+CrimsonGamer99 According to the Anaxes War College System, the Venator and Imperial are both Star Destroyers. The Venator however was designed earlier, and was not as large, and did not incorporate nearly as advanced technologies in terms of power generators- and most of the CIS fleet was retooled mercantile ships- therefore, the Venator still out gunned most everything in the CIS fleet, and the Republic needed more ships faster- so the smaller, lighter armed Venator was the way to go. They also deployed Venators in groups of three or four- whereas the Empire normally only sent a single ISD with a few support ships as well for most situations.
+Isaac Frazier Then empire hardly ever uses a single ISD for anything, until they don't have enough to go around. Then they still surround them with smaller support ships. The Republic ship was perfect as a carrier, and only transported material such as troops ad hoc, the Acclamator was for that. And it only engaged other ships when it had to, the Victory class was for that. The republic was spread so thin during the war that the venator ended up filling the roles of transport and direct combatant, roles it was not intended to do.
CIS warship weren't really retooled mercantile ship as most of the CIS fleet simply lighter ship with far less armour, such as, the Munificent-class star frigate as they had little armour, but bristled with weapons, which made up the back bone of the CIS fleet
Some of the CIS fleet ship carried mass drivers(if you don't know mass driver you can see in the link here=>starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mass-driver_cannon )Also mass driver can pass through shieldings.
The Anaxes-system is wuite stupid. Why would you class ships only by their length? As far as I know it does not even have a destroyer class, puts Star Destroyers in an weird place between heavy cruisers and battlecruisers and claims, that ships over 5km length are so common, that you need an own class to describe them.
In a real world comparision, the Venator Class sounds like t's more like an aircraft carrier, while the I-Class sounds more like a heavy cruiser or Battlecruiser.
not necessarily. The main anti-ship armament a carrier has is just the aircraft it carries. A carrier would have to stop and launch their aircraft while under fire from a ship that has a minimum range of 10-15 miles. From things I've read, it takes at least 2 to 5 minutes to launch a fighter from a modern carrier in optimal conditions. A Scharnhorst class battlecruiser had a firing rate of 3.5 rounds per minute from its main guns. How would a carrier deck fair against a direct broadside from one of these puppies?
+D. R. Yeisley's Creations Definitely NOT a Battlecruiser. I don't know where people get this from, but Battlecruisers are NOT armored heavily. The original idea was to combine the guns of a Battleship and the speed of a Cruiser.
+D. R. Yeisley's Creations I think we have some mixed comparisons. First, I would throw out the cruiser vs. carrier, and go with battle-cruiser vs battleship. Yes, the smaller ships were lighter, and therefor, supposedly faster. But, in practice, it was the armor that mattered, in both world wars. The heavy armor of the battleships could take hits, and keep fighting, where as the battle-cruisers quickly fell out, or sank.
yes the empires would have actually been better for dealing with the separatists with is heavy anti swarm firepower. The republic would have been better for the empire with its fighters.
I think the Empire decided that planetary invasions wouldn't be as common with the forthcoming of the Death Star so they abandoned the idea of a troop and ship transport like the Venator.
In a direct shooting battle the Imperial 1 wins, no doubt about that, but carriers are superior to battleships in tactical engagements. The Imperial 1 Star Destroyers were built to annihilate capital ships, but they were entirely dependent on their TIE fighters for point defense. In a fight where the Venator can can avoid ever directly exchanging fire with the Imperial I think it would win pretty easily. The Imperial 1 Star Destroyers don't have any weapons facing backwards, so if their fighter picket was destroyed they would become easy targets for even small fleets of bombers.
"In a fight where the Venator can can avoid ever directly exchanging fire with the Imperial I think it would win pretty easily. The Imperial 1 Star Destroyers don't have any weapons facing backwards, so if their fighter picket was destroyed they would become easy targets for even small fleets of bombers". They do haver point defenses in the back as well. One X-wing was destroyed in in Return of the Jedi from a turbolaser blast from a Star Destroyer, even when they where behind it. And it should be noted that modern day carrier tactics doesn't really work that well in Star Wars. Torpedoes aren't that reliable against armored ships, as was seen a few times in the battle of Endor when proton torpedoes harmlessly exploded even against the bridge tower. There are also a lot of massive explosions around the larger warships that doesn't cause any damage at all. It would also be very hard for the Venator to avoid the Imperator as hyperspace allows for very precise jumps, which would allow the Imperator to jump right next to the Venator.
onlypeaceindeath Hyperspace doesn't work in gravity wells, asteroid belts or nebula. It's pretty easy to negate enemies jumping on you as a possibility if you're fighting inside of a star system. Making a jump that precise is also extremely difficult. On top of that both ships are capable of jumping, so any advantage from it would be momentary at best. Fighters are extremely effective against capital ships in Star Wars, the whole reason why every Star Destroyer carries a bunch of TIE fighters is because the biggest danger to them are bombers, not enemy capital ships. I don't know where you get the notion that fighters can't hurt Star Destroyers, if that was true the Rebellion wouldn't have ever won a single battle.
Dr. Spy They leave because the ship is going down. Literally 80% of the time the jedi leaves because they are evacuating (watch the entire Clone Wars if you want proof)
SwegmeisterJ This is solely based from Clone Wars but Anakin got injured once, they evacuated the whole ship because it was about to blow and crashed it into enemy ship, and Boba blew up a capital ship injuring 2 jedi while killing a lot of clones. (I could find out more if I wanted to go rewatch it)
I remember reading a book a long time ago, one of the dozens of really shit to meh expanded universe ones that had a single Venator class ship being manned by a crew in nowhere space after the fall of the empire. It was buggy old husk that was in needed of constant repairs and was never decommissioned due to it's patrol being in nowhere space around un-developed worlds. Years passed with the commander of the ship listening to reports of the Empire tearing itself apart. His ship was never ordered to do anything but occasionally send food transports from a few local farm worlds. Soon, those shipments stopped and the ship was effectively alone. It was eventually found by a rebel controlled Imperial 2 star destroyer. The rebels commanded the ship to surrender, noting that the empire was no more and that their old husk of a ship stood no chance of winning any engagement. The commander stood there, options going on in his head. Half the ships weapons were non-functional due to age, the fighter compliment was of old pre clone wars ships with only a dozen modified transport ships as makeshift bombers. Even the ships power core was running at less than half capacity due to age; many sections of the ship had frequent brownouts. He agreed to surrender to the rebels for clemency for him and his men. The rebels agreed and moved in on the old ship, some of them astonished that such and old vessel was still in service. That's when the commander struck, he in intentionally blew out two of his engines, sending the ship in a ramming course with the imperial star destroyer. It crashed into the size and grinded up against the ship, blocking all the fighter bays on the left side. He then ordered all the fighters they could get out into kamikaze ramming attacks on he ship, dealing heavy damage to the star destroyer. Both of them being triangles neither of them could get very effective fire on each other (Most of the guns being on the top and bottom of the ship and not the side where he rammed). His last communication to the rebels was something along the lines of "Long live the empire, die rebel filth!" He pressed a button and the ship self destructed, taking half the star destroyer with it. In he days following most of the crew compliment on the star destroyer died from lack of life support systems, mostly due to the few shuttle bombers that made it out the bays of the venator class destroyer blowing up large sections of what remained of the hull. They did manage to finally get some systems on line with emergency power, shooting down the harassing bombers. But out of the entire crew compliment barely 700 survived. They were eventually rescued by a Mon-calimari cruiser patolling a nearby system. Moral of the story; never under estimate an enemy, no matter the size. Especially when hes forgotten more about the ship you are using than you will ever know.
+Raptormon “Raptormon132” OneThreeTwo I don't think that would even be a match. The droid control ship was more of a troop transport since it originally started out as trade ships.
+Richard Lew But later in the Clone Wars, Lucrehulks have strong shields, armour and powerful cannons. But the Imperial 1-class Star Destroyer would more likely to destroy it
gafa ghafari I don't think so. The Lucrehulk-class Droid Control Ship is about 3 times bigger than the Imperial 1-class Star Destroyer, has a bigger use of fighters, and has just as many powerful cannons as the Star Destroyer. So I think Lucrehulk-class Droid Control Ship would destroy a Star Destroyer one-on-one.
+Raptormon “Raptormon132” OneThreeTwo I ones read an encyclopedia that 1 Imperial 1-class Star Destroyer could destroy an entire Lucrehulk ships in minutes. And the Star Destroyer could easily destroy it without shields right?
The problem with your conclusion is that these are two different classes of ships in the same design familiy, lighter ships usualy have the mobility and manuverablity advantage over heavier ships. In real warfare heavy ships are used to provide fire support for the smaller more agile ships. And a ship of any size, especially a heavy ship, would rarely operate alone aside from special missions (like Vader's in A New Hope). The Republic Cruiser costs almost a third of the cost of 1-class Star Destroyer, so it would almost certainly be traveling with another cruiser and/or a pair of frigates if it was expected to face a Star Destoryer. Each Republic cruiser also carried an obscene number of starfighters compared to the Star Destroyer, so the Republic fighters would do much more than distract the Imperial fighters. Each TIE fighter was roughly equal to the Republic Interceptors they were developed from, while being far inferior to the other Republic fighters (which is why the Rebel fighters developed from these models were often seen dominating the aerospace during the Galactic Civil War) . And the ARC-170 is a Strike-Fighter (or Fighter-Bomber depending on the Squadron) meaning it was Multi-role like the Cruiser itself. Once the first wave of Republic fighters cut a path through the TIE fighters/bombers/interceptors the ARC-170s and any other strike capable ships could focus on taking out the Destroyer's shields, weapons, and other critical systems ahead of any serious exchange between the Capital ships. It would be unlikely that a Single Star Destroyer would survive against two Republic Cruisers.
+Mike Mac Ultimately that would take alot longer (especially with fewer bombers) then it would for a star destroyed to use its absurd firepower to obliterate a much weaker cruiser. Off course the Venator has fighter superiority, but fighters cant really do much in a quick amount of time against main cannons and the TIE fighters act more as a distraction. If you look at the use of capital ships in the civil war, they are used alot less by the rebellion because of their ineffective against a star destroyer which is designed to take down other capital ships.
Vy canon The Venator had more Strike-Fighters than the Star Destroyer had Bombers. Ignoring that the other Fighters were also Strike Capable the Venator easily out classed the Star Destroyer tactically. And again most of the weapons, bridge, and other vital systems on the Star Destroyer would be vulnerable to Strikes from the Venator's deployed fighters, meaning the Imperials wouldn't necessarily have fire superiority over the Venator, or that the Star Destroyer would even have active shields by the time it engaged the Venator. If you look at how smaller strike ships are used against heavier ships in real warfare you'd see that The heavy ships don't often survive when engaged by medium sized ships supported by deployed strike vessels.
Agree with this conclusion, this video discounts naval tactics almost completely. bigger heavy ships with their lack of quick quick maneuvers to lighter heavily gun mounted ship ignores to its peril the light Destroyer concept. which has proven throughout history to be a deciding factor in Naval Warfare. the carrier adding extra depth and dimension to a Admirals strike capability. the Bismarck and Yamato almost quintessential stereotypes to the ultimate Dreadnought shortcoming.
Michael Kapela I think we can agree that the scenario proposed in this video would be an interstellar version of the Battle off Samar en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar
+Derf565 That's a surprisingly accurate comparison. I wonder if a heavily modified Republic Cruiser would fit the role of the Firefly modified Sherman of the British, which had the capability to stand up to the Tiger, although some good tactics were still needed.
+Reon Thornton I don't think those sort of tactics would work there. The main and pretty much only tactic the Sherman could utilize was its small size and high speed to flank behind cover... In space there is no cover. Its a straight up face to face confrontation, not with projectile weapons with have to be leaded to hit a target, but with laser based weaponry which pretty much will never miss.. Its a purer armour+shields vs armour and firepower vs firepower fight. In a realistic Star Wars (proper physics) the Empire would win every fight hands down.
Fernando Cárdenas Do you even know what the Firefly is? It's a Sherman with slightly better armour, but a massive cannon that could penetrate Tiger armour much better. It was from the standard US 76mm to a 105mm if I remember right. As for tactics, you got to monitor shield and weapon energy, haven't you? As well as what to target first. The tactics change, but they don't vanish.
Fernando Cárdenas not really, it costs 3 times as much to build an imperial star destroyer. given the right tactics 3 Republic Cruisers could take out an imperial star destroyer.
nah, 400+ starfighters will decimate an imperial 1. The Venator captain must be smart enough to stay just out of range for the ISD turbolaser fire to do minimal damage overall. Venators are still star destroyers at the end of the day and they are tough, and the carrier aspect is just broken af on them.
I think that you're SEVERLY underestimating the carrier advantage of the Venator. The ARC is an amazing fighter and a decent bomber. Both V-Wings and V19s have missile launchers that can damage capital ships. The Y-wings would only need a few hits to totally disable the ISD. The ISD could be damn near dead before the Venator even had to get in range.
975 km/h??? That is as "fast" as a commercial airliner... how did they ever get anywhere? Even the ISS is travelling at around 28000 km/h (about 17500 mph). With that speed it would take them over 16 days to get from earth to the moon....
Jeremy parker mps not mph A normal spacecraft in our realm moves at speed around 4km/s because the spacecrafts in star wars have a perceivable movement they must move faster the distances in outer space are are huge the distance between moon and Earth is 384400 Km . So to optically perceive a movement on that scale that movement has to be very fast or an object damn huge. A star destroyer may seem huge but it is a merely a size of a big asteroid. Which isn't that big either.
That is definently a factor. I think your right about the laser being able to do some solid damage to the ISD, but I feel that its just not enough to make much of a difference. The Venator is a ship designed as a multipurpose fighter carrier, while the ISD is mostly intended for capital ship warfare. I love the venator, but it's just to outdated of a ship to even compare to the ISD.
+Jack Benney Having read the wiki, i'm just basing my info after the ships in Empire At War. In that game the Venator's beam weapon does heavy damage to ships and space stations through shields.
Hail The Galactic Empire!!! Please the republic has nothing on The Empire. Republic be like "we have better troops than you" Empire be like "blows planet up"
I prefer the Republic Cruisers; love how more sleek they are. If you ask me the Prequel-era Empire as a whole had better looking troops (Phase II Clones) and starships. (Vader's Sith Starfighter, V-Wings, all-grey RCs, etc.)
