Another part of a video series from Wordonfire.org. Bishop Barron will be commenting on subjects from modern day culture. For more visit www.wordonfire.org/
Father Barron synopsis was very good however he missed something very pivotal. He didn't discuss how Larry compromised his ethics by changing Clive's grade. It was at that moment that the situation turned grim. This was different than the story of Job who never gave up faith and was thus rewarded.
I agree with that. I was also wondering, how does the message, "you better find somebody to love" resolve Larry's (and our) questions? How does it relate to the problems he's facing? It's interesting that the bishop here kind of reaffirms the advice of the three rabbis. Aren't we supposed to see their advice as kind of silly and trite? In the context of the Biblical story of Job, the three friends' answers are certainly all supposed to be seen as dismissible.
I may be wrong here, but iirc he _didn't_ change Clive's grade. Or did he? He just erased the F, but idr him actually writing anything in response. It's ambiguous, uncertain. See: Schrodinger. Accept the mystery.
As a (non-observant) Jew who absolutely adores this movie, I found the opportunity to hear the interpretation of a Christian minister very interesting. I always thought of the film's themes and style as being very particularly Jewish, but it's so open to interpretation that nearly anyone who has put real thought into questions of God, faith and order in the universe can offer an interesting and unique perspective on it, and I like Father Barron's.
Great stuff Fr. Barron. Thanks. The story of Job is my story. In fact everyman's. And yes we gotta find somebody to love - and in loving God we find we love all that God loves - all of humanity. - Blessings - Rene
I'm an atheist and yet I like this interpretation. What is extrapolated is sensible and useful. I read some other comments here and there is a lot of irrelevant ideological echo chamber reassurance. Keep up the good work Bishop!
@@chissstardestroyer people can't explain away the creation or lack of creation of the universe, not now and probably not ever. the prime mover arguement eats itself because if everything has to have been caused from something then there can't be prime mover who hasn't been previously moved. and if we can make one exception then why make the exception a creator and not the creation?
But the rabbi doesn't say find somebody to love. He specifically says "When the truth is found to be lies, and all the joy within you dies...then what?" Crucially, the rabbi does not give an answer. The audience provides an answer. Grace Slick provides an answer. The rabbi says "These are the words of the Airplane," then gives back the radio saying "Be a good boy." This is a complex movie. It is not only a retelling of Job, but also an exploration of quantum physics and what it can and can't say about the existence and intention of God in our lives. With so much left to the viewer, it is no wonder you saw your answer, and some others here saw their own answer in the film. I think that is one of the characteristics that make great media great -- it makes you think, and encourages you to draw your own conclusions. I suggest you watch this one again, and soak in some of the nuances. It is a spiritually and intellectually rewarding experience.
This movie hit me in so many ways. No, Rabbi didn't give the answer just another question, but be a good boy. Choose you this day! Its up to each of us to choose the answer we know to be true. Love your perspective.
What an arrogant and patronising thing to say, as if the Bishop did not pick up on the nuances but you in your great wisdom and intelligence did. Then what? is the Rabbi prompting the boy to think so he can understand for himself that love is the answer. The movie is not an exploration of quantum physics per say, but the sciences in general, which includes mathematics, the verification principle,what can be measured and observed and what the sciences can and can't achieve
This is my favorite movie. I found your interpretation of the film extremely poignant. Initially, upon first viewing, I found the film to be an attack on the very existence of God and the belief in any type of order in the universe. Seeing it more than once led me to find that this was a very one-sided analysis. Your insight on the film from a spiritual, religious perspective is just as valid. As a current agnostic I found this to be very interesting. Thank you for this video.
The last scene with the tornado seemed to me to illustrate the "reaping of the whirlwind" , the Uncertainty Principle Larry was talking about vis-a-vis Schroedinger 's cat and the mystery of God's Will. We really don't know what's going to happen to Daniel or Larry, but can only guess at the likelihood of their impending doom being pretty good.
Actually what the old Rabbi says instead of Somebody to Love is, "What then?" That little variation on the lyrics changes the meaning of the song entirely, and that's what makes the use of the song so interesting. I love your film interpretations. I don't think the Coens set out to make a spiritual film the way you saw it but it's still a legit view. Trust the tale and not the teller.
IMO, "When the truth is found to be lies and all the hope (joy) within you dies ... then what? [Ans.] Be a good boy." Thus spake Qoheleth. (Eccl 12:13: "Fear God and keep his commandments.")
I'm aware this video was posted some time ago but I feel compelled non the less to comment on your interpretation, which is fascinating and thought provoking. The key issue that arises in your analysis revolves around that paramount piece of evidence concerning the wise words of the elder rabbi. He indeed does recite the opening lines of Somebody to Love though he does not do so in its entirety. He says: "When the truth is found to be lies, and all the hope within you dies-" then there is a pause, he finishes with: "then what?" Marshak does not directly recite the chorus and instead lets us linger on a question. This is deliberate. Why? I don't know, but it is. It would have been easy to write in that next bit of dialogue where in which the rabbi would have concluded the song, but the Coen's decided against dispelling of there signature ambiguity. Instead it seems that even the rabbi cannot give a sufficient answer. "Accept the mystery" may be the answer, despite it being not much of an answer at all. Does there have to be a reason for anything? Does everything need to be justified? We'd sleep more soundly. Perhaps that's why religion is such an attractive enterprise, all the simple answers spelled out with the turn of a page.
I own the movie and watched it twice, and I always enjoyed it as a purely nihilistic work, and I never noticed the significance of the song. Guess I’ll have to watch it again
Well love, for both Christians and Jews, hasn't a thing to do with sentimentality or "everything working out just fine." The God who speaks in this movie is the God disclosed in the book of Job, who is indeed a God of love. But authentic love is, as Dostoevsky put it, "a harsh and dreadful thing."
