BMW N54 335i Leaking Valve Re-Seat Lapping Attempt
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- BMW N54 335i Leaking Valve Re-Seat Lapping Attempt
So before going any further with the head or making and definite plans i thought i better try and see if i can reseat the valve. So this is my attempt at valve lapping for the first time. Please let me know if you think this will work.
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“I’ve been doing a lot of research.. by a lot of research I mean I’ve watched a couple videos while I was on the toilet”
I found this way funnier than I should have.. had me in stitches 😂👍🏼
As always great vibes and awesome content 👍🏼😎
Best way to check if the valves are sealed to the head while the heads off is to refit the valves and spring. Put the spark plugs in and turn the head over so the valves are facing towards to ceiling. Then fill the combustion chamber with petrol. No petrol should leak through the valves out through the inlet or exhaust ports. A little trick I learned from when I was at motor college
999
Definitely do the stem seals while you're in there.
But GENUINE only,same for gaskets. Its just not worth the risks and potential work if they fail....
@@tompayne4945 But isn't Victor Reinz the best?! 😁
Same! FROM RECENT EXPERIENCE! Definitely need to do stem seals and ONLY buy genuine.
@@zeroyon4562 I almost reported you for that! Haha
Feels good doesn’t it when you try something new that takes you out of your comfort zone and you do a good job 👍 a dull grey ring all the way round on the seat and valve and your golden 😎
A bit of rubber hose, WD40 and a cordless drill makes the job a lot quicker and easier. It's not a job you need to be too worried about/gentle with, an even surface colour all around the valve and seat is a good sign that you've got it right. With practice you can do an entire head in the time it took you to do your first ;-)
Good job on lapping the valve.Happy to see that it is sealing again. If I were you I would just replace the valve stem seals, because you have easy access and they are cheap anyway. Another thing you could do is with the head upside down (valves facing the ceiling) and fill each chamber with petrol or some kinda solvent, just so it covers the valves and let it soak for 5-10 minutes. If there are no leaks on either side, intake or exhaust, you're good,.but If you want you could relap the rest of the valves with the finer grit paste just to clean them up.If you decide to do that you can use a piece of a hose attached to the valve on the stem seal side and the other to a drill and grind the valves on low speed, like some guys on the comments said before me. There are casting marks on the cylinder head ports, if you look carefully after walnut blasting you could see that the surface looks just like sandpaper. If you have a tool like a dremmel, you can grind the surfaces flat with a sandpaper attachment so that it makes it harder for carbon to stick to. You can also polish the ports if you want to, there are good videos on youtube which explain what its all about.
Great work for giving it a go and teaching us amateur mechanics along the way. Thanks!
Get it hot tanked, new valve seals and clean up the factory machining in the ports, lap all the ports. Good to see your doing it yourself making good content!
I know that’s the right thing to do, but this motor will be temporary. I don’t wanna do anything I need to do, because it will be pulled out I. 6-12 months anyway
@@ZeroTo60Tube If you have time this is the way m.ua-cam.com/video/6CMrbiS2BsI/v-deo.html
Personally I’d seat all the valves and clean everything and keep all your valve train organised so everything goes back into the location it came from.
That change in sound is super satisfying 👍🏻
The last engine I took apart and put back together; we/I did not lap the valves. Didn't deem it necessary since we just wanted to port the head and install a bigger camshaft...a friend had made a joke about lapping the valves and I was dumbfounded...
Thanks to you, I am confident I could do it lol.
Love your patience and DIY know how. Great to see you break it down. I remember having my intake walnut blasted and I made sure to ask the shop to take before and after photos. Made the $$ all the more worth it to see how bad they were before, and then shine like new afterwards. Transformed the responsiveness as well. Looking forward to the rebuild.👍🏻
I was always taught to use engineers marking to check the valve has fully seated right across the whole width of the seat. Without it, you can do this and find it's only seated in a small narrow ring which will pass a fluid test but not last long. With engineers marking you can see high or low spots and can keep going until it's flat. This mainly applies to new valves though, for this a simple light pass probably got it perfect again
You can also use a piece of vacume hose on the rear of the valve, pushed over a drill bit and use the drill on slow speed forward/reverse. Same outcome but will cut down the work time, especially if you make the smart decision to service the whole head. Valves, valve guides, valve seals.
(Absolute minimum would be lap the valves and valve seals) 👍
Thanks for the tip on that one. Has to be better than this tool...
