Negative Comments on my Color Comparison Video
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- Опубліковано 7 бер 2019
- Watch the original comparison: • Comparing Colors BMPCC...
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WOW! Dave Dugdale: "Usually what happens when I get comments like this, it's usually because I didn't explain myself well enough, or I didn't do it with enough passion or authority for them to understand where I was coming from and the reason why I was doing it that way." THAT THERE is good learning for everyone on what attitude to take when receiving a lot of negative comments! I need to print this out and hang it on my wall. :)
Thanks Mr. Basic, much appreciated.
It's Mr. Filmmaker but Basic to his friends.
I was surprised about the backlash. The intent was very clear.
Sure you should always take a youtube video with a grain of salt and test yourself but seeing how manufactures interpenetrate how a camera within rec709 should look like is interesting.
You did the right thing.
Well done! The only problem is that the trolls from the comparison video won't watch this video...
Thanks, much appreciated.
A great response! I thoroughly enjoyed both videos
Awesome! Thank you!
Thanks for your videos Dave, always very interesting and helpful. I'm still using a Canon 7D!!! Hope to get a BM Pocket 4K one day. In the meantime enjoying using Resolve having switched from Adobe.
Doug!!
@@buildingsheriff Thanks!!!
Hey Dave, thanks for all your tireless tests, I understand where you're coming from.
My only thoughts would be if you used Resolves Color Space Transform too to convert them to a separate Log or Linear profile and color space? E.g Put them both into Arri LogC and apply the LogC to 709 to both?
Interesting idea, perhaps I will test that today.
You're such a 'good egg' Dave. Been following you for many years now. It was indeed very clear that you had elected to use the 'baked in' colour profile (video mode) approach. Keep on being the wonderful you Dave :)
Thanks!
This is not a negative comment by any means but how exactly did you shoot this shot? I use SLOG2 exclusively and haven't run into much trouble. Now I know the colors don't necessarily match but there's a known issue when shooting SLOG2 internally that it limits it to 16-235 and even when you expand it to 0-255 in post, the color information is warped. The workaround I started to use is beginning recording while in something like PP6 then switching over to SLOG2 during recording and having my exposure setup correctly beforehand. I've noticed the colors and everything turn out great on my A73s. I'd be interested in getting my hands on this SLOG2 clip, I have a set of about 5 versions of SLOG2 to 709 luts that range from dark to light that I feel would convert this fine, but there's no way to fix the colors assuming they were recorded internally. Interesting though. I've got to post my SLOG2 video soon.
BTW this is where the guy talks about the color range issue with internal recording. ua-cam.com/video/69PvnuRNR00/v-deo.html
I was surprised that you spend your time respond to this comment.
keep doing great job dave
thank you
Got to say that a couple of those "Hey, that doesn't look right", looked better to my eyes. The first example - usually people drop the lut on the second node so that they can to go to the first node and set the exposure. Some even apply a Lut to drop down exact amount of stops to compensate by going to LutCalc and making one.
Well, you just made some conversion and applied some luts, and after that it looks like Sony log totally useless and failed... I mean, it's looks like you are saying that slog is shit. Is it really so? Why don't you try to work it manually and create you own presets and luts? So can we have all details information from Sony log in rec709? Or it's just lost, and can't be converted?
WOW! Great video to demonstrate this. Wasn't it you that posted a video a year back about why it's not necessary to shoot in 10 Bit formats as opposed to 8 Bit formats? And, if remember you went on to smash the idea of needing a higher bit rate for video editing as well? Remind me if you can Doug, thank you.
Thanks, it might have been me I have done a couple of videos on that topic.
Dave Dugdale Gotcha. Makes sense.
i want a blackmagic so bad
If dave does something to it then dave is part of the equation...Dave gets it.
Thanks
Bam, you tell em Dave!
Diplomacy is always commendable. But let’s not forget this quote (possibly wrongly interpreted, but hey - whatever): “Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed.” We can spend an eternity debating the merits or flaws of a test - but the simply arguing semantics doesn’t detract from the truth sometimes, no matter what. I think Dave’s contrarian video splendidly illustrates that shades of grey and nuances are a thing (and what happens when you ruffle the feathers of all these fangurls).
Last time i watched Gerald Undone in his vid "Working with HLG / Sony Color Modes / Matching Picture Profiles", probably the best video on that topic, check it out Dave. Oh and ignore fanbois.
No its not.The best subject on the topic is to read how to properly expose log footage from the actual manufacturers. Then once you add the proper manufactures lut you should have a good starting point to color correct then color grade . Learn the rules then break them.
You're lucky if there's a thread to your negative comments. Mine are 50/50 "you talk too much" and "you didn't give nearly enough detail". FWIW I found both this and the original vid to be good info. Thanks!
