Great single engine demonstration Eric....very helpful for those considering an Aerostar to see how manageable an event this is with good training. Thank you
Another great video looking at your speeds when I had the 600a It had a stall speed about 8-10 mph more than the 700 due to the shorter wing. My speeds used to be in MPH 140 down wind, 120 base 110 short final bleeds of the last 10 mph touch down at about 95 the stall was about 88 mph. single engine being lighter aircraft single engine about the same 500 fpm. Christopher
Loss of an engine in a piston twin at a critical time is a nightmare and makes for a very busy pilot. Your calm and cool demonstration of a real engine out situation was fascinating and and shows the true utility and strength of an AeroStar. I have lusted after the Aerostar ever since seeing my first one up close and personal and fell in love when I started flying and working at a Piper FBO (KOWD) back in the '70s, IMO, the AeroStar was a maligned and misunderstood airplane due to it's high accident rate. It required a properly trained and disciplined pilot with enough experience to understand that you need to fly the AeroStar by the numbers, a situation also faced by the Mitsubishi MU-2. The AeroStar wasn't your Daddy's Piper Aztec. I have just discovered your channel. Thank you for your contribution to the safety of General Aviation with your insightful and educational videos. I'll keep watching as long as you keep making them.
Nicely flown, Eric. Thanks for sharing this practical demonstration. It’s actually closer to a climb rate of 230-250ft/min (calculated by using the altimeter and a stopwatch). I find that VSI’s are generally not reliable during these demos. The demo is at a high density altitude, so the rate would be a little better closer to MSL. (Handy having turbochargers for this demo.) Nice to have the confidence that you’ll probably get positive performance if you lose one on takeoff and handle it proficiently. Thanks again.
I've only had two opportunities to fly an AeroStar. Both times were pick up the new planes at the factory, flying them to San Diego, prepping them for cross Pacific flights then, fairing them to there final destination in the South Pacific Islands. Until then, I had no idea how much better these small G.A. Twins were compared to others since most of my time in G.A. Twins consisted of Seneca's, Navajo's, 310's and 321's.
Hi, I liked your videos about Piper Aerostar, I thinking buy an aerostar but I living in Brazil. This plane is amaizing very fast and it has the same price as a Seneca III in Brazil
a good friend of mine was killed in Kokomo in an Aerostar. jet fuel in an avgas plane....lost left engine first on takeoff/climb out. No chance of recovery.....
Sorry to hear that, there was another fatal Aerostar miss fueling accident I am aware of in the last couple years. ALWAYS be there when they fuel your plane.
@@AerostarPilot Yes, indeed....always! This may be the same accident. The pilot was a 10,000 hour plus/aerobatic/FAA examiner. When he landed, the ground crew pulled up in a jet-a truck and asked "do you need (jet) fuel'? Response: "yep". He apparently didnt look up, wasnt paying attention, or was distracted.......ground continued to grind the square peg into the round hole, spilling fuel as he pumped in a death sentence. Just a stupid stupid stupid scenario that shouldnt have happened. but it did, and continues to do so. R.I.P., Dan....
I remember that incident. Simple mistakes that kill. It’s hard to see true color of fuel in tanks if mixed with AVGas. Even if checked... best opportunity to catch it is in preflight with visual checks with fuel from check valves under the aircraft.
I could see your plane talking when the speed came back up, it was saying “yes this is where I like it, fly me faster than the other guys cause that’s what I’m built for”. HaHa.
Check out the prop governor before you do this!!! Been there, done that! Almost had to ditch one in the Catalina sound checking out unfeathering characteristics with both fans stopped! A stupid dare by some idiot flying along for the ride! Damn near killed the battery trying to restart either motor until we got to good air at 2500 ft to get one of the engines to cough back to life! We broke off the finial approach on the sail boat and waggled our wings at the hapless skipper as we nursed the other motor back to life and “limped” back to the Ted R. Smith plant at Van Nuys. After a good return and tying down our airplane, I coly snuck out to replace the knobs on the magneto/starter switches who’s handles somehow got bent during that flight.
To quote from Foster Brookes in his hilarious 'Airline Pilot' sketch with Dean Martin: Dean: The plane lost an engine. Foster: Don't worry. it will turn up.
great video. thanks for sharing. all your videos are very informative. just got my multi rating in an Aztec. it was a lot of fun and a challenge. would love to get an aerostar after I build up some twin time in the aztec. any chance you could share a typical year of maintenance costs?
With all due respect, the engine was never lost. It was dead, it was shutdown, it quit… If ya lost it, it probably took part of the wing, both of which have much more dire consequences. Don’t mean to nit-pick, but I’m sure you can agree, specificity is important.
