Arena fighters are fighting games, doesn't matter if you like them are not. The genre is wider than FGC folk think. I love playing Street Fighter, but the game that got me into the genre was Budokai Tenkaichi 3. Well said!
It really depends on how deep it is. SSBU is def a fighting game same way that Aether rivals as an FG. DBZ sparking zero has to be a fighting game, It has High and Low blocking as well as meter managment and oki setups that being said tho, Not all Arena fighters are fg cuz look at All stars, garbage asf.
@@brupts7297what oki does sparking have? This game has highs and lows but it's not like the traditional fighting game. Traditional fighters do better than arena fighters. Arena fighters are more niche. This is more fun than technical, which is cool, but it doesn't do the same thing guilty gear does for me.
@@juliustaylor9920 Yeah idk why people can’t accept that this simply isn’t ever going to be what people think of when they think of a fighting games. Even if technically/ semantically it is literally 2 people fighting, people who act like arena fighters are in the same category are just being purposely obtuse.
@@xaviersanchez3498no we are not being purposely obtuse. We are being intellectually honest. It does not matter that arena fighters aren't thought of when people think of fighting games. They are still fighting games by the very definition of the term
@@noBody-ue6cshe didn't say anything about being broken at the games, he's talking about the objective fact that Marvel versus Capcom is unbalanced yet it is considered a fighting game
@@KnigD_Slainbut it is "balanced" lol i lost count to how many top tier characters i've wasted with yamcha, in the end as long as skill can beat lore there will be balance.
@@CodyslxTekken and Marvel versus Capcom are also not a part of the traditional fighting genre. They are still fighting games. Your criteria for what makes a fighting game is lacking logic
Arena fighters don't have the same "flow" or depth compared to traditional 2D fighting games. You can't honestly tell me games like Sparking Zero are comparable to something like Tekken Tag Tournament or Guilty Gear where most of the roster of characters feel unique and have their own gimmicks with how to play as them?
It is a fighting game and to be specific a 5d fighting game. There are other games of this type. It has all the basics of 2d fight games except super inputs. But you can move in 3d space making tekken or king of fighting side steps. The game has a world tour story mode... What reason are you saying it's not a fighting game? Because it's un balanced then you never played Marvel or fist of the north star those games are busted!
It’s because the ones stuck in 2d fighting games that can’t venture out are jealous that sparking zero outsold their entire collection of favorite fighting games combined and in 3 days its community is bigger than their fighting game.
@@NoxLegend1 Who are you talking about? Doesn’t MK still outsell this game like every release? I don’t remember this game selling 15 million copies like MK 11 did. Even trash MK 1 still currently has more sold; what does that information do for you?
Explain why Power Stone was at EVO this year? Explain to me why Def Jam: Fight for NY was at Combo Breaker this year? Explain to me why Ergheiz was at CEOtaku this year? Arena Fighters are fighters and some of them have a competitive scene. These gatekeepers are fgc clowns that simply suck at Arena Fighters. Plain and simple. Same goes for Platform fighters such as Smash, Rivals, and Brawlhalla.
Not hard to be good at an arena fighter I’m already rank A lmao… they are fighting games definitely but they don’t take as much skill as traditional or even platform fighters… like Wendy’s workers prepare food but they aren’t skillful chef
i absolutely can’t stand this argument. people keep saying “arena fighters aren’t fighters” and my argument is “repeat that second word one more time for me”. yes the mechanics are different and controls are different, but they are fighting nonetheless. that’s the main objective.
Agreed. I think people focus more on whether or not it's featured on a stage at EVO or other adjacent venues. People are too bent up over it being traditional rather than accepting it for being a sub-genre of "fighting games" as a whole. Seen similar arguments about third-person shooters and where they stand in their respective genre. I'm convinced people can't just be happy for other games or something nowadays lol
@@SubotimalRath Everyone can agree it's a fighting game but not comparable to the other games in question. Some would argue it just doesn't meet the criteria. If you break down what sets it apart especially with developer intent.
At this point we need to just call "fighting games" something else. It's really unintuitive for the wider public to understand that "fighting game" as a term refers to a very specific subset of "games where people fight". The same way that "shooting game" can refer to DoDonPachi (shmup), Doom (FPS), Vanquish (TPS), and Virtua Cop (lightgun game). "Traditional fighting game" could work, but I don't think it's good enough, since we still have divides between traditional 2D and 3D fighting games. I don't have a perfect solution, but I think a genre rename/rebrand is probably the way forward. We don't call FPS games "Doom clones" any more as a prime example.
You're right we don't call all FPS games Doom clones we also don't make a distinction between a casual FPS in a hardcore FPS because we fundamentally understand that they're both first person shooters. Just like how there are hardcore fighting games like Street Fighter and Casual fighting games like sparking zero they both are by the very definition of the term fighting games stop trying to make a distinction when there isn't any
i hate this "elitism" that some people in the fgc have towards non-traditional fighting games. it reminds me of that one legendary reddit post where some neck bearded greaseball rants about nintendo games, jump and runs, life sims, etc. not being "real games"
99 percent of the people talking trash haven’t played it. They think that this is some Naruto type game but in reality it’s the most mechanically deep and complex arena fighter ever made.
I will never understand why this is an argument. People will make anything competitive if it has 1v1. There's a scene for rock, paper, scissors of all things! Did people forget about sub-genres? Platform fighters and arena fighters are exactly that. Spun off from the traditional genre due to aspects not normally found in the original. Wether they're balanced or competitively viable doesn't matter, people will make a scene out of anything because we're competitive by nature. If action rpgs are a sub-genre of rpgs, but considered rpgs anyway, then the same applies here. Or is anyone gonna argue how Dark Souls isn't an rpg?
Although i consider this game a fighting game, i find it difficult that people will maintain an active competitive scene for a long time. This game doesn't even have proper training mode, the current meta is trash and the devs have already said they don't care about balance. These could all change, but until then, I will personally only play it as a side game.
best comment i've seen so far. sure it may have fighting game elements, but it hasn't been designed for competitive play, which is a pretty big factor that separates a fighting game and a party game to me. remember, they make the budokai games for kids....
I honestly like that this topic is being revisited. I hope they allow it to be part of main events for a little while. The entry numbers would go crazy
some places are hosting i just dont think it will ever hit big places like evo or whatever. I know Globku is gonna host a big tournament for it eventually.
i don't think it's the style of game they want at something like EVO tho, it's not that SZ isn't a fighting game but like UFC games it doesn't fit the energy and image of something like EVO, maybe AnimEVO but not a normal evo
Although I also consider this a fighting game, I think it will have the same problems as mortal Kombat has. Because the game was made for a mostly casual fan base, players simply won't leave their houses to compete in locals or major tournaments.
I'm going to have ask but can you really say that is sincere take when you have to stop and than and a sentence to context it like theres nothing wrong with Sparking Zero not being a fighting game at all
@@addex1236 If FF16 is an RPG despite playing like a wannabe DMC, an action game, then Sparking Zero and other Arena Fighters are Fighting Games regardless of not playing like Street Fighter. Subgenres are a thing. If it's a game about Fighting (other people), it's a Fighting Game.
This entire argument is caused by the difference in definition of "Fighting game". The way you define fighting games, I would consider sparking and super smash bros fighting games. However, a lot of people treat "fighting games" as a synonym for traditional fighting game, like myself, and so don't brand sparking or smash as a fighting game. I feel that "anime/arena" fighter fits better, made a whole bunch of new DBZ fans with sparking that I couldn't with fighterz
Honestly as someone who’s been falling off as of late when regarding to video games I gotta say i was surprised when i realized 3 whole hours passes me by and i still wanted to play more. No game has been able to lock me in like that in years
I say they are. They're a subgenre of fighting games like Smash. Can't get mad at Sparking 0 fans asking Rolfmonger to elaborate then calling him dumb for refusing to elaborate besides I'm right you're wrong. That's not how you engage when someone is asking a serious question after saying Sparking 0 isn't a FG. Balance shouldn't even be talked about. MKX is disgustingly unfair and broken and it's one of the greatest FGs of all time. If anything I don't wanna play a balanced FG my favorite experiences have been from unfair games
List of Fighting games according to you: Minecraft, Yakuza, Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, Resident Evil 4, God of War, Zone of the Enders, Mass Effect, Metroid
@@RetroDragonfly Except in those games you only fight AIs and if you fight other players it's an optionnal mode. While in fighting games, INCLUDING ARENA FIGHTERS, the main intended experience is a 1v1 pvp with AI fights and special conditions being secondary
@StudioFocus-hh7dx Pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about. That is a single player game. I think a fighter is where you can fight a cpu or another player 1v1 and that makes Sparking Zero a fighter no?
Personally I don't think that the distinction between the two genres isn't just about "balance". There's plenty of beloved traditional FGs that are extremely unbalanced (MVC2, UMVC3), and even in the system mechanics can degenerate into infinites (XvSF) and cheap shit (DBFZ S2 Snap). I think what it comes down to is the actual freedom of decision making that the game gives you, and there is no bigger decision than your CHARACTER choice. Because it will dictate the playstyle you have and lets you express yourself through a character the way you want. This "learning a character" aspect (and therefore, character to character interaction aspect) is non-existent in arena brawlers. In an effort to allow fans of the IP to play their favorites without hassle, the characters end up being homogeneous with superficial changes like the color of their energy attacks or the cinematic that plays during their rush. So yeah, while there can be tier lists and stuff, its only on the basis of which character can do the same things but better, since unique tools and combinations of tools just aren't a thing in these games. And combos are defined by the game, and that structure can be repeated for all the characters, however many there may be. It's an intentional choice to pick style over substance. This accessible design extends into the system mechanics as well. The arena itself being a massive selling point for fans for an immersive experience, but for a fighting game, it actually becomes a detriment because its size and its camera make neutral and spacing interactions impossible, and the game vacuums your attacks to make up for that. So the focus is shifted to positioning over spacing. To me, it's the difference between playing a game where you and your opponent are intentionally making decisions at a much higher rate with more complexity and the addition of character specific interaction, and playing with a virtual action figure treasure trove simulation that allows for an immersive experience with much more characters without the devs having to worry about making unique and complex movesets for each and everyone they include.
try to convince me otherwise. Mario tennis aces on the Nintendo switch is a fighting game. It has jabs in the form of topspins and flat shots. It has mixups in the form of slices and drop shots. It has special attacks in the form of tricks And a literal super move when your meter fills up. Each player has an HP bar in the form of four hits And you can TKO by breaking the racket
I think this varies on what individual people consider “fighting games” and what they’re referring to when they say fighting games with no specifications.
