Levi's 501 Jeans: Are They Worth It? (In-Depth Review)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- Our in-depth review on Levi's 501 Jeans, examine if they are worth every gentleman's money!: gentl.mn/levis-jeans-review
#levijeans #levi501jeans #notsponsored
GUIDES YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS:
→ 18 Movies Stylish Movies (1930s-1960s): gentl.mn/18-movies-menswear-fan
→ Gentleman of Style: James Dean: gentl.mn/gentleman-style-jame...
→ Should You Wear High-Waisted Pants?: gentl.mn/low-mid-vs-high-rise
→ The Best Jeans for Your Style & Body Type: gentl.mn/best-jeans-body-type-1
→ What to Wear When Traveling: gentl.mn/what-to-wear-when-tr...
→ Red Wing Boots: Are They Worth It?: gentl.mn/red-wing-boots-review-1
VIDEO CREDITS:
→ Script: Jack Collins
→ Camera & Editing: Chris Dummer
→ Levi's
→ Levi Strauss and Co.
→ IMDB
Want to stay updated? Sign up here for free:
→ gentl.mn/newsletter-and-ebook
Want to see more videos? Subscribe to our channel!
→ gentl.mn/youtube
Become a part of the Gentleman's Gazette community - support us on Patreon!
gentl.mn/patron
________________________________________________________________________
Gentleman's Gazette
www.gentlemansgazette.com/
gentl.mn/shop-fort-belvedere
Facebook: / gentlemansgazette
FREE EBOOK: gentl.mn/newsletter-and-ebook
00:00 Levi's 501 Jeans Introduction
Levi’s is perhaps the most iconic American jean, starting out as a heavy-duty workwear item and soon becoming a stylish fashion piece. Today, Levi’s jeans remain popular all over the world, but are they truly a great investment?
00:51 History of Levi's
The first pair of Levi’s 501 jeans were manufactured in 1890. Unfortunately, the company records before 1906 were lost, so not even Levi’s knows the origin of the 501 number, but we do know that it simply ties into the original riveted jeans.
02:23 Iconic Styling Details
We chose these jeans because they are a classic mid-blue color with tan stitching - kind of the quintessential jeans if you will.
05:44 Denim Fabric
With the different finishes available within the 501 style, it’s easy to see how there’s a difference in fabric that is used and how in recent years, the 501 has been more about focusing on fit rather than staying true to the original 501 model.
07:22 Fit (& Other Factors to Consider)
The straight fit against the leg is preferable for a much more classic wardrobe and will work with a number of items and a classic wardrobe as well.
We’ve already touched on some of the confusion around some of the different fit differences within the 501 range, but things get even more confusing when it comes to the price.
Levi’s seems to base much of their pricing based on location. For example, the pair of 501 jeans that we’re looking at today can be found for $59.50 if you’re in North America, or £75 if you’re in the United Kingdom. Even with a fluctuating exchange rate, that’s still quite the difference in price.
09:00 Buying Our 501s
The 501 jeans that we purchased are a great pair of jeans. They are a classic style that epitomize blue jeans, and it’s easy to see how Levi’s is so popular all over the world.
10:23 Are Levi’s 501s Worth It?
On average, yes. We think that they’re worth it. For regular readers of the Gentleman’s Gazette, we can imagine that these are going to be the ideal jeans for you to include in your wardrobe as the straight fit, the deep blue color will be an ideal thing that will work well with a lot of things in your wardrobe. Perhaps, even a piece of soft casual tailoring.
11:32 Outfit Rundown - Навчання та стиль
One major advantage of Levis is that they are available in a range of sizes. I’m 6’7 and it’s hard for me to get pants that fit me well, so I have been wearing 501s since I was a teen.
Yes, but their large sizes are really expensive. I am 6'4 and wore large sizes until that that happened.
Same here, you should check Ur local tailor, i got mine bootcut jeans for 50$
lol it’s the opposite for me. it’s hard for me to find jeans in my size (28x30) because of how little stock they make for them. unlike the bigger sizes like 34+ the people around size 30 don’t have the same luck.
My first jeans costed $9.30 and they lasted forever. Denim quality was much higher back then.
No the cost of textile labor was low.
