You may say it wasn't useful, but the information was useful in a different way. If capsaicin didn't taint the second brew appreciably, I think this demonstrates that you can use washed yeast in a brew with a completely different profile without worry about mixing flavors.
Its great that you ran and published the experiment even though the results were about how something didn't have much of an effect. Its still very useful info that can guide a lot of people towards more promising experimentation.
Hi, i found out about your channel a couple of weeks ago. I never brew any thing in my life. But i do bake bread, pizza using sourdough starter. This couple of weeks watching you making mead, made me wounder if it was possible to use brewing yeast several times, as we do with sourdough starter. What a lovely coincidence you just addressed this issue in this video.
Normally post washing, you would put the yeast in the fridge for it to solidify on the bottom and pour off all that liquid. All of that liquid even though it was watered down a couple times... could have residual heat in it. If the yeast itself was 1/4 inch on the bottom when compacted... the extra water does increase the chance of a flavor transfer.
When you wash yeast, you're basically separating and diluting down the original solution (must/wort) to a nearly inconsequential amount, but I don't think you could say it's ever 100% "clean." With that being said, there are definitely certain flavor compounds that are more highly perceptible than others, so it's probably good to think through what your original brew has and where you want to reuse it. I think the experiment was still a great idea and hopefully it springboards more tests by other people too.
Classique is one of my favorite yeasts especially for cider. I feel like of the many yeasts I've tried this one lets the original flavors shine threw the most. So a excellent choice for this experiment.
I once made an IPA with an expensive yeast and thought of reusing it. I went as far as collecting it in a mason jar and keeping it on the fridge for about a month, but I ended throwing it away. Wish I knew about yeast washing back then. Thanks for the videos. Because of your channel, I have two 1-gal meads fermenting right now and im really excited to transfer them to secondary and eventually bottle them.
Great video. When I reuse the yeast I use it in the same recipe. Yeast right out of the box do not have a specific flavor profile, they have a general ester profile and some are better for one style or flavor than another. They do become acclimated to a certain style and are great for reproducing the same flavor. I have two yeats that I reuse, my mixed berry mead yeast and floral mead yeast. While it is possible for them to impart the flavor from one to another, as you have found, it is very subtle. Reusing it for the same recipe, at least to me (might just be in my head though), can get the flavors to pop sooner and give it more complexity.
My understanding is the middle layer is the active yeast. The bottom layer is some active yeast, dead yeast/hulls, and must sediment. That being said; my experience is that you still want to reuse yeast in moderately similar brews.
I think this is a very useful video! It helps help set boundaries in when there can be adverse (or beneficial) effects in recycling yeast depending on the batch source. What I’m curious about though is how far you can go with recycling yeast. How many times can you use the same yeast without it becoming inactive/contaminated and what is the best method to extend longevity? That’d be an amazing video imo
I'm super excited about this video! I've been reusing yeast recently.... I did not know about washing..... Soo curious about how this turns out.... (Did I mess up not washing?)
A centrifuge would probably help here, but I do believe that a small residual taste can be imparted. Thanks for the video and the continued myth buster series!
I tried using some goop from some washed Oslo kveik yeast in a small traditional, and what it *did* do was it changed the color a good bit. I don't really think it affected the flavor though, but also I think that what I actually added to the must contained essentially no yeast (when I washed the yeast, it split into two sections of solids, some that sank to the bottom and other that floated to the top, I tried using the one at the top but I think the yeast is all at the bottom)
From my experience if you are going to reuse yeast you should go from less flavor to more flavor, as in if you make a traditional mead you can reuse the yeast to make a melomel, but if you make a strong fruited melomel you shouldn't try to make a traditional with the washed yeast
Awesome video, very interesting! I have a possible topic you could do a video on. So I know it's not too complex but could you talk about water sources you use for mead? Like, tap water vs bottled ("purified"), distilled, maybe talk about artesian well water? because I know how additives can affect fermentation and taste, just wanted to know your thoughts.
