Why is the Turkish Citizenship by Investment Program misunderstood?
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- There are too many misconceptions about the Turkish Citizenship by Investment program, especially in Western circles. In this video with my Istanbul realtor and my friend Brian we attempt to set the record straight.
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Time Stamps
00:00 Introduction
01:20 Who is buying Turkish citizenship?
04:00 Turkish citizenship creates a legacy
05:15 A big regional power
06:20 Why are Westerners buying Turkish citizenship?
09:15 Misconceptions North Americans have when buying Turkish citizenship
11:00 Which Europeans are buying Turkish citizenship?
14:00 Turkey opens the door to a new reality for CBI investors
20:00 Investing in your access to the East
29:00 What real estate mix to invest in for the Turkish CBI?
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No part whatsoever of the discussion and presentation is, or should be considered as, investment advice, financial advice, legal advice, or tax advice. Always do proper due diligence and speak to a qualified professional advisor in your jurisdiction. Also, be advised that Ladislas Maurice and The Wandering Investor staff may own real estate or investments in the specific markets or opportunities that are discussed. The Wandering Investor may also have marketing agreements in place with certain opportunities that are mentioned.
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Excellent talk, thank you for preparing.
My family and I obtained Turkish citizenship via. the investment program. I also reside in Turkey.
Your commentary accurately portrays the situation in Türkiye.
I have never regretted my decision to relocate and purchase property in Türkiye.
A few additional thoughts....
Turks have a clear and resilient culture but they are inclusive of people and cultures from other countries. This reflects the history of the country - the Ottoman Empire was inclusive of other people. (This contrasts with Europe, Australia etc where governments have forced people to abandon their culture, while effectively conducting open border policies and all the problems that come with that).
The government here is effective and easy to work with - officials are solution focused, rather the following the US, Australian etc approach of trying to find problems and stopping regulatory transactions/solutions.
İndeed, I was in Ukraine looking at investment opportunities when the conflict escalated on 24 February 2022. İt was difficult getting out of the country at that time. The Australian Embassy were useless, simply interested in counting how many Australians were in country (I also have an Australian passport).
With my new Turkish passport the Turkish Embassy and government actively communicated with me and assisted citizens depart the country. I was really impressed by this.
On taxes, income taxes are high but taxes on property are very low, around 5% what we were paying for a similar property in the US. Food, utilities, services around (on average) a third of the cost of the US, EU, UK etc. İt varies according to the good or service, but generally much cheaper. Foreign sourced pensions are also free of income tax.
From my experience investing and living in Türkiye has generated nothing but upsides. The people here are warm, inclusive and helpful. İt's lovely living in a civilizational country with a thriving and inclusive indigenous culture and way of life.
Amazing insights. Thank you for sharing Sarah 👍🇹🇷 and congrats!
Did you give up US citizenship or residency, or did you just own property in the US as a non-resident?
I kind of agree with you. I also acquired Turkish citizenship when the threshold was at 250$K. Properties appreciated in last 2 years. But haven't started living in the country though I love the vibe, culture and beauty. I guess living and learning will help adapt to lifestyle. Close proximity to Europe and Middle East is a plus.
@@naveed09ful well done!
@@elliotgbrownSo cool asking questions without reading the comment. She is obviously Australian dumb fk.
Thank you for having me on!
Thanks for the video. New subscriber here. One of the main concerns I have with acquiring this passport, especially as it relates to future generations is the requirement that all Turkish citizens mandatory requirement to enrol in the military, i.e., military draft. Having my son or daughter being forced to join the military and potentially die ... I don't think any parent looking for generational CBI's should consider Turkey. If they made a rule that descendants from CBI recipients didn't have to serve in the military, then I'd jump at the opportunity. But forcing all my descendants into this ... no thanks.
As a non resident, as the rules currently stand, you can pay to avoid military service. Also, if the rules do change the son can renounce when he turns 18
Hmm. Wondering what loud/disrespectful things these north american's were doing. Interesting video and great advice that you need to show respect.
Thank you. I liked your video. You have few good points. Turkey is more about civilization and culture. it can not be compared with an caribbian passport.
This was a great video. Thank you.