@@snapcult464 still the quality was much better and the manufactures werent retards and spent all the money on marketing and scammign people. Also was made in the USA for example
@@rasperryguy1197 I have two of those kinds of jeans. My dad passed them on to me. One 505 and 501. They are about 20 years old
@@adityaroy7616 nice! I tjought the 505's were only about 5 years old?
@@snapcult464 nope they use cheaper denim and they make them in sweat shops now.
To help prevent fading, wash jeans inside out with the water temp set on "cold". Use Woolite "Dark" detergent.
Hang to dry or partially dry in a dryer with a timed setting (30 mins depending on machine and # of pairs of jeans) on "very low" temp setting. Also still inside out. Then hang after to completely dry.
The color will last longer.
Cheer detergent is good to prevent fading as well.
I never put jeans in the dryer. Line dry only.
@@RickJZ1973 Very important.
@@RickJZ1973 Yep. Always line dry.
I dry clean all my jeans....
After offshoring, the weight of the denim and the overall fit and finish of the 501 in particular and Levi's in general significantly declined. The then-chair of Levi's decimated what was left of U.S. manufacture and heavy weight denim construction. He's since been hired to be the chairman of Gibson Guitars, and I fully expect that the same pattern is going to repeat itself.
The problem being Americans won’t pay the cost of buying jeans made in the US. For some reason men can understand buying 500 dress shoes, but want 30$ jeans that look great and last forever.
I worked in the music industry, and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the Gibson employees (salesmen) and their reps are the worst humans on earth. Just dirtbag after dirtbag. Rude AF
@luke5100 Because I've been selling high end jeans since the early 90's. Tons of people wince at 300 bucks for jeans and wear Submariners.
In around 1971, as a kid. I bought my first pair of Levi's.
They was so stiff, they could stand up on their own! They lasted years. Climbing tree's and doing general kids stuff. Levi jeans have for the last 30+ years have been NO better than any other make. Imagine my joy on finding LVC vintage selvedge jeans. I bought two pairs £150 per pair. The knee on 1 pair split after 12 months.
The front pockets failed on both pairs.
At 65 years old. I no longer climb tree's etc.
If these LVC selvedge jeans were, what they was supposed to be. They would burying me in them at 100 years old.
Basically. Levi jean's are cheap rags. It pains me to say. But i will not buy another Levi product.
Japanese selvedge raw denim from now on.
U know levis makes legit selvedge also?
@@surfsessions100
Yes. And I bought 2 pairs. 2 years later the knees had split. And the pocket liners failed. I stand by what i said. Levis are rubish!
@@squigmcguigan8965 which line did u buy, made in crafted or the original vintage line.
Disappointed to hear that.
Personally I've always appreciated Levis.
The era of people doing field heavy jobs are vanishing,Clothes makers survey who' s majority, people don't wear 12oz jeans sitting in front of computers and if you want to buy jeans for barns jobs there are the suitable brands and model
I always love Kyles style in these, vintage styled pieces with a nice modern twist. Very refreshing and well put together, absolutely love his videos and can't wait to see more of him in the future.
Dockers was actually a company Levi's owned , it was meant for the more business causal work wear
They still owne it.
Let’s keep it to every 10 years like an true cowboy
5:33 Also copper is pretty soft and expensive. It was originally used for rivets because it's malleable and easy to work with. Now days with better technology and higher copper prices due to the high demand of the electronics and electrical industries, rivets tend to be made from cheaper alloys that can do a better job,
For me, the standout when buying levi’s is the service. Even in outlet stores, they’re typically very well stocked and the staff are very helpful. It’s one of the few brands I will occasionally shop at retail, because the extra money you pay is worth tge great service, and the knowledge that if you go to a levi’s store, unless you’re very hard to size, you will walk out with something that fits great.
Just bought me a pair of Levi's 511. Have to admit that the wash and fabric quality are just sublime for its price. I used to find the pricing restrictive, but I found one which I wanted and I grabbed it.
For me, the modern one's aren't worth it anymore. 20 years ago, the quality was better. So, I only buy them vintage.
The fabric seems much thinner these days.
Good luck finding ones that aren’t stretch nowadays. I’m buying vintage and repairing as well. Such a shame. Their flagship model and they turn them into jeggings!
