Music Chat: The History of the CD Megabox Reissue--A Brief Narrative
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- In this stroll down memory lane, I trace the history of our current era: The Age of the Megabox. How did the classical music industry find itself in a position to issue tons of material in huge boxed sets containing, sometimes, hundreds of individual discs? Let's explore.
I love big boxes! Especially when original covers as used. In a modern world of streaming, these become a needless extravagance, but the pull of nostalgia (you have to be a certain age to appreciate this) is nigh irresistible. We record collectors are real suckers, and don't the record labels know it!
Yes, never underestimate the nostalgia factor. As I recall, DG's introduction of its "Originals" CDs were NOT available in the U.S., until they realized that they could sell them for far more than their budget Privilege or Musikfest CDs.
I remember the 78s! For us, at the time: A MARVEL!! Wonderful! My dad went berserk, buying everything from Les Sylphides to Coppelia to Liberace. I hid the Liberace and eventually threw his 78 away. Then, in the 1950s, came the LPS. Paradise.
I wish RCA gave ME one if those Rubinstein sets! I purchased a number of those individually, at Tower Records, (and a few more later at used cd stores or thrift shops), but I myself don’t recall ever seeing that entire box at the Towers I went to in Manhattan and Long Island. Could you imagine all that work and effort and then it just goes out of print in relative no-time (like Philips’ Greatest Pianists collection)(or BBC’s Complete Shakespeare videos/DVDs come to think of it). Just nuts
They didn't give it to me. I bought it.
In terms of documentation, the Decca Bartok complete works box got it right, so it can be done. Another way around the documentation issue would be to provide a Web link or a CD rom.
Did you ever write the booklets Dave?
Yes, for years.
I just read the description of the new yet to be released Ormandy Philadelphia Stereo megabox to be released on November 17, 2023, however it only contains the years 1958 to 1963 and has 88 CDs and what looks like a much smaller CD size book which is much smaller than the mono box had. So, I probably will not be buying it after all.
Why not? My understanding is that it's the first half. That makes sense to me.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Oh, Ok. I'd prefer a large format book like the mono version came with. Based on the pictures of the new (first) stereo set, they reduced the size of the book to about the size of a CD case. A big book filled with big historical pictures was a major selling point for me. The fact that the new set is all in stereo, is a big advantage. I'll think about it. I'll need to find more space first.
My feeling is that megaboxes are more and more designed for collectors who already know what they're getting, in other words, the record companies are preaching to the converted, rather than trying to attract general music lovers by way of enticing packaging. That's one reason why I try in my reviews to give detailed information about the contents of the booklets, particularly the inclusion or lack of indexes, the ease or difficulty in locating specific items, and so on.
My term: Gesamtkunstbox. It hasn't caught on for some reason...
Too many kunsts about
Plural is Gesamtkunstböxer, yes?
THE outstanding mega boxset of recent years, in terms of programming and supporting documentation, is the DG Bach 333 set. With its extensive notes, essays, cross-referencing etc. it is like a scholarly edition. The programming, representing the evolution of performance practice over 60 years, with alternative versions of the major works, is imaginative and fascinating (put together by Nicholas Kenyon - journalist, scholar, broadcaster, former head of the BBC Proms). Highly recommended. Right now Sony leads the way with the superb remastering and presentation of its mega boxes. RCA remastering has been excellent too - the Peter Serkin box is exemplary - very important because in the last few decades of the LP the RCA records were amongst the worst pressed and mastered. I am still hoping for RCA to do a Leonard Slatkin box....
I remember Tower Records on Sunset Blvd had the Toscanini Cabinet - I guess around the same time as the Rubinstein box. Much later both collections were re-released in the now familiar cardboard box format.
Some years ago I managed to buy a whole set of „The 100 Greatest Recodings of all Time“ by the Franklin Mint Record Society. 100 LPs in 50 boxes, wine-red vinyl, wonderful booklets on thick chamois paper. And - oh what recordings!! Lots of Szell, Ormandy, Bernstein, Beecham, Reiner, Toscanini, Monteux… and it is not limited to one label. A labour of love by them and a treasure trove for me. Simply a feast to listen to these beautiful and pristine vinyls AND having them booklets at hand. I know many believe FM is dreck, mais au contraire, mes amis, at least in this case! There has never been a better collection of mainstream classical music than this one. - As always, thank you, Dave! Harry
Hi David, thank you for the interesting topic you have picked to talk about.