Colossal weakness is a bit of an overstatement, It was a one meter by one meter ventilation shaft that turned at a *ninety degree angle* at the end of a highly guarded ravine. What kind projectile immetiatly curves at a ninety degree angle, then heads directly down for kilometers on end (answer, one shot by space wizards)? No way the engineers could have accounted for that.
"This is going to be a versus between an IMPERIAL FIRST CLASS..." While this is being spoken the images of a Venator Class and Imperial SECOND Class are on screen.
*Sorry I made a small mistake. The crew of the Venator-Class Star Destroyer is actually 7,400 not 2,000* I've added an annotation in the video correcting this mistake.
+Fact Free Hey, could you do a video on the different super star destroyers and who they "belonged" too? Also, with the Venator, the ship capacity, is that combined or how much it could hold if there were no other ships in the hangar? Yet again, does the Imperial star destroyer have enough armor to with stand a ramming attack from a Venator?
You missed a very key component... The crew. A ship is only as good as the crew running it. And I remember seeing more insubordination amongst storm troopers than clones. Also if you want a real example of why this is a factor, look at the H.M.S. Titanic, the ship was supposedly unsinkable. Maybe even the best ship out there at the time, but although the ship did what it was designed to do. Shut chambers and prevent leaks. The crew missed the iceberg and didn't do all that much after the initial collision. The crew failed the boat.
+Fact Free You should use both old essential guide to vehicles and vessels as well as the new essential guide to vehicles and vessels. You could probably just read the pages word for word and still be completely accurate.
Bandai Yugioh We would be talking more on the lines of 290 Republic Cruisers for every 100 Imperial star destroyers. and in drawn out war the Republic could simply adapt. Its kinda like the t34 vs the tiger
+lordofdarkdudes Or the Shermans. For every one Tiger produced, America could produce four Shermans. The mixture of reliability and numbers was instrumental in the battles they won, as at least one could flank and take advantage of the weak spot by the engine.
+Bandai Yugioh without point defense the number of fighters would overwhelm the class I star destroyers fighter compliment and then the bombers would have free shots to target the weapons systems engines and shield generators.
+Captain Awesome actually the Sherman kicked Tigers ass. all that shit about Sherman Platoons getting fucked up by lone Tiger tanks was actually bullshit.
Joseph Ahner Eh no, the later models the easy 8's could match the tigers in firepower but they were never better than the tiger. And the some tiger actully did fuck up whole colums of sherman mostly due to the fact that the german army hade more aces in the field than the allies, due to the fact that most aces in the allied armys were sent home to train new tank drivers
Can you do a video on the actual galactic republic senate? Like how the government actually works? No one has ever done that I think. Like which worlds have senators to vote for bills and such. I would love it if you could have a video about the senate( clone wars era or empire era)
Please do a video about force sensitivity. Does power in the force grow through feats, or bloodline? The emperor was once fearful of continuing to train Ventress as Dooku's apprentice because of her power, even though he was arguably the strongest sith lord to ever live, while Anakin was said to possibly best even Yoda and the Emperor combined, although he was a product of the force. Luke as well was said to have the same force potential Anakin had. So how does growth in force power occur?
The cost of the F-22 is not because the metals are expensive, though. Large gov't contracts bring in larger overheads. The empire was probably worse than our current US gov't for corruption. Lastly, 1 USD is not the same as 1 made up Imperial credit.
Except (A) Those are the Imperial 2 statistics I believe, and (B) the Venator is much faster, both in sunlight and hyperspace, with a larger fighter compliment, 3 fighter bays for much faster deployment, superior fighters (ones that are actually a threat to capital ships, unlike TIEs), and the advantage of concealed shield generators that, unlike those on the ImpStar, are not a glaringly obvious target for fighters. The Imperial does have heavier weapons, but lacks any form of ordinance launcher, and with fewer and inferior fighters has a minuscule range. The Venator merely has to use Carrier strategies. Keep moving to stay out of range while its fighters tear the ImpStar to pieces.
+Devin Gendron The thing is that the Venator can use Carrier strategies for the beginning of the battle. He launches his 420 fighters (with superior armaments (the V-Wing carries 4 lasers cannons, the Actis Eta-2 2 lasers cannons (remember what they did to the Invisible Hand batteries) and 2 ion cannons and the ARC-170, while being slower, has more armament (4 cannons + Torpedos + turret) and hyperdrive allowing them to use Rebellion's raid tactics to destroy, let's say shield generators or heavy batteries BEFORE the beginning of the the battle) and you can replace some (let's say shuttles) by Y-Wing to gain anti-ship capabilities). On the other hand the Imperial-I has 48 superiority fighters and 12 TIE-Bombers (useless against the 420 fighters) and nearly no AAA defence (this is the reason of the advantages of the Rebellion against isolated Star Destroyers). Not mentioning the Republic pilots are actually clones which are raised for combat against swarms of numerically superior droid fighters and in general excellent pilots. The 420 fighter can attack the Destroyer at close range (same tactics as used against the Death Star) and destroy batteries, shield, reactors and other vital parts. When the Imperial-Star Destroyer is vulnerable enough (no escape possible, no shield, extremely reduced armament) the Venator can come in range and fire all it's weapons. You have to remember the DBY-827 isn't just a heavy dual-turbolaser turret but an extremely versatile weapon with, on high power mode can fire at great distances (probably greater than the range of the Imperial-class) and making extremely high damages (if the Venator had to fight Munificent- or Recusant-class ships, there were also effective against the extremely powerful Providence class destroyers. And more, they had to fight (in groups) the 3000m long, 3000m large Lucrehulk battleships carrying 1500 fighters, equipped with 48 turbolasers + 164 quad lasers + ... and escorted (ships of that size are in general flagships/command ships)). At medium range, on the even more vulnerable target, they can increase fire rate without loosing damage (and with the same overheat risk level). Finally, the Venator can come to close range and act as a ship of the line, loosing half of the turbolasers and all of the torpedos but allowing the use of Driller Missiles (there's not a lot of documentation in English on these but there is in French. They are the canons used by the Republic against the Invisible Hand when the Guarlara come at close range in Revenge of the Sith. They're designed to go through the heavy shielded, extremely well-armoured Providence-class Destroyer. On a shield-less Imperial-I, it would make extremely high damages). In short, in a duel, the Venator-class will win. In every case, a fleet of Venator, if they can separate the Imperials, will win. The problems of the Clone Wars is that there were a lot of blockade breaking or defence battles against numerically superior enemies (a single Lucrehulk carries 1500 fighters). In fact, the video compared shielding and firepower. It's precisely the error the Empire did when they underestimated the utility of mobility and air superiority: using the Venator with Rebellion (or just common sense) tactics is unfair, if not overkilled (not mentioning the fact that the Republic fleet had numerous Jedi's (as tacticians or pilots). It's even worse if a Jedi tactician is a user of the battle meditation. This power can turn a 10v1 battle (like the Battle of Endor) in a fair fight by considerably boosting the morale, stamina, and overall battle prowess of an individual's allies while simultaneously reducing the opposition's combat-effectiveness by eroding their will to fight. In this case, fire power doesn't even matter and there is no chance (even for numerically superior Imperial force).
Loïc van der Wielen Exactly my point, though in far greater detail, credit where credit is due. I chose to discount the superiority of Clone Pilots and Republic Commanders, as well the benefits offered by Jedi, so as to treat this as a matter of technology. This is a bit of hyperbole, but put Thrawn behind a Correllian cruiser and he could take on an ImpStar Deuce if he wanted to. The Empire learned nothing from the Clone Wars, with Republic technology superior in almost every respect (Save in the highly specialized field of super weapons, and even the Death Stars are dwarfed by Old Republic Era weapons like the Star Forge or the Dark Harvester).
Devin Gendron Same goes for Gilad Pellaeon (I would love to see those two in the Canon). But we're beginning to enter something extremely specific (maybe did I with the battle meditation but there is always a probability a Jedi is trained to use it). On the other hand, Jedi's (alone or in group) were extremely common and clones standard for Republic ships. The thing with the Empire is that he always wanted to inspire fear. This force him to use big ships but also in mass, downgrading fighter and other technologies to be less costly (despite other existing TIE fighters being far more effective than the TIE/In. Like the Defender). These ships were also largely made against other big ships and so good at destroying them they annihilate any chance to see another warship attacking them directly. (Same goes with the Germans in the Pas-de-Calais. They fortified the region so much, they destroyed any chance to see an Allied attack on it, even if the Allies did everything to make them think they will attack there).
Loïc van der Wielen Yep. The Empire definately downgraded when it came down to it. It's kind of sad thinking about that Stormtroopers were supposed to be the elite soldier of the Empire, their equivalent to the US Marine Corps. And TIE Fighters are a joke as a fighter. One of my favorite EU Quotes, from Corran Horn: "Your Basic Seinar Fleet Systems TIE/ln starfighter, which, after stupidity and hydrogen, were the 3rd most common thing in the galaxy."
I agree with everything you said except I feel that if 2 Republic "cruisers" (or light carrier is maybe a better name) were able to launch their full compliment of fighters and equip them for striking a capital ship, they might do better.
retconned, before the old EU died, Impstar-I was developed and built during the Clone Wars mainly as prototypes, and the Old Republic used Victory-Is in the last year of the war..
Victory I Class saw service in the Clone Wars, and the Victory II was produced shortly afterward. Actually the Imperial I Class Star Destroyer was developed during the Clone Wars, and saw extremely limited use. Like a handful existed in total during the Clone Wars.
For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the Dark Times...before the Empire.
One must not forget that the venator class used Driller missiles ( as seen when canon manned by clones are fired during the battle of Coruscant ). Such missiles are able to pierce through shields.
In a one-on-one fight then yes, an imperial star destroyer would win, but republic assault cruisers where mass prdoduced more than imperial star destroyers, so for every imperial star destroyer, there'ed(there would be) about three republic ships bs one imperial star destroyer, so in my opinion, in an all out war, the republic would win since they have more numbers, are more nimble and have quality troops, even though they are not a heavy army compared to the Empire. That's my opinion anyway
+Elias Padilla Actually the Empire has a much greater number of ships than the Republic, they took over the Republic Navy so the Republic can't have more ships than the Empire and to oppress hundreds of star systems with military strengths they need a great number of ships and from what I have read the Empire used over 25.000 ships of the Imperial-class.
to be lazy, just look up the reactor power of both ships. The ship with the stronger reactor wins (as warships really ust turn the reactor power into laser power)
So if the same amount of credits were spent on each fleet, because of how cheap the Venators were in comparison, the Star Destroyers would just be overwhelmed.
however dont forget the venator class as you pointed out carries a lot more fighters including Y-wing bombers v-wing arc170 and later on the sealed version of the Laat and laat/c
Sure the star destroyer had more guns then the republic cruiser but the republic cruisers guns are of a much higher caliber and it possess a much more powerful air wing
The guns on a Imperial Star Destroyer are actually much larger than a Venator's guns. And it has a larger reactor which will supply the guns with more power.
cool video I dug it. kudos on the delivery as well... some of these videos I can barely sit through due the narrator not being able to read aloud too well.
An Apollo era ship flew 5000 mph to the moon. A modern cargo ship carries more than 25,000 tons of cargo. The numbers mentioned at 1:45 are off by at least two full magnitudes.
Mark Shanahan that is still insanely slow. Space Shuttles get up to 2.63km/s break the pull of the Earth's gravity. To put it in perspective, if the damn thing only went 603 mph in atmosphere, it would have a similar power to weight ratio of a Boeing 737, who's cruise speed is 578 mph. even if it went 603 m/s it would still be too heavy and slow to break atmosphere.
You make the assumption that the ISD and VSD would utilize the same tactics. The ISD is more of a battlecarrier and the VSD is more of a true carrier that would rely more on carrier style tactics than the ISD. Combining an overall fighter complement more than 3 times the ISD and higher quality fighters than said ISD, the VSD has the capability to knock out an ISD if it utilizes carrier style tactics.
I somewhat disagree on two points. Firstly, like we see in the clone vs storm trooper fights, I believe that the better experience and general competence of the crews of the Venator would be a major factor. And the second would be that I believe that the proton torpedos on the Venator would be able to cause substantial damage to the Imperial 1, as we saw in the opening scene of revenge of the sith when a Venator class was able to completely blast a CIS cruiser in half with a single hit. Thirdly I want to point out that the superstructure mounted shield generators on an imperial 1 star destroyer have been shown to be an exploitable weakness in the films. That being said, it would still be a difficult battle, and the venator would definitely suffer critical damage during the battle, and in my mind the imperial 1 would still win the majority of the battles, but the venator would not make it easy either.
+speed150mph Oh, I forgot to mention in the video that in these fights I usually have the crews/pilots of the vehicles be of equal competence, as it's more of a verses between the vehicles and not crews. Also the big laser you're talking about in the opening scene in Episode 3 was actually from a Self-Propelled Heavy Artillery gun (the big guns used on Geonosis to bring down the fleeing spherical droid "factories") that was in the hanger of that Venator, and was not an actual weapon a part of the ship itself. Also I've read an explanation long ago as to why the star destroyers during Endor were brought down so easily, I'll see if I can find it and if so I'll get back to you. Hope I've cleared some things up. Thanks for watching!
Angry Antalope A lot of it comes from the book: Star Wars Complete Cross-Sections. Here are the two pages I used for some of the number parts for this video: i.imgur.com/mivTFfR.jpg i.imgur.com/E1TiotP.jpg
The Imperial Star Destroyer would most likely win. Though I personally prefer them getting mixed into one star destroyer I have seen one and it's pretty good looking.