Old School stuff, as you do three or four alternate rotations you then lift the valve slightly one one alternate rotation (1/4 or so) which lets the paste go back into the seat surface and just continue. If the tone changes as you noted, you are not getting much benefit and need to lift. A minutes or so at that pace on each valve then onto the fine paste using same process. Experience will teach you the level of the lapping required based on seat conditions. From the video quality picture of that one valve, I would only have done the fine paste myself. Also note the correct way to check seat leakage as noted by others. Most definitely replace the valve stem seals at the end of this work. For me, I would then also cc the combustion chambers when the valves were reassembled, (but I am doing performance heads). The actual sealing surface is a fine line as the angle of the valve face is cut at a different angle to the seat.
Enjoyed that apart from the rag used🤣, id reseat/lap all the valves may as well while waiting on parts👍🏴
Job done mate. Well done. I’d be doing all of them and install new stem seals as well. Clean the shit out of all the ports.
Absolutely do them all while you got it in front of you. Half stepping might mean revisiting 😐
Not sure if it will help but in gunsmithing they use what is called a carding wheel to remove surface impurities off old metal gun parts without damaging the steel surface. Maybe look into that to clean the carbon off the valves before re-seating them. It's a really soft wire wheel on a bench grinder that is gentle enough that you can stick your finger in it while spinning and it wont even cut your skin.
Glad to see you’re confidence in giving over 20 minutes of content. I’d have watched an hour if you posted it. Great job. Btw, I’m an 07’ E90 N54 6m/t owner. TeamN54!
Thanks dude. Appreciate the support!
Haha, "I've been doing a lot of research" aka watching a lot of videos while sitting on the toilet 😂 Amen, its the only place we get some peace and quiet from the Mrs or kids 😝 24 minutes later and I've got elbow craters on my thighs and my legs have gone to sleep 🤣
I used MANOL intake valve cleaner here in the UK. Worked brilliantly, 6 for £20!, used three to do all 6 intake ports.
Looks good to me. When I worked for Lexus and we had carbon buildup cause misfires the service bulletin had us tear the engine down and clean the valves with a wire wheel on a bench grinder. You have been far more detailed that a Lexus factory repair for a smaller concern.
No surprise really. I get it tho, dealers are about making it good enough, not perfect.
You can hit the face of the valve with a wire wheel on a bench grinder....you won't hurt the valve.
I've used crc. It's ok not great. Still gotta work to get everything off and it's not cheap. Don't know prices in Australia but a local machine shop boiled my head and pressure tested it for $100. Totally worth it. Wasn't a spec of carbon left. Either walnut blast it or have it boiled. If not you'll waste time and $.
23 more valves to go the lapping compound works great for resealing, just be careful with the injectors nozzles when cleaning the champer, clean all the carbon off everything and put new VALVE stem seals on the clean head looks great
I usually clean up the valves on a wire wheel on a bench grinder before lapping them in also would for sure replace valve steam seals while you have it apart and I would drop the pistons out replace the rings and change the bearings as well freshen it all up. you may have cracked a ring and there is no real way of knowing with out dropping out the pistons.
You know there is always the saying, "if it anit broke dont fix it"! However, if the process your doing is correct. You should go ahead and do them all. You are already in there, i would go ahead and do it. It would be a shame for another Valve to do the same and you have to repeat the process. I hope this helps. Best of luck, can't wait to see thr next move.
All the quality research is always done on the toilet lol. Glad you had a go at lapping the valves yourself, just remember you can always take a little more material off but you can't put it back on, when you use a new compound you should start with the least aggressive and go from there.
Great point!
The crc stuff is okay but I’ve never tried the stuff you are using. Seems like it works just as good if not better than the crc. I ended up cleaning my intake valves with 2 full cans of crc and it really wasn’t taking too much of the carbon off without me having to use a soft baby toothbrush. It’s all good, my kid was done with it. I also just didn’t want to buy the walnut blast stuff but it ended up turning out okay.
Looks like your a natural! Good job Mate!
Electrolyzing gets ever thing very clean
Even aluminum? Aluminum is anodized by soaking it in a tank and passing a current through it. The aluminum is the anode. This grows a layer of aluminum oxide over the surface of the aluminum part. Not sure you'd want to do this to a head. It would screw up the tolerances and the aluminum oxide is porous which isn't good for sealing. It is very hard, however, which may or may not be good.
Bristle disc can sometimes be used as they are not suppose to remove any material aka (metal) but clean up all deposits. People will often use them to clean off gasket material, rtv etc. So if the cleaners don't work you can try that as they have various coarse to fine ones you can use.
