I don't find that people have a problem with the wrath of God if that wrath doesn't culminate in eternal conscious torment for some number of people. It also seems to be really important that your depiction of God's wrath doesn't remind anyone of their abusive parent. "I love you and I'm doing this for your own good" is something many abused people have heard.
What Alisa said at 16:00 about the illness and people not wanting healing, is so true. My husband and his brother were both in law enforcement (recently left). They both used to say about the people they dealt with, “When people roll around in their ‘poo’ long enough, they begin to like the scent of it.” Coming from these two Christian cops, they saw it from a different perspective than unbelievers did.
Hell is one of those aspects of Christianity that MOST leads apologists to be dishonest. They start off with "Don't you think people who are murderers and rapists and sex traffickers should get punished?" And then they point to Hell and say "God's justice will get them in the end". And yet, when you start digging deeper, they then tell you that EVERYBODY who isn't a Christian...even if they led a good life, were moral and kind and compassionate...those people too go to Hell and "deserve it" simply because they didn't believe in Jesus. So basically, an average ordinary decent person is "just as sinful" as a murderer or rapist. And that 90 year old Mrs. Liebowitz down the street, who brought soup to sick people in the neighborhood or baked cookies for the kids or organized food drives for the poor....she is going to the same place Adolf Hitler did.
I thank God for Alisa and her excellent ministry. She is obviously gifted by God and God brought her through some difficult experiences all to enable her to effectively help others, especially in the area of the dangers of progressive Christianity (but other areas also). However, when it comes to the specific topic of hell, I feel that her explanations are always lacking. This is because she is (imho) attempting to defend and explain a view of hell that is traditional, but not biblical - namely, eternal torment (or it's slightly milder, air-conditioned version, eternal quarantine in a sad, lonely place). The Bible actually teaches conditional immortality. When it comes to what will happen to the unsaved it teaches that God will destroy their souls and bodies in hell (Matthew 10:28), that they will perish (John 3:16), and be turned to ashes (2 Peter 2:6). May God bless Alisa and other Christian apologists and may He help more of them to see the doctrine of conditional immortality in the Bible.
I totally agree with you Mark Corbett and would encourage anyone to check out this brother's videos on UA-cam. He is very thorough and somewhat of an expert on this topic.
Yes, absolutely agree. The reality of hell is of utmost importance. However, growing up in church I was taught the eternal torment view by default as the only valid view. However, after taking the time to review the material from the Rethinking Hell website and UA-cam channel, along with videos from yourself, I found that eternal torment is actually just a set of lenses we bring to interpretating Scripture, and that once I was able to take these lenses off through patient study and try on different lenses, overall I found conditional immortality (annihilationism) to be more biblical.
Seconded (or thirded as the case may be). Scripture really opened up to me once I saw that the idea of a disembodied heaven and hell (as opposed to the new Jerusalem and lake of fire) weren't actually taught in Scripture. It answered several questions I had, among these were questions about where Lazarus and Jairus' Daughter were in the interim time between their death and Jesus raising them, why the Bible refers to death as "falling asleep", why Adam and Eve seemed to still be able to become immortal after they sinned (lest they reach out their hand and take and eat of the tree of life and live forever).
I am not 100% sure which view is correct but I find that there are so many passages that describe the fate of the wicked at final judgement as destruction and death. God specifically didn’t want humankind to be able to have eternal life in a sinful state which is why he cut Adam and Eve off from the tree of life lest they eat it and live forever. Only through Jesus can we have access to the tree of life and live forever in a redeemed resurrection.
@@meganbohun1483 I've recently come to believe that this act of excluding Adam and Eve from the garden was a great grace on the part of God. His exclusion from the garden was so that they wouldn't live forever in a miserable and sinful state. By excluding them, he was ensuring they might be redeemed and NOT live in eternal torment.
I am so exited to watch this. I attend church with Josh while he pastored at Imago Dei in Portland and had the privilege to attend one of his classes. Can’t wait to hear from him on this plate form. Good to see you Josh!
I found ryan through a perfect quote that was written in the introduction to a video on king saul..read what Butler said, its just perfect..: “If we harden our hearts toward His presence today, why would we expect tomorrow to be different?”
Good discussion here. I do want to encourage people to read Paradise Lost, though as well. Even after reading the Bible several times through, I noticed there were some subtle corrections I needed to make that I had drawn from Milton rather than scripture
This was a good discussion with many good points but the real problem is people do not understand that humans are not immortal. God only is immortal. At the 2nd coming those who love God will put on immortality. 1 Cor. 15But the wicked will be consumed. Mal4.
*Colossians 1:20* - and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace by the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on earth or those in the heavens.
Hi Alisa, it would be great if you would invite Chris Date or Mark Corbett on your show. They believe in conditional immortality, and because of that in annihilation of the unbelievers ( after they have received a righteous judgment and punishment for their sins). I have changed my mind from believing in eternal conscious torment to this view. . Not because it's more pleasant ( although it is) to believe this but because it's what the bible is teaching. Greetings and blessings from the Netherlands.
@@mediocreman561 The eternal consequence is eternal death. . There will be a judgment and punishment as I said, according to the sins that a person has committed, righteous and just. Not the same for everyone. The wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal conscious torment in hell. John 3:16 doesn't speak about some kind of eternal life in a fiery place called hell, but it says: will perish, which means will be totally destroyed.
@@margreethakkerman4026 Eternal death is no different from no consequences. Might as well sin all you want because there is nothing to punish the sins committed. I speak and read the Koine Greek and can tell when the translation uses a bias within it because of the mood of the times so I can confidently say that the Greek word used in John 3:15 & 16 for perish means eternal misery in hell. How do we know this? Because Paul makes an argument to this very fact in 1 Corinthians 15:13-18. And the very same word is used in 1 Corinthians 15:18. Which, if the dead in sin do not rise again the resurrection of Christ is worthless because in Christ we ALL, meaning the sinners and the righteous through Christ, will be ALIVE (1 Corinthians 15:22) because of his resurrection. And if the sinners are made to be alive for a judgment and then be put back to death it still makes the whole resurrection, and ministry of Christ fruitless and we can all eat and drink for tomorrow we die, as the scripture says.
@@margreethakkerman4026 I too, am in Christ. If there is a name of a sect to be called in following Christ, then Biblically, it would be "the way" as it is called in Acts 9:2,; 19:9, 23; 22:4; 24:14. Because Christianity was named by the gentiles (Acts 11:26) and anyone who labels their faith on with any other sect or denomination is still practicing a gentile tradition.
