The difference in weight bias is probably not enough to meaninfully affect the dynamics of the bike, but those weights might still do an important job: Car manufacturers add weights to lots of things to dampen vibrations. High performance brake pads often have big metal slugs riveted to them to stop squeal. Big cast iron weights are often attached to subframe assemblies, shocks, control arms, driveline components and pickup truck cab mounts to dampen vibrations or shift the resonant frequency out of a specific problematic range. Adding one big slug of weight to the middle of a frame is more than likely to have the same effect. Scientifically testing how much weight a specific frame needs to "feel best" on any given terrain would take endless testing, but I think it's safe to assume that if you zip tie some exercise weights to it and it "feels better", it'll probably be faster. A bike that you feel good on is a bike you can go fast on, even if that feel comes from hard to detect noise, vibration and harshness improvements.
To have a predictable way to absorb vibrations in an empty metal vial you'd have to constrict resonances, filling the tubes with fiberglass, or high density spray foam, even better. Wonder if that was tested before? 😂
@@LaurentiusTriarius Berm Peak did try spray foam: v=6dW5wwARJ8E But weights would be easier to manage in their weight, density, location and importantly, are reversible. Also, when dealing with vibrations, weight is probably more effective than a space-filling-but-mostly-empty material.
@@brian6speed they are often also the difference between a base model on a platform and it's more expensive derivatives sold as more luxurious. More money = more lumps of iron to dampen everything.
I notice this weight more when I go from my XC bike (Anthem X 29) to my eMTB (Trance E+) - so many other factors at play between longer travel, bigger tires, geometry, etc... but the weight does seem to make it feel really planted.
That is a huge weight change! eBikes do tend to feel really planted because of the weight, all of that weight is very low on the bike which also helps lower your centre of gravity 🤘
I have a bottle cage in the downtube. I sometimes use it for water, adding weight to lower frame. Sometimes, I'll ride with the water in my backpack instead. This change of position will not affect climbing nor braking because the weight is still there. On the one hand, the lower center of gravity would make the bike more stable; on the other hand, having it in the backpack will make it part of the weight position that I can control when I move around. Which do you think is best?
I personally prefer to use a bottle cage as the water is more stationary. But it's all down to what you prefer! As water is dynamic it is going to move around wherever you put it. 🌊
Considering only mass of the frame+rider is only half of the story (it would be full story if rider was made out of steel and welded to the frame). Rider and the frame can move independently and there is the other half of the story - interaction between frame and the rider. Heavier frame is less influenced by the suspension. It's good old newton - when suspension pushes the wheel back down (as well as when it's being compressed by the wheel pushing up the spring/piston), it pushes the frame up. Heavier the frame is compared to unsprung mass, more calm this movement will be. Extra weight works somewhat as another layer of suspension between frame and rider. It's like with guns. Heavier gun will have less violent recoil compared to the lighter one in the same caliber.
noob here--- when i take my regular mtb down my local course with some mellow (that is mellow to you gmbn guys) jumps, it feels twitchy, but on my levo i feel super planted and get more confident in the air. (not the takeoff or landing, just in the air) i'm sure there is something there..
There is definitely something in it! As all the weight in an eMTB is relatively low, it lowers your centre of gravity which is what will make you feel more stable ⚖️
I imagine it helps not when the bike is planted and wheels touching the terrain, but more in placing/moving the bike as you're going over modulations and as the bike "hops".
Heavy tires makes the bike more planted. If you have an all mountain type bike and want to ride DH tracks with some speed you'll come a long way with full DH casing tires. Because they are heavier they take up more of the first compression and you can ride them with lower pressure than what you can with lighter casing. But the rolling resistance is brutal. On a world cup level DH competition i'm sure a weighted frame can make a difference, adding some stability on a steep section of a track with a lot of "chatter" for example. But you can't simply say it's "better".
I wonder how much it has to do with the ratio of Rider weight to bike weight. For instance would the idea of just lowering the center of gravity be something that has more of an effect then the wait alone?