@wordonfirevideo I'm sorry your Jewish friends hate this movie. I'm Jewish and this is one of my favorite movies of all time. The Coen brothers "laugh at" everyone (why should Jews be an exception?). It is a modern day retelling of the book of Job. It's an absolutely beautiful film. A masterpiece - truly.
Larry doesn't talk to the final rabbi. The final rabbi only speaks to Danny saying "be a good boy." Danny is Not a good boy (listens to radio Again in class), and Larry is also not a good boy (changes Clive's grade). As such, they are somehow "punished," or, see the power of God firsthand. I don't think this film has to do with love as it's described here. I think the message is closer to "life is miserable and a mystery; you still have to be a good boy." Very similar message as Job.
@alexington459 I would tell your Jewish friends to re-read the 38th chapter of the book of Job. It is none other than the voice of God that comes "from the whirlwind." Larry hasn't been abandoned by God; he's being addressed by God.
I finally got around to watching this film - I loved it. Thank you for your commentary, Bishop. I'm wondering what your thoughts are about the opening scene of the film - with the 19th century married couple and the "dybbuk"? I found it hilariously intriguing but puzzling. Thank you, Bishop!
Very good discussion on this awesome movie. Left out some important themes, however, I do agree with the interpretation of the lyrics to the Jefferson Airplane song which are repeated throughout the movie.
The movie has an apocalyptic blackness about it.Watching these characters and their fragmented lives,rarely connecting in any meaningful way,the brothers Coen don't make us feel that we are pieces of a larger jigsaw puzzle.Remember there are only aspects of the story of Job,the writers have given us their own feelings,ideas and conclusions. One of the best lines in the film is when the Rabbi says,"We can't know everything",to which Larry replies,"Sounds like you don't know anything".
Right. The Coen brothers are saying: the search for answers is futile, and even if you would try, you can't navigate your destiny in any meaningful way. The book of Job on the other hand is saying: The world on the one hand is not a simplistic do this and you'll get that, but on the other hand, don't give up.
Why didn't you talk about the ending in which Lawrence accepts the bribe and then, gets a call from his doctor asking him to come to his office as if maybe Lawrence has a terminal illness? Is this fair? Did Lawrence Gobnick deserve this?
As I final comment, I can understand why Father Barron likes Fargo. Despite the morally bankrupt characters and the violence (disposing of bodies in the chipper), ultimately the film has a very moral message, voiced by the female police chief towards the end of the film, when she tells the arrested man how shocked she is by his actions, all for the sake of a little money. And Margie herself embodies steadfast dedication to her job, her principles, and her less than stellar husband.
Absolutely everything in the film is ambiguous: the causal connections, the outcomes, the explanations. Everything. The problem of evil is not a problem if it has a nice, pat, easy solution. Leave the easy solutions to Job's friends.
Well, I think to some extent they want us to scratch our heads about it. I think the scene is important precisely because we're supposed to be confused and unsure. (I also think those folks might have been Larry's ancestors.) The scene kind of establishes what you'll think for the rest of the movie: Is the man a dybbuk, or a mortal? Is the tornado at the end just weather? I think the opening scene is about mystery and unknowability, this theme continued w/ ref to Schrodinger.
from imdb trivia page: Another Biblical allusion is that Larry sees his neighbor's beautiful naked wife sunbathing over the fence, like King David saw Bathsheba. (btw is it a coincidence that she has the word "Bath" in her name?) Also, on the phone w/ record company he keeps saying he doesn't want Abraxas by Santana. He doesn't want Abraxas, didn't order Abraxas, doesn't like "Abraxas," which is a gnostic term for god and the etymological root of "Abra Cadabra;" he's rejecting god and magic.
I always thought the ending concluded on the note saying Larry needs to learn to stand up for himself and not let others step on him and that this cycle of misfortune will continue on until he learns to do that.
I think the Cohens give the answer to that question in the beginning of the movie where it states "be naive with your God" hat means take some things as they are and don't seek to much for a meaning because you don't see the whole picture. It is also interesting that through the course of the movie as long as he does morally good things nothing bad happens to him, his wife lover dies in a car crash exactlly the same time he has a car accident too but he doesn't get even scratched. But as soon as he accepts bribe from a student his luck turns on him...
Thanks so much, and now I would be happy to answer your question. You have to remember that it's not up to us as to who will go to Heaven or not. While I myself consider myself a Christian who believes in Christ, that alone will not guarantee me into the Kingdom of Heaven. When someone says, "Oh that person's going to Heaven; oh he's going to Hell," and so on and so on, let me ask: How do you know that? It's not up to us to decide who goes to the kingdom of heaven.
Very insightful thoughts, Father Barron, as always. I thought the movie was brilliant (one of the Coen's best). As for the ending, when I first saw it, I had perceived (spoiler) the tornado at the end as God's punishment to Larry for giving in to changing the student's grade. With your thoughts in mind, it sort of alters my interpretation.
As a religious Catholic *and* a bisexual male, I find this topic interesing, and I'd response to your post if it weren't so stupid. Please, get to know the doctrine/ideology you comment on before you call it "nonesense"
Interesting analysis, but you neglected the dybukk opening. That, I think is the whole movie in 6 minutes. The Coens state what is wrong with their church, they hark back to the destruction of the temple and they say something very profound about our reality today
....continued: Maybe we're supposed to just receive the scene with simplicity like the proverb at the beginning says! "Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you."
@schneidervideography I agree,as a religious Jew with an uncut beard,hat thing,non religious Jews are afraid to stand out.No one will mistake me for anything but Jewish.Here in Israel all humour is directed in laughing at ourselves.Satires,films,liturature,journals in Israel are all pointing out our lacks,weaknesses,follies,drives.Self criticism or by others only improves a person .Torah itself says "Love criticism".
