Please put your requirements into the project lists (and check before, maybe they are already there): drive.google.com/drive/folders/1f19RF6AQi-4VBvSjyZpHFr3eIGdKw_Vn?usp=sharing Useful chips belong here: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EVSzTGi6zV_2XqgAnM31S37PE2n4OdgO?usp=sharing
It's not cheap, but I think most of what you want is on this board. "SparkFun Battery Babysitter - LiPo Battery Manager" ua-cam.com/video/u3KjOxiETWU/v-deo.html&feature=emb_logo
@@aGGreSSiv No 5v boost. Fine for some limited applications, but Rapberry Pi and other 5 volt dependent boards will be left out in the cold. Besides, that price without a 5 volt boost supply??? I know Sparkfun is a little pricey, but they need to get a clue.
@@chrisw1462 After my suggestion, I bought and tested the product myself. the product cannot cut the power at its outlet. Apart from the 5v problem, this seems to be a more serious problem.
Not only you did a great amount of reasearch and documented it. You also made a video and shared your findings with the rest of the world. Thank you very much!
@@AndreasSpiess Hi @Andreas Spiess, have you guys found out the perfect Power Board for all our needs? I see that you have created a Discord Channel. How can I join the Channel? Thank you
My plan is to create the drawings/documentation in a modular way that everybody can delete all parts of functions not needed and order its PCB. Like that we will have a common design but maybe many different implementations... This is why I proposed LCSC as a supplier.
SuperPower! What a great idea for a project! I have struggled with UPS requirements for both Raspberry Pi and ESPxx projects. As you point out, nothing on the market quite does the job. I hope this project takes off like a rocket!
Having searched similarly - I gave up because every battery module had a deal-breaker as you describe. Joined the github and look forward to seeing what you/we can make!
I love how Andreas, with his huge experience with enterprise IT vendors, subtly teaches a younger generation on how to manage collecting requirements and research available options.
I totally agree. Charging only to 4.05 or 4.1 V reduces capacity by 10-15% but extends battery life by 10 times! After half a year there is break even, where 100% of the 4.2V degraded battery is equal or lower then 80% of the 4.05V charge cutoff battery. I own a 9 year old lenovo thinkpad with 2h battery life - just by stopping charging at 80%
Super Power is an amazing concept! Any hopes of reviving it? I am new to ESP32 boards and have a lot of projects in mind that this would perfectly solve my solar/battery needs! 🤩🤩
The engineering-contradiction between "low quiescent current" vs. "a boost-converter for 5V (that needs a lot of quiescent current)" could be bypassed altogether by having a 2S configuration (with a balancer). Are there strong and grounded objections to having a 2S scheme?
This is why I emphasize on use cases. 5 volt is required for the Raspberry where quiescent current is not an issue. For the ESP modules it is very important, but they fortunatly run on 3.3 volts. So for the moment I hope we can avoid a 2s configuration because of the balancing needed. But maybe I am wrong...
@@AndreasSpiess 2 cell charging ICs exist. Take a look at the MCP73213 or BQ2057. I can't speak to the Ti IC, but the Microchip IC is something I've used in a project a few years go to charge a 2S LiPo pack for a RC car remote. I found a break out board somewhere online, and I think Mouser/Digikey has a Eval board for the 73213 as well.
@@shadow7037932 Staying with a buck topology should lower quiescent current significantly. Doubly so if we can exploit a low-power mode for the ESP32 that can enable high-current draw. Or duty-cycle the switching regulator to maintain 3V on the power line.
@@AndreasSpiess indeed, there are (at least) two scenarios: - the first, Raspberry or equivalent for which 5V is essential and for which the quiescent current is not fundamental - the second (which interests me) is the case of circuits with a 3.3V processor (or less) and sensors which require 5V (CO2, dust, etc.) and for which 5V can be gated, and for which the quiescent current should be low. Moreover, for these applications, the voltage of 3.3V would undoubtedly be more efficiently generated with an ultra low iq step down converter (TPS6280x, TPS627451 -for 2S-) rather than with an LDO.
Thanks for this - very informative and I'm excited about the SUperBoard.. I've been looking for a "good" power board as you describe for a couple of years. Can't wait to get a SuperPower board. It's crazy that a "good" board doesn't already exist
Hi Andreas, I love your videos! I was wondering whether the four cell variant, from this video, can be used as a UPS for a Raspberry Pi? In your Excel Sheet you remarked that it has a "short interruption if charge is disconnected", so I am wondering whether this short interruption is short enough for the batteries to kick in and start powering the RPi before it has a chance to shut down, as this is a key feature of UPS devices and regular power banks do not support that fast switching. This board is also pretty cheap and can hold 4 batteries which means that it should keep the RPi powed for some time if the power outage is bad. Could you test this and report back the results as I am wondering whether or not to buy it for my RPi. Thanks and all the best :)
i known this "specific underton" very well from my independent Alarm System "Wife"! And yes, then i have to do something, to avoid this messages! Mostly i have to do it immediately ("sofort")!
Andreas, there is more than the two of you, the WAF (wife approval factor) played an important role in the design and setup of my home automation system 😉
We will see how far we come this time. I decided to steer the project differently than last time when I tried to do it self-organized.... BTW: Your comment is now no more in the spam section. Very good!
