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As someone who's played Paladin since 2005, I can confirm, Ret will always be a meme spec. It gets it's 15 minutes every other expansion and then burrows down into nearly-unplayable territory again only to resurface years later.
Honestly they fixed pve issues for rets. Single target dmg that dishes out aoe procs as we do st. Pvp on the other hand, that's a whole other horse to tackle. I have a build that works around conc and slaps hardcore. But issue with that is, I'm locked onto my spec. I can't change anything and I have to stick with my package. Since a lot of other spells are locked into conc package. As of now, ret, or rather my spec, is glas canon. Pop wings and delete everything I see, wings die down and I'm dead. It's a fun 2 minute spec so far
@@Vic-qp1gk I don't believe PvE for rets will really ever be fixed without an entire overhaul to how they do damage. At least for high-end M+ and Raid content, Rets are almost never a first (or even second choice). I haven't played the pre-patch very much, but from what I saw with stacking covenenant + tier abilities with the new talents, many specs are just destroying in hilariously broken ways.
@J. Arnold also don't forget, it's prepatch. Just like legion into bfa and bfa into sl. Certain classes were slapping hard-core. Demo lock is an immortal god right now, but they flopped pretty easily at 70 ptr
I still think we should get the ability Tyreal has in HoTS. You throw a sword imbued with light dealing holy damage and slowing any targets in a small radius around it. Reactivating the ability instantly teleports you to the blades location.
Funny you mentioned it, cause that exact ability was tested during Legion alpha and scrapped due to being clunky and not appropriate to the class fantasy. Divine Steed, IMO one of the worst abilities in the whole game both aesthetically, thematically and mechanically, took its place. Bonus fun fact: many years ago, around Cata, an ability was tested on paladins, it was sort of a holy jump with an holy aoe on the landing spot, but it got scrapped and became Warrior's Heroic Leap
No I'd prefer not to have a 3 step activation ability for movement. Give Ret and Prot Falling Sword from D3 Crusaders, Its basically the same thing but more direct. Or just give Final Reckoning a teleport/leap component. It can then auto cast Consecration with the 50% snare at the target location.
I love how every video I see for ret says is subpar in utility, mobility, and defensives and now our damage is getting gutted, so we are not amazing at anything..... yet we've been getting nerfs every week for the past month and a half.
The damage isn’t bad to be fair. The thing is I have no idea how other classes are doing so we may very well be overtuned (or in the past we were). It’s more of an optics problem - like wow you take away x y z AND nerf damage? But damage was pretty nutty for a while.
The fact that the paladin dev last response was months ago shows that they don't care meanwhile other classes devs talked with the community and look much better.
To be fair, the Mage and Warlock devs aren't much better. But from my understanding those classes had some better trees to begin with or had some significant changes. Ours really hasn't changed much since Alpha, which is crazy.
For a while now devs have kept WW, hunter and lock, occasionally rogue in top dps specs for pve and it looks like that's how it'll stay. Looking at evoker at Beta, it's dead last barely outperforming tanks in damage tells you a lot. They focus on classes the devs play and like, rest just get shafted and small changes here and there to keep them revitalized. Just see Shadow, beta shadow was slapping hardcore in pvp and pve. Prepatch changes made sure shadow is not worth to play as dps
The Ret dev actively IGNORED feedback, telling players that wasn't the direction they wanted to go. Oh, so you mean ignoring what players actually want and instead doubling down on the things they tell you they DON'T like, and have been telling you this for over half a decade? It reeks of the old "you think you do, but you don't" that we are used to from Blizzard. The worst part is what these players want is to go back to the way things used to be, bringing back what was previously in the game and moving back to the original class/spec fantasy. There is no excuse for this.
It’s baffling to me that consecration got so much attention but seals are just passive bull crap. And auras don’t even have to be taken for the most part. Why not give us resistance auras back or something? I wish they were more active.
Man giving it a C is being nice. I'm giving it a straight fat F. It's just a watered down version of SL with less mobility and damage. They nurfed wings damage in sl and buffed normal damage but then nurfed us into the ground. Every pvp player looks at ret like we are Lolret again
Totally agree in pvp it’s gonna be rough. We’re so easy to kite, like 2v2 is gonna be pointless. Maybe in soloqueu but with our limited defenses we’re gonna be getting hammered all game.
Played alot of ret these past 1.5 days in m+ and tbh.. it sucks. Might get better once reaching lvl 70 but I don't think it'll happen.. nah, lets stick to another class until Blizz decides ret gets a buff. Nice Vid, helped a lot by finding the right class for DF.. and for the first time ever it's not going to be Pally.