I don't see anything in this film that attacks the existence of God. It is a retelling of Job. At the end of Job, God, in the form of a whirlwind, tells Job that He is all-powerful and restores Job's health and family. The film's ending would seem to portend disaster for Larry and his family, but I think the ending is hopeful - it shows that God is present and will guarantee that larry's life is restored to normal.
You have to remember that God knows everything about us, and He wants to seek a relationship with us, but he has given us Free Will to decide if we will reject him or not. That doesn't mean God won't love us. We are fortunate that our God is a loving, just God, and will be fair when it comes to meeting him when we pass on to the next life. As for Hart Crane, no one is in a position to judge as to whether or not someone like him will go to Heaven. Is it possible? In my opinion, absolutely.
I got a much more pessimistic vibe out of the ending of the movie. Because it wasn't just the tornado, it was the phone call from the doctor implying bad news, and all this happened after he relented and took a bribe from one of his students' parent. Implying of course, that god is vengeful and will strike you down if you disobey.
You correctly got the gist of what the Coen brothers are saying except one small point. You are correct that the movie ends and is actually through and through - pessimistic. But the Coen bros go one step further, actually saying that the optimistic belief which sometimes goes together with God are two mistakes. The idea of God according to them is nonsense, and being optimistic is stupid.
I thought the tornado and the ominous call from his doctor at the end, presumably with bad news, was a punishment. Throughout the movie Larry is trying to be faithful, but his constant refrain is 'I didn't do anything' -- which is just his problem. When he does do something -- takes the bribe and changes the grade -- really terrible things happen. But that is still an affirmation of God's presence and purpose. It is ironic, and a harsh love. Larry is an anti-Job, but God is still glorified.
I appreciate your thoughtful review and comments. I disagree with your conclusions. The Coen Brothers are tossing up their hands declaring life and its bizarre events can not be understood. Unfortunately most modern Hebrew individuals and families live at this level. Only by understanding both the Old Testament and New Testament together do all the questions get answered.
I don't know; I think that's too cynical. God knows, they tend in a nihilist direction, but I always sense that they pull back from it, perhaps their Biblical formation stubbornly reasserting itself.
Bishop Robert Barron Did I just read that correctly? Jews tend to be nihilists?! I would posit that the Jewish people I know run the gamut of religious ideals, from extreme orthodoxy to atheism. But you can easily say the same about any religious or ethnic group.
@lacansfoolosopher --i agree. interestingly, i thought of joyce too (God with his seemingly random, sometimes harsh, justice as "epileptic Lord and Giver of life"). i viewed the film as a satirical parody of the book of job and it certainly made consistent sense. i think the film is a companion piece to "No Country for Old Men", both films about a man losing his faith. it reminded me some of preston sturges; a lot of comedy, but a troubling darkness at the center.
movie is saying, don't ask too many questions.. you will never figure it out anyway as humans are not capable of. just dumb it down a little and live like everyone else. find love, get married, have children, work to make money that buys you a house and bread, and eventually die. this is the best we can ask from life.
Although I like many of your commentaries, I thought you dodged the primary issue in the Job story. What the writer(s) of Job were wrestling with was the question "Whence comes evil?" Why do the righteous and innocent suffer? The metaphoric explanation in Job is that God has made a wager with Satan and allows him, with one restriction, to have his way with the man. God allows evil activity. Job endures because he clings to the idea of making his case before God and receiving an answer
Fr. Barron - you bring up good points, but I think some of them are stretches. Ultimately, I don't view this movie as an expression of the Coen's faith but of their agnosticism. If Larry is truly evocative of Job, where is his renewed prosperity at the film's end? After all the trite advice and angst, he's left with an implied death & still has a hateful wife and children. If anything, the whirlwind represents not the voice of God but the Coen's view of the world as chaos, i.e. anti-Providence.
It's nice to find Christian meaning within the Coens' movies, although I think it's difficult for non-Jews to really know what their intent is. Kind of like the end of the tooth story scene when the protagonist asks the rabbi "what happened to the goy", and the rabbi looks at him very perplexed and says, "The goy?... Who cares?!"
3 separate movies play out in this film. First is a forgettable dark comedy. Second is about a man with a perceived low locus of control who cannot understand the cascade of events playing out because he “didn’t do anything”. The 3rd rabbi gives him this answer when he refuses to meet w him- The 3rd rabbi “didn’t do anything”. Why? Becuz he “is busy thinking”. U also get that message in the parable about the teeth where the orthodontist walks into the Red Owl at the height of his confusion, stymied in his life, and stands under the sign that reads “PRODUCE”. The 3rd film is revealed in the physics lessons - Schrödinger’s cat parable where Sy and Larry are involved in an accident at the same time, Sy dies, Larry lives , Sy comes back In Dreams making Sy and Larry both dead and alive simultaneously. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle is played out by Clive. Clive and his father both acknowledge brining and not bribing Larry simultaneously. Clive’s father says “please , accept the mystery” meaning life cannot be understood using the simple patterns of evidence you’ve collected and u need to learn to live with a level of certainty understanding that it’s not likely the way the universe is. This is shown in party’s simple minded neighbour who doesn’t think too much and therefore has absolute clarity on life. His relationship with his wife and son are better than Larrys, he’s certain about the property boundary, he instinctively hates Larry but given his likely involvement in the Korean War his is not at all conflicted siding with Larry against the Korean. The whole film is littered with clues too many to mention but u have to watch it several times to see all 3 films.