Well done mate, the method of using that tool to lap the valve is great if u have patience but if ur like me u start of using that tool then after the 4th valve ur like f that I’m using the drill, take less than quarter of the time, I done a Rover v8 n port a n polish years ago can be quiet satisfying 👍🏻
So is no one going to pull out the fact that he use his boxers to get the brake cleaner
Just another Dickass related item to join the channel. 😂
I thought I was the only one that noticed that 😂😂😂
If you take the time to clean up all the valves an engine shop should be able to vacuum leak test the head for you for minimal cost to be extra sure it’s done. Defo worth it after that effort 👍🏻
Good stuff for doing it yourself man and not just sending it to a shop.. valve lapping is a right pain in the ass but well worth it especially on a gummedup valve like that.. the old drill on the back of the valve definitely helps to make it a faster job if you can get it onto the back of the valve and then fresh guide seals would clean it up really nice especially if you walnut blast the intake side 😊 either way looking forward to seeing it back on the street 😁🤘
Well done all your hearing is normal as the seats are hard so it needs a coarse paste just remember to do a spit polish at the end and only 23 more to do
Great to see the progress, look forward to its journey back to the streets!
You and me both!
while the head is off, why dont you polish the combustion chamber ? It eliminates potential high spots carbon can stick to or form hot spots that cause detonation, plus a smooth surface is more resistant to carbon build up and detonation/pre ignition/knock (insert your preference of a combustion event happening before the spark plug fires in here) resulting in higher boost. I have linked a video below that will help. Also leave porting for the tried and tested performance shops, you dont want to hit a water or oil jacket/channel doing exploratory porting with a Dremel , what you can do on your own is simply smoothen out the casting lines/imperfections inside the intake ports and exhaust ports.
Before anyone chimes in about rough intake ports are better for turbulence and fuel atomization and reduces pooling , there is no fuel in the intake ports, its not a carbureted/port injection engine, its a direct injection engine, secondly: turbulence hinders flow, and it being a forced induction engine, you want as little resistance in the intake tract as possible, so smoother ports means more flow especially under boost therefore more power at same boost levels
ua-cam.com/video/iejDWSQEsqI/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Jafromobile
its much easier if you use a rubber hose thats fits on the valvestem and working it from the other end instead of using that tool with a suction cup.
“So maybe the sealing surface is getting SO good” 🤣👍
Looks like you're good. Been doing that on small engines for years and never had a problem. While the head is out, I would go ahead and lap the other valves and valve seals, just in case
Right I think the descisions made already. Lap the lot and valve stem seals.
You can get a wobble adaptor for the drill which does a very good job
Definitely throw a drill on the back to speed up the process. But yeah you did a great job, as long as there is a solid ring around the valve and seat, with no pitting you’re golden.
I’d do all the valves and valve seals. As you said they are cheap. Plus you said you wanted to build an engine eventually. You can just reuse this head with all the work you’ve done.
Great job for a first time, definitely kick back with a beer lad.
Thanks Dude! Learning as we go!
Valve lapping looks good to me. Any reason you can't walnut blast the bottom of the head and the valve faces?
Change the valve stem seals. Change all the seals.
No Theres not..... apart from the walnut going everywhere like a bomb.
Should be good. It's a bit time consuming, I'd go a little longer on each but heaps cheaper than taking it to a machine shop. Good plan
Really enjoying the DIY.
Great job, only 23 valves to go now. Pro tip, pink bikini underwear will help clean those valves quicker lol.
You already know what you should do and I suspect you are already going down that path. Clean the intake ports, lap all the valves, some new stem seals and reassemble. Your lapping process is spot on, a little tedious but the results are exactly what you are looking for. You are doing more than almost anyone else would. I would think once with the coarse then twice with the fine but your results are very good so I would stick with it. I have done a few with the lapping tool but soon adopted the drill approach, as long as you can get a drill onto the top of the valve I'd go that way. I put a little piece of hose that fits snugly on the valve and then grab that with the drill chuck so I am absolutely sure not to nick the tip of the valve.
Sweet thanks for the advice
Lol cleaning with old boxers! My girl never understood why I keep my old ones. This is the reason, incase I take my n54 head off.
Wow, learn something new every day. I've seen a lapping tool in the automotive store but didn't know what it was for till now. I say do all of them and once done see if can get a ya or na from a lapping pro?
Port and polish the head! Should improve quite a lot of things
Yeees, my boss will understand that you uploaded ...
Hahaha, commitment.
