I love it when cell tower folks comment that this is NOT the way they ground a cell tower. The issue is MONEY. Amateur radio operators usually cannot install a full perimeter ground with multiple ground rods 8 feet apart around the entire house-- all interconnected with #4 ground wire that is all cad welder. :) Nor can we usually ground everything in the shack including the operating chair! I would appreciate it if you folks would;d step back a minute and remember the word MONEY. Usually an amateur tower surrounded by at least 3 ground rods in a "halo" system around the tower and a copper strap from each tower leg to a ground rod, with the tower also connected to the utility ground for the house--- and the local ground rod positioned outside and very near the shack also tied to the tower is probably all that a normal ham can accomplish at a residential site at a reasonable cost. In most cases this will place the equipment in the shack at a similar voltage potential as the house and the tower. Will it absolutely protect you from a direct lightning strike -- well no. Why? because the lightning just traveled a long distance across air to reach the tower and will chose it's own path to ground. Hopefully one of the ones at the base of the tower--- BUT? who knows? That's why they make quick disconnect type PL259 adapters. :) 73
Excellent article Joe, My grounding system seems to be working but I'm going to upgrade the materials. My grounding rod is outside the house, and all antenna coaxes are also grounded. Many years ago, I did have a ground rod in thru the floor of My shack, the lightning hit My antennas on My tower and come down the coax into My shack, welding some PL259-SO239s along the way. Luckily , My equipment wasn't connected apart from an antenna switch which was burnt/melted. So, I'm keeping the grounding rod outside the house this time. Lee VK2LEE
Several Ebay Partner links-- support the channel use these links to buy. Thanks. Braid and copper strap-- goo.gl/6MkjKH Ground rods and clamps- goo.gl/6Lp1sb
Superflatrock- of course there is an impedance mismatch-- its a 160-6 meter long wire with wrapped torrid. I use an antenna tuner. The RF in the shack was caused by ground loops and the regular wire I was using. Once I went to a single point ground using 3/4 inch braid the radio never shut down again. I have since added a Flex 3000 SDR radio which is sensitive to RFI without any issues. It was my poor grounding system causing the RFI probably had several ground loops inside the shack. See my latest videos for a view of the shack at this time. 73.
Thanks for the video. I am a brand new ham with General setting up my shack. I just purchased my HF rig and am looking forward to my first QSO so I have a question: Even with the common ground/earth connection the power from those units have another path to ground through the utility power. So is that not a concern? Interesting that you solved all your problems this way. Hard to argue against real world experience. 73 de KI5HXM
Hi Joe. I am a newbie in the ARRL, just joined 2 days ago. Studding for technician class. Is their a method of detecting or metering the presence of RF in the shack? I also live in East Tawaokni. Sort of a neighbor. Trying to get nerve enough to attend the SVARA monthly meeting. On 3rd Thursday. Thanks
Most times RF will get into the audio or the radio and cause distorted or "buzzing" audio, it can actually turn off the radio as mine did before I improved the grounding by bonding all the equipment to a single point, and using braid instead of a wire.
I need a little ground advice as a new HF ham, just got my general. I want a good ground in my shack, but my problem is location. The nearest spot I can push a grounding rod is 30 ft from the rig. Would there be a problem drilling a hole though patio concrete outside the shack window and put the rod through to earth? Thanks to all who respond.
Ok here my opinion on single point ground. The first schematic was ok. There is no problem doing like that at all. Single point ground is not one ground rod and that it. No Sir! Single point ground is when you take all your equipment on the shack and grounded like you had it and then bond that ground rod to your main rod in house this includes the tower rods etc. All to one rod which is your main ground rod to the house. Analyze this and you will get it right away. Hope this helps.
good stuff - thanks for sharing. I used to have the single copper rod inside the shack (that you describe) and have had ground loop issues. I will be replacing that w/ the "right" way. We'll see how that works out for me. God Bless. N0AGI. 73s N0AGI.com/
I found this technic how to ground if you have a long run to the ground rod. Look at the bottom of this link, "alternative 2". The RF suppressor. kc.flexradio.com/knowledgebasearticle50426.aspx
Amazing how many views this particular video has. My ground is now complete. I ran #4 ground wire from the ground rod outside the shack over to the tower ground rods; then from the tower over to the mains house ground rod.