All that said, I think making a direct comparison to Job is a little faulty. After all, Job's friends were jerks, not wise rabbis, as Barron's comparison would follow. I personally keep thinking about Romans 6:23: "for the wages of sin is death." As Larry says while reprimanding Clive. "In this office, actions have consequences." The consequence of Larry's actions (changing the grade) is death. It seems harsh, but I can't get it out of my head. But, are the Coens big on Pauline theology?
I don't think this is a "spoiler"....I sent this Father Barron video to friends that might never watch "A Serious Man" ....and take it seriously. ....FWIW, I am Jewish.
I'm afraid Fr. Barron and I must have seen two completely different versions of this film, literally and figuratively. The ideas & questions that I think the Coens are expressing & asking would have gotten them burnt at the stake as Gnostic heretics a few hundred years ago. This film's exploration of evil and God's seeming indifference (or worse) continues the disturbing questions posed earlier in "No Country for Old Men". Fr. Barron's take is, for me, a stretch at best.
Is this really a Job allegory? I thought Job was about God testing the faith of a very fortunate man who had extraordinary faith, but whom the devil claimed would loose his faith if God took away what made him so fortunate. Was Larry really like Job? And, like you say, his faith itself was not tested; he simply could find no answers. And Rabbi Nochner, far from giving Larry an answer, says "HaShem owes us no anwers."
@hashkat --i dunno. i think he uses movies to push a few points of his own agenda, whether they have anything to do with the movie or not. as a review, its pretty weak. apparently some people find comfort in it when confronted by difficult, ambiguous material.
There's more subtext to the movie than this. Whta does the kid mean, at the end of the movie, when he looks up at an American flag and says "That fucking flag is gonna fall"? I never thought he was talking just about the flag itself, but rather about Jewsih people in America and how they are lost, even the ones who were supposed to guide the others.
@Nergoil further, indulge me for a moment and try seeing this film through "fresh eyes". view the coens as latter-day gnostics and fr. barron as a latter-day irenaeus (sp?) attempting to neutralize or de-claw this films very discomforting message: that the creator of this world may be imperfect.
@Nergoil i have absolutely no idea what God is 'supposed' to do. i believe the 2nd rabbi told larry hashem doesnt owe us any explanations, which is a little more reasonable than the 1st rabbi's response (for me anyway, but then im just some guy about the coens age who grew up in the suburbs; i got the joke about the parking lot). the 3rd rabbi didnt respond to larry at all, but i think his talk with the son was telling. larry i think is finding the truth hes been taught to be lies. "Vot den?"
What is more, the depiction of the 3 rabbi's isn't quite anti-clerical so much as a respectful posit that clergy are incapable of helping one discover God. You mentioned the old rabbi's wisdom, but where is it? Surely it's not in him quoting a song whose message really doesn't relate to story's events nor provide a plausible solution (precisely because already *is* loving people [wife, children, brother] who aren't loving him back)? It's definitely not in his vapid expression "Be a good boy."
Exactly, except that the Coen's are not talking about "clerics" they are talking about rabbis. They are talking about the three Jewish movements in the US. And that is exactly what they are saying. The rabbis have no wisdom. According to the Coens, there is no good and there is no God.
I see your point. I do think that Christianity has been a benevolent force in the development of the West. But consider this: one nation that contributed greatly to the West prior to WW II, particularly in the field of theology, is Germany. What is the spiritual etiology of the triumph of Nazism? At least the writer(s) of Job were were perceptive enough to acknowledge that if God is omniscient and omnipotent then you can't pin all the responsibility for the existence of evil on man even if
highlighted the dream of an old sheriff who had been psychologically defeated by the scale and depravity of the evil that he had been battling in modern Texas. In his dream, the Sheriff''s deceased father has prepared a campfire clearing in the desert for the two of them. Yes, a metaphor of a loving God providing deliverance on the other side. But somehow it strikes me as being only what it is--a dream.
Sign of god in teeth is true finest structure of God is in bone structure. Jacobs ladder of 33 spinal column and 32 human teeth and who are 34 the one. Eye symbol is most overused symbol of course most complex but skeleton is where structure available for human study.
Father Barron synopsis was very good however he missed something very pivotal. He didn't discuss how Larry compromised his ethics by changing Clive's grade. It was at that moment that the situation turned grim. This was different than the story of Job who never gave up faith and was thus rewarded.
Very good point, also because he compromised his ethics and his tenure was not explicitly granted to him he could have not got that either.
I agree with that. I was also wondering, how does the message, "you better find somebody to love" resolve Larry's (and our) questions? How does it relate to the problems he's facing? It's interesting that the bishop here kind of reaffirms the advice of the three rabbis. Aren't we supposed to see their advice as kind of silly and trite? In the context of the Biblical story of Job, the three friends' answers are certainly all supposed to be seen as dismissible.
I may be wrong here, but iirc he _didn't_ change Clive's grade. Or did he? He just erased the F, but idr him actually writing anything in response. It's ambiguous, uncertain. See: Schrodinger. Accept the mystery.
Instablaster...
@@RickJaeger he changed his grade to a c minus. Rewatch the scene.
As a (non-observant) Jew who absolutely adores this movie, I found the opportunity to hear the interpretation of a Christian minister very interesting. I always thought of the film's themes and style as being very particularly Jewish, but it's so open to interpretation that nearly anyone who has put real thought into questions of God, faith and order in the universe can offer an interesting and unique perspective on it, and I like Father Barron's.
Bishop Barron has such a great personality.
the meaning and criticism of the film is simple: You spend more time looking for answers, that doing something about your life.
Righto!
Αμεν
Well then
Great stuff Fr. Barron. Thanks. The story of Job is my story. In fact everyman's. And yes we gotta find somebody to love - and in loving God we find we love all that God loves - all of humanity. - Blessings - Rene
This is their best film
I'm an atheist and yet I like this interpretation. What is extrapolated is sensible and useful. I read some other comments here and there is a lot of irrelevant ideological echo chamber reassurance. Keep up the good work Bishop!