I always want to give Glory to my Heavenly Father God no matter the subject or if I totally agree or disagree with the presentation being presented. I like to comment on what I like and dislike on this subject. I like the part that was discussed about if you looked at sin like a disease did everyone had and you look at Jesus hymn Shin is blowing across and repenting and accepting him and being born again as the Cure of that disease. I think I can use this illustration in my preaching and teaching to help people understand God doesn't send anyone to hell they go there by choice because they deny the Cure they reject Jesus the only solution that they can be saved from sin and that disease. So I like that illustration to help somebody understand the people go to hell because they choose to by denying the only way to escape hell and which is through Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior who paid the price for our sin. There are a lot of folks gospels out there now called another gospel. And one of the saddest one is the Gospel of prosperity. Because they take scriptures that are true and twists for self-gratification and they basically said Jesus came so you can be rich and wealthy and healthy. They Don't Preach repentance or any transformation of being born again which is a must. And they say all you have to do is say a little prayer and that's your ticket to heaven. No without repentance there is no salvation without being born again there is no seen the kingdom of God and a really furiates me the disease known preachers preach this garbage of Lies
Preface: I haven't watched the video. The word 'hell' comes from the Norse concept of Hel, which is equivalent to the Biblical Hades/Sheol (Greek/Hebrew respectively). This is the underworld-a holding place for the dead before judgment. Before the atonement of Jesus, there was a place in Sheol that was reserved for the righteous that was like Paradise. The only reason this existed was because the necessary atonement had not yet been purchased on the cross. When Jesus died and snatched the keys to Hades, He led the righteous from that realm to enjoy His presence in heaven. Now, the only inhabitants of Sheol are those who are unredeemed and await final judgment in the lake of fire, which a different place-Gehenna. Jesus used this physical place to make an analogy to how the lake of fire will be: a dump of refuse that continuously burns. Unfortunately, the Christian Church has lumped Sheol in with Gehenna and translated it in our English Bibles to 'hell'. That doesn't make it a mythological place-just a word that early English speakers would have been familiar with.
Peter stated in Acts that David was _still_ in his grave waiting for the resurrection. Matter fact, Heb. 11 states at the end that all of the faithful ppl who died before Christ have _not_ received their rewards yet. The idea that Jesus took the faithful out of the grave and took them to Heaven with Him is equally as silly as traditional Christianity's view of hell.
I pray that everyone has the opportunity to watch the following videos. Before we can understand what the bible teaches about "hell", we have to understand the nature of man....See video links below. Love this channel!
What are we saved from? we are saved from “wrath,” that is, from God’s judgment of sin (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9). Our sin has separated us from God, and the consequence of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Biblical salvation refers to our deliverance from the consequence of sin and therefore involves the removal of sin. We are saved from both the power and penalty of sin. The realities of eternal damnation, eternal hell, and eternal punishment are frightening and disturbing. But it is good that we might, indeed, be terrified. While this may sound grim, there is good news. God loves us (John 3:16) and wants us to be saved from hell (2 Peter 3:9). But because God is also just and righteous, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished. Someone has to pay for it. In His great mercy and love, God provided His own payment for our sin. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross for us. Jesus’ death was an infinite death because He is the infinite God/man, paying our infinite sin debt, so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). If we confess our sin and place our faith in Christ, asking for God’s forgiveness based on Christ’s sacrifice, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. God loved us so much that He provided the means for our salvation, but if we reject His gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.
I think you are on to something regarding God’s ultimate purpose with judgment being to protect us from those who sin, hurt and destroy. Your analogies were hell as a quarantine or of a Tupperware holding sinners. I do see the purpose of God’s final judgment as the same in purpose and power. However, take a deeper look. The examples in the Bible in which God poured his wrath out to accomplish this purpose on earth in the past like the flood, or God extending eternal fire to burn up Sodom and Gomorrah: the events results in the destruction of the sinners. It wiped them out. In 2 Peter we are told these are examples of what is going to happen to the ungodly at final judgment. Do you think it is possible for God to accomplish the same thing by destroying the unjust? Are we sure sinners are inherently immortal and able to survive the cup of God’s wrath poured out on them at future final judgment? If so, and sinners are kept in a state of spiritual death but some form of life in a quarantine Tupperware for all eternity how can we as Christians affirm that “the last enemy to be destroyed is death?”
Not sure if I missed it and, I’m sorry if I did. So I was taught that hell ( the punishment for unrepentant sin ) is “never having existed “ the opposite to eternal life is never having existed. So there will be no memory of someone who does not choose Jesus.
Another concept is, that the captivity in Babylon was also protection from the pagan nations. Assyria, had already destroyed the Northern Kingdom (the 10 lost tribes), after they broke away from the Southern Kingdom, the House of Judah. GOD preserved the House of Judah through Babylon, and people like Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Shadrach, Meshach,Abednego, as well as Esther and the Israelite's who were in Persia at the time. Sometimes, what we see as GOD's wrath, is really GOD's divine protection.
@@sanjeevgig8918 Only the Christian, Triune God is real. The Muslim Hell is false. Hindus do not have a concept of Hell. In Hinduism one is reincarnated until becoming good enough to be released becoming part of the all and cease to exist as an individual. I know where I will go when I die.
m,People don't realize how vile they are. If people understood their vile, sinfulness and the Holliness of God, it seems they would agree they must be separated and could never be able to stand in the presence of God and wouldn't want to. Who would even ask to see their own depravity through the eyes of God or Justice. Indeed, a very /****-brave sole
Who deserves to be in hell forever suffering? Satan! But will he? Ezekiel 28:18 (KJV) Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Alisa, good presentation of the set behind you and your own self. My struggle with the Christian concept is that I have difficulties relating to all the different factions that have reinterpreted the scriptures, Cherry pick to soothe their discomforts with part of the Bible, and the real awful injustices that have been perpetrated on my black peoples all over the world in the name of Christianity, as well as in the name of my Islam. I find it really impossible to endorse the continuance of Christian domination over black, because it feels like I would be signaling Christian nationalist or Christian racist groups to continue to harm black people. That is a real huge struggle for me, and I continue to view the Christian idea as a physical and mental threat to my people all over the world. Perhaps you have some thoughts to share.
The Gospel explained through scripture only Acts 13:38-39KJB 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Romans 1:18-20KJB 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:32KJB 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Romans 2:5KJB 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Romans 2:16KJB 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 3:10-12KJB 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 3:19-26KJB 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 4:5KJB 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 5:1-2KJB 1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:8-11KJB 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4KJB 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Hell No, No Hell? Why in the hell are we so invested in believing there is a hell? One of the hardest truths for some Christians is to accept that there is no hell. Why do they fight so hard to believe in a God that would burn us?
God doesn’t delight in injustice but rejoice with the truth. God is love and loves His enemies. Hell slanders the character of God, diminishes God’s plan for humanity, and is the biggest injustice there is (being eternally consciously tormented for finite sins).
@@SillyChickens222 "God is love and loves His enemies." Didn't this loving god command the SLAUGHTER of Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:3) Midianites (Numbers 31:15-18) Jabesh-Gilead (Judges 21:10-11) Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites (Deuteronomy 20:16-18) ? An Omnipotent god could accomplish its goals without slaughter unless slaughter is the goal.