Yes that is the correct way to lap the seat of valve , do not overdo it .
hi guys, did you ever do a video on how to Swap your steptronic paddles for the dct paddles? now you've recovered the e90 steering wheel that had steptronic paddles can you show what you need to do to install the dct paddles? keep up the good work guys 👍 #team N54
Mine actually came with the car. However i know how to do it, it's much easier than you'd think. I have also wired up a friends old style push pull paddles, to work like the LCI paddles.
If mr miagi was still alive he would be proud of your “wax on...wax off” of that valve.
You have learned so much grasshopper.
Nah ahah awww shit! 😂
I would most definitely use a battery powered drill a bosch or something and do this job as it wont be an uneven weighted spin that you're getting with your hands. chop one side of the wooden stick off and stick it into the chuck of a drill and do the same job. will be Much quicker and way more accurate. Your hands will always cause slightly more weighting at a certain point.
Because it was cleaning the seat more one side than the other ,I would be considering the condition of the valve, ie distorted head not seating straight. From an overheated valve?
The vw 1.8t valves are known for dropping valve heads with turbo upgrades, due to higher temps etc.
you did just fine lapping in the valve i reckon you should do the rest yourself practice makes perfect but i would replace valve stem seals at least for around 100 bucks money well spent
Fair point fair point!
You have to do valve stem seals, cheap as shizzle, and if you are lapping valves you don't put old seals back on.
I think just test each valve and lap when required, get it good and in the beastie and then build the current one the way you really want.
re-seat all the valves while the heads off, you'll be crazy not to and all its going to cost you is time, least you'll have confidence that you'll have no trouble with the other valves down the road
Would strongly recommend changing the stem seals, but if you are doing all the valves why don’t get the head dipped to remove all the crap, put new stem seals in then get it pressure tested to make sure all is good. Definitely not a job you want to do more than once
Well done, again!
Hey you can get crc at autobarn in nsw check them out they also deliver if you buy online and live outside of nsw
Hi i have a 2008 bmw 535xi and i replaced the valve cover gasket and the oil filter housing gasket but when i do a pull on 2nd gear the car smoke from exhaust blue smoke help
As long as the seat and the valve has a fresh grind mark all the way around, the valve will seat properly
Stem seals and springs, you are there!
I've always used a fuel hose to hold the valve stem (pulling force) from the other side of the head when lapping,
Never tried that tool.
Great vid!!
The "towel" your using looks like a set of undies. As for the valve head, yes I would lap all of them. But I would also replace all the valve stem seals in that head as those are liable to leak on many BMW's causing sooty exhaust.
Definitely lap the rest of the valves, as for the valve seals is it going to play on your mind that you didn't replace them once the engine is back in?...
I swear its carbon build up on my drawers
clean those things to bare metal before lapping so you don't cause odd seat to valve contact wear. Once the crud is removed, lapping does not take very long at all. Be sure to lift the valve and rotate 90 degrees frequently so you are not just lapping the same section of the valve lip and seat. But please remove ALL carbon build up so you start with clean bare metal on both the valve and the seat!! I would forego the course abrasive unless it is absolutely needed as it will score deeper than necessary otherwise. generally unless there is a major problem the fine abrasive will give you a sealing ring in just a few minutes of lapping. use dykem and see if the blue transfers from the seat to the valve fully without spinning it. that should tell you when you have a good seal, repeat in multiple rotations to verify then you are done. the dykem test will show much better how good of a contact you have around both the valve and the seat, this is important as the better the contact patch the more efficiently the valve can transfer heat into the head, you are looking for a uniform width on the dyken witness mark around the valve edge. very important for exhaust valves! the sealing test will get you by but you could have odd contact patch in some areas and it will still seal. this can lead to burnt valves and wierd carbon build up. also polish those valve faces if you have the time, it will help tremendously with carbon build up! hope that helps!
Haha these n54s are cursed. I installed Upgrade turbos 4 months ago on my n54, just to get the joy of huntig down a boost leak for the last couple months. Yesterday I found out, that my Wastegates were set to 300mbar instead of the correct 200mbar. That's gonna be fun rippin all this shit apart again!
Here is a special tip from me: Don't rely on chinese pressure gauges, when measuring stuff. Buy quality pressure gauges from WIKA for example! The original chinese one on my vaccuum pump showed 3inhg instead of the actual 9inhg.
Nice rag. Lol
I have some like that too. With skids
I wouldn't mind seeing brake clean down a good valve - do any others weep even a tiny bit ? Thanks for the video Andrew 👍
I only checked the one next to this valve it didn't weap at all either. But i will check every one during the cleaning process.
