have swapped to Mac for my IT work and it's completely changed my life and the way I work, I'm so much more productive. It's extremely circumstantial and not much research or surveying is out there for that experience to get a more general view. I think the best way to put it is just, they're both different, they both have pros and cons, it's your choice what you use. That's it.
Don't forget the: Download our new OS X!! It has this and that new feature, look how cool it looks!!! (Tons of plugins and daws stop working unless you pay for the newest versions). I would only buy a Mac nowadays for the core audio and for the plug and play without drivers thing, but for me, that's not worth the price diference.
@@Thegbear Oh 100% dude, what is one persons experience might be the opposite of someone elses, and thats absolutely cool.
I'm glad you found a platform that works for you and your workflow, I've heard that MacOS is very good for IT work; just about every engineer ive ever seen uses MacOS for their work (though I heard deploying workplace Macs is a nightmare haha).
And yeah totally agreed, both have their pros and cons for sure, and its whatever trade-off that you prefer that dictates your choice. If it works for you, it works! :D
@@olliejarvis1200 oddly enough I find deploying macs in a workplace to be the easiest thing in the world haha, they're so easy and nice to work with for IT, even in Microsoft hybrid environments as there's a really simple remote desktop/workspace app.
I think this video is heavily about ios vs android since he recently released an app...not pc vs macs, he barely touched about that
as a Logic user.........it’s not even really a debate for me lmao. also i’m running a current version of Logic Pro X on a 2010 macbook pro so i can’t really complain
I have a 2013 mac and can’t update to the latest version of logic.
Next you're going to tell us you don't poop, huh? 😉
@@danpreston564 Yes you can. Not the M1 version but last I checked, the last version for Intel chips can run on Mojave, and I boot Mojave in less than 10 seconds on my 2012 Macbook Pro.
@@jas_bataille I run 10.12 Sierra. Even that is too much for my iMac. The last update that ran acceptably was Yosemite. I stopped being able to update logic on Sierra ages ago.
"It just works", unless you install the latest OS and external hardware doesn't work anymore
This is a mood. I’ve had two Tascam interfaces stop being supported on Mac OS as they won’t release new drivers. On windows I can still run legacy drivers and they work flawlessly
No backup no sorry
Android's audio latency has improved by 3x since that chart
rick beato has left the chat
Right 😂
Doesn't he use a mac anyway though lmao
@@renoutlaw8371 he made a video about throwing away his apple products I think
@@dizzoooo-l4p I've never actually watched that even though it's his most popular video so idk what the actual context is
He’s still an apple person
It's funny how there's still this "Mac is better than PC for music" idea cause everyone's thinking about average producers, totally ignoring the fact that, for instance, in the movie industry (soundtracks, heavily using orchestras libraries and many many instances of Kontakt and plugins) people tend to use PC workstation, especially with more than a PC connected via VEP. Also, I respectfully disagree on the live performance bit of the video. For many years I have seen PC workstations used in live broadcast show and world tour of big stars like Rihanna and Beyonce. Of course, those are smooth machine with a dedicated BIOS, not the computer you randomly buy on Amazon. And don't even get me started on audio post-production. Sorry but no, when it comes to high performance it is always PC. Mac has one advantage: everyone can buy it and it will do good. That doesn't mean that a professional will find the best performance on MacOS machines...
Yeah. This video just felt like 100 percent justification why there is no android app. It's very biased and not looking from all perspectives
The funny thing about the live shows is, a surprising number of desks run some form of Windows or sometimes Linux.
Also with live shows you have backups. No one is running just one machine
Well larger ones anyway
Hmm not sure about that most of them seem to be primarily operared on macbook pros ,at least from what i know
@@aarohanyt7374 I think he's referring to the audio and lighting desks themselves. A lot of them run on Linux or Windows. And most media servers these days are Windows based
I think most desks run Linux, because it's way better suited for embedded systems.
Though I do audio production on Linux at my day job as well. And I make tutorials on YT about it :)
Hey Andrew, Overall great points and I like the video. Computers are tools. Use the correct tool for the job. There are a couple points I take issue with.