I have a couple of suggestions. 1: I think the we don't appreciate lead acid battery enough. I know its bulky, and have low cycle life but I think it is still good for cheap power backup for stationary projects. They are simple, safe, 6v is good for a 5v and 3v3 rails and it is 100% recyclable as far as I know. For me they are locally produced and cheap (
You can try to find other project members for your idea. I am more than willing to add a new channel for this architecture. You decide if you cant it for the Raspberry or for the ESPs.
Love it! You are correct, there are many products out there that do not hit the mark, eg over voltage, under voltage, under temperature charge (for LiFePo4), voltage monitoring. Another use case is a solar powered ESP-32 that is physically small and designed for extremely low power idle, no USB interface.. with the ESP32 on board.
Brilliant Idea - to "crowd design" something that's useful to us all. Well done for the initiative. Unfortunately, I don't have the skills to contribute, but I look forward to acquiring the finished product for my modest projects.
For a Raspberry pi, it would be very cool to have a shutdown function that would completely power the pi off after shutdown. It would have to be triggered by a timer. When a shutdown signal comes from the supply you start the timer and do a shutdown on the pi. When supply voltage is stable again the supply powers on the pi .
Currently designing a gizmo that needs charging and 3v3 out; I've sort of settled on the TPS63031 buck/boost (LCSC part C15516) and BQ24073 charger/PMIC (C15220) but I'm always happy to find better ideas. No real monitoring capabilities though.
I added your chips to the lists. Maybe you check and correct (TI page is currently down) drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EVSzTGi6zV_2XqgAnM31S37PE2n4OdgO?usp=sharing
Great topic and initiative! I came to similar conclusions a few months ago when assembled my own Swiss Bank, a Raspiblitz, which is a R. Pi4 with a HDD, or SSD. I had data corruption problems and needed a UPS. A LOT of people are having this kind of problem. I noticed all UPSs use step-up converters. As HDD+PI 4 with high processing consume a lot. I created my own solution with available modules, choose to use 9V supply, 2 cells, step-down architecture to have smaller currents. I did a fast wiring sketch to share my idea: github.com/odudex/nodecase/blob/master/Hardware/node_schematic.pdf (The wiring scheme also contains a GPIO controlled fan for cooling) I don't monitor the voltage, but I monitor the power. I run a python daemon, and after some time with no power the Pi will safely shutdown. Is is running very well for a few months. I'm an electronics engineer, and can help with an opensource board design. I'm an Altium user, but could use another design tool.
Very good. For the moment I assume we will use EasyEDA because of the tight integration to the LCSC library and the easy (non) installation. But I am sure any CAD will be a small learning needed for you ;-)
Hi, I appreciate all your videos, I am trying to power an ESPcam with an USB solar panel and a dual 18650 battery but thue battery board stop working as soon as I connect the solar panel, it's OK when I connect the battery board to an AC adapter. What am I doing wrong ? (I am using a dual cell battery charge board with 2 switches). Thanks Thierry
Unfortunately, I cannot do remote debugging. I would do my measurements to find out what happens. Maybe you check out each component first and when everything is correct, start to connect them one after the other and test again. Then you will find the issue.
I had similar problems when searching for ideal solution to power my ESP32 with battery/solar combo. In the end I finally found nice step-up/down module Pololu S7V8F3 that is working great (plus INA219 to measure battery voltage and charge/discharge current). Unfortunately this module is expensive (at least in my region).
@@AndreasSpiess BTW some of voltage converters (up or up/down) I tested behave strange when battery was LOW (below certain point but higher then discharge protection), for example when sun start to charge batteries converters stayed in "off" (or similar) state and only disconnecting them completely and connecting them again fixed that (but I did not dig into it so maybe it was my fault ?). But important to test this behavior when creating ultimate "UPS" :)
I also use a timeout on data packets from my sendors,. But I also monitor change for timeout. If sensor have sent the same water count for 8 hours, i.e. no water usage in 8 hours, I know the sensor is not working properly. Similarly, I get an alert, if the cat hasn't passed the RFID-controlled cat-door in 12 hours. Then door or cat is malfunctioning.
@@AndreasSpiess Thank you very much for all your excellent tutorials on Lora & Tiny GS Radio, it's inspiring work. The 21st century is a wonderful time to be an Electronics hobbyist !
I am a mechanical engineer and will enjoy vicariously learning the design process for electronic devices. Thank you for making this an open project and I'm happy that I am in at the beginning to watch all of the phases.
Also may be make a sence to investigate why different TTGO ESP modules has already own battery supply/charging scheme, bu discharging current is too high and battery 1000 mAh lives only 1 week (e.g. M5STACK, TTGO T4, etc)?
I have some good ones form Samsung and also from Liitokala (or similar). Always test them when they arrive and file a dispute if they are not according the specs.
I have a cheap esp32 board with lipo 18650 battery on the back, and while it does work i dont like that i can not check the battery voltage in the esp. Maybe i could use a voltage divider or so, dont know...