Put oil (or spit) on the valve head to get the tool to stick. Now that you have lapped the seats you can do your light check again and a vac test but better is to use some bearing blue to make sure you have a full seat. Don't turn the valve when doing it. It's possible that you get a seat dropping away from the heat which you can mask by lapping and turning. The blue will show you the true result. Bash some stem deals on it and slap it together for more boost (while monitoring EGT (check Ali express)). More importantly why don't you repeat this process on the engine in the car? Head off and lap in the car maybe?
That's money 👍
Woohooo!
A/C and a hoist, so jealous.
We legit hit the jackpot with this rental.
Got a second hand motor thankfully I didn't put it in. Intake valve on 6 leaking air. Do you think with port injection it will clean it up and help seal?
Anything is possible. But i wouldn't rely on it it cleaning it up 100%.
If it holds liquid it’s good
you can also check the valves, if they don't seal you'll normally make some bubbles
also it's easier if you buy the tool for the drill or socket driver
Try a set of neway valve seat cutters
why dont you polish all the ports once head is out!
Cordless drill... you’ll thank me later. If you also lift valve up and down a couple of times as you spin you’ll use less product, and use some water to keep it moist
Good call!
Nice, period.
It would be worth it ,to me, to have the combustion chambers softened by a shop that can do that kind of work and it might be worth putting berillium valve seats put in the head.
I know that’s the right thing to do. But this engine is just a temporary fix. We’ll go all out on the next one.
@@ZeroTo60Tube ooh!
OMG! You spent $2k in brakes and can't pay for a machine shop to steam clean it, pressure test, resurface it and do a 3 angle valve job that will be better for performance.... Just amazing!
Still 1/4 the price of what the brakes should have been. It’s about value, not every single dollar.
put some spit on the suction cup works everytime
That’s what she...... never mind
@@ZeroTo60Tube my old man use to say give it a lick and a tickle it usually fixes the problem lol
you think your e92 engine problem is bad i am changing 2 quarter panels and a roof on my e90 335i coupe bought a stat write off and a cleaned title body shell with damage and i am changing quarters roof interior complete front end and rear end full ground up repair if i wasn;t a panel beater i would have just put the engine in my e90 320i so who's a glutten for punishment thats why i like watchin videos like yours to keep me motivated cheers from broken hill
It's better to get the head completely rebuild with such high mileage and high performance use. Just lapping it won't make it seal perfectly,the valve guides are worn which allow the valve to have a slight side to side play and with each revolution the valve seats differently compromising your compression.
This motor has only done 120ks, so 70,000 miles. You think it will be warn out?
@@ZeroTo60Tube thought it had 200ks, that's a tricky question,but since the seats were covered in carbon so could be the stems and the carbon could have worked as an abrasive, especially on direct injection motor.
Use gas to check if is leaking ,much thinner
Thats a good idea. Any tips on how to do that?
you should verify it with something like WD40. Creeping properties are different from break cleaner and should give you the definitive picture.
Makes sense. Might try that as wrll
Got a soda blaster or dry ice cleaner you have access to? I'd pull all the valves, clean the head properly, lap all the valves, replace valve stem seals and call it "reconditioned"
I have the walnut blaster but that’s all. But your right it won’t take much to make it a “reconditioned” head
@@ZeroTo60Tube I reckon that would do. Might need to plug up the valve stem holes so you dont get stuff in there. Some walnut blasters you can load soda in, instead of walnut shells. Soda is just a little less abrasive.
Absolutely no reason why you can't diy the head seeing as there is no actual machine work needed. In regards to getting access to the crank bolt, I'd just pull the thermo fan out to get all the access you need from the top!!! Probs going to need to come out anyway 😉👍👍
Id call a machine shop and get a quote. Not sure what your time is worth is, but trying to lap 24 valves by hand seems very time consuming.
Very time consuming. But learning something useful for the future is invaluable. I’d like to be able to build an engine competently and know when something is good or bad.
2:22 lol sounds like my life.
Hahah
Why not build this into your race motor since you have this out and apart. Put original into storage and much late repair and return it to stock form before selling the car.
I don’t have the money to build an engine right now. Not properly anyway. Just want to get this in the car so we can keep playing with the 17ts for now.
I ordered CRC intake valve cleaner from eBay coming from NSW few months ago. Looking at it now on ebay it's still available. search CRC intake valve cleaner in ebay. "ezicarparts" is the seller.
Why is everyone so surprised about the underpants .... all underwear eventually become an oil rag or car wash rag if you work on your own cars. Just wash out the skid marks 1st lol
Yeah exactly and another good reason to have bulk brake clean on hand.