Wanted to ask, how are you getting gpws (altitude) callouts for landing. Is it a specific avionic that is giving that information to you? Also what is the brand/name of your terrain/weather radar?
dead foot .. dead engine means ? rudder pedal you need to push to get centered is the right pedal correct ? seems one pedal will have stronger forces on it correct ?
@@craigbmm4675 you will have to keep pressure on the right rudder in the case where the left engine has failed along with some right aileron. Generally you will have the "ball" on the turn coordinator cut in half and 3-5° of bank into the good engine for optimal performance. The faster you go, the less of these corrective forces will be required. This is a great video taking about two VMC accidents and the theory behind VMC. ua-cam.com/video/Wbu6X0hSnBY/v-deo.html
ok watching the video again i understand " going to hook my left foot behind the pedal ." for added force to help push right pedal down . . got it now . and add the 3 degree aileron to the right
@@craigbmm4675 The foot hook is great when you doing training with OEI. If for real and you had to cruise for some time, trim and the autopilot work just fine.
Good day Sir. Thanks for your videos. How do you think is it realistic to operate this plane for a guy 6'1 260 lbs or it would be better to look for something else?
It’s actually a climb rate of 230ft/min (using the altimeter and a stopwatch). Rate indicators are generally not accurate during these demos. But the demo is at a high density altitude, so the rate would be a little better closer to MSL. (Handy having turbochargers for this demo.)
When the center of gravity (CG) of a twin-engine aircraft moves aft, the vertical stabilizer and rudder have a reduced moment arm. This results in less yaw control authority making it harder for the pilot to counteract any asymmetric thrust caused by one of the engines failing. Vmc is the speed below which aircraft control cannot be maintained if the critical engine fails under a specific set of circumstances. It is marked as a red radial line on most airspeed indicators
Hi Brendan - First, join the Aero Owers Association and read the forum. www.aerostar-owners.com/ This is the single best source for good information on owning and operating the aircraft. Second- Check into insurance, Aerostars are specialty aircraft and very high performance, and require specialized training and a specialized broker. I suggest Lance VanWormer at CS&A. (615) 435-8295. Call and talk to him before you call any other broker. These aircraft are wonderful machines but do take some care and understanding of systems. Once you start looking and think about a purchase, make sure you have an Aerostar shop do a pre-buy. Aerostar Aircraft in Coeur d Alene, ID who is the type certificate holder or JD Aviation at Capital City near Harrisburg, PA. Ken Bacon's organization in Tulsa, Master Aviation in Connecticut and Aerostar World in Alabama. Third and probably the most important. If you were to buy something newer with this kind of performance you would be spending well over 1.5 million. There are Aerostar 700's out there for $150k and unfortunately at that price point there are pilots who buy them but don't have the resources to properly maintain them. To get a get a good 700hp Aerostar they will run closer to $400k so if you buy one at $150, you can expect to spend another $250k in updates and TLC to get it to the point where you want it. I only used the 700hp version as an example, there are the normally aspirated versions for the flat landers who don't need to fly in the flight levels up to the 702P certified up to FL 300 but limited to FL280 due to RVSM rules. Operating cost of a 700hp 702P in good condition will run a little less than $400 per flight hour, dry. This would be based on my experience with N11111. This includes insurance, annuals, hangar and all other general maintenance and reserves for time limited parts like the engines. Basically everything. I came up with this number based on actual costs divided by 150 hours per year flight time.
@@ludastorm 900 meters is about 2900 feet which would be a little short for my 700. I do go into 3000' paved strips that don't have obstacles close by. A lighter 600 would be fine. You would need to be on your game! The real issue will be balanced field length on the take off. Overall the Aerostar is capable for that length with practice.
Yes it does. The rudder trim is powerful enough to deal with an engine out. In fact the old King KFC 200 will fly an ILS with one engine just fine after you trim the rudder.
@@AerostarPilot thanks for the reply. When you were talking about hooking your foot under the left rudder for more leverage, i found myself wondering why you couldn't just trim it out. When i was a lineman back in the late 80s we had an aerostar at our field and it was hot sh*t back in the day. All the instructors wanted a turn in the right seat and sometimes got a chance from the pilot that flew it for the corporate owner. They all commented on having to work to stay ahead as things happened faster.