Am I the only one that thinks the republic cruiser looks a lot like jar jar binks? Especially looking at it from a front on view point. It's even coloured the same as jar jar. 🤔
I disagree. The one who dominates the air, dominates the battle. The Venator has more fighters. The Rebels were able to down Star Destroyers in the Battle of Endor despite being considerably weaker and having only a small fleet of fighters and bombers. Heck, an X-Wing multirole fighter was able to down the shields of a Super Star Destroyer and an A-Wing finished it off Kamikaze-style. That should tell you something. Luke's Journal reveals to us that Rebel pilots were no joke either. Their quality over quantity and expertise allowed them to hold their own against the quantity of TIE Fighters (and TIE pilots were skilled no doubt). Luke ran a simulation and was able to take on a Star Destroyer's entirety of fighters, which Biggs chuckled at in an expectant manner. The films have always shown the skill of the Rebel pilots to outmatch the vulnerabilities of the TIE. Yes, they do eventually succumb to the swarm, but not before taking many TIEs with them. I think Lucas designed the Clone Wars fighters to be a harking back to the Rebel tech, having quality before diverging into the Imperial-realm quantity, just swarming the opponent. Combine swarm with skill, and quality, and the Star Destroyer is up against a lot. The Star Destroyers were increased in quality, but it was probably to offset their new ideology of a mass produced TIE (much like their mass recruitment of Stormtroopers), and even then the Star Destroyers still had their vulnerabilities. You watch the films, they had trouble with small fighters. They couldn't even catch or destroy the Millennium Falcon. Their TIE fighters were quickly destroyed. The fighter cannot destroy the Star Destroyer, but the Star Destroyer cannot easily destroy the fighter. The fighter CAN hurt the Star Destroyer by attacking critical and vulnerable targets. If the Venator can maintain fighter superiority, those fighters could effectively disable the ship by attacking its shields, weapon systems, and engines. Then it's a sitting duck and the Venator as well as its fighters can take their pick on how to destroy the Star Destroyer. This is why I think a Venator, and moreso two Ventators, as more than a match for the Imperial Star Destroyer. The Venator would not be in a direct confrontation with the Star Destroyer. It would opt to avoid the direct fire power of it by either flanking it (like the Rebels did in the Battle of Endor) or staying out of its range and focusing on fighter superiority. Unless we are talking , say, Anakin here as leading the Venator-class ship. Then of course he'd just rush in and try to absorb the brunt of it like some kind of game of bloody knuckles. He'd just have the ship sit there and slowly killed (like he does in the Clone Wars, which cost him ships and even forced him to retreat). Then yeah, you're right. The Venator is screwed.
+HaloModder555 About the first paragraph: The only thing this tells me, rather reminds me is that Mr.Lucas could not make believable enemies. TIE fighters are not only cheaper fighters but they are good too. Naturally not X-Wing good, but they could still outrun an X-Wing. I also think that X-Wings were a waste of money and resources anyway. Why the hell would you need life support on a fighter? Hyperdrive? Of course because guerilla strikes are easier without a big ass mon-calamari luxury yacht... warship appearing. Anyhow, gotten off track. So GL could never set up good enemies thats why I kinda don't like the movies. Droids are an army of imbecile idiots barely even capable of anything, stormtroopers barely even able to aim. This makes a movie pretty darn boring if you ask me. The huge galactic empire that even had authority in backwater planets like Tatooine-what the bureaucratic republic were never able to establish, and the actual Empire who could has only incompetent soldiers? TIE fighter pilots getting shot down by a defector and a hobo on Jakuun, who only flied in like the first time? Now thats just stupid and I had enough of incompetent enemies. It really just broke star wars for me (not the first time, I loved it as a child) but now... This is why the EU is better. Well sometimes.
+littlejohnny41 Rebels had to rely on quality over quantity for the sake of their small force. Yes, the TIEs were advanced but not many pilots were able to take advantage of their full potential before being shot down. During the first film and second films, the whole point was to lure the enemy to the Imperial Navy. Through the Force, the Rebels succeeded. Good guys gotta win.
I do get that good guys gotta win (even if I don't like this fact, I mean there were six episodes, in all of them good guys won. Even in the Revenge of the Sith- after all jedi succeded to pass their ridiculous view on the force and the universe -there should be at least 1-2 movies where the Empire or the CIS gets the unquestionable victory) but the fact that Star Wars movies NEVER set up an enemy thats actually smart, disciplined, outplays the enemy at least 1-2 times. By having incompetent or imbecile enemies (like stormtroopers and droids) you really just "kill" the entire movie, since you know that no matter what happens good guys gotta win. There is no close calls there is nothing interesting, no plot twists, and whats worse, is that the enemy becomes unbelievable and because of that the entire movie will two. I get that the Empire just recruited anyone it could, but they still get a good amount of training. Even the CIS, with its big menacing army, were ruined right when it was cleared that the B1 battledroids are idiots. General Grievous, an amazing character from books, an expert with lightsaber combat in the movies and that annoying stupid clone wars series was just a pathetic weak coward, barely ever defeating anyone, without his amazing tactical genius that elevated him to his rank of supreme commander of the droid army. Books described that when his ship- the Invisible hand appeared in orbit, there were occasions where the entire planet just surrender. But in the movies he was just... ruined. That is my real problem. I mean not only the General but like every enemy, or villain.
+littlejohnny41 Also, I like to think of the Rebels as the US. Compare it to the Colonials vs the British. The British outnumbered the Americans by far, but the American Colonials had a more accurate rifle, one of the best of its time. It allowed the militia forces to better pick their targets in a more precise beaten zone. Or compare it to the the Soviet forces. The Soviets made great tanks and warplanes, and they loved numbers. It was supposed to be a reasonable counter to the limited American forces who focused on fewer but more complex weapon systems. While Soviet tech has seen considerable success through exported assets, they have been effectively countered time and time again by their more complex and costly counterparts by the US. That's not to say the Soviet weaponry is not deadly and without its advantages, but in the friction of war, you need to be able to counter any threat possible. The RPG is a deadly weapon system with an effective ratio that almost guarantees a kill on a tank. On paper, AT weapons should make the tank extinct. However, factors such as a limited visibility from fog, the psychological warfare of the rumbling tank, and the threat of indirect fire covering the tanks (mortars & artillery) can greatly affect the success of the RPG. So say the tank is an Abrams. The Abrams has special optics to counter poor visibility, its armor is able to protect it from small arms fire, and the size and noise it creates can further demoralize the enemy. Life support systems make sense when you want to try and preserve the pilot. The Empire can always draft or recruit more. The Rebellion does not have that luxury. Shielding makes sense when you want to opt for the pilot to have more chances than none. Where is an X-Wings strongest point of shielding? Front. How do Imperial fighters initially engage their targets? By swarm. This allows the X-Wing (and its counterparts) a higher chance to survive the powerful weapons of the TIE. It helps skilled pilots increase their time in battle before being killed. Again, that doesn't mean the TIE is not deadly, effective at its own method of attack, or without its advantages. It just means that you have two different strategies in play, trying to counter each other. The Rebellion's has been shown to work.
+HaloModder555 I meant tk say that the TIEs usually initiate engagement by means of a head on swarm. As shown in the films, games, and comics. Mobile does not let me edit comments.
In Episode IV it's a Victory-class destroyer, ESB was the first to feature Imperial class. This was pulled from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia AND behind the scenes interviews. Complete Cross-Sections is known for several errors.
Aren't you forgetting about the heavy SPHA turbolaser beam cannon attached to the ventral hanger of the Venator class Star Destroyer's of the open circle fleet? it was a later addition to the cruisers at Anakin Skywalker's suggestion and it was far more powerful then any turbolaser on either ship capable of completely destroying a Munificent-Class Star Frigate in one hit. You also forgot to add in that the Dual Heavy Turbolaser batteries on the Venator-Class Star Destroyer's rivaled the main batteries on the later Imperial I-class Star Destroyers, In terms of firepower. In addition to that you forget to add in the fact that the Venator-Class Star Destroyer's could divert almost all of its Hypermatter Annihilation Reactors output to its heavy turbolasers when needed, giving it's dual heavy turbolasers an insane firepower. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/DBY-827_heavy_dual_turbolaser_turret Also the shields of the Venator-Class Star Destroyer's were roughly that of the Victory 1-Class Star Destroyer's which had 3,200 SBD shielding. And while the shields of the Imperial-Class Star Destroyer are strong that's for sure you forgot to mention that the shield globe's are painfully exposed and vulnerable to enemy fire from missile weapons such as concussion missiles or proton torpedoes from star fighters as well as suicide attacks from small star fighters themselves. With this in mind you have to take into account that by itself the Imperial-Class Star Destroyer's had almost no anti-fighter weapons installed at all only ion cannons and turbolasers which are easily avoided by starfighters which is why the death star's turbolasers didn't work against rebel fighters during the battle of Yavin the Imperial-Class was designed for warship to warship combat not fighters. And as such had no fighter protection at all except around 40 tie-fighters which would be nothing against trained clone pilots since tie-fighters had no shields and most republic starfighters did as well as superior weaponry in fact the Venator itself could handle almost all the fighters by itself which would leave hundreds of fighters to attack the Imperial-Class. Now lets take a look at what would be attacking the Imperial class which has no anti-fighter weaponry installed. 192 Alpha Nimbus-3 Starfighters Armed with 2 twin laser cannons. flak guns ( sometimes ) Proton Bombs ( sometimes ) Or 192, V-19 Torrent fighters Armed with laser cannons and Concussion missiles 192 Eta-2 Actis-Class Light Interceptors Armed with 2 rapid fire laser cannons 2 ion cannons Around 40 Arc-170 Heavy Fighter/Bombers Armed with 2 medium laser cannons 2 rear mounted laser cannons proton torpedo launcher Around 40 LAAT/i Armed with 3 anti-personal laser cannons 4 composite beam laser turrets Mass-driver missile launchers Light air to air rocket launchers And are capable of carrying various kinds of mines and bombs So long do you think an Imperial-Class Star Destroyer with very little fighter support and no anti-fighter weaponry is going to last against around 400 fighters half of which are armed with ion cannons and the other half some of them have proton bombs, 40 bombers and 40 gunships equipped with powerful beam, missile and rocket weaponry? and those nice and exposed shield globes will be the fighters first target.
the republic star fighters vs imperial tie fighters is like comparing an F-4 phantom(Vietnam war) to a F-18 super hornet(modern fighter) sure tie fighters don't have deflector shields, but there is a reason for that. they are extremly fast and agile. now times that by two, and you get the tie interceptor which if you read the books they do carry interceptors in place of fighters. no republic fighter could even come close to tie fighters maneuverability
+Darius Berdahl Um no they are like that because the tie fighters are literally designed to be quick, cheap and mass produced they are purposely made crappy so that they can be cheaply made, this is even confirmed. Now the tie fighters of the first order now those are actual good fighters but the imperial ones ? complete shit. The clone wars era fighters are better armed as well, and they go just as fast, half of them can go into hyper speed on their own. Even if the imperial ties were actually good and well made, they wouldn't last long against the superior pilots of the clone military or the sheer number of fighters, like seriously? 40 mass produced fighters made in a pretty peaceful era vs over 400 gunships, bombers and fighters designed to be superior combat vehicles during a time of a massive intergalactic war? come on they aren't gonna last long either way.
evan stokely First of all, no the republic starfighters are not near the speed or maneuverability of a tie(especially interceptors). Yes you are right that they are meant to be cheap and easy to produce, but that doesn't mean they are crap. For example, the engine has no moving parts making them both cheaper and low maintenance. As for fire power, completely depends on the fighter. ARC-170? Of course it has more fire power! It was specifically designed to be rugged and deal large amounts of damage. And when you take in account its about, i dont know, DOUBLE the size of a tie fighter, it can afford having more fire power. Now compare a tie fighter to a V-wing, the most numerous fighter it would be fighting in this battle, they're about equal when it comes to firepower. And finally, as the video pointed out, bombers weren't really carried on Venators. Yes on special missions(like malevolence) they carried many bombers. Otherwise, most of the time they didn't.
I think the imperial class might have had internal shields as well. and, I imagine the fighters were for distracting the fighters so the turbolasers could focus fire on the venator. also, the SPHA may annihilate the munificent, but star destroyers have strong armor and deflector shields. even so, I don't know if all venators have SPHA's. also, you really think an old clone wars fighter would compete with modern TIE's? that's like saying a car from the 1970's would be faster than a Lamborghini.
Darius Berdahl No actually a year into the war, most Venators carried Y-Wings as you can see, in the space battle of Ryloth, Umbara, 2nd Invasion of Genesis and the list goes on and on, Venators DO carry at least 2 squadrons of bombers. This battle is like a bear vs a human with a bunch of AI drones carrying mini guns. The mean will die even if he kills the human as the 400 drones will easily finish him off. Even thought TIEs are more manuverable, a bunch of rebels beat squadrons of them, and their training was no where near the level of the clones. The ISDs 40 TIEs would be no match for the Venator's superior fighters and pilots. Also not every ISD carries TIE Interceptors. Let's face it, a Venator can give an ISD more than a fight...1v1 and I still kinda lean towards the Venator TBH from how the Rebellion destroyed ISDs with their limited training and resources
Note: at a number of points, you were showing Victory Class Star Destroyers which are very easy to distinguish from the Imperial Class by trapezoidal plates on each side - see 0:36 for an example. Also, just about every picture of the Imperial Class were actually Imp II's though that I totally sympathize with - the profile looks almost exactly the same with there being basically just one visual difference and there's not a lot of pictures of Imp I's
I think you discounted the fighters a bit too quickly, as it was stated by cannon many consider TIE Fighters cheaper and lesser quality fighters then their predecessors. I think it was stated in legends the Rebels used the old fighters mentioned before transitioning to fighters we are more familiar with and had a higher kill ratio then the Empire. Not to mention of the two, the Republic Cruiser was consider a more prefect design then its predecessor. Granted, if the Star Destroyer got close enough, the Republic Cruiser would still be toast but a long range combat that both sides like to employ, it would have a chance depending on how long it took the Empire to get close.
well the Venator has longer ranged cannons and is faster, so i think it is safe to say the Venator could stay a range and use their fighters to weaken the ISD's defenses and use their cannons to "snipe" the enemy capital ships and the fighters/bombers/etc can do strafing runs causing mass damage on the ISD
This battle doesn't factor several keys points into it. 1) Just because a ship goes down does not mean it's fighters and bombers are suddenly useless. The Venator's attack aircraft would destroy the Tie fighters in little time then go on to attack the Imperial Star Destroyer. 2) Proficiency and efficiency The clones and their officers were made to be as efficient as possible, completing missions at all costs. Whereas stormtroopers and their officers were not. This is highly visible in several engagements where clones and their officers make suicidal moves that win the battle as a whole. Something like Thrawn vs Yularen/Skywalker would make this gap smaller, but even then the latter would not be going straight into battle with a foreseeable plan which would take Thrawn time to pick apart, and time costs lives and ships.