@@sanjeevgig8918this loving God also sent His Son to die for our sins so we aren’t separated from God by our death. What happened to Jesus was horrible but God used it for good. That’s what most people won’t get past that God is the creator of good and evil but He uses it all for His purposes. His ways are beyond our ways and He sees everything from beginning to end. I was molested by my dad as a child. I get angry with God and wonder why He put me through that as a child. And I think about all the other children suffering right now too. But I know we live in a fallen world where we have to know evil in order to be thankful for the good. Only God can impart faith and lead one to repentance. Before that no one is seeking God and all are locked up in stubbornness. The only reason why I can see God’s truth is bc He opened my eyes to it 💗 He will do the same for all men one day too!
Is Christianity really that ignorant of the Scriptural basics in order to bring this up as a topic? I mean, I know that the majority of Christendom is neck deep lost in pastoral worship and dispensational eschatological ideology, but hell being a myth is kind of too much.
Alisa's ministry makes a point to counter the claims that are turning up in progressive Christianity and the deconstruction movement. A Christian not caught up in these ideologies may not have any issue with the reality of hell, but progressives and deconstructioners very much do.
@@truebabies I understand what you are saying. But from my experience in apologetics and the faith, it does nothing conclusive within our faith except further divide the brethren and help demonize each other because these heretical beliefs are usually brought in by prominent, credentialed, well trained, and educated people within the faith instead of nonbelievers. Although, I understand why she is doing this, I also know that we, the brethren, forget that the work of nurturing the growing believer, as well as the grown mature believer in the faith is done by the milk of the Word, which is able to rebuke, teach, and edify our mutual faith by the Holy Spirit no matter how hard we try to do so. Jesus did say that let the blind leaders lead the blind into the same pit, so preach Christ crucified and let the Lord do His work. But that is just my two cents worth.
Condemnation is entirely biblical, but traditional Christianity's idea of hell is literally a myth. Like most of its other traditions and beliefs, traditional Christianity's view of hell was appropriated from heathen religions and given a Christian coat.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 The heathen religions didn't have a punishment for the afterlife. They believed that the soul was destroyed, or disintegrated into the Earth. They actually adopted that belief from the Jewish one because of the Jewish scriptures being copied into the Greek.
When God proclaimed His identity was LOVE, that set in place a paradigm or a filter, through which all of His actions are framed. For all the extent of His sovereignty, none of His conclusions for any life can be outside of being an act of love. Is eternal torment an act of love for the lost? Clearly not. Is denial of immortality, or extermination of the lost, an act of love? Clearly not. Would a good Father always make a way to reconcile ALL people to Himself, that none should perish, be an act of love? Assuredly YES! We can discern scripture in many different ways, but no matter what that is, it must conclude in being a reflection of God's identity.... LOVE. That means even His wrath, anger, hatred, and justice are all under the paradigm of love. Amen.
"...we want freedom from God and sometimes God's greatest judgement is giving us what we want" IS what informs me as I go about my daily life or as I approach the throne in prayer or when I share the gospel with the precious idiotic unbelievers my Creator keeps dropping off on the doorstep. Try to explain the joy and gratitude exploding inside me as He keeps making freedom from self possible, day after day after day for decades? Wow, I ask and He rescues but not because I deserve it; Jesus Christ purchased this freedom because He loves me. Maybe a person has to actually experience the spiritual intimacy grace affords before they can understand God can do whatever the hell He wants about Hell whether we like it or not.
I am new to your channel... I saw you video in response to the Asbury "revival" to which I agree and forwarded it to many who are watching as if it is something from God.. I am now watching this video and wanted to point our a major correction right off the bat.. and I will add to this post after the video ends.. But @ 4:15 you say that "God sends people to hell".. It is clear that God does not send people to hell and in fact He states that He created it for the angels (Matthew 25:41) and that He desires that no person should perish. Therefore, it is conclusive that only the individual can send them self to hell. But as the video just started I am certain your information and discussion will be of most importance for all who watch it.
@@truncated7644 Romans 10:17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Was it your ear that gave you faith? The Word of God, which is given through the Bible, declares The Good News > Salvation. So then, did the Bible save you? And if so, is it then the Bible which delivers you to heaven?
@@truncated7644 Yes! If you don't believe the Bible why bother asking a question about it. Put another way, do you often ask questions about things you do not believe. (rhetoric)...
Ghenna is going to be where the lake of fire will be when God/Yeshua judges. Not sure why they used Hell/Hades for translation. It did morph into a Greek mindset as people think of Dantes inferno. A place you go when you die. I think the 1st official church-roman catholic church may have started this syncretism (Starting with possibly Constantine) Leviticus, etc talks about being cut off for sin which will one day be a permanent thing. Psalm 1 is great understanding of everything.
Alisa, I'd be carefully studying recent John Cooper/Michael Brown stuff before I'd bring him back on if I were you, he's become a worry that lad at least imo.
In the Bible, Jesus talks more about hell than anyone. This gets my attention. Didn't our Christian doctrine of hell start with Jesus? Anyway, knowing this show we will get some Bible on the subject.
Traditional Christianity's view of condemnation did not start with Christ, as He reinforced what prophets taught about the condemned being _completely destroyed_ . The death penalty that was carried out under the Sinai Covenant was a type of the second and more permanent death that is mentioned in Rev. 2 and 20.
First of all, it sounds like Hell, as a word, literally derives from Norse, so if that is all Alisa was asking, the answer is yes. But wow, for such an important topic, the fact that humans have been on earth for 200,000 years and God only provides this detailed knowledge about it in the most recent 1% of that time doesn't sound very loving.Or reasonable. Or true.
Jesus when he spoke of hell as final punishment was translated from the word gehena a.k.a the valley of hinnom in which God nicknamed "the valley of slaughter." because that was the nature of his justice over the wicked who sacrificed their children in Gehena. How that depicts eternal torment is beyond me. The wages of sin is DEATH (Apollumi: Utterly kill, Slay). A state in which you cannot sin. Objectively Jesus was not speaking of a fiery underworld. Gehena is a real place that Jesus used as refference that the Jewish people would know of namely from the book of Jeremiah. Its about time the church wakes up and not believe in gimmicky teachings.
@@Alan-tjj The Bible only speaks of complete obliteration/annihilation. Eternal punishment is speaking of the result being permanent, not continuous burning. The lake of fire is the way by which the second death occurs for the resurrected unbelievers. Death means death, not living forever in torment. Resurrected flesh can't burn forever.
@Katherine B revelation 14: 10 your not listening.. To be absent from the body is to be with the Lord.. christians only die once..2nd death is a judgment after your first death ..for unbelievers
"And I will be to her a wall of fire all around, declares the Lord, and I will be the glory in her midst." Zechariah 2:5 "In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: “We have a strong city; he sets up salvation as walls and bulwarks." Isaiah 26:1 "Violence shall no more be heard in your land, devastation or destruction within your borders; you shall call your walls Salvation, and your gates Praise." Isaiah 60:18
Disappointed with this video, I’ll have to say. And I never comment but I felt like I had to. It was confusing and I wasn’t sure where it was going.. I don’t find your other videos to be like this one. Your guest and his videos on his UA-cam channel remind me of podcasts like, The Bible is for normal people, and teachers like Pete Enns. Thoughts like this don’t add up and aren’t biblical.