I absolutely disagree with Apple hardware being more reliable. I work at a place with 50,000+ computers and I have seen way more catastrophic hardware failures from Mac when they account for probably 10% of the total computers in the environment. Windows PCs can also be repaired cheaply which is an entire other topic, but the takeaway is Apple is very anti-consumer in their repair practices. I think most people would agree those practices should be illegal if they were educated on them.
I also think a lot of people are comparing a $500 Walmart special to a $1600 Macbook when they do a comparison because much like Android vs iOS, Windows has endless possibilities of what can be inside your computer and many people do not know what they're buying or how to configure it.
Knowing how to use your tools is important and I can confidently state this is an issue on both platforms. I tend to find that MacOS will coddle the users to the point where they come up with some very very bad practices though. Windows will let you know how it feels about you doing those kinds of things way earlier. This can be good or bad for either party depending on if you want reliability or proficiency.
Overall great video though. Thumbs up.
He mainly talks about portable devices such as phones and tablets. The latency issue is VERY obvious and Apple is the clear winner. Stationary computers is a different situation. I am also working on Windows computers, so in that regard I can agree with you.
@@jerryj.7905 yeah my 2017 surface laptop has way more latency with ableton than my 2009 macbook pro with garageband.
It's true. I try and make music on my android and the latency makes it impossible to keep a rhythm. My friend can play synth on garage band with barely any latency and velocity control.
i use linux for my music production.. and i will never look back.. if some software is not compatible, well, its like it didnt exist for me...
Same.
I re-reviewed everything I need. And my dependencies to other people, because peer pressure and team work sometimes forces me to use the same software as they use. And I found out that I can be free, so I moved to Linux.
Especially being in pandemic, having less often talk with friends helps me to develop a habit that is independent and less influenced by other people. Although that also have some negative effect on mental health but that's a different topic.
My main takeaway from the comments is that there seem to be way more people making music on Linux than I thought, and that fucking rules. I do wonder how many people would switch over if a native Linux version of whatever DAW they're using was available. There's so few reasons to use Windows for me, but music is sadly one of them and I hope that will change.
Really surprised by the many Linux mentions in the comments too. As a not-quite-new Linux user, it really warms my heart. :)
Bitwig + LinVst offers a very decent experience. (although LinVst's a bit clunky to use)
I'd do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I'm stuck on Windows cause I've invested in too many plugins exclusively running here.
@@scarletdawnmusic No reason why you can't use both!
@@electron8262 There's also yabridge
When it comes to the money I'd say the numbers are a bit off. Many apps that are paid on apple don't have a single free alternative, forcing the user to pay. The Apple store is strongly influenced by Apple focused on revenue. The Google play store allowes for a lot more freedom from developers offering many advantage for the user like: free apps.
Very true!
I think you missed the point... developers would be more inclined to have a premium product on a service without feeling the need to create a free alternative. Just because a free app is advantageous for the user, doesn't mean the developer would feel its advantageous for themselves. Also I would point out that the focus on revenue would push more premium content on the apple store, just because it would make more money since there is a market for quality programs.
@@scardon1940 Yeah, I don’t see the Flip developers putting out an ad supported version for example.
The thing you mentioned is true but thats not the point !
If the devs want to make the app paid , they do it ! It ensures their work pays off and they can yield the reward
If the devs decide to make it free , they have to find alternatives (ad,inapppurchaes etc)
Basically the devs decide what they want to do so the blame doesnt fall on anyone
@@aarohanyt7374 Yes agreed but Apple does not allowed for in app purchases and alike that are not in line with their policy. (Epic games vs Apple is actually all about that) This in return creates a lot more revenue for Apple, when we look at Android many great apps might be incredible profitable but we don't see the numbers in the Google play stores revenue because they are not part of the apps revenue stream except for being on the Play store itself.
A: Make android app or B: convert them to Apple ecosystem. B.
Love this, many great points but I have been around too many broken Macbooks to fully buy into the notion that in general, they are better build quality. I'm impressed at your clarity on anecdotal evidence!
Keep up the good work!
I really like the control Linux gives me. Also the stability is way better then windows, and personally it’s even more stable than macOS.