If I said a Raspberry needs 3.3 volts it was wrong. It only runs internally on 3.3 volts but has the needed regulators on board. ESP32 and other microcontrollers work with 3.3 volts
Love the idea of superpower. Did it get it's cape trapped in something and die, just as Edna Mode might have predicted? (search " edna mode cape speech ", from incredibles)
Another 'Cruise Missile' of a project homing in on a much needed and beautifully researched and defined application. Glad that it's not just me that discovers the backwaters of Chinese only data sheets. It will be very interesting to see how high this flies. (Give Andreas his due - he even manages to slip in another reference to a non-existent individual).
Hello! Please do not use an over discharge protection value of 2.5V! Li-Ion-Cells will slightly be damaged below 3.0V each time you discharge them. Good protection circuits stop at 3.0V, 3.2V or higher. I use 3.3V, because this value allows a protection of lipo-cells too! You hardly find devices with such specs on AliExpress or Banggood. I bought several pieces. Many Sellers write wrong cutoff values in their product descriptions. Always check the comments of the users! Although there are devices that really stop at 3V (Pimoronis Lipo SHIM ->warning at 3.4V and cutoff at 3.0V) I build a circuit on my own, using a max8212 ic. This way i was able to decide the cutoff value on my own (it depends on the resistors...). Using such devices expand the lifetime of your cells! Here you can read something about protection circuits: learn.adafruit.com/li-ion-and-lipoly-batteries/protection-circuitry Here you can find a nice diagram and further explanations (@3V li-ion-cells are „empty“): learn.adafruit.com/li-ion-and-lipoly-batteries/voltages Bitte nutzen Sie kein Werte unter 3 Volt. Ihre Zellen nehmen mit jedem Zyklus etwas Schaden. LiPo Akkus dürfen sogar nicht unter 3,3V entladen werden. Sie werden bei den verschiedenen Anbietern aus China (immer die Rückmeldung der Käufer lesen!!!) Angebote finden die bei 3V zuverlässig abschalten. Ich selbst habe mir verschiedene Teile dort gekauft und getestet. Ich löte mir mittlerweile meine Cutoff-Schaltungen (auf der Basis eines Max8212) selbst. Diesen IC bekommt man übrigens auch aus China (für kleines Geld). Ich wünsche Ihnen viel Erfolg für Ihr SuperPower-Projekt! Bitte sorgen Sie dafür, dass eine Lösung gefunden wird, welche eine Entladung unterhalb von 3V verhindert! „GreatScott“ stieß den Bau einer Lösung an (die man auch kaufen/selber nachbauen kann) mit einem Cutoff-Wert von 2,5V. In meinen Augen ist sein Projekt damit für die meisten Nutzer mindestens nicht zu empfehlen! Bei meiner (langen) Suche nach einer geeigneten Lösung stieß ich in zahllosen Foren auf Leute, die Protection-Circuits suchen, welche bei 3,3V abschalten! Ein solches Produkt würde einen reißenden Absatz finden. Leider findet sich auf dem Markt zur Zeit KEIN solches derartiges Gerät. Vielen Dank Herr Spiess für Ihren Channel!
We will see if we find a solution in the Superpower project.. In the meantime I usually measure the voltage and transfer it to my server. Like that I can charge the battery before it is empty.
HEY MY FRIEND! As you know, I have watched/subscribed for years. I am RE-WATCHING this video. I need battery powered esp32 to report temperature and humidity. Key is showing on computer AND WRITE RESULTS TO FILE ON COMPUTER so I can print out results over a month or two monitoring. Raspberry pi 3b+ will be plugged in and running constantly at desk. I need to monitor qty 6 esp32 via WiFi to record data. I’m trying to SAVE an elderly lady home from black mold.
If you watched my videos you know the topics MQTT, InfluxDB, and Grafana including IOTstack. These are the technologies needed to build such a project.
A single 18650 battery with step up to 5v 4A for Pi4 for one minute backup or so is good enough for me to toggle gpio for safe shutdown. I want to keep it super simple, please advice which buck converter could boost 3Vish to 5v4Aish "solid output". Kind regards and cheers
@@AndreasSpiess Thank you so much for the feedback sir, yes I tried caps but it comes with its own challenges like very high charging surge currents, small caps are okay for pizero but for pi4 a mesh of circuits and relays would follow the caps compounding the circuit. So I think a small battery like 18650 or even its half version would do much better if somehow we can find a boost converter that can handle 3A for real and step-up from single battery. Even if that buck boost is costlier, it would be worth it to resolve this chronic issue. I looked everywhere but the buck boosters that i found cannot handle 3A (from a single battery 5v boosting)or so. If you come across one and let me know, I promise to look for the seat in the front row. :)
You may have a look at the project "Autonome Zelle" community.hiveeyes.org/t/versuchsaufbau-autonome-zelle-solar-feinstaub-wetter-vergleichsding/1373 Eigenüberwachung eines Solarsystems - Spannungen, mittels ADS1115 - Akku, - Solarpanel - 3.3V/I²C-Rail - 5V-Verbraucher-Rail - Akku-Heizung Stromstärke, mittels INA219 (noch nicht in aller Doku enthalten) - Akku (Lade- und Entladerichtung) Temperatur, mittels BME280 am Akku The interesting thing is the battery "heater" to use and charge LiFePo batterys in cold environments also, more important for Swiss people than here in Berlin but we should not be too sure to have no minus degrees in the future, so it's a good idea to implement this also at least as an option. ;-)
Interessantes Projekt. Speziell die Batterieheizung. Ich bin allerdings skeptisch ob das notwendig ist (bei unseren kleinen Ladeströmen) und insbesondere wie gross die Solarzelle sein muss um im Winter genügend Strom für die Heizung zu bringen. Vielleicht wäre ein schwarz gestrichenes Batteriefach neben den Zellen einfacher? Dann würden sich die Zellen bei Sonnenschein auch aufwärmen.