@@socomon69 It still is hot sh**t ! The only reason I mentioned the foot hook of the rudder pedal is during training. If you are only going to operating on one engine for a couple minutes it simplifies the process. For example when doing a simulated engine out shortly after takeoff where you are going to climb to pattern altitude, fly the pattern and land with a simulated engine out it makes it a lot easier since you would constantly have to re-trim for the speed and attitude changes. If for real and you had some distance to go, absolutely trim the pressures away.
@@AerostarPilot makes sense. Thx. The advent of the single turbine maybe stole a wee bit of the aerostar's luster, but i still wouldn't throw it out of bed for eating crackers. 😂
@@socomon69 I still feel more comfortable in a capable piston twin over mountains IFR at night than I would in a turbine. Probably more psychological than anything though.
Always good to see coordinated turns to final (at least according to the string)
Great single engine demonstration Eric....very helpful for those considering an Aerostar to see how manageable an event this is with good training. Thank you
Sigh, I've always wanted to fly in a twin. Seems like a lot of fun. Thanks for making this content so I can vicariously live through them!
Amazing skills!
Great flight and performance. Looking forward to the next one. Thanks Eric!
Great Channel... Keep-’em Coming.. Very Complex aircraft. I learn something every time I watch your videos. Thank You.
Another great video looking at your speeds when I had the 600a It had a stall speed about 8-10 mph more than the 700 due to the shorter wing. My speeds used to be in MPH 140 down wind, 120 base 110 short final bleeds of the last 10 mph touch down at about 95 the stall was about 88 mph. single engine being lighter aircraft single engine about the same 500 fpm. Christopher
The tip about slowing down, great tip and i will remember it. Always love the videos and cant wait for more.
Loss of an engine in a piston twin at a critical time is a nightmare and makes for a very busy pilot. Your calm and cool demonstration of a real engine out situation was fascinating and and shows the true utility and strength of an AeroStar. I have lusted after the Aerostar ever since seeing my first one up close and personal and fell in love when I started flying and working at a Piper FBO (KOWD) back in the '70s, IMO, the AeroStar was a maligned and misunderstood airplane due to it's high accident rate. It required a properly trained and disciplined pilot with enough experience to understand that you need to fly the AeroStar by the numbers, a situation also faced by the Mitsubishi MU-2. The AeroStar wasn't your Daddy's Piper Aztec.
I have just discovered your channel. Thank you for your contribution to the safety of General Aviation with your insightful and educational videos. I'll keep watching as long as you keep making them.
Very Impressive. Enjoyed sharing the experience.
Thank you Stephen. These are fun to do when I have a little extra time from my real estate business. Are you a pilot?
my primary CFI used to shut off the fuel supply when we weren't looking. Priceless TNG
Excellent! Thanks Eric.
Nicely flown, Eric. Thanks for sharing this practical demonstration.
It’s actually closer to a climb rate of 230-250ft/min (calculated by using the altimeter and a stopwatch). I find that VSI’s are generally not reliable during these demos.
The demo is at a high density altitude, so the rate would be a little better closer to MSL. (Handy having turbochargers for this demo.)
Nice to have the confidence that you’ll probably get positive performance if you lose one on takeoff and handle it proficiently.
Thanks again.
I've only had two opportunities to fly an AeroStar. Both times were pick up the new planes at the factory, flying them to San Diego, prepping them for cross Pacific flights then, fairing them to there final destination in the South Pacific Islands. Until then, I had no idea how much better these small G.A. Twins were compared to others since most of my time in G.A. Twins consisted of Seneca's, Navajo's, 310's and 321's.
Nice video Eric. Excelente ROC. Y use to fly a 601B...unable to maintain more than 700 fpm..
Hi, I liked your videos about Piper Aerostar, I thinking buy an aerostar but I living in Brazil. This plane is amaizing very fast and it has the same price as a Seneca III in Brazil
Nice video👍 Looks like it’ll keep you quite busy if running the same scenario single pilot.
a good friend of mine was killed in Kokomo in an Aerostar. jet fuel in an avgas plane....lost left engine first on takeoff/climb out. No chance of recovery.....
Sorry to hear that, there was another fatal Aerostar miss fueling accident I am aware of in the last couple years. ALWAYS be there when they fuel your plane.
@@AerostarPilot Yes, indeed....always! This may be the same accident. The pilot was a 10,000 hour plus/aerobatic/FAA examiner. When he landed, the ground crew pulled up in a jet-a truck and asked "do you need (jet) fuel'? Response: "yep". He apparently didnt look up, wasnt paying attention, or was distracted.......ground continued to grind the square peg into the round hole, spilling fuel as he pumped in a death sentence. Just a stupid stupid stupid scenario that shouldnt have happened. but it did, and continues to do so. R.I.P., Dan....