Bitwig?
This is just one of many reasons I'm considering switching from PC to Linux.
I have had the opposite experience on desktop. On servers Linux is king.
Linux is stabe only once you understand how some things work. To expect everyone can be bothered to learn that is way too optimistic.
Mostly agree, but I use all three. Linux is most flexible, but I wouldn’t call it more stable. Ultimately, I’d like to see more music software compatibility for Linux. One thing is clear, Windows 10 is horrendous.
The only thing I don't agree with in this video is the "longevity". Having been a PC user in a MAC dominated world (art school and beyond) I have actually seen most people's macs start to have issues within a few years and be almost unusable in about 5. Now, you can definitely get much worse results on PC but with some research and conscientious buying you can easily double that on a PC. I mean, my main work machine is 10 years old and works just fine (there were some minor upgrades for performance) and the only real reason I want to upgrade at this point is just for the raw performance bump....
I think a lot of people just don't treat their computers well regardless of the OS. I have a Mac that is a decade old still running like day 1. Only gave me one single major issue in the past that was fixed right away with an update. I've lost count on how many PCs I had to fix for friends.
Not to sound falsifying but the mac my dad passed me after using for 8 years still kicks strong
I produce on Linux and the only thing that really annoys me tome to time is wine. It really could be a little more user friendly.
I think the best way to make music on Linux is using native plug-ins.
Recently Vital has been released - it's as good or even better than Serum and works on Linux out of the box. Has been open-sourced recently too :)
@@unfa00 Vital got a Linux version and became open source? Best news I've heard all year.
@@unfa00 There's no link to the source code of Vital on their website.
@@luzidd7414 Strange .. but here it is: github.com/mtytel/vital
My only issue with wine is midi. Somehow it can never see more than 16 midi ports, which just seems arbitrary and ridiculous (just all my physical devices combined is more than 16 i/o ports).
My laptop runs with window and has never crashed and besides me pushing it to the limits with a ton of plugins, it has never gave me any issue
I think the conclusion here is: "apple users are rich". To me that only means that the bar for entry is way higher for anyone to even start doing music production on them.
If you use Free and Open Source Software you can make music on a computer you found in the trash.
Having the funds to buy apple gear doesn't mean you have the creativity or skills to make better music either.
Yes but also no? You gotta have money to get apple products, but if you're getting more experienced and doing live events it seems like the more reliable platform to go for.
Regardless I think Andrew concluded with a "Apple is exceptionally better on mobile, marginally better on computers". So if you are a more serious music producer, it could give you that edge.
For me I'll always be a PC fan but I think he shone a very interesting light on the facts alone, and each person can interpret that their own way.
@@chevrotain The fact is that you need some serious money to get started making musing on Apple products.
The question remains if that then is "better" for making music. I'd argue that it is not.
The best thing for making music is being able to express yourself creatively regardless of your financial status.
No that’s not the conclusion. The conclusion is if you’re making music with high stakes like a live concert, you need a Mac. If you’re making music at home and have no problem with downtime, crashing and loosing part of your work sometimes you can get a windows machine
@@_DRMR_ yeah I agree, I think you're right but I don't personally believe that's the main takeaway.
If money is an issue, then clearly a non-apple alternative will be better, but if not, you may as well go apple.
@@Xemerius7 hmm I think you're exaggerating how unreliable windows computers really are, they're definitely much closer when it comes to performance, it's just that 1 in 100. Definitely not worth the risk for kanye concerts tho lol!
All fair arguments in my opinion... One thing you didn't go in to though, on the value for money tangent, is that you haven't talked about upgradability in regards these machines (Mac and PC), you can't ignore that in this topic.
i'd say you can mostly ignore it. i bought a 2013 mac pro in 2014. it still doesn't struggle with tons of plugins running. it probably still won't when i get rid of it for an M1 mac. the specs don't really matter if it's doing the job without choking, right? sure, it'd be nice to have an easily upgradeable ssd, but that's about it
I think this video is heavily about ios vs android since he recently released an app...he barely touched about pc vs mac
Repairability more so than upgradability imo.
