Cakewalk, The Future, and Me
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
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I use Cakewalk because it`s free. I can`t afford to pay for a DAW. I learnt everything I know about Cakewalk by watching your videos. I am greatly reiieved to hear that I can still continue using Cakewalk on my PC. I don`t use Bandlab. I can`t afford Photoshop. I use Gimp because it`s free and will do around 75% of photo processing that PS offers. Free to use software is a life saver for many of us. Cakewalk is as sophisticated as I need to cover my own music production. I have always been seriously impressed by it`s near-professional capabilities. And it`s free...! I will be hanging on to my DAW and continuing to learn as I work. Thankyou for your Cakewalk support over the years. I have written and recorded three albums using Cakewalk in the last two years....after countless views of your amazing tutorials.
Wonderful Peter! Thank you.
@@CreativeSauce Hi, I also use Cackewalk and I am concerned a bit what will happen. It is possible that the standard free plan will be unusable after some time or they will completely remove it. I also wonder what payment plan Cackewalk will have. If there will be lifetime licenses or monthly fees :( That's very popular nowodays. It would be a great idea if the free version become a open source version.
To be fair, if you use any sort of interface, you probably had a very useable DAW included with your purchase. There’s always options.
@@Hue_NeryYou're right. But I will have a little headache with a couple of things. First all the previous projects made with cackewalk will be unusable. I will have to choose the right DAW after cackewalk - do you have any proposal which it fits the former cackewalk user need to not make him disapointed :) ? Maybe Bitwig Studio. The Pro Tools seems great however I don't like that there is no option to save project locally -or maybe I didn't notice that functionality. Mike could you pls let me know which Daw would you recommend hypothetically if Cackewalk will not be usable in the future ?
One thing i can tell you as an longtime Cakewalk user, is that the team behind this software is pretty generous. They had many upgrade discounts, when they used to sell Sonar and you could even write them, that you was a big fan years ago, when your last version you bought was pretty old, even then they gave you a good price to upgrade.
Off course the Gibson thing burned many, but Bandlab took responsibility for this with the free offering, altough they didn't had to.
So i am excited for the future of Cakewalk. And as Noel told us in the forum, CbB will stay free for existing users, it only gets phased out by the new concept.
I have always known Mike as Mr. Cakewalk..... The biggest brand ambassador n teacher for Cakewalk on you tube, so if cakewalk wants to get paid, then they should also consider paying, (or at least working with) Mike for all he's done, I cannot begin to express how useful n helpful these channel's tutorial videos are, I started on a project a few months ago and am working on a few songs on cakewalk right now (but never released anything yet) and its his videos i go to when I get stuck.... All the best and thanks for the work and effort you put in Mr. Cakewalk.... Thank you also to guys at Cakewalk too for allowing us the privilege to work with such a useful DAW, for free.
Cheers!!!
Greetings from Nairobi.
56:31 - " not because I think I'm a fantastic teacher" - Actually you are a fantastic teacher. You've been my source for CW since I DL'd it almost 2 years ago. HOWEVER, the fact that you don't have an ego about being a great teacher is actually a big part of your greatness. So there you go! Keep being humble, and keep doing what you're doing, Mike. Whether I end up switching to Studio One or not, I hope you'll be an essential part of my working with either DAW. BIG THANKS for all you do, mate!
He's literally the encyclopedia for Cakewalk. I'm getting this reality check news a lil late tho 😅
Thank you Mike and please keep this channel going on. I’m with Cakewalk since 1997 and I hope I can continue forever.
Same here. Didn't it used to be a paid product?
Mike could you do a video to help people transfer projects from cakewalk to another daw? Many thanks for all your help with Cakewalk, You taught me so much.
Mike 100% with you on your appraisal. I was a Sonar Platinum Lifetime user (yeah I got shafted) having used Sonar since X1. I moved to Reaper and Studio One after the announcement (and lack of updates, crashes and bugs from CbB for many months ). Doubt very much I'll be moving back. Reaper is now my backup DAW, Studio One my premier DAW on subscription. What do I miss most from CbB probably the ProChannel integration and the fact they worked great out of the box. Since then I have built up my own channel strip in SO and Reaper using my preferred VSTs so not a major problem. Mike stay well and thanks for all your incredible tutorials.
Nothing free (and good) lasts forever. I'd say it's about time they moved onto a paid product(s). I used cakewalk (started way back with sonar) for a long time. I jumped to Reaper back in 2018 and have been extremely satisfied with it. $60 , very stable , super easy workflow and very customizable. But I would still use Cakewalk from time to time because I liked it. I don't believe in subscription models though. And Mike , please keep your channel going , I love your videos. Very informitive and entertaining.
In my mind, Cakewalk Sonar will be playing in the under $100 league with Mixcraft, REAPER, and Waveform. They are no longer in the Logic, Cubase, FL Studio, Ableton Live!, Studio One league. While development has been continuous and energetic for the past 5 years, resulting in a very stable program, there haven't been many BIG feature additions. The Arranger Track is the biggest one I can think of. Most of the rest are smaller ones that make the program more convenient to use. This is great for veteran users who are set in their workflows, but lacking features like an integrated sampler, chord track, etc. There is a clip launching panel called The Matrix, but it hasn't been touched in many years and lacks certain things like the ability to record into cells. As you mention, hardware controller support is a very important thing these days and Cakewalk has fallen behind. This is likely a side effect of having had no marketing department for the past 5 years. The marketing department is traditionally who reaches out to form relationships with other manufacturers.
If someone is going to buy a DAW, there need to be reasons to choose it over the competition. As they stand now, they can compete at the 2nd tier but no longer the 1st tier. I've been a loyal user for the past 5 years based on the fact that it's been an excellent value. Once they announce the licensing cost, the value-for-money is going to change.
I agree with you.
I’m an old timer like you, and I like the software, I also want some brand new functionality, and want it going forward. Luckily I can afford it.
As for the channel, YOU ARE THE CAKEWALK DUDE!!!
No need to abandon it. Do playlists or a separate channel.
I have a big investment in experience with Cakewalk. It does what I need and I don't want to spend the time and effort required to learn another DAW. That will be a significant factor in my decision to continue with the paid version.