Greg, what happens with RF is every piece of equipment will have TWO ground paths if you wire it up as in the first picture. By using a single point ground you eliminate separate ground paths which can get back into the radio, microphone, or attached computer. This is called a ground loop which can cause your equipment to misbehave, or even shut off like mine did. You can also get feedback into the microphone every time you key up the transmitter.
Since this video I have upgraded the grounding by running braid to a single point behind the desk (from all the equipment--- and then running from there directly to the ground rod outside. I also improved the pass through panel grounding by replacing the ground wire with 1 inch copper strap.
Thank you for taking the time to post this important information. Is it possible to make this "choke balun" directly from the coax that attaches to the transceiver by making the circular loops, providing there is some additional length in the coax? Thanks again...
Yes you can make 8 to 10 loops of coax and or wrap about 18 ft of coax tightly around a 5 inch piece of pvc. You can also use a foot long run of clip on ferrite magnets mix 41 to choke out common mode currents. 73
Joe, in this video, in the diagram showing the correct "star" ground, I see "line isolators" in the coax between pieces of equipment. What are these? How do I construct them? Thanks and 73, Rich, WB2GXM
You can buy these or make them. Just google "choke Balun" or "line isolator ham radio". In my station I did not install the line isolators between the equipment. However I do have a line isolator outside the shack window on the QSO King end fed wire antenna. Here is a link to a commercial one- www.ebay.com/itm/Line-Isolator-Rated-1500-watts-stops-RFI-small-/141209547404?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item20e0beb28c You can make one by putting ferrite magnets around a piece of coax.
Great video. I want to ground my vertical antenna. How far should the ground rod be from the concrete slab that's in the ground. Also, is one ground rod sufficient or will I need to install more rods and if so, how far apart should each rod be from each other. Also, I will be installing a window cable pass-through and will be putting a ground rod outside of my window about 4 feet down from the window. Should I use copper braid to connect the ground rod to the window pass-through plate or will a solid copper wire work fine. Also; in the shack, should I use copper braid strips, attached to each piece of equipment to attach it straight to the inside ground lug located on my window pass-through?
The braid will work better than wire copper strap is even better. Both have more ground surface area than wire. My tower had 1, 8ft ground rod attached to each tower leg. I put the rods about 1 foot away from the concrete and all 3 rods were connected underground a few inches with #6 bare wire in a "halo" around the concrete. 73
Thanks for the quick reply. I will be using a window pass through option. So there is a wingnut screw on the inside to connect a ground wire too. Should I use the 1/2" copper braid coming out of all my equipment and connect to the window face plate ground screw and then use another braid on the outside to go straight to the ground rod or just use a solid copper wire from inside to the window face plate and wire or braid from the outside plate to the ground rod?
@@BoboAthanassion I have the same passthrough. In my case I ran the braid directly from thr single point inside the shack UNDER the passthrough and directly to the ground rod. Then I ran a second piece from the OUTSIDE wing nut to the ground rod to ground the shields of the coax cables.
Did I understand you correctly .. can i just take the braid from my radio , the braid from power source , go from power supply direct to ground ? Im a ham returning to my hobby ,, guess what i am asking .. braid from radio , braid from power supply , both going to my controller(rotor control) from controller , direct to ground ? in advance , thanks for your help / time ..