completely understand the problems facing with small battery systems. I had to build my own solar battery system for camping. Biggest problem is Li-Ion 3.7V cells. poor cycle life . systems ready for sale all use them. My needs are 12V 5V and USB C PD 65 watt . I went with LiFePO4 4 cell . my own BMS . Found MPPT solar on eBay for LFP 12.8V . put it all in noco battery box from walmart ! working great over 2 years now. LFP batteries have 2000 cycle life at 80% DOD. Is 200 watt solar/100 Ah batt. using car assery 12/24 to USB C PD 65 watt . with meter from eBay it's great ! so simple after bult my girlfriend is happy ! not a success until the outher half is happy ! great job !!
Hi, I bought 2pcs "52Pi Original 18650 UPS With RTC & Coulometer Pro Power Supply Device Extended Two USB Port for Raspberry Pi 4 B / 3B+/ 3B" as you have linked to in the description of the post. I have tried to use it now for the last couple of days. and some 18650 batteries who do not meet the standards regarding mah (it has a capacity of about 750mah) so I followed a link you have posted with another video, so I have to wait til it have arrived and see if it manage to keep the Pi running continuously on the UPS. but as of now this UPS do not manage to keep the Raspberry Pi running continually. I do not have any peripherals connected but keyboard and mouse. and I thought that a good power supply should have the unit running on mains(through the power-supply/transformer, not on the battery and when power outage it should switch to battery power and back to "mains" when the mains come back. so as to maximise the life of the battery?
I would check the battery voltage when the Pi runs on battery. Maybe the batteries also have a high internal resistance and do not deliver the needed voltage at higher currents. I agree that a UPS have to have the function you describe. I do no more remember the details of the video, but I remember that I was not happy with all the boards and started the "SuperPower" project.
what UPS would you recommend for the automatic proper shutdown when power is interrupted. except for supercapacitors UPS cuz, it is not available right now Int'l and here in the Philippines
The TP4056 is not a very good part. The specifications state the charge voltage to be +/- 1.5% of 4.20 volts. The 1.5% isn't very good, and the bigger problem is that it doesn't even meet that specification. I have designed that part into a UPS type power supply for the Raspberry Pi. We pretest every chip before putting them on our pick-n-place machine. We typically have to throw out 25-30% in our pretest. The CN3065 has a 1% specification for the charge voltage. The only thing that turned me off of it is the DFN-8 package. I hate DFN.
An ideal board cannot exist. Every project seems to have different power requirements. My current project is running from, and maintaining, a deep-cycle 24V AGM battery. The project before was an ATTiny with a CR2032 battery. It's always different. I'll be interested in whatever your team comes up with, but I'm doubtful you'll get far beyond the requirements phase.
We try to modularize the design that everybody can choose the functional blocks his project needs and create a PCB. This is why we try to work with JLCPCB. They assemble the whole thing.
I think a reason so many boards disable the output when charging is to qualify for an exemption to FCC compliance testing (15.103(h)). Kinda sucks if you were going to be charging it from solar, and would qualify for that exemption anyway, or don't live in the US.
@@AndreasSpiess ok, but have you got anyway the excel file of comparation of "already made" solutions ? Could you share it again ? Thanks a lot Andreas.
On the topic of 16340s .. has anyone found a reputable, reliable brand for cells of this size? My experience so far is that all 16340 cells test out, at best, to 1/3rd of their claimed mAh capacity when new, and most are much, much worse. This, from recognizeable brands and weird chinese brands alike. I haven't seen this kind of consistent fraud in any other cell size, though my experience is limited.
That's a good idea. My actual project is a arcade box with raspberry pi 3 and TFT display but mi battery source has two output with less amperes than I need. It has 5v 2A and 5v 1A2A, this is insufficient because I need at least 3.5A for my raspberry and 3A for my TFT. When you finish your project I will buy two of them.
are there any updates on this? I'm developing my own ESP32 wireless sentry things that I would like to be battery powered. I might go for 2 cells, 7.4v output and just an LDO in the meantime
I wonder which quiescent current you plan? With a single 3000mAh 18650 cell and a quiescent current of 50uA, it will have self discharged after 2500 days (nonstop connected 24 hours a day). Assuming the Microcontroller is running only a few seconds each day and the rest of the day it is in deep sleep mode, you can get battery runtimes of several years. So whats the issue with the quiescent current? Did I miss something? I support the other missing features (like voltage level detection, brown out protection etc) but I don't understand what shall be the issue with the quiescent current.