Frankly, I was surprised that Bandlab offered the program for free, and I don't fault the company for deciding to charge for it.
Cakewalk is the only DAW I use after years of trying to find the right one. The fact that it was free allowed me to play and learn and grow. Love your content BTW learned most of what I know so far from watching your content.
I remember paying for a lifetime of free upgrades back when Cakewalk was at Gibson (or was it Roland...). I don't imagine they'll be honouring that.
Same.. I have been using cakewalk since cakewalk 5. Bought tons of "producer" editions over the years. This is frustrating me so much! Literally thousands of dollars spent, just for them to put it free for a while. Then now charge for it again..
@@aestheticsinger A while = five years
They will charge for the new versions, not the current.
No, Gibson (or was it Roland) will probably not honour that no.
I'm the same. Used Cakewalk from day one and had a lifetime Sonar Platinum licence. I feel cheated that I'd be charged again for it.
I moved DAW after the takeover and have no intention of returning. I'm not spending thousands more £s on something I owned once before.
Same. Gibson owned Roland and ran it all into bankruptcy…
The issue that concerns me is my back catalog of music that I've created with the various incarnations of Cakewalk. I don't want to have to convert it all over to another DAW if I want to go back to it for any reason...Interesting conundrum.
I was a lifetime platinum purchaser and entirely agree with your take. I was shattered after buying it then finding out that it was being wound up. When Bandlab resurrected it I was so relieved and thankful and nothing has changed even by this announcement. Bandlab went above and beyond in that crisis and for the benefit of the community. I can't blame them for trying to monetize it. No such thing as a free lunch. We've been blessed to have it free for this long.
Finally someone getting it.
So since I had a lifetime license for SONAR platinum I will get my lifetime back?? Or os this just a suck people in again to get them to buy and get screwed twice??
It’s funny, but I’ve been using Cakewalk / “12 Tone” products since it was called Cakewalk then Pro Audio 7 etc, Sonar.. and while I understand the possible need to update a DAW, I’ve never felt a need to. My previous studio used Windows 2000 32bit with less than a Gig of RAM and I used Sonar 5.2 and a motu 424 card with physical analog 24 ins and outs to my console. I never updated Sonar even though they were available and I knew Carl Jacobson at Cakewalk. Recorded several albums etc. although obviously couldn’t run many plugins on that machine. I pulled that computer out a few weeks ago, plugged in an old 2408 to the 424 card, hooked up 3 Alesis ADAT’s to the light pipe connections and transferred several hours of 24 simultaneous tracks of ADAT (3 tapes) to Sonar 5.2 no issues whatsoever. Ran perfectly no “YOU MUST ACTIVATE!” after sitting unused for years. My current main computer oddly enough I am running CbB version 2021.01. (build 098 64bit) and never update it just reactivate it offline. When I do get the “new version!” Pop up when I do happen to go online for other products I ignore it. That system runs like a top with around 1,300 plugins in my vst folders. My laptop has CbB version 2022.11 (build 021 64 bit) those are both Windows 10. Being a free DAW I’ve put CbB on several nothing fancy machines so I can work in several locations without hauling stuff around and I do update those out of curiosity. But what I’ve noticed is that I’m not finding anything missing (outside of of course plugins installed) from version 2021.01 which I use daily in comparison to the newest latest updated version. My workflow isn’t any different on either version. Sure there’s a couple visual / graphics changes (like export window) but roughly identical. I’m not a fan of “updates” when everything is fine as it is. It’s like endlessly messing with a guitar modifying it when the real focus should be on creativity itself. I’d probably still be using 32bit Sonar 5.2 Windows 2000 if my studio wouldn’t have flooded and I figured what the heck and bought a used core 4 core i5-3470 3.2Ghz Dell for $125.00 and threw in some extra SSD’s. I’m usually running 40+ tracks of audio or vst instruments with loads of plugins and some of my orchestral templates have 60+ instruments from Spitfire, VSL, Garritan etc loaded. Why update the DAW? I just need the dang thing activated so I can work on music. Not being able to “update” to the newest version doesn’t threaten my music making at all. Not being able to use it because suddenly it’s not activated does.
Well done Mike, I appreciate and admire your dedication. Time will tell and we trust in you. You have been so helpful with cakewalk.
I have been a user many years ago with cakewalk and the introduction of Sonar right up until the change to cakewalk by bandlab.
It's so frustrating to learn the curve of a new DAW but I can understand the features of Studio one as short cuts in work flow but I
feel afraid of the learning curve but I can understand it makes sense. I guess it may be best to finish my tracks and mixdown with cakewalk
and export and continue to use another daw in the future. I really appreciate your concern and good to know you are on our side, thank you
I've been a Cakewalk user for 30 years or so, and though I would have been happy for the free party to go on forever, I'll gladly pay whatever they ask for the new Cakewalk Sonar. (And yes, I was one of those burned by the "lifetime" offer.) I just don't see myself, at age 61, changing over to a new DAW, after half a life spent with Cakewalk. If CbB hadn't improved so much under BandLab's stewardship, it might have been a different story, but things like ripple edit and take lane enhancements (just to pick two out of many) always made me feel that they were really taking usability seriously. If a paid model is what it takes to continue that level of steady incremental development, so be it.
However, I'd still like to learn more about what I'm missing. Mike was reluctant to go into specifics about how Cakewalk's workflow is behind those of other DAWs. I'd love to see videos that dive into the details of those shortcomings and how they might be mitigated, with reference to the DAWs that do it better. I see no reason to break out a separate channel for that kind of thing, though.
I'm right there with you! I was a user from the early 90s to Platinum! What I'm hoping is they will have a price that reflects appreciation for those of us that stayed the course! I don't think we should be treated like we didn't pay for it before + ALL the upgrades over the years. I'm thinking, based on where we left off, $200 or less would be fair! We are not customers they have to compete for if the treat us right!