Attribution is given to www.radioworks.com for their excellent article on grounding located at this URL: www.radioworks.com/nbgnd.html Another excellent discussion can be found at this URL: www.bwcelectronics.com/articles/WP30A190.pdf 73, TelescopeMan
Figures 2 and 5 are electrically the same except the "line isolators" between equipment in figure 5. You said nothing about them that I recall. Had these "isolators" been installed in figure 2 the same result would be achieved = broken ground loop potential. What am I missing?
knikk77 Suggest you not ground or install a ground "mesh" on the floor of the shack. You can put a carpet over it so it's not visible. However many amateurs operate successfully without grounding. Try to eliminate any common mode currents and be sure the equipment is electric grounded using a 3 prong wall plug. Unplug everything during lightning.
knikk77, yes I was also surprised that the "bad" ground is also shown in the ARRL book as the way to do it! :) What can I say ? When I setup my shack that way I had lots of RFI. Once I went to a single point ground I have had no issues with RFI. Remember the type of antenna can contribute to RFI especially if it is near the actual equipment. Try to use a resonant dipole with a choke balun outside the shack usually mounted very near the actual antenna. This may help you eliminate RFI in an ungrounded ham shack up on the second floor. And-Or read about a wire mesh on the floor of the shack with all the grounds on the equipment connected to the mesh on the floor. This will equalize any differential currents and ground loops between the pieces of equipment.
Help support this channel. Visit my product recommendation web site and use the links there to buy. My Marketing site has Amazon Associate and Ebay Partner links plus other videos and articles by me that you may NOT have discovered. Thanks for your support. www.joelalumia.wixsite.com/telescopeman
I noticed at around 12:45 in the video it appears you soldered the copper ground strap to the ground rod.... I can tell you from experience solder with not hold up to a lightning strike. It does however melt and fly everywhere leaving you unprotected. IF you used a cadweld system all is well.
Brade is not a good radio ground, It's a good electrical ground,.. Flat strap copper is the prefered radio ground material, thats what we use in the broadcast & cellular industry, The gounding he discribs is great for electro static conditions. Radio grounds require a solid type material and all connections must be welded, a fluid connection if you will. Brade has resistance to radio frequencies. Hope this helps...
Take a look at the "tower" construction videos--- I do have copper strap there and also now on the pass-through panel grounding the shields of the coax, along with an Alpha Delta lightning arrest on the coax. However -- again- once I used the braid instead of wire I have experience no more RF in the shack even when using my amplifier. The Flex SDR radio and the Icom 7000 both work perfectly. Additionally my Heil PR781 microphone does not have RF interfering with the audio signal. (single point ground on all the equipment) 73 and thanks for your comments.
Not really-- you must however pass an FCC test to be licensed. Takes about 2 weeks of book studying. to pass the Technician test-- and probably another 3 weeks on top of that to pass the General test.
I love it when cell tower folks comment that this is NOT the way they ground a cell tower. The issue is MONEY. Amateur radio operators usually cannot install a full perimeter ground with multiple ground rods 8 feet apart around the entire house-- all interconnected with #4 ground wire that is all cad welder. :) Nor can we usually ground everything in the shack including the operating chair!
I would appreciate it if you folks would;d step back a minute and remember the word MONEY. Usually an amateur tower surrounded by at least 3 ground rods in a "halo" system around the tower and a copper strap from each tower leg to a ground rod, with the tower also connected to the utility ground for the house--- and the local ground rod positioned outside and very near the shack also tied to the tower is probably all that a normal ham can accomplish at a residential site at a reasonable cost.
In most cases this will place the equipment in the shack at a similar voltage potential as the house and the tower. Will it absolutely protect you from a direct lightning strike -- well no. Why? because the lightning just traveled a long distance across air to reach the tower and will chose it's own path to ground. Hopefully one of the ones at the base of the tower--- BUT? who knows? That's why they make quick disconnect type PL259 adapters. :)
73
Thank you so much for putting these vids together. Especially the HamShack setup. For a newbe like myself this is essential.
You are very welcome. 73
Excellent article Joe, My grounding system seems to be working but I'm going to upgrade the materials. My grounding rod is outside the house, and all antenna coaxes are also grounded. Many years ago, I did have a ground rod in thru the floor of My shack, the lightning hit My antennas on My tower and come down the coax into My shack, welding some PL259-SO239s along the way. Luckily , My equipment wasn't connected apart from an antenna switch which was burnt/melted. So, I'm keeping the grounding rod outside the house this time. Lee VK2LEE
Several Ebay Partner links-- support the channel use these links to buy. Thanks.