Apple actively tries to keep users from repairing their devices. If one chip dies, they'll try to sell you a new board close to the price of a new device to push you into upgrading the model altogether.
Independent repair shops have a hard time getting the necessary hard and software to fix stuff - see any Louis Rossmann video on the topic.
People spend more money in the App Store because 1) they are usually wealthier people and 2) you can download apk files on android which means you can side load apps far far easier so you can get cracked apps for free. Also I’m not saying any os is better in fact I’m watching this on an iPad but own an android phone
4) the Devs were probably just familiar with iOS libraries and what not
Lol wealthier?? Wow talk about ridiculous .. Smh...
I've read afew dumb comments on this video, & this is up there... Ios users are Just a lil more ignorant (not wealthier) wen it comes to the way these billing systems operate. Apple charge/plunder MUCH less (around 10%ish per app sale) than google play store (which leaches at LEAST 30% from each app Sale) when it comes to app sales. So in this vid as the host compars sales (behaving as though sales is indicative of product exposure, quality or performance
Yeah but once you put yourself in the dev's perspective you'll never want to develop for android. So even if now it's nice to have Android for .apk, if the trend doesn't change there will be less and less quality apps for Android than there are for iOS over time.
This video really changed my perspective on the Android vs iOS war, gotta say
@@matteodonato3918 dno why it'd change ur perspective unless u weren't aware of how apple & google make their cash thru the app stores ... This video certainly didn't go into that very detrimental detail of biz model.
Big biz always chases the dollar... Some more than most... As for apps & usability, it comes down to the dev.. Sum just have no interest for the simple fact google plunder 30%.. Thing is, that 30% cost can be tax deductible in a number of ways... Be it thru marketing fee write off's, thru to agency /management fees etc.. Many ways that the 30% google fee can be rebated... Tax can be ur friend if u know wtf ur doin with ur biz... So in the long run, claiming a expense to receive a higher return is to the dev benefit...Spesh if they have the same app on multiple platforms... One offsets the other...
At the end of the day, you'll find it's much of a muchness. But as a pro, I can guarantee that u won't find many real professionals using tablets or phones for anything more than just being a hw controller... sure there are those that use mobile apps, obviously, but if ur doin serious paid work with client scrutiny , you'd be using serious equipment or at least learning about it for when you evolve ... Imagine being a customer & ur looking for photography or video for a wedding, having a client pop round to see/hear ur work, & u pop out ur phone or ipad hoping to impress them .. Yeah nah, it's not a good look...
This video is a stereotypical pandering ego-stroke for Apple ( in general) for many reasons. I won't get into it, but hell, all I'm seeing here in this vid is a flag waving exercises(there's a couple) in the hopes of making ios users feel good & confident enough to go out and buy an app which is inferior to Roland's free offering..
Now if I wanted to try get on apple's good side in the hopes of some free gear, & an increase in status by being a sycophant & I had a need to inflate my esteem coz i carry the belief an OS will improve & define my art, my creativity, my skills & my experience, I too would be doing vids like this ... & if I was trying to sell my warez on apples platform, I'd be putting tickets on everything apple has to offer & cash in on ppls confirmation bias.
Its vids like this that annoy me coz i gta counter the misinformation & educate clients & students when they bring up rubbish they saw online...
Imma say this to everyone here...
Ppl, U are not ur gear, don't identify ur art or who u are thru that gear. U are not ur OS ...if you think an OS or tech specs or a product defines u & ur art, then go get psychological help... Being a creative human, don't get hung up or allow the technicals of any particular piece of gear to dictate wtf u should be doin... Or how.. No matter the opinion
@M. de k. is it? how so?
I use windows because I can’t pirate ableton on macos
Me too brother
yes you can 👀
I feel guilty saying this but I have MacOS and you actually can...
Same, haha. But there is a trial version of Ableton 11 for 90 days now so I've been using that.
you can, however a macbook cant have 64 or 128 gigs of RAM which is an issue for some samplers.