I think that the first megabox that appeared in the CD era was the Philips first complete Motzard edition, in the early 90s. Of course you perhaps know better...however this edition was extremely well curated and included excellent multi language booklet notes in the volumes. Finally, it included complete opera librettos translated in three languages.All of this in one edition is simply inconceivable nowadays.
Thank you once again for this original topic. Best wishes, from Athens, Greece. KONSTANTINOS MAKRIS
It wasn't a megabox. Like the Beethoven, it was a collection of smaller boxes.
Stravinsky CBS editions are interesting examples. The 1982 LP set- which has a bespoke perspex endpiece, befitting the subject in is forward looking marriage of materials and forms. And the 1991 complete edition, now under Sony, again with a purpose made perspective/plastic CD element, a shelf display box. I remember blowing much needed money as a student on that in London, in the basement devoted (with leather chairs and reference books) to classical music in HMV. How times have changed.
That HMV basement was incredible!
Oh yes indeed. Many happy hours spent there growing up @@jameslee2943
David I discovered your channel and I really like it, the problem is that I don't speak or understand English, of course there are subtitles in any language on UA-cam, for the ease of your followers you should post the still images of the CDs that you are recommending so they can be searched on any platform, thanks and congratulations from Cali Colombia.
Thank you.
I was hoping to see if you had the big, black cabinet housing the complete Mozart edition, which was released over 45 volumes over a couple of years from around 1991 to 1993. I've still got it - it's enormous, and weighs a ton, but I can't let it go.
I want to go on a diatribe about these megaboxes and the disgraceful packaging and notes, but I won't. I will say, the best one of this type (that I have at any rate), is Sony's Murray Peraihia 40th anniversary box. It has a nice, hard cover book that has ALL of the original liner notes! It CAN be done, and it should.
That original Rubinstein was also priced like it was never done before. I have about 85% of those discs purchased individually because that box set was just way too much money back in the day. I should also add that I liked what Sony did with the Glen Gould USB approach that saved me an extraordinary amount of time ripping what would have been a lot of CDs. I'd prefer this approach over more physical discs.
My first big boxes are the French Sony Casadesus and Serkin box, and the Decca Japan Backhaus set on a wooden box.
Fun overview! I've managed to find about 75% of the CDs from that first giant Complete Rubinstein box, but still would love to find the whole thing. It's a beautiful set!
I'm thinking of buying operas on vinly from now on becauseI I like the way it was done then but i'm sure to have a libretto.
I think that the combination of Wikipedia’s discussion of a classical work and a streaming service such as Apple Classical comes close to the old CD box of that one work. Of course, for opera and choral music that statement is false.
I’m very lucky to own the core repertoire in that ideal CD format. I have added a few CD sets under the influence of Dave’s videos. The only large box that I own is Fischer’s Haydn Symphony set, because I was familiar with those works ahead of time.
Wikipedia only has comprehensive articles on very mainstream works. Step off the beaten path and you'll quickly find yourself in the dark.
My "megabox" purchases were the DG Karajan boxes. I have purchased several other "Medium boxes" like the Living Stereo box, Orpheus Chamber Orchestra box, Herbert Blomstedt box, and Emerson String Quartet box - and Naxos' very good Haydn boxes.
I love the box sets from a price:content perspective, and for exposing me to so much repertoire. But I do see the concern of commodifying the music and stripping away the notes (which different boxes to do different degrees). When it comes down to it, though, I see them as a positive force generally, because once it's all streaming, no one will own anything and all metadata and explanatory material will be out the window.
Hope you'll review the Fricsay box - I've played through it and there are (virtually) no duds!
Yes I also would like to see a review of this box
I’ve never seen that earlier Rubinstein hernia maker, but I DO remember seeing the original Toscanini BMG collection from the early 90s, in that huge case with glass doors on the front! I can’t find mention of it online, or any images. It went for a fortune too, as I recall. Do you have that one, Dave?