A great video again. Thank you guys 🫶🏻
OMG! I loved the entire video! So much information and great discussion too. Thank you😊
Keith funny as always 😂 and when it comes to real estate he is second to none.
Very informative video.
Great Job Ladislas, you are doing wonderful job for many... 👍
as usual, great video
Thank you
This video is a perfect encapsulation of why you should get a Turkish passport as a geopolitical hedge.
Completely different point of view, thank you so much for that video. I believe that it will raise so much interest.
Turkey and especially Istanbul have good location between three continents...That reason makes it aim for all investors around the world to invest in it...Historical areas with sea views make it aim to be visited by tourists especially in summer season...
Even the average of property price is the cheapest according to international property prices around the world...
It must be the best area for investing...
amazing analysis! Great to see Keith and Ladislas together again :)
Thank you. Keith is great 👍
Great video, Great passport and Great, Modern and a plesant country to live in
You hit the nail on the coffin about Americans! I am glad you mentioned this because as an American and having traveled to other countries, it is embarrassing to see the level of ethnocentricity of Americans when in other countries! Another excellent video...!
Love this video, I lived in Bodrum for a year and my wife wanted to try Portugal. 5 months later we are moving Back to Bodrum and moving forward with Citizenship. My goodness I miss it.
Congrats!
@TheWanderingInvestor Thanks man, it's definitely home for me.
You guys are hitting the nail in the head!! I love how respectful you all are, but still making a point. We live in the USA and were thinking to apply for TRC via buying properties, today I found minimum price of property now increased from $75,000 from $200,000, so I guess citizenship route sounds more beneficial to me, as there wouldn’t be renewal headaches and then still being unsure if citizenship would be granted after several years. Thank you for the video!
Thank you. Make sure to get in touch with Keith. He can help you find decent properties: keith@thewanderinginvestor.com. Include your Whatsapp.
Well done Ladislas. Like the vid people.
Great video, more on Turkey!
More coming 👍
Would also like you to cover the new and improved changes to the Egyptian CBI program, it seems they are competing with Turkey. @@TheWanderingInvestor
@@internationaljohngalt5870 video tomorrow on Egypt 👍
Appreciate the real added value of info & the different angle of view. I have to say that we as Arabs (I'm from Egypt) do still have our own misperception to the Turkish example. But putting it in that perspective I believe its a real case to study & do the proper due diligence as you usually ask us to do. My inquiry to you for the option of residency not investment (considering other cheap accessible options in Balkans like Bulgaria / Romania / Slovakia...etc. with favorable access to the EU) what could be the acceptable average limit of financial assets to start with? ...
Residency through investment is becoming harder and harder in Europe. Europe hates money. They either want legal immigration (through work, study, family reunification) or the illegal kind with people showing up on boats. Don’t ask me why.
Wow -- where is this beautiful scene at 16:50?
Fascinating discussion, by the way,,,
Looks like it’s somewhere northeast.
I was wondering why you don't invest in commercial real estate, and most of them are in residential real estate.
I was about to in Ukraine but it blew up in my face.
I’m open to commercial. Actually, Keith alhas good deals on commercial units in Izmir. High yields.
Thanks for the video! I’ve also heard about Armenia rolling out CBI, which obviously has an adversarial relationship with Turkey. If an Anglo-looking North American or European were looking at getting a passport and traveling in that part of Eurasia (Turkey/Caucasus), how would they be looked at holding one or the other when traveling between those countries, and Georgia, etc?
In Georgia it’s fine. As for Armenia / Turkey just use your anglo passport to avoid extra questioning.
One of best value CBIs for me if it wasn't so earthquake prone. Difficult language, inflation will also affect ROI down the road IMO.
Pros are too many to mention making it worth while.
Thank you, great video. I live in Paris, France, and agree with 80% of what was said. Turks have a very good reputation as business people , friends and workers , whatever people think about their leaders. One caveat, China and Russia are absolutely not kind or friendly to their neighbors, and never were , throughout history. Which means , Vietnam, Poland, Indonesia, South Korea, Romania, the Philipines etc. etc.. , even India, will look for alliances to counterballance these powers and their predatory behaviors.
A ruthless world indeed
Great work guys!