+Fact Free One thing, don't ARC-170's act as a fighter/bomber with the capability to fire photon torpedoes? Also love your videos and keep on producing great content!!!
+Cooper Counts I would say it depends on the mission. The ARC fighters behaved similarly to the X-wing, being versatile and good dog-fighters. There was an instance in the Legends canon when a group of X-wings had their torpedo tubes switched with ion cannons. This match up would probably be a random encounter so the ARC's would have the regular loud-out, but they would be overwhelmed by the TIE swarms and anitfighter turrets. also note that it was rare that a I-class was ever alone, as they generally traveled in duos or trios.
It's the basic argument between pure function and a terror design. The venator was meant to do a job, and do it well. The imperial class was meant to be bugger-all terrifying, and that came with far more umph than it generally needed.
For as much as I agree that the ISD wins in combat, I thought the biggest weakness of the ship were fighters, so if the Venator was able to deploy its fighters, wouldn't they be able to bring down the ISD? Granted the Venator would probably be long destroyed, but would it not be possible for the fighters to destroy the ISD?
General KA Yes but the republic fighters outclass the empire fighters for the most part, and they're severely outclassed, it would slow them down, but the venator wins the fighter battle
That's true. If the Venator could launch all its fighters and bombers, and they focused on the Imperial's bridge and ventral reactor bulge, they could win. Also, the Venator is a smaller target, and more agile.
Hello I watch your videos for Stone time and I like them. But I dissagree with you this time. You forget about SPHAA/T Blast beam in Venators. They were able with it destroy a control ship of confederacy with one attack but IT was slow reloading so if venator desrtoyed maybe a shield generator I think a Venator would win. I am maybe mistaken but its my opinion.
+MineMX a DragSCZ Check it he has a video on that. The laser beam you speak of is acctually a blast from a powerful variant of the AT TE walker, even so it wouldnt be enough
Those were those heavy artillery walkers you saw destroy the droid core ship. They were stored in the lower hangars of the Venator. They weren't a common thing in the hangars. So, it would be unfair if there was some sort of uncommon weapon in there. And plus the shield on the Star Destroyers were VERY STRONG. So I don't think the walker's artillery cannon would penetrate the shielding on the Star Destroyer. I am not trying to bash on you or anything, I'm just correcting your mistakes.
Ya I totally agree. It would just be fun to learn more about the ships and speculate. The Eclipse really was OP though. I wish somebody would do inter-universe comparisons. Like what would happen if the Eclipse and a Covenant Super Carrier from Halo went head to head?
+Brick tator that would actually be really cool but I feel like the eclipse is still many many times larger than the super carriers, at least in my head it is, I'm not actually sure how big the super carriers were but still it'd be pretty intresting
The Covenant CSO Class Super Carrier is actually nearly twice as long as the Eclipse. The Eclipse is around 10 miles where as the Super Carrier is 18 miles long. There is no vessel in the Star Wars Universe larger than the Super Carrier of Halo. In the Halo Universe I believe only the Mantle's Approach, the Didact's ship from Halo 4, is the if not one of the only ships bigger than the Super Carrier A Super Carrier has immense fire power with its plasma torpedoes and energy projectors but going up against a vessel with the firepower to crack a planet's crust with a single blow? If the Eclipse can get a shot off with its super laser I don't see much hope for the Super Carrier, despite its size advantage.
For those wondering about the numbers for top speeds, those are the maximum speeds when in-atmosphere. 975 km/h corresponds to about 80% the speed of sound in an Earth-like atmosphere. Since there is no drag in space, the numbers given are in fact maximum acceleration. For the Venator-class, this is 3000 G (g-forces). This is equivalent to around 29 420 m/s2, and given the speed of light being 299 792 458 m/s, means that without a hyperdrive, it would reach the speed of light in around 2.8 hours. Not exactly great, hence hyperdrives. Source: Wookiepedia. Unfortunately there are no acceleration numbers for Imperial-class star destroyers.
420 star fighters vs 72, venator wins, speed, venator wins, hangar mounted sphat cannon that can crack a star frigate in half, venator wins, the imperial class may be more beefy, but the venator is far more versatile and has more fighter and bomber support to wipe the floor with the imperial class.
Exactly. having huge ships is nothing compared to air power. The V wings and Jedi fighters of the venator can destroy all the tie fighters while ARC fighters and Y wings bombard the star destroyer. All they need to do is destroy the sheuld generators, then bomb the bridge, or do it the old fashioned way and shoot a proton torpedo into an exhaust pipe.
+Jacob Kolb As he mentioned before, the Sphat wasn't part of the standard armament of a Venator. General Skywalker had a few of them mounted with that sort of weapon before the Battle of Coruscant as a test, but it was never widely deployed. Also you have to factor in that the V-19's and V-wings where inferior to Tie (LN) fighters, and only the 36 ARC fighters where capable of harming a Capital Ship. Also, if the Impstar got within weapon range of the Venator while it was deploying it's fighters, the Impstar could have focused its firepower on the hanger bay, and destroyed the ship outright (The Hanger was a known weakness of the Venator. They tried to diminish it by putting very powerful shield generators, and heavy hangar doors, but an Impstar's heavy firepower would punch though that without a whole lot of trouble.
+Jacob Kolb Except if the Destroyer hits the Venator at her weakest point: the main launch bay, with a couple of decent hits through the bay the Venator splits in half...
+Jacob Kolb if the empire would keep the venator class, as for Imperial star destroyer is equal to the destroyers or battleship while venator class can act as carriers
Great job again, I can't wait for another star wars fact video, because every time I try to race to it and; yes, like it, and watch it about 10 times just to make me interested in something when I am bored. And yes I have liked this video :)
in the movie Star Wars revenge of the sith battle over coruscant scene, one venator unleashed a beam of laser towards a separatist ship and completely destroyed it, what was that and would that make a difference in your scenario?
+Sonny Five There were several variants with high powered Lasers, but they were specialised and not common - though the experiences of adding high powered turbo lasers to the Venators influenced the design of the Destroyers
+Sonny Five True, but the ship it destroyed was a comparatively tiny Munificent Class Frigate...the Imperial Star Destroyer was an IMMENSE vessel in comparison, with proportionately stronger shields.
not to argue a point but. again its based on what fighters its carrying. in a 1 on 1 engagement + air compliment the fact that the Venator's 400+ air wing puts it square in the Carrier category... which would have it launching fighters from "standoff range." running with 4-1 odds against the tie fighters and bombers... it would greatly depend on the pilots skills but likely with 4 on 1 odds even with weaker weapons, the older fighters. The nimbus could easy match the TIE fighters for speed and maneuverability so even on 2 on 1 odds alone the edge in air combat would fall to the Ventors. Now heres the tick. the Tie bombers would have to compeate with essentially 4-1 fighters against them they wouldn't be able to make runs on the Ventor class. But the 32 ARC's DO carry Torpedo's. with such heavy cover from the other fighters. the ARC's would be free to do torpedo runs against the shield generators, bridge, and weapons batteries... This would quickly cripple then disable the loan I class. Reason being the I Class lacked the point defense and anti-fighter weapons... more depending on its fighters to maintain air superiority. even if only half of the arc fighters get off 1 shot each on the Destroyer, thats still 32 indivdual torpedo's... thats 10 per shield generator, and 12 into the bridge.
And given that their speeds are about the same (smaller ship with big engines and lower mass gives it a slight edge) the "carrier" could stay out of engagement range while the fighters and attack aircraft cripple the star destroyer, once is guns and hyperdrive are knocked out, THEN the carrier can move in using its own guns to finish off the ship while recovering fighters. Once done it can jump out.
Hey Fact Free, I've looked into this a little in the past and the ISD's were designed by Lira Wessex (designer of the Venerator class), daughter of Walex Blissex (who designed Victory SD's, A/X/Y-wings, etc...). It was only after she married Denn Wessex in or after 20bby that she was able to get the influence to put her design for ISD's into production, which, by the time they had the plans sent to the shipyards, the ships built, stocked, manned and sent out, meant that they only saw action in a few operations at the end of the clone wars. My sources are all from the wookiepedia page under Denn Wessex for the time of their marriage and Lira Wessex but this would put their created date at around 20-19bby. The first ISD was the Executrix, Thanks!
The Imperials made Destroyers. The Republic made strategic Carriers.
+CrimsonGamer99 According to the Anaxes War College System, the Venator and Imperial are both Star Destroyers. The Venator however was designed earlier, and was not as large, and did not incorporate nearly as advanced technologies in terms of power generators- and most of the CIS fleet was retooled mercantile ships- therefore, the Venator still out gunned most everything in the CIS fleet, and the Republic needed more ships faster- so the smaller, lighter armed Venator was the way to go. They also deployed Venators in groups of three or four- whereas the Empire normally only sent a single ISD with a few support ships as well for most situations.
+Isaac Frazier Then empire hardly ever uses a single ISD for anything, until they don't have enough to go around. Then they still surround them with smaller support ships. The Republic ship was perfect as a carrier, and only transported material such as troops ad hoc, the Acclamator was for that. And it only engaged other ships when it had to, the Victory class was for that. The republic was spread so thin during the war that the venator ended up filling the roles of transport and direct combatant, roles it was not intended to do.
CIS warship weren't really retooled mercantile ship as most of the CIS fleet simply lighter ship with far less armour, such as, the Munificent-class star frigate as they had little armour, but bristled with weapons, which made up the back bone of the CIS fleet
Some of the CIS fleet ship carried mass drivers(if you don't know mass driver you can see in the link here=>starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mass-driver_cannon )Also mass driver can pass through shieldings.
The Anaxes-system is wuite stupid. Why would you class ships only by their length? As far as I know it does not even have a destroyer class, puts Star Destroyers in an weird place between heavy cruisers and battlecruisers and claims, that ships over 5km length are so common, that you need an own class to describe them.
In a real world comparision, the Venator Class sounds like t's more like an aircraft carrier, while the I-Class sounds more like a heavy cruiser or Battlecruiser.
+D. R. Yeisley's Creations more or less
+D. R. Yeisley's Creations To which case, Carrier's beat Cruisers and Battleships.
not necessarily. The main anti-ship armament a carrier has is just the aircraft it carries. A carrier would have to stop and launch their aircraft while under fire from a ship that has a minimum range of 10-15 miles.
From things I've read, it takes at least 2 to 5 minutes to launch a fighter from a modern carrier in optimal conditions.
A Scharnhorst class battlecruiser had a firing rate of 3.5 rounds per minute from its main guns.
How would a carrier deck fair against a direct broadside from one of these puppies?
+D. R. Yeisley's Creations Definitely NOT a Battlecruiser. I don't know where people get this from, but Battlecruisers are NOT armored heavily. The original idea was to combine the guns of a Battleship and the speed of a Cruiser.
+D. R. Yeisley's Creations I think we have some mixed comparisons. First, I would throw out the cruiser vs. carrier, and go with battle-cruiser vs battleship. Yes, the smaller ships were lighter, and therefor, supposedly faster. But, in practice, it was the armor that mattered, in both world wars. The heavy armor of the battleships could take hits, and keep fighting, where as the battle-cruisers quickly fell out, or sank.
Ironically I think the Venator's would have been better to combat the rebellion than the ISD was.
yes the empires would have actually been better for dealing with the separatists with is heavy anti swarm firepower. The republic would have been better for the empire with its fighters.
Mark George what about both
Of course ISD has only guns with very less squadrons whereas the venators had many squadrons
I think the Empire decided that planetary invasions wouldn't be as common with the forthcoming of the Death Star so they abandoned the idea of a troop and ship transport like the Venator.
@@markgeorge2200 Sorry Mark but the ISDs did not do well against fighters. It has virtually no point defense weapons.
In a direct shooting battle the Imperial 1 wins, no doubt about that, but carriers are superior to battleships in tactical engagements. The Imperial 1 Star Destroyers were built to annihilate capital ships, but they were entirely dependent on their TIE fighters for point defense. In a fight where the Venator can can avoid ever directly exchanging fire with the Imperial I think it would win pretty easily. The Imperial 1 Star Destroyers don't have any weapons facing backwards, so if their fighter picket was destroyed they would become easy targets for even small fleets of bombers.
Aetrion Actually the Turbolasers mounts on both Star Destroyers are capable at turning a full 360 degrees.
Patrick Donnolley That doesn't mean they can shoot a full 360°, the superstructure and other turrets get in the way.
Aetrion True.
"In a fight where the Venator can can avoid ever directly exchanging fire with the Imperial I think it would win pretty easily. The Imperial 1 Star Destroyers don't have any weapons facing backwards, so if their fighter picket was destroyed they would become easy targets for even small fleets of bombers".
They do haver point defenses in the back as well. One X-wing was destroyed in in Return of the Jedi from a turbolaser blast from a Star Destroyer, even when they where behind it.
And it should be noted that modern day carrier tactics doesn't really work that well in Star Wars. Torpedoes aren't that reliable against armored ships, as was seen a few times in the battle of Endor when proton torpedoes harmlessly exploded even against the bridge tower. There are also a lot of massive explosions around the larger warships that doesn't cause any damage at all.
It would also be very hard for the Venator to avoid the Imperator as hyperspace allows for very precise jumps, which would allow the Imperator to jump right next to the Venator.
onlypeaceindeath Hyperspace doesn't work in gravity wells, asteroid belts or nebula. It's pretty easy to negate enemies jumping on you as a possibility if you're fighting inside of a star system. Making a jump that precise is also extremely difficult. On top of that both ships are capable of jumping, so any advantage from it would be momentary at best.
Fighters are extremely effective against capital ships in Star Wars, the whole reason why every Star Destroyer carries a bunch of TIE fighters is because the biggest danger to them are bombers, not enemy capital ships. I don't know where you get the notion that fighters can't hurt Star Destroyers, if that was true the Rebellion wouldn't have ever won a single battle.