He does. He showed it in a video a while back. Search his videos for Toscanini. I think it is the one where he reviewed the 2012 box set.
I'm happy to have paid $22 for the Sony box of nearly everything Stravinsky conducted of his own music for Sony, with its little booklet, and then be able to find plenty of program notes online.
Listening to that, I realize that I was extremely lucky from getting into classical music right at the beginning of the LP age after a an introduction to the basics from my parents' wartime box of 78s. LPs were relatively expensive, c.GBP 2 then = USD 5.6 in 1953 money, so I bought them quite slowly and really got to know the music. The notes on the back of the sleeves, with texts and translations where vocal, were of enormous help giving a lot of information about the composer and the works on the record which were very educative. At the beginning of the CD era, the recording companies tried to continue this policy but, in Europe, rationalisation of production led to multilingual booklets in small print which severely constrained the writers of the notes to much greater brevity in the information provided. Fast forward to the 2020s and the proliferation of these mega-boxes and streaming, I wonder how neophytes, as I was in the 1950s, get to immerse themselves in the music and acquire enough knowledge to get the best out of it. This is lazy marketing which seems to me destined to lead inevitably to a shrinkage of the demand for classical music.
When it comes to Hamburger helper, I prefer the Haas 1878 edition, but usually the best I can find is Nowak 1873 or 1889.
David, why and when did you give up collecting and listening LPs, if you did?
When CDs appeared.
What is that to the left of the Bach 333?
That was really interesting! I am so grateful that my (long delayed) just completed year of classical music acquisition had the benefit of 'complete' box sets of anywhere from 5 to let's say 10 discs per box.
I enjoy you SO much! You make me laugh, feel indignant at record companies, and laugh again. Thank you!
I second these emotions! 😺
Question for Dave: Do you know of a good place to find information on future megabox releases? Sometimes the release schedule can make the difference between getting an older reissue and waiting for the ever-more complete, authoritative version. Thanks!
I depends on how "future" you want to go. I check out the Presto Classical website, which is pretty reliable.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you. I gotta say that it appears the "megabox" era is coming to a close looking at the pricing of the new sets. The new Dorati Detroit box is $100 on Presto for just 20 CDs, making for five bucks a disc. The upcoming Ansermet mono box is 26 CDs for $205.50, close to eight bucks a disc! That's insane compared to the $2-3 per disc price just a few years ago. What's going on with the industry?
Sony's various "Original Jacket Collection" boxes, issued in the early 2000s, marked the beginning of today's Megabox concept. The OJC boxes were innovative in ditching the traditional base-consuming jewel box holder, using a tiny reproduction of each album's original album cover and rear cover notes (in microscopic print), and even reproducing the visual center label of the original LP release. OJC boxes were sold at very modest prices, mirroring the contents of an artist's original LP release. Artists like Glenn Gould, George Szell, Leonard Bernstein, Vladimir Horowitz and (after Sony's takeover of BMG Music Entertainment) Artur Rubinstein and Jascha Heifetz were among those who were featured in OJC boxes. Most had 10 discs but some OJC boxes featured many more.
The first mega boxes I noticed were when they became $1-2 a disc. In 2009 it was Yehudi Menuhin: the great EMI recordings. 50 discs you can still find new for $77.85.
My “favourite” liner notes were on the back of a 1959 Deutsche Grammophon LP of excerpts from Der Freischütz. The author hadn’t got the memo about the end of the war and portrayed Weber as the hero who rescued German music from “Überfremdung” (superalienation / evil foreign domination) by their “Welscher Tand” (Romance kitsch, just as in Sachs’s speech at the end of Meistersinger).
Some liner notes tell you more about the author and zeitgeist than about the actual work.
Yep, I do miss browsing those LP liner notes from the '50s, especially their brief biographies of German artists who did absolutely nothing between 1933 and 1945!
I wonder if you recall the Monty Python comedy album "Another Monty Python record", whose cover design looked like a classical music release with the details scribbled out and "Monty Python" written on top. The "original" release was a performance of Beethoven's 2nd conducted by "Dietriech Walther", who, as far as I can tell, never existed, but the cover art is (at first glance) very convincing.