Braid and copper strap-- goo.gl/6MkjKH
Ground rods and clamps- goo.gl/6Lp1sb
Wow...interesting Joe....thanks.
Texas Jerry thanks again Jerry.
Superflatrock- of course there is an impedance mismatch-- its a 160-6 meter long wire with wrapped torrid. I use an antenna tuner. The RF in the shack was caused by ground loops and the regular wire I was using. Once I went to a single point ground using 3/4 inch braid the radio never shut down again. I have since added a Flex 3000 SDR radio which is sensitive to RFI without any issues. It was my poor grounding system causing the RFI probably had several ground loops inside the shack. See my latest videos for a view of the shack at this time. 73.
Thanks for the video. I am a brand new ham with General setting up my shack. I just purchased my HF rig and am looking forward to my first QSO so I have a question: Even with the common ground/earth connection the power from those units have another path to ground through the utility power. So is that not a concern? Interesting that you solved all your problems this way. Hard to argue against real world experience. 73 de KI5HXM
You need to replace the stainless with brass to prevent electrolysis from dissimilar metals. Save you a headache latter.👍👁👁🇺🇸
Hi Joe. I am a newbie in the ARRL, just joined 2 days ago. Studding for technician class. Is their a method of detecting or metering the presence of RF in the shack? I also live in East Tawaokni. Sort of a neighbor. Trying to get nerve enough to attend the SVARA monthly meeting. On 3rd Thursday. Thanks
Most times RF will get into the audio or the radio and cause distorted or "buzzing" audio, it can actually turn off the radio as mine did before I improved the grounding by bonding all the equipment to a single point, and using braid instead of a wire.
the two circuits you show (figures 3 & 5) are electrically the same, just different points of attachment?
Daisy chaining grounding as shown in the first figure is a bad idea - IMHO.
@@jarmstrong2843if is a bad idea why is is on the ARRL hambook?
How can you ground a j-pole without disruption in functionality?
I need a little ground advice as a new HF ham, just got my general. I want a good ground in my shack, but my problem is location. The nearest spot I can push a grounding rod is 30 ft from the rig. Would there be a problem drilling a hole though patio concrete outside the shack window and put the rod through to earth? Thanks to all who respond.
Scott Gist no issue with drilling a hole as long as you can get 6-7 feet of the rod into the ground below the concrete. 73
Thanks> will do
I don't recommend an indoor ground rod. Lightning wants the best ground it can find. You don't want it in there with you!🤔😆👍👁👁🇺🇸
Dx engineering says not to use it outdoors due to water entering the cable like a sponge
Your tower ground rods need to be 6-9" away from the concrete, not against the concrete or in the concrete when poured.
Translation help:
ua-cam.com/users/timedtext_cs_panel?c=UCN5crzsUHII4BpDkBozCcYQ&tab=2
Ok here my opinion on single point ground. The first schematic was ok. There is no problem doing like that at all. Single point ground is not one ground rod and that it. No Sir! Single point ground is when you take all your equipment on the shack and grounded like you had it and then bond that ground rod to your main rod in house this includes the tower rods etc. All to one rod which is your main ground rod to the house. Analyze this and you will get it right away. Hope this helps.
good stuff - thanks for sharing. I used to have the single copper rod inside the shack (that you describe) and have had ground loop issues. I will be replacing that w/ the "right" way. We'll see how that works out for me. God Bless. N0AGI. 73s N0AGI.com/
Thanks and 73.