Yeah that’s fine, but why are they being so toxic about it? It’s like they hate arena fighters and the people who play them, there’s no reason to be so hostile about it like a lot of these FGC guys are doing.
@@DoritosBurger because it's the internet. i like to compare the internet to being in traffic: someone in front of you does something that inconveniences you, you start berating them, hating them, you get angry etc. but that's just a primitive impulse that can exist because of emotional distance and anonymity to the other person. you'd never act this way to the other person if they were in front of you in the same room. it's important to realise online and real life are and can be very different. don't use twitter, or other social media and most discrimination and actual animosity will vanish from your life
Of all the Budokai Tenkaichi, Sparking Zero is the MOST close to a real fighting game. It has actual neutral where people will be sidestepping and moving back and forth and blocking with goddamn nothing actually happening because both players are respecting eachother, only for both players to ultimately grab and then a clash happens and it's the hypest shit possible in that very moment.
Yeah SZ is a real fighting game. But i do kinda see why many fcg folks hate the comparison, since DBZ SZ is a Dragon ball game at it's core and many people buy it cuz it's DragonBall. Hell, many players cant even do combo and Counter lmao. While traditional fighter are trapped in The HELL of Hardcore gaming. You cant really compare Hardcore VS casual. Now Naruto Storm is what i consider to be a non-fighiting game, that game is so dump down lmao😂
@@ThisisKyle yeah maybe you can say Ninja storm is fighting game. But i mean i very bad one lmao. Even Anime Game Fan dislike storm lmao. Also, it's not like you CANT compare them but i mean it's pointless. Ofcourse DBZ SZ is gonna be more successful and more fun. No need to think about that bruh Casual always win against Hardcore. Now the people Who Said DBZ SZ is not worth the Comparison is Just Pure Hating on Anime game lmao. It's quite the Opposite, street fighters or tekken will always lose to casual game lmao. (I do think you play casual game VS hardcore game for different things. I would play Dbz Sz for fun even if it'a competitive while my goals in traditional fighter is to do a TOD or A super long and hard combo, since it'a hardcore, i want to feel that feeling. You can compare but why compare 2 different things? Again, you cant sag which one is better because both are good and different. Still Ninja storm sucks ass, the old Clash of Ninja games are way BETTER
@@huynghiepduif I'm completely fine with people saying that Ninja Storm is a bad fighting game just as long as they are honest with themselves and admit that by the definition of the term they are fighting games
@@ThisisKyle yeah. Still i cant believe people think DBZ SZ is not worth the comparison lmao. Like Street fighter ever sold more than DB FZ. Fighting game are not that big out side of rich countries. In my contry maybe 1 of 10 guy know about SF, but 8 of 10 will shout out KamehameHAAAAAAA. You need to be big without being a fighting game first to be a fighting game that sold
They're all fighting games. Just different kinds. Some are traditional, others arena, and others platform. It's like saying " oh this game isn't an RPG because it's not turn based ". No, it's still an RPG. Lol
@@SSP2476but the difference being you can Persona 5 and Skyrim to the same roots with simmalr goals Street fighter 6 wants to be a competition it wants to compete sparking zero wants to adapt dragon ball and I mean adapt in its purest form like it wants you to be able to remake those moment you love and it dose it well very well but it dosent want to do the same thing as Tekken Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat so why are we are acting like its the same damn thing
I hate gatekeeping like this. I actually think the idea of having intentionally unbalanced characters with differing "cost" to put on a competitive team is super under explored. You could pick 2 really strong characters, or have 5 weak characters and it's entirely up to you which you value more.
Arena fighters and traditional fighters are fighting games so here is more about what you vibe with more. AF are more loose and unbalanced yet fun while TF have a more thigh combat sistem and depth and are design to be more competitive
yeah but tbf that game is also in a genre known for wacky balance, it doesn't help that the game was developed during a rough period, the game is unfinished, there's a large amount of stuff the team wanted to add but never got to due to an earthquake or something. Even with that there are a fair amount of people who don't like seeing UMVC3 either, game is fun but like a lot of stuff from the older era it's most definitely not a bastion of balance.
people really need to give arena fighters the credit they deserve as viable fighters for high level competitive play, I understand sz is a comparatively easy game compared to traditional fighters but the challenge comes with extra 3d space and near frame perfect inputs needed for counters, and being able to counter virtually anything is going to make for some crazy matches when we have sweats who can vanish/z counter/super counter perfect every time, also every character is viable is you have your fundamentals down im destroying gogetas daily w base roshi and Chiaotzu
It is a fighting game. Just not a traditional-based fighting game. It's like comparing Poker and Yugioh, both are card games but not the same type of card game. You cant say which is better than which they are so different. But Sparking Zero is what i consider to be a traditional based Arena fighter. It's good and has similar stuff to 3d fighter like Tekken. Cool. Naruto Storm is what i consider A TRASH ARENA FUGHTER. ALSO DBZ SZ Is not complicated at all dont compares it to traditional fighting since many games are way simpler than it, yet Tekken still have a 50+ movelist lmao. Still, you cant say DBZ SZ is successful as a fighting game, it is only successfull since it's a DBZ game. If this is a brand new game with original character it wont be as successful as it's rightnow in addition to the fact that this it's a Consumer friendly game while traditional fighting game are traped in the Hell of Hardcore gaming. Same with streetfighter or tekken they have history, they are successful because of that history. Now a fightinf game that i think that is truly successful is something like GgStrive, Guilty Gear used to a very hardcore type of game, but with strive many average gamers look at it and go "this looks cool and the animation is so good", buy the game have fun with Sol, see HappgChaos then Quit. Atleast it actually makes people buy the game. Hell, it going to have it's Anime (and it's not some cringe ass netflix show).
I won't say arena fighters are not fighting games, but I don't play them competitively and never have. I just never got the appeal and they aren't for me. Let people play what they want is all I say.
The appeal, at least for me, is that they just don’t take the commitment your standard fighting game does, while still allowing you to interact with a somewhat competitive community. I used to play all the big ones, at least most of them, but the game that made me realize why I prefer arena fighters was Tekken 8. It’s a great game, but I just dont have the time to put in to get competent with them. Between working graveyard shift, spending time with the wife, seeing my friends, the last thing I want to do in a game is lab a character for hours when I most likely won’t retain half of what I spent the hours doing. But with an arena fighter, I don’t have that nearly as bad. There are things to learn, but I can go into practice and learn most what I need to know in an hour or two, then I can actually start interacting with other players.
Fantastic video. I don't have anything else to add as MMORPGs are my main genre, but I just want you to know that I i respect how you covered your topic in a concise manner.
I understand this argument, but I don't agree with this argument. It would be like me saying ff7 remake is not an rpg, because it is not turn based like the original. Just as dumb a statement.
The producer who supervised the game, the companies that rank the game, & companies that sell the game all call it or have it under the genre of fighting games. Idk why people are arguing this 😆 it is a fighting game. It’s different from Tekken, SF, MvC, & smash but it is still a fighting game.
Arena fighters are fighting games. They just approach the genre differently compared to traditional fighting games. If Smash got to EVO so many times despite not being a "proper" fighting game then Sparking Zero (and other arena fighters) can be considered one too. (Also, I like how some people bring button mashing when games like BBTag exists and many modern FGs have auto combos)
Tekken has a good amount of mehcnaics, but the thing is it has a lot of mechanical depth. Mechanical density and mechanical depth are two different things.
I think it's less of a distinction in genre and more of a "I'm sick of hearing about a game that relies on the IP be compared to games that are meant to stand on their own" type of deal. No shit this dargon ball merchandise did better than a video game with its own IP. Fighting Glgames are almost indie games when compared to games that rely on anime IP. It's like comparing ghost of Tsushima to beat em up games. I think it would be better to compare it to other dragon ball games than to street fighter. It's just annoying to hear someone flex on numbers that are just a reflection of the IP itself.
Even then this argument doesn't hold because a lot of the biggest traditional fighting game franchises have been around as long as Dragonball so at that point wouldn't they all be coasting off IP. Street Fighter pre-dates Dragonball by 2 years because SF was made in 1987 and DB in 1989, and MK came 3 years later in 1992 and Tekken after that in 1994. It's not like these franchises aren't well known either or some obscure indie titles, because they're global phenomena that have lasted over 30+ years at this point. There are also traditinal fighting games based off of huge IP that flopped as well. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite and Power Rangers Battle for the Grid are 2 that come to mind, and while Battle for the Grid may have a small but dedicated community, MvC Infinite is widely hated and said to have essentially killed the MvC franchise.
To answer a comment here and also anyone that comes with this argument and the video too. "It's not a fighting game." "Oh what do you do in the game then?" "Fight mostly." So that also applies to WoW, since it has PVP, and pokemon? After all, you are "fighting" other opponents there too. Because if you are trying to be a smartass with technicalities, I can do that too. There is a reason why the distinction is made between THOSE (including smash) games and everyone else in the genre. Does it mean you can't make games that make said distinction fuzzier? No, of course not, but simply putting them on the same "level" or better said "group" is a mistake and ends up in confusion. Because if so, later on we end up with discussions online of people trying to make the argument that they are the same when they are not. Or you wonder why, even as a joke, donkey compared this game to tekken? Or why people that argued that smash was a real fighting game couldn't even make a hadoken? You technically shoot in both CoD and Doom, yet we make the distinction between those two because you can't compare them. The same for games like DMC and other action games, as well as RTS and MOBAS, despite these last two share a lot of mechanics and 80% of controls.