Thanks for the history lesson, very informative. I have a love/hate relationship with megaboxes. I love the completeness and the old pictures in the books but the liner notes of each CD is missing. Instead you get one or two general essays that usually are not that informative. I hate the fact that I have to find places to store the big boxes, like the big Ormandy Philadelphia mono box. I thought I could get rid of the individual CD that I already had, but then I'd be missing the liner notes. I still have that lovely old Rubinstein set, which does include liner notes for each CD, not like today's megaboxes. I will probably buy one more box, the Ormandy Stereo box coming out soon, then I'm done with megaboxes. I will then only concentrate on luscious surround sound SACDs by BIS, MDG, Pentatone, Chandos, CPO, Challange, etc., because I just love the feeling of being in the concert hall that SACD surround sound gives. Also, where I live, I can't go to a live concert very often, besides, they are really expensive. I even just setup MDG's 2+2+2 3-dimensional speaker arrangement and wow is it fantastic.
The original notes for the single discs do appear in the Ormandy box original jacket format. Very small print, of course, but actually readable. You can even scan them into your PC and blow up the print to avoid eyestrain.
@@bbailey7818 Yes, I mentioned that in a later post. However, most other megabox sets do not include the original liner notes. They are either blank or only have the tracks listed.
The big DG Beethoven LP set, in multiple categories, was released in 1970 and was called the "Beethoven Bicentennial Edition." The one in the video, released on CD for the 100th anniversary of DG was released either late 1997 or early 1998 (I was a freshman in college and I remember not even being able to dream about being able to afford it then). Another commenter mentioned the Toscanini RCA set, which is the first of the "big boxes" I recall being aware of, particularly in terms of being a complete collection of an artist's entire output on one label. However, from that same time period (early 90's) j there was also the Complete Mozart Edition and Richard Wagner Editions on Philips. The big "Bach 2000" boxed set from Teldec I also remember to be quite a sensation when it came out for the Bach 250th anniversary. Now that I come to think of it, it seems like Philips and Decca were the pioneers of the ever-growing "complete" boxed set (small, yes, but still "complete," or moving towards "complete"), especially in the clam-shell box/ cardboard sleeve format we are used to today. The earliest examples I can think of on Philips are the three boxed set reissues (released 1997/1998) of the Berlioz/Colin Davis cycle. From that same period there was also the L'Oiseau-Lyre release of the Dufay complete secular music (1997) and the complete Bruckner/Solti symphony cycle, both from Decca's Collector's Edition 2000 series and both mainstays of my collection. The Bruckner set sticks out in my mind because I had already purchased the Mahler/Solti and Dvorak/Kertesz complete symphony sets from the same series and they were in the older, jewel case/ outer slipcase format. The earliest of this series to contain the clam-shell seems to be the Mozart Sonatas/Schiff set (which I also own) from 1995. Amazing to see where we've come today, and still, despite the steep prices, that we are paying relatively much less cost per CD than we were 30 years ago.
I dont have the Rubenstein box but have many of the individual CDs and they're classy. I also got a copy of the book which is superb.
(DG was founded in 1898.)
I do like the spacesaving aspects of some of these boxes. I recently got the Teldec Barenboim Wagner box. Some of the recordings I did not have but I owned five of them in their original issues which I'm donating. Sure, they had the libretti but Ive got those all over the place plus scores, while the notes and cast bios are so much boilerplate. Excess to reqirements.
DG seems very wary of putting dates on its products, including remastering details. Possibly because they want their back-product to sell, and not be rejected for being superseded in terms of quality.
I've had the big box sets of the varying styles you mention and I definitely have my preferences. But, all I can say is thank heavens for that one person who always writes the contents in an Amazon review. Otherwise, I never really know what I'm buying.
I have this Rubinstein set. Amazing stuff. Was my first big box purchase!!
If you keep lifting that Rubinstein box around, you'll be singing Weird Al Yankovic's parody LIVING WITH A HERNIA. Another good one, Dave.....
Fun! Fun! Fun!