God bless you.
Your really not an ATHEIST trust me you will soon see why. Be well
@@chissstardestroyer people can't explain away the creation or lack of creation of the universe, not now and probably not ever. the prime mover arguement eats itself because if everything has to have been caused from something then there can't be prime mover who hasn't been previously moved. and if we can make one exception then why make the exception a creator and not the creation?
@@chissstardestroyer why can't something come from nothing?
But the rabbi doesn't say find somebody to love. He specifically says "When the truth is found to be lies, and all the joy within you dies...then what?" Crucially, the rabbi does not give an answer. The audience provides an answer. Grace Slick provides an answer. The rabbi says "These are the words of the Airplane," then gives back the radio saying "Be a good boy."
This is a complex movie. It is not only a retelling of Job, but also an exploration of quantum physics and what it can and can't say about the existence and intention of God in our lives. With so much left to the viewer, it is no wonder you saw your answer, and some others here saw their own answer in the film. I think that is one of the characteristics that make great media great -- it makes you think, and encourages you to draw your own conclusions.
I suggest you watch this one again, and soak in some of the nuances. It is a spiritually and intellectually rewarding experience.
You are right in every word you said
This movie hit me in so many ways. No, Rabbi didn't give the answer just another question, but be a good boy. Choose you this day! Its up to each of us to choose the answer we know to be true. Love your perspective.
What an arrogant and patronising thing to say, as if the Bishop did not pick up on the nuances but you in your great wisdom and intelligence did. Then what? is the Rabbi prompting the boy to think so he can understand for himself that love is the answer. The movie is not an exploration of quantum physics per say, but the sciences in general, which includes mathematics, the verification principle,what can be measured and observed and what the sciences can and can't achieve
Fr. Barron is redeeming the priesthood with his fantastic taste in film. For the first time in a long time, I agree with one of my priests.
This is my favorite movie. I found your interpretation of the film extremely poignant. Initially, upon first viewing, I found the film to be an attack on the very existence of God and the belief in any type of order in the universe. Seeing it more than once led me to find that this was a very one-sided analysis. Your insight on the film from a spiritual, religious perspective is just as valid. As a current agnostic I found this to be very interesting. Thank you for this video.
The last scene with the tornado seemed to me to illustrate the "reaping of the whirlwind" , the Uncertainty Principle Larry was talking about vis-a-vis Schroedinger 's cat and the mystery of God's Will. We really don't know what's going to happen to Daniel or Larry, but can only guess at the likelihood of their impending doom being pretty good.
Really great breakdown of this, especially spiritually speaking. I also had the parallel in my mind between Larry and Job.
Actually what the old Rabbi says instead of Somebody to Love is, "What then?" That little variation on the lyrics changes the meaning of the song entirely, and that's what makes the use of the song so interesting.
I love your film interpretations. I don't think the Coens set out to make a spiritual film the way you saw it but it's still a legit view. Trust the tale and not the teller.
Exactly! Also: the analysis presented here does not take the opening scene into account. To me the movie is about failing to stand your ground.
I reviewed it. Take a look through my UA-cam archives.
IMO, "When the truth is found to be lies and all the hope (joy) within you dies ... then what? [Ans.] Be a good boy." Thus spake Qoheleth. (Eccl 12:13: "Fear God and keep his commandments.")
I'm aware this video was posted some time ago but I feel compelled non the less to comment on your interpretation, which is fascinating and thought provoking. The key issue that arises in your analysis revolves around that paramount piece of evidence concerning the wise words of the elder rabbi. He indeed does recite the opening lines of Somebody to Love though he does not do so in its entirety. He says: "When the truth is found to be lies, and all the hope within you dies-" then there is a pause, he finishes with: "then what?" Marshak does not directly recite the chorus and instead lets us linger on a question. This is deliberate. Why? I don't know, but it is. It would have been easy to write in that next bit of dialogue where in which the rabbi would have concluded the song, but the Coen's decided against dispelling of there signature ambiguity. Instead it seems that even the rabbi cannot give a sufficient answer. "Accept the mystery" may be the answer, despite it being not much of an answer at all. Does there have to be a reason for anything? Does everything need to be justified? We'd sleep more soundly. Perhaps that's why religion is such an attractive enterprise, all the simple answers spelled out with the turn of a page.
I own the movie and watched it twice, and I always enjoyed it as a purely nihilistic work, and I never noticed the significance of the song. Guess I’ll have to watch it again
Well love, for both Christians and Jews, hasn't a thing to do with sentimentality or "everything working out just fine." The God who speaks in this movie is the God disclosed in the book of Job, who is indeed a God of love. But authentic love is, as Dostoevsky put it, "a harsh and dreadful thing."
@wordonfirevideo
I'm sorry your Jewish friends hate this movie. I'm Jewish and this is one of my favorite movies of all time. The Coen brothers "laugh at" everyone (why should Jews be an exception?). It is a modern day retelling of the book of Job. It's an absolutely beautiful film. A masterpiece - truly.
Larry doesn't talk to the final rabbi. The final rabbi only speaks to Danny saying "be a good boy." Danny is Not a good boy (listens to radio Again in class), and Larry is also not a good boy (changes Clive's grade). As such, they are somehow "punished," or, see the power of God firsthand. I don't think this film has to do with love as it's described here. I think the message is closer to "life is miserable and a mystery; you still have to be a good boy." Very similar message as Job.
Thanks for the comparison w Job!
@alexington459 I would tell your Jewish friends to re-read the 38th chapter of the book of Job. It is none other than the voice of God that comes "from the whirlwind." Larry hasn't been abandoned by God; he's being addressed by God.