I'm not gonna sit here and act like Arena Fighters ain't fighters. They definitely are. What I will argue however is how difficult a game like Sparking Zero would be to balance for competitive viability. How many characters you would have to ban from comp play because they have something broken that you just can't really deal with or something that just inherently gives them an advantage. Coming from the Def Jam FFNY Community we have like 20+ characters that we've had to specifically ban from Standard Tier Play because their kits or stats are just way too busted for most of the cast to deal with. So maybe if you could Balance a Sparking Zero that way it could work, but that takes A LOT of time and investment to do something like that and have a majority of the scene agree with those decisions.
Bandai Might balance, but I I'm 50/50 on that. If they listen to people that are adamant about no changes, then it won't. I do however hope they are able to take the long view and go from there. But if not, community rules are the way to go.
super smash bros ultimate has 80plus characters, I think and it is considered the most balanced smash bros. Most characters are competitively viable. It can be done.
@@dripfoe_3307 Smash Ultimate has a lot of flaws even with that though, It's fairly well balanced by smash standards but it's not hard considering it's up against Brawl and 4, and even then the last DLC wave has kind of ruined the balance, Ultimate has been one of the only games to never have ban arguments but with Steve and the amount of bs his players find every week it's looking realistic that he'll be banned Even then Ult is a poor comparison because Sparking Zero has over double the roster size of Ultimate and that games has glaring flaws in balance, add in that most Arena Fighters are not balanced for compeition it makes the chance of of it ending up well balanced hard, i do also just think that the fact that even.
Oh my God I swear YT is soooooo soft it's gonna break at some point because of my comments (deleted). Dragon Ball SZ falls under the sub-category "arena fighter", therefore making it a "fighting game" in it's own category. You like it or not. (Now UA-cam, stop deleting my comments, thank you very much). 😠
Basically fightung game community is what the art community is, yiu have a older community tgat think theis is the only serious art and will fail ir disregard anything that looks like modern art like anime art manga art game art ect...
This statement gets thrown out a lot and makes the ones saying arena fighters are not fighting games look stupid and honestly they are for not thinking about what they are saying clearly. I think what these people mean when saying that is that arena fighters are not competitive fighting games like Street Fighter, Tekken, MK, even smash. Sure there’s people who play those games competitively but there has never been a major pro scene for many of these games. That’s not to say that arena fighters can’t be competitive fighting games. In my opinion I think sparking zero might actually be the first actually competitive arena fighter. There might be another but I’m not sure. I went into sparking zero expecting a button masher game like all the other arena fighters but was pleasantly surprised to see this game actually has several mechanics you need to learn in order to actually be good at the game and I think that’s awesome. A game that has depth is a game that stays active longer and I’m glad to see sparking zero has this.
For me, It really depends on how deep the mechanics are and how intuitive the system is if pushed to the max. 3rd strike to me is NOT an FG due to the simple existence of the parry mechanic that is only barred by mechanical skill in which if mastered can make everyone obsolete. Naruto Storm (4 and beyond) is def a fighting game - The Kimetsu no Yaiba game is def a fighter - Sparkle Zero is an FG - the upcoming Bleach game is gonna be an FG 100% but games like Jump force and the like ARE NOT FG, The only mechanical skill you can do there is pick the most OP character without having to take account your DP limitations
Bro saying 3rd strike isnt a fighting game is wild, the parry taking actual skill dosent make it one??? An entire games mechanics takes skill to learn and the parry isnt a free win button
It's good that there are people that get it. But it is what it is. I just play tekken 8 when I feel like I want to be 'competitive'. I play DBSZ when I just want me some heavy DB fun. I'll probably be back on Xenoverse 2 soon though.
ARMS is one of the best FGC-catered arena fighters, yet there's barely a tournament scene to speak of (although that's probably more to do with Nintendo being distant towards it and their customers not caring about any grassroots competitive scene that isn't Smash Bros). FGs will always have the stigma of being too hard and unapproachable, even after SF6 did everything it did, and arena fighters based on beloved IPs will likewise always have the stigma of being simplistic power fantasies with no pretense about being "competitive." We don't have to pretend these two different audiences have to integrate with each other or that words don't have meanings. They can coexist separately.
It is a fighting game. But to trying to compare it to street fighter, tekken or even fighters it's different in many ways. I personally believe the competitive aspects of the game should never take priority in a game like this but rather the fun aspect should be prioritized. It's a love letter to one of the most influential animes of all time and the only real changes to the game should be to weed out and nerf unfun game mechanics like yajarobis sensu beans or time outs stalls in DP battles. Balancing the game too much could kill the momentum but the community feedback should take lead over sweaty competitions kinda like smash bros (minus steve, he is a plague on that game, I don't mind minecraft but he bends way too many rules and ruins the flow and fun of a match)
Deep mechanics, and actual attempts at balance are what will determine it for me. When hercule and goku blue are in the same game roster its clear that isnt the case. I have never seen an arena fighter that isn't like this. You can make a tier list in a fighting game and the top tier CAN be better than the low tier for sure but only at higher levels of play and the difference is not significant. In the arena fighter genre hercule doesn't have massive screen filling attacks for instance. End of day balance is the largest reason. That's why you will never see arena fighters take place of prominence at an FGC event.
"Deep mechanics" Super Counters and Vanishes. Can be used at nearly any time so long as you're good, forcing high level fighters to actually vary up their combos so they're harder to break, kinda like some Killer Instinct nonsense. "actual attempts at balance" DP System. Literally does just that. Goku Blue takes up like half your total cost. You can't use him and also use Blue Vegeta, and certainly not SSJ4 Gogeta or Whis (at least not unless you start him in Base where his cost is lower and transform up to Blue). Meanwhile Hercule is practically free. Also Hercule is a JOKE character. An FGC chode like you should understand this concept since Dan Hibiki popularized the concept. Sometimes, characters are intentionally make bad and goofy for whatever reason. "You can make a tier list in a fighting game and the top tier CAN be better than the low tier for sure but only at higher levels of play and the difference is not significant." BT3 has a tier list. And because of the previously mentioned mechanics, any character can realistically beat any other characters outside of maybe Hercule (and even then, he's intentionally made bad, also he had an infinite with Present Bomb) so long as you're good. "In the arena fighter genre hercule doesn't have massive screen filling attacks for instance." Joke character. Like Dan. "End of day balance is the largest reason." Got it. So Marvel isn't a Fighting Game. And yet it most certainly has prominence at Fighting Game Events. Despite the LP MP LK HP, the X-Factor that gets stronger as you lose characters, and the Vergil & Dark Phoenix. All that lack of balance.
Nobody would have a problem with people calling a game an arena fighter if it wasn't for the fact that arena fighter is seen as an insult especially in how it is typically used.
It's not seen as an insult? What is bro smoking? That's literally what it is. Maybe you met some elitist saying otherwise but his word doesn't speak for everyone nor what the term really means.
@@NinjaXFiles I mean that it is kinda used as an insult. Arena fighters as a genre don't have the best reputation outside of some games. This especially feels to be the case when you have someone that wants to distance arena fighters from traditional fighters.
@@Draconaii I prefer arena fighters, 2D ones are lacking and just seem like reskins of eachother those elitists just can't handle the 3rd dimension so they whine about arena fighters
@@pakman0049both of those games are all ready several months to a year old of curse the new game tied to a beloved I.P and nostalgia sequel is going to have good numbers.
My only problem with Budokai Tenkaichi series is that... all the characters feel exactly the same and i feel like we are battling who can master the system mechanics over the character -- whereas in traditional fighting games, it's learning characters AND the system mechanics in great detail similar to irl martial arts. So once two ppl figure out the system mechanics, it just comes down to whichever character has better stats... All the projectiles , even tho they look different, all feel like they shoot in the same direction, the rush attacks are just rush attacks and the big ball attacks all feel far too samey. The Melee "combos" don't feel different either, like they all kinda cover the exact same space on startup and yeah. I', far more excited to play the new Bleach game and hope ppl are having fun with the Budokai game, but it will nvr feel as varied and nuanced as Fighterz and thus nvr feel closer to actual fighting as traditional fighting games. This doesn't mean it can't be fun and I think ppl SHOULD have fun with it but...for me..I just can't get excited to play it for longer than a little bit for the spectacle.
I feel you I originally felt this way about Tenkaichi until i had some players that play the games at a high level break the game down for me. Yes, on the surface, characters seem very much the same, but I can tell you the more you explore the game, character differences start to really show a ton. I am personally more excited for Rebirth of Souls as well, but Sparking Zero is super fun when you understand how the game actually works.
I think the language needs to be cleaned up slightly when discussing this topic. Since the bar is so incredibly low when talking about what makes a fighting game a fighting game, I think the term “Traditional Fighting Game” needs to be used as the new default to get the point across of the type of fighter that is most well known and accepted as a competitively viable type of fighting game. With that distinction being made, DBZ Tenkaichi 9, sorry DBZ Sparking Zero can be said to not be a traditional fighting game and it automatically puts the discussion to bed, with no arguments to be had. DBZ Sparking Zero is not a traditional fighter, just another fun but super unbalanced DBZ arena game.
If you throw hands and energy based attacks(haduken is a kamehameha and no one can change my mind) against another player...its a fighting game. Were not drifting cars here or getting home runs. We are THROWING HANDDDDSSS👀👀👀👀👀👀👀
SO is an arena fighting game, it has everything other fg has SO has ranked, pvp, online lobby and etc. Fg has different categories it’s just not a traditional one
W video as always Ghost tbh everytime I see this conversation I just laugh tbh. People need to understand no matter what fighting game you get into there will always be depth in some type of way or fashion even if the developers didnt intend for it to be that way. Like the amount of people who always say Areana fights is just " button mashy and unbalanced" are the same people who will be mashing in traditional fighting games and people who actually think that all tradtional games are balnced they are DEF NOT! At the end of the day people are all gonna approach games differently it's up to the individual how they want to approach the game no matter what genre it is.
I was about to bring up a question if one were to consider other "various" fighting games such as EA Sports UFC and WWE 2K24 be also consider in the genre until I saw this graph 5:36 on the screen that somewhat confirms it. But it does bring up another question in my head that is probably a really dumb question to even ask and the answer will probably be NO but I still want to ask anyways so here goes. If fighting games consist of players challenging each other in a 1v1 style battle in a arena, does this also applies in games that have an rpg element like Pokemon where there are VGC tournaments that are happening!?