@@SteveAdamsChannel I don't think I have the same feeling as you about this. It would be delightful to be recognized for our loyalty in some way, but it wouldn't have to be a specific price break. And I don't see that it's BandLab's responsibility: They rescued the survivors of a shipwreck in 2018, who were all happy to ride the lifeboats for free, in high style, at that, and now the rescuers are saying that in order to continue to provide transport, they'll need to start charging. I don't see that the former first-class passengers have any claim to special treatment. (Not that I'd turn it down!)
@@TimothyPeierls Well, perhaps I don't know the whole story about how and who went to Bandlab. I only feel the way I feel if the same ppl own Cakewalk and just rebranded under another name. Otherwise I agree with you. I do by the way still have my Cakewalk Platinum download if things get ugly! LOL!
Ha! Exzactly my story too! Almost 30 years. !997 starting using it. Have a closet with all the boxes, then the plastic sets...AND of course the lifetinme offer 🙂 ....the Gibson era...but I did branch into Ableton (deeply and now for over a decade), Reaper and Maschine when cake cracked. But really enjoy revitalizing old unfinished tracks that will only work in cake. I had to chime in with you -- two thumbs up!!
6 weeks prior to Cakewalk sold to Gibson ... I bought the life-time license for Sonar Platinum ... within weeks ... it is basically gone ... then BandLab picks it up ... I knew there is NO WAY a company can progress (especially in today's market) without charging for the services ... Sweetwater recommended StudioOne ... I knew I had to make a change ... I would never have trusted my 20 plus years of Cakewalk use again ... StudioOne is the BEST decision I've ever made ... it provides the most features and benefits at an incredible price ... I only hope Presonus stays in the DAW market ... thank you Mike ... great as always ... GENUINE ... you are always trusted among your Subscribers!!
at the announcement of this news, I went back to Reaper. They at least don't make a move like this.. I wondered if I was staying. But given the enormous capabilities and reliability of Reaper, I go back with him ..
As a hobbyist in music making this is a bit of a disappointment as I can’t really justify spending much money on a DAW after already buying an audio interface, headphones and a few cheaper soft synths. Cakewalk has been decent for me learning and mucking around for the past couple of years, definitely with some help from your advice Mike! Thanks for making content for a free DAW, it makes the channel ideal for people who know this is just a hobby for them. Cakewalk as a product does feel clunky in many ways but the free factor made me forgive all that. Logic or Ableton live would be my next picks perhaps, but I’ll probably explore other free products first, Cakewalk really was a standout in that space though. Will probably keep using it and hope it doesn’t break at some point. Thanks for the video.
I have so very much appreciated this live stream. Thank you so much! I hope you'll do more of them. You are such a wonderful resource for news, information, tips, tutorials etc. about Cakewalk. I'm one of those old guys who has used Cakewalk DAWs for many years (since Pro Audio 9). I really love Cakewalk and am grateful that the free version will still be working at least for a while. I'm hoping that the new Sonar will be at a price that I can afford but I doubt that I'll be able to so the free version will have to do at least for a while. And I think that a special channel for the new Sonar would be great. Wishing you all the best!
I bought a lifetime license for SONAR when it was owned by Roland in 2014. They couldn't support it - I had tickets that say for years unaddressed. Gibson bought it and ditched it. Bandlab resurrected it for free - but now it seems to me that they are selling it again with nothing I can see changed since 2014. All of these features were the case in 2014. Am I crazy?
I was a Cakewalk user from the original floppy disk that came free with an IBM ps1 in the early 90’s, I became a subscriber and stuck with them through all the iterations until they announced Sonar would be free with Bandlab, at that stage I left them and moved to cubase as I reckoned I would just be faced with a slow decline and mounting issues and incompatibilities. To be honest I found Cubase to be a few steps beyond Sonar and it really helped my creativity. Now that they are moving back to a paid product I won’t be going back and I’d say it’s the same story with lots of loyal customers who felt a bit shortchanged when they changed their business model.
I found your channel just before your 1,000 subscribers about 3.5 years ago. I learned so much from your videos! Thanks again!
I bought Cakewalk Sonar Producer 6 years ago. Don't people know there was already a Sonar line a few years ago?
As an old time user that used to pay for Sonar Platinum(including “lifetime updates”), it would be nice if they gave us paid users a bit of a break. As of now I’ve gone back to Studio One and even Pro Stool. I just think our loyalty deserves a bit of recognition.
Creative Sauce, I have lurked in your channel for a while and you are simply the best! As a user of Cakewalk Pro Audio originally since late 90s, I have upgraded through the years through the last paid version of Sonar Platinum and still use that version today. It does what I need to do. I have never actually used the free version, and I was completely shocked when Bandlab made the move to offer it for free. The code is stable, valuable, and I am optimistic the paid program will fund new support and development improvements going forward, and I may consider being a consumer again. I love what you do!
I did a poll on Facebook this week, interested to see what age ranges use Cakewalk. It came out 8% at 20 to 40. 53% aged 40 to 60 -- and 37% aged 60 to 80. Just 1% at up to 20. Incredibly 1% over 80. Sadly I hit the 60 to 80 age ladder...at 77 I`m well inside that damn age group. (No idea where the time went. But luckily I still feel the same as I did when I was just eighteen. And just as creative and focused.). But a very interesting insight into Cakewalk users with just under 500 votes.
Makes sense because literally no one uses Facebook anymore.
Hi Mike, I hope you're well and thanks for the chat. I don't want to put too much pressure on you but Cakewalk and your channel are what got me back into music production after many years away and where I learned everything (I was a very early Cubase user once!). So, bottom line is whatever DAW you recommend and can tutor me to get the best results possible with is the one I'll be using, paid or not!
Mike, just from a marketing and discoverability standpoint, I think channel names that are product-based might be better. There are a lot of channels out there which try to cover everything, and I suppose google has some tools which will help you plan.
The parallel might be "new user discoverability vs current users" that parallels restaurants which won't change their menus to attract new customers, while they are afraid of losing a few loyal customers.
Also, it goes without saying that if you are making a video on the old channel asking if you should create a new channel, it isn't surprising to see the people here saying, overwhelmingly, "keep the one channel".