7:27 why does this matter. As an app developer you don't have to pay for more people needing to download your app. In the end you should still need to be able to make 1/2 of the amount of sales on android as you do in iOS. not 1/5 as this implies
Big MacOS updates always seem to brick a lot of apps, and devs have to then rush to fix things that Apple broke. Meanwhile jumping from Windows 8 to 10 did not hinder the functionality of any of my programs.
*me playing games made for windowd xp on my win10 laptop*
Never experienced such thing, could you give an example?
This is, in short, bullshit.
I build my own PCs which means I know exactly what’s in it and it can be just as “ready” as a Mac, if not more ready, for my needs. That’s down to the CPU and the type of RAM I want. This also means I can make my PC more powerful than most Macs out of the box and pay as little as half the price. That will be the number one reason I choose PC over Mac. It literally IS the computer I built and I know I’m not paying the Mac Tax for something as rudimentary as ram.
I’m not anti-Apple as I completely agree with you about iOS and have an iPad and an iPhone...but those are very stand alone devices and enjoy the experience the same way I might enjoy working on a groovebox.
Fully agree, for phone Apple is better. But you can build a PC that is way better than a Mac for half or a quarter of the price. I'm not anti-mac as I havea Macbook Pro also, but it costs around the same as my PC which is crazy spec in comparison.
Big Sur broke a solid 1/4 of my plugins and tools and has been incredibly unstable for me.
Every daw and plugin company explicitly said "don't update to big sur until we can make an update for it". If you didn't listen thats on you.
@@hnielsen123 sure speaks to the stability of the OS
@@snaxmiller Stability issues are one thing and doing crap is not something only Apple can do: Microsoft can do that with updates as well. So I would say equal share here.
The other story are OS upgrades. They can include changes how an program can interact with the OS. These are documented normally and the developers should be aware of them - at least they have all information, beta access etc so they can prepare. Some companies are every year surprises about a new MacOS release 🤷♂️
But in general: if you work with your machine, just wait at least 3 months until an OS upgrade. Doesn’t matter if Mac or Windows 10 half year upgrades. Check if there are any known issues and if not and you are really keen on the new stuff: then update.
Have been using Linux for 25 years now, and can't stand using anything else any more. Most of the things I rely on for daily work aren't even possible in Windows, and are extremely inconvenient or impossible in OSX. I recognize that this limits my toolkit for music, but let's be honest -- regardless of OS, the reason people don't make better music isn't because their tools aren't good enough.
@Gekko That's a pretty hardcore switch, diving right into the deep end! Normally for a new user I'd recommend Mint and a more traditional desktop interface.
Me, I'm mostly using Debian, and the interface is ... heavily customized. Sawfish with a bunch of code I made for it, plus a mishmash of various tools I've accumulated over the decades.
For music, I'm mostly just using Reaper to record and arrange clips from hardware synths, plus a little midi daemon I wrote to auto-connect stuff and remap notes.
I've been using Linux since my dual-boot days back in '08. My laptop is running Mint Debian Edition, and my studio box is running Ubuntu Studio.
@Gekko No judgement here... I started with Slackware, and had to compile almost everything from upstream sources, basically doing the job that package maintainers would normally do, to get it all working together on my system. Once I reached the point where I needed to upgrade stuff to get new features, I realized I'd have to do it all over again, and tried some other distros to see if they made it any easier. After trying a few, I settled on Debian sometime in 1997 and have been happy with it ever since.
Have tried a bunch of others, of course... and was involved in making several. But none have really made me want to switch.
Anyway, I just don't often see "recently switched to Linux" and "using Arch and/or Xmonad" in the same sentence. It's cool, just uncommon.
I've been doing music on Arch for a while now, and once your JACK ecosystem is up and running correctly it's an absolute dream. I always forget that having anything-to-anything routing isn't a thing on a lot of systems.
It's also a testimony to how good Linux has become as an everyday operating system that I literally forget I'm running Linux sometimes and accidentally install Windows versions of software out of force of habit. And then use them for quite a while until I realise what I've done, because WINE has become so seamless and reliable these days.
Can you give precise example of things you weren't able to do on windows/mac ? I do work of Linux (developer), but i wouldn't use it right now for personal purposes.