I wish Paladin got more attention, but we aren't alone. Perhaps Blizz just thinks we're great as-is? I dunno, I'd trade bubble for blessing of spellwarding in a heartbeat, but IMO Blizzard is design constrained by three spells: Consecration, Bubble, and Lay on Hands. These are just too strong and they seem to be glued to the kit.
Really you should just play WW, rogue, lock and hunter. Any other dps will always be inferior. But ret is fine aoe and st wise. Bit boring, but not the worst. If conc would follow you like immolation for DH does, would help a lot in pvp. Currently if you go conc spec for pvp it just drops it on the ground and players will just walk out and your spec is 80% useless. Hence I went around that mechanic and picked massive st judgment modifier boosts to where my wings period deletes anything I see, but then I get deleted shortly after lol
I was playing ret in M+ season one. And gave up like a month in or so. The main reason was I had to do 3x times more to achieve 2x less. I felt like my utility kit wasn't bad, but If I used it in any scenario it meant I'm loosing on already weak DPS. Pugging was nearly impossible cause no one would take ret to anything 17+ at the time. And I don't blame them. Why would you take retri when most retris did no dmg at all compared to some huntard or boomie that can play with 1 hand and still deal 2x your damage. The was some good dungeons for retriks, but overall I was super disappointed to see that in all these years blizzard still sucked at figuring out their fundamental error since vanilla which is class balance. I'm not saying every class has to be S tier, but when every expansion starts with 2-3 s tier 3-5 a tier and the rest is garbage you have to question how in all these years they couldn't even balance this shit out even remotely close. If they didn't want to change how dps works for retri they could have reworked how utility works. They don't want us to top dps? then make us useful in other way. I will never understand whats the point of having all these specs in a game if blizzard will simply tell you play the meta with 8 specs. I'm a type of player that won't play alts. My character is my baby. If I decide to play retri I will play retri. And if retri will suck then see you in 2 years cause there's no 2nd chances after so many years of disappointment. The whole point of MMORPG was to be free in a wild and play whatever you want to enjoy the game, but it is nearly impossible to enjoy the game when blizzard keeps cock blocking you. Ehh, they never learn from their mistakes.
@@vecislt I personally ally swapped to DH. Might not be the best dps out there, but I enjoy the class and that's new to me since forever. But I mostly pvp so even if dh sucks in pve. It's still fun in pvp. + all that mobility
@@Vic-qp1gk Sadly I don't do WoW PVP at all. I'm more into large scale PVP in MMORPG and what WoW has to offer in there department isn't really my cup of tea. I always enjoyed PVE side of WoW from time to time. I mean if dota2 can balance all their heroes then surely Blizzard should be able to at least try to do it. Sometimes it feels like they do no testing just put random numbers in :)
In spite of all the doomers saying Ret is a sub par spec I am absolutely enjoying playing it. At the end of the day 99% of people will not do m+ keys above 20, 99% will never set foot in a mythic raid and 99++ % still don’t have the ability play pvp at a high level. The class is not the crippling thing for most people, it’s their skill. I would rather be good at something I really enjoy rather than being another person in the sea of FOTM re rollers
I enjoy it too, but I worry it's too dependent on the lingering borrowed power systems from shadowlands. Necro ret feels great right now because I can get divine toll AND vanquishers hammer!
@@Varaben Thanks for replying! Taking the opportunity... I would like to ask you, the last talent spell from our conduits (Maldraxus) doesn´t work anymore? because that bonus of damage is about our Vanquisher Hammer spell. sorry my english, and thanks for you attention :)
@@Varaben I'd rather it be a talent that allows for Templar's Verdict/Final Verdict to do some healing. I want to keep the range of Final Verdict, but not at the cost of damage from Justicar's Vengeance. Preferably I rather it actually be a talent that did AoE healing when using holy power spenders. Like how WotLK Ret's Divine Storm does. So Ret can be a bit of battle healer like you could be back in MoP with the Glyph of the Battle Healer which caused Seal of Light to heal the nearest injured ally. I miss it, I could Ret heal dungeons using it back then. Heck on group actually did a raid group using no healers and mostly rets using this Glyph. Or change it to be Aegisjalmur, the Armguards of Awe Legendary effect, a cheat death that give you a Shield of Vengeance. Would then make it more suitable talent choice when compare with Eye for an Eye on the choice node. One you could take over Eye for an Eye when dealing with Casters.