I just wanted to ask if someone doesn't want to invest that much or doesn't have any immediate plans of getting the citizenship and wants to see how things go, then can he or she buy property in Turkey in less than 400000? What is the minimum budget one must have in mind before buying a good property that could give 6% or more annual rental income?
If yes, then is there a possibility of buying more properties later on to get the citizenship?
TIA
Thank you. Yes, you can buy an appartment now, and then the next ones next year IF THE PROGRAM DOES NOT CHANGE. Some people were doing this when it was $250k and then had to rush last minute or increase the investment amount when it moved to $400k last year.
Watching this 7 months later. Agree on most of the points mentioned about Türkiye being an amazing country. Love the culture, the food, the history, etc..
Two concerns here:
1- With the Lira continuing to fall (now USD/TRY at 32.30), how do you see a potential real estate investment panning out? Would someone be able to even breakeven with that rate of currency depreciation (even if Turkish real estate is priced in USD)?
2- If you speak to Turks, many either left the country or can’t wait to leave as economic conditions worsen. This has, in turn, created negative emotions towards foreigners (specifically certain groups of foreigners, such as Syrians or Arabs in general).
@Ladislas, what’s your view on these two points?
1. I Capital controls are also a risk. Overall Istanbul is still very inexpensive, if you buy right, from an international city point of view. This limits downside. But anything can happennin such a volatile region.
2. Yes, a lot of Arabs complain about discrimination. But many also live peacefully in traditional neighbourhoods where Islam is stronger; this religious link tends to lessen some of these tensions.
@@TheWanderingInvestor thanks for the response.
You should talk about income, dividend, capital gains and inheritance taxation for residents and citizens for the countries you talk about - that's more important than travel options for many people
This was a discussion on investing in a new citizenship for geopolitical diversification. Citizenship ≠ tax residency.
fair enough
Any idea if the threshold could be lowered in the future?
I would tend to think there is no chance of this happening
Also, may I suggest that when you talk of $400k investment for citizenship, you note if that is for one property or can be multiple. Also, what about mortgages? Are they available? Is the $400k the gross investment ie can it be $100k deposit with $300k debt?
Can be multiple properties. No local mortgages. But you can use debt from back home (not that you should).
@@TheWanderingInvestor Thank you Sir. And I meant to say - I love your work!
Can't really see why NOT to use back home mortgage. Though I guess would affect local corporation numbers, for CGT etc.
NB I subscribed to newsletter, 3 hours ago, and no email received.
Assuming it's an auto email response.
@@JonathanDavis1 thank you. The risk is not being able to service the debt in case of currency issues or capital controls.
@@JonathanDavis1 can you check your spam? You should have received an email with the free ebook.
Not sure about the two apartments and beach home comment. 400k USD gets us something very standard in Bodrum
Bodrum has become very expensive. There are many, much more affordable beach destinations.
@TheWanderingInvestor Not with nicer beaches though and overall class.
Hi does it have to be one property of 400000 or can you buy multiple props that equal this sum ? Other videos are saying rules have changed and you need to invest all 400000 into one prop to get the citizenship ? Thanks in advance
Not true. It can be multiple properties.
@TheWanderingInvestor thankyou for clarification much appreciated 👍
What about taxation on global income on the basis of 183 day tax resident or below 183 days stay as non resident tax which should not apply for global taxation. Can you please explain?
If you’re not a tax resident of Turkey, you’re fine.
$400,000 what currency
USD
Im an american citizen interested in CBI. 35 years ago I committed a felony, but other than that my record is spotless, just made that one mistake. So how big an issue is having a felony on your record for CBI in Turkey? Is it automatic disqualification?
Turkey does not ask for a criminal background check
@@J0HN_3_16 They changed the rules on January 1st 2024. Criminal background check now required…
@@J0HN_3_16 For CBIs not anymore, but Mexico is a good option if you’re willing to spend time there. They never ask for a criminal background check.
You mentioned that the citizenship is generational. What if my kids are over 18 years old? Can they still qualify???
Unfortunately not. Only children below the age of 18, future children, and future descendents if they register the births at Turkish consulates.