It's def a fighting game. Just because Sparking Zero takes a more casual approach to the genre, doesn't mean it's not a fighting game. FGC elitists need to chill out its not that deep.
It's really simple, if the focus of the game is on 2 people fighting each other, it's a fighting game, the intention is to fight with a player/cpu and everything else is secondary. Games like Elden ring aren't a fighting game because it is designed AROUND pvp. Sparking zero is and that's fighting game, just because it ain't traditional or "people shouldn't be competitive" doesn't make it not a fighting game. Why people have such a big issue with just categorizing a sub-genre is beyond me. There sub genres for rpgs, shooters and platformers. Why do fighting games need to have this problem. You'd think sparking zero fans were aiming for a spot at evo. It's fine to not like arena fighters, but they are fighting games, it's in the damn name.
what keeps it from being a true fighter is just the audience. It's the meme of anime fighters. One comes out every 6 months and the previous one dies while everyone moves on. If ppl stuck with one it could be. Since Smash is by definition a party game originally. It was just a bunch of fan boys held onto that mfer and forced it to be a fighter. A no shower having sweat fest. In smash they have to turn half the game off to be something that is kinda like a true fighter.
Brother it’s illegal to speak so much facts… Imagine having to tailor the game to fit a certain criteria….. because originally the game wasn’t built for competitive play in mind it was built for having fun 🤣. Not saying your arguement is the end all be all, but this is quite a fair point.
My debate on this weird matter is; are you choosing from a roster of characters that fight? Are these characters fighting with their fists in a 1v1 format (teams cannot all fight at once so it's 1v1 at a time)? Are these characters using special abilities like energy blasts like the hadouken? Are matches hype? Then it's a fighting game. Stop trying to be elitist about it. Nobody is saying street fighter or tekken suck, we just love our DRAGON BALL FIGHTING GAME. So chill out, it's a fighting game
Wait until you find out that an older friend of mine considers Valorant a fighting game because it involves.... "two groups fighting eachother with guns" and keeps falling back to "I make video games, so im an authority on this!" (he's an asset flipper, but somehow that makes him a programmer/developer i guess) or.. "my generation is the one who made video games a thing in the first place and it's generation X that does the most heavy lifting in video game making!" None of these comments I see come even close to what nonsense I heard that old geezer yap about LMAO
Arena fighters are just all not very competitive, in sparking you spam just a couple buttons to do all combos and attacks. That just isn't like most skill based games, so i wouldn't call it a fighting game. It's a fighting game like that shrek fighting game is. It is, but it's really even the same genre.
99% of the roster is actually viable. Thanks to mechanics like Super Counters and Vanishing that can be used at nearly any time so long as you can time the inputs. The only characters that really get bent are Hercule (intentionally bad joke character like Dan) and Giants (slow movement, slow attacks, super armor gets negated by stronger fighters robbing them of their one advantage, Super Armor doesn't save them from Blasts, basically the Grapplers of this game). And mind you, this ain't T3, where there were a bunch of unnecessary Great Apes that were all bad, and -1 setups (unvanishables) existed on top of certain moves being better there than in S0 (pretty sure Explosive Madan and Super Explosive Madan got nerfed as did Barrage Death Beam). Also the DP system still exists, with tighter restrictions to prevent you from, say, running 2 10DP characters like Whis and SSJ4 Gogeta. You can't even run Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta together without starting one of them in a weaker form. Whereas you CAN run the whole Ginyu Force, which I'd argument is much better between Ginyu Body Change cheese, Jeice actually being a decent character due to Explosive Wave (basically a Burst), and Burter actually being a Top Tier at least back in T3.
@@espurrseyes42 I'm talking 1v1 ranked but even in dp battles people are using the same strategies. Out of 181 characters 25 or so are seen online ranked.
@@murksmitty Because those are the best strategies. The same way the best strat in all fighting games is to pick the best characters and git gud with that. That doesn't change what I said. Provided you're good enough, it's perfectly reasonable to win with non-Top Tiers in S0, and the DP System exists to aid with that by limiting the use of strong characters like SSJ4 Gogeta.
@@espurrseyes42 your saying git gud but I'm taking about in a ranked environment. In that situation you playing against someone on an equal level to you. You will not win picking anything less than 5 DP vs a guy with equal skill picking a 10 DP character. And I'm being generous most people will be pick 7 dp and up in all ranked solo environments.
@@murksmitty Ranked is based on wins. Your rank doesn't directly correlate to actual skill. You also seem to think DP correlates to a character being good. It doesn't. At least in BT3, Burter was a high tier for a couple of reasons, Jeice was above average, and SSJ2 Adult Gohan was a problem, and the best character in the game was Perfect Form Cell do to having pretty much all the tools that make a character strong. Even Yajirobe was alright because of Senzu, and due to how fast Stocks charge in S0, Yajirobe is actually something of a problem despite being like a 2 cost. So yeah. Git gud. Or find some good low cost characters. Or both. Both ideally.
If i can beat a real person into submission to the point to where they ragequit and DC over losing in a game thats 1 character Vs. 1 character w/ lifebars - its a fighting game
Its true and technically niether is Smash; though it has more elements of a fighting game and has options that make it feel closer to a fighting game. However, at the end of they day; they competative fun.
Arena fighters are fighting games, doesn't matter if you like them are not. The genre is wider than FGC folk think. I love playing Street Fighter, but the game that got me into the genre was Budokai Tenkaichi 3.
Well said!
It really depends on how deep it is. SSBU is def a fighting game same way that Aether rivals as an FG. DBZ sparking zero has to be a fighting game, It has High and Low blocking as well as meter managment and oki setups that being said tho, Not all Arena fighters are fg cuz look at All stars, garbage asf.
@@brupts7297what oki does sparking have? This game has highs and lows but it's not like the traditional fighting game. Traditional fighters do better than arena fighters. Arena fighters are more niche. This is more fun than technical, which is cool, but it doesn't do the same thing guilty gear does for me.
@@juliustaylor9920 Yeah idk why people can’t accept that this simply isn’t ever going to be what people think of when they think of a fighting games. Even if technically/ semantically it is literally 2 people fighting, people who act like arena fighters are in the same category are just being purposely obtuse.
@@brupts7297All Stars is also a fighting game
@@xaviersanchez3498no we are not being purposely obtuse. We are being intellectually honest. It does not matter that arena fighters aren't thought of when people think of fighting games. They are still fighting games by the very definition of the term
"It's not a fighting game cause its not balanced"
Me: Looks at MvC2...
and the Wazzler looking back at me ready to serve me a refund
It shouldn't be, otherwise it wouldn't be true to the anime
Takes an assload of practice and execution and skill to be broken in mvc2. But that's still not the point. Sparking 0 is suppose to be fun.
@@KnigD_SlainDoesn't need to be true to the anime. And if it was true to the anime then Whis should be coded to never get hit and always win
@@noBody-ue6cshe didn't say anything about being broken at the games, he's talking about the objective fact that Marvel versus Capcom is unbalanced yet it is considered a fighting game
@@KnigD_Slainbut it is "balanced" lol i lost count to how many top tier characters i've wasted with yamcha, in the end as long as skill can beat lore there will be balance.
"It's not a fighting game."
"Oh what do you do in the game then?"
"Fight mostly."
Fighting game refers to the genre though. Arena fighters aren't apart of the traditional fighting genre.
@@CodyslxTekken and Marvel versus Capcom are also not a part of the traditional fighting genre. They are still fighting games. Your criteria for what makes a fighting game is lacking logic
@ThisisKyle Based on gameplay mechanics they quite literally are "traditional" fighting games. There is no argument here.
@@CodyslxBro thought he was cooking …. Like yes , SFXT and MVC are infact traditional fighting games 🤣
Arena fighters don't have the same "flow" or depth compared to traditional 2D fighting games. You can't honestly tell me games like Sparking Zero are comparable to something like Tekken Tag Tournament or Guilty Gear where most of the roster of characters feel unique and have their own gimmicks with how to play as them?
who cares. is it fun or not?
it’s fun but it’s not a fighting game also it’s unbelievably unbalanced
@@ImSakataGintokiComeAtMe why isn't it a fighting game?
@@ImSakataGintokiComeAtMe Pay to win/lose skins looking at you on shooting games like Fortnite
It is a fighting game and to be specific a 5d fighting game. There are other games of this type. It has all the basics of 2d fight games except super inputs. But you can move in 3d space making tekken or king of fighting side steps.
The game has a world tour story mode...
What reason are you saying it's not a fighting game? Because it's un balanced then you never played Marvel or fist of the north star those games are busted!
@@KnigD_Slain what are u talking about?
*It is a fighting game, just not a traditional fighter.*
Traditional = good
Idk why people cant understand that concept, it evolved
It’s because the ones stuck in 2d fighting games that can’t venture out are jealous that sparking zero outsold their entire collection of favorite fighting games combined and in 3 days its community is bigger than their fighting game.
@@NoxLegend1 Who are you talking about? Doesn’t MK still outsell this game like every release? I don’t remember this game selling 15 million copies like MK 11 did. Even trash MK 1 still currently has more sold; what does that information do for you?
@@djandjb1fuck no and fuck no 😂
Explain why Power Stone was at EVO this year?
Explain to me why Def Jam: Fight for NY was at Combo Breaker this year?
Explain to me why Ergheiz was at CEOtaku this year?
Arena Fighters are fighters and some of them have a competitive scene.
These gatekeepers are fgc clowns that simply suck at Arena Fighters. Plain and simple.
Same goes for Platform fighters such as Smash, Rivals, and Brawlhalla.
facts
Ergheiz had to be someone trolling
Mario Kart was at EVO in 2006. Mario Kart might be the best fighting game, tbh.