Why can’t anyone do just a 5 min video on grounding and bonding 🤷♂️
I found this technic how to ground if you have a long run to the ground rod. Look at the bottom of this link, "alternative 2". The RF suppressor. kc.flexradio.com/knowledgebasearticle50426.aspx
knikk77 Yes I use those diagrams in one of my other videos. 73
Amazing how many views this particular video has. My ground is now complete. I ran #4 ground wire from the ground rod outside the shack over to the tower ground rods; then from the tower over to the mains house ground rod.
Greg, what happens with RF is every piece of equipment will have TWO ground paths if you wire it up as in the first picture. By using a single point ground you eliminate separate ground paths which can get back into the radio, microphone, or attached computer. This is called a ground loop which can cause your equipment to misbehave, or even shut off like mine did.
You can also get feedback into the microphone every time you key up the transmitter.
Since this video I have upgraded the grounding by running braid to a single point behind the desk (from all the equipment--- and then running from there directly to the ground rod outside. I also improved the pass through panel grounding by replacing the ground wire with 1 inch copper strap.
Joe Lalumia good move. ONE path to ground is the boss. A single point. No buss bars. Otherwise it's loop city.
Thank you for taking the time to post this important information. Is it possible to make this "choke balun" directly from the coax that attaches to the transceiver by making the circular loops, providing there is some additional length in the coax? Thanks again...
Yes you can make 8 to 10 loops of coax and or wrap about 18 ft of coax tightly around a 5 inch piece of pvc. You can also use a foot long run of clip on ferrite magnets mix 41 to choke out common mode currents. 73
Thank you Joe! 73 DE K5VPC, Jorge, Spring, TX
you are welcome, 73
Joe, in this video, in the diagram showing the correct "star" ground, I see "line isolators" in the coax between pieces of equipment. What are these? How do I construct them? Thanks and 73, Rich, WB2GXM
You can buy these or make them. Just google "choke Balun" or "line isolator ham radio". In my station I did not install the line isolators between the equipment. However I do have a line isolator outside the shack window on the QSO King end fed wire antenna. Here is a link to a commercial one- www.ebay.com/itm/Line-Isolator-Rated-1500-watts-stops-RFI-small-/141209547404?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item20e0beb28c
You can make one by putting ferrite magnets around a piece of coax.
Great video. I want to ground my vertical antenna. How far should the ground rod be from the concrete slab that's in the ground. Also, is one ground rod sufficient or will I need to install more rods and if so, how far apart should each rod be from each other. Also, I will be installing a window cable pass-through and will be putting a ground rod outside of my window about 4 feet down from the window. Should I use copper braid to connect the ground rod to the window pass-through plate or will a solid copper wire work fine. Also; in the shack, should I use copper braid strips, attached to each piece of equipment to attach it straight to the inside ground lug located on my window pass-through?
The braid will work better than wire copper strap is even better. Both have more ground surface area than wire. My tower had 1, 8ft ground rod attached to each tower leg. I put the rods about 1 foot away from the concrete and all 3 rods were connected underground a few inches with #6 bare wire in a "halo" around the concrete. 73
I use a single point ground inside the shack with a copper strap 1/2 inch from the single point to the ground rod outside the shack window.
Thanks for the quick reply. I will be using a window pass through option. So there is a wingnut screw on the inside to connect a ground wire too. Should I use the 1/2" copper braid coming out of all my equipment and connect to the window face plate ground screw and then use another braid on the outside to go straight to the ground rod or just use a solid copper wire from inside to the window face plate and wire or braid from the outside plate to the ground rod?
@@JoeLalumia Thanks for quick reply!
@@BoboAthanassion I have the same passthrough. In my case I ran the braid directly from thr single point inside the shack UNDER the passthrough and directly to the ground rod. Then I ran a second piece from the OUTSIDE wing nut to the ground rod to ground the shields of the coax cables.
Did I understand you correctly .. can i just take the braid from my radio , the braid from power source , go from power supply direct to ground ? Im a ham returning to my hobby ,, guess what i am asking .. braid from radio , braid from power supply , both going to my controller(rotor control) from controller , direct to ground ? in advance , thanks for your help / time ..