Any experience with Dutch people applying for second passport? The rules here are not quite clear to me. There are cases where you can lose your Dutch identity when applying for another passport.
Yes. For now not allowed for the Dutch to acquire a second passport through investment.
Downside is your kids have to join the Turkish army, understand this.
Not the females. As for the males they can choose to renounce before the age of 18 or pay a fine to avoid military service.
@@TheWanderingInvestorthat option of paying your way out might not always be available.
@@phytosfaves It’s a risk indeed. Worst case scenario the boys can choose to renounce at the age of 18 if things did change.
Think Vietnam war and how many fled to Canada and other countries@@phytosfaves
I wish you would mention also what each nation was like over the last 3 years, in relation to enforcement or otherwise of masks, 'vax passports', and levels of coercion to receiving the vaxes.
Some topics are best discussed on other platforms.
@@TheWanderingInvestor Actually it's the principal reason for many for wanting to flee the West.
What’s the benefit for Canadians to have a Turkish passport?
A hedge against Trudeau and his peers
It does not appear that the real estate prices are as you say, less comparatively than other countries. That was the case a year ago.
Prices have gone up. But still comparatively cheap for a city of 15 million people, and growing.
Thank you very much for this great video. Is it possible to obtain Turkish citizenship by investing 400k in real estate with one's own company rather than as a physical person?😢
Glad you like it 👍. Unfortunately not. You need to invest in your own name.
@@TheWanderingInvestor thanks
As EU citizen I still don’t see so many benefits of having Turkish passport. You don’t need it to get access to EU for obvious reasons as EU citizen, you can still access most of, if not all of, middle eastern countries. Yes, Turkish passport may be better for some African countries or Russia but a marginal benefit in my opinion. I would have a different view if I had American citizenship, but EU still ok. Happy to change my view.
It’s not about travel. It’s about geopolitical diversification
Yes but you can have real estate in Turkey without going through CBI if that’s what geopolitical diversification is about.
The reason not to do it is because you need $US400k cash Or is it more like $450k when all the fees that's involved with buying a property is taken into account? It's very attractive, would like to be able to take advantage of this but that's a big chunk of cash. Need to sharpen my pencil. This was good I'll have to watch back your other Turkish videos. Any children you have in the future can become Turkish citizens, what about current/future wife?
Yes. Budget $450k 👍. And renovations are not included in the numbers. So you’d have to buy in a good condition to not have to raise the budget. Legally married wife is included. Not the future wife.
@@TheWanderingInvestor I will have to slow down on my Ethical non-monogamy ambitions :)
Keith; me a Pakistani; can you assist me to get Turkish citizenship; ready to invest 400,000 USD
Yes. Please send him an email keith@thewanderinginvestor.com and mention your Whatsapp #
Turkey is an interventionist power just like britain and france. Many people around the world see turks as a nuisance too.
Its much better to get citizenship of a country like Brazil which is not involved in any conflicts...
For sure a Brazilian passport is better in most cases. But you won’t get it by sitting at home and buying a property remotely.
@@TheWanderingInvestor of course its more difficult. But Brazil was just an example.
My main point was that turkey is not some benign likable teddybear that your guests are projecting it as while contrasting it with uk and France. For example a turkish passport will draw heavy unwanted scrutiny in emerging markets like China and India. Simply due to turkey's arrogant geopolitical escapades exact same as uk and France.
@@user-xw3vi4nk2y Nobody said it’s a teddybear. Again, it depends on which parts of the world. In China, much of South East Asia, and Africa a Turkish passport is better. In India a French passport is better in many ways simply because Indians are islamophobic for the most part, irrespective of Turkish foreign policy.
@@TheWanderingInvestor china does extreme verting of most travellers or investors from all muslim countries including turks and Arabs. While in India's case they are most welcoming of Arab tourists and investors but very suspicious of turks. Clearly the reason lies with turkey's geopolitical alliance woth pakistan. Anyway, its I find it rather stupid to tar 1.4bn people as simply islamophobic. Maybe nuance isn't for everone.
You need 6 eyes to stand a chance to watch your back and not get stabbed every day
Put your kids through the Turkish education system and send your sons to military service and then see if you can't have opinions while knowing your place or being reminded of it.