So i'm really interested to know :)
This is way too much generalization to be useful to anyone. If you have an old windows laptop, you should use whatever software is available instead of running to a different platform and buying a new computer
That assumes one already has an old windows laptop.
If you have an old Windows laptop, you may switch to Linux. It doesn't update in the middle of a recording and uses only the necessary ressources. I use updated Ardour with my 2007 laptop and 2007 Firewire audio interface.
@@benoittissier58 To be fair, Windows warns you before it auto-updates. It gives you up to a month and a half I think, if you go into settings and delay the update to the maximum amount of time.
I wish you could just turn it off though (you can in Pro but not Home; I did see someone say something about group policy editor being a solution, though I haven't tried it yet). Every time I update windows my games drop in performance by like 70% and I need to roll back my drivers.
And then theres Martin Garrix who runs Windows on a Macbook
Really that's gross
@@demp11 he run's FL Studio which has been Windows only for a large proportion of it's life. It is not about the OS it is about your setup and what works for you
@Aditya Shah because he would have got a way better performance and battery life if he bought a Windows laptop. Because they way cheaper for there value (except the new M1 macbooks they just insane)
@@Skrabit obviously not that wasn't my point
@Aditya Shah you're joking right? I never said that why do people always have to make things up? My point was that he could have bought a laptop with way more performance and battery life for the same money, or could have spent even more when money isn't the problem and got an absolute top of the line Notebook. On Apple your stuck with what they give you and what they give you is just bad value no matter if you have the money or not.
I want the app Flip not on Android
I want it on Linux
Well, android is Unix, right?
Android is Linux. This is one of the rare occurrences where GNU/Linux is actually a useful distinction.
Have you got a Linux phone ?
@@benoittissier58 well, the kernel is Linux based, so to some degree yes
@@daxvena its based on linux but its not.
I also try to convert apks into linux
And i was deep learning how different the operating system is.
And Android is so much Linux like Mac Os is Linux
The Ecosystem from this Operatingsystem is different.
Problem is if I wanted to get a mac for music, I would use it only for music and idk if that's worth it,,,, gonna steal uni macs and logic for as long as possible
Depends on how much you value it. If you make enough money with your music then it tends to be a no-brainer to have a dedicated machine.
But if you're like me and make less than $20k a year doing work you don't care for (with bills, scammy compulsory insurance, taxes, etc.), it's a no-brainer to have one decent computer that does everything you need it to.
a lot of anecdotal evidence here. As a person who works in the music industry as well, I can say from my side, NOBODY uses macs. honestly, it comes down to preference. Audio interfaces allow latency free input and playback for PCs as well as Macs, which you didn't touch on at all, only Ipads and other handheld devices.
Everybody is using Macs. Are you sure you are working in the music industry? :)
@@fritzsneaker2305 yeah,. I'm sure.
I've been using a pc with ableton for a couple of years and it's been really solid. Literally the only time I've had either of my pc's crash was when I bought new ram and one of the sticks arrived faulty. So I'd say the only thing that really bothers me is the issues with aggregate audio devices, it'd be real nice if someone could figure that out...
After doing home studio recording for 6 years on a powerful enough pc, I decided to get a Mac Mini when the cpu went bad on my pc. I will never go back.
in the end, the only _real_ reasons are the audio latency, paying the programmers more and the fact that you're more comfortable with it. All of those are fair and well enough reasons to do your app. In the end, your product, your choice. But as someone who frequently uses both apple and pc as well as ios and android, this video is heavily biased.
I didn't really understand this video much. Like you said, the latency is the reason. The rest is just making straw man arguments to support why it doesn't make sense to make an Android Flip app.
I will have to say, DirectX sucks. I always use my asio interface but when I'm looking through splice sometimes it doesn't play nice with it. I have a workaround tho.
that juce list looks dated AF, 'newest' phones I see there are from 2017 and that's when Android started to support sub 10ms latency. it's been an issue for longest time for sure and still might depend on phone manufacturer, but at least on OS side things are done right to make music apps usable. it's the apps that Android needs right now, and I bet Flip could run no problem on modern Android devices. Also, what Andrew said about 'any' iOS devices that run under 10ms latency, there's caveat to that. the lower latency comes at cost of performance and older devices can start to perform poorly as app updates and at some point support can be dropped as well, which happened with Figure app for instance. I've seen some DAW-like apps on iPad mini 2 perform with so much stutter when you actually try to add some tracks and make music, that it becomes unusable.