i have played a Ret paladin since day 4 of the game... i have seen and weathered WORSE changes then this. - Remember in vanilla when ALL of our main dps spells would be purged or spell stolen? and all we had was AUTO ATTACKS i do... - Remember when every time we used wings mages would steal our wings... i do. - Remember when we are ZERO horse for mobility i do... remember when - Remember when forbearance was over 5 mins i do - Remember when wings and bubble could NOT be used together i do - Remember when we would attack SLOWER when we used bubble i do - Remember the discrimination to paladins in vanilla from EVERY OTHER CLASS... i DO I am not going to change fraking classes because of several doom and gloom videos on the internet saying our class is garbage... ADAPT OVERCOME ENDURE, learn to play the class instead of whining BUT if you DO decide to leave and change classes that means less competition for me
Wings being spell-stolen yuck. I agree that the Shadowlands Ret is not the worst and we're largely getting that again. If that were true for the other classes it would be fine. But have you seen mage mobility? Or every shaman getting lightning lasso? Or any warrior?
@@Varaben my point still stands adapt overcome and endure i have a feeling thats why they are trying so pathetically hard to push consecration on us as our main form of dps, as a bandaid fix because blizzard devs is SO incompetent. you have to remember shadowlands is the SECOND consecutive most hated xpac after BFA and if this happens AGAIN in dragon-flight the game for real this time may not recover. The microsoft buyout of blizzard can't come soon enough
@@mrgoob76 I get what you’re saying but there’s also the sunk cost fallacy. If blizzard doesn’t care about paladins then there’s some wasted energy trying to make something work when there’s 5 other melee that already do it better (arms enh roguex2 WW). They have more mobility, more control, unique buffs, better trees, etc. Ret just needed some love and it didn’t get it.
Nerf the damage, whatever. Gut the utility, fine. Give us crappy horse, sure, I guess. Nerfing Art of War procs was the single most idiotic thing they could ever do. That's literally the core mechanic of the class and now we get less of it. Imagine if they reduced energy regen for rogues by 50%, or reduced maelstrom by 50%, people would fucking RIOT.
I think C- is being generous. I would give Ret an F, because out of all the specs in the game, it received probably the 2nd or 3rd least amount of changes / development. Definitely bottom five. And then to add to that, the paladin class tree is a joke - an absolute disaster that should in no way be going live. Every other melee in the game are getting new defensive combination options, and new mobility options. Ret is gaining nothing, and actually losing mobility. Ret still has the worst survival and mobility of any melee in PvE, and in PvP Ret still has the worst defensive CDs, and the self healing will work in BGs, but in arena (especially with ultra fast dampening in solo shuffle) Ret self healing will not function. I still haven't chosen a main yet for DF, but it certainly won't be paladin, which is sad because it is one of my favorite classes. I will be playing Druid most likely, but possibly shaman. Melee shaman are getting access to an insane amount of tools they didnt have before, defensives, mobility, control, you name it. Looks like fun.
@@Varaben Its kind of crazy the things some classes are gaining access to, but others nothing. Outlaw rogues are insanely strong right now, and even they are gaining access to shadowstep, shadowdance, full mortal strike effects, and 10% leech!
@@attinger117 yeah paladins didn’t get anything new from the class tree borrowed from the other specs. I get why we don’t have avengers shield or beacon, but what are we missing here? Why do shamans get freakin lightning lasso??
Rets have basically been on the ground while we get kicked over and over again FOR YEARS, idek what to think anymore, I'll just never understand Blizzard's incompetence!
Blizz have to trade somthing insted of just nerf and nerf and nerf our class and what i mean is ok to nerf some of our burst in cost of gain a reduce healing like almost all other class have or way more mobility , i am main ret like 14 years .
I wish our healing was better, like if they want us to be the healer hybrid that's great, let's do it. Give us more healing based support utilities. But we get nothing.
I main ret since wrath and I'm not liking how ret is looking, but I'll still give it a chance. Regarding mobility it looks like we are never going to get back what we had, we are slow punk ass stoppable juggernaults that can't take damage even though wear plates. I'm eyeing enhance right now.
@@ae86manny So I can see Ret being a bit overpowered with spellwarding, it's true. But change it then. Reduce the duration, make it dispellable, something. Since we can use LOH in arena now, against casters we would have a ton of defensives, maybe too many. If you rotated through bubble, divine prot, blessing of spellwarding, LOH it would be pretty good. But I feel like a lot of classes have that many defensives. Most classes have a defensive to trade every time someone else has an offensive, but Ret does not. When you're literally the target in every single game you play, that should be telling.