The King James Bible is the only translation that has the word Hell in it I think 55× the KJV is the inspired, pure, preserved, infalliable word of God. ❤️
Also 17 times in the English Standard Version, 15 times in the New American Standard Version, and 20 times in the Revised Standard Version. You're probably right in that the KJV has the most occurrences of hell translated as "hell."
The Gospel explained through scripture only Acts 13:38-39KJB 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Romans 1:18-20KJB 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:32KJB 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Romans 2:5KJB 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Romans 2:16KJB 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 3:10-12KJB 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 3:19-26KJB 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 4:5KJB 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 5:1-2KJB 1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:8-11KJB 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4KJB 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Belief in different gods, angels, demons and life everlasting in heaven or hell are all brain based reactions to not knowing. Thousands of years of endless discussions are proof that no one knows.
And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. [Luke 8] He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment. [Luke 16]
You mention in the beginning that God will reconcile all things on heaven and earth, and that he'll make all things new. Then you end attacking universalism which is the only way those statements are true. I mean, how exactly does God swallow up death in victory with the vast majority of humanity in eternal death?
Xtianity: CHOOSE your own interpretation religion. 2000 YEARS later, they are just making crap up. LOL Mike Winger: No one is actually in HELL right now. C S Lewis: The doors of HELL are locked on the inside. Calvinists: Only the elect are saved. the rest are going to HELL. Universalist: No one is going to HELL forever.
There has to be a place for those people that are hated that don't suffer during their lives. That place is hell. Hell is a place made up by people who don't forgive. God's wrath comes from those who won't let go of their own anger.
Jesus: "let me in" Me: "why?" Jesus: "to protect you" Me: "from what?" Jesus: "from what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in!" The Italian MAFIA uses the same logic. LOL
That is correct, our language is used to manipulate, borrowed off all the others. Regardless, the parables of hell which is when it’s used refers to the burning of desire, emotions! They only occur NOW, hence the kingdom is within you! In other words you cannot enter the kingdom which is peace love rest, if you are burning with anger, hate, bitterness, guilt, fear! Is that simple enough for your carnal mind? The higher and lower thoughts and emotions, energy’s!
@@colinplank it is what it’s saying!! Also Gehenna is the dead! But not literal dead. To be carnally minded is death! So that’s why Jesus spoke to the pharassiees harshly to say that they are in their carnal minds taking the Old Testament literal so the spirit is dead. It’s not life. That’s why he called them white washed tombs! Inside they are dead ( just carnal, lower nature, earth). It is all parable, John writes Jesus did not open his mouth without a parable. Lazarus is an parable, because it’s all a story of within hence the statement the kingdom is within you! Meaning the Old Testament writings of all these kingdoms and rulers and people are just a symbol of your story! Jacob is a story of you, genesis is you, Abraham is you Moses! It is the spirit of the story not the letter Paul tells you! It is the earth, then the water ( baptism) of truth not water, then rising to the air meeting the Christ within yourself who baptises with fire ( spirit). God is a consuming fire! Not to hurt you but to burn away the lies and suffering of the mind! It’s beautiful because God is love. Does not harm you and has never left you! Do you not know the spirit of God dwells in YOU? ( Paul asks). Peace
@@terrypaul7706 I'm not trying to be mean when I say this, but you're making all kinds of assertions without giving any evidence. The assertions you've made about what the Bible means are false. Did someone tell you all this? How do they know what Jesus meant or what Gehenna really means when these secret meanings are not recorded? I encourage you to read the gospels yourself as though you're just a regular person who doesn't know much about Jesus or Christianity. That's the audience that the Gospel writers had in mind. It is not a complicated message and the meaning becomes clear when you read it without any presuppositions (Christian or otherwise). I could be convinced of your position if you can show where specifically these claims are made in Scripture rather than just insisting that they are.
@@colinplank I gave you scripture and so you are worshipping a book when you are the book of life! It is YOUR carnal mind deceiving YOU now! How do I know? Because the bible is the living word yeah? Well are you living? Do you know the name of God? This idol book tells you but you don’t remember because you are you using your carnal mind not spirit! I AM is the name of God Moses states! Do you say I AM? Is it the spirit or your ego saying it? The ego which is an enemy of God meaning it cannot know God is Satan which means adversary! The beast. The earth carnal low in you! That’s why it says esau was red not literal but earthy, lower, red is the low energy hence the devil depicted red. Emotions, Moses parted the Red Sea! The emotions must part to get to the promised land,
@Martin my children disobeyed me, should I torture them when they literally didn't fully understand why I had rules for them? In your worldview, God is complete in himself, lacking nothing and can't be diminished. What is there to pay him?
I don't find that people have a problem with the wrath of God if that wrath doesn't culminate in eternal conscious torment for some number of people. It also seems to be really important that your depiction of God's wrath doesn't remind anyone of their abusive parent. "I love you and I'm doing this for your own good" is something many abused people have heard.
What Alisa said at 16:00 about the illness and people not wanting healing, is so true.
My husband and his brother were both in law enforcement (recently left).
They both used to say about the people they dealt with, “When people roll around in their ‘poo’ long enough, they begin to like the scent of it.”
Coming from these two Christian cops, they saw it from a different perspective than unbelievers did.
Hell is one of those aspects of Christianity that MOST leads apologists to be dishonest. They start off with "Don't you think people who are murderers and rapists and sex traffickers should get punished?" And then they point to Hell and say "God's justice will get them in the end". And yet, when you start digging deeper, they then tell you that EVERYBODY who isn't a Christian...even if they led a good life, were moral and kind and compassionate...those people too go to Hell and "deserve it" simply because they didn't believe in Jesus. So basically, an average ordinary decent person is "just as sinful" as a murderer or rapist. And that 90 year old Mrs. Liebowitz down the street, who brought soup to sick people in the neighborhood or baked cookies for the kids or organized food drives for the poor....she is going to the same place Adolf Hitler did.
I thank God for Alisa and her excellent ministry. She is obviously gifted by God and God brought her through some difficult experiences all to enable her to effectively help others, especially in the area of the dangers of progressive Christianity (but other areas also). However, when it comes to the specific topic of hell, I feel that her explanations are always lacking. This is because she is (imho) attempting to defend and explain a view of hell that is traditional, but not biblical - namely, eternal torment (or it's slightly milder, air-conditioned version, eternal quarantine in a sad, lonely place). The Bible actually teaches conditional immortality. When it comes to what will happen to the unsaved it teaches that God will destroy their souls and bodies in hell (Matthew 10:28), that they will perish (John 3:16), and be turned to ashes (2 Peter 2:6). May God bless Alisa and other Christian apologists and may He help more of them to see the doctrine of conditional immortality in the Bible.