I'm loving this -- it looks like my basement, same Mega-Truck sets! Wish they'd given MINE away... must've been the first in line.
Mega boxes can be great for a newbie on a budget - one only has to open wikipedia for some notes on the music as big as your screen. I have none of these monsters but some nice medium boxes like the Schubert 'masterworks' 10 CD set on brilliant with some interesting performances by the hanover band.
Looking forward to the Fricsay box review!
Within the limits you describe the Bruno Walter box is exemplary. The book contains a ton of information, and the musical contents are complete.
I like the box, the book, and particularly the music !!!
Surely the first CD megabox was the Phillips Mozart Edition circa 1992?
No, it was a big box assembled from littler boxes.
"Hamburger Helper?" - I have checked a database of 214 librettos and have not found a single reference!
Probably from one of the missing Handel operas.
I don't think we've had the complete Herbert von Karajan yet!
Yes, we have, on both DG and EMI.
Another tip of the digital age--virtually anything you'd want is currently available on YT, such as the contents of the first box set shown, for the low, low price of an internet connection. Dave, you're right--the apotheosis of the digital age is access to the vaults, whenever you'd like, with no physical media whatsoever, which is great if you can put up with some digital compression and a few commercials (or pay for commercial-free viewing.) The Hamburger Helper, of course, still remains in the analog domain.
BUT, the digital access is only good if you already know what you are looking for, or at least what your preferences are. For a novice getting into Classical music, the digital world provides basically no orientation, leave alone musical cross-references or historical details. Channels like this one, offering well-systematized knowledge, remain the one available beacon - if one is pointed to them one way or another.
@bigg2988 Honestly when I started collecting and educating myself about classical music 40y ago, the LP/CD world offered little in the way of orientation. It was radio presenters and books that provided the detailed guidance. I don't think things are worse now, as there are so many more online guides
A fascinating narrative, which comports well with my longstanding experience as a collector. When I started collecting LP's seriously in high school, those scholarly liner notes which came with single issues and multi-disc sets gave me a surprisingly thorough education in music history, form and analysis. Sometimes the sets would come with musical examples in score, or even complete miniature scores. By the time I showed up as a music major in college, I had already gotten something like an "AP" intro to music history and theory. The space-saving value of CD megaboxes is somewhat deceptive. Yes, one can eliminate whole shelves of environmentally mischievous plastic jewel cases. On the other hand, those boxes can mount up in ways that take up different kinds of space; and then there's the issue of incompatible shapes. Finally, I'd like to observe that the more environmentally-friendly housing of CD's in paper or cardboard sleeves, which is now universal for big boxes, cuts down on the need for manufacturing and, ultimately, disposing of so much plastic. That having been said, it's so much easier to find a particular work or performance in a single CD jewel box than in a 100-CD megabox!
davidaiken - That was my experience too, - back in my teens in the late sixties, jazz being my first love, a significant jazz LP always had serious liner notes information covering the entire back of the sleeve, which was almost always written by a specialist on the artist, amounting as you say to a thorough musical education of the idiom. You'll no doubt have (as I did) read and re-read those liner notes while listening many times and as the collection gets into the hundreds, then the thousands, the history of the music as a whole becomes embedded, - the tactile nature was a big factor too in my experience, - it had a more "ritualistic" dimension too, carving out the listening time, having to find the album where ever it happened to filed and kept, carefully handle it etc, - it fostered a different kind of respect to the mega CD sets I think, - not mention the difficulty of actually obtaining much of that music being released back then, cheers, Gus :)
@@gusriley9785 Eloquently said Gus. I don't mean to trash the CD medium, which is rapidly becoming obsolete, anyway. But CD's with the usual generous playing time encourage indiscriminate listening. How many times have I put on a CD that contains, say, three Symphonies by Mozart, intending to hear only one but lazily listening on to the others which, for whatever reason, I wasn't "in the mood" to hear. Then one's attention begins to wander long before the final track. That situation is magnified many times over when it comes to "Megaboxes." One feels somehow "obliged" (especially if the expense was high) to breeze through the whole 88-disc compilation, sometime losing interest long before the 88th CD is reached. Conversely one purchases a megabox and listening to only one or two CD's before it's shelved only thereafter to collect dust. Not to drag this comment out interminably, but one more illustration. Back in the day when Glenn Gould was commiting Bach's WTC to disc gradually and methodically, we Gould fans would purchase the latest installment which might contain, say, ten preludes and fugues, savoring each one as we listened multiple times for new depths and nuances; whereas these days, I'd be likely to play through all 24 of Book One, or all six Partitas at one go. Do these new habits encourage careless listening, I wonder?