Call me crazy and you all can disagree but thinking outside the box. Maybe adding weights to the bike to adjust for riders weight….i imagine everyone starts the season in great shape but as the travel and season progresses the riders strength and weight will change….given that tyre pressures suspension setting are hard to dial in and would take lots of runs to figure out maybe it’s easier to add a few grams to the bike that’s go through all the tweaking ? I would think altitude of some of the locations would play a factor as well ? Just a thought
The pros care about 10ths of a second. So yeah, having the weight could move them up one or two time slots. But it's one of those things. If one pro adds weight and gets an advantage then all pros will add weight to get an advantage. Then all of a sudden adding weight doesn't give you an advantage, you are doing it simply because everyone else is. This is why organizations like the UCI should just say riders are not allowed to add weight and they could even go as far as saying a bike has to be within a specified weight range. This equalizes things more and then it's about the riders and bike/suspension setup more than other factors. But I doubt that will happen because people will complain and say the sport is overregulated.
I have 2 Bikes 1st Cube Stereo Pro 150 C:62 about 14kg "M" Green Version 2021 2cend Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 about 16kg "S" Black´n Green 2021 EDIT: Most important thing here is that there isnt a motor instaled. For real! I build a Braket that replaced the Motor wwith human Powaaaa!!! So its a lighter E-Bike version Powwewred 100% by human =) Both 29" but only bcs i switched parts from the 150 to the 140. So Same Parts Different Frame, havier Frame. And I like the Heavier build more to ride. It feels more suttle and stable to ride than the Lighter bike. maybe bcs i sit higher. So decide for your own =)
Good morning Columbus. Off course it is better to have heavier DH even Enduro bike. When it is too light it is twitchy and bounces around too much.. Heavier machine just plows and stomps everything in it's way.
One thing for sure I can feel a full water bottle on my trailbike, it surely makes a difference engineering wise I'd have the bottle under the downtube near the bottom bracket. Practically I hate drinking mud.
nice - companies spend millions on rnd to make their bikes slightly lighter, customers pay thousands just to save a kilo - and you just strap it back on :P
I've done years to make my bike lighter. You've even shown us how to remove the paint from the frame in order to save some grams. Now you're telling us to make it heavier? What next? Smaller wheels? Less gears? oh wait....
The physics absolutely does not support it. You had a faster run and wasted some of it. It's been proven many times in a purer form of road cycling free rolling down inclines therefor taking all skill out of the equation shows a very slight advantage with weight as gravity overcomes wind resistance but the advantage is easily wiped out by wearing a flappy shirt. As soon as you introduce corners and having to accelerate, you are at a disadvantage. Lighter race cars are always faster.
The difference in weight bias is probably not enough to meaninfully affect the dynamics of the bike, but those weights might still do an important job: Car manufacturers add weights to lots of things to dampen vibrations. High performance brake pads often have big metal slugs riveted to them to stop squeal. Big cast iron weights are often attached to subframe assemblies, shocks, control arms, driveline components and pickup truck cab mounts to dampen vibrations or shift the resonant frequency out of a specific problematic range. Adding one big slug of weight to the middle of a frame is more than likely to have the same effect. Scientifically testing how much weight a specific frame needs to "feel best" on any given terrain would take endless testing, but I think it's safe to assume that if you zip tie some exercise weights to it and it "feels better", it'll probably be faster. A bike that you feel good on is a bike you can go fast on, even if that feel comes from hard to detect noise, vibration and harshness improvements.
To have a predictable way to absorb vibrations in an empty metal vial you'd have to constrict resonances, filling the tubes with fiberglass, or high density spray foam, even better.
Wonder if that was tested before? 😂
@@LaurentiusTriarius Berm Peak did try spray foam: v=6dW5wwARJ8E But weights would be easier to manage in their weight, density, location and importantly, are reversible. Also, when dealing with vibrations, weight is probably more effective than a space-filling-but-mostly-empty material.
all those weight dampners are removed when you turn a street car into a track car. My track car started out at 3300 lbs and now it weighs 2600 lbs.
@@brian6speed they are often also the difference between a base model on a platform and it's more expensive derivatives sold as more luxurious. More money = more lumps of iron to dampen everything.