I totally agree with you Mark Corbett and would encourage anyone to check out this brother's videos on UA-cam. He is very thorough and somewhat of an expert on this topic.
Yes, absolutely agree. The reality of hell is of utmost importance. However, growing up in church I was taught the eternal torment view by default as the only valid view. However, after taking the time to review the material from the Rethinking Hell website and UA-cam channel, along with videos from yourself, I found that eternal torment is actually just a set of lenses we bring to interpretating Scripture, and that once I was able to take these lenses off through patient study and try on different lenses, overall I found conditional immortality (annihilationism) to be more biblical.
Seconded (or thirded as the case may be). Scripture really opened up to me once I saw that the idea of a disembodied heaven and hell (as opposed to the new Jerusalem and lake of fire) weren't actually taught in Scripture. It answered several questions I had, among these were questions about where Lazarus and Jairus' Daughter were in the interim time between their death and Jesus raising them, why the Bible refers to death as "falling asleep", why Adam and Eve seemed to still be able to become immortal after they sinned (lest they reach out their hand and take and eat of the tree of life and live forever).
I am not 100% sure which view is correct but I find that there are so many passages that describe the fate of the wicked at final judgement as destruction and death. God specifically didn’t want humankind to be able to have eternal life in a sinful state which is why he cut Adam and Eve off from the tree of life lest they eat it and live forever. Only through Jesus can we have access to the tree of life and live forever in a redeemed resurrection.
@@meganbohun1483 I've recently come to believe that this act of excluding Adam and Eve from the garden was a great grace on the part of God. His exclusion from the garden was so that they wouldn't live forever in a miserable and sinful state. By excluding them, he was ensuring they might be redeemed and NOT live in eternal torment.
I am so exited to watch this. I attend church with Josh while he pastored at Imago Dei in Portland and had the privilege to attend one of his classes. Can’t wait to hear from him on this plate form. Good to see you Josh!
I found ryan through a perfect quote that was written in the introduction to a video on king saul..read what Butler said, its just perfect..:
“If we harden our hearts toward His presence today, why would we expect tomorrow to be different?”
Good discussion here. I do want to encourage people to read Paradise Lost, though as well. Even after reading the Bible several times through, I noticed there were some subtle corrections I needed to make that I had drawn from Milton rather than scripture
GOD DOES NOT “SEND” anyone to hell.
This was a good discussion with many good points but the real problem is people do not understand that humans are not immortal. God only is immortal. At the 2nd coming those who love God will put on immortality. 1 Cor. 15But the wicked will be consumed. Mal4.
Yes, amen sister! There are several theological problems with immortality of the soul doctrine.
*Colossians 1:20* - and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace by the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on earth or those in the heavens.
Hi Alisa, it would be great if you would invite Chris Date or Mark Corbett on your show. They believe in conditional immortality, and because of that in annihilation of the unbelievers ( after they have received a righteous judgment and punishment for their sins). I have changed my mind from believing in eternal conscious torment to this view. . Not because it's more pleasant ( although it is) to believe this but because it's what the bible is teaching. Greetings and blessings from the Netherlands.
So, then what is the point of not sinning then, if there is no eternal consequences for it? This teaching is from Jehovah Witnesses and is erroneous.
@@mediocreman561 The eternal consequence is eternal death. . There will be a judgment and punishment as I said, according to the sins that a person has committed, righteous and just. Not the same for everyone. The wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal conscious torment in hell.
John 3:16 doesn't speak about some kind of eternal life in a fiery place called hell, but it says: will perish, which means will be totally destroyed.
@@mediocreman561 And I am not a Jehovah Witness but an evangelical,( pentecostal) believer
@@margreethakkerman4026
Eternal death is no different from no consequences. Might as well sin all you want because there is nothing to punish the sins committed.
I speak and read the Koine Greek and can tell when the translation uses a bias within it because of the mood of the times so I can confidently say that the Greek word used in John 3:15 & 16 for perish means eternal misery in hell. How do we know this? Because Paul makes an argument to this very fact in 1 Corinthians 15:13-18. And the very same word is used in 1 Corinthians 15:18. Which, if the dead in sin do not rise again the resurrection of Christ is worthless because in Christ we ALL, meaning the sinners and the righteous through Christ, will be ALIVE (1 Corinthians 15:22) because of his resurrection. And if the sinners are made to be alive for a judgment and then be put back to death it still makes the whole resurrection, and ministry of Christ fruitless and we can all eat and drink for tomorrow we die, as the scripture says.
@@margreethakkerman4026
I too, am in Christ. If there is a name of a sect to be called in following Christ, then Biblically, it would be "the way" as it is called in Acts 9:2,; 19:9, 23; 22:4; 24:14. Because Christianity was named by the gentiles (Acts 11:26) and anyone who labels their faith on with any other sect or denomination is still practicing a gentile tradition.
Great to see Josh on the podcast!
Thank you for sharing truth.
Great conversation!! Loved it
I loved this conversation.
Josh provides very helpful insights. I also like his "Ancient Aliens" show. 😉
I always want to give Glory to my Heavenly Father God no matter the subject or if I totally agree or disagree with the presentation being presented.
I like to comment on what I like and dislike on this subject.
I like the part that was discussed about if you looked at sin like a disease did everyone had and you look at Jesus hymn Shin is blowing across and repenting and accepting him and being born again as the Cure of that disease. I think I can use this illustration in my preaching and teaching to help people understand God doesn't send anyone to hell they go there by choice because they deny the Cure they reject Jesus the only solution that they can be saved from sin and that disease. So I like that illustration to help somebody understand the people go to hell because they choose to by denying the only way to escape hell and which is through Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior who paid the price for our sin. There are a lot of folks gospels out there now called another gospel. And one of the saddest one is the Gospel of prosperity. Because they take scriptures that are true and twists for self-gratification and they basically said Jesus came so you can be rich and wealthy and healthy. They Don't Preach repentance or any transformation of being born again which is a must. And they say all you have to do is say a little prayer and that's your ticket to heaven. No without repentance there is no salvation without being born again there is no seen the kingdom of God and a really furiates me the disease known preachers preach this garbage of Lies
Please excuse the mistakes of talking into microphone
Hell is cruel and unusual punishment.
I for one am glad that the founders of our Nation did not base it on the Bible or the Christian religion.
Oh my...so cool that you are coming to my home church ⛪
Interesting conversation! Thanks!📖✝️🙏🏻❤️
Preface: I haven't watched the video. The word 'hell' comes from the Norse concept of Hel, which is equivalent to the Biblical Hades/Sheol (Greek/Hebrew respectively). This is the underworld-a holding place for the dead before judgment. Before the atonement of Jesus, there was a place in Sheol that was reserved for the righteous that was like Paradise. The only reason this existed was because the necessary atonement had not yet been purchased on the cross. When Jesus died and snatched the keys to Hades, He led the righteous from that realm to enjoy His presence in heaven. Now, the only inhabitants of Sheol are those who are unredeemed and await final judgment in the lake of fire, which a different place-Gehenna. Jesus used this physical place to make an analogy to how the lake of fire will be: a dump of refuse that continuously burns.
