The Definitive Guide To Shimano's New 2023 EP6 Drive System | EMBN's First Look
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- The new EP6 gives you EP8 levels of performance at an accessible price and weighs just 3kg, only 300g more than EP8. The new Shimano EP600 (EP6) motor is compatible with second-generation batteries and the new Shimano XT Hyperglide+ and LinkGlide Di2 electronic drivetrains which feature AUTO SHIFT & FREE SHIFT technology. As well as the new CUES Di2 drivetrain groupset.
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Feels like I am watching a 10min advert!
Mostly what this channel is nowadays
you are
Well, it literally says so in the thumbnail already.
yea cant anger those sponsors
Nothing bad to say? Then it’s an add all right.
I'm just here for all the negative comments, wasn't disappointed.
Thank you Steve the beautful Basque Country, please thank your cameraman and editor showing me a small glimpse where my grandparents were born. I often wondered why as a rider I loved hills and the ocean. Lucky me also had the right combination of power and strength. At 6' 3" and weighing in at 120 kilo's they called me the bus when I raced in cycling still at 105 kilo's race weight ? I have certainly experienced component and frame design failure. Happy to do a long term demo on a Pivot Shuttle sl in Large or an Orbea rise in xxl. Raced Motocross then Duathlon and Triathlon in Ironman and then road racing my last stop etmb I'm over 63 now but my brain never past 25. Cheers.
I think Shimano should be concentrating on reliability, durability and the ability for there motors to be serviced, personally I will never touch another Shimano powered bike again until these issues are sorted.
Is ep8 still not serviceable??? E7000 is a disposable piece of gear - this should be forbidden by LAW
Well said. Other motor manufacturers too
Nice! Free shift sounds like a great feature... 👍
So don't forget to try and get the front wheel in the air as much as possible so we can get good slomo action shots.
Random video request: I would like to see a video about comparing motors (brand/models) only in terms of reliability (weakest points, common problems, avg lifetime) which ones since e-bikes started have proven to be most durable. I imagine not that simple but perhaps gathering different statistical data, surveys, and interviews.
20,000 miles is the average life of an EMTB motor, so it is tough to test real long term durability.
@@bradsanders6954 where did you get this information? is this bench-tested or real-life application testing?
Totally, it's a very important question that needs covering Fran
Thank you for the suggestion!
0:40 Literally all you need to know, guys.
If you want more information, watch an EP8 review, as it's been around longer and has proper reviews.
Steve, I am happy to see you now have a Rise. I love mine. I have the first gen Rise with the EP8. I am curious if the systems are interchangeable? I am also looking forward to hearing more about the Autoshift.
Awesome bike right Pat. And so capable
Will the new motor fit into the 2022 frame . and why didn't orbea angle the motor so can get battery out .
Hi My ep6 engine on an ORBEA RISE from 2023 makes a lot of noise. Is this normal ? Have you notice in your test the noise of this motor ? Thank you
I tried to connect a Shimano STEPS SC-EN600 Display on my ep8, but does not work. Just wanted to use a better battery display
this week, shimano in Brazil launch EP6 with 45km/h unlocked!
But is the EP6 more reliable then the EP8? Sure I'm not the only one waiting for a replacement EP8 motor... ?
In the same boat mate
Yep my Rise is in the shop waiting on a new motor.
@@NJRsounds How long you been waiting? I'm at 2 weeks wait now, but think it will be a good bit longer!
Currently waiting for my 3rd motor in 18 months...
@@-ewen yeah similar amount of time so far. From what I understand there is a shipment due into the Uk at the end of March but who knows if they are already all allocated.
So basicly ep6 is the same as ep8 but heavier and cheaper. A bit confusing way to tell the differencies.
If it's the same motor, but only a few 100g heavier, and less expensive, I'll pick the EP6 every time.
I would not touch a Shimano powered bike given their record of unreliability, lack of factory support & now the bike killing Error 299. Not a chance.