20 years ago?? They were already really bad 20 years ago. The average person has not been able to buy good quality levis since 1986, the last year of what is considered "vintage". That said , Levis used to have Vintage Clothing line that reproduced versions of their classic jeans using the original cotton but since the original milling factory (Cone Mills) shut down, the quality has deteriorated. But who cares ultimately? We shouldn't be buying brands anyway which are little more than marketing gimmicks today
For those into vintage denim there are plenty of smaller companies today that do it right and are not cliches
@@mcribs7811
Yup. Their 501’s have version with 1 or 2% elastane. Look horrible after drying em.
@1965lo I like Edwin and Nudie Jeans. If you want a vintage cut, I would have a look at Pike Brothers. But the most jeans made of 100% cotton in a thicker fabric are ok if you like the fit. :)
I remember both of those Levi's commercials from when I was a kid...I feel really old now. Thanks for that...
Me too! I was in high school 🙁
I love Kyle since he always talks about Brands such as Banana Republic, Hugo Boss, J. Crew and Levi's brands that are appealing to young men.
Don't get me wrong I love Ralphel style but many of us don't have money or means to afford alot his things in his wardrobe.
Check out Raphael's videos on buying at thrift and consignment shops. He discusses getting high end wardrobe items for very little. Often you can find things that were never worn and still have tags on them.
Raphael’s style is too outdated for my liking
Great video.
Really appreciate the history and in depth look at the 501.
I’ve been a wearer of these jeans for years.
The fit has definitely changed over the years and when I find one I like, I stock up.
Love the button fly and the general history of these jeans.
Just wish they were still made heavier and in the USA.
Thanks again!
U can have a look at the vintage collection of Levi's. "self edge" jeans with the best quality. But it's very expensive.
Good comment 👍
This was unexpected
501s are coming back into fashion with the latest workwear trends. Whilst the price for vintage levis is going up, there’s a much bigger appreciation for a nice fade and worn in pair- especially made in the USA or from 60s through to the 90s. Always a classic.
Olly Grayson
Black shoes
mercedes
and levis 501
are ALWAYS IN FASHION!
501s are NEVER out of fashion. If you're the only one wearing them, they just make you look even cooler.
Used to wear 501 when they were 5 bucks a pair today's not as good the older jeans had a thick leather Levi patch on them and were made in USA
They make all the old styles, 1947, 1955, 1954z, 1966 and more in their Levi’s Vintage Clothing line. Quality raw selvedge denim, was made using USA Cone Denim until they sadly closed that denim plant in 2018. Now its japanese denim made in Bulgaria.
I miss the leather patch, not sure of the brand but I had one pair where the patch acted like a belt loop. As a belt wearer, it is sad to have the patch covered by the belt.
@@canadafree2087 Lee do that. Never seen Levi’s do it. You sure it wasn’t Lee?
I went away for a bit but the "Is it worth it?" series brought me back! Just thought you should know it was a great idea! Thanks
PS- loved the video. Great outfit too!
That was really cool how you guys put the old Levi's commercials at the end of the video unexpected but I loved it
Well, Levis specially the 501s were no doubt the ultimate jeans. I wore them right from my school times but the quality has been degraded over the time. That kind of denim is very hard to see now a days.....what we have today is cheap fabric sold with the “Levis” and a huge price tag. Looking forward to see Levi’s goes back to that era again.....
Levi’s have been the uniform of my life. However I am extremely disappointed with the company. They dumped all the 12 dollar an hour jobs in Texas in favor of overseas manufacturing, as you mentioned. Always disappointing when an iconic American company ships its jobs overseas.
501 was my go to favorite Jean. I’ve recently converted to wrangler 13mwz jeans. I find they are higher quality for less cost. They are kind of cowboy looking though so they aren’t for everyone.
Excellent video brother. I love your very gentle voice so claiming makes me want to watch your videos more
Excellent video and very informative. Well done sir.
Could NEVER go wrong w/ a pair of 501's, or Levi's PERIOD! I have a few pairs of 501's that are almost 15-yrs old and still look brand new!!!
I like this presenters calm voice and demeanor. I don't like all these UA-camrs who yell and talk too fast. Great job! Love 501's by the way
Me too. Well said.
I bought 3 pairs of 511’s from Macy’s online... all 3 fit different
Didn’t expect to see Levi jeans on this channel, but that’s not a bad thing! Blue jeans, Levi’s especially, are a huge part of American style history (I can’t speak to other countries) and roast me as you will, but I personally believe a well fit jean can MAKE a solid casual gentlemanly outfit. Love the content!