I remember that incident. Simple mistakes that kill. It’s hard to see true color of fuel in tanks if mixed with AVGas. Even if checked... best opportunity to catch it is in preflight with visual checks with fuel from check valves under the aircraft.
Thanks Eric!
I could see your plane talking when the speed came back up, it was saying “yes this is where I like it, fly me faster than the other guys cause that’s what I’m built for”. HaHa.
Check out the prop governor before you do this!!! Been there, done that! Almost had to ditch one in the Catalina sound checking out unfeathering characteristics with both fans stopped! A stupid dare by some idiot flying along for the ride! Damn near killed the battery trying to restart either motor until we got to good air at 2500 ft to get one of the engines to cough back to life! We broke off the finial approach on the sail boat and waggled our wings at the hapless skipper as we nursed the other motor back to life and “limped” back to the Ted R. Smith plant at Van Nuys. After a good return and tying down our airplane, I coly snuck out to replace the knobs on the magneto/starter switches who’s handles somehow got bent during that flight.
Great video!
To quote from Foster Brookes in his hilarious 'Airline Pilot' sketch with Dean Martin: Dean: The plane lost an engine. Foster: Don't worry. it will turn up.
Wow the numbers on that thing aren't much different than a Baron! In terms of Take off and VYse.
Yeah, and the 58P is only a couple knots slower based on book numbers.
Gosh I love the radar altimeter callouts
I logged on to post a comment asking where the callouts came from. I guess now I have my answer, But there must be more to it than that.
I’ve seen that airplane at Oshkosh before
Good video - very informative - very enjoyable
I think multi engine pilots can not do too much of this type of training.
Right.
Excellent video ! I flew a 601p 110 hs, they ask what power does those engines have? greetings from Argentina !
TIO 540-U2A 350hp a side.
@@AerostarPilot Thank you ! beautiful plane
Nice.
Why tap the brakes before retracting gear?
Stops the wheels from spinning reducing the gyroscopic loads on the rear.
What black box does your radar altimeter call outs? Really nice …
I believe it is tied into the Sandel TAWS.
@@AerostarPilot thanks for replying. I thought maybe so…any idea if it work with RA ducer and guage or independently with baro you set?
great video. thanks for sharing. all your videos are very informative. just got my multi rating in an Aztec. it was a lot of fun and a challenge. would love to get an aerostar after I build up some twin time in the aztec. any chance you could share a typical year of maintenance costs?
Sounds like a subject for another video.
I haven't watched this video, but I would bet big money that they didn't lose an engine.
True in the fact it didn't fall off the airplane :)
With all due respect, the engine was never lost. It was dead, it was shutdown, it quit… If ya lost it, it probably took part of the wing, both of which have much more dire consequences. Don’t mean to nit-pick, but I’m sure you can agree, specificity is important.
I guess I must be lost in semantics :)
Hi Eric. What do you use for an iPad mini mount?
What is the box located on the windshield?
That is a heated glass plate to melt ice so you can see when landing. This is a very common question I get.
@@AerostarPilot Ah! Thank you!
Wanted to ask, how are you getting gpws (altitude) callouts for landing. Is it a specific avionic that is giving that information to you? Also what is the brand/name of your terrain/weather radar?
Radar Altimeter tied into the Sandel TAWS
dead foot .. dead engine means ? rudder pedal you need to push to get centered is the right pedal correct ? seems one pedal will have stronger forces on it correct ?
and your keeping some force on the right pedal till normalized ?
@@craigbmm4675 you will have to keep pressure on the right rudder in the case where the left engine has failed along with some right aileron. Generally you will have the "ball" on the turn coordinator cut in half and 3-5° of bank into the good engine for optimal performance. The faster you go, the less of these corrective forces will be required. This is a great video taking about two VMC accidents and the theory behind VMC. ua-cam.com/video/Wbu6X0hSnBY/v-deo.html
@@AerostarPilot .. got it
ok watching the video again i understand " going to hook my left foot behind the pedal ." for added force to help push right pedal down . . got it now . and add the 3 degree aileron to the right
@@craigbmm4675 The foot hook is great when you doing training with OEI. If for real and you had to cruise for some time, trim and the autopilot work just fine.
Good day Sir. Thanks for your videos. How do you think is it realistic to operate this plane for a guy 6'1 260 lbs or it would be better to look for something else?
There are a couple of guys who are 6'8" flying the A* and I have a friend who is 6'5" and 250 who has flown with me without issue.
500fpm 6500lbs 5500’ that’s impressive
That's an understatement
It’s actually a climb rate of 230ft/min (using the altimeter and a stopwatch). Rate indicators are generally not accurate during these demos.