Not hard to be good at an arena fighter I’m already rank A lmao… they are fighting games definitely but they don’t take as much skill as traditional or even platform fighters… like Wendy’s workers prepare food but they aren’t skillful chef
@@cartoonvideos5game surprisingly has depth. Just never took off because the game is obtuse af control wise
i absolutely can’t stand this argument. people keep saying “arena fighters aren’t fighters” and my argument is “repeat that second word one more time for me”. yes the mechanics are different and controls are different, but they are fighting nonetheless. that’s the main objective.
Agreed. I think people focus more on whether or not it's featured on a stage at EVO or other adjacent venues.
People are too bent up over it being traditional rather than accepting it for being a sub-genre of "fighting games" as a whole.
Seen similar arguments about third-person shooters and where they stand in their respective genre. I'm convinced people can't just be happy for other games or something nowadays lol
It's more like it not a fighting game like smash is
@@SubotimalRath
Everyone can agree it's a fighting game but not comparable to the other games in question. Some would argue it just doesn't meet the criteria. If you break down what sets it apart especially with developer intent.
To put it simple: It's a Fighting Game, but it's not a "Fighting Game".
Okay. So it's a Shooter too because you shoot Ki.
At this point we need to just call "fighting games" something else. It's really unintuitive for the wider public to understand that "fighting game" as a term refers to a very specific subset of "games where people fight". The same way that "shooting game" can refer to DoDonPachi (shmup), Doom (FPS), Vanquish (TPS), and Virtua Cop (lightgun game).
"Traditional fighting game" could work, but I don't think it's good enough, since we still have divides between traditional 2D and 3D fighting games. I don't have a perfect solution, but I think a genre rename/rebrand is probably the way forward. We don't call FPS games "Doom clones" any more as a prime example.
This is a nuanced take that I completely agree with. The terminology itself is what leads to a lot of confusion and people making bad faith arguments
there are sub-genres like anime fighters (guilty gear, melty blood), platform fighters (smash, brawlhalla), 3d fighters (tekken, virtual fighter), arena fighters (sparking zero, hinokami chronicles), tag team/assist fighters (mvc, dbfz), etc.
you might actually be onto something
@@bunnybreaker we don't call shooting games "doom clones" is the perfect description.
You're right we don't call all FPS games Doom clones we also don't make a distinction between a casual FPS in a hardcore FPS because we fundamentally understand that they're both first person shooters. Just like how there are hardcore fighting games like Street Fighter and Casual fighting games like sparking zero they both are by the very definition of the term fighting games stop trying to make a distinction when there isn't any
i hate this "elitism" that some people in the fgc have towards non-traditional fighting games. it reminds me of that one legendary reddit post where some neck bearded greaseball rants about nintendo games, jump and runs, life sims, etc. not being "real games"
“I play Tekken and Street Fighter so I know for a fact that SZ isn’t a fighting game ☝🏾🤓”
there is a reason why Nintendo hate tournament, they don't want to linked to those kind of people because its a PR nightmare
@@inthecutagainit isn't tho. Not a bad thing tho
The “real game” thing isn’t necessarily elitist. Minecraft creative mode isn’t a game. Cities Skylines isn’t a game. Powder Toy etc…
@@inthecutagainSZ is not a fighting game
People should actually play sparking zero before they talk. The game surprised me.
Or watch the video some guy made on T3's Tier List going over advanced mechanics, tech, and in general what makes characters good or not.
99 percent of the people talking trash haven’t played it. They think that this is some Naruto type game but in reality it’s the most mechanically deep and complex arena fighter ever made.
Well i mean its a game with a healthbar and people throwing hands imma just say its a fighting game at that point.
two health bars
two dudes duking it out
its a fighting game, nuff said
Agreed 👍
So Mike Tyson's punch out is a fighting game lol, this is not a fighting game get over it lmao
@@StudioFocus-hh7dxMike Tyson's Punch-Out is a single player fighting game. Sorry but you're objectively wrong
@@StudioFocus-hh7dx literally yes, you just proved my point further
@@ThisisKyle So is Xenoverse 2 a fighting game, this game is more similar to that than any other fighting game
I will never understand why this is an argument. People will make anything competitive if it has 1v1. There's a scene for rock, paper, scissors of all things!
Did people forget about sub-genres? Platform fighters and arena fighters are exactly that. Spun off from the traditional genre due to aspects not normally found in the original. Wether they're balanced or competitively viable doesn't matter, people will make a scene out of anything because we're competitive by nature. If action rpgs are a sub-genre of rpgs, but considered rpgs anyway, then the same applies here. Or is anyone gonna argue how Dark Souls isn't an rpg?
Although i consider this game a fighting game, i find it difficult that people will maintain an active competitive scene for a long time. This game doesn't even have proper training mode, the current meta is trash and the devs have already said they don't care about balance.
These could all change, but until then, I will personally only play it as a side game.
best comment i've seen so far. sure it may have fighting game elements, but it hasn't been designed for competitive play, which is a pretty big factor that separates a fighting game and a party game to me. remember, they make the budokai games for kids....
I honestly like that this topic is being revisited. I hope they allow it to be part of main events for a little while.
The entry numbers would go crazy
some places are hosting i just dont think it will ever hit big places like evo or whatever. I know Globku is gonna host a big tournament for it eventually.
Why would it though? It didn’t happen for the other 8 or 9 DBZ Tenkaichi style of games, why would this one be any different?
i don't think it's the style of game they want at something like EVO tho, it's not that SZ isn't a fighting game but like UFC games it doesn't fit the energy and image of something like EVO, maybe AnimEVO but not a normal evo
Although I also consider this a fighting game, I think it will have the same problems as mortal Kombat has. Because the game was made for a mostly casual fan base, players simply won't leave their houses to compete in locals or major tournaments.
still more fun to watch then a iron man infinity combo in MVC2.
If arena fighters are fighting games then so are wrestling games.
Facts. Talk yo sh*t.
I mean you do fight so correct
Correct, wrestlers don't count
If wrestling games are fighting games then so does Basketball games and soccer games. #sarcasm.
@@megamikex8163 indeed you're fighting eachother for balls
Hot take: Dragon Ball Sparking! ZERO IS a Fighting Game, just a different type of fighting game than the 2D ones
Facts aren't hot takes.
@@Apotheosis0
They are to the Fighting Game Chodes (FGC).
I'm going to have ask but can you really say that is sincere take when you have to stop and than and a sentence to context it like theres nothing wrong with Sparking Zero not being a fighting game at all
@@addex1236
If FF16 is an RPG despite playing like a wannabe DMC, an action game, then Sparking Zero and other Arena Fighters are Fighting Games regardless of not playing like Street Fighter. Subgenres are a thing. If it's a game about Fighting (other people), it's a Fighting Game.
Agreed. I don't really get how some people will pass Smash and not DBZ Sparking Zero.
"These chars can't beam struggle!" Dan is in most street fighters. Shut it.
I'm a simple man. For me if the main focus of the game is punching people so their health bar goes down and you win, then it's a fighting game.
This entire argument is caused by the difference in definition of "Fighting game". The way you define fighting games, I would consider sparking and super smash bros fighting games. However, a lot of people treat "fighting games" as a synonym for traditional fighting game, like myself, and so don't brand sparking or smash as a fighting game.
I feel that "anime/arena" fighter fits better, made a whole bunch of new DBZ fans with sparking that I couldn't with fighterz
Honestly as someone who’s been falling off as of late when regarding to video games I gotta say i was surprised when i realized 3 whole hours passes me by and i still wanted to play more. No game has been able to lock me in like that in years
I say they are. They're a subgenre of fighting games like Smash.
Can't get mad at Sparking 0 fans asking Rolfmonger to elaborate then calling him dumb for refusing to elaborate besides I'm right you're wrong. That's not how you engage when someone is asking a serious question after saying Sparking 0 isn't a FG.
Balance shouldn't even be talked about. MKX is disgustingly unfair and broken and it's one of the greatest FGs of all time. If anything I don't wanna play a balanced FG my favorite experiences have been from unfair games
There's a reason why it's called an "Arena *_Fighter"_* omg
Technically arena fighters are different but it’s still a sub genre of fighting games
FGC should take SparkingZero as a W for the scene. Real 1s here to compete w passion stick together.
It's a DBZ simulator and a fighting game at the same time. Ppl need to accept it
@@prolifik302na dbfz has it beat
So a game with fighting in it, isn't a fighting game? Am I planet Earth?
Edit: People get worked up over the most basic shit lmao
Devil May Cry is all fighting it's not a fighting game, are you slow?
List of Fighting games according to you:
Minecraft, Yakuza, Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, Resident Evil 4, God of War, Zone of the Enders, Mass Effect, Metroid
@@RetroDragonflyYou people are so dishonest
@@RetroDragonfly Except in those games you only fight AIs and if you fight other players it's an optionnal mode.
While in fighting games, INCLUDING ARENA FIGHTERS, the main intended experience is a 1v1 pvp with AI fights and special conditions being secondary
@StudioFocus-hh7dx Pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about.
That is a single player game.
I think a fighter is where you can fight a cpu or another player 1v1 and that makes Sparking Zero a fighter no?
Personally I don't think that the distinction between the two genres isn't just about "balance". There's plenty of beloved traditional FGs that are extremely unbalanced (MVC2, UMVC3), and even in the system mechanics can degenerate into infinites (XvSF) and cheap shit (DBFZ S2 Snap).
I think what it comes down to is the actual freedom of decision making that the game gives you, and there is no bigger decision than your CHARACTER choice. Because it will dictate the playstyle you have and lets you express yourself through a character the way you want. This "learning a character" aspect (and therefore, character to character interaction aspect) is non-existent in arena brawlers.
In an effort to allow fans of the IP to play their favorites without hassle, the characters end up being homogeneous with superficial changes like the color of their energy attacks or the cinematic that plays during their rush. So yeah, while there can be tier lists and stuff, its only on the basis of which character can do the same things but better, since unique tools and combinations of tools just aren't a thing in these games. And combos are defined by the game, and that structure can be repeated for all the characters, however many there may be. It's an intentional choice to pick style over substance.
This accessible design extends into the system mechanics as well. The arena itself being a massive selling point for fans for an immersive experience, but for a fighting game, it actually becomes a detriment because its size and its camera make neutral and spacing interactions impossible, and the game vacuums your attacks to make up for that. So the focus is shifted to positioning over spacing.