Many years ago - 10 to 20 - The president of Levi's had an article on the front page of the San Francisco Chronicle about the best way to get your Levi's to wear a long time. He recommended you rinse it only without soap and hang out to dry rather than subject them to the harsh hot air in clothes dryers. I remember it because I was surprised his suggestion might reduce sales over the long run.
Cool video. The only jeans I have worn since I was a kid are 501's. I'll never change.
In the south you can get a pair of 501s for about $50. However, I have bought them at Brooks Brothers for $125. The denim for the Brooks Brothers jeans was much thicker and the quality was much better. We found a pair of Levis my husband wore back in the 80s and the quality of the denim was the same as the Brooks Brothers $125 pair we bought several years ago. I think the denim and quality of Levis has gone down very much in recent years. You can buy them at Costco, where the denim is thin. I did buy a Levis jacket recently which seemed to be made well but all the other denim jackets I looked at were made well too. I find the women's sizes to run small and short.
I looked pretty cool in my $10 501's, paired with Red Ball Jets and a baseball shirt. That was the uniform we all wore as we delivered newspapers on our spider bikes. All those things were made in the US so, they were definitely worth it. Today, naahh!
I did not know Levi’s was in the caliber to be an “is this worth it” item. I was expecting the bespoke dress shirt video.
In the US, it definitely is not, but outside of the US, Levi's has always been more of a luxury product. I remember as a kid growing up in Germany, Levi's 501 were the most expensive jeans where I lived. Even today, they sell fo the equivalent of $120 - $250 over there. In the US you can get them for under $40 on amazon... Many brands realized that entering new markets was a chance for them to position themselves in a new light. It's the same with McDonalds. In the US they are the cheapest tier of fast food, in Eastern Europe or Asia they are a being rich and having made it...
@@gentlemansgazette So since we should wash it to make it last longer; then it is not of good quantity...?
Gentleman's Gazette I'm so glad you cleared that up. Been wearing them since '73. But you're right about overseas. Friend's parents took her brothers to USSR in the '70's for a graduation gift. Everywhere they went they wear asked for Levi's & Playboy mags! 😂
@@gentlemansgazette I don't agree actually. At least in Sweden, Levi's are "regular jeans", both in price and "status". Brands like Nudie Jeans are luxury products, Levi's 501's are quite cheap and just everyday stuff. (Price comparison: Levi's about $100 USD full price, often on sale for $50, Nudie Jeans $280 USD, never seen them on sale).
@@gentlemansgazette "Even today, they sell fo the equivalent of $120 - $250 over there."
Where is "over there" exactly? They are about $50 USD on Amazon in Europe right now.
i’ve just made the shift from Wrangler’s to Levis’ and so far i’m enjoying it very much… looking to purchasing more in the near future…
Levis 501 is Legendary
In the 90s I worked a few doors down from the Regents Street UK Flagship Levis store..... they did very well out of my purchasing of 501's....
There seems to be a bit of a difference in branding between the US and in Europe. In Europe most places I've seen online and in store only seem to sell the "levi's premium" line whereas in the US from what I understand they don't sell levi's premium in regular stores. I wonder if there's much of a quality difference between the regular and the premium line but it's probably why there's such a price differnece between the US and Europe.
This was excellent, thanks!
Got some limited Levi’s made in the USA from a mill in North Carolina. Today’s are not worth the price as they are made overseas and marked up in the USA. Lots of other options available today.
Facts ☝🏽
They sold there old equipment to evisu Japanese label who went on to become big in Europe. Dont about USA .they would of been about $250-350 in 1999 approx ao not cheap . But would last for a life time
@@kopitegs very sad
U can still get one made I the USA. They drop "made in USA" jeans once in a while. They even promote it with "made in USA". And don't underestimate Japanese denim with American and Italian denim the best in the world.
Thank you. Good video. The quality of Levis and 501s are not the same as they used to be. But they are still a solid value.
Nice video and information about LVC.
Absolutely worth it !! I love rocking mine pairing them with Timberland boat shoes! Or even with my Ariat Texan boots occassionaly!!