You'd be surprised how well capsaicin can stick around despite your best intentions. The City Steading folks made a Capsicumel, then washed the container really well and left the container unused and dry for 2 weeks. Then they made a completely different fermentation with it... and they could taste the capsaicin burn in the new ferment. While they had cleaned the container with standard soap, water, and sanitizer, they had failed to remove all the capsaicin. My chemist partner says capsaicin is hydrophobic and fat-soluble. Apparently, they should have used either full-fat milk (casein in milk neutralizes capsaicin) or oil (dissolves capsaicin) to clean the containers.
This seems like a very difficult thing to prove. Might be a thing for the science labs to figure out. But it is very interesting, I think it helps bring subtle effects to a mead that is very light in flavor. Every little thing can make a homebrew unique.
I think it would put the old flavor if you don't wash it relly good it might pass the flavor. But if you was it very good then I dont see it passing any taste to the new.
Well i was thinking about saying how i really like these myth buster and test videos but thought nar why bother till i got to the end of the vid anyway you usually leave nice comments back so here you go :)
Did you taste the washed yeast liquid you poured in there? Seems like that would be the simplest way to see if you actually washed all the spicy taste off of them.
Ever since learning from you and DtM about washing yeast, I have wondered how those repurposed yeast colonies would affect subsequent batches. I would be interested to see a side-by-side comparison of two or three traditionals: one made from fresh yeast, one made from 2nd generation washed yeast, and perhaps a third made from some later generation of the same colony. How would a colony transform and adapt through multiple batches of the same recipe (perhaps something fruit-heavy), and what effect would that have on a traditional?
Not really related to the topic of this video, but I've always wondered if you'd ever do a video on high gravity / sack strength meads and challenges like pushing EC1118 up to its limit of 18%. I hear a lot about getting it there and a bit beyond, even to 20%, but I've only ever gotten to 17.8% personally.
Interesting experiment. I believe your yeast washing technique is incorrect where you are collecting the bottom layer which contains a lot of trub and dead yeast which settles first. The best way to wash yeast is to add your water then wait a little for the trub to settle then pour of the water with the good yeast still in suspension leaving the trub behind and keep the water with the good yeast. Repeat this processs a couple of times then let it settle completely leaving you with clean yeast. I’m not saying the yeast doesn’t retain flavours but I think your yeast washing is inadequate for the experiment. Anyways thank for all the great content and as a home beer brewer I have learnt a lot about making successful mead from your videos so cheers
I can see why you think that! It definitely looks like it wasn’t washed well, in reality I had just finished washing it for the 3rd time and it hadn’t had time to resettle.
So I've been thinking about reusing yeast, and I found this very useful. My question is is it possible to reuse the yeast without cleaning the yeast if it is going into a must that is exactly the same as the previous batch?
@@ManMadeMead thank you very much. My last question, is would ypu go by the same rule of thumb of no more reusing than 10 times, or discarding after the 4th generation?
Yeast don’t die off unless you halt them with a stabilizer or by pasteurizing them. So when you reuse yeast you’re just giving them more work to do - they are already active at that point!
Ha hope u are having a good day Question for u ,I made some wine/mead using packets of kool aid 1- 3 gal of cherry 1 -3 gals of lemon aid I used 1118 yeast with the nurinets and energizer as well, now it has been 3 days and it has not started fermention, it is 70 in the house this is what I did I put more yeast this time 1116 do u think there was something wrong with the 1118 yeast all the other mead that I have started is doing good so what do u think and what would u had done, if this does not work I will dump it and start over thanks and have a great day
I think the kool aid might have some preservative in it which wouldn't allow for fermentation to occur. I would suggest using a juice (without potassium sorbate) as a base! I don't know exactly what is in kool aid but I would imagine it has some preservatives!
But the heat comes from capsaicin, not the yeast. Yeast don't produce "Heat" like that. If you were going to test this properly, you'd need to be testing a property of the yeast itself. suggested test protocol: batch 1: a flavored mead with a yeast that will accentuate a flavor of that mead, like an apple mead with a yeast with apple flavors. batch 2: neutral traditional mead with a neutral yeast. batch 3: neutral traditional mead with the washed yeast from batch 1. again, test them with blind testers and ask them to say whats the same between the samples, and what's different. If they can pick up apple in batch 3 and not batch 2, then you have a positive result.