Whatever you do, please take it easy... You're adding value, and certainly a joy to watch
YES, please make tutorials for Sonar! Your videos have been extremely valuable to me, and I could never have gotten off the ground without them! You are awesome :)
been using Cakewalk for the past 10 months and never updated it, so I'll continue to use it for as long as possible,
it really depends on the price structure, if its subscription then I don't think many people will want that, but if it's a one off payment then it might be worth it... 👍🏼
The workflow is still slow. If they are going to charge, they better make changes to compete with FL Studio and Ableton and or other DAWS. The drum sequencer needs to allow for direct drag and drop of samples/wav files. The arranger needs serious modifications. Long before I pay for this software.
You're My hero man. I learn so much from you . Thank you
Thanks man, glad its helpful :)
Nice to see and hear you on here at last !!!! Lol 😂 Mum xx
I think you’re spot on about how they’ll need to modernize if they intend to charge. CbB is my second DAW, I’ve only used it for 2-3 years, and I am relatively comfortable with it now, but I still marvel at how the workflow seems harder than it needs to be, and how frequently it crashes. I have been pretty tempted to explore other DAWS just to see if they’re more stable and easier to use, but given that I’d spent all this time learning the flow and that it was free, I haven’t been energized to take that next step and learn a new interface (though when I Iose work, or it takes three attempts to load in my work and while it’s loading I am worried that my work is gone, or some other time sink, I come close). If they fixed those aspects I would pay, to repay them for the benefit I’ve already had these past few years. But if it’s just the same issues of usability and stability with a new skin, it may be time to explore what else is out there… (Will no doubt save that last installer that they release… I can forgive crashiness when the program is ancient and free.) Will be interesting to see what the future holds.
Mike - you should be BLs VP education/training. Seriously. I've been in Enterprise Software, you definitely have the stuff to develop a curriculum and deliver courseware, as well as promote it, kind of like Dan Worrall sometimes does.
And it would be fun to build a community around it, like I've done for a couple of stuffy old enterprise products. Free, high quality education in audio/MIDI, plus free, high quality product training, maybe with specialties in different production styles.
Besides being the right thing to do, giving customers that kind of support makes business better for everyone.
As one of the OLD-time Cakewalk user's (71) learning curves matter to me. I started using CW back when it was just a DOS based MIDI sequencer. I paid lots of money for Cakewalk upgrades because it brought loads of new features, although adding audio was the life-changer. And then VST instruments! I'm interested in seeing what new features another paid version might bring. It had better be significant.
Last summer I started trying to force CW into my band's live show playing click tracks, cues, and backing tracks, plus control via MIDI of my keyboard presets, my GT-1000 guitar pedal, channel presets on my rhythm guitar players Katana and controlling our XR18 mixer (mostly mutes) and automating our light show. I learned a lot about using CW to send/receive MIDI CC and PC messages...mostly that it was a real pain. So I tried the free version of Ableton Live and in about 2 weeks bought Ableton Live Standard. It was a piece of Cake (pun intended) compared to Cakewalk although it did/does have a learning curve. The right tool for live performance.
I still use CW for my music production, but IF I have to pay for CW again, I will probably to a lot of research into other DAWs, including quality UA-cam channels like Creative Sauce.
Keep up the excellent vids!
Wow thanks Randy, I''ll be 73 in August and you are the only person I saw on the WWW that used Cakewalk DOS other than myself. Before Cakewalk had audio, I used to use my Fostex A8, and stripe one channel to sync with my Cakewalk DOS. That gave me a lot of midi channels, and 7 audio channels. After Cakewalk stopped, I bought 2 other DAW programs. I did not like them, and I was happy when Bandlab took over. After a while with my MOTU 24AO, I had so many drop-outs, I upgraded my computer a few times and nothing help until I tried other programs. So I started to give up on CW again, but about a year ago after an update, CW has been working great again. I had no problem with CW paying for most of the upgrades, for the ones that looked good, and I pay if I have too. I'm just too used to CW to change.
I also started using Cakewalk early on (early 90's.) I remember the demo that came with the program was a Bach Two Part Invention No 13. I upgraded all the way through Sonar Producer. I always hoped that Bandlab would bring back the Cakewalk synths like Dimension Pro and wonder if they might in the paid version.
Thanks Mike - I’ve been watching your CbB videos on this channel for the last 6 months. Thanks for all your efforts putting together interesting tutorials. I swapped across from Reaper after recommending CbB to a mate who was new to home recording and CbB being free got him started. So, I started using it as well. Not sure how I’ll continue to use it if I have to pay too much for it.
The ability to modify the theme is useful for making certain screen elements easier to see for those of us with vision issues.
Thanks for raising this Keith.
Great Video Mike.
Keep it on this channel. It will be easier for you. You are doing this for the good of the public and should have more time for yourself.
Cakewalk will probably price themselves out of the market doing this.
There are too many free DAWs that have similar or better workflow and features.
Cakewalk is not Protools and should reconsider their move to a paid DAW since their market is much smaller than AVID and since Protools use to be the de facto standard for the industry.
Protools is still here because of that, surviving the years they lost a large amount of their market due to update issues, pricing and crashing issues.
Although Protools is not the standard now, Cakewalk needs to understand that they never were.
If I decide to stick with the new Sonar (been a Cakewalk user since the early 90's), your channel will be one of the reasons. They should get you on board, period. I always feel I haven't got time to watch videos and tutorials, but for your channel, Mike, I just make time.
Had several versions of Sonar, Bandlab..... Went to Reaper and have never looked back.
Thanks so much for this chat. I'm one of the "old timers", for decades, that had arrived to Sonar X3 Platinum before the world changed.
Call me paranoid, but... "You can keep running CbB" seems to mean on the same machine, once it has been activated. If your hard drive crashes and you must reinstall, even if one has archived versions of CbB installers/updates, I'm not sure that will offer safety. Both "online" and "offline" activation require interaction with BandLab servers, which I would expect to go away eventually. If you had done offline activation, and carefully saved the associated files, you might be able to install/reactivate after a hard drive crash. This seems like the best case. I would be doubtful that any fresh installs could ever be activated. But so much is unknown, so I'll be watching to see if there is some solution planned for this.
Things could go several very different ways - so I guess one must wait and see.