I like where the technology is going. Smaller motor, lighter weight, good Nm 👍 I'm looking to purchase an ebike soon. So far, I like the TQ motors on the Fuel EXe
I don't know how you ride, but I would check out a Rail and Fuel EXe, and compare the two, before deciding. There's a big difference.
I love the idea of the EXe. But thanks to local dealer i will not even consider it… Horrendous customer support and mechanics skillset - mediocre is a nice way of putting it… 🤨
@Jevgeni Ardassov totally. Among all the Trek dealers by my home, there's only 1 I trust. It's a small family-owned shop, and they still do my maintenance despite not having a Trek. If i got the Fuel EXe, it'll only be through them
TQ motor are awesome 💪
10min Video about EP6 and EP8 but no mentioning about the rattle of the EP8 ...
There's no rattle
Just got my new husqvarna mc 4 with the new display where the hack do i turn on blotooth on bike?
We need a video on the differences between the EP8 vs EP801, how they can improve the eMTBs they are already on.
Right! Is it true that the new EP801 regardless the identical Nm numbers is it more powerful and quieter?
@@oettam20 Yes, the EP801 has a peak power of 600W, the EP800 500W.
@@Echoes- I’m wondering are they going to make EP8s 600 watts of peak power because everyone keeps telling me the main difference is the EP801 is mainly for the DI2
And if 801 stopped rattling.
My ep8 was great for 200 km think shimano should recall the ep8 maybe a uk thing I don’t know but mine was 5 stready rides an non wet 🤔
When are you going to try the new EP8 motor?
and is the motor rattle still there?
I notice that more Ebike companies are going to smaller compact motor controls that are a bit more out of harm's way. It's about time! Having the option of no controller on bars is even better!
Get a Specialized, absolutely tiny controller from day one, no displays, there is an app and BT connectivity but it is not mandatory. 👍
@@jevgeniardassov The Giant reign is very similar with their controls. You can pretty much remove the handlebar bar controller and only real loose walk assist.
Is it UL 2849 rated?
so, you do steep technical climb, and in a middle, system decides to mess with your gears... ?
No thanks. That's the last thing I need. Shifting in the middle of a tough techy climb.
The real question is.... does the EP6 keep the annoying downhill rattling of the EP8 ??
If all that's changed is the shell materials I fear the worst T_T
Well well well…….The NEW shimano EP6 RS is so much better than sliced bread. What is the point of RS tuning? Why doesn’t Orbea allow the rider to determine functionality? Some BS about marrying lighter bikes to less power.
Steve - you must be tired after all the climbing shots and the wheelie turn Steve specials. Great scenic shots which encourage eMTB riding/ sales surely.
Do they sell parts and can these be repaired yet? Until that happens it's a hard no to any bike with a Shimano motor.
Does any manufacturer sell spare parts for their motors? I know most will sell spare wiring looms, displays, fairing etc. Hardly any of them seem to sell the internals of the motors (main gears, pcbs). Tho I've seen you can buy main gears for Yamaha's older models at least. There's 3rd party repair shops, at least in my country, that will do bearing swaps even on shimano.
The Shimano ep8 has 100% failure rate in my riding group. Everyone I bump into on the trails who has the ep8 and rides in winter has had a motor failure. Combined with a lack of supply of new motors results in 2-4 months down time. I think Shimano should address their reliability issues first
@@jed7939 I`ve seen revision sets for Bosch, which replace the main bearings although this isn`t a simple job apparently. My local bike shop has Bosch motors in stock for around 600 euro. These are all gen 4 and the 2023 bikes are tending to use the later smart motor. I own a Bosch gen 3 with 16,000 kms on it and a gen 4 with 5,000 km, both , dare I say it, problem free up until now. I`m reading bad things about shimano, how can such a massive brand be so unreliable ?
Do any of them? On Bosche you can't even enable the Headlight outputs without a trip to the dealer...
It's all ridiculous what happened to the Right To Repair? how do these companies avoid it....
You can repair your own car or motorbike, but oh no a simple ebike motor had to be locked down
All the features of EP8? Does that include the same unreliability? New motor every 6 months and a 4-6 week wait for a new one? 🤔
Well said, in the same boat as you
Same boat
My bike's motor is a shimano E6180 which outputs 60Nm of torque, but I want more for winter biking.