I still got 501s from 20 years ago i used to wear them in high school when baggy was in style, now that im a grown man they fit just right. 👍
Love your videos kann you make a video about different lapels ? I would love to know more about the formal differentes. ❤️❤️❤️
I'm 53 and in my Twenties 501s were all I wore but then I bought few pairs that didn't last as long and then I discovered carhartt I've got amazing pair of faded indigo western jeans that I've had 10 plus years and I love them. I've also got in my collection a pair of roundhouse and they've worn and faded beautifully too. I don't think I could ever go back to Levi's. The denims too light.
Believe it or not, the best quality jeans I’ve ever owned are a pair from Brooks Brothers I’ve had for 12 years. They’ve never faded, shrunken, frayed, pilled, or stained and I’ve worn them heavily. $200 was a lot for me to spend on jeans at the time but was clearly worth it.
Which jeans?
That sounds like no fun at all
@@surfsessions100 Yeah, because gotta keep consuming sh!t to have any fun and meaning in life.
Best jeans I found from Jack and Jones with affordable price
Thanks. Great info
I wore Levi 560 for 30 years but recently switched to Carhartt with the double front and they last 4 times longer as work pants. Tip: Carhartts with leather rear patches are made in Mexico, the ones with fabric patches are Made in USA.
I like the double front as well.
560 was the first pair of Levi's that i remember getting brand new back in 1997 when they were advertised as loose fit, tapered leg!
Great video!
Absolutely amazing video the 501 model is all that I wear!
Bought a pair for 140€ in Portugal. Customer service was great though i wasn't expecting less for such an expensive store.
6:03 Oh, boy… Yesterday I was on Levi's website and I happened to misread the exact same word. I came back later in order to double check the information and had to read that part three times until I got it right.
Good to know I'm not the only one! :-)
I don’t wear jeans that often but when I do I prefer a more classic take on the jeans with wider legs and a higher rise.
Can you do an “is it worth it” video on R M Williams Chelsea boots. Thank you, keep it up!
They’re definitely worth it mate, best boots you’ll ever own, I’ve had my pair for about 5 years and wear them everyday, even wore them to my wedding... goes well with a business suit or jeans
@@christianmarth9989
I've heard many compare them to Carmina boots, some even saying they are better. Do you own any Carmina boots and if so how do they compare in your opinion?
@@bigvanvader3122 I don’t own a pair of Carmina boots so can’t compare although looking at them the RMs are crafted with a single piece of leather and don’t have a seam under the elastics like the Carminas do.
RM Williams have been making elastic sided boots in their factory in Adelaide since 1934, I’ve seen pairs of RMs over 40 years old still looking sharp, they’re the kind of boot you only need to purchase once in your life....
@@christianmarth9989
Thanks and I've heard people say that. I've been debating between Carmina and RM Williams for my first pair of chelsea boots.
Rm Williams is the goat of boots. I have had one for 7 years and they are too good. Hands down the best.
Once every 10 YEARS... 😂 Great video...I gave one of my sons the very first 501 I bought in 1985 (USA) and it's still perfect (Very good condition). Cheers. Zep.
You have the smoothest voice my friend. Sounds like how silk feels
I altered my uncles denim and they're now my favourite set of pairs
My dad gave me his old jeans from the late 70s to 80s and they rock
Great episode :)
You are my favorite! Thank you sir!
You mentioned the competition that levis faced in the 80s and 90s one of the brands you mentioned was Dockers which was started by levis and still owned by them
Have Levi’s that are 20 years old and still going strong. Some of the newer jeans are more prone to crotch wearing through as the denim seems thinner.
Levis quality control went out the window decades ago so make sure you go to a place were you can try them on before you buy a pair. Pants marked as the same size can range from; can't get them buttoned to falling down your legs.
Can you do a field jacket review? I like that look!
Its worth it. Wrangler and Levis will always be my favorite jeans (skinny or slim taper) its perfect and of course the 519 which is the xtreme skinny
Love Levi's 501s....their Red loop fitting are awesome ...dont know whether this redloop is only here at Asia...
A Levis vs Lee vs Wrangler , three classic workers brands would be fun. There is for me lots of milage in classic workware including shoes boots and jackets..
This is my favorite host on this show!
I was very dedicated to levis until around 2010 when I started to notice very inconsistent quality, sizing, and even materials used. Wranglers have been my go to jeans since.