I ride a 55lb emtb. The extra weight is exponentially giving the rider more control and speed.
Do you have a downhill bike? Would you give adding weights to your bike a try? Let us know in the comments! 👇
I notice this weight more when I go from my XC bike (Anthem X 29) to my eMTB (Trance E+) - so many other factors at play between longer travel, bigger tires, geometry, etc... but the weight does seem to make it feel really planted.
That is a huge weight change! eBikes do tend to feel really planted because of the weight, all of that weight is very low on the bike which also helps lower your centre of gravity 🤘
I have a bottle cage in the downtube. I sometimes use it for water, adding weight to lower frame. Sometimes, I'll ride with the water in my backpack instead. This change of position will not affect climbing nor braking because the weight is still there. On the one hand, the lower center of gravity would make the bike more stable; on the other hand, having it in the backpack will make it part of the weight position that I can control when I move around. Which do you think is best?
I personally prefer to use a bottle cage as the water is more stationary. But it's all down to what you prefer! As water is dynamic it is going to move around wherever you put it. 🌊
I don't know about the weights really doing much but the Don looks awesome shredding those trails.
Considering only mass of the frame+rider is only half of the story (it would be full story if rider was made out of steel and welded to the frame). Rider and the frame can move independently and there is the other half of the story - interaction between frame and the rider. Heavier frame is less influenced by the suspension. It's good old newton - when suspension pushes the wheel back down (as well as when it's being compressed by the wheel pushing up the spring/piston), it pushes the frame up. Heavier the frame is compared to unsprung mass, more calm this movement will be. Extra weight works somewhat as another layer of suspension between frame and rider.
It's like with guns. Heavier gun will have less violent recoil compared to the lighter one in the same caliber.
Absolutely this, especially in sharp hits.
noob here---
when i take my regular mtb down my local course with some mellow (that is mellow to you gmbn guys) jumps, it feels twitchy, but on my levo i feel super planted and get more confident in the air. (not the takeoff or landing, just in the air) i'm sure there is something there..
There is definitely something in it! As all the weight in an eMTB is relatively low, it lowers your centre of gravity which is what will make you feel more stable ⚖️
Sick soundtrack.
I desperately wanna know what the colour profile is for the frame and for the forks as I assume they have a slight difference in person 🙏🏻
I imagine it helps not when the bike is planted and wheels touching the terrain, but more in placing/moving the bike as you're going over modulations and as the bike "hops".
Heavy tires makes the bike more planted. If you have an all mountain type bike and want to ride DH tracks with some speed you'll come a long way with full DH casing tires. Because they are heavier they take up more of the first compression and you can ride them with lower pressure than what you can with lighter casing. But the rolling resistance is brutal. On a world cup level DH competition i'm sure a weighted frame can make a difference, adding some stability on a steep section of a track with a lot of "chatter" for example. But you can't simply say it's "better".
I'd guess that anything you do to lower the centre of gravity, will result in a more planted feeling.. Interesting experiment none the less.
neil. what derailleur are you running on the rear?
Did you miss the giant XO logo on it?
@@HUKIT. i meant exact specs, not sram xo as theres lots of different years with slight differneces
Car wheel balance weights would be good. They come in 60g strips & would just stick on
I wonder how much it has to do with the ratio of Rider weight to bike weight. For instance would the idea of just lowering the center of gravity be something that has more of an effect then the wait alone?
I think bike park wales should be added to uci dh would be great to have another UK stop on the championship
I wonder how many minutes long their longest trail is.
What would interest me, is what would be your standard deviation in your runs?
Since apparently he only did one measurement (run) for each scenario, they could be anything.
Call me crazy and you all can disagree but thinking outside the box. Maybe adding weights to the bike to adjust for riders weight….i imagine everyone starts the season in great shape but as the travel and season progresses the riders strength and weight will change….given that tyre pressures suspension setting are hard to dial in and would take lots of runs to figure out maybe it’s easier to add a few grams to the bike that’s go through all the tweaking ? I would think altitude of some of the locations would play a factor as well ? Just a thought
The pros care about 10ths of a second. So yeah, having the weight could move them up one or two time slots. But it's one of those things. If one pro adds weight and gets an advantage then all pros will add weight to get an advantage. Then all of a sudden adding weight doesn't give you an advantage, you are doing it simply because everyone else is.