I finally got around to watching this film - I loved it. Thank you for your commentary, Bishop. I'm wondering what your thoughts are about the opening scene of the film - with the 19th century married couple and the "dybbuk"? I found it hilariously intriguing but puzzling. Thank you, Bishop!
The church never pronounces on who is in heaven or hell. That's up to God.
Very good discussion on this awesome movie. Left out some important themes, however, I do agree with the interpretation of the lyrics to the Jefferson Airplane song which are repeated throughout the movie.
The movie has an apocalyptic blackness about it.Watching these characters and their fragmented lives,rarely connecting in any meaningful way,the brothers Coen don't make us feel that we are pieces of a larger jigsaw puzzle.Remember there are only aspects of the story of Job,the writers have given us their own feelings,ideas and conclusions.
One of the best lines in the film is when the Rabbi says,"We can't know everything",to which Larry replies,"Sounds like you don't know anything".
Right. The Coen brothers are saying: the search for answers is futile, and even if you would try, you can't navigate your destiny in any meaningful way.
The book of Job on the other hand is saying: The world on the one hand is not a simplistic do this and you'll get that, but on the other hand, don't give up.
You know, I'm still thinking about it. What are your thoughts?
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on "The Master" some day, Fr. Barron.
@Nergoil I think that's right.
Why didn't you talk about the ending in which Lawrence accepts the bribe and then, gets a call from his doctor asking him to come to his office as if maybe Lawrence has a terminal illness? Is this fair? Did Lawrence Gobnick deserve this?
Coming up soon.
As I final comment, I can understand why Father Barron likes Fargo. Despite the morally bankrupt characters and the violence (disposing of bodies in the chipper), ultimately the film has a very moral message, voiced by the female police chief towards the end of the film, when she tells the arrested man how shocked she is by his actions, all for the sake of a little money. And Margie herself embodies steadfast dedication to her job, her principles, and her less than stellar husband.
Thankyou :)
B Barron I was wrong about your review of Serious Man…….I should have known better….thank you for a great review
Good reply
Absolutely everything in the film is ambiguous: the causal connections, the outcomes, the explanations. Everything. The problem of evil is not a problem if it has a nice, pat, easy solution. Leave the easy solutions to Job's friends.
Well, I think to some extent they want us to scratch our heads about it. I think the scene is important precisely because we're supposed to be confused and unsure. (I also think those folks might have been Larry's ancestors.) The scene kind of establishes what you'll think for the rest of the movie: Is the man a dybbuk, or a mortal? Is the tornado at the end just weather? I think the opening scene is about mystery and unknowability, this theme continued w/ ref to Schrodinger.
I wrote to the Coen Brother's and asked them to comment on the discussion.
Come on! That's far too easy.
Actually, you're right! I should have said that it never determines who's in Hell.
from imdb trivia page: Another Biblical allusion is that Larry sees his neighbor's beautiful naked wife sunbathing over the fence, like King David saw Bathsheba. (btw is it a coincidence that she has the word "Bath" in her name?)
Also, on the phone w/ record company he keeps saying he doesn't want Abraxas by Santana. He doesn't want Abraxas, didn't order Abraxas, doesn't like "Abraxas," which is a gnostic term for god and the etymological root of "Abra Cadabra;" he's rejecting god and magic.
@Nergoil That's a brilliant assessment! I think yo nailed the theme of the picture.
Well where do you think Shakespeare or the Romantics got it from ?!!
This man is a Rock Star.
I'd like to see what Fr. Barron thinks of No Country For Old Men, another great Coen brothers film.
I always thought the ending concluded on the note saying Larry needs to learn to stand up for himself and not let others step on him and that this cycle of misfortune will continue on until he learns to do that.
I think the Cohens give the answer to that question in the beginning of the movie where it states "be naive with your God" hat means take some things as they are and don't seek to much for a meaning because you don't see the whole picture. It is also interesting that through the course of the movie as long as he does morally good things nothing bad happens to him, his wife lover dies in a car crash exactlly the same time he has a car accident too but he doesn't get even scratched. But as soon as he accepts bribe from a student his luck turns on him...
Thanks so much, and now I would be happy to answer your question.
You have to remember that it's not up to us as to who will go to Heaven or not. While I myself consider myself a Christian who believes in Christ, that alone will not guarantee me into the Kingdom of Heaven. When someone says, "Oh that person's going to Heaven; oh he's going to Hell," and so on and so on, let me ask: How do you know that? It's not up to us to decide who goes to the kingdom of heaven.
Very insightful thoughts, Father Barron, as always. I thought the movie was brilliant (one of the Coen's best). As for the ending, when I first saw it, I had perceived (spoiler) the tornado at the end as God's punishment to Larry for giving in to changing the student's grade. With your thoughts in mind, it sort of alters my interpretation.
Wow--Fr Barron's interpretation is radically different from mine. It's interesting to hear a completely different take on the same material.
As a religious Catholic *and* a bisexual male, I find this topic interesing, and I'd response to your post if it weren't so stupid. Please, get to know the doctrine/ideology you comment on before you call it "nonesense"
What did you make of that cryptic first scene?
I wonder sometimes if film critics ever look back later at a film they reviewed, scratch their heads and say "Wow, did I ever miss that one!"
Interesting analysis, but you neglected the dybukk opening. That, I think is the whole movie in 6 minutes. The Coens state what is wrong with their church, they hark back to the destruction of the temple and they say something very profound about our reality today
....continued: Maybe we're supposed to just receive the scene with simplicity like the proverb at the beginning says! "Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you."
@schneidervideography I agree,as a religious Jew with an uncut beard,hat thing,non religious Jews are afraid to stand out.No one will mistake me for anything but Jewish.Here in Israel all humour is directed in laughing at ourselves.Satires,films,liturature,journals in Israel are all pointing out our lacks,weaknesses,follies,drives.Self criticism or by others only improves a person .Torah itself says "Love criticism".