I like Lee jeans
These vintage commercials are soo cool👍🏻
This was great 👍🏼
@07:02, yes the production costs are cheaper overseas but the retail costs are at a rate as if they were manufactured locally
Levi's is on top the product chain!
Visited a Levi factory once where the pants were being made for Euro/Asian Market and Kohl’s stores. The cost to manufacture vs the retail is bonkers smh
Tell us more. How do they determine where to sell them vs what factory they are made in.
"Once every 10 years" lol imagine
I bought a pair of 501 dark blue non stone wash last year. After wearing it for few month, small spots start to appear. Slowly these spots turned white and fabric disintegrated away. So now I have a new 501 with 3 spots. I have no idea how the spots came about and tried recalling if I had in contact with any chemicals. But none. I’m just very disappointed with Levi’s. And this had never happened to my other jeans before.
Just got a set of 512s, same indigo dark wash colour, but in a slim taper fit.
However, it should be noted that they smell a bit after you wash them for the first time, which I've read is formaldehyde, that they use on them
I’ve had a lot of Levi’s and I like the fit but I just find they wear out fast. I recently started trying out wranglers and they seem atleast a bit more rugged
Without watching the episode, I can without a doubt say, yes. I just bought a new pair of Stay Loose Levi's.
More about the Japanese denim pants please!
My husband has worn the classic button fly 501's since 1982 (when we both started high school). He has never worn any other brand of jean. I absolutely love the way he looks in them. I always have. They are definitely worth it in my humble opinion. ;)
Blue jeans is the most practical everyday wear in southern USA. Levi 501 jeans are great but I mostly buy the more affordable Wrangler Carpenter relaxed fit jeans. Plenty of room to fit my cowboy boots under them.
I'm having trouble deciding between 501s and 502s. Do the 502s have a lower rise than the 501s? I want a classic versatile look, even though I'm tall and thin, so I would like more mid-rise pants.
I love the nod to Americana good work guys
20-25 years ago i used to buy only 501 jeans. All the time had up to 10 pairs. Even visited factory in SF ...
did you have them in different colors?
@@gac8054 yes but mainly regular blue
It was in 19 72 or around that time when I was 10 I'm thinking about 7 $ on sale for regular price 10 to 12$ S F Bay. This is the first time I've remember Wearing them and wearing 501s Ever since. They totally are worth it
I have to go 2 sizes down in length size on Levi's, but width is normal
In the Netherlands these cost between 100 and 120 euros
In the 90's I got my first job at Sears in the mens department. And a few times a year Russian tourists would come into the store and a swear to god they would buy every simple 501 we had in the store. I asked them why they did that and they said at the time they could t get them in Russia and they had a ridiculously high resale value over there.
You can't even imagine how much these jeeps cost in Russia now 😂
Maybe over twenty five years ago they were worth the cost when they were made in the U.S. I stopped buying Levi's when they were no longer made in America.
Great content - wash once every 10 years ! Classic Kyle Quote.
Never dry 501s they will hold the ironing much better as they will be almost plywood stiff after drying. I always buy mine 2 inches longer than I normally ware...it's a cowboy thing from being in the saddle...but I think the bunching of the starched legs looks best.
I would recommend the sugarcane dungarees jeans or Pike Brothers. 21-ounce raw denim.
Not sure if the 501s really warrant an "Is It Worth It?" feature. Tons of people wear these on a regular basis, and for most of us they sit between $50-$80, and kinda max out at ~$100 depending on where you're at. When you consider the type of high-end products this series usually covers, it doesn't really fit.
That said, I definitely think it would've made more sense to cover something from the LVC or Made & Crafted lines, or even Lot 1s. Those are a much higher price tag, and hopefully much higher quality, but not quite as accessible or well-known to everyone
The last pair of 501s I bought were when the shrink-to-fits cost $22 USD. I can't believe the MSRP is now $59. I've been buying Costco's Kirkland brand at $12.99 ever since.
Do something on Carharts. I may have misspelled that.
Obsessed with those old adverts, especially that animation!!
if tv was like those days i would still watch it.
When I was a kid having Levi's was top of the hill. I only got Sears Toughskins, although in many colors. Purple was a favorite. LOL.
I had those too. The knees would wear out....after a long while, then my mom used those iron on patches. It was so hard getting rid of those things.