People would be okay with not having mobility if we excelled in the other areas but to have medioce damage,defensives and mobility just doesn't make sense
@@Varaben totally agree with you, I did see a ret reck a sham easily because of spellwarding. I'm not asking to be OP, if spellwarding was to strong then blizz can tune it down.
i hope it will change, today i got a 450k elemental explotion from a enhancement shaman, it cant be possible and need a nerf, so if they nerf some classes before launch they need to buff some others like rets, fire mages, evokers. AND PLS NERF FERALS BLIZZARD
Haha stick to see if Blizz makes changes in future. Oh man at least you gave me good laugh. If they did not do it now with this big talent feature for expansion they wont do it ever. They just dont care if people play ret or not and I bet you not a single person at Blizz plays ret paladin.
The thing is they didn’t really do much of anything. It’s not fundamentally broken it does work as a spec. It just isn’t keeping up with other classes. Look at Enh and rogues and warriors.
@@Varaben yeah pvp is what i played the most when i was younger i was on such hopeium thinking next expansion they will fix it, now if i played i would just pick the best pvp class and play that why waste my time being annoyed.
I've been playing ret paladin since wrath and I love my class. It sickens me to no end that blizzard keeps screwing us over and if something isnt fixed with the class soon I can only hope blizzard suffers a serious financial loss from all the ret players quitting
@@Varaben Yeah and I get what you're saying but the ret community needs to understand it's going to take A LOT for blizzard to actually listen to us. What better way to get a company to listen than to hit them in the pocket book?
Yeah... because they are built around survivability, utility, and buffs... oh wait.. they don't have any of those things anymore. THAT'S the problem. If they want to tone down the damage, that is fine and most Rets would be for it, but they NEED to buff up the other things that fits with the original class fantasy in exchange.
@@agustinsaag2278 It's annoying to see lop-sided communication where some classes like Warrior get tons of responses and others like Paladin and Mage got a little bit early then nothing later on. And all we got was nerfs later, it just looks bad.
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As someone who's played Paladin since 2005, I can confirm, Ret will always be a meme spec. It gets it's 15 minutes every other expansion and then burrows down into nearly-unplayable territory again only to resurface years later.
Fundamentally it needs an overhaul, but I think the Paladin class in general needs the same. Probably never gonna happen.
Honestly they fixed pve issues for rets. Single target dmg that dishes out aoe procs as we do st.
Pvp on the other hand, that's a whole other horse to tackle. I have a build that works around conc and slaps hardcore. But issue with that is, I'm locked onto my spec. I can't change anything and I have to stick with my package. Since a lot of other spells are locked into conc package.
As of now, ret, or rather my spec, is glas canon. Pop wings and delete everything I see, wings die down and I'm dead. It's a fun 2 minute spec so far
@@Vic-qp1gk I don't believe PvE for rets will really ever be fixed without an entire overhaul to how they do damage. At least for high-end M+ and Raid content, Rets are almost never a first (or even second choice).
I haven't played the pre-patch very much, but from what I saw with stacking covenenant + tier abilities with the new talents, many specs are just destroying in hilariously broken ways.
@J. Arnold also don't forget, it's prepatch. Just like legion into bfa and bfa into sl. Certain classes were slapping hard-core. Demo lock is an immortal god right now, but they flopped pretty easily at 70 ptr
Paladin has always done what its supposed to do. Just Switch class if u dont get paladin?
I still think we should get the ability Tyreal has in HoTS. You throw a sword imbued with light dealing holy damage and slowing any targets in a small radius around it. Reactivating the ability instantly teleports you to the blades location.
That would be dope.
Funny you mentioned it, cause that exact ability was tested during Legion alpha and scrapped due to being clunky and not appropriate to the class fantasy. Divine Steed, IMO one of the worst abilities in the whole game both aesthetically, thematically and mechanically, took its place.
Bonus fun fact: many years ago, around Cata, an ability was tested on paladins, it was sort of a holy jump with an holy aoe on the landing spot, but it got scrapped and became Warrior's Heroic Leap
No I'd prefer not to have a 3 step activation ability for movement. Give Ret and Prot Falling Sword from D3 Crusaders, Its basically the same thing but more direct. Or just give Final Reckoning a teleport/leap component. It can then auto cast Consecration with the 50% snare at the target location.
@@UgoneTheBest Basically what Falling Sword would be, except Falling Sword is more of teleport/Leap
@@covahredro8370 anything would be better than Divine Steed
I love how every video I see for ret says is subpar in utility, mobility, and defensives and now our damage is getting gutted, so we are not amazing at anything..... yet we've been getting nerfs every week for the past month and a half.