Just me thinking, but would the supercap-shutdown-circuit that Andreas showed in video #315 ( ua-cam.com/video/cKDv0aN67BY/v-deo.html ) also be considered valuable enough for other people to include it into "SuperPower"? I have tried to replicate the circuit and tested it a little, but am having trouble with booting after a simulated power loss. Basically as a novice I would greatly appreciate help in even making this simple circuit and maybe more people would like this circuit as an easily ordered board from JLCPCB for their headless Pi projects?
Excellent video and project, Mr Spiess. I'm currently working on a solar powered security camera, using a RPi 3A, a 60Ah LiFePO4 battery bank (4p2s flat packs reconfigured to ~8VDC from a power bank). 2 x 20W PV panels supply ~12-18 VDC to a buck converter to charge the bank @8 VDC. That is also a power bus to 5 VDC buck converters for the RPi 3A and ESP32 controlled tracking motors. In other words, my project requires all of your checkpoints. I'll be all over your site to follow up. Thank you for filling the need.🙏 BTW, I'd like one of those 'wife alarms'. Do they come with programmable volume or standby? Are they available on eBay?😎
I have one of those battery shields. When it's on, should the battery level LED's turn off? Mine shows the battery level the entire time the shield is on, just wasting power.
I read that there are many different versions around. So I do not know. I also do not remember how mine behaved. I anyway desolder the LEDs if I do not need them…
A friend and I, working on ESP8266 (and ESP32 a bit) were currently looking for a good way to power an efficient project (lots of deep sleep) for a very long time while remaining compact (probably using those flat LiPos rather than the cylindrical cells). I just received a few of these: hhtronik.com/product/pgcpsu-duo/ It includes a 5V step up then 3.3V step down, so probably not the most efficient for an ESP8266 only module, but maybe worth a look?
The simplest way to get 3.3 volts from a LiPo is to use a HT7333. You are probably right: To use a step-up and then a step-down does not seam to be very power efficient.
I think, for our "own supply" , that it would be good to use devices from European, Japanese, and USA suppliers, like TI, ADI, Rohm, etc...i have a LOT of experience with these, and find that these suppliers are reliable, and have readable data sheets, and often have evaluation boards to prototype with. It's always tempting to find low cost, but, "where the rubber meets the road", is it worth saving 1-2€, and losing all your data, or crashing some remotely controlled system? Just thinking ;-)
I also think that cost should not be the biggest focus. But we have to have somebody who is capable to supply us with ready-made boards. Most of these chips are too small for most viewers to solder themselves. This is why I chose JLCPCB and LCSC. They also ship globally. They also stock parts from the suppliers you mentioned, I think.
I think their reason for putting voltage and current sensor on 5V line instead of battery voltage was not to monitor battery level, but more like to report how much current and power connected device draws, for optimising power usage. And while they could use only current sensing for that they probably wanted it to be more precise. Some time ago I made something like that, I used tp4057, mt3608 and fs312f-g and 8205 for protection. Put everything on small pcb, set it at about 9v and put inside small cheap dso150. Works great. As i made a lot of pcb's due to small size of board (I got like 80 of them at jlcpcb at 5$ probably) I use them sometimes to power up other not very power hungry devices. And as it's common with all my designs, I managed to make a mistake when designing and mislabeled output pins.😅
I added you chips to the respective lists in the project. Maybe you check and enhance? ( drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EVSzTGi6zV_2XqgAnM31S37PE2n4OdgO?usp=sharing )?
This depeds on many things. you have to find out the power consumption of your board and compare it with the size of your battery. There are many videos on this channel about the "low power" topic as well as selection videos for the different boards
First a big thank you, I find your channel very helpful for a newcomer. I can't seem to find the specific excel sheet listed in the video. There are several spreadsheets available with the link but none seem to have the table with filters as shown in the video. What is the name of the file? I'm trying to power a zeroW with solar. - PS if I wanted to purchase a IP5306 in where would I go?
Question / Requirements: Why not use the battery till it dies? Maybe we could design the SuperPower with "optionals" not populated components to reduce cost and being able to use it widely.
Maybe a project variant. Without charging things get less complicated. You only need 4 AAA cells and an LDO to prevent voltages above 3.6 volts. and maybe a reporting function to report battery voltage.
The Raspberry Pi Foundation has brought the power of computing and digital engineering to people around the world. Commercial use was thus excluded. It is time for Andreas Spiess Fundation, who is not only a maker, but also a thought leader. 👍(ツ)❤️
Keep in mind temperatures. Remote devices often have to operate at "extreme" temperatures... Battery chemistry is quite sensitive with charge and discharge currents limited outside of "office temperatures". I suspect that exposed devices in Switzerland need to operate down to -20°C in an average year and colder should not be terminal for the device. Elsewhere, exposed to the sun or at least radiation from the sunlit surface around a solar panel, 55°C should not destroy the device. Inland temperatures in Australia's outback vary by over 40°C within a day during dry seasons. It gets close to freezing every night under clear skies and well over 40°C in the shade during the day. Surface temperature of the ground can be over 55°C. (If you need ground-level sensing in the sun, then you should consider burying the electronics 30cm is usually enough, leaving only the sensors and perhaps antenna exposed to the extremes.)