Should I get EP6 somehow for an additional 25Nm?
Is 25Nm obvious?
25 Nm is a lot. Just hire one for a few hours and then you`ll know.
Yep. 25nm is night and day difference.
Get a bike with the Bosch motor. It is 10x better
EP 8 FOREVER!!!
Most just want ..Silent , 90nm , reliable , how hard is it to understand that and deliver. Quite hard it seems . Just turn your motor down if you want more range , it's not rocket science
I wouldn't say most... I'd say a lot of people will be happy with 60Nm... The TQ is a bit light at 50Nm though...
A 90nm motor can put out 60nm , the weight difference is negligible, it then covers all needs up to 90nm Inc 60nm
@@CarkeekW yes but then you need to have the battery for the 90 to have decent range. I'd happily have a 60 with half the weight battery. We'd have to agree to disagree...
What about rattling noise ?
Yep is it still a rattling pos
Well, yeah. What if I'm not using max power on a EP8? Which I very rarely do. Trail mode can do it all.
It seems like splitting hairs to some degree. 85NM can be used just for laughs at times.
Good point right. Many people dont use full power which is why the Rise is a great bike for a lot of people. That the new motor has a bit more power will not matter to a lot of people
@@stevejones7956 yeah but are you not just paying the same for less? I ride eco 99% of the time but I still need and use turbo for a bit of techy. Why would I opt to not have it? Especially when the ep6 is a heavier motor. Genuine question btw
So the only difference is the casing, magnesium vs alloy? That's what, 5-10 euro less in production cost for shimano? And as a result, you get a bike, that weighs 300g more (on a rise, which selling point is the low weight?) ? That's why they are bringing out a new motor? Has anyone ever asked for this? I'm confused about this new product 🤔
I feel like this is Shimano's way to answer those who ask for more affordable emtbs.
The easiest way to do that was actually not to spend $$$$ to develop a new, weaker, motor (probably with the same production cost as the EP8 anyway).
It was far easier to make an EP8 clone with a DESIGNED FLAW that made it undesireable for serious riders. Competitive/weight nerds will gladly spend extra $$$$ for the 300g lighter version, while casuals like you and me can get the cheaper version. It saves Shimano a ton of trouble to not have two different motors that needs updates and make all connectable equipment working with both.
Now that I think about it, it's actually a godsend for us buyers, as we dont have to compare and decide between two vastly different motors. We just choose between casual and hardcore weight savings, and we're done.
But yes, this is business strategy to make money. If Shimano wanted to, they could sell only the EP8 for the price of the EP6. But then they miss out on free money.
Now if both the EP6 and EP8 end up having roughly the same price, then no the EP6 would have absolutely no reason for existing xD
Steve, while you were at the Orbea factory you should have asked them why riders in the UK are waiting so long for a replacement motor. Why not do a video that reflects company warranty and how they implement it, or the lack of it that Orbea riders are experiencing!!
They only talk about nice fluffy stuff
@@perspectivedetective2703 yeah, free fluffy stuff from manufacturers.
I'll do some research for you Ewen...
@@stevejones7956 Cheers Steve, think warranty is one of the biggest issues when jumping from MTB to EMTB for a potential owner.
in an ideal world, any dealer would have a motor in stock for any issues so turnaround getting the customer back on the trails would be a very quick process. Instead owners are told that motors will be weeks before they are available. Currently I'm waiting for a Shimano EP8RS motor for my Rise and an outstanding 7month Race Face Vault hub replacement. The time taken and frustration on the hub necessitated me spending £450 on a DT Swiss alternative. I think it would be worth you mentioning or doing a special on the channel highlighting how companies deal with warranty.
Cheers
Ewen
@@stevejones7956 So what did you find out?
are the mount points Identical?
Yes, Identical mounting points.
I think you guys need to take some notes from motorbike launches. The journalists still get flown out into the sun but don't feel like they're off a script like this does.
and you can't take the battery out? Not great for many riders without heated garage.