The damage isn’t bad to be fair. The thing is I have no idea how other classes are doing so we may very well be overtuned (or in the past we were). It’s more of an optics problem - like wow you take away x y z AND nerf damage? But damage was pretty nutty for a while.
@@Varaben enhance shaman is doing 3x our damage, WW monk is doing 2x of EVERYONES damage. Lol.
@@Sargaxiist2022 The bubble tax is real.
@@Varaben I'd gladly give up bubble for a playable class.
@@Sargaxiist2022 100%
“What’s my Final Verdict?” I see what you did there
I am a pun enjoyer like yourself
See you in Dragonflight boys and girls!
The fact that the paladin dev last response was months ago shows that they don't care meanwhile other classes devs talked with the community and look much better.
To be fair, the Mage and Warlock devs aren't much better. But from my understanding those classes had some better trees to begin with or had some significant changes. Ours really hasn't changed much since Alpha, which is crazy.
For a while now devs have kept WW, hunter and lock, occasionally rogue in top dps specs for pve and it looks like that's how it'll stay. Looking at evoker at Beta, it's dead last barely outperforming tanks in damage tells you a lot. They focus on classes the devs play and like, rest just get shafted and small changes here and there to keep them revitalized. Just see Shadow, beta shadow was slapping hardcore in pvp and pve. Prepatch changes made sure shadow is not worth to play as dps
God damn blizz, give us back our long arm of the law.
Never gonna happen - Ret either has to lose a bunch of healing or something else to give us mobility.
all specs such and are overwhelming to figure out I have givin up on this expac
It’s tough in prepatch cause we don’t have the full builds available. Really need those last few talent points to make it work.
Amazing video!
Thanks
The Ret dev actively IGNORED feedback, telling players that wasn't the direction they wanted to go. Oh, so you mean ignoring what players actually want and instead doubling down on the things they tell you they DON'T like, and have been telling you this for over half a decade? It reeks of the old "you think you do, but you don't" that we are used to from Blizzard.
The worst part is what these players want is to go back to the way things used to be, bringing back what was previously in the game and moving back to the original class/spec fantasy. There is no excuse for this.
It’s baffling to me that consecration got so much attention but seals are just passive bull crap. And auras don’t even have to be taken for the most part. Why not give us resistance auras back or something? I wish they were more active.
the bubble tax lives on strong i see in ret paladin, still enjoying ret in wotlk classic atleast
100% agree. The hybrid/LOH/bubble tax is so real.
So not getting into m+ groups cause of class choice season inc 😃
I mean that's us right now too! Though I haven't had a super terrible time getting groups to be fair.
@@Varaben Pugging +15 to +20s was hard to find groups for me😪
@@Eas_Planeswalker it def is not easy. I just spam invites and eventually it works lol.
"An engaged developer who care about your spec" oof the truth hurts
:((((
Man giving it a C is being nice. I'm giving it a straight fat F. It's just a watered down version of SL with less mobility and damage. They nurfed wings damage in sl and buffed normal damage but then nurfed us into the ground. Every pvp player looks at ret like we are Lolret again
Totally agree in pvp it’s gonna be rough. We’re so easy to kite, like 2v2 is gonna be pointless. Maybe in soloqueu but with our limited defenses we’re gonna be getting hammered all game.
Well said totally agree!
Played alot of ret these past 1.5 days in m+ and tbh.. it sucks. Might get better once reaching lvl 70 but I don't think it'll happen.. nah, lets stick to another class until Blizz decides ret gets a buff. Nice Vid, helped a lot by finding the right class for DF.. and for the first time ever it's not going to be Pally.
I wish Paladin got more attention, but we aren't alone. Perhaps Blizz just thinks we're great as-is? I dunno, I'd trade bubble for blessing of spellwarding in a heartbeat, but IMO Blizzard is design constrained by three spells: Consecration, Bubble, and Lay on Hands. These are just too strong and they seem to be glued to the kit.