This is why organizations like the UCI should just say riders are not allowed to add weight and they could even go as far as saying a bike has to be within a specified weight range. This equalizes things more and then it's about the riders and bike/suspension setup more than other factors.
But I doubt that will happen because people will complain and say the sport is overregulated.
But surely advancing the bikes performance is all part of the sport?
I have 2 Bikes
1st Cube Stereo Pro 150 C:62 about 14kg "M" Green Version 2021
2cend Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 about 16kg "S" Black´n Green 2021 EDIT: Most important thing here is that there isnt a motor instaled. For real! I build a Braket that replaced the Motor wwith human Powaaaa!!! So its a lighter E-Bike version Powwewred 100% by human =)
Both 29" but only bcs i switched parts from the 150 to the 140.
So Same Parts Different Frame, havier Frame.
And I like the Heavier build more to ride. It feels more suttle and stable to ride than the Lighter bike. maybe bcs i sit higher.
So decide for your own =)
Good morning Columbus. Off course it is better to have heavier DH even Enduro bike.
When it is too light it is twitchy and bounces around too much..
Heavier machine just plows and stomps everything in it's way.
Interesting theory... I shall attempt it myself. I'm going out for a curry drink all nighter... let's see if my bike is faster or slower next day ..
Adding weights due to training on ebikes I think
It depends on the track, conditions, and rider weight.
For sure, some downhill riders will adapt their bike for each track/day. Changing little things here and there 🤏
One thing for sure I can feel a full water bottle on my trailbike, it surely makes a difference engineering wise I'd have the bottle under the downtube near the bottom bracket.
Practically I hate drinking mud.
A small price to pay!
For me more weight gives me more confidence.
Every time I get on a bike I add weight to it.
more weight = more speed on any downhill, from street to dh track
Yeah Mush! If ya see him 😉
nice - companies spend millions on rnd to make their bikes slightly lighter, customers pay thousands just to save a kilo - and you just strap it back on :P
Notice where they put it though, weight distribution can be more important than all up weight.
Straight away you could tell it was different because the music changed. 😂
Great! My 47lb+ Kona Stab is a hypersonic downhill projectile. That's why everyone gets out of the way🤣🤘
🚴♂️💨
is this ac/dc?
why not a steel frame, for us
Water bottle in a cage -that’s my add weight but as the water goes down I find the bike more chuckable.
I've done years to make my bike lighter. You've even shown us how to remove the paint from the frame in order to save some grams. Now you're telling us to make it heavier? What next? Smaller wheels? Less gears? oh wait....
They not trying to make bike heavier....its to improve center of gravity
I thought rider weight was unsprung mass.
Now do it on an ebike that weighs about 5kg heavier, or add 5kg of weight to the bike.
This is how much of ripp off the bike industry is:
My mate has a current gen M5 and had his shocks changed. All 4 shocks cost less than 1 fox 38 fork.
How many of those shocks were made though? Mass production is what gives us price miracles, few bike parts reach those levels.
The physics absolutely does not support it. You had a faster run and wasted some of it. It's been proven many times in a purer form of road cycling free rolling down inclines therefor taking all skill out of the equation shows a very slight advantage with weight as gravity overcomes wind resistance but the advantage is easily wiped out by wearing a flappy shirt. As soon as you introduce corners and having to accelerate, you are at a disadvantage. Lighter race cars are always faster.
not enough weight
Nahhh. Were at road bike levels of tom foolery here. And we know jow hard them clowns will arge over a theoretical 1 watt savings in a wind tunnel.
Next video: „Does it make difference if your water bottle is full or empty?“
Sorry I didn’t want to be harsh on this one.
wouldn't be easier just to ride with a filled camelback? 😅
The weight would be slightly higher! Part of the test was to see if it would lower your centre of gravity and change how the bike feels.