To me, it's the difference between playing a game where you and your opponent are intentionally making decisions at a much higher rate with more complexity and the addition of character specific interaction, and playing with a virtual action figure treasure trove simulation that allows for an immersive experience with much more characters without the devs having to worry about making unique and complex movesets for each and everyone they include.
try to convince me otherwise. Mario tennis aces on the Nintendo switch is a fighting game.
It has jabs in the form of topspins and flat shots. It has mixups in the form of slices and drop shots. It has special attacks in the form of tricks And a literal super move when your meter fills up. Each player has an HP bar in the form of four hits And you can TKO by breaking the racket
Haha dude, I used to say this! It even has Roman Cancels and parry!
I think this varies on what individual people consider “fighting games” and what they’re referring to when they say fighting games with no specifications.
it's just not a fighting game that traditional fighting game enjoyers would typically like
Yeah that’s fine, but why are they being so toxic about it? It’s like they hate arena fighters and the people who play them, there’s no reason to be so hostile about it like a lot of these FGC guys are doing.
@@DoritosBurger because it's the internet.
i like to compare the internet to being in traffic: someone in front of you does something that inconveniences you, you start berating them, hating them, you get angry etc.
but that's just a primitive impulse that can exist because of emotional distance and anonymity to the other person.
you'd never act this way to the other person if they were in front of you in the same room.
it's important to realise online and real life are and can be very different. don't use twitter, or other social media and most discrimination and actual animosity will vanish from your life
Of all the Budokai Tenkaichi, Sparking Zero is the MOST close to a real fighting game. It has actual neutral where people will be sidestepping and moving back and forth and blocking with goddamn nothing actually happening because both players are respecting eachother, only for both players to ultimately grab and then a clash happens and it's the hypest shit possible in that very moment.
Yeah SZ is a real fighting game. But i do kinda see why many fcg folks hate the comparison, since DBZ SZ is a Dragon ball game at it's core and many people buy it cuz it's DragonBall. Hell, many players cant even do combo and Counter lmao. While traditional fighter are trapped in The HELL of Hardcore gaming. You cant really compare Hardcore VS casual. Now Naruto Storm is what i consider to be a non-fighiting game, that game is so dump down lmao😂
@@huynghiepduyou can absolutely compare hardcore versus casual. Also Ultimate Ninja Storm is still a fighting game even if it's dumbed down
@@ThisisKyle yeah maybe you can say Ninja storm is fighting game. But i mean i very bad one lmao. Even Anime Game Fan dislike storm lmao.
Also, it's not like you CANT compare them but i mean it's pointless. Ofcourse DBZ SZ is gonna be more successful and more fun. No need to think about that bruh Casual always win against Hardcore. Now the people Who Said DBZ SZ is not worth the Comparison is Just Pure Hating on Anime game lmao. It's quite the Opposite, street fighters or tekken will always lose to casual game lmao.
(I do think you play casual game VS hardcore game for different things. I would play Dbz Sz for fun even if it'a competitive while my goals in traditional fighter is to do a TOD or A super long and hard combo, since it'a hardcore, i want to feel that feeling.
You can compare but why compare 2 different things? Again, you cant sag which one is better because both are good and different.
Still Ninja storm sucks ass, the old Clash of Ninja games are way BETTER
@@huynghiepduif I'm completely fine with people saying that Ninja Storm is a bad fighting game just as long as they are honest with themselves and admit that by the definition of the term they are fighting games
@@ThisisKyle yeah. Still i cant believe people think DBZ SZ is not worth the comparison lmao. Like Street fighter ever sold more than DB FZ. Fighting game are not that big out side of rich countries. In my contry maybe 1 of 10 guy know about SF, but 8 of 10 will shout out KamehameHAAAAAAA. You need to be big without being a fighting game first to be a fighting game that sold
They're all fighting games. Just different kinds. Some are traditional, others arena, and others platform. It's like saying " oh this game isn't an RPG because it's not turn based ". No, it's still an RPG. Lol
EXACTLY!!!!
Good point Persona 5 and Skyrim are very different, but both are RPG's.
@@SSP2476but the difference being you can Persona 5 and Skyrim to the same roots with simmalr goals Street fighter 6 wants to be a competition it wants to compete sparking zero wants to adapt dragon ball and I mean adapt in its purest form like it wants you to be able to remake those moment you love and it dose it well very well but it dosent want to do the same thing as Tekken Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat so why are we are acting like its the same damn thing
Can people just say it’s not a “traditional fighting game” already???
LITERALLY JUST SAY TRADITIONAL.
IT’S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD.
It could be so simple but Its FGC elitists you're talking to...they are high on their own BS and are allergic to nuance of any kind.
I hate gatekeeping like this. I actually think the idea of having intentionally unbalanced characters with differing "cost" to put on a competitive team is super under explored. You could pick 2 really strong characters, or have 5 weak characters and it's entirely up to you which you value more.
Arena fighters and traditional fighters are fighting games so here is more about what you vibe with more. AF are more loose and unbalanced yet fun while TF have a more thigh combat sistem and depth and are design to be more competitive
If you fight in the game its a fighting game. Whether its competitively viable is a whole other conversation.
Isnt umvc3 played competitively that games soo gucking unbalanced. Vergil can 1 v 3 every fucking character other than vergil
yeah but tbf that game is also in a genre known for wacky balance, it doesn't help that the game was developed during a rough period, the game is unfinished, there's a large amount of stuff the team wanted to add but never got to due to an earthquake or something.
Even with that there are a fair amount of people who don't like seeing UMVC3 either, game is fun but like a lot of stuff from the older era it's most definitely not a bastion of balance.
@@stubbyducker6495 X factor is what breaks it to be fair.
Also, that game was in the “before patches” Era. But yeah, that game is hilariously unbalanced, as most team fighters are.
Bruh who gets to gatekeep the term "fighting"? Technically every game that isn't sims or sports could be "fighting" smh
You make a fair point. Because that’s all this is at the end of the day. At what point does something like DMC be considered a fighting game ??
If Sparking Zero is not a fighting game because it's not balanced then Dota 2 is not a MOBA, Halo isn't a shooter, and Starcraft isn't an RTS.
people really need to give arena fighters the credit they deserve as viable fighters for high level competitive play, I understand sz is a comparatively easy game compared to traditional fighters but the challenge comes with extra 3d space and near frame perfect inputs needed for counters, and being able to counter virtually anything is going to make for some crazy matches when we have sweats who can vanish/z counter/super counter perfect every time, also every character is viable is you have your fundamentals down im destroying gogetas daily w base roshi and Chiaotzu
It is a fighting game. Just not a traditional-based fighting game. It's like comparing Poker and Yugioh, both are card games but not the same type of card game. You cant say which is better than which they are so different. But Sparking Zero is what i consider to be a traditional based Arena fighter. It's good and has similar stuff to 3d fighter like Tekken. Cool. Naruto Storm is what i consider A TRASH ARENA FUGHTER. ALSO DBZ SZ Is not complicated at all dont compares it to traditional fighting since many games are way simpler than it, yet Tekken still have a 50+ movelist lmao.
Still, you cant say DBZ SZ is successful as a fighting game, it is only successfull since it's a DBZ game. If this is a brand new game with original character it wont be as successful as it's rightnow in addition to the fact that this it's a Consumer friendly game while traditional fighting game are traped in the Hell of Hardcore gaming. Same with streetfighter or tekken they have history, they are successful because of that history.
Now a fightinf game that i think that is truly successful is something like GgStrive, Guilty Gear used to a very hardcore type of game, but with strive many average gamers look at it and go "this looks cool and the animation is so good", buy the game have fun with Sol, see HappgChaos then Quit. Atleast it actually makes people buy the game. Hell, it going to have it's Anime (and it's not some cringe ass netflix show).
I won't say arena fighters are not fighting games, but I don't play them competitively and never have. I just never got the appeal and they aren't for me. Let people play what they want is all I say.
The appeal, at least for me, is that they just don’t take the commitment your standard fighting game does, while still allowing you to interact with a somewhat competitive community.
I used to play all the big ones, at least most of them, but the game that made me realize why I prefer arena fighters was Tekken 8. It’s a great game, but I just dont have the time to put in to get competent with them. Between working graveyard shift, spending time with the wife, seeing my friends, the last thing I want to do in a game is lab a character for hours when I most likely won’t retain half of what I spent the hours doing.
But with an arena fighter, I don’t have that nearly as bad. There are things to learn, but I can go into practice and learn most what I need to know in an hour or two, then I can actually start interacting with other players.
By the end of the day they’re all fighting games
Notice how he barely mentioned Mortal Kombat 1 in this video
Shows you how ass the game is 🤷🏿♂️
Fantastic video.
I don't have anything else to add as MMORPGs are my main genre, but I just want you to know that I i respect how you covered your topic in a concise manner.
I understand this argument, but I don't agree with this argument.
It would be like me saying ff7 remake is not an rpg, because it is not turn based like the original. Just as dumb a statement.
5:10 bro wym, that combo is perfectly balanced and reasonable.
(also bring back makoto season 3)
It would have been considered a fighter if the genre haven't been releasing slop the past decades.
I completely agree just just let me let me go back in time a little bit marvel versus Capcom all three of them are broken all three
The producer who supervised the game, the companies that rank the game, & companies that sell the game all call it or have it under the genre of fighting games.
Idk why people are arguing this 😆 it is a fighting game. It’s different from Tekken, SF, MvC, & smash but it is still a fighting game.
lol, Borderlands, Destiny, and CoD all fall under the bracket 'FPS', which like 'Fighting game' is a category. We have sub-genres for a reason tho.
Arena fighters are fighting games. They just approach the genre differently compared to traditional fighting games. If Smash got to EVO so many times despite not being a "proper" fighting game then Sparking Zero (and other arena fighters) can be considered one too.
(Also, I like how some people bring button mashing when games like BBTag exists and many modern FGs have auto combos)
I thought Tekken would be higher when it comes to the amount of mechanics tbh
Tekken has a good amount of mehcnaics, but the thing is it has a lot of mechanical depth. Mechanical density and mechanical depth are two different things.