I'm one of the old Sonar users that doesn't want to scrap years of productions that would have to be converted to another daw. That being said, I expect a paid version to address issues that their competitors have already made. Most of us continue upgrading our hardware. I recently bought an Arturia controller that does not plug n play with all the features I purchased it for in Cakewalk. This is a game changer for me if the pay version doesn't address issues like this.
I started with Cakewalk 1.01 from Leigh's computer in NYC which I found in Electronic Musician in 1991-1992. I ordered it and talk to the original developer on the phone to get the install completed. It was my 1st computer (386SX-25 from Thalheimer's) and required an upgrade to Windows 3.1!!! Since, PC sequencing and Windows was so new; there was NO one in Memphis, TN that sold the stuff that could help me. After steady upgrades with each version except Platinun; It hurt my heart that they abandoned me for these years and didn't even leave access to my account. As a salesman with Strings-N-Things in Memphis for years, I single handedly promoted and tore down addictions to MAC and introduced this city to PCs and Cakewalk. I hope they remember all those old dedicated customers and our accounts and start with a very, very, very low price and a bit more respect for their customers!
I used Cakewalk software for music production from the time that was only a midi sequencer to the time that Gibson announced that it was going to stop it's development. At that point I switched to Studio One, and I have been happy with the change. Now Fender has acquired Presonus...and I am a bit nervous.
Reminds me how your live shows have been missed Mike . Really interesting perspectives expressed covering some reallly important points. If Cakewalk do it right it could be an opportunity for them to take the platform forward having the means to invest in it's development . However as you say they will now have to work a bit harder to keep up with Jones's to justify their paid for model. I think one aspect that shouldn't be overlooked is how the new model will work with the Bandlab ecosystem which in my experience works really well and is well supported I don't see them bringing in this change without taking a wholistic approach to include that too...I'm also a former Sonar Platinum user so I'm hoping they modernise the program so it can truly compete on all levels as it was back then one of the best in my opinion. Who knows switching back might be a future option.
Thanks Ricky :) But aren't you hangin out for that Behringer DAW?
Agreed on missing the live shows, like to add missing seeing some of the wonderful guests as well like Mr. Ricky Tee to name just one of many 😊
All good things come to an end.
A quick comment on "upgrading" UI's:
When they say "no change", what they mean is "there is no plan to change", which then means if it isn't exactly the same, it is because of the new vector-based UI they are forced to use. If there are tiny differences, don't give them too much grief. They will do their best.
Always, with changing from bitmap-based UI to vector-based, there are some visual differences, tiny as they may be.
Thanks for the thoughts, information, and update! Much appreciated!
as you said earlier barrier to entry... tracktion waveform is available [and given recent events will be much more popular]...and from what i understand very capable...there is very little in the way of comprehensive tutorials for this software however...you are an excellent teacher and think you would transition easily and find much of the work flow familiar
90% of CW users are hobbyist, subscribtion going to be nightmare.
I never make worthy money on music.
I never make worthy music on the money I spend. 😂😂😂
Thanks for explaining the news. I think it is brilliant, what they're doing. For me and my mates in various projects and bands, I can run Sonar on my monster machine, while the individual musician can run Next on their fine laptops. It's exactly what our situation calls for.
A band can chip in on one serious studio pc, while being able to get things done (recording some parts) at home with a reasonably priced laptop.
I jumped from the expensive sinking ship that was Pro Tools to Studio One a couple of years ago. I pay about £4 a week for Studio One Pro and all the software that Presonus make. I have to say I have never looked back, it really is a stunning package for the money! 😎
Thanks for this, really appreciate it.
Left Sonar long time ago, keep it simple - go to studio one - it does everything and more - if you know sonar you could pick up studio one in about a month.
Good show thanks Mike!
I recently switched to Ableton because cakewalk was constantly crashing on me. That said I accomplished a lot in cakewalk and it got me going on learning a real daw. I didn't really know what I wanted out of a daw until I started using CW. Hell I didn't even really know what kind of music I wanted to make. As I used cakewalk I started naturally gravitating towards electronic music. One day a project crashed and I lost a lot of progress, not only that I would always feel like I was walking a tightrope waiting for the daw to crash. It was the times where I got in the zone and forgot to save was when I would lose everything and it's just incredibly frustrating. Those experiences added up to me making the switch. Not to mention the sheer amount of videos and community around Ableton helped get me going very quickly. It seems to fit like a glove for me today, I love the session view and the workflow of that. Also automating anything and everything in a very elegant way appealed to me very much. Not to mention the sample stretching is probably the best of any daw period. I thank the team behind cakewalk and the UA-camrs like you that got me here. Cakewalk doesn't have a lot of content creators and this channel is top flight. I appreciate your work, it has helped me find direction, I wish you well and I'll always be around to check in.
Mike, that's really interesting - I hadn't heard anything about this!!!
Thanks to help from you and your videos, I'm just starting to really feel at home in CbB...not sure what I'll do next?
I wish I'd known about this livestream, I'd certainly have joined - really miss your Fix your Mix livestreams!
'96 original 12tone systems, Cakewalk purchaser, upgraded thru Sonar x3, paid well over $500 thruout. So glad Bandcamp took over, but am in a pickle about this developement... My preferred daw.
When Cakewalk by Bandlab was introduced it was a stripped down version of Sonar. Things like the LP EQ, LP Compressor, Session Drummer, and other plugins were removed. Judging by emails and questions I asked cakewalk directly the Sonar version will have everything that was stripped away. Some of the differences are going to be that many bugs were addressed and removed and the sound engine will be redesigned. In addition to this Sonar will now work with Mac. This is brand new. One of the limitations of Sonar has been it has never worked with a mac.
Being a past Sonar user for over 10 years I find this exciting. I plan on purchasing this as long as it is not a subscription model. If i can get a license then I will buy it. I don't like cloud based DAWS. From what I understand Cakewalk Next is going to be an updated bandlab version and Sonar will be an updated restored Sonar platinum version.
Mike you're as much of a life coach as you are a great sound engineer!
I used Cakewalk for long time to serve with the church service .. I can't afford paying for it but will continue using the available free version
I was a cakewalk user for many years and switched 3 yrs ago to Studio One "Presonus" and the change was amazingly great. I am a composer and engineer and I can't say enough about the product. Just my 2 cents!