Audio latency under 24 milliseconds isn't noticeable by the very large majority of people.
The Flip app rocks! Being a lazy person, I hardly ever fire up my daw and controller. Now I constantly want to open the app and try playing around with some weird sounds I record outside.
To be fair that list of android devices looks kinda old
to add, the apple products also included some old devices
The two lists include all Android and Apple devices ever made, because not everyone has the newest device.
@@fikrihaikal837 i was gonna say lol the apple list was 3 generations old too
@@itsJoshuaSkyy yeah
"Android Device", I assume, includes Android TV:s, Android Auto, any IOT device?
In addition to that there have been so many useless low price phones and tablets that never really were intended for any serious work.
And "24000" sounds as if it is 24000 completely different devices to support when, in fact, many of them will be supported form the get go.
I bet there are a great number of Samsung devices in that list that will work for different models.
The biggest problem isn't the hardware itself. It's the fact that older devices don't keep getting updated as long as for IOS devices. Some apps require higher Android versions than is supported. Then there is also the problem with the under powered budget devices that is further complicated when newer versions of Android just sucks up more system power.
I've just started using my iPad Pro 12.9 for music production. My main production system that I use is a PC based machine that I built. I'll continue to use it. But on a mobile scale, the iPad Pro is awesome and I won't use anything else.
For me, its about the operating system. I started producing music using a mac. I never once had it crash on me. Not once. Then I switched to PC cause it was a cheaper option at the time. I am using Windows 10 pro currently and I absolutely hate it. My PC has crashed on me several times during production. There are constant updates. Lately Windows updates have done a number of things. Windows app store icon is dimmed out and won't load. Constant driver updates. Got the blue screen of death after an update about 3 months ago. I had to strip the hard drive and reinstall everything. On my old macbook pro, I never once had any of those issues. Never once had to reinstall IOS. The only issue I had with my mac, was a battery issue that was easily solved by replacing it. So over all.... I have to go with Apple due to its operating systems stability.
I'm crushed in the first three minutes... he mentions how on average how much better Apple phone hardware is, which everyone understands but not everyone can afford. One of my favorite songs I made was too much latency for the FL Studio App on my $50 droid phone(I break phones so often and dev I just refuse to spend a ton on phones except yeah a specific dev phone I use just for that), but I worked with what I had camping out in the woods, and I always appreciate developers who give options to those who don't use the excuse that Apple Hardware is just better and as in this example compare it to some of the worse and slowest Android phones that at least more masses have access to.
This is why when I developed educational software I made sure Android was a key point because of the affordability and access.
I remember too when I bought a top Macbook pro for the time just to buy into the hype, then instantly I was sad to lose access to all my freeware VST's that I started making music on broke. I was so happy when it got stolen.
I have tossed so much cash now at hardware and software but yeah I just feel for people who are working on that $50 phone making amazing music or whatever(learning app) and people seem to try to explain their hardware is just better(On mac) and basically turn their back on them.
Stuff just makes me sad at least Andrew has this channel on both devices and open access.
Macs absolutely do not last twice as long. It uses all of the same hardware as Windows PCS. Why would you think it's going the last longer?
because it costs twice as much so u are twice as careful ;P
Bro how about Linux??
I absolutely love using Ubuntu Studio.
@@SynthApprentice I run Manjaro. And make tutorials on YT about this stuff. I also do this for a living.
So strange... I'm from the lighting / event technician world an here we use more Win machines than Mac. Maybe it's also because I'm in Europe...
One thing I love about Macs, is that there is one dedicated folder for plugins.
why windows products are better: they are 1/5th the cost for the same specs and can do pretty much all the same things
With 100x the bugs
This is an unfair statement because Andrew's video is in terms of music production, which is a very specific with it's requirements. You wouldn't get a mac to play games on, but you would highly consider it if you can have a computer that lasts a long time and will run your music software slightly better straight out of the box than an alternative that may or may not be stable or become obsolete in a few years, especially in laptops.