But the demo is at a high density altitude, so the rate would be a little better closer to MSL. (Handy having turbochargers for this demo.)
Why does VMC decrease when CG goes forward?
When the center of gravity (CG) of a twin-engine aircraft moves aft, the vertical stabilizer and rudder have a reduced moment arm. This results in less yaw control authority making it harder for the pilot to counteract any asymmetric thrust caused by one of the engines failing.
Vmc is the speed below which aircraft control cannot be maintained if the critical engine fails
under a specific set of circumstances. It is marked as a red radial line on most airspeed
indicators
Actually I dont know.
Do you have any advice to someone who wants to own an Aerostar, anything unique to ownership or your own experiences?
Hi Brendan - First, join the Aero Owers Association and read the forum. www.aerostar-owners.com/ This is the single best source for good information on owning and operating the aircraft.
Second- Check into insurance, Aerostars are specialty aircraft and very high performance, and require specialized training and a specialized broker. I suggest Lance VanWormer at CS&A. (615) 435-8295. Call and talk to him before you call any other broker. These aircraft are wonderful machines but do take some care and understanding of systems.
Once you start looking and think about a purchase, make sure you have an Aerostar shop do a pre-buy. Aerostar Aircraft in Coeur d Alene, ID who is the type certificate holder or JD Aviation at Capital City near Harrisburg, PA. Ken Bacon's organization in Tulsa, Master Aviation in Connecticut and Aerostar World in Alabama.
Third and probably the most important. If you were to buy something newer with this kind of performance you would be spending well over 1.5 million. There are Aerostar 700's out there for $150k and unfortunately at that price point there are pilots who buy them but don't have the resources to properly maintain them. To get a get a good 700hp Aerostar they will run closer to $400k so if you buy one at $150, you can expect to spend another $250k in updates and TLC to get it to the point where you want it.
I only used the 700hp version as an example, there are the normally aspirated versions for the flat landers who don't need to fly in the flight levels up to the 702P certified up to FL 300 but limited to FL280 due to RVSM rules.
Operating cost of a 700hp 702P in good condition will run a little less than $400 per flight hour, dry. This would be based on my experience with N11111. This includes insurance, annuals, hangar and all other general maintenance and reserves for time limited parts like the engines. Basically everything. I came up with this number based on actual costs divided by 150 hours per year flight time.
@@AerostarPilot Wow, this answers everything. Thank you so much and keep up the amazing content.
Is Aerostar capable to take-off and land on the grass strip?
Yes. The grass strip in the video you posted last month appears to be long enough. What is the length of that airstrip?
@@AerostarPilot There are two RWYs, one 770 meters and the other have 900 meters. The one on the video is longer one.
@@ludastorm 900 meters is about 2900 feet which would be a little short for my 700. I do go into 3000' paved strips that don't have obstacles close by. A lighter 600 would be fine. You would need to be on your game! The real issue will be balanced field length on the take off. Overall the Aerostar is capable for that length with practice.
🇧🇷
Hell Mr., I want to know, how about the price used Aerostar 600 or 700 on this time, please!
Does the aerostar have rudder trim? If yes, not enough to counter engine out?
Yes it does. The rudder trim is powerful enough to deal with an engine out. In fact the old King KFC 200 will fly an ILS with one engine just fine after you trim the rudder.
@@AerostarPilot thanks for the reply. When you were talking about hooking your foot under the left rudder for more leverage, i found myself wondering why you couldn't just trim it out. When i was a lineman back in the late 80s we had an aerostar at our field and it was hot sh*t back in the day. All the instructors wanted a turn in the right seat and sometimes got a chance from the pilot that flew it for the corporate owner. They all commented on having to work to stay ahead as things happened faster.
@@socomon69 It still is hot sh**t ! The only reason I mentioned the foot hook of the rudder pedal is during training. If you are only going to operating on one engine for a couple minutes it simplifies the process. For example when doing a simulated engine out shortly after takeoff where you are going to climb to pattern altitude, fly the pattern and land with a simulated engine out it makes it a lot easier since you would constantly have to re-trim for the speed and attitude changes. If for real and you had some distance to go, absolutely trim the pressures away.
@@AerostarPilot makes sense. Thx. The advent of the single turbine maybe stole a wee bit of the aerostar's luster, but i still wouldn't throw it out of bed for eating crackers. 😂
@@socomon69 I still feel more comfortable in a capable piston twin over mountains IFR at night than I would in a turbine. Probably more psychological than anything though.