Unfortunately, the Christian Church has lumped Sheol in with Gehenna and translated it in our English Bibles to 'hell'. That doesn't make it a mythological place-just a word that early English speakers would have been familiar with.
Peter stated in Acts that David was _still_ in his grave waiting for the resurrection. Matter fact, Heb. 11 states at the end that all of the faithful ppl who died before Christ have _not_ received their rewards yet. The idea that Jesus took the faithful out of the grave and took them to Heaven with Him is equally as silly as traditional Christianity's view of hell.
Not in catholicism - we differentiate the two
I pray that everyone has the opportunity to watch the following videos. Before we can understand what the bible teaches about "hell", we have to understand the nature of man....See video links below. Love this channel!
What are we saved from? we are saved from “wrath,” that is, from God’s judgment of sin (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9). Our sin has separated us from God, and the consequence of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Biblical salvation refers to our deliverance from the consequence of sin and therefore involves the removal of sin. We are saved from both the power and penalty of sin.
The realities of eternal damnation, eternal hell, and eternal punishment are frightening and disturbing. But it is good that we might, indeed, be terrified. While this may sound grim, there is good news. God loves us (John 3:16) and wants us to be saved from hell (2 Peter 3:9). But because God is also just and righteous, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished. Someone has to pay for it. In His great mercy and love, God provided His own payment for our sin. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross for us. Jesus’ death was an infinite death because He is the infinite God/man, paying our infinite sin debt, so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). If we confess our sin and place our faith in Christ, asking for God’s forgiveness based on Christ’s sacrifice, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. God loved us so much that He provided the means for our salvation, but if we reject His gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.
I think you are on to something regarding God’s ultimate purpose with judgment being to protect us from those who sin, hurt and destroy. Your analogies were hell as a quarantine or of a Tupperware holding sinners. I do see the purpose of God’s final judgment as the same in purpose and power. However, take a deeper look. The examples in the Bible in which God poured his wrath out to accomplish this purpose on earth in the past like the flood, or God extending eternal fire to burn up Sodom and Gomorrah: the events results in the destruction of the sinners. It wiped them out. In 2 Peter we are told these are examples of what is going to happen to the ungodly at final judgment. Do you think it is possible for God to accomplish the same thing by destroying the unjust? Are we sure sinners are inherently immortal and able to survive the cup of God’s wrath poured out on them at future final judgment? If so, and sinners are kept in a state of spiritual death but some form of life in a quarantine Tupperware for all eternity how can we as Christians affirm that “the last enemy to be destroyed is death?”
And you, Capernaum, which are exalted to heaven, shall be thrust down to hell. Luke 10:15; Matt.11:23
Not sure if I missed it and, I’m sorry if I did. So I was taught that hell ( the punishment for unrepentant sin ) is “never having existed “ the opposite to eternal life is never having existed. So there will be no memory of someone who does not choose Jesus.
Another concept is, that the captivity in Babylon was also protection from the pagan nations.
Assyria, had already destroyed the Northern Kingdom (the 10 lost tribes), after they broke away from the Southern Kingdom, the House of Judah.
GOD preserved the House of Judah through Babylon, and people like Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Shadrach, Meshach,Abednego, as well as Esther and the Israelite's who were in Persia at the time.
Sometimes, what we see as GOD's wrath, is really GOD's divine protection.
Beautiful!! 😍
To no ever burning hell
hell was one of the main reasons why Charles Darwin was not a Christian. Covered well in Paul Jones' book, 'Darwin, portrait of a genius'.
*Paul Johnson
Unfortunately those who don't believe in Hell end up there. Denying Hell is denying God
@@markhorton3994 IF IF IF you die and find yourself in MUSLIM HELL or HINDU HELL, you'll accept it happily, right ??
@@sanjeevgig8918 Only the Christian, Triune God is real. The Muslim Hell is false.
Hindus do not have a concept of Hell. In Hinduism one is reincarnated until becoming good enough to be released becoming part of the all and cease to exist as an individual.
I know where I will go when I die.
@@markhorton3994 Google SPECIAL PLEADING.
LOL
SOOOOOO good! 🙏
m,People don't realize how vile they are. If people understood their vile, sinfulness and the Holliness of God, it seems they would agree they must be separated and could never be able to stand in the presence of God and wouldn't want to. Who would even ask to see their own depravity through the eyes of God or Justice. Indeed, a very /****-brave sole
Who deserves to be in hell forever suffering? Satan! But will he?
Ezekiel 28:18 (KJV) Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Got the book. Very interesting approach. 👍
Alisa, good presentation of the set behind you and your own self.
My struggle with the Christian concept is that I have difficulties relating to all the different factions that have reinterpreted the scriptures, Cherry pick to soothe their discomforts with part of the Bible, and the real awful injustices that have been perpetrated on my black peoples all over the world in the name of Christianity, as well as in the name of my Islam.
I find it really impossible to endorse the continuance of Christian domination over black, because it feels like I would be signaling Christian nationalist or Christian racist groups to continue to harm black people. That is a real huge struggle for me, and I continue to view the Christian idea as a physical and mental threat to my people all over the world.
Perhaps you have some thoughts to share.
I won't know I'm truly saved until I am saved from all possibility of going to hell
The Gospel explained through scripture only
Acts 13:38-39KJB
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Romans 1:18-20KJB
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:32KJB
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 2:5KJB
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Romans 2:16KJB
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 3:10-12KJB
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:19-26KJB
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 4:5KJB
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 5:1-2KJB
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:8-11KJB
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4KJB
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Come to Dallas!
Hell No, No Hell?
Why in the hell are we so invested in believing there is a hell? One of the hardest truths for some Christians is to accept that there is no hell. Why do they fight so hard to believe in a God that would burn us?
You should watch the video. It will help
@Sydney Bell It has nothing to do with God but with fear, control, worry, doubt and guilt.
God doesn’t delight in injustice but rejoice with the truth. God is love and loves His enemies. Hell slanders the character of God, diminishes God’s plan for humanity, and is the biggest injustice there is (being eternally consciously tormented for finite sins).
@@SillyChickens222 "God is love and loves His enemies."
Didn't this loving god command the SLAUGHTER of Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:3) Midianites (Numbers 31:15-18) Jabesh-Gilead (Judges 21:10-11) Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites (Deuteronomy 20:16-18) ?
An Omnipotent god could accomplish its goals without slaughter unless slaughter is the goal.