Nice but does it still have the rattle?😊
Nope
@@stevejones7956 😱 Really? If the rattle has finally gone on the descents…amazing job.
too bad, not backwards compatible or interchangeable across all drive unit models and their supporting components. So you could easily upgrade motors, and mix and match your controls or displays based on preference.
Where you paid by Shimano for this advert?
no probably orbea
Try reading the description. Jesus christ.
Hi Paul! This video is a paid promotion in association with Shimano. 👍
Not sure why they wouldn't just let you detune the motor in app to extend battery life if you want to.
Exactly - just set your middle 'trail' position to 60%/60Nm and ride that, with boost available if you ever need it... I think the only Reason Orbea persist with this 'RS tune' is so they can fit a smaller/lighter battery, to keep the overall weight of their bikes down, while still offering a decent range?
Exactly, Giant does on their Trance ADV X E Elite models w an app for the Yamaha they use 👍🚲🏁
hi kivabe Joga chakka Bazar
Oh come on EMBN...NO info on wether the ep6 can be swapped into 2022 frames that have the ep8... pontless content
probably different mounting points since they don't want your old bike to be useful for more than 1-2 years...... so green ! so carbon friendly they tell you on their websites.... in reality they encourage a throw away society
@@anonymousone6075 Ive found out the info from another source and they have changed the power ports on the new motors so they wont fit 2022 frames...absolute joke..and your right so green and not wasteful at all...
I don't get it. The RS motor is just a detuned EP6. Can't be much cheaper, because the hardware is the same. You get more range, but you could do that will most bikes' apps or even microtune. So what's the point? Seems just marketing to me.
All I heard was....its weaker 🤦♂️🤷♂️
why would you want half fat when you can have full fat for the same calories?
all they keep banging on about is lighter motors, lighter motors..... how about more reliable motors.... I don';t care if a motor is 300grams heavier as long as it lasts 2-3x as long
Cool! Soon ebikes will have autopilot like teslas and we won't need to do anything! LOL ;(
@ElectricBikeJournal.. How that works?
The one thing...every motor is restricted to 25 kmph...so it doesn't leave alot to play with
Only in the UK and some parts of Europe
@@anonymousone6075 and here in Australia...with our socialist EU loving government
PROBLEM, top speed I find that my old YT was faster on trails than my e/bike until I derestricted it as I found it holding back. Price is stupid and you bummed around that point. Once the battery is flat are hard work to get back home. Motor life time isn't very good going by my Specialized and the biggest bugbear is range. I have tried low grip tyres pressure's width of tyres different routs as in steep hills. Do not buy a e/bike that has a dealer far away as it will break, and then your f****** I am lucky as my dealer is Berkshire Cycles. All these fancy gears etc is all bollox as price and wear will catch you out unless you are good at setting it up as chains will break, it's like granny state over common sense, like a apple ipod telling you your music is too loud for your hearing unless you go into settings and delete said setting. Specialized dropping prices for the first time as some top tear bikes are £12 grand. Just price the difference between 11 speed and 12 speed free hubs gears derailleur chains. Then there's lightness yet and it doesn't make a difference except in the wallet area. For example the new Fox factory dropper post is rubbish compared to the old version as its shorter lighter {better} my old one never was serviced and worked great but this new one has been serviced twice in one year and it needs to go back again and yes it has been cleaned where the bushes are but sticks all the time. They tried a new bushing at first but no difference second time higher nitrogen pressure still crap. So all these super light weight 12 speed cassette's forget about it. Motor overhang is a pain but at least the test bike seems good as in the UK wet weather over logs rocks etc you need to set sag higher for ground clearance, and cold wet days buttons are far to small but ok for nice sunny test day's. Moan over as could write a book.
Infomercial completely confusing. Given up.
Give me one them little motors to put on my bike
less power? no way. more Power is better. the batts are too heavy. thats the problem!
just an orbea and tight arse purchaser advert
Orbea Creator I would like to get two of them For Free please. For me and my wife.
BOSCH MOTOR RULL!!!SORRY SHIMANO....