Thank you for starting this project about a month ago I went through a similar journey to keep a raspberry pi going during power failure and found a similar issues as you no board does exactly what we need it’s all compromises. If this works out we may have a great power board
I built a portable lithium-ion supply. There are a lot more buck converters than boost converters out there at least for the hobbyist so I ended up having to use 2 series batteries then used a buck converter. You could use an adjustable buck for 3.3 and 5.0 volts but thats kind of hackish.
Please put your requirements into the project lists (and check before, maybe they are already there): drive.google.com/drive/folders/1f19RF6AQi-4VBvSjyZpHFr3eIGdKw_Vn?usp=sharing
Useful chips belong here: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EVSzTGi6zV_2XqgAnM31S37PE2n4OdgO?usp=sharing
It's not cheap, but I think most of what you want is on this board. "SparkFun Battery Babysitter - LiPo Battery Manager" ua-cam.com/video/u3KjOxiETWU/v-deo.html&feature=emb_logo
@@aGGreSSiv No 5v boost. Fine for some limited applications, but Rapberry Pi and other 5 volt dependent boards will be left out in the cold. Besides, that price without a 5 volt boost supply??? I know Sparkfun is a little pricey, but they need to get a clue.
@@chrisw1462 After my suggestion, I bought and tested the product myself. the product cannot cut the power at its outlet. Apart from the 5v problem, this seems to be a more serious problem.
How is it going? RPi team post regularly but nothing seems happening with the EPS32.
lol love the part where you use your wife as an alarm clock... very funny :)
I just started consulting power management systems on a project, the timing for this is amazing! :)
Maybe you can contribute your knowledge to the project?
Not only you did a great amount of reasearch and documented it. You also made a video and shared your findings with the rest of the world.
Thank you very much!
You are welcome!
amazing. Somebody give this guy an award!
Thank you! Help would be more appreciated ;-)
@@AndreasSpiess Hi @Andreas Spiess, have you guys found out the perfect Power Board for all our needs? I see that you have created a Discord Channel. How can I join the Channel? Thank you
Awesome as always..
Thank you!
Great idea Mr Engineer 😀 would it be a good idea if we order the SuperPower in lots to negotiate a better price? Thank you
My plan is to create the drawings/documentation in a modular way that everybody can delete all parts of functions not needed and order its PCB. Like that we will have a common design but maybe many different implementations... This is why I proposed LCSC as a supplier.
all of those. when will it be done!
I do not understand :-(
@@AndreasSpiess I was saying when will the super power project be all done so we can buy it?
has anyone built a circuit that feeds electric back to the grid but will also cut off feeding back during a power outage?
I am loving this already, and we're just at the requirements. Nailed it! Maybe add a power monitor chip.
Head over to discord and convince the others with your use case...
Link to discord?
In the description
SuperPower! What a great idea for a project! I have struggled with UPS requirements for both Raspberry Pi and ESPxx projects. As you point out, nothing on the market quite does the job. I hope this project takes off like a rocket!
We already started, as you know...
Having searched similarly - I gave up because every battery module had a deal-breaker as you describe. Joined the github and look forward to seeing what you/we can make!
Welcome!
I love how Andreas, with his huge experience with enterprise IT vendors, subtly teaches a younger generation on how to manage collecting requirements and research available options.
Glad you share my opinion!
Excellent initiative, Swiss power for Super Power boards!
I hope for a global push ;-)
Amazing project, thank you for taking the initiative Andreas!
My pleasure!
Yesssss 😎 I would need and buy such a board. Greetings from Stockholm Sweden 🇸🇪 Thank you so much
Nothing to buy for the moment. Maybe some manufacturers watch the channel ;-)
Great video!
Would be very useful to be able to control the “final” battery voltage, keeping it below 4.2 volts can hugely extends battery life.
Good idea. Maybe you add your requirement to the project lists?
I totally agree. Charging only to 4.05 or 4.1 V reduces capacity by 10-15% but extends battery life by 10 times! After half a year there is break even, where 100% of the 4.2V degraded battery is equal or lower then 80% of the 4.05V charge cutoff battery. I own a 9 year old lenovo thinkpad with 2h battery life - just by stopping charging at 80%
Very good idea!
Would be great if i could gain acces to the Google drive. I need some safe 18650 UPS to work as backup power.
Super Power is an amazing concept! Any hopes of reviving it? I am new to ESP32 boards and have a lot of projects in mind that this would perfectly solve my solar/battery needs! 🤩🤩
So far, no update is planned.
Love it! Although I won't be of any help in this project. Except maybe as a testing mule and guinea pig, when I can't break it, nobody can :D
Very important function: Creative tester!
The engineering-contradiction between "low quiescent current" vs. "a boost-converter for 5V (that needs a lot of quiescent current)" could be bypassed altogether by having a 2S configuration (with a balancer). Are there strong and grounded objections to having a 2S scheme?
This is why I emphasize on use cases. 5 volt is required for the Raspberry where quiescent current is not an issue. For the ESP modules it is very important, but they fortunatly run on 3.3 volts.
So for the moment I hope we can avoid a 2s configuration because of the balancing needed. But maybe I am wrong...
@@AndreasSpiess 2 cell charging ICs exist. Take a look at the MCP73213 or BQ2057. I can't speak to the Ti IC, but the Microchip IC is something I've used in a project a few years go to charge a 2S LiPo pack for a RC car remote. I found a break out board somewhere online, and I think Mouser/Digikey has a Eval board for the 73213 as well.