Really you should just play WW, rogue, lock and hunter. Any other dps will always be inferior. But ret is fine aoe and st wise. Bit boring, but not the worst. If conc would follow you like immolation for DH does, would help a lot in pvp. Currently if you go conc spec for pvp it just drops it on the ground and players will just walk out and your spec is 80% useless. Hence I went around that mechanic and picked massive st judgment modifier boosts to where my wings period deletes anything I see, but then I get deleted shortly after lol
I was playing ret in M+ season one. And gave up like a month in or so. The main reason was I had to do 3x times more to achieve 2x less. I felt like my utility kit wasn't bad, but If I used it in any scenario it meant I'm loosing on already weak DPS. Pugging was nearly impossible cause no one would take ret to anything 17+ at the time. And I don't blame them. Why would you take retri when most retris did no dmg at all compared to some huntard or boomie that can play with 1 hand and still deal 2x your damage. The was some good dungeons for retriks, but overall I was super disappointed to see that in all these years blizzard still sucked at figuring out their fundamental error since vanilla which is class balance. I'm not saying every class has to be S tier, but when every expansion starts with 2-3 s tier 3-5 a tier and the rest is garbage you have to question how in all these years they couldn't even balance this shit out even remotely close. If they didn't want to change how dps works for retri they could have reworked how utility works. They don't want us to top dps? then make us useful in other way. I will never understand whats the point of having all these specs in a game if blizzard will simply tell you play the meta with 8 specs. I'm a type of player that won't play alts. My character is my baby. If I decide to play retri I will play retri. And if retri will suck then see you in 2 years cause there's no 2nd chances after so many years of disappointment. The whole point of MMORPG was to be free in a wild and play whatever you want to enjoy the game, but it is nearly impossible to enjoy the game when blizzard keeps cock blocking you. Ehh, they never learn from their mistakes.
@@vecislt I personally ally swapped to DH. Might not be the best dps out there, but I enjoy the class and that's new to me since forever. But I mostly pvp so even if dh sucks in pve. It's still fun in pvp. + all that mobility
@@Vic-qp1gk Sadly I don't do WoW PVP at all. I'm more into large scale PVP in MMORPG and what WoW has to offer in there department isn't really my cup of tea. I always enjoyed PVE side of WoW from time to time. I mean if dota2 can balance all their heroes then surely Blizzard should be able to at least try to do it. Sometimes it feels like they do no testing just put random numbers in :)
Been away since the end of Legion, looks like I'm out for another expac!
Oh man sorry to hear that.
About the guardian druids.... 😂😂
They just got a monster buff so congrats to them and F them.
I just wanna more mobility, but not a pony. Old arm of the law would be so cool, or a gap closer would be fun ):
Well I hear people saying there’s too many gap closers and casters are gonna have a bad time. Meanwhile we’re over here with nothing lol.
In spite of all the doomers saying Ret is a sub par spec I am absolutely enjoying playing it. At the end of the day 99% of people will not do m+ keys above 20, 99% will never set foot in a mythic raid and 99++ % still don’t have the ability play pvp at a high level. The class is not the crippling thing for most people, it’s their skill. I would rather be good at something I really enjoy rather than being another person in the sea of FOTM re rollers
I enjoy it too, but I worry it's too dependent on the lingering borrowed power systems from shadowlands. Necro ret feels great right now because I can get divine toll AND vanquishers hammer!
I’m so sad we don’t have vanquisher hammer spell anymore! :(
Yeah playing with it last night with new talents felt great :((((.
@@Varaben Thanks for replying! Taking the opportunity... I would like to ask you, the last talent spell from our conduits (Maldraxus) doesn´t work anymore? because that bonus of damage is about our Vanquisher Hammer spell.
sorry my english, and thanks for you attention :)
make final verdict talents affect justicars vengeance! i can't understand why that was not a thing from the beginning
and the talent node should be on its own.
100% agree. Make JV a choice node with FV IMO and make the TV/FV talents affect it. We're looking juicy then.
@@Varaben I'd rather it be a talent that allows for Templar's Verdict/Final Verdict to do some healing. I want to keep the range of Final Verdict, but not at the cost of damage from Justicar's Vengeance. Preferably I rather it actually be a talent that did AoE healing when using holy power spenders. Like how WotLK Ret's Divine Storm does. So Ret can be a bit of battle healer like you could be back in MoP with the Glyph of the Battle Healer which caused Seal of Light to heal the nearest injured ally. I miss it, I could Ret heal dungeons using it back then. Heck on group actually did a raid group using no healers and mostly rets using this Glyph. Or change it to be Aegisjalmur, the Armguards of Awe Legendary effect, a cheat death that give you a Shield of Vengeance. Would then make it more suitable talent choice when compare with Eye for an Eye on the choice node. One you could take over Eye for an Eye when dealing with Casters.
i have played a Ret paladin since day 4 of the game...
i have seen and weathered WORSE changes then this.
- Remember in vanilla when ALL of our main dps spells would be purged or spell stolen? and all we had was AUTO ATTACKS i do...