Yup.
What do you think of Happiest season?
God puts us here to reveal to all creation who loves HIM in return for the life He freely gives and who DOES NOT
The character you've crafted for your God is pretty insecure and needy. Sounds like the resume of a very ancient - and human - ruler.
Ah! Very cool.
I looked into the "Abraxas" etymology and it may be questionable...but still, perhaps this is still how the directors intended it.
You totally missed the criticisms of Talmudic Judaism’s lack of logos. That was the main idea.
I don't see anything in this film that attacks the existence of God. It is a retelling of Job. At the end of Job, God, in the form of a whirlwind, tells Job that He is all-powerful and restores Job's health and family. The film's ending would seem to portend disaster for Larry and his family, but I think the ending is hopeful - it shows that God is present and will guarantee that larry's life is restored to normal.
I make that mistake too frequently. I also cannot spell "bureaucracy" without looking it up.
You have to remember that God knows everything about us, and He wants to seek a relationship with us, but he has given us Free Will to decide if we will reject him or not. That doesn't mean God won't love us. We are fortunate that our God is a loving, just God, and will be fair when it comes to meeting him when we pass on to the next life.
As for Hart Crane, no one is in a position to judge as to whether or not someone like him will go to Heaven. Is it possible? In my opinion, absolutely.
I got a much more pessimistic vibe out of the ending of the movie. Because it wasn't just the tornado, it was the phone call from the doctor implying bad news, and all this happened after he relented and took a bribe from one of his students' parent. Implying of course, that god is vengeful and will strike you down if you disobey.
You correctly got the gist of what the Coen brothers are saying except one small point. You are correct that the movie ends and is actually through and through - pessimistic. But the Coen bros go one step further, actually saying that the optimistic belief which sometimes goes together with God are two mistakes. The idea of God according to them is nonsense, and being optimistic is stupid.
What, no scene with Rabi Marvin Antelman? That would've been some interesting discernment.
Thats an interesting take
I'd like someone to write a book about this movie, its symbolism and message.
I thought the tornado and the ominous call from his doctor at the end, presumably with bad news, was a punishment. Throughout the movie Larry is trying to be faithful, but his constant refrain is 'I didn't do anything' -- which is just his problem. When he does do something -- takes the bribe and changes the grade -- really terrible things happen. But that is still an affirmation of God's presence and purpose. It is ironic, and a harsh love. Larry is an anti-Job, but God is still glorified.
Kinda glossed over the whole Schrodinger's Cat thing, father.
The bishop is a serious man.
@Jugglable the cryptic scene is that Larry's cursed because his grandmother (?) stabbed the rabi
I appreciate your thoughtful review and comments. I disagree with your conclusions. The Coen Brothers are tossing up their hands declaring life and its bizarre events can not be understood. Unfortunately most modern Hebrew individuals and families live at this level. Only by understanding both the Old Testament and New Testament together do all the questions get answered.
I don't know; I think that's too cynical. God knows, they tend in a nihilist direction, but I always sense that they pull back from it, perhaps their Biblical formation stubbornly reasserting itself.
Bishop Robert Barron Did I just read that correctly? Jews tend to be nihilists?! I would posit that the Jewish people I know run the gamut of religious ideals, from extreme orthodoxy to atheism. But you can easily say the same about any religious or ethnic group.
'The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit' by Dr. E. Michael Jones may answer that.
@lacansfoolosopher --i agree. interestingly, i thought of joyce too (God with his seemingly random, sometimes harsh, justice as "epileptic Lord and Giver of life"). i viewed the film as a satirical parody of the book of job and it certainly made consistent sense. i think the film is a companion piece to "No Country for Old Men", both films about a man losing his faith. it reminded me some of preston sturges; a lot of comedy, but a troubling darkness at the center.
Good films can be interpreted in so many different ways. I love this film 🎥 but as an atheist I have a completely different take. Interesting 🤔
movie is saying, don't ask too many questions.. you will never figure it out anyway as humans are not capable of. just dumb it down a little and live like everyone else. find love, get married, have children, work to make money that buys you a house and bread, and eventually die. this is the best we can ask from life.
Although I like many of your commentaries, I thought you dodged the primary issue in the Job story. What the writer(s) of Job were wrestling with was the question "Whence comes evil?" Why do the righteous and innocent suffer? The metaphoric explanation in Job is that God has made a wager with Satan and allows him, with one restriction, to have his way with the man. God allows evil activity. Job endures because he clings to the idea of making his case before God and receiving an answer
"Be a good boy"
I often struggle over the spelling of brobdingnagian.
Great and deep analysis of a Masterpiece of Cinema 's History !!!
Fr. Barron - you bring up good points, but I think some of them are stretches. Ultimately, I don't view this movie as an expression of the Coen's faith but of their agnosticism. If Larry is truly evocative of Job, where is his renewed prosperity at the film's end? After all the trite advice and angst, he's left with an implied death & still has a hateful wife and children. If anything, the whirlwind represents not the voice of God but the Coen's view of the world as chaos, i.e. anti-Providence.
Exactly. And we know the Coens views from outside the movie so it all fits in.
Oy, with the flame wars....
It's nice to find Christian meaning within the Coens' movies, although I think it's difficult for non-Jews to really know what their intent is. Kind of like the end of the tooth story scene when the protagonist asks the rabbi "what happened to the goy", and the rabbi looks at him very perplexed and says, "The goy?... Who cares?!"