You may say it wasn't useful, but the information was useful in a different way. If capsaicin didn't taint the second brew appreciably, I think this demonstrates that you can use washed yeast in a brew with a completely different profile without worry about mixing flavors.
Its great that you ran and published the experiment even though the results were about how something didn't have much of an effect. Its still very useful info that can guide a lot of people towards more promising experimentation.
Bad results are still results!
Hi, i found out about your channel a couple of weeks ago. I never brew any thing in my life. But i do bake bread, pizza using sourdough starter. This couple of weeks watching you making mead, made me wounder if it was possible to use brewing yeast several times, as we do with sourdough starter. What a lovely coincidence you just addressed this issue in this video.
I’m glad I could give you some results!
Interesting finding! Not at all surprised that the yeast carried capsaicin from one mead to the next. Great video thank you
Bro I love this video, never knew I could re-use yeast ,but I'm going to try it now !!!
Normally post washing, you would put the yeast in the fridge for it to solidify on the bottom and pour off all that liquid. All of that liquid even though it was watered down a couple times... could have residual heat in it. If the yeast itself was 1/4 inch on the bottom when compacted... the extra water does increase the chance of a flavor transfer.
Good call
I don’t believe I had any residuals from the other mead, but you’re right about that possibility!
The way you guys described the aftertaste, it makes me think it would be a great winter drink, maybe even mulled for a nice warmer.
It definitely would. Super warming!
That mead looked very nice!
When you wash yeast, you're basically separating and diluting down the original solution (must/wort) to a nearly inconsequential amount, but I don't think you could say it's ever 100% "clean." With that being said, there are definitely certain flavor compounds that are more highly perceptible than others, so it's probably good to think through what your original brew has and where you want to reuse it. I think the experiment was still a great idea and hopefully it springboards more tests by other people too.
Great video. I might Re-Use unwashed yeast to give some subtle flavors.
Man, I love this kind of videos, very interesting for a home brewer
Thank you!
Classique is one of my favorite yeasts especially for cider. I feel like of the many yeasts I've tried this one lets the original flavors shine threw the most. So a excellent choice for this experiment.
I was very pleased with it for sure!
I once made an IPA with an expensive yeast and thought of reusing it. I went as far as collecting it in a mason jar and keeping it on the fridge for about a month, but I ended throwing it away. Wish I knew about yeast washing back then.
Thanks for the videos. Because of your channel, I have two 1-gal meads fermenting right now and im really excited to transfer them to secondary and eventually bottle them.
Hey that’s awesome! I’m happy I could help!
Very well done sir. Like how you went about this
Thank you!
Great vid had issues with a stuck fermentation and the your other vids helped me get it started again
I’m happy to help!
Great video. When I reuse the yeast I use it in the same recipe. Yeast right out of the box do not have a specific flavor profile, they have a general ester profile and some are better for one style or flavor than another. They do become acclimated to a certain style and are great for reproducing the same flavor. I have two yeats that I reuse, my mixed berry mead yeast and floral mead yeast. While it is possible for them to impart the flavor from one to another, as you have found, it is very subtle. Reusing it for the same recipe, at least to me (might just be in my head though), can get the flavors to pop sooner and give it more complexity.
Groenfell reuse their yeast (D47 ? I think so) it’s also really common in big breweries
So interesting! I'd never thought of yeast retaining flavor like that before... it makes sense though!
Making a traditional orange blossom right now!
My understanding is the middle layer is the active yeast. The bottom layer is some active yeast, dead yeast/hulls, and must sediment. That being said; my experience is that you still want to reuse yeast in moderately similar brews.
Yes that was interesting. But now I’m interested in you doing another wash and do a third mead to see if you get similar results.