@@sanjeevgig8918this loving God also sent His Son to die for our sins so we aren’t separated from God by our death. What happened to Jesus was horrible but God used it for good. That’s what most people won’t get past that God is the creator of good and evil but He uses it all for His purposes. His ways are beyond our ways and He sees everything from beginning to end. I was molested by my dad as a child. I get angry with God and wonder why He put me through that as a child. And I think about all the other children suffering right now too. But I know we live in a fallen world where we have to know evil in order to be thankful for the good. Only God can impart faith and lead one to repentance. Before that no one is seeking God and all are locked up in stubbornness. The only reason why I can see God’s truth is bc He opened my eyes to it 💗 He will do the same for all men one day too!
Is Christianity really that ignorant of the Scriptural basics in order to bring this up as a topic?
I mean, I know that the majority of Christendom is neck deep lost in pastoral worship and dispensational eschatological ideology, but hell being a myth is kind of too much.
Alisa's ministry makes a point to counter the claims that are turning up in progressive Christianity and the deconstruction movement. A Christian not caught up in these ideologies may not have any issue with the reality of hell, but progressives and deconstructioners very much do.
@@truebabies
I understand what you are saying. But from my experience in apologetics and the faith, it does nothing conclusive within our faith except further divide the brethren and help demonize each other because these heretical beliefs are usually brought in by prominent, credentialed, well trained, and educated people within the faith instead of nonbelievers.
Although, I understand why she is doing this, I also know that we, the brethren, forget that the work of nurturing the growing believer, as well as the grown mature believer in the faith is done by the milk of the Word, which is able to rebuke, teach, and edify our mutual faith by the Holy Spirit no matter how hard we try to do so.
Jesus did say that let the blind leaders lead the blind into the same pit, so preach Christ crucified and let the Lord do His work.
But that is just my two cents worth.
Condemnation is entirely biblical, but traditional Christianity's idea of hell is literally a myth. Like most of its other traditions and beliefs, traditional Christianity's view of hell was appropriated from heathen religions and given a Christian coat.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779
The heathen religions didn't have a punishment for the afterlife. They believed that the soul was destroyed, or disintegrated into the Earth. They actually adopted that belief from the Jewish one because of the Jewish scriptures being copied into the Greek.
The timeline in the intro does not make sense. Josh was at Imago Dei in February of 2023?
When God proclaimed His identity was LOVE, that set in place a paradigm or a filter, through which all of His actions are framed. For all the extent of His sovereignty, none of His conclusions for any life can be outside of being an act of love. Is eternal torment an act of love for the lost? Clearly not. Is denial of immortality, or extermination of the lost, an act of love? Clearly not. Would a good Father always make a way to reconcile ALL people to Himself, that none should perish, be an act of love? Assuredly YES! We can discern scripture in many different ways, but no matter what that is, it must conclude in being a reflection of God's identity.... LOVE. That means even His wrath, anger, hatred, and justice are all under the paradigm of love. Amen.
Nope,it is the worm that never dies. Psalm 22
Welp. Our bad choices, indeed.
"...we want freedom from God and sometimes God's greatest judgement is giving us what we want" IS what informs me as I go about my daily life or as I approach the throne in prayer or when I share the gospel with the precious idiotic unbelievers my Creator keeps dropping off on the doorstep. Try to explain the joy and gratitude exploding inside me as He keeps making freedom from self possible, day after day after day for decades? Wow, I ask and He rescues but not because I deserve it; Jesus Christ purchased this freedom because He loves me. Maybe a person has to actually experience the spiritual intimacy grace affords before they can understand God can do whatever the hell He wants about Hell whether we like it or not.
I am new to your channel... I saw you video in response to the Asbury "revival" to which I agree and forwarded it to many who are watching as if it is something from God.. I am now watching this video and wanted to point our a major correction right off the bat.. and I will add to this post after the video ends.. But @ 4:15 you say that "God sends people to hell".. It is clear that God does not send people to hell and in fact He states that He created it for the angels (Matthew 25:41) and that He desires that no person should perish. Therefore, it is conclusive that only the individual can send them self to hell. But as the video just started I am certain your information and discussion will be of most importance for all who watch it.
So if God doesn't do it, how do you know how to get there? What is the mechanism that transports you there? How is God not involved in that process?
@@truncated7644 Romans 10:17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Was it your ear that gave you faith? The Word of God, which is given through the Bible, declares The Good News > Salvation. So then, did the Bible save you? And if so, is it then the Bible which delivers you to heaven?
@@kansascityonline No, I don't believe the Bible is true or that its teaching delivers me anything. Did you have a different point you meant to make?
@@truncated7644 Yes! If you don't believe the Bible why bother asking a question about it. Put another way, do you often ask questions about things you do not believe. (rhetoric)...
@@kansascityonline I ask people questions about things that they believe that seen unfounded to me. Why do you believe it?
Ghenna is going to be where the lake of fire will be when God/Yeshua judges. Not sure why they used Hell/Hades for translation. It did morph into a Greek mindset as people think of Dantes inferno. A place you go when you die. I think the 1st official church-roman catholic church may have started this syncretism (Starting with possibly Constantine)
Leviticus, etc talks about being cut off for sin which will one day be a permanent thing.
Psalm 1 is great understanding of everything.
Alisa, I'd be carefully studying recent John Cooper/Michael Brown stuff before I'd bring him back on if I were you, he's become a worry that lad at least imo.
I say thats keeper
In the Bible, Jesus talks more about hell than anyone. This gets my attention. Didn't our Christian doctrine of hell start with Jesus? Anyway, knowing this show we will get some Bible on the subject.
Traditional Christianity's view of condemnation did not start with Christ, as He reinforced what prophets taught about the condemned being _completely destroyed_ . The death penalty that was carried out under the Sinai Covenant was a type of the second and more permanent death that is mentioned in Rev. 2 and 20.
First of all, it sounds like Hell, as a word, literally derives from Norse, so if that is all Alisa was asking, the answer is yes. But wow, for such an important topic, the fact that humans have been on earth for 200,000 years and God only provides this detailed knowledge about it in the most recent 1% of that time doesn't sound very loving.Or reasonable. Or true.
Jesus when he spoke of hell as final punishment was translated from the word gehena a.k.a the valley of hinnom in which God nicknamed "the valley of slaughter." because that was the nature of his justice over the wicked who sacrificed their children in Gehena. How that depicts eternal torment is beyond me. The wages of sin is DEATH (Apollumi: Utterly kill, Slay). A state in which you cannot sin. Objectively Jesus was not speaking of a fiery underworld. Gehena is a real place that Jesus used as refference that the Jewish people would know of namely from the book of Jeremiah. Its about time the church wakes up and not believe in gimmicky teachings.
Read on Bible is a progressive revelation.. John tells us of judgment and hell being thrown in the lake of fire .. you believe or not
@@Alan-tjj The Bible only speaks of complete obliteration/annihilation. Eternal punishment is speaking of the result being permanent, not continuous burning. The lake of fire is the way by which the second death occurs for the resurrected unbelievers. Death means death, not living forever in torment. Resurrected flesh can't burn forever.