@isogen: I added the MCP73213 to the list. The BQ2057 is a single cell charger (according its datasheet)
@@shadow7037932 Staying with a buck topology should lower quiescent current significantly. Doubly so if we can exploit a low-power mode for the ESP32 that can enable high-current draw. Or duty-cycle the switching regulator to maintain 3V on the power line.
@@AndreasSpiess
indeed, there are (at least) two scenarios:
- the first, Raspberry or equivalent for which 5V is essential and for which the quiescent current is not fundamental
- the second (which interests me) is the case of circuits with a 3.3V processor (or less) and sensors which require 5V (CO2, dust, etc.) and for which 5V can be gated, and for which the quiescent current should be low. Moreover, for these applications, the voltage of 3.3V would undoubtedly be more efficiently generated with an ultra low iq step down converter (TPS6280x, TPS627451 -for 2S-) rather than with an LDO.
Thanks for this - very informative and I'm excited about the SUperBoard.. I've been looking for a "good" power board as you describe for a couple of years. Can't wait to get a SuperPower board. It's crazy that a "good" board doesn't already exist
Maybe you check if your requirements are in the lists?
Can you do a video and give status of this project? Or perhaps evaluate any newer options you see in the market?
This project was stopped long time ago due to availability problems back then
This is two years old - has this nice project come to fruits, or are there in the meantime proper boards available on the market?
Unfortunately, we had to give ou because of the parts shortage :-(
Hi Andreas, I love your videos! I was wondering whether the four cell variant, from this video, can be used as a UPS for a Raspberry Pi? In your Excel Sheet you remarked that it has a "short interruption if charge is disconnected", so I am wondering whether this short interruption is short enough for the batteries to kick in and start powering the RPi before it has a chance to shut down, as this is a key feature of UPS devices and regular power banks do not support that fast switching. This board is also pretty cheap and can hold 4 batteries which means that it should keep the RPi powed for some time if the power outage is bad. Could you test this and report back the results as I am wondering whether or not to buy it for my RPi. Thanks and all the best :)
I will not use this board for the Pi because it does not have the features needed (shutdown, etc.). This is why I started the Superpower project.
i known this "specific underton" very well from my independent Alarm System "Wife"! And yes, then i have to do something, to avoid this messages! Mostly i have to do it immediately ("sofort")!
So we are already two ;-)
Andreas, there is more than the two of you, the WAF (wife approval factor) played an important role in the design and setup of my home automation system 😉
Fantastic. I’m pretty sure I will need that soon., for ESP32. Thanks Andreas.
This is how engineering is done in the 21th century.
We will see how far we come this time. I decided to steer the project differently than last time when I tried to do it self-organized....
BTW: Your comment is now no more in the spam section. Very good!
@@AndreasSpiess Haha thanks - finally I have upgraded to being a resonable and trustworthy netizen :)
Anyone tried the Waveshare Raspberry Pi UPS? (www.waveshare.com/ups-hat.htm) Thoughts?
I have a couple of suggestions.
1: I think the we don't appreciate lead acid battery enough. I know its bulky, and have low cycle life but I think it is still good for cheap power backup for stationary projects. They are simple, safe, 6v is good for a 5v and 3v3 rails and it is 100% recyclable as far as I know. For me they are locally produced and cheap (
You can try to find other project members for your idea. I am more than willing to add a new channel for this architecture. You decide if you cant it for the Raspberry or for the ESPs.
@@AndreasSpiess That would be helpful. I hope I can find more people interested in the idea. Keep up the good work sir.
Is Superpower now available?
Unfortunately, not. Because of Corona supply chain problems.
Remember lipo doesn't like 30C for charging and discharging, and violation of that temp may cause fires.
I am not too much concerned at the small currents we use in our projects.
Love it! You are correct, there are many products out there that do not hit the mark, eg over voltage, under voltage, under temperature charge (for LiFePo4), voltage monitoring. Another use case is a solar powered ESP-32 that is physically small and designed for extremely low power idle, no USB interface.. with the ESP32 on board.
We have now two main paths: For ESPs (or other 3.3V MCUs) and for Raspberries
Another feature: Balancer if more than one cell is used
True. I hope we can avoid dual cell because we need a maximum of 5 volts.
@@AndreasSpiess In another comment someone pointed out that you can avoid the standby current of the step up converter for 5V by using 2 cells.
Depends on how many mAH you need. More batteries in parallel = longer lifetime, and may be worth it. This depends on your use cases.
@@tonylhansen I thought about cells in series for a higher voltage. When in parallel we wouldn't need a Balancer.
Forget the power board. How did you get your wife to stop yelling alarms at you?! This is the information we need!
:-))
Brilliant Idea - to "crowd design" something that's useful to us all. Well done for the initiative. Unfortunately, I don't have the skills to contribute, but I look forward to acquiring the finished product for my modest projects.
We will see where it leads... Maybe a supplier picks up the ideas...
For a Raspberry pi, it would be very cool to have a shutdown function that would completely power the pi off after shutdown. It would have to be triggered by a timer. When a shutdown signal comes from the supply you start the timer and do a shutdown on the pi. When supply voltage is stable again the supply powers on the pi .