I think it's less of a distinction in genre and more of a "I'm sick of hearing about a game that relies on the IP be compared to games that are meant to stand on their own" type of deal.
No shit this dargon ball merchandise did better than a video game with its own IP.
Fighting Glgames are almost indie games when compared to games that rely on anime IP.
It's like comparing ghost of Tsushima to beat em up games.
I think it would be better to compare it to other dragon ball games than to street fighter.
It's just annoying to hear someone flex on numbers that are just a reflection of the IP itself.
Even then this argument doesn't hold because a lot of the biggest traditional fighting game franchises have been around as long as Dragonball so at that point wouldn't they all be coasting off IP. Street Fighter pre-dates Dragonball by 2 years because SF was made in 1987 and DB in 1989, and MK came 3 years later in 1992 and Tekken after that in 1994. It's not like these franchises aren't well known either or some obscure indie titles, because they're global phenomena that have lasted over 30+ years at this point.
There are also traditinal fighting games based off of huge IP that flopped as well. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite and Power Rangers Battle for the Grid are 2 that come to mind, and while Battle for the Grid may have a small but dedicated community, MvC Infinite is widely hated and said to have essentially killed the MvC franchise.
To answer a comment here and also anyone that comes with this argument and the video too.
"It's not a fighting game."
"Oh what do you do in the game then?"
"Fight mostly."
So that also applies to WoW, since it has PVP, and pokemon? After all, you are "fighting" other opponents there too. Because if you are trying to be a smartass with technicalities, I can do that too.
There is a reason why the distinction is made between THOSE (including smash) games and everyone else in the genre. Does it mean you can't make games that make said distinction fuzzier? No, of course not, but simply putting them on the same "level" or better said "group" is a mistake and ends up in confusion. Because if so, later on we end up with discussions online of people trying to make the argument that they are the same when they are not. Or you wonder why, even as a joke, donkey compared this game to tekken? Or why people that argued that smash was a real fighting game couldn't even make a hadoken?
You technically shoot in both CoD and Doom, yet we make the distinction between those two because you can't compare them. The same for games like DMC and other action games, as well as RTS and MOBAS, despite these last two share a lot of mechanics and 80% of controls.
I'm not gonna sit here and act like Arena Fighters ain't fighters. They definitely are. What I will argue however is how difficult a game like Sparking Zero would be to balance for competitive viability. How many characters you would have to ban from comp play because they have something broken that you just can't really deal with or something that just inherently gives them an advantage. Coming from the Def Jam FFNY Community we have like 20+ characters that we've had to specifically ban from Standard Tier Play because their kits or stats are just way too busted for most of the cast to deal with. So maybe if you could Balance a Sparking Zero that way it could work, but that takes A LOT of time and investment to do something like that and have a majority of the scene agree with those decisions.
Bandai Might balance, but I I'm 50/50 on that. If they listen to people that are adamant about no changes, then it won't. I do however hope they are able to take the long view and go from there. But if not, community rules are the way to go.
super smash bros ultimate has 80plus characters, I think and it is considered the most balanced smash bros. Most characters are competitively viable. It can be done.
@@dripfoe_3307 Smash Ultimate has a lot of flaws even with that though, It's fairly well balanced by smash standards but it's not hard considering it's up against Brawl and 4, and even then the last DLC wave has kind of ruined the balance, Ultimate has been one of the only games to never have ban arguments but with Steve and the amount of bs his players find every week it's looking realistic that he'll be banned
Even then Ult is a poor comparison because Sparking Zero has over double the roster size of Ultimate and that games has glaring flaws in balance, add in that most Arena Fighters are not balanced for compeition it makes the chance of of it ending up well balanced hard, i do also just think that the fact that even.
@@illford Fair enough
@@dripfoe_3307 But not 182 tho, i can't even imagine trying to balance 182 characters 😅
Oh my God I swear YT is soooooo soft it's gonna break at some point because of my comments (deleted).
Dragon Ball SZ falls under the sub-category "arena fighter", therefore making it a "fighting game" in it's own category. You like it or not.
(Now UA-cam, stop deleting my comments, thank you very much). 😠
Correct it’s a sub genre under the umbrella “fighting game” pretty simple
Bro arena fighter has fighter in the name, how is it not a fighting game?
You just exposed people’s stupidity with one sentence.
Basically fightung game community is what the art community is, yiu have a older community tgat think theis is the only serious art and will fail ir disregard anything that looks like modern art like anime art manga art game art ect...
This statement gets thrown out a lot and makes the ones saying arena fighters are not fighting games look stupid and honestly they are for not thinking about what they are saying clearly. I think what these people mean when saying that is that arena fighters are not competitive fighting games like Street Fighter, Tekken, MK, even smash. Sure there’s people who play those games competitively but there has never been a major pro scene for many of these games. That’s not to say that arena fighters can’t be competitive fighting games. In my opinion I think sparking zero might actually be the first actually competitive arena fighter. There might be another but I’m not sure. I went into sparking zero expecting a button masher game like all the other arena fighters but was pleasantly surprised to see this game actually has several mechanics you need to learn in order to actually be good at the game and I think that’s awesome. A game that has depth is a game that stays active longer and I’m glad to see sparking zero has this.
I can’t believe this has to be said but good job bro. If I owned the Oscars, you are definitely winning one.
For me, It really depends on how deep the mechanics are and how intuitive the system is if pushed to the max. 3rd strike to me is NOT an FG due to the simple existence of the parry mechanic that is only barred by mechanical skill in which if mastered can make everyone obsolete. Naruto Storm (4 and beyond) is def a fighting game - The Kimetsu no Yaiba game is def a fighter - Sparkle Zero is an FG - the upcoming Bleach game is gonna be an FG 100% but games like Jump force and the like ARE NOT FG, The only mechanical skill you can do there is pick the most OP character without having to take account your DP limitations
Bro saying 3rd strike isnt a fighting game is wild, the parry taking actual skill dosent make it one??? An entire games mechanics takes skill to learn and the parry isnt a free win button
Wrestling games, UFC, boxing and platformer fighters like Smash are also fighting games.
It's good that there are people that get it. But it is what it is. I just play tekken 8 when I feel like I want to be 'competitive'. I play DBSZ when I just want me some heavy DB fun. I'll probably be back on Xenoverse 2 soon though.
As long as its fun i don't care
Arena fighters are fun because the ability to smash people through the environments are more fun and engaging.
ARMS is one of the best FGC-catered arena fighters, yet there's barely a tournament scene to speak of (although that's probably more to do with Nintendo being distant towards it and their customers not caring about any grassroots competitive scene that isn't Smash Bros).
FGs will always have the stigma of being too hard and unapproachable, even after SF6 did everything it did, and arena fighters based on beloved IPs will likewise always have the stigma of being simplistic power fantasies with no pretense about being "competitive."
We don't have to pretend these two different audiences have to integrate with each other or that words don't have meanings. They can coexist separately.
It is a fighting game. But to trying to compare it to street fighter, tekken or even fighters it's different in many ways.
I personally believe the competitive aspects of the game should never take priority in a game like this but rather the fun aspect should be prioritized.
It's a love letter to one of the most influential animes of all time and the only real changes to the game should be to weed out and nerf unfun game mechanics like yajarobis sensu beans or time outs stalls in DP battles. Balancing the game too much could kill the momentum but the community feedback should take lead over sweaty competitions kinda like smash bros (minus steve, he is a plague on that game, I don't mind minecraft but he bends way too many rules and ruins the flow and fun of a match)
Deep mechanics, and actual attempts at balance are what will determine it for me. When hercule and goku blue are in the same game roster its clear that isnt the case. I have never seen an arena fighter that isn't like this. You can make a tier list in a fighting game and the top tier CAN be better than the low tier for sure but only at higher levels of play and the difference is not significant. In the arena fighter genre hercule doesn't have massive screen filling attacks for instance. End of day balance is the largest reason. That's why you will never see arena fighters take place of prominence at an FGC event.
"Deep mechanics"
Super Counters and Vanishes. Can be used at nearly any time so long as you're good, forcing high level fighters to actually vary up their combos so they're harder to break, kinda like some Killer Instinct nonsense.
"actual attempts at balance"
DP System. Literally does just that. Goku Blue takes up like half your total cost. You can't use him and also use Blue Vegeta, and certainly not SSJ4 Gogeta or Whis (at least not unless you start him in Base where his cost is lower and transform up to Blue). Meanwhile Hercule is practically free. Also Hercule is a JOKE character. An FGC chode like you should understand this concept since Dan Hibiki popularized the concept. Sometimes, characters are intentionally make bad and goofy for whatever reason.
"You can make a tier list in a fighting game and the top tier CAN be better than the low tier for sure but only at higher levels of play and the difference is not significant."
BT3 has a tier list. And because of the previously mentioned mechanics, any character can realistically beat any other characters outside of maybe Hercule (and even then, he's intentionally made bad, also he had an infinite with Present Bomb) so long as you're good.
"In the arena fighter genre hercule doesn't have massive screen filling attacks for instance."
Joke character. Like Dan.
"End of day balance is the largest reason."
Got it. So Marvel isn't a Fighting Game. And yet it most certainly has prominence at Fighting Game Events. Despite the LP MP LK HP, the X-Factor that gets stronger as you lose characters, and the Vergil & Dark Phoenix. All that lack of balance.
Nobody would have a problem with people calling a game an arena fighter if it wasn't for the fact that arena fighter is seen as an insult especially in how it is typically used.
It's not seen as an insult? What is bro smoking? That's literally what it is. Maybe you met some elitist saying otherwise but his word doesn't speak for everyone nor what the term really means.
@@NinjaXFiles I mean that it is kinda used as an insult. Arena fighters as a genre don't have the best reputation outside of some games. This especially feels to be the case when you have someone that wants to distance arena fighters from traditional fighters.