Interesting experiment!👍
I've got a traditional that I'm trying reused yeast in for the first time It's taking forever ever to ferment but it's pretty exciting
I think this is a very useful video! It helps help set boundaries in when there can be adverse (or beneficial) effects in recycling yeast depending on the batch source. What I’m curious about though is how far you can go with recycling yeast. How many times can you use the same yeast without it becoming inactive/contaminated and what is the best method to extend longevity? That’d be an amazing video imo
I think you can reuse yeast as many times as you want!
I'm super excited about this video! I've been reusing yeast recently.... I did not know about washing..... Soo curious about how this turns out.... (Did I mess up not washing?)
Love your videos MMM! I have learned so much from your videos!
Thank you so much for watching my videos!
@@ManMadeMead you are quite welcome! I love your content and look forward to your next video! Thank you!
A centrifuge would probably help here, but I do believe that a small residual taste can be imparted. Thanks for the video and the continued myth buster series!
A centrifuge would spin wayyy too hard, wouldn't it damage the cell walls?
I tried using some goop from some washed Oslo kveik yeast in a small traditional, and what it *did* do was it changed the color a good bit. I don't really think it affected the flavor though, but also I think that what I actually added to the must contained essentially no yeast (when I washed the yeast, it split into two sections of solids, some that sank to the bottom and other that floated to the top, I tried using the one at the top but I think the yeast is all at the bottom)
Great video, thanks
From my experience if you are going to reuse yeast you should go from less flavor to more flavor, as in if you make a traditional mead you can reuse the yeast to make a melomel, but if you make a strong fruited melomel you shouldn't try to make a traditional with the washed yeast
Awesome video, very interesting! I have a possible topic you could do a video on. So I know it's not too complex but could you talk about water sources you use for mead? Like, tap water vs bottled ("purified"), distilled, maybe talk about artesian well water? because I know how additives can affect fermentation and taste, just wanted to know your thoughts.
That would be a fun test!
You'd be surprised how well capsaicin can stick around despite your best intentions. The City Steading folks made a Capsicumel, then washed the container really well and left the container unused and dry for 2 weeks. Then they made a completely different fermentation with it... and they could taste the capsaicin burn in the new ferment. While they had cleaned the container with standard soap, water, and sanitizer, they had failed to remove all the capsaicin. My chemist partner says capsaicin is hydrophobic and fat-soluble. Apparently, they should have used either full-fat milk (casein in milk neutralizes capsaicin) or oil (dissolves capsaicin) to clean the containers.
Alcohol?
@@3000gtwelder Yeah, a high-proof potable alcohol like a cheap vodka would work.
This seems like a very difficult thing to prove. Might be a thing for the science labs to figure out. But it is very interesting, I think it helps bring subtle effects to a mead that is very light in flavor. Every little thing can make a homebrew unique.
Great video,
Heat comes from capsaicin. The only heat should be whatever capsaicin stays in solution from thr washing proces.
I think it would put the old flavor if you don't wash it relly good it might pass the flavor. But if you was it very good then I dont see it passing any taste to the new.
Well i was thinking about saying how i really like these myth buster and test videos but thought nar why bother till i got to the end of the vid anyway you usually leave nice comments back so here you go :)
Thanks for taking the time to watch it!! These videos are fun for me!
Good video
Did you taste the washed yeast liquid you poured in there? Seems like that would be the simplest way to see if you actually washed all the spicy taste off of them.
I didn’t, but I did wash it 3 times!
Ever since learning from you and DtM about washing yeast, I have wondered how those repurposed yeast colonies would affect subsequent batches. I would be interested to see a side-by-side comparison of two or three traditionals: one made from fresh yeast, one made from 2nd generation washed yeast, and perhaps a third made from some later generation of the same colony. How would a colony transform and adapt through multiple batches of the same recipe (perhaps something fruit-heavy), and what effect would that have on a traditional?
I can tell you that DtM and I are working on a similar video to what you're saying!
@@ManMadeMead ...and where is this video? ☺️
Not really related to the topic of this video, but I've always wondered if you'd ever do a video on high gravity / sack strength meads and challenges like pushing EC1118 up to its limit of 18%. I hear a lot about getting it there and a bit beyond, even to 20%, but I've only ever gotten to 17.8% personally.