Used all major DAWS over 20 years, started with Cubase on Atari and continued until about 5 years ago with it rewired through Reason. Last 5 years Ableton all the way and never regretted it until I started film scoring. Still brilliant but weak for video. Looked into buying Cubase again but followed Cakewalk, never got it because I saw this coming! Went with Studio One 6. Best DAW I’ve used by far!!! So, Ableton for creating, can’t beat it. Studio One for mixing and mastering. Awesome DAW.
Great video, as always, Mike. Very helpful. As a post-retirement, 72-year-old home studio composer/recorder, I've loved learning Cakewalk (mostly from you). Nevertheless, if the paid version has a price point similar to others, and isn't state-of-the-art then I'll find the one that is. I'm still up on my software. One channel would be my vote, too.
Hi Mike and everyone, what a super informative video. Was a bit surprised as I wasn't aware of Cakewalk's business model changing. I have been using it since 1997 as well and am very used to the workflow.
However, I do have to admit that Native Instruments Machine and integrated hardware offer a very intuitive workflow that I have gotten used to. Quite a few features they could integrate into the new Sonar...
They will have to step up their marketing game and be more visible and accessible than they were in the past.... Back in 97, all my friends who were making music were on Cubase and never heard of Cakewalk, even though, like you said, Mike, it was a pioneer in terms of features!
Wow, this has turned into quite the post... Anyhow, I think this new business model could be a favorable opportunity for Cakewalk and am rooting for them!
I'm looking forward to more of your videos, Mike! Cheers!
I recommend Reaper to everyone.
I wouldn’t mind compare DAWs. And yes my son uses Logic and I worked with cakewalk since 1995.
I was a dyed-in-the-wool Roland MC500 (hardware sequencer) devotee until I was persuaded to try Cakewalk in 1996. To say that was an epiphany would be an understatement, and I've used it exclusively ever since, through all its various incarnations. It just fits my style of working like a glove. Amongst its great (unheralded) features are 32-bit plugin support - without the need for a third party bit bridge - and the CAL routines, some of which I find absolutely indispensable. I'd hate to lose either of those features. It's also the only DAW that I'm aware of that has the 'Fit Improvisation' feature that enables you to create a bar/tempo map from a realtime, free-flowing performance. Long may Cakewalk continue - preferably with those features left intact - and I'll stick with it.
Since my PC died this weekend a better hint to quit is perhaps not possible? Have a been a great time and fun, Good luck to the rest! Greetings from Norway
I plan to go to the new sonar. I like the UI and workflow. I was surprised that it was a free DAW when i started using it.
I think it is a good idea to have the Cakewalk Sonar here in the same channel, so that we compare and start getting prepared if we we need to (in case discontinued, eventually) or are able to move forward.
I really appreciate what I'm learning here..
Arturia have been amazing. New features are critical for value proposition for this new version - MPE/Midi 2 is critical.
Thanks for the update Mike, hugely appreciated as always. I didn't know any of this so I'm keen to see where it heads. Happy to continue supporting continued development of the fantastic Sonar, but would like those of us with lifetime licenses through purchasing (£600 for me) the last commercial Sonar Platinum to be recognised and given reasonable credit on any new version. I'd also strongly be against any subscription based model. In the end though, continued development can't be a 'free for all' for ever.
I do wonder just how today's Sonar stacks up against e.g. the latest Cubase?
They should've been paying you. You're the best ambassador they have.
I've been using Cakewalk since Music Creator I purchased it Cakewalk Kinetic & Cakewalk Pyro, from best Buy Back in the early 2000. These where for windows office before I got A new computer I purchased Sonar X1. The on my new computer I put Sonar Pro back in 2017. And they got rid of it. I still have all of them even on the first computer I mentioned. I also have Bandlab free version. All that to say Keep ya computer healthy use what you have. If they make us pay you don't have to buy or subscribe.
Hi Mike, excellent Video, there is however another group not addressed I.e. old fella who always used and paid for Cakewalk upgrades all the way up to Sonar X3 and was then offered a heavily discounted switch to Studio One which after watching your vids I opted for. it has however taken me ages to get used to and whilst some of the workflow moves in Studio one I love I still find myself comparing with cakewalk and now I am thinking that despite my urges to switch back to cakewalk I don,t think on principle I would be willing to pay yet again to switch back. so I find myself torn, but my instincts are having gone through the pain of switching to studio one that I will persevere. Ps I got all exited when Studio one 6 included track icons but they are rubbish compared to Cakewalk!
I used Cakewalk from the 1.0 for DOS (late 80s) version all the way through Sonar Platinum where I paid for “lifetime updates” in 2016. I also owned their other instruments. Lifetime updates? Well only until the software auth servers went offline I guess. I feel like Gibson took the money and ran. I appreciate that Bandlab are different folks and wish them the best of luck, but I moved on a long time ago.
I agree -- one channel. Always fun striking off into the wilderness with something new....but then you realize "i've invented yet another dragon" Lol, :-) . And excellent thoughtful measured comments about the coming Cake changes. (I too started on CW in 96, 97 or so.)
Thank you for many lessons Mike. I've used Sonar forward. I find it disappointing they think they much charge. But, I may pay a reasonable amount as my funds are limited these day. If its too hi I'll find something else.
Thanks!
Sounds like a good time for Mike to switch over to a real DAW. Haha. Haters... please commence. Just kidding. I tried out Cakewalk, due to one of Mike's videos, being the 1st thing about music production that I watched on UA-cam. I quickly switched over to Ableton Live, simply due to the sheer volume of UA-cam content on it. Over the years, I have truly learned a lot and I still follow Mike and all his great videos. Thank you.
I have been using Cakewalk and Sonar for over 20 years and I love the DAW and it's work flow. I make excellent recordings with it and I'm very satisfied. I have no financial limitations so I will pay for the new Sonar as I am not changing DAWS at this point. I hope you will continue your reviews and offer your insights on Cakewalk. Thanks for sharing your expertise !