Chose wisely your words then lol
Your car analogy is partly correct. But the Black Magic is more like a formula 1 race car, compared to the Sony's Honda Odyssey. Both are automobiles, but designed to do very different jobs. The BM is stripped down with very few automatic functions. It requires advanced knowledge of photography and exposure. Video mode is an afterthought. You really aren't going to get the best out of the camera unless you are shooting in a 10 bit format (preferably raw). The Sony is designed to hold your hand and make getting acceptable looking images as easy as possible. The camera does the heavy lifting. Both cameras perform their intended fictions extremely well, but there is no way to compare them on a level playing field.
I think your comparison is fair, but in the case of Sony it has so many different color profiles, so it's hard to determine which one is supposed to be a base profile whereas BM has only film and video curve.
Also, shooting with S-Gamut significantly affects color reproduction, and BM film curve differs mostly in luminance and saturation.
Most fanboys are just looking for validation of their purchase. I don’t always agree with your comparison videos but at the same time it’s your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion and it’s ok. I appreciate the transparency
guys can you help me i don t know what i choose if i buy a7rii or a6500 for video
Negitive?
Sorry, I fixed that right after I uploaded it.
nice work
You should do an Arri Alexa (or RED Epic) vs A7R3 comparison with your color matching skills. I say THAT will generate a lot of hate! :D
I have done a Epic vs Sony vs Canon comparison, and yes I did get some negative comments.
Dave are you still using Premiere these days?
I moved to Resolve a few years back.
@@DaveDugdaleColorado I am still in the Adobe infrastructure and it is not stable at all! And it is expensive with this subscription. What do you use as a photoshop and after effects replacement?
I am waiting for my 1 year Lightroom/PS subscription to expire this summer and move over to On1.
Looks like a great deal thanks for sharing!
Turn comments OFF.
One interesting thing about the pocket 4k is when shot in BRAW or CDNG you can change the colorspace in the raw tab of resolve. Blackmagic color space is typically more red biased, but looks very pleasing on skintones. If you go into davinci and change the color space to Rec.709 (effectively bypassing blackmagic's color science) you'll notice the colors are very close to that of a sony, very accurate, but in my opinion less filmic. There's no reason to not shoot in raw on this cam especially with BRaw. If you'd like to revisit any of this I'd be willing to dropbox you some footage
Ha ha ha, come one Dave Dugdale is not a colorist. Just keep doing your thing, you are always going to hear the negative comments. Keep up the good work.
This just shows how bad Slog is, it's very hard to make anything out of it, while Clog or Blackmagic log can be made to look great in three clicks.
I don't use slog that much, but when I do I grade it by hand because like you saw I can't find a LUT that works as well as BM's lut's work.
@@DaveDugdaleColorado I've got a few I'd be willing to send you, I don't remember where I got them but I have about 5 different ones all with varying differences.
I haven't shot anything on the consumer camera versions of SLOG but on the F55 slog is one of the better and easier log formats to work with.
You simply have to know how to deal with it just like handling any other camera.
How few of a clicks can make sometime look great is meaningless. If you aren't going to bother to put the work into your coloring just shoot rec709 with turned down contrast like everyone used to do with canon cameras.
Lol, bmck4k is trash for paupers, like honda civic 82y xD
Totally aggree but wouldve been cool to comparw log to log transformed by aces. The whole point of aces is to match cameras!
In the thumbnail it says "Negivite" Comments.
That's odd I fixed that like a minute after I uploaded it, it might be a caching issue.
@@DaveDugdaleColorado The misspelling shows only in Google Chrome and the UA-cam app. It's fine in Safari.
In order to actually get the full dynamic range and number of stops BM says the camera can deliver you really do need to shoot in a log format. Similar of course to most larger cinema cameras .. ie C300 M2 .. SONY F55 etc.
But for quick and dirty I guess you can forgo the log settings. Hard for me to really keep track of the SONY A7 series but from what I recall these are all 8 bit 4 2 0 pseudo pro video cameras limited to 30 mins or less . Cannot recall the bit depth on BM for 4K but guessing it is at least 10 bit 422. So guess I am not surprised you got some flack. Oddly enough... on the single frame of scarlet sky I think the BM is a bit more saturated which is something I would say the SONy is more known for.
My two cents.. would not buy either camera at this point. BM pocket is still new so I'd give some time to settle in...more revisions etc in spite of the new BM Raw addition.... Sony has never appealed to me especially due to 8 bit and 30 min limitations... never mind overheat and battery life .
I am guessing Dave is still over the moon for the BM camera though given the performance and price point. And obviously Dave is a pretty even keel and easy going guy so he can handle the abusiveness on YT. Good on him.
Has Dave ever done a GH5s review? The new Panasonic ones seem promising but are more coinage.
Haters gonna hate. Blackmagic has some of the most ridiculous die hard fans out there. not all BM users, just some.
Love you Dave! :D