3 separate movies play out in this film. First is a forgettable dark comedy. Second is about a man with a perceived low locus of control who cannot understand the cascade of events playing out because he “didn’t do anything”. The 3rd rabbi gives him this answer when he refuses to meet w him- The 3rd rabbi “didn’t do anything”. Why? Becuz he “is busy thinking”. U also get that message in the parable about the teeth where the orthodontist walks into the Red Owl at the height of his confusion, stymied in his life, and stands under the sign that reads “PRODUCE”. The 3rd film is revealed in the physics lessons - Schrödinger’s cat parable where Sy and Larry are involved in an accident at the same time, Sy dies, Larry lives , Sy comes back In Dreams making Sy and Larry both dead and alive simultaneously. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle is played out by Clive. Clive and his father both acknowledge brining and not bribing Larry simultaneously. Clive’s father says “please , accept the mystery” meaning life cannot be understood using the simple patterns of evidence you’ve collected and u need to learn to live with a level of certainty understanding that it’s not likely the way the universe is. This is shown in party’s simple minded neighbour who doesn’t think too much and therefore has absolute clarity on life. His relationship with his wife and son are better than Larrys, he’s certain about the property boundary, he instinctively hates Larry but given his likely involvement in the Korean War his is not at all conflicted siding with Larry against the Korean. The whole film is littered with clues too many to mention but u have to watch it several times to see all 3 films.
All that said, I think making a direct comparison to Job is a little faulty. After all, Job's friends were jerks, not wise rabbis, as Barron's comparison would follow. I personally keep thinking about Romans 6:23: "for the wages of sin is death." As Larry says while reprimanding Clive. "In this office, actions have consequences." The consequence of Larry's actions (changing the grade) is death. It seems harsh, but I can't get it out of my head. But, are the Coens big on Pauline theology?
thank you. How about a review of Barbie?
I don't think this is a "spoiler"....I sent this Father Barron video to friends that might never watch "A Serious Man" ....and take it seriously.
....FWIW, I am Jewish.
What happened to spelling "lose" correctly? Seriously, nobody seems to be able to do it anymore.
@TheDudeMick117 ----it might be "Machine Gun" by hendrix.....
@majorhoop thanks man :D
I'm afraid Fr. Barron and I must have seen two completely different versions of this film, literally and figuratively. The ideas & questions that I think the Coens are expressing & asking would have gotten them burnt at the stake as Gnostic heretics a few hundred years ago. This film's exploration of evil and God's seeming indifference (or worse) continues the disturbing questions posed earlier in "No Country for Old Men". Fr. Barron's take is, for me, a stretch at best.
Is this really a Job allegory? I thought Job was about God testing the faith of a very fortunate man who had extraordinary faith, but whom the devil claimed would loose his faith if God took away what made him so fortunate. Was Larry really like Job? And, like you say, his faith itself was not tested; he simply could find no answers. And Rabbi Nochner, far from giving Larry an answer, says "HaShem owes us no anwers."
jorenste mkg thx
@hashkat --i dunno. i think he uses movies to push a few points of his own agenda, whether they have anything to do with the movie or not. as a review, its pretty weak. apparently some people find comfort in it when confronted by difficult, ambiguous material.
There's more subtext to the movie than this. Whta does the kid mean, at the end of the movie, when he looks up at an American flag and says "That fucking flag is gonna fall"? I never thought he was talking just about the flag itself, but rather about Jewsih people in America and how they are lost, even the ones who were supposed to guide the others.
Daniel Campos The USA is destined to fall. Furthermore, it is all Larry's fault for changing that grade from F to C-.
@Nergoil further, indulge me for a moment and try seeing this film through "fresh eyes". view the coens as latter-day gnostics and fr. barron as a latter-day irenaeus (sp?) attempting to neutralize or de-claw this films very discomforting message: that the creator of this world may be imperfect.
@Nergoil i have absolutely no idea what God is 'supposed' to do. i believe the 2nd rabbi told larry hashem doesnt owe us any explanations, which is a little more reasonable than the 1st rabbi's response (for me anyway, but then im just some guy about the coens age who grew up in the suburbs; i got the joke about the parking lot). the 3rd rabbi didnt respond to larry at all, but i think his talk with the son was telling. larry i think is finding the truth hes been taught to be lies. "Vot den?"
But the movie has a bleak conclusion.He gets no answers to his problems.I think there is an undercurrent of something more existential and terrifying.
What is more, the depiction of the 3 rabbi's isn't quite anti-clerical so much as a respectful posit that clergy are incapable of helping one discover God. You mentioned the old rabbi's wisdom, but where is it? Surely it's not in him quoting a song whose message really doesn't relate to story's events nor provide a plausible solution (precisely because already *is* loving people [wife, children, brother] who aren't loving him back)? It's definitely not in his vapid expression "Be a good boy."
Exactly, except that the Coen's are not talking about "clerics" they are talking about rabbis. They are talking about the three Jewish movements in the US. And that is exactly what they are saying. The rabbis have no wisdom. According to the Coens, there is no good and there is no God.
I see your point. I do think that Christianity has been a benevolent force in the development of the West. But consider this: one nation that contributed greatly to the West prior to WW II, particularly in the field of theology, is Germany. What is the spiritual etiology of the triumph of Nazism? At least the writer(s) of Job were were perceptive enough to acknowledge that if God is omniscient and omnipotent then you can't pin all the responsibility for the existence of evil on man even if
highlighted the dream of an old sheriff who had been psychologically defeated by the scale and depravity of the evil that he had been battling in modern Texas. In his dream, the Sheriff''s deceased father has prepared a campfire clearing in the desert for the two of them. Yes, a metaphor of a loving God providing deliverance on the other side. But somehow it strikes me as being only what it is--a dream.
Sign of god in teeth is true finest structure of God is in bone structure. Jacobs ladder of 33 spinal column and 32 human teeth and who are 34 the one. Eye symbol is most overused symbol of course most complex but skeleton is where structure available for human study.