I prefer the look of the venator class destroyer
Everyone does lol
I like clones
Especially when its made of lego like it is in the thumbnail
Yup those big ass stripes looks so cool
I find all the equipment the Republic was using far superior to the Empires equipment.
The shields on the republic cruisers were made entirely of pure plot armor
Implying that they stayed alive because it had main characters? Cause from what I have seen 80% end up getting damaged or blown to bits.
Chris Karapetyan
As soon as the main character leaves, the plot armor is lost.
+Chris Karapetyan and the 20% had jedi on them. Maybe.....
Dr. Spy They leave because the ship is going down. Literally 80% of the time the jedi leaves because they are evacuating (watch the entire Clone Wars if you want proof)
SwegmeisterJ This is solely based from Clone Wars but Anakin got injured once, they evacuated the whole ship because it was about to blow and crashed it into enemy ship, and Boba blew up a capital ship injuring 2 jedi while killing a lot of clones. (I could find out more if I wanted to go rewatch it)
Design wise, which ship do you like better?
+Fact Free Can you do a video about what happened to the Trade Federation after revenge of the sith?
+LYNESTAR revenge of the sith* they were around during the clone wars.
Venator Class
venator class
+Fact Free Venator
Anyone notice Lego?
yep
yes
where
+Santos at the end
Used to own that lego ship :')
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare Venator to Victory-class Star Destroyer?
Yes definitely, and they could both win in the situation as well.
Yeah, the ISD is overkill
The Republic ship was more of an aircraft carrier type than a battleship.
I remember reading a book a long time ago, one of the dozens of really shit to meh expanded universe ones that had a single Venator class ship being manned by a crew in nowhere space after the fall of the empire. It was buggy old husk that was in needed of constant repairs and was never decommissioned due to it's patrol being in nowhere space around un-developed worlds.
Years passed with the commander of the ship listening to reports of the Empire tearing itself apart. His ship was never ordered to do anything but occasionally send food transports from a few local farm worlds. Soon, those shipments stopped and the ship was effectively alone. It was eventually found by a rebel controlled Imperial 2 star destroyer.
The rebels commanded the ship to surrender, noting that the empire was no more and that their old husk of a ship stood no chance of winning any engagement.
The commander stood there, options going on in his head. Half the ships weapons were non-functional due to age, the fighter compliment was of old pre clone wars ships with only a dozen modified transport ships as makeshift bombers. Even the ships power core was running at less than half capacity due to age; many sections of the ship had frequent brownouts.
He agreed to surrender to the rebels for clemency for him and his men. The rebels agreed and moved in on the old ship, some of them astonished that such and old vessel was still in service. That's when the commander struck, he in intentionally blew out two of his engines, sending the ship in a ramming course with the imperial star destroyer. It crashed into the size and grinded up against the ship, blocking all the fighter bays on the left side.
He then ordered all the fighters they could get out into kamikaze ramming attacks on he ship, dealing heavy damage to the star destroyer. Both of them being triangles neither of them could get very effective fire on each other (Most of the guns being on the top and bottom of the ship and not the side where he rammed). His last communication to the rebels was something along the lines of "Long live the empire, die rebel filth!" He pressed a button and the ship self destructed, taking half the star destroyer with it.
In he days following most of the crew compliment on the star destroyer died from lack of life support systems, mostly due to the few shuttle bombers that made it out the bays of the venator class destroyer blowing up large sections of what remained of the hull. They did manage to finally get some systems on line with emergency power, shooting down the harassing bombers. But out of the entire crew compliment barely 700 survived. They were eventually rescued by a Mon-calimari cruiser patolling a nearby system.
Moral of the story; never under estimate an enemy, no matter the size. Especially when hes forgotten more about the ship you are using than you will ever know.
What is this Venator called?
Old comment but morale of the story is war crimes make winning easier
You should do the Imperial I-class Star Destroyer vs The Lucrehulk-class Droid Control Ship.
+Raptormon “Raptormon132” OneThreeTwo I don't think that would even be a match. The droid control ship was more of a troop transport since it originally started out as trade ships.
+Richard Lew But later in the Clone Wars, Lucrehulks have strong shields, armour and powerful cannons. But the Imperial 1-class Star Destroyer would more likely to destroy it
gafa ghafari
I don't think so. The Lucrehulk-class Droid Control Ship is about 3 times bigger than the Imperial 1-class Star Destroyer, has a bigger use of fighters, and has just as many powerful cannons as the Star Destroyer. So I think Lucrehulk-class Droid Control Ship would destroy a Star Destroyer one-on-one.
+Raptormon “Raptormon132” OneThreeTwo I ones read an encyclopedia that 1 Imperial 1-class Star Destroyer could destroy an entire Lucrehulk ships in minutes. And the Star Destroyer could easily destroy it without shields right?
gafa ghafari
I'm not sure. I don't know what to think of it.
The problem with your conclusion is that these are two different classes of ships in the same design familiy, lighter ships usualy have the mobility and manuverablity advantage over heavier ships. In real warfare heavy ships are used to provide fire support for the smaller more agile ships. And a ship of any size, especially a heavy ship, would rarely operate alone aside from special missions (like Vader's in A New Hope). The Republic Cruiser costs almost a third of the cost of 1-class Star Destroyer, so it would almost certainly be traveling with another cruiser and/or a pair of frigates if it was expected to face a Star Destoryer. Each Republic cruiser also carried an obscene number of starfighters compared to the Star Destroyer, so the Republic fighters would do much more than distract the Imperial fighters. Each TIE fighter was roughly equal to the Republic Interceptors they were developed from, while being far inferior to the other Republic fighters (which is why the Rebel fighters developed from these models were often seen dominating the aerospace during the Galactic Civil War) . And the ARC-170 is a Strike-Fighter (or Fighter-Bomber depending on the Squadron) meaning it was Multi-role like the Cruiser itself. Once the first wave of Republic fighters cut a path through the TIE fighters/bombers/interceptors the ARC-170s and any other strike capable ships could focus on taking out the Destroyer's shields, weapons, and other critical systems ahead of any serious exchange between the Capital ships. It would be unlikely that a Single Star Destroyer would survive against two Republic Cruisers.
+Mike Mac Ultimately that would take alot longer (especially with fewer bombers) then it would for a star destroyed to use its absurd firepower to obliterate a much weaker cruiser. Off course the Venator has fighter superiority, but fighters cant really do much in a quick amount of time against main cannons and the TIE fighters act more as a distraction. If you look at the use of capital ships in the civil war, they are used alot less by the rebellion because of their ineffective against a star destroyer which is designed to take down other capital ships.
+Vy canon It's all about the class and purpose. Star Destroyers were simply made to destroy, and were less effective in other roles.
Vy canon The Venator had more Strike-Fighters than the Star Destroyer had Bombers. Ignoring that the other Fighters were also Strike Capable the Venator easily out classed the Star Destroyer tactically. And again most of the weapons, bridge, and other vital systems on the Star Destroyer would be vulnerable to Strikes from the Venator's deployed fighters, meaning the Imperials wouldn't necessarily have fire superiority over the Venator, or that the Star Destroyer would even have active shields by the time it engaged the Venator. If you look at how smaller strike ships are used against heavier ships in real warfare you'd see that The heavy ships don't often survive when engaged by medium sized ships supported by deployed strike vessels.
Agree with this conclusion, this video discounts naval tactics almost completely. bigger heavy ships with their lack of quick quick maneuvers to lighter heavily gun mounted ship ignores to its peril the light Destroyer concept. which has proven throughout history to be a deciding factor in Naval Warfare. the carrier adding extra depth and dimension to a Admirals strike capability.
the Bismarck and Yamato almost quintessential stereotypes to the ultimate Dreadnought shortcoming.
Michael Kapela I think we can agree that the scenario proposed in this video would be an interstellar version of the Battle off Samar
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar
Imperial Star destroyers are equal to Tiger tanks, and republic cruisers are like M4 shermans
+Derf565 That's a surprisingly accurate comparison. I wonder if a heavily modified Republic Cruiser would fit the role of the Firefly modified Sherman of the British, which had the capability to stand up to the Tiger, although some good tactics were still needed.
+Reon Thornton
I don't think those sort of tactics would work there. The main and pretty much only tactic the Sherman could utilize was its small size and high speed to flank behind cover... In space there is no cover. Its a straight up face to face confrontation, not with projectile weapons with have to be leaded to hit a target, but with laser based weaponry which pretty much will never miss.. Its a purer armour+shields vs armour and firepower vs firepower fight. In a realistic Star Wars (proper physics) the Empire would win every fight hands down.
Fernando Cárdenas Do you even know what the Firefly is? It's a Sherman with slightly better armour, but a massive cannon that could penetrate Tiger armour much better. It was from the standard US 76mm to a 105mm if I remember right.
As for tactics, you got to monitor shield and weapon energy, haven't you? As well as what to target first. The tactics change, but they don't vanish.
+Reon Thornton The ass of a Star Destroyer is quite large. I doubt a Star Destroyer would be able to shoot much behind it...
;)
Fernando Cárdenas not really, it costs 3 times as much to build an imperial star destroyer. given the right tactics 3 Republic Cruisers could take out an imperial star destroyer.
1:44 is actually a Victory-class Star Destroyer, not an Imp Star I.....
Yeah Mistake
Keep up the great work Fact Free
+Shrekling Thanks!
+Fact Free What about the Venator Cruiser's SPHA-T laser?!
+Fact Free would you mind if you could make a video about all of the space ships for each faction; Republic, Empire, Rebels, separatists etc...
+Fact Free Are going to do an imperial star destroyer vs imperial Harrower? Old vs new?
2:19 We were this close to the verge of greatness, this close
I completely agree even though I love the Venator.
You can't argue with facts
+Crappy Nappy Although, the Republic does have one ace up it's sleeve...
The Mandator Class Star Dreadnought!!!!
Fighter superiority though.
nah, 400+ starfighters will decimate an imperial 1. The Venator captain must be smart enough to stay just out of range for the ISD turbolaser fire to do minimal damage overall. Venators are still star destroyers at the end of the day and they are tough, and the carrier aspect is just broken af on them.
I think that you're SEVERLY underestimating the carrier advantage of the Venator. The ARC is an amazing fighter and a decent bomber. Both V-Wings and V19s have missile launchers that can damage capital ships. The Y-wings would only need a few hits to totally disable the ISD. The ISD could be damn near dead before the Venator even had to get in range.
975 km/h??? That is as "fast" as a commercial airliner... how did they ever get anywhere? Even the ISS is travelling at around 28000 km/h (about 17500 mph). With that speed it would take them over 16 days to get from earth to the moon....
That speed doesn't include the hyperdrive. That's just the max speed when they are out of hyperspace :)
I think thats atmospheric flight, which would make sense.
Admit it its per second not per hour
So you're saying during the chase in the Empire Strikes back the star destroyer that was pursuing the Millenium Falcon was moving at 606 MPH?
Jeremy parker mps not mph A normal spacecraft in our realm moves at speed around 4km/s because the spacecrafts in star wars have a perceivable movement they must move faster the distances in outer space are are huge the distance between moon and Earth is 384400 Km . So to optically perceive a movement on that scale that movement has to be very fast or an object damn huge. A star destroyer may seem huge but it is a merely a size of a big asteroid. Which isn't that big either.
150,000,000 Credits?! Not 150,000,000,000 Credits?! And only 48 TIE fighters? Only 606 MPH?! Geez - this sounds like crap!
+Dakkar Nemo i think thats in atmosphere, not in space.
+MetalliacFeather Star Destroyers don't have enough upward lift for sustained atmospheric flight.
you forgot to mention that the venators have a shield disabling beam that could cause major damage to the Imperial I-class Star Destroyer's
doesent the imperial have a tractor beam? instead of an ion cannon
They have both
That is definently a factor. I think your right about the laser being able to do some solid damage to the ISD, but I feel that its just not enough to make much of a difference.
The Venator is a ship designed as a multipurpose fighter carrier, while the ISD is mostly intended for capital ship warfare. I love the venator, but it's just to outdated of a ship to even compare to the ISD.
They don't have shield disabling beam it's a ion beam
+Jack Benney Having read the wiki, i'm just basing my info after the ships in Empire At War. In that game the Venator's beam weapon does heavy damage to ships and space stations through shields.
Are we not taking into account the SAPH-T blast from the Venator?
Those were not standard issue on Venators, just a mod made to the ones in Anakin and Kenobis fleet
All hail the Galactic Empire!!!
NIEN! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
+xX Valtiel Xx i actually do think the galactic empire was a better system compare to the old republic
the empire is weeeak
+MrBing90 cos is not stupid and Repúblic isn't stupid sidious is leader the two
Hail The Galactic Empire!!! Please the republic has nothing on The Empire. Republic be like "we have better troops than you"
Empire be like "blows planet up"
I prefer the Republic Cruisers; love how more sleek they are. If you ask me the Prequel-era Empire as a whole had better looking troops (Phase II Clones) and starships. (Vader's Sith Starfighter, V-Wings, all-grey RCs, etc.)
6:15 that's a lego version of the venator star destroyer
and?
I think he’s aware lol
wow. we've found something that the empire is actually BETTER at than the republic army
Finally
*Basically all Navy*
Yeah finally.....
Well, actually, the Empire *does* have better super weapons.
I think that's debatable. What kind of retards design a super weapon with a colossal weakness? Just saying.
Colossal weakness is a bit of an overstatement, It was a one meter by one meter ventilation shaft that turned at a *ninety degree angle* at the end of a highly guarded ravine. What kind projectile immetiatly curves at a ninety degree angle, then heads directly down for kilometers on end (answer, one shot by space wizards)? No way the engineers could have accounted for that.
"This is going to be a versus between an IMPERIAL FIRST CLASS..."
While this is being spoken the images of a Venator Class and Imperial SECOND Class are on screen.
*Sorry I made a small mistake. The crew of the Venator-Class Star Destroyer is actually 7,400 not 2,000* I've added an annotation in the video correcting this mistake.
Free fact can you do a vs of the droid starfighter vs the imperial tie fighter please
+Fact Free Hey, could you do a video on the different super star destroyers and who they "belonged" too? Also, with the Venator, the ship capacity, is that combined or how much it could hold if there were no other ships in the hangar? Yet again, does the Imperial star destroyer have enough armor to with stand a ramming attack from a Venator?