@@GuilleFrenk tf kinda 10 year old virus filled 1000 rpm 10gb hardrive pc are you using to get 100x the bugs?
It's more that you can't get a cheap Mac, whereas you can get a cheap PC. But if you're looking at price for performance, the "Apple tax" is mostly a myth -- for laptops anyways. Of course they get you with overpriced peripherals (keyboards and mice and etc.), but apart from that, it's just that Mac doesn't have a "lower end" offering on the market.
@@GuilleFrenk interesting. I have been making music on gaming laptops for a while. I have been working with this latest gaming laptop for the last 4-5 years with no issues, no crashes, and no bugs. It’s been pretty smooth for me.
And me making music in Ubuntu... 😅
One of us, one of us
nice
@Filip Squibb personally I do it out of spite, and because I just need to make rough demos in ardour, not fully produced stuff
@Filip Squibb I would say that every pro Andrew mentions about Mac 11:28 applies except the “it just works”, sometimes you have to fiddle a bit to make something work (but there is always a way), and none of the expenses: you can use any PC, even an old one, Ubuntu is free to download as well as Ardour (a native daw).
If anyone wants to try I would recommend it, specially if you are starting out. Here are some of my favorite software: For DAW there is Ardour and Bitwig. Ardour can be obtained for free and it’s a great daw, a little bit old schooled tho. It is my favorite one for traditional tracking and mixing, as in using mics and not a ton of effects and modulations. On the other hand Bitwig is great for modern production, I like it to experiment with sounds. Both daws are also available for Windows and Mac which is a plus. For plugins I use the ones included with each daw or Windows ones to emulate analog equipment. If you are a fan of Andrew then you have to try VCV Rack, is an Eurorack emulator. Paired with a midi keyboard or sequencer it’s amazing, the best one out there. Also check out Open Stage Control, this is my most recent discovery and I’m fascinated. It lets you control your daw from any device without the need to install any app, it runs in any browser. You can create your custom controllers and it is free. Finally for video editing (and a bunch of other stuff) you can use Blender, it is my favorite software ever (although a bit hard to learn at first) and it’s free too haha :)
Ok so on Laura's desk there's a Livid Instruments OHM, which is super cool cuz I happen to know the owner and they're pretty obscure nowadays. Just something interesting I noticed. Love the content Andrew!
I remember discovering those randomly years ago and being confused at the lack of explanation as to what it is *exactly* haha.
Sometimes I wonder why people at companies assume everyone knows what their products are and do. For example, the massive boxes MOTU makes.
@@mikeexits I know! I just remember seeing them and thinking they looked so cool... but having no idea what their use was lol. Unfortunately, i think that livid is no more considering their entire website has been shut down and the owner isn't really in a condition to run a company like that
As someone who worked in IT and has experience in both devices.
The mac OS is very smooth, very clean and easy. The hardware "feels" nice (on the inside its not great quality, check louis rossman for examples).
The problem arises when your apple investment ends up making you pay more. More for apps, more for repairs, more for upgrades, more for adapters and hubs and "apple compatible" hardware.
In a PC, usually there is a way to fix almost any problem. with apple products there is a lot of things that aren't fixable and any repairs are purposefully monopolized by apple.
If your data storage fails in a pc, its a LOT easier to backup, replace and recover than any sort of modern mac. same for any other hardware failures.
Old software almost always has a way to run on a pc. Older hardware has a higher chance to work on pc.
If your technician is skilled enough, they can make a pc run nicely for a DECADE with far less investments in money.
Stability problems mainly come from cheap laptops. if you are getting a laptop I understand why you would want to get a macbook, laptops are designed for people who are uninformed and who will put up with bloatware and dodgy drivers that always "eventually works". The big exception to this rule is Lenovo Thinkpads, and in general laptops that are designed for businesses. Businesses do not tolerate the software bs that comes with "home laptops". but even with the cheap laptops, the a lot of the time the problems can be fixed (with decent skill).
Just bought my first Mac. Really excited!