I AGREE.I'VE USED CAKEWALK FROM THE FIRST YEAR THAT IT WAS RELEASED UP TO NOW IN THE FORM OF SONAR 6.0
Hi mike!u fortunately, this is the trend of the market (waves docet)
I already started my onboarding on reaper, event is about 20years that i'm using cakewalk, but this the life, always change😢
In the comments so far, it's interesting to see so many users who've been with CW since the midi-sequencer days. In the ever-growing world of DAWs, CW's midi interface is its true differentiator. Most competitors stop at a piano roll, but CW still lets you get under the hood with Event List. I hope that Bandlab keeps this valuable asset in Sonar.
I didn't catch this live - but watching the recording I wanted to make a couple of comments.
In terms of both the decisions of Bandlab/Cakewalk and you Mike (Creative Sauce) it would be ideal to segment your respective customer/subscriber base.
From Cakewalks point of view I guess, why the change in model at all?
Are they looking to generate operating costs to continue to be a market presence? Or to seek to build a financially (asset) strong business for eventual re-sale.
Both have there worrying aspects. If they are seeking only to cover costs, the migration to paid, if unsuccessful may mean the end of all forms of support for the product. If they are looking to build a business for later acquisition, then that too may mean that at a point in time, a new owner may only be looking to buy subscriber value, and not care about the interface.
From your own point of view Mike I guess your future offering will depend heavily on who (if anyone) migrates to the various product strands; and so you are right to sit on the fence until you see what your subscribers choose.
From the point of view of the products offered by Bandlab there is no doubt that they currently have a unique market offering; this will not be the case if they start to charge for something that was previously free.
My feeling is that from the business perspective Bandlab should have slowly migrated to paid functions; so for example I use the free cakewalk software on my PC and use the web based mastering services; they could have perhaps charged for each master rendered.
This 'dive in the deep end' approach is worrying, as to me it demonstrates a lack of confidence in their ability to deliver the business.
I shall continue to watch with interest.
When I first started out I tried a whole load of different DAWs. But I settled on three: Reaper (never paid for it!), Cakewalk and Studio One prime. In the end, I chose SO and upgraded to Artist. Why? Reaper's interface is utterly souless an there's way too much configuration and learning curve. So that went out the window. Cakewalk I found too uncomfortable to use plus it seemed a little feature poor compared to SO. So Studio One it was. Every now and again I'll have a quick dabble with another DAW but so far nothing sways me from SO. Now, if Cakewalk is going to be paid for, then it bloody well will need a huge kick up the arse in terms of look and feel, UX and features. If it doesn't then sadly no-one will buy it.
I definitely will not buy it.
Depends on the price. I think there are many people, like me, who are invested in Cakewalk and will be willing to pay to preserve that investment.
What features are you referring to?
I think all current cakewalk users should receive a nice discount code for the sonar version.
I'm not a Cakewalk user (in fact an amateur Ardour user on Linux, on which I have also played with Reaper and Tracktion/Waveform in the past). I understand the economic need, but hardly understand their choice. Redoing a fancy and scalable UI is not a major feature for users, at least not to switch from a free version to a paid one. I'm thinking they are in an urgency to get founds, releasing an iso-functionnality product (with retro compatibility). Maybe they had plans to provide more but had to postpone, whatever. What is getting out to me is that they will surely loose a good amount of users.
Now on your side :) Of course do whatever you want about CW related videos (doing some, moving them to another channel or stopping). To me the essence of your channel is not about products. As you state regularly in your videos, manipulations and tricks can be transposed to about any DAW. Of course, providing guides for some DAWs is something fancy, but in my perspective not the main attractive point of Creative Sauce. I learned a lot following your advices and explainations, even if you did them all through a DAW or plugins I will never use (Windows VST plugins are not that easy to use on Linux, even if there is some progress lately). You also have gears and plugins reviews, news, etc..., but expect for gears, they are not the reason I subscribed to your channel. To me, Creative Sauce is more about knowledge sharing about music production for the most noob ones to the more seasoned home producing music people.
I hope you'll continue to focus on this, despite the incertain future for CW related videos, and of course... I hope you're well ;-)
I've got a feeling that they will be well aware that they are slightly behind some of the paid alternatives, and have a big user base who won't suddenly pay a fortune for Cakewalk. Im going to predict a $6 a month subscription. And love or hate sub models, i think most people would be ok with that.
For about £4 a week you can get Studio One Pro and all the software that Presonus make! I jumped from the sinking ship that is Pro Tools to S1 about two years ago and have never regretted it. 😎
@@kadiummusic £4 a week is still a lot more than $6 a month though so I think Cakewalk could still maintain a lot of users at a lower price point.
Obviously this is all just speculation at the moment though. I think for me personally if it came out at any more than $10 a month, then I would start looking at other DAW options. Not because $10 is too much money for me, but because I suspect I could get better for that price or similar.
I've always been amazed that it has been free for so long. I got back into production just as it became free, and I remember looking at it about 6 months prior to that and nearly buying for about $200!
I seem to be in the minority, but I actually don't mind subscription models just because it guarantees you're always on the newest and supported version.
Main drawback to Studio One: No Clip launcher (Session view) functionality. This is a very powerful tool and I refuse to use any DAW that doesn't have it.
Interesting to see how this pans out! Cakewalk/Sonar will presumably have to price carefully to keep existing users on board, and to also attract new users. But I wonder how it will stand up against the competition? No doubt it is an incredible daw with a long track record in its previous 'life'....but would existing users of other established mainstream daws be likely to jump over to Cakewalk/Sonar? I wish them every success, and it will be interesting to see how this goes....and I am sure Cakewalk have done their homework (and I hope it stays affordable)! Ooo....apologies....should have watched all of Mike's stream first as he covers the points I made above....doh😊
I do find it disappointing and slightly suspicious that they aren't saying what's new and improved from Cakewalk by Bandlab (Or even X3 Producer). I won't be completely surprised if this is a relaunch of Cakewalk Sonar X3 Producer. I'll be very disappointed, but not surprised. I do find it suspicious though that they aren't saying what's new yet.
MAKING IT FREE I BELIEVE WAS FISHING IN MORE SUCKERS TO LATER MAKE YOU PAY.