You missed a very key component... The crew. A ship is only as good as the crew running it. And I remember seeing more insubordination amongst storm troopers than clones. Also if you want a real example of why this is a factor, look at the H.M.S. Titanic, the ship was supposedly unsinkable. Maybe even the best ship out there at the time, but although the ship did what it was designed to do. Shut chambers and prevent leaks. The crew missed the iceberg and didn't do all that much after the initial collision. The crew failed the boat.
+Fact Free You should use both old essential guide to vehicles and vessels as well as the new essential guide to vehicles and vessels. You could probably just read the pages word for word and still be completely accurate.
+Fact Free Also at 37 sec thats a Victory 2 star destroyer
i would still say the republic ship was better for full scale war. Why? its almost 3x times cheaper to make
Bandai Yugioh We would be talking more on the lines of 290 Republic Cruisers for every 100 Imperial star destroyers. and in drawn out war the Republic could simply adapt.
Its kinda like the t34 vs the tiger
+lordofdarkdudes Or the Shermans.
For every one Tiger produced, America could produce four Shermans. The mixture of reliability and numbers was instrumental in the battles they won, as at least one could flank and take advantage of the weak spot by the engine.
+Bandai Yugioh without point defense the number of fighters would overwhelm the class I star destroyers fighter compliment and then the bombers would have free shots to target the weapons systems engines and shield generators.
+Captain Awesome actually the Sherman kicked Tigers ass. all that shit about Sherman Platoons getting fucked up by lone Tiger tanks was actually bullshit.
Joseph Ahner Eh no, the later models the easy 8's could match the tigers in firepower but they were never better than the tiger. And the some tiger actully did fuck up whole colums of sherman mostly due to the fact that the german army hade more aces in the field than the allies, due to the fact that most aces in the allied armys were sent home to train new tank drivers
Venator is so cool looing one.
Can you do a video on the actual galactic republic senate? Like how the government actually works? No one has ever done that I think. Like which worlds have senators to vote for bills and such. I would love it if you could have a video about the senate( clone wars era or empire era)
"The imperial destroyer was specifically designed to destroy things" - can I quote you on that?
Now that I think about it, this would be pretty cool to see in rebels
Please do a video about force sensitivity.
Does power in the force grow through feats, or bloodline?
The emperor was once fearful of continuing to train Ventress as Dooku's apprentice because of her power, even though he was arguably the strongest sith lord to ever live, while Anakin was said to possibly best even Yoda and the Emperor combined, although he was a product of the force.
Luke as well was said to have the same force potential Anakin had. So how does growth in force power occur?
The Imperial Star Destroyer is only 150 million credits?! An F-22 fighter jet costs $339 million per aircraft XD
Theaqwert11 maybe a Credit is worth more than a Dollar :/
that's one hell of an exchange rate... lol
Nabil Mahmood Pissbaby. ;3
The galaxy is large so metal would be extremely common like dirt. So it would be cheaper
The cost of the F-22 is not because the metals are expensive, though. Large gov't contracts bring in larger overheads. The empire was probably worse than our current US gov't for corruption. Lastly, 1 USD is not the same as 1 made up Imperial credit.
Except (A) Those are the Imperial 2 statistics I believe, and (B) the Venator is much faster, both in sunlight and hyperspace, with a larger fighter compliment, 3 fighter bays for much faster deployment, superior fighters (ones that are actually a threat to capital ships, unlike TIEs), and the advantage of concealed shield generators that, unlike those on the ImpStar, are not a glaringly obvious target for fighters. The Imperial does have heavier weapons, but lacks any form of ordinance launcher, and with fewer and inferior fighters has a minuscule range. The Venator merely has to use Carrier strategies. Keep moving to stay out of range while its fighters tear the ImpStar to pieces.
+Devin Gendron The thing is that the Venator can use Carrier strategies for the beginning of the battle. He launches his 420 fighters (with superior armaments (the V-Wing carries 4 lasers cannons, the Actis Eta-2 2 lasers cannons (remember what they did to the Invisible Hand batteries) and 2 ion cannons and the ARC-170, while being slower, has more armament (4 cannons + Torpedos + turret) and hyperdrive allowing them to use Rebellion's raid tactics to destroy, let's say shield generators or heavy batteries BEFORE the beginning of the the battle) and you can replace some (let's say shuttles) by Y-Wing to gain anti-ship capabilities). On the other hand the Imperial-I has 48 superiority fighters and 12 TIE-Bombers (useless against the 420 fighters) and nearly no AAA defence (this is the reason of the advantages of the Rebellion against isolated Star Destroyers). Not mentioning the Republic pilots are actually clones which are raised for combat against swarms of numerically superior droid fighters and in general excellent pilots.
The 420 fighter can attack the Destroyer at close range (same tactics as used against the Death Star) and destroy batteries, shield, reactors and other vital parts. When the Imperial-Star Destroyer is vulnerable enough (no escape possible, no shield, extremely reduced armament) the Venator can come in range and fire all it's weapons. You have to remember the DBY-827 isn't just a heavy dual-turbolaser turret but an extremely versatile weapon with, on high power mode can fire at great distances (probably greater than the range of the Imperial-class) and making extremely high damages (if the Venator had to fight Munificent- or Recusant-class ships, there were also effective against the extremely powerful Providence class destroyers. And more, they had to fight (in groups) the 3000m long, 3000m large Lucrehulk battleships carrying 1500 fighters, equipped with 48 turbolasers + 164 quad lasers + ... and escorted (ships of that size are in general flagships/command ships)). At medium range, on the even more vulnerable target, they can increase fire rate without loosing damage (and with the same overheat risk level). Finally, the Venator can come to close range and act as a ship of the line, loosing half of the turbolasers and all of the torpedos but allowing the use of Driller Missiles (there's not a lot of documentation in English on these but there is in French. They are the canons used by the Republic against the Invisible Hand when the Guarlara come at close range in Revenge of the Sith. They're designed to go through the heavy shielded, extremely well-armoured Providence-class Destroyer. On a shield-less Imperial-I, it would make extremely high damages).
In short, in a duel, the Venator-class will win. In every case, a fleet of Venator, if they can separate the Imperials, will win. The problems of the Clone Wars is that there were a lot of blockade breaking or defence battles against numerically superior enemies (a single Lucrehulk carries 1500 fighters).
In fact, the video compared shielding and firepower. It's precisely the error the Empire did when they underestimated the utility of mobility and air superiority: using the Venator with Rebellion (or just common sense) tactics is unfair, if not overkilled (not mentioning the fact that the Republic fleet had numerous Jedi's (as tacticians or pilots). It's even worse if a Jedi tactician is a user of the battle meditation. This power can turn a 10v1 battle (like the Battle of Endor) in a fair fight by considerably boosting the morale, stamina, and overall battle prowess of an individual's allies while simultaneously reducing the opposition's combat-effectiveness by eroding their will to fight. In this case, fire power doesn't even matter and there is no chance (even for numerically superior Imperial force).
Loïc van der Wielen Exactly my point, though in far greater detail, credit where credit is due. I chose to discount the superiority of Clone Pilots and Republic Commanders, as well the benefits offered by Jedi, so as to treat this as a matter of technology. This is a bit of hyperbole, but put Thrawn behind a Correllian cruiser and he could take on an ImpStar Deuce if he wanted to. The Empire learned nothing from the Clone Wars, with Republic technology superior in almost every respect (Save in the highly specialized field of super weapons, and even the Death Stars are dwarfed by Old Republic Era weapons like the Star Forge or the Dark Harvester).
Devin Gendron
Same goes for Gilad Pellaeon (I would love to see those two in the Canon). But we're beginning to enter something extremely specific (maybe did I with the battle meditation but there is always a probability a Jedi is trained to use it). On the other hand, Jedi's (alone or in group) were extremely common and clones standard for Republic ships.
The thing with the Empire is that he always wanted to inspire fear. This force him to use big ships but also in mass, downgrading fighter and other technologies to be less costly (despite other existing TIE fighters being far more effective than the TIE/In. Like the Defender). These ships were also largely made against other big ships and so good at destroying them they annihilate any chance to see another warship attacking them directly. (Same goes with the Germans in the Pas-de-Calais. They fortified the region so much, they destroyed any chance to see an Allied attack on it, even if the Allies did everything to make them think they will attack there).
Loïc van der Wielen Yep. The Empire definately downgraded when it came down to it. It's kind of sad thinking about that Stormtroopers were supposed to be the elite soldier of the Empire, their equivalent to the US Marine Corps. And TIE Fighters are a joke as a fighter. One of my favorite EU Quotes, from Corran Horn: "Your Basic Seinar Fleet Systems TIE/ln starfighter, which, after stupidity and hydrogen, were the 3rd most common thing in the galaxy."
5:14 Lego Venator-class Star Destroyer XDDDD
Imperial Star Destroyer picture from a comic book or large hunk of plastic fighting FOR THE REPUBLIC!!!
Thanks for the amazing work that goes into those videos
I agree with everything you said except I feel that if 2 Republic "cruisers" (or light carrier is maybe a better name) were able to launch their full compliment of fighters and equip them for striking a capital ship, they might do better.
Right off the back you're wrong. The Victory Class came right after the clone wars, and before the Imperial mark I.
retconned, before the old EU died, Impstar-I was developed and built during the Clone Wars mainly as prototypes, and the Old Republic used Victory-Is in the last year of the war..
Victory I Class saw service in the Clone Wars, and the Victory II was produced shortly afterward. Actually the Imperial I Class Star Destroyer was developed during the Clone Wars, and saw extremely limited use. Like a handful existed in total during the Clone Wars.
Hahaha, i just realized that the Venator in the beginning of the Video was made out of legos.
"the Imperial Destroyer was built specifically to destroy things."
No, really?
Miss the old days of the Republic.
For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the Dark Times...before the Empire.
One must not forget that the venator class used Driller missiles ( as seen when canon manned by clones are fired during the battle of Coruscant ). Such missiles are able to pierce through shields.
Back in the old days, I always say "Oh-no" when Star Destroyers appear.
"Long Live The Empire"
In a one-on-one fight then yes, an imperial star destroyer would win, but republic assault cruisers where mass prdoduced more than imperial star destroyers, so for every imperial star destroyer, there'ed(there would be) about three republic ships bs one imperial star destroyer, so in my opinion, in an all out war, the republic would win since they have more numbers, are more nimble and have quality troops, even though they are not a heavy army compared to the Empire. That's my opinion anyway
+Elias Padilla Actually the Empire has a much greater number of ships than the Republic, they took over the Republic Navy so the Republic can't have more ships than the Empire and to oppress hundreds of star systems with military strengths they need a great number of ships and from what I have read the Empire used over 25.000 ships of the Imperial-class.
Dude the empire has way more resources than the republic. They managed to build 2 death stars for gods sake so of course they had the largest navy
+Skoombit the first order built hundreds of mega Death Stars
+Vaill well then holy crap, looks like the republic is weaker than I thought
+Elias Padilla no they didnt....
This is probably my favorite video you’ve made
MC-80 vs Imperial Star destroyer
to be lazy, just look up the reactor power of both ships. The ship with the stronger reactor wins (as warships really ust turn the reactor power into laser power)
So if the same amount of credits were spent on each fleet, because of how cheap the Venators were in comparison, the Star Destroyers would just be overwhelmed.
however dont forget the venator class as you pointed out carries a lot more fighters including Y-wing bombers v-wing arc170 and later on the sealed version of the Laat and laat/c
Sure the star destroyer had more guns then the republic cruiser but the republic cruisers guns are of a much higher caliber and it possess a much more powerful air wing
The piranha Wins Actually the cannons on a Venator rivalled the main battery of the Imperial-1.
The guns on a Imperial Star Destroyer are actually much larger than a Venator's guns. And it has a larger reactor which will supply the guns with more power.
onlypeaceindeath True.
cool video I dug it. kudos on the delivery as well... some of these videos I can barely sit through due the narrator not being able to read aloud too well.
U forgott about the Special Weapon of the Rep Cruiser
An Apollo era ship flew 5000 mph to the moon.
A modern cargo ship carries more than 25,000 tons of cargo.
The numbers mentioned at 1:45 are off by at least two full magnitudes.
mrthebillman I believe the top speed refers to in-atmosphere
Mark Shanahan that is still insanely slow. Space Shuttles get up to 2.63km/s break the pull of the Earth's gravity. To put it in perspective, if the damn thing only went 603 mph in atmosphere, it would have a similar power to weight ratio of a Boeing 737, who's cruise speed is 578 mph. even if it went 603 m/s it would still be too heavy and slow to break atmosphere.
SoldierMedic hyper space tho
what about the torpedoes??
4 correlian corvettes vs 1 star destroyer
You make the assumption that the ISD and VSD would utilize the same tactics. The ISD is more of a battlecarrier and the VSD is more of a true carrier that would rely more on carrier style tactics than the ISD. Combining an overall fighter complement more than 3 times the ISD and higher quality fighters than said ISD, the VSD has the capability to knock out an ISD if it utilizes carrier style tactics.
Imperial Star Destroyer vs First Order Finalizer would make for an interesting video.
The finalizer is a larger and more advanced version of the ISD. I think the Finalizer would win.
Yes, but it would still be an interesting video nonetheless.
CNSD75I yes, yes it is
CNSD75I it'd wipe the floor with the isd
I somewhat disagree on two points. Firstly, like we see in the clone vs storm trooper fights, I believe that the better experience and general competence of the crews of the Venator would be a major factor. And the second would be that I believe that the proton torpedos on the Venator would be able to cause substantial damage to the Imperial 1, as we saw in the opening scene of revenge of the sith when a Venator class was able to completely blast a CIS cruiser in half with a single hit. Thirdly I want to point out that the superstructure mounted shield generators on an imperial 1 star destroyer have been shown to be an exploitable weakness in the films.
That being said, it would still be a difficult battle, and the venator would definitely suffer critical damage during the battle, and in my mind the imperial 1 would still win the majority of the battles, but the venator would not make it easy either.