- Remember when every time we used wings mages would steal our wings... i do.
- Remember when we are ZERO horse for mobility i do... remember when
- Remember when forbearance was over 5 mins i do
- Remember when wings and bubble could NOT be used together i do
- Remember when we would attack SLOWER when we used bubble i do
- Remember the discrimination to paladins in vanilla from EVERY OTHER CLASS... i DO
I am not going to change fraking classes because of several doom and gloom videos on the internet saying our class is garbage...
ADAPT OVERCOME ENDURE, learn to play the class instead of whining
BUT if you DO decide to leave and change classes that means less competition for me
Wings being spell-stolen yuck. I agree that the Shadowlands Ret is not the worst and we're largely getting that again. If that were true for the other classes it would be fine. But have you seen mage mobility? Or every shaman getting lightning lasso? Or any warrior?
@@Varaben my point still stands adapt overcome and endure
i have a feeling thats why they are trying so pathetically hard to push consecration on us as our main form of dps, as a bandaid fix because blizzard devs is SO incompetent.
you have to remember shadowlands is the SECOND consecutive most hated xpac after BFA and if this happens AGAIN in dragon-flight the game for real this time may not recover.
The microsoft buyout of blizzard can't come soon enough
@@mrgoob76 why stick to a poorly designed class just to “overcome”
@@Millertimez16 because i have weathered worse and i have zero interest of relearning another class
@@mrgoob76 I get what you’re saying but there’s also the sunk cost fallacy. If blizzard doesn’t care about paladins then there’s some wasted energy trying to make something work when there’s 5 other melee that already do it better (arms enh roguex2 WW). They have more mobility, more control, unique buffs, better trees, etc. Ret just needed some love and it didn’t get it.
Nerf the damage, whatever. Gut the utility, fine. Give us crappy horse, sure, I guess.
Nerfing Art of War procs was the single most idiotic thing they could ever do. That's literally the core mechanic of the class and now we get less of it. Imagine if they reduced energy regen for rogues by 50%, or reduced maelstrom by 50%, people would fucking RIOT.
Also has the side effect of nerfing ashes to dust. One of the best mechanics we got in SL.
I think C- is being generous. I would give Ret an F, because out of all the specs in the game, it received probably the 2nd or 3rd least amount of changes / development. Definitely bottom five. And then to add to that, the paladin class tree is a joke - an absolute disaster that should in no way be going live.
Every other melee in the game are getting new defensive combination options, and new mobility options. Ret is gaining nothing, and actually losing mobility. Ret still has the worst survival and mobility of any melee in PvE, and in PvP Ret still has the worst defensive CDs, and the self healing will work in BGs, but in arena (especially with ultra fast dampening in solo shuffle) Ret self healing will not function.
I still haven't chosen a main yet for DF, but it certainly won't be paladin, which is sad because it is one of my favorite classes. I will be playing Druid most likely, but possibly shaman. Melee shaman are getting access to an insane amount of tools they didnt have before, defensives, mobility, control, you name it. Looks like fun.
I heard someone say “casters need all this mobility because every melee has 10 gap closers.” Feels bad.
@@Varaben Its kind of crazy the things some classes are gaining access to, but others nothing. Outlaw rogues are insanely strong right now, and even they are gaining access to shadowstep, shadowdance, full mortal strike effects, and 10% leech!
@@attinger117 yeah paladins didn’t get anything new from the class tree borrowed from the other specs. I get why we don’t have avengers shield or beacon, but what are we missing here? Why do shamans get freakin lightning lasso??
Rets have basically been on the ground while we get kicked over and over again FOR YEARS, idek what to think anymore, I'll just never understand Blizzard's incompetence!
Very sad.
Blizz have to trade somthing insted of just nerf and nerf and nerf our class and what i mean is ok to nerf some of our burst in cost of gain a reduce healing like almost all other class have or way more mobility , i am main ret like 14 years .
I wish our healing was better, like if they want us to be the healer hybrid that's great, let's do it. Give us more healing based support utilities. But we get nothing.
if they aint buffing ret pally, i aint paying this dlc
They aren’t lol. We’re doing ok really, but I don’t think we’re going to scale well, and in pve there’s just no reason to bring us especially on m+.
the static on the mic is just.. damn
Sorry about that, I didn’t even notice it.
I main ret since wrath and I'm not liking how ret is looking, but I'll still give it a chance.
Regarding mobility it looks like we are never going to get back what we had, we are slow punk ass stoppable juggernaults that can't take damage even though wear plates.
I'm eyeing enhance right now.