Great recap of the great Sonar implosion. I was one of those who bought into the "lifetime" Platinum package only to have Gibson pull the rug oug out. I tried out Cubase (too expensive at the time) and Ableton (not ideal for me though a really different and interesting workflow) rapidly moved onto to Studio One cuz it seemed frankly the easiest and they offered a really attractive crossgrade. I have never looked back. The workflow is much more straightforward than Sonar. Though I can fully appreciate the value for those who are comfortable with the traditional Sonar workflow., I would guess that the new Sonar will be introduced at a very low price point for early adopters. If it gets some traction then maybe invest in moderizing the user experience. It's gonna be a tough needle to thread. Updating the user experience may not be accepted by existing users but I doubt that new users can be sold on an old school user experience.
Can I just say that I have no issues with subscriptions as long as outright purchases are also available. I think this is not only sensible but also fair. I believe it's business suicide to offer subscription only.
100% agree
Sadly the Adobe CC subscription only model proved itself viable and many other vendors followed suit. It gives me no pleasure saying it.
@@nikolaikrustev1159 Adobe PS and AI are industry standards, that's why. But Waves isn't industry standard.
Subscriptions work when it's software that many people require for their job. I don't think anybody needs Cakewalk for work, so it will be difficult to attract subscribers if they go subscription only, even though Pro Tools and Adobe can do it, and I think Kontakt would work too, for now. Other ones that seem to work are subs where there are new products available consistently.
What they COULD maybe get away with is a cheaper version of what Bitwig does... paid yearly upgrades, but people can still use older versions if they don't want the new features and support.
I started with the Yamaha MSX Music Computer, migrating to Notator (best ever for midi), onto Cakewalk 3. through to Sonar X1, when my desktop died I carried on with Sonar X1. I had a hard time working out how to get Bandlab's Sonar- which is a big step up from X1, but harder to use. They're going to have to really impress me to get me to pay for it. Specifically with audio plugins.
I KNOW RIGHT?! IVE BEEN USING CAKEWALK BEFORE IT BECAME SONAR AND SONAR X SERIES(PLATINUM) AND IM GOOD. ITS WORKS ON WINDOWS 11 SO GOOD LUCK TO BANDLAB. SHIT STOPPED WORKING 2 YEARS AGO.
OMG, MSX???? A friend gave me his CX5M back in 80s, it was a lot of fun -- until he took it back after I bought all the hardware and software for it!
Thanks Mike.
I feel that Cakewalk is worth paying for, but in its current state I'd expect it to be very cheap. Not because it's rubbish, but because it can't compete with its expensive counterparts. If it has a ton of added value like instruments and effects, then maybe it will deserve a higher price.
The ever-going argument of subscription versus outright payment could be avoided by having a rent-to-own option. I don't personally mind a subscription if it's reasonably priced and again comes with a lot of added value, but many people really don't like that.
We need to bear in mind that Bandlab themselves are gambling heavily with this new announcement. Firstly they know they're going to piss off a LOT of people. They know that a ton of people have already paid for a lifetime license through Gibson and that those people will feel let down by Bandlab. They also know very well that they said CbB would always be free and always be accessible. That's a heck of a lot of stuff to go back on. To me, this would indicate that they have something up their sleeve for the future. You don't upset that many people without a bloomin' good plan to win back their favour, and at least fairly quickly. The first iteration of Cakewalk Sonar is just a UI overhaul. This is welcome of course, but it is absolutely not worthy of going back on their word. Something more is coming, or at least I very much hope so because if interest in this goes cold Bandlab will permanently lose a lot of trust. Can they afford to lose that?
Owning a respected brand like Cakewalk is a big thing. As Mike said in the stream nobody seems to be recognising it any more. Hardware manufacturers don't test gear on it, don't have setup scripts for it, don't even try to make it compatible. This is an opportunity squandered. Bandlab should have been all over this when they acquired the brand, and they should not have taken their foot off the gas. Promotion of CbB has been sketchy at best, I can't remember seeing any ads for it. I found out about it by accident in a music group. Making CbB free could have reallty taken the DAW world by storm. Instead it wasn't even a light drizzle.
The other side of this coin is for people that currently use Bandlab's web based services. For them, Cakewalk Next would be a paid upgrade and may well be seen as very welcome by a lot of their users. Will impressing those people make up for disappointing the CbB folk? I can't see it, but it may well be a tactic they are employing, otherwise why make two entirely different versions of Cakewalk? I am very interested to see what the Next version is like, though I don't really use the Bandlab web DAW at the moment.
Everything is so up-in-the-air it's difficult to make any conclusions and I'm not surprised Mike's overall theme was, "Let's wait and see."
Regarding the channels and Facebook groups, I am hoping this channel continues in some form, probably leaning toward Cakewalk Sonar, provided of course enough people are investing in the software. I hope they do. I also hope the Facebook group continues because it's the one group I make absolutely sure I visit daily.
Much respect to Mike for streaming this, and I do genuinely hope Bandlab tune in because they could benefit from the opinions shown.
I didn't plan to write this much. Sorry for waffling.
Started using the original Sonar when it was a paid product eventually upgraded to Sonar Platinum through their "Rent to Owen Program". After a couple of years, I started a side biz doing recording, mixing and some mastering, using "Sonar" as my only DAW. We all know what happened when Gibson bought it. I considered switching to Pro Tools but I had Sonar installed and it still worked so I didn't. I am one of those that absolutely hates subscriptions so when Avid went to that model it was game over. My Biz has continued to grow at a pace that I am satisfied with, happy clients, and I have invested in other tools that like Softube Console 1 & Fader that integrate fully with cakewalk (not so much with Pro Tools though). My feeling is that I will continue to use the free version and see what kind of pricing scheme is attached to the new product. I am not adverse to paying for it, as I said I use it to generate a small income. Not having to pay to switch to a new DAW after having invested a lot of time and a fare amount of cash in my "Sonar - Cakewalk " journey was a blessing. I feel a certain amount of brand loyalty.
I guess I will just see what happens. If I do switch to another DAW it will have to fully integrate with mt Softube controllers; sorry Avid.
Very informative. Thank you.