+speed150mph Oh, I forgot to mention in the video that in these fights I usually have the crews/pilots of the vehicles be of equal competence, as it's more of a verses between the vehicles and not crews. Also the big laser you're talking about in the opening scene in Episode 3 was actually from a Self-Propelled Heavy Artillery gun (the big guns used on Geonosis to bring down the fleeing spherical droid "factories") that was in the hanger of that Venator, and was not an actual weapon a part of the ship itself. Also I've read an explanation long ago as to why the star destroyers during Endor were brought down so easily, I'll see if I can find it and if so I'll get back to you. Hope I've cleared some things up. Thanks for watching!
+Fact Free Where do you get all this info about star wars vehicles and other things?
Angry Antalope A lot of it comes from the book: Star Wars Complete Cross-Sections. Here are the two pages I used for some of the number parts for this video: i.imgur.com/mivTFfR.jpg i.imgur.com/E1TiotP.jpg
Fact Free Oh, ok. Thanks :)
Angry Antalope No problem :)
I'm the only one who noticed that the Venator in the thumbnail is made of LEGOs?
The Imperial Star Destroyer would most likely win.
Though I personally prefer them getting mixed into one star destroyer I have seen one and it's pretty good looking.
Am I the only one that thinks the republic cruiser looks a lot like jar jar binks? Especially looking at it from a front on view point. It's even coloured the same as jar jar. 🤔
+Richard Shannon ......
Pls no
No
No pla
Fuck your right, his eyes stinking out from the top of his head....good call.
Fun fact. 0:36 drawing of the Imperial I-class Star Destroyer is a Victory Class Destroyer.
I disagree. The one who dominates the air, dominates the battle. The Venator has more fighters. The Rebels were able to down Star Destroyers in the Battle of Endor despite being considerably weaker and having only a small fleet of fighters and bombers. Heck, an X-Wing multirole fighter was able to down the shields of a Super Star Destroyer and an A-Wing finished it off Kamikaze-style. That should tell you something.
Luke's Journal reveals to us that Rebel pilots were no joke either. Their quality over quantity and expertise allowed them to hold their own against the quantity of TIE Fighters (and TIE pilots were skilled no doubt). Luke ran a simulation and was able to take on a Star Destroyer's entirety of fighters, which Biggs chuckled at in an expectant manner. The films have always shown the skill of the Rebel pilots to outmatch the vulnerabilities of the TIE. Yes, they do eventually succumb to the swarm, but not before taking many TIEs with them.
I think Lucas designed the Clone Wars fighters to be a harking back to the Rebel tech, having quality before diverging into the Imperial-realm quantity, just swarming the opponent. Combine swarm with skill, and quality, and the Star Destroyer is up against a lot. The Star Destroyers were increased in quality, but it was probably to offset their new ideology of a mass produced TIE (much like their mass recruitment of Stormtroopers), and even then the Star Destroyers still had their vulnerabilities.
You watch the films, they had trouble with small fighters. They couldn't even catch or destroy the Millennium Falcon. Their TIE fighters were quickly destroyed. The fighter cannot destroy the Star Destroyer, but the Star Destroyer cannot easily destroy the fighter. The fighter CAN hurt the Star Destroyer by attacking critical and vulnerable targets. If the Venator can maintain fighter superiority, those fighters could effectively disable the ship by attacking its shields, weapon systems, and engines. Then it's a sitting duck and the Venator as well as its fighters can take their pick on how to destroy the Star Destroyer.
This is why I think a Venator, and moreso two Ventators, as more than a match for the Imperial Star Destroyer. The Venator would not be in a direct confrontation with the Star Destroyer. It would opt to avoid the direct fire power of it by either flanking it (like the Rebels did in the Battle of Endor) or staying out of its range and focusing on fighter superiority.
Unless we are talking , say, Anakin here as leading the Venator-class ship. Then of course he'd just rush in and try to absorb the brunt of it like some kind of game of bloody knuckles. He'd just have the ship sit there and slowly killed (like he does in the Clone Wars, which cost him ships and even forced him to retreat). Then yeah, you're right. The Venator is screwed.
+HaloModder555 About the first paragraph: The only thing this tells me, rather reminds me is that Mr.Lucas could not make believable enemies. TIE fighters are not only cheaper fighters but they are good too. Naturally not X-Wing good, but they could still outrun an X-Wing. I also think that X-Wings were a waste of money and resources anyway. Why the hell would you need life support on a fighter? Hyperdrive? Of course because guerilla strikes are easier without a big ass mon-calamari luxury yacht... warship appearing. Anyhow, gotten off track. So GL could never set up good enemies thats why I kinda don't like the movies. Droids are an army of imbecile idiots barely even capable of anything, stormtroopers barely even able to aim. This makes a movie pretty darn boring if you ask me. The huge galactic empire that even had authority in backwater planets like Tatooine-what the bureaucratic republic were never able to establish, and the actual Empire who could has only incompetent soldiers? TIE fighter pilots getting shot down by a defector and a hobo on Jakuun, who only flied in like the first time? Now thats just stupid and I had enough of incompetent enemies. It really just broke star wars for me (not the first time, I loved it as a child) but now... This is why the EU is better. Well sometimes.
+littlejohnny41 Rebels had to rely on quality over quantity for the sake of their small force. Yes, the TIEs were advanced but not many pilots were able to take advantage of their full potential before being shot down. During the first film and second films, the whole point was to lure the enemy to the Imperial Navy. Through the Force, the Rebels succeeded. Good guys gotta win.
I do get that good guys gotta win (even if I don't like this fact, I mean there were six episodes, in all of them good guys won. Even in the Revenge of the Sith- after all jedi succeded to pass their ridiculous view on the force and the universe -there should be at least 1-2 movies where the Empire or the CIS gets the unquestionable victory) but the fact that Star Wars movies NEVER set up an enemy thats actually smart, disciplined, outplays the enemy at least 1-2 times. By having incompetent or imbecile enemies (like stormtroopers and droids) you really just "kill" the entire movie, since you know that no matter what happens good guys gotta win. There is no close calls there is nothing interesting, no plot twists, and whats worse, is that the enemy becomes unbelievable and because of that the entire movie will two. I get that the Empire just recruited anyone it could, but they still get a good amount of training. Even the CIS, with its big menacing army, were ruined right when it was cleared that the B1 battledroids are idiots. General Grievous, an amazing character from books, an expert with lightsaber combat in the movies and that annoying stupid clone wars series was just a pathetic weak coward, barely ever defeating anyone, without his amazing tactical genius that elevated him to his rank of supreme commander of the droid army. Books described that when his ship- the Invisible hand appeared in orbit, there were occasions where the entire planet just surrender. But in the movies he was just... ruined. That is my real problem. I mean not only the General but like every enemy, or villain.
+littlejohnny41 Also, I like to think of the Rebels as the US. Compare it to the Colonials vs the British. The British outnumbered the Americans by far, but the American Colonials had a more accurate rifle, one of the best of its time. It allowed the militia forces to better pick their targets in a more precise beaten zone.
Or compare it to the the Soviet forces. The Soviets made great tanks and warplanes, and they loved numbers. It was supposed to be a reasonable counter to the limited American forces who focused on fewer but more complex weapon systems. While Soviet tech has seen considerable success through exported assets, they have been effectively countered time and time again by their more complex and costly counterparts by the US. That's not to say the Soviet weaponry is not deadly and without its advantages, but in the friction of war, you need to be able to counter any threat possible. The RPG is a deadly weapon system with an effective ratio that almost guarantees a kill on a tank. On paper, AT weapons should make the tank extinct. However, factors such as a limited visibility from fog, the psychological warfare of the rumbling tank, and the threat of indirect fire covering the tanks (mortars & artillery) can greatly affect the success of the RPG. So say the tank is an Abrams. The Abrams has special optics to counter poor visibility, its armor is able to protect it from small arms fire, and the size and noise it creates can further demoralize the enemy.
Life support systems make sense when you want to try and preserve the pilot. The Empire can always draft or recruit more. The Rebellion does not have that luxury.
Shielding makes sense when you want to opt for the pilot to have more chances than none. Where is an X-Wings strongest point of shielding? Front. How do Imperial fighters initially engage their targets? By swarm. This allows the X-Wing (and its counterparts) a higher chance to survive the powerful weapons of the TIE. It helps skilled pilots increase their time in battle before being killed.
Again, that doesn't mean the TIE is not deadly, effective at its own method of attack, or without its advantages. It just means that you have two different strategies in play, trying to counter each other. The Rebellion's has been shown to work.
+HaloModder555 I meant tk say that the TIEs usually initiate engagement by means of a head on swarm. As shown in the films, games, and comics. Mobile does not let me edit comments.
I still like the Republic cruiser more, that's just my opinion though. Cool video
I only just realized when looking at the Venator from the front, it looks kind of like Jar-Jar.
But the Republic Cruiser looks cooler...
+Conner Bennett I love that argument so much.
Nope. The empire looks the best cause the bad guys have the coolest looks..
Nah man, star destroyers FTW!!
+Louie Kite but technically Republic cruiser is a star destroyer earlier version
i like the ventador look better maybe because i'm used to seeing it
+Riyanna sia its venator
In Episode IV it's a Victory-class destroyer, ESB was the first to feature Imperial class. This was pulled from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia AND behind the scenes interviews. Complete Cross-Sections is known for several errors.
I want a Star Wars mod for Battlefleet Gothic Armada.
The Venator-class is my favorite ship design.
37 THOUDAND for an extra 500 meters! Gee... You learn something new every day
1:21 WHY DOES A VENATOR FROM THE FRONT LOOK LIKE JAR JAR BINKS' HEAD!
wtf u talkn bout, i can't see it at all
do the droid capital ships vs imperial star destroyer
+Wilbo Baggins Most likely the imperials would win
oh well. i just like to see the vid be made anyway
Bro is the venator made of LEGO’s in the thumbnail
Venator class all the way
+TheMatoroMovement pitty they could not just refit the Venator class with heavier guns, shields and armour plating.
+Chaosengine PlayerOne yeah the design was cheaper but is something that looks cooler.
Aren't you forgetting about the heavy SPHA turbolaser beam cannon attached to the ventral hanger of the Venator class Star Destroyer's of the open circle fleet? it was a later addition to the cruisers at Anakin Skywalker's suggestion and it was far more powerful then any turbolaser on either ship capable of completely destroying a Munificent-Class Star Frigate in one hit.
You also forgot to add in that the Dual Heavy Turbolaser batteries on the Venator-Class Star Destroyer's rivaled the main batteries on the later Imperial I-class Star Destroyers, In terms of firepower. In addition to that you forget to add in the fact that the Venator-Class Star Destroyer's could divert almost all of its Hypermatter Annihilation Reactors output to its heavy turbolasers when needed, giving it's dual heavy turbolasers an insane firepower.
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/DBY-827_heavy_dual_turbolaser_turret
Also the shields of the Venator-Class Star Destroyer's were roughly that of the Victory 1-Class Star Destroyer's which had 3,200 SBD shielding.
And while the shields of the Imperial-Class Star Destroyer are strong that's for sure you forgot to mention that the shield globe's are painfully exposed and vulnerable to enemy fire from missile weapons such as concussion missiles or proton torpedoes from star fighters as well as suicide attacks from small star fighters themselves. With this in mind you have to take into account that by itself the Imperial-Class Star Destroyer's had almost no anti-fighter weapons installed at all only ion cannons and turbolasers which are easily avoided by starfighters which is why the death star's turbolasers didn't work against rebel fighters during the battle of Yavin the Imperial-Class was designed for warship to warship combat not fighters.
And as such had no fighter protection at all except around 40 tie-fighters which would be nothing against trained clone pilots since tie-fighters had no shields and most republic starfighters did as well as superior weaponry in fact the Venator itself could handle almost all the fighters by itself which would leave hundreds of fighters to attack the Imperial-Class.
Now lets take a look at what would be attacking the Imperial class which has no anti-fighter weaponry installed.
192
Alpha Nimbus-3 Starfighters
Armed with
2 twin laser cannons.
flak guns ( sometimes )
Proton Bombs ( sometimes )
Or 192, V-19 Torrent fighters
Armed with
laser cannons and
Concussion missiles
192
Eta-2 Actis-Class Light Interceptors
Armed with
2 rapid fire laser cannons
2 ion cannons
Around 40
Arc-170 Heavy Fighter/Bombers
Armed with
2 medium laser cannons
2 rear mounted laser cannons
proton torpedo launcher
Around 40
LAAT/i
Armed with
3 anti-personal laser cannons
4 composite beam laser turrets
Mass-driver missile launchers
Light air to air rocket launchers
And are capable of carrying various kinds of mines and bombs
So long do you think an Imperial-Class Star Destroyer with very little fighter support and no anti-fighter weaponry is going to last against around 400 fighters half of which are armed with ion cannons and the other half some of them have proton bombs, 40 bombers and 40 gunships equipped with powerful beam, missile and rocket weaponry? and those nice and exposed shield globes will be the fighters first target.
the republic star fighters vs imperial tie fighters is like comparing an F-4 phantom(Vietnam war) to a F-18 super hornet(modern fighter) sure tie fighters don't have deflector shields, but there is a reason for that. they are extremly fast and agile. now times that by two, and you get the tie interceptor which if you read the books they do carry interceptors in place of fighters. no republic fighter could even come close to tie fighters maneuverability
+Darius Berdahl Um no they are like that because the tie fighters are literally designed to be quick, cheap and mass produced they are purposely made crappy so that they can be cheaply made, this is even confirmed. Now the tie fighters of the first order now those are actual good fighters but the imperial ones ? complete shit. The clone wars era fighters are better armed as well, and they go just as fast, half of them can go into hyper speed on their own.
Even if the imperial ties were actually good and well made, they wouldn't last long against the superior pilots of the clone military or the sheer number of fighters, like seriously? 40 mass produced fighters made in a pretty peaceful era vs over 400 gunships, bombers and fighters designed to be superior combat vehicles during a time of a massive intergalactic war? come on they aren't gonna last long either way.
evan stokely First of all, no the republic starfighters are not near the speed or maneuverability of a tie(especially interceptors). Yes you are right that they are meant to be cheap and easy to produce, but that doesn't mean they are crap. For example, the engine has no moving parts making them both cheaper and low maintenance. As for fire power, completely depends on the fighter. ARC-170? Of course it has more fire power! It was specifically designed to be rugged and deal large amounts of damage. And when you take in account its about, i dont know, DOUBLE the size of a tie fighter, it can afford having more fire power. Now compare a tie fighter to a V-wing, the most numerous fighter it would be fighting in this battle, they're about equal when it comes to firepower. And finally, as the video pointed out, bombers weren't really carried on Venators. Yes on special missions(like malevolence) they carried many bombers. Otherwise, most of the time they didn't.