Enhance looks amazing with lightning lasso. I feel like that's what Ret was going to feel like with blessing of spellwarding :(((
@@Varaben I was so bummed that they took spellwarding from rets, yes blizz please do gimp ret more I don't need defensives what so ever. /rolleyes
@@ae86manny So I can see Ret being a bit overpowered with spellwarding, it's true. But change it then. Reduce the duration, make it dispellable, something. Since we can use LOH in arena now, against casters we would have a ton of defensives, maybe too many. If you rotated through bubble, divine prot, blessing of spellwarding, LOH it would be pretty good. But I feel like a lot of classes have that many defensives. Most classes have a defensive to trade every time someone else has an offensive, but Ret does not. When you're literally the target in every single game you play, that should be telling.
People would be okay with not having mobility if we excelled in the other areas but to have medioce damage,defensives and mobility just doesn't make sense
@@Varaben totally agree with you, I did see a ret reck a sham easily because of spellwarding. I'm not asking to be OP, if spellwarding was to strong then blizz can tune it down.
i hope it will change, today i got a 450k elemental explotion from a enhancement shaman, it cant be possible and need a nerf, so if they nerf some classes before launch they need to buff some others like rets, fire mages, evokers. AND PLS NERF FERALS BLIZZARD
Hybrid tax doesn’t exist for everyone
Haha stick to see if Blizz makes changes in future. Oh man at least you gave me good laugh. If they did not do it now with this big talent feature for expansion they wont do it ever. They just dont care if people play ret or not and I bet you not a single person at Blizz plays ret paladin.
Yeah that’s what’s sad is the talents were the big thing and for Ret it’s kind of a dud.
I think JV is amazing in pvp
It’s gonna be good against a lot of comps I just wish it benefited from TV/FV talents. Imagine if it combined with FV it would be amazing.
ur firealarm been beeping? change batterys =)
Hah probably. My microphone pics up everything I guess
Ret hit like wet noodle in BGS,don't know where ya got this op damage from unless they shadow nerfed us again before prepatch went live ?
It’s way different at 70.
they fucked ret up bigtime, NO MONEY!
The thing is they didn’t really do much of anything. It’s not fundamentally broken it does work as a spec. It just isn’t keeping up with other classes. Look at Enh and rogues and warriors.
I am glad i quit wow in cata, ret pala i apprently just to hard to get it right after all these years of feedback.
The thing is Ret doesn’t feel bad to play. It’s just no reason to bring us over other classes and in pvp we’re going to get rolled over.
@@Varaben yeah pvp is what i played the most when i was younger i was on such hopeium thinking next expansion they will fix it, now if i played i would just pick the best pvp class and play that why waste my time being annoyed.
Well this is depressing. I’ve always been a Ret fan but I’m thinking of converting to an arms boi
Me too. I still love Ret and plan to do Ret content but it’s so hard to main it right now.
ret are gonna be OP in the rated solo queue dont worry
We might be ok in solo queue just depends how reliably we get trained.
I've been playing ret paladin since wrath and I love my class. It sickens me to no end that blizzard keeps screwing us over and if something isnt fixed with the class soon I can only hope blizzard suffers a serious financial loss from all the ret players quitting
What sucks is it’s not a bad spec at all. Like it’s fun it’s just not keeping up with the other specs.
@@Varaben Yeah and I get what you're saying but the ret community needs to understand it's going to take A LOT for blizzard to actually listen to us. What better way to get a company to listen than to hit them in the pocket book?
@@Varaben that means it's bad
Play warrior if u want huge dps. Paladin class fantasy and role in the Game is different….
Yeah... because they are built around survivability, utility, and buffs... oh wait.. they don't have any of those things anymore. THAT'S the problem. If they want to tone down the damage, that is fine and most Rets would be for it, but they NEED to buff up the other things that fits with the original class fantasy in exchange.
I totally agree the class fantasy is different. But I’m not sure Blizz knows what it actually is, and how to make that into an actual playable class.
ok, leave rets...F...
We will see, I really enjoy Ret still. Just frustrated to see where it’s headed.
@@Varaben me too, but comunity perception and ignorin devs frustrated me...
@@agustinsaag2278 It's annoying to see lop-sided communication where some classes like Warrior get tons of responses and others like Paladin and Mage got a little bit early then nothing later on. And all we got was nerfs later, it just looks bad.
@@Varaben at least fire mages are meta class since ever..xD.
when rets are doing good dmg nerf!
when rets has utility nerf!
🤣
Hate it
:(((
QQ moar