I’ll have to test that in the future! That sounds fun!
I had no clue that yeast could be reused
Can you make a yeast washing video with Reid and Chris. They're so fun.
It sounds like we need the Reid show to be a thing!
Since it is fall can a mead be made out of pumpkin or possibly sweet potato?
I’ve heard about sweet potato meads and I’ve done a pumpkin mead before. I need to try the pumpkin again using real pumpkins!
Soooo oils from hot peppers might not be able to wash off?
Sooooo, when I make a spicy 🔥 Mead, don't reuse that one?
I wouldn’t say it’s bad to reuse hot honey yeast!
Interesting 🤔
Interesting experiment. I believe your yeast washing technique is incorrect where you are collecting the bottom layer which contains a lot of trub and dead yeast which settles first. The best way to wash yeast is to add your water then wait a little for the trub to settle then pour of the water with the good yeast still in suspension leaving the trub behind and keep the water with the good yeast. Repeat this processs a couple of times then let it settle completely leaving you with clean yeast. I’m not saying the yeast doesn’t retain flavours but I think your yeast washing is inadequate for the experiment. Anyways thank for all the great content and as a home beer brewer I have learnt a lot about making successful mead from your videos so cheers
I can see why you think that! It definitely looks like it wasn’t washed well, in reality I had just finished washing it for the 3rd time and it hadn’t had time to resettle.
So I've been thinking about reusing yeast, and I found this very useful. My question is is it possible to reuse the yeast without cleaning the yeast if it is going into a must that is exactly the same as the previous batch?
You can definitely just throw new honey onto old yeast. You don't have to wash them before using them again!
@@ManMadeMead thank you very much. My last question, is would ypu go by the same rule of thumb of no more reusing than 10 times, or discarding after the 4th generation?
so question, im little confused on re using yeast wouldnt it be done? or does it turn into a starter?
Yeast don’t die off unless you halt them with a stabilizer or by pasteurizing them. So when you reuse yeast you’re just giving them more work to do - they are already active at that point!
I'm planning to brew a traditional and I am aiming for 25% abv any advice?
Get a high gravity ale yeast and step feed it up until 25%
Ha hope u are having a good day Question for u ,I made some wine/mead using packets of kool aid 1- 3 gal of cherry 1 -3 gals of lemon aid I used 1118 yeast with the nurinets and energizer as well, now it has been 3 days and it has not started fermention, it is 70 in the house this is what I did I put more yeast this time 1116 do u think there was something wrong with the 1118 yeast all the other mead that I have started is doing good so what do u think and what would u had done, if this does not work I will dump it and start over thanks and have a great day
I think the kool aid might have some preservative in it which wouldn't allow for fermentation to occur. I would suggest using a juice (without potassium sorbate) as a base! I don't know exactly what is in kool aid but I would imagine it has some preservatives!
@@ManMadeMead Thank you
But the heat comes from capsaicin, not the yeast. Yeast don't produce "Heat" like that. If you were going to test this properly, you'd need to be testing a property of the yeast itself.
suggested test protocol:
batch 1: a flavored mead with a yeast that will accentuate a flavor of that mead, like an apple mead with a yeast with apple flavors.
batch 2: neutral traditional mead with a neutral yeast.
batch 3: neutral traditional mead with the washed yeast from batch 1.
again, test them with blind testers and ask them to say whats the same between the samples, and what's different. If they can pick up apple in batch 3 and not batch 2, then you have a positive result.
Why do they suggest you use reused yest to make Skeeter Pee?
I'm honestly not sure!
Just out of curiosity since I know now you are a music teacher, did you record your own intro and outro songs?
Yes I did! And the little music interludes as well.
@@ManMadeMead I play the guitar. did you do the lead guitar part in the intro?
You should have brewed two batches from the same must, one from the washed yeast, and one from a fresh batch of the same yeast.
That would have been good!
Cool
Man discovers Ueast that makes capsaicin.
like the vid !
hey
Hi!
Subscribe love your channel 🍷👍🏽