I think the imperial class might have had internal shields as well. and, I imagine the fighters were for distracting the fighters so the turbolasers could focus fire on the venator. also, the SPHA may annihilate the munificent, but star destroyers have strong armor and deflector shields. even so, I don't know if all venators have SPHA's. also, you really think an old clone wars fighter would compete with modern TIE's? that's like saying a car from the 1970's would be faster than a Lamborghini.
Darius Berdahl No actually a year into the war, most Venators carried Y-Wings as you can see, in the space battle of Ryloth, Umbara, 2nd Invasion of Genesis and the list goes on and on, Venators DO carry at least 2 squadrons of bombers. This battle is like a bear vs a human with a bunch of AI drones carrying mini guns. The mean will die even if he kills the human as the 400 drones will easily finish him off. Even thought TIEs are more manuverable, a bunch of rebels beat squadrons of them, and their training was no where near the level of the clones. The ISDs 40 TIEs would be no match for the Venator's superior fighters and pilots. Also not every ISD carries TIE Interceptors. Let's face it, a Venator can give an ISD more than a fight...1v1 and I still kinda lean towards the Venator TBH from how the Rebellion destroyed ISDs with their limited training and resources
Note: at a number of points, you were showing Victory Class Star Destroyers which are very easy to distinguish from the Imperial Class by trapezoidal plates on each side - see 0:36 for an example. Also, just about every picture of the Imperial Class were actually Imp II's though that I totally sympathize with - the profile looks almost exactly the same with there being basically just one visual difference and there's not a lot of pictures of Imp I's
You used pictures of a Victory class star destroyer twice.
I really like this VS stuff. It's very different from all the other Star Wars info channels, they don't have anything like this.
I think you discounted the fighters a bit too quickly, as it was stated by cannon many consider TIE Fighters cheaper and lesser quality fighters then their predecessors. I think it was stated in legends the Rebels used the old fighters mentioned before transitioning to fighters we are more familiar with and had a higher kill ratio then the Empire. Not to mention of the two, the Republic Cruiser was consider a more prefect design then its predecessor.
Granted, if the Star Destroyer got close enough, the Republic Cruiser would still be toast but a long range combat that both sides like to employ, it would have a chance depending on how long it took the Empire to get close.
well the Venator has longer ranged cannons and is faster, so i think it is safe to say the Venator could stay a range and use their fighters to weaken the ISD's defenses and use their cannons to "snipe" the enemy capital ships and the fighters/bombers/etc can do strafing runs causing mass damage on the ISD
also you can build(fast build time too) and crew five venators for the cost of a single ISD
59 million? It's not enough credits
This battle doesn't factor several keys points into it.
1) Just because a ship goes down does not mean it's fighters and bombers are suddenly useless.
The Venator's attack aircraft would destroy the Tie fighters in little time then go on to attack the Imperial Star Destroyer.
2) Proficiency and efficiency
The clones and their officers were made to be as efficient as possible, completing missions at all costs. Whereas stormtroopers and their officers were not. This is highly visible in several engagements where clones and their officers make suicidal moves that win the battle as a whole.
Something like Thrawn vs Yularen/Skywalker would make this gap smaller, but even then the latter would not be going straight into battle with a foreseeable plan which would take Thrawn time to pick apart, and time costs lives and ships.
nice information man, nice vid ;)
+Lucas Pieterson Thanks!
+Fact Free One thing, don't ARC-170's act as a fighter/bomber with the capability to fire photon torpedoes?
Also love your videos and keep on producing great content!!!
+Cooper Counts I would say it depends on the mission. The ARC fighters behaved similarly to the X-wing, being versatile and good dog-fighters. There was an instance in the Legends canon when a group of X-wings had their torpedo tubes switched with ion cannons. This match up would probably be a random encounter so the ARC's would have the regular loud-out, but they would be overwhelmed by the TIE swarms and anitfighter turrets. also note that it was rare that a I-class was ever alone, as they generally traveled in duos or trios.
Fact Free i like your chanell
spritecollcterFTW Thank you for the info! Also, don't Venators carry 10 BTL's or is that the Acclamator?
so the answer is simple, bigger is better
Go big or go home
Shinyspddmn BIG GUY BIG GUY
Legend of Tomorrow Yoda
And biggest is best
If you take my advice
You’ll outshine all the rest!
no based on every super weapon, and the malevolence having a strong fleet with support ships is a better way to go
It's the basic argument between pure function and a terror design. The venator was meant to do a job, and do it well. The imperial class was meant to be bugger-all terrifying, and that came with far more umph than it generally needed.
I feel like a ground of venators vs a groups of ISDs would win as the venators had a larger fighter compliment
For as much as I agree that the ISD wins in combat, I thought the biggest weakness of the ship were fighters, so if the Venator was able to deploy its fighters, wouldn't they be able to bring down the ISD? Granted the Venator would probably be long destroyed, but would it not be possible for the fighters to destroy the ISD?
u know that ISD have fighter, bomber and interceptor too right? so if venator release their fighters, same action ISD gonna do .
General KA Yes but the republic fighters outclass the empire fighters for the most part, and they're severely outclassed, it would slow them down, but the venator wins the fighter battle
it depends on who piloting it. based on good aspect, republic fighter would win ( yea with their cool fighter design).
That's true. If the Venator could launch all its fighters and bombers, and they focused on the Imperial's bridge and ventral reactor bulge, they could win. Also, the Venator is a smaller target, and more agile.
not to mention that the Venator was ment to be a Heavy armoured crárrier not a real battleship
Thank you for making these! These are amazing!
Hello I watch your videos for Stone time and I like them. But I dissagree with you this time. You forget about SPHAA/T Blast beam in Venators. They were able with it destroy a control ship of confederacy with one attack but IT was slow reloading so if venator desrtoyed maybe a shield generator I think a Venator would win. I am maybe mistaken but its my opinion.
+MineMX a DragSCZ Check it he has a video on that. The laser beam you speak of is acctually a blast from a powerful variant of the AT TE walker, even so it wouldnt be enough
X Infinity Yes but if they were lučky they could destroy a bridge kill a captain or destroy shields
Those were those heavy artillery walkers you saw destroy the droid core ship. They were stored in the lower hangars of the Venator. They weren't a common thing in the hangars. So, it would be unfair if there was some sort of uncommon weapon in there. And plus the shield on the Star Destroyers were VERY STRONG. So I don't think the walker's artillery cannon would penetrate the shielding on the Star Destroyer. I am not trying to bash on you or anything, I'm just correcting your mistakes.
I want to see an Executor vs Eclipse video! Who's with me?
Eclipse would win cuz mini Death Star cannon lol
Ya I totally agree. It would just be fun to learn more about the ships and speculate. The Eclipse really was OP though. I wish somebody would do inter-universe comparisons. Like what would happen if the Eclipse and a Covenant Super Carrier from Halo went head to head?
+Brick tator that would actually be really cool but I feel like the eclipse is still many many times larger than the super carriers, at least in my head it is, I'm not actually sure how big the super carriers were but still it'd be pretty intresting
The Covenant CSO Class Super Carrier is actually nearly twice as long as the Eclipse. The Eclipse is around 10 miles where as the Super Carrier is 18 miles long. There is no vessel in the Star Wars Universe larger than the Super Carrier of Halo. In the Halo Universe I believe only the Mantle's Approach, the Didact's ship from Halo 4, is the if not one of the only ships bigger than the Super Carrier
A Super Carrier has immense fire power with its plasma torpedoes and energy projectors but going up against a vessel with the firepower to crack a planet's crust with a single blow? If the Eclipse can get a shot off with its super laser I don't see much hope for the Super Carrier, despite its size advantage.
For those wondering about the numbers for top speeds, those are the maximum speeds when in-atmosphere. 975 km/h corresponds to about 80% the speed of sound in an Earth-like atmosphere. Since there is no drag in space, the numbers given are in fact maximum acceleration. For the Venator-class, this is 3000 G (g-forces). This is equivalent to around 29 420 m/s2, and given the speed of light being 299 792 458 m/s, means that without a hyperdrive, it would reach the speed of light in around 2.8 hours. Not exactly great, hence hyperdrives.
Source: Wookiepedia. Unfortunately there are no acceleration numbers for Imperial-class star destroyers.
420 star fighters vs 72, venator wins, speed, venator wins, hangar mounted sphat cannon that can crack a star frigate in half, venator wins, the imperial class may be more beefy, but the venator is far more versatile and has more fighter and bomber support to wipe the floor with the imperial class.
Exactly. having huge ships is nothing compared to air power. The V wings and Jedi fighters of the venator can destroy all the tie fighters while ARC fighters and Y wings bombard the star destroyer. All they need to do is destroy the sheuld generators, then bomb the bridge, or do it the old fashioned way and shoot a proton torpedo into an exhaust pipe.
And the fighters of the venator can deploy much faster than those of the imperial class
+Jacob Kolb As he mentioned before, the Sphat wasn't part of the standard armament of a Venator. General Skywalker had a few of them mounted with that sort of weapon before the Battle of Coruscant as a test, but it was never widely deployed.
Also you have to factor in that the V-19's and V-wings where inferior to Tie (LN) fighters, and only the 36 ARC fighters where capable of harming a Capital Ship.
Also, if the Impstar got within weapon range of the Venator while it was deploying it's fighters, the Impstar could have focused its firepower on the hanger bay, and destroyed the ship outright (The Hanger was a known weakness of the Venator. They tried to diminish it by putting very powerful shield generators, and heavy hangar doors, but an Impstar's heavy firepower would punch though that without a whole lot of trouble.
+Jacob Kolb Except if the Destroyer hits the Venator at her weakest point: the main launch bay, with a couple of decent hits through the bay the Venator splits in half...
+Jacob Kolb if the empire would keep the venator class, as for Imperial star destroyer is equal to the destroyers or battleship while venator class can act as carriers
Millenium Falcon vs Slave One
+Bernardo Freitas OPS, THIS VIDEO ALREADY EXISTS.
+Bernardo Freitas It does, but it being an older video of mine it's not really good. I'm going to remake it soon. Thanks for watching!
I have an extremely good question for you, I would like to know what happened to the "Zillo" besst after dying in clone wars season 2.
+Fact Free Not disagreeing with your judgement, but you didn't mention the SPHA-T Beam.
TheMadDocta Ah I just made a video on it :)
i dont know much about stawars but 975 km/h? i cant move that slowly in space even if i wanna.......
Was that clip of the venator making a kamikaze run form clone wars? if so can someone tell me the episode name?
i don't remember its name but its in season 1 and its a battle at ryloth
Darkgeasss storm over ryloth
+Pvt RyanV23 Headbasher 21 why are you that one special kid?
Season 1 Episode 19: Storm over Ryloth.
Great job again, I can't wait for another star wars fact video, because every time I try to race to it and; yes, like it, and watch it about 10 times just to make me interested in something when I am bored. And yes I have liked this video :)
in the movie Star Wars revenge of the sith battle over coruscant scene, one venator unleashed a beam of laser towards a separatist ship and completely destroyed it, what was that and would that make a difference in your scenario?
+Sonny Five i think it wont the ISD still very more poweful than the venator
+Sonny Five There were several variants with high powered Lasers, but they were specialised and not common - though the experiences of adding high powered turbo lasers to the Venators influenced the design of the Destroyers
+Sonny Five True, but the ship it destroyed was a comparatively tiny Munificent Class Frigate...the Imperial Star Destroyer was an IMMENSE vessel in comparison, with proportionately stronger shields.
not to argue a point but. again its based on what fighters its carrying. in a 1 on 1 engagement + air compliment the fact that the Venator's 400+ air wing puts it square in the Carrier category... which would have it launching fighters from "standoff range." running with 4-1 odds against the tie fighters and bombers... it would greatly depend on the pilots skills but likely with 4 on 1 odds even with weaker weapons, the older fighters. The nimbus could easy match the TIE fighters for speed and maneuverability so even on 2 on 1 odds alone the edge in air combat would fall to the Ventors.
Now heres the tick. the Tie bombers would have to compeate with essentially 4-1 fighters against them they wouldn't be able to make runs on the Ventor class. But the 32 ARC's DO carry Torpedo's. with such heavy cover from the other fighters. the ARC's would be free to do torpedo runs against the shield generators, bridge, and weapons batteries...
This would quickly cripple then disable the loan I class. Reason being the I Class lacked the point defense and anti-fighter weapons... more depending on its fighters to maintain air superiority.
even if only half of the arc fighters get off 1 shot each on the Destroyer, thats still 32 indivdual torpedo's... thats 10 per shield generator, and 12 into the bridge.
+kitsychan Agreed, You figh thte Imperials with Fighters not in cruiser engagements
And given that their speeds are about the same (smaller ship with big engines and lower mass gives it a slight edge) the "carrier" could stay out of engagement range while the fighters and attack aircraft cripple the star destroyer, once is guns and hyperdrive are knocked out, THEN the carrier can move in using its own guns to finish off the ship while recovering fighters. Once done it can jump out.
+kitsychan Just like real world aircraft carriers vs battleships. The ship with the larger air compliment wins.
We also know that it only takes one A-Wing projectile to down a ISD.....
+Brian Griffen that's underplaying it. Super Star Destroyer .
Hey Fact Free, I've looked into this a little in the past and the ISD's were designed by Lira Wessex (designer of the Venerator class), daughter of Walex Blissex (who designed Victory SD's, A/X/Y-wings, etc...). It was only after she married Denn Wessex in or after 20bby that she was able to get the influence to put her design for ISD's into production, which, by the time they had the plans sent to the shipyards, the ships built, stocked, manned and sent out, meant that they only saw action in a few operations at the end of the clone wars.
My sources are all from the wookiepedia page under Denn Wessex for the time of their marriage and Lira Wessex but this would put their created date at around 20-19bby. The first ISD was the Executrix, Thanks!