@@davidaiken1061 Hi David,
appreciate and enjoyed reading your reply.
Your comments, observations and questions all resonate with my own experience and view.
The issue of CD's becoming obsolete, given streaming, (which incidentally I just don't like or take to at all, - granted a CD has a different feel and vibe to the older vinyl, (physically and metaphorically) and the often obscenely over priced "Vinyl Community" ethos etc, - most music I buy today is on CD, due to the availability, it's almost giveaway price - from the consumers position - Dave H's views on the profit aspect of the recording industry still turning out CD's without really incurring any costs doesn't concern me directly, - the corporate beat goes on? But paradoxically on the mega macro scale while CD's are indeed becoming a thing of the past to many, - the growing niche market distribution of areas like classical, jazz, - essentially music that has been around for a long time as opposed to current mainstream popular music with attendant royalty issues etc is a blessing to people like myself.
On the other hand, as you astutely remarked it can and if we are honest does on occasion lead to careless and indiscriminate listening, which I guess is down to us as listeners to be more focused and disciplined?
What brought to my conscious awareness was you reminding me of the back in the day when in your case, you and your peer group were counting the days for that next G Gould recording, or in my case maybe Stan Getz, Sonny Rollins etc, Oscar's Peterson's methodical, systematic and slowly paced recording of the Great American Songbook series stands out, or Ella Fitzgerald's versions, - it was an "event" when that next album was released, bought, brought home, - and played to the point of really internalising it, with total focus, intense pleasure and gratitude.
To sum up, I see it as one of those issues like our health, there are circumstances sometimes beyond our control, - market forces and the prevailing culture in the case of music, - but as with our health, a personal responsibility to optimise it by taking personal responsibility where we can, which is considerable.
On the whole then, I'm more than grateful for the "Mega box" phenomenon, I could never have afforded, or been able to locate many jazz collections of more obscure artists without it.
All good! :)
I'm not the classical scholar you are, but I was really enjoying the work of Giovanni Bottesini's double bass compositions the last few days, which without Brilliant Classics I'd have never known about.
Good convo, - cheers, David, - regards Gus from England.
@@gusriley9785 Thanks, Gus for your lengthy reply. Just a brief remark from me. I do think CD is a better medium than LP when it comes to sound quality, relative permanence, and convenience. I have been collecting CD's since they appeared on the market, and haven't bought a vinyl disc for at least two decades. There are aspects of the CD medium and the way they are marketed that I don't like (viz. my previous remarks). Otherwise, it's an ideal medium for classical and jazz, and for reissuing, in improved sound, the great recordings of the past.
@@davidaiken1061 I will take issue with the suggestion that CDs encourage careless listening, indiscriminate listening, or laziness. Music is for pleasure, and we should listen to it in any way that takes our fancy.
The next iteration is LP Big Boxes such as Bernstein's DG Mahler cycle on vinyl, which you can buy for nearly 10x the price of the CD box, or DG's Original Source Vinyl series, which is available at 4x the price of the same works on CD.
The vinyl revival craze, which peaked during COVID, is on a decline. I don’t think you’re going to have the surge of LP boxes like what we saw for CD boxes this past decade. Prices will be too high & labels won’t want to deal w/a high number of returns for warped/dished LPs.
Excellent video. In my view the rot set in with CDs in these horrible plastic boxes with a tiny booklet you could not read. The product became something the record companies were ashamed of and then they stopped caring. I am back with vinyl for classical music and last night played the lp of Horowitz plays Scarlatti - lovely cover, interesting notes and excellent sound.
That seems to me like overkill, but whatever makes you happy...