+Brian Ard
Yes you can, from a single point somewhere behind the radio equipment.
Attribution is given to www.radioworks.com for their excellent article on grounding located at this URL:
www.radioworks.com/nbgnd.html
Another excellent discussion can be found at this URL:
www.bwcelectronics.com/articles/WP30A190.pdf
73,
TelescopeMan
i know it is quite off topic but do anyone know a good website to stream newly released movies online ?
@Alejandro Wesson I use Flixzone. You can find it by googling =)
@Alexzander Zavier Yup, I've been using Flixzone for months myself =)
@Alexzander Zavier Thank you, I signed up and it seems like a nice service :) I appreciate it!
@Alejandro Wesson you are welcome =)
Figures 2 and 5 are electrically the same except the "line isolators" between equipment in figure 5. You said nothing about them that I recall. Had these "isolators" been installed in figure 2 the same result would be achieved = broken ground loop potential. What am I missing?
had the exact same problem here. I tied it to tuner and solved problem
Great, yes the tuner needed a good RF ground. 73
Figure 2 (with the ground loops) is the same as the ARRL book says you should RF ground. What should i do? My radios are up in the second floor...
knikk77
Suggest you not ground or install a ground "mesh" on the floor of the shack. You can put a carpet over it so it's not visible. However many amateurs operate successfully without grounding. Try to eliminate any common mode currents and be sure the equipment is electric grounded using a 3 prong wall plug. Unplug everything during lightning.
knikk77, yes I was also surprised that the "bad" ground is also shown in the ARRL book as the way to do it! :) What can I say ? When I setup my shack that way I had lots of RFI. Once I went to a single point ground I have had no issues with RFI. Remember the type of antenna can contribute to RFI especially if it is near the actual equipment. Try to use a resonant dipole with a choke balun outside the shack usually mounted very near the actual antenna. This may help you eliminate RFI in an ungrounded ham shack up on the second floor.
And-Or read about a wire mesh on the floor of the shack with all the grounds on the equipment connected to the mesh on the floor. This will equalize any differential currents and ground loops between the pieces of equipment.
Help support this channel. Visit my product recommendation web site and use the links there to buy. My Marketing site has Amazon Associate and Ebay Partner links plus other videos and articles by me that you may NOT have discovered. Thanks for your support.
www.joelalumia.wixsite.com/telescopeman
Excellent grounding podcast by "The Doctor" at the ARRL- here is the link:
www.blubrry.com/arrl_the_doctor_is_in/21811067/grounding/
Good information, but should be done in half the time or less.
I noticed at around 12:45 in the video it appears you soldered the copper ground strap to the ground rod.... I can tell you from experience solder with not hold up to a lightning strike. It does however melt and fly everywhere leaving you unprotected. IF you used a cadweld system all is well.
Steve Mazz no it's clamped
Brade is not a good radio ground, It's a good electrical ground,.. Flat strap copper is the prefered radio ground material, thats what we use in the broadcast & cellular industry,
The gounding he discribs is great for electro static conditions. Radio grounds require a solid type material and all connections must be welded, a fluid connection if you will. Brade has resistance to radio frequencies. Hope this helps...
Take a look at the "tower" construction videos--- I do have copper strap there and also now on the pass-through panel grounding the shields of the coax, along with an Alpha Delta lightning arrest on the coax.
However -- again- once I used the braid instead of wire I have experience no more RF in the shack even when using my amplifier. The Flex SDR radio and the Icom 7000 both work perfectly. Additionally my Heil PR781 microphone does not have RF interfering with the audio signal. (single point ground on all the equipment)
73 and thanks for your comments.
Here a good example of how grounding, counterpoises or radials can affect antenna performances:
ua-cam.com/video/YYe_3bMz6wE/v-deo.html
Sorry, figure 2 and figure 5
This hobby seems too complicated.....
Not really-- you must however pass an FCC test to be licensed. Takes about 2 weeks of book studying. to pass the Technician test-- and probably another 3 weeks on top of that to pass the General test.