@@Draconaii I prefer arena fighters, 2D ones are lacking and just seem like reskins of eachother
those elitists just can't handle the 3rd dimension so they whine about arena fighters
@@scribdfukkyu9630than explain Tekken
To be fair alot of those arena fighters are in fact bad game made cheap
man I wish Sparking Zero became the mainstream face of fighting games, just to piss off the 2D elitist
It kinda currently is given its player count compared to SF6 and Tekken 8. Especially on release day numbers
@@pakman0049both of those games are all ready several months to a year old of curse the new game tied to a beloved I.P and nostalgia sequel is going to have good numbers.
Ironically we also got weebs saying Sparking isnt' a fighting game to try and justify it's terrible balancing loool. 🥴🥴
My only problem with Budokai Tenkaichi series is that... all the characters feel exactly the same and i feel like we are battling who can master the system mechanics over the character -- whereas in traditional fighting games, it's learning characters AND the system mechanics in great detail similar to irl martial arts. So once two ppl figure out the system mechanics, it just comes down to whichever character has better stats... All the projectiles , even tho they look different, all feel like they shoot in the same direction, the rush attacks are just rush attacks and the big ball attacks all feel far too samey. The Melee "combos" don't feel different either, like they all kinda cover the exact same space on startup and yeah.
I', far more excited to play the new Bleach game and hope ppl are having fun with the Budokai game, but it will nvr feel as varied and nuanced as Fighterz and thus nvr feel closer to actual fighting as traditional fighting games. This doesn't mean it can't be fun and I think ppl SHOULD have fun with it but...for me..I just can't get excited to play it for longer than a little bit for the spectacle.
You have not played Tenkaichi and no one cares about Rebirth of Mid
I feel you
I originally felt this way about Tenkaichi until i had some players that play the games at a high level break the game down for me.
Yes, on the surface, characters seem very much the same, but I can tell you the more you explore the game, character differences start to really show a ton. I am personally more excited for Rebirth of Souls as well, but Sparking Zero is super fun when you understand how the game actually works.
I think the language needs to be cleaned up slightly when discussing this topic. Since the bar is so incredibly low when talking about what makes a fighting game a fighting game, I think the term “Traditional Fighting Game” needs to be used as the new default to get the point across of the type of fighter that is most well known and accepted as a competitively viable type of fighting game. With that distinction being made, DBZ Tenkaichi 9, sorry DBZ Sparking Zero can be said to not be a traditional fighting game and it automatically puts the discussion to bed, with no arguments to be had. DBZ Sparking Zero is not a traditional fighter, just another fun but super unbalanced DBZ arena game.
If you throw hands and energy based attacks(haduken is a kamehameha and no one can change my mind) against another player...its a fighting game. Were not drifting cars here or getting home runs. We are THROWING HANDDDDSSS👀👀👀👀👀👀👀
hey!! haduken isn’t a kamehameha 😡😡😡
shinkuu haduken is a kamehameha 😇
SO is an arena fighting game, it has everything other fg has SO has ranked, pvp, online lobby and etc. Fg has different categories it’s just not a traditional one
This is kinda like saying your little brother isn’t your sibling because he doesn’t resemble your parents as much as you do 🤣
I mean if the kid is adopted he is biologically not your sibling if you want to go there like that's not a good argument
W video as always Ghost tbh everytime I see this conversation I just laugh tbh. People need to understand no matter what fighting game you get into there will always be depth in some type of way or fashion even if the developers didnt intend for it to be that way. Like the amount of people who always say Areana fights is just " button mashy and unbalanced" are the same people who will be mashing in traditional fighting games and people who actually think that all tradtional games are balnced they are DEF NOT! At the end of the day people are all gonna approach games differently it's up to the individual how they want to approach the game no matter what genre it is.
I was about to bring up a question if one were to consider other "various" fighting games such as EA Sports UFC and WWE 2K24 be also consider in the genre until I saw this graph 5:36 on the screen that somewhat confirms it.
But it does bring up another question in my head that is probably a really dumb question to even ask and the answer will probably be NO but I still want to ask anyways so here goes.
If fighting games consist of players challenging each other in a 1v1 style battle in a arena, does this also applies in games that have an rpg element like Pokemon where there are VGC tournaments that are happening!?
It's def a fighting game. Just because Sparking Zero takes a more casual approach to the genre, doesn't mean it's not a fighting game. FGC elitists need to chill out its not that deep.
It's really simple, if the focus of the game is on 2 people fighting each other, it's a fighting game, the intention is to fight with a player/cpu and everything else is secondary. Games like Elden ring aren't a fighting game because it is designed AROUND pvp. Sparking zero is and that's fighting game, just because it ain't traditional or "people shouldn't be competitive" doesn't make it not a fighting game. Why people have such a big issue with just categorizing a sub-genre is beyond me. There sub genres for rpgs, shooters and platformers. Why do fighting games need to have this problem. You'd think sparking zero fans were aiming for a spot at evo. It's fine to not like arena fighters, but they are fighting games, it's in the damn name.
I know God gave us free will but my goodness man. How can people say it's not a fighting game? If it's not a fighting game then, what is it?
Simulation its a dragon ball simulator
@@addex1236 Bruh you can literally control a character and have them fight other characters. That is called a fighting game. Are you a troll?
what keeps it from being a true fighter is just the audience. It's the meme of anime fighters. One comes out every 6 months and the previous one dies while everyone moves on. If ppl stuck with one it could be. Since Smash is by definition a party game originally. It was just a bunch of fan boys held onto that mfer and forced it to be a fighter. A no shower having sweat fest.
In smash they have to turn half the game off to be something that is kinda like a true fighter.
Brother it’s illegal to speak so much facts… Imagine having to tailor the game to fit a certain criteria….. because originally the game wasn’t built for competitive play in mind it was built for having fun 🤣. Not saying your arguement is the end all be all, but this is quite a fair point.
This game should have amazing EVO 2025 numbers with the current player count.
Sparking Zero isn't going to Evo
7:24 song name?
3rd Strike - Staff Roll
My debate on this weird matter is; are you choosing from a roster of characters that fight? Are these characters fighting with their fists in a 1v1 format (teams cannot all fight at once so it's 1v1 at a time)? Are these characters using special abilities like energy blasts like the hadouken? Are matches hype? Then it's a fighting game. Stop trying to be elitist about it. Nobody is saying street fighter or tekken suck, we just love our DRAGON BALL FIGHTING GAME. So chill out, it's a fighting game
Wait until you find out that an older friend of mine considers Valorant a fighting game because it involves.... "two groups fighting eachother with guns" and keeps falling back to "I make video games, so im an authority on this!" (he's an asset flipper, but somehow that makes him a programmer/developer i guess)
or.. "my generation is the one who made video games a thing in the first place and it's generation X that does the most heavy lifting in video game making!"
None of these comments I see come even close to what nonsense I heard that old geezer yap about LMAO
Arena fighters are just all not very competitive, in sparking you spam just a couple buttons to do all combos and attacks. That just isn't like most skill based games, so i wouldn't call it a fighting game.
It's a fighting game like that shrek fighting game is. It is, but it's really even the same genre.
Why do people care if Sparking Zero is a fighting game or not? Were they now invited to the FGC cookout?
Gamers: probably don't include the Fighter part in that statement
The number alone should be obvious, it's not a fighting game.
Well, yeah, the difference is Sparking zero is good and fun.
Fighters community needs to learn one word. COPIUM. Your welcome.
The problem I have with sparking zero is 80% of the roster is useless in competitive play
99% of the roster is actually viable. Thanks to mechanics like Super Counters and Vanishing that can be used at nearly any time so long as you can time the inputs. The only characters that really get bent are Hercule (intentionally bad joke character like Dan) and Giants (slow movement, slow attacks, super armor gets negated by stronger fighters robbing them of their one advantage, Super Armor doesn't save them from Blasts, basically the Grapplers of this game). And mind you, this ain't T3, where there were a bunch of unnecessary Great Apes that were all bad, and -1 setups (unvanishables) existed on top of certain moves being better there than in S0 (pretty sure Explosive Madan and Super Explosive Madan got nerfed as did Barrage Death Beam). Also the DP system still exists, with tighter restrictions to prevent you from, say, running 2 10DP characters like Whis and SSJ4 Gogeta. You can't even run Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta together without starting one of them in a weaker form. Whereas you CAN run the whole Ginyu Force, which I'd argument is much better between Ginyu Body Change cheese, Jeice actually being a decent character due to Explosive Wave (basically a Burst), and Burter actually being a Top Tier at least back in T3.
@@espurrseyes42 I'm talking 1v1 ranked but even in dp battles people are using the same strategies. Out of 181 characters 25 or so are seen online ranked.
@@murksmitty
Because those are the best strategies. The same way the best strat in all fighting games is to pick the best characters and git gud with that. That doesn't change what I said. Provided you're good enough, it's perfectly reasonable to win with non-Top Tiers in S0, and the DP System exists to aid with that by limiting the use of strong characters like SSJ4 Gogeta.
@@espurrseyes42 your saying git gud but I'm taking about in a ranked environment. In that situation you playing against someone on an equal level to you. You will not win picking anything less than 5 DP vs a guy with equal skill picking a 10 DP character. And I'm being generous most people will be pick 7 dp and up in all ranked solo environments.
@@murksmitty
Ranked is based on wins. Your rank doesn't directly correlate to actual skill. You also seem to think DP correlates to a character being good. It doesn't. At least in BT3, Burter was a high tier for a couple of reasons, Jeice was above average, and SSJ2 Adult Gohan was a problem, and the best character in the game was Perfect Form Cell do to having pretty much all the tools that make a character strong. Even Yajirobe was alright because of Senzu, and due to how fast Stocks charge in S0, Yajirobe is actually something of a problem despite being like a 2 cost.
So yeah. Git gud. Or find some good low cost characters. Or both. Both ideally.
If i can beat a real person into submission to the point to where they ragequit and DC over losing in a game thats 1 character Vs. 1 character w/ lifebars - its a fighting game
Its true and technically niether is Smash; though it has more elements of a fighting game and has options that make it feel closer to a fighting game. However, at the end of they day; they competative fun.
Anything closer to the actually thing of fighting is a fighting game and sparking zero is the closest thing to the real thing in any fighting genre
Sure they are the same way Smash is a fighting game but I ain't gonna watch EVO grand finals on VERTICAL split screen.