@Katherine B revelation 14: 10 your not listening.. To be absent from the body is to be with the Lord.. christians only die once..2nd death is a judgment after your first death ..for unbelievers
@@Alan-tjj Being consumed in a lake of fire isn't torment? I did say the second death is for resurrected unbelievers.
@@Alan-tjj It's "and to be present", not "is to be present".
I didn’t feel like it was a good enough response to the TikTok video? She said that we got it from Greek mythology?
Hell is the grave
This should be interesing.
"And I will be to her a wall of fire all around, declares the Lord, and I will be the glory in her midst." Zechariah 2:5
"In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah:
“We have a strong city;
he sets up salvation
as walls and bulwarks." Isaiah 26:1
"Violence shall no more be heard in your land,
devastation or destruction within your borders;
you shall call your walls Salvation,
and your gates Praise." Isaiah 60:18
thank you Jeanne for posting the verse
The Bible is literally true 💯✝️
No its not
The Dead Sea Scrolls were written before Norse Mythology
I mean Sheol is the Jewish version of the ANE Underworld, like Irkalla.
Disappointed with this video, I’ll have to say. And I never comment but I felt like I had to.
It was confusing and I wasn’t sure where it was going..
I don’t find your other videos to be like this one.
Your guest and his videos on his UA-cam channel remind me of podcasts like, The Bible is for normal people, and teachers like Pete Enns.
Thoughts like this don’t add up and aren’t biblical.
The King James Bible is the only translation that has the word Hell in it I think 55× the KJV is the inspired, pure, preserved, infalliable word of God. ❤️
Also 17 times in the English Standard Version, 15 times in the New American Standard Version, and 20 times in the Revised Standard Version. You're probably right in that the KJV has the most occurrences of hell translated as "hell."
Stop it.
The Shack god doesn't pour out wrath
The Gospel explained through scripture only
Acts 13:38-39KJB
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Romans 1:18-20KJB
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:32KJB
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 2:5KJB
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Romans 2:16KJB
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 3:10-12KJB
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:19-26KJB
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 4:5KJB
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 5:1-2KJB
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:8-11KJB
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4KJB
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Belief in different gods, angels, demons and life everlasting in heaven or hell are all brain based reactions to not knowing.
Thousands of years of endless discussions are proof that no one knows.
Some know .
And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. [Luke 8] He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment. [Luke 16]
You mention in the beginning that God will reconcile all things on heaven and earth, and that he'll make all things new. Then you end attacking universalism which is the only way those statements are true. I mean, how exactly does God swallow up death in victory with the vast majority of humanity in eternal death?
Hell was made for the devil and his demon followers and all those who deny Christ.
wow, you're going downhill fast having this guy on. Keep them Christians lukewarm, Alisa!
Xtianity: CHOOSE your own interpretation religion. 2000 YEARS later, they are just making crap up. LOL
Mike Winger: No one is actually in HELL right now.
C S Lewis: The doors of HELL are locked on the inside.
Calvinists: Only the elect are saved. the rest are going to HELL.
Universalist: No one is going to HELL forever.
Hell is This Earth you live in 🤷👹 Devil's pet's Luke 10:18
There has to be a place for those people that are hated that don't suffer during their lives. That place is hell.
Hell is a place made up by people who don't forgive.
God's wrath comes from those who won't let go of their own anger.
A singer/songwriter w NO theological background or education.. doing a video on hell. Huh. Seen it all now.
All Christian’s are expected to study theology. You don’t need to be specially trained to read the Bible.
Jesus: "let me in"
Me: "why?"
Jesus: "to protect you"
Me: "from what?"
Jesus: "from what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in!"
The Italian MAFIA uses the same logic. LOL
No it's from the sins you commit.
@@plalelal Is Jesus in HELL right now ?
IF IF IF he "paid" or "is paying" the price for other sinners, he must be sitting in HELL, right ??
That is correct, our language is used to manipulate, borrowed off all the others. Regardless, the parables of hell which is when it’s used refers to the burning of desire, emotions! They only occur NOW, hence the kingdom is within you! In other words you cannot enter the kingdom which is peace love rest, if you are burning with anger, hate, bitterness, guilt, fear! Is that simple enough for your carnal mind? The higher and lower thoughts and emotions, energy’s!
That's an interesting theory about the parables of hell really referring to emotions. Is that based on any evidence or did you just make it up?
@@colinplank it is what it’s saying!! Also Gehenna is the dead! But not literal dead. To be carnally minded is death! So that’s why Jesus spoke to the pharassiees harshly to say that they are in their carnal minds taking the Old Testament literal so the spirit is dead. It’s not life. That’s why he called them white washed tombs! Inside they are dead ( just carnal, lower nature, earth). It is all parable, John writes Jesus did not open his mouth without a parable. Lazarus is an parable, because it’s all a story of within hence the statement the kingdom is within you! Meaning the Old Testament writings of all these kingdoms and rulers and people are just a symbol of your story! Jacob is a story of you, genesis is you, Abraham is you Moses! It is the spirit of the story not the letter Paul tells you! It is the earth, then the water ( baptism) of truth not water, then rising to the air meeting the Christ within yourself who baptises with fire ( spirit). God is a consuming fire! Not to hurt you but to burn away the lies and suffering of the mind! It’s beautiful because God is love. Does not harm you and has never left you! Do you not know the spirit of God dwells in YOU? ( Paul asks). Peace
@@colinplank have I lost you? Did I say to much and confused you?
@@terrypaul7706 I'm not trying to be mean when I say this, but you're making all kinds of assertions without giving any evidence. The assertions you've made about what the Bible means are false. Did someone tell you all this? How do they know what Jesus meant or what Gehenna really means when these secret meanings are not recorded? I encourage you to read the gospels yourself as though you're just a regular person who doesn't know much about Jesus or Christianity. That's the audience that the Gospel writers had in mind. It is not a complicated message and the meaning becomes clear when you read it without any presuppositions (Christian or otherwise).
I could be convinced of your position if you can show where specifically these claims are made in Scripture rather than just insisting that they are.
@@colinplank I gave you scripture and so you are worshipping a book when you are the book of life! It is YOUR carnal mind deceiving YOU now! How do I know? Because the bible is the living word yeah? Well are you living? Do you know the name of God? This idol book tells you but you don’t remember because you are you using your carnal mind not spirit! I AM is the name of God Moses states! Do you say I AM? Is it the spirit or your ego saying it? The ego which is an enemy of God meaning it cannot know God is Satan which means adversary! The beast. The earth carnal low in you! That’s why it says esau was red not literal but earthy, lower, red is the low energy hence the devil depicted red. Emotions, Moses parted the Red Sea! The emotions must part to get to the promised land,
You are so judgemental!!!
Christianity is false. My channel debunks Christianity
.
Hell is just a word.
Reality is much much worse
Ho-boy are you in for a rude awakening!
@Martin my children disobeyed me, should I torture them when they literally didn't fully understand why I had rules for them? In your worldview, God is complete in himself, lacking nothing and can't be diminished. What is there to pay him?