We already started to collect the requirements: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oGSQRG4XssmFL4II1EF2akhWRhvSvHqH1uTaYX9znlw/edit?usp=sharing
Currently designing a gizmo that needs charging and 3v3 out; I've sort of settled on the TPS63031 buck/boost (LCSC part C15516) and BQ24073 charger/PMIC (C15220) but I'm always happy to find better ideas. No real monitoring capabilities though.
I added your chips to the lists. Maybe you check and correct (TI page is currently down) drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EVSzTGi6zV_2XqgAnM31S37PE2n4OdgO?usp=sharing
Great topic and initiative! I came to similar conclusions a few months ago when assembled my own Swiss Bank, a Raspiblitz, which is a R. Pi4 with a HDD, or SSD. I had data corruption problems and needed a UPS. A LOT of people are having this kind of problem. I noticed all UPSs use step-up converters. As HDD+PI 4 with high processing consume a lot. I created my own solution with available modules, choose to use 9V supply, 2 cells, step-down architecture to have smaller currents.
I did a fast wiring sketch to share my idea:
github.com/odudex/nodecase/blob/master/Hardware/node_schematic.pdf
(The wiring scheme also contains a GPIO controlled fan for cooling)
I don't monitor the voltage, but I monitor the power. I run a python daemon, and after some time with no power the Pi will safely shutdown.
Is is running very well for a few months.
I'm an electronics engineer, and can help with an opensource board design. I'm an Altium user, but could use another design tool.
Very good. For the moment I assume we will use EasyEDA because of the tight integration to the LCSC library and the easy (non) installation. But I am sure any CAD will be a small learning needed for you ;-)
Hi, I appreciate all your videos, I am trying to power an ESPcam with an USB solar panel and a dual 18650 battery but thue battery board stop working as soon as I connect the solar panel, it's OK when I connect the battery board to an AC adapter. What am I doing wrong ? (I am using a dual cell battery charge board with 2 switches). Thanks Thierry
Unfortunately, I cannot do remote debugging. I would do my measurements to find out what happens. Maybe you check out each component first and when everything is correct, start to connect them one after the other and test again. Then you will find the issue.
This is a nice project, there's a lack of good battery management circuits for DIY projects
Glad you like it!
Thanks again Andreas! I have referred back to this video a number of times and get value from it every time.
Glad the video is still helpful!
I had similar problems when searching for ideal solution to power my ESP32 with battery/solar combo. In the end I finally found nice step-up/down module Pololu S7V8F3 that is working great (plus INA219 to measure battery voltage and charge/discharge current). Unfortunately this module is expensive (at least in my region).
Thank you for the link. I added the tps63060 to the 3.3 volt regulators
@@AndreasSpiess BTW some of voltage converters (up or up/down) I tested behave strange when battery was LOW (below certain point but higher then discharge protection), for example when sun start to charge batteries converters stayed in "off" (or similar) state and only disconnecting them completely and connecting them again fixed that (but I did not dig into it so maybe it was my fault ?). But important to test this behavior when creating ultimate "UPS" :)
I also use a timeout on data packets from my sendors,.
But I also monitor change for timeout. If sensor have sent the same water count for 8 hours, i.e. no water usage in 8 hours, I know the sensor is not working properly.
Similarly, I get an alert, if the cat hasn't passed the RFID-controlled cat-door in 12 hours. Then door or cat is malfunctioning.
No watchdog for the cat that reboots it automatically?
@Leif: A good additional functionality on a different layer!
I love 18650's ! I'm still breaking up & using recycled laptop battery packs from 2006 ! lol
This is a very good thing in many respects. It seems that most of the batteries still have a lot of life time.
@@AndreasSpiess Thank you very much for all your excellent tutorials on Lora & Tiny GS Radio, it's inspiring work.
The 21st century is a wonderful time to be an Electronics hobbyist !
I am a mechanical engineer and will enjoy vicariously learning the design process for electronic devices. Thank you for making this an open project and I'm happy that I am in at the beginning to watch all of the phases.
So I hope you can contribute an learn in the project.
Also your listed 2cell 18650 battery module from AliExpress, will I need anything else to regulate power to esp32?
You have to check the voltages. ESP32 dev boards usually are powered by 5v and the ESP barebone modules by 3.3 volts
Also may be make a sence to investigate why different TTGO ESP modules has already own battery supply/charging scheme, bu discharging current is too high and battery 1000 mAh lives only 1 week (e.g. M5STACK, TTGO T4, etc)?
I plan a new overview on ESP32 boards. Then we will see...
Very good project idea. Could be a good alternative to commercial boards where there's always just one thing missing to be perfect !
In addition I hope we will get a modular design where you can delete what you do not need before you order the PCB
What do you think of those 18650 batteries you have in this video? I seen them in Alibaba but I'm not sure how good they are. What do you think?
I have some good ones form Samsung and also from Liitokala (or similar). Always test them when they arrive and file a dispute if they are not according the specs.
@@AndreasSpiess Thank you.
I have a cheap esp32 board with lipo 18650 battery on the back, and while it does work i dont like that i can not check the battery voltage in the esp. Maybe i could use a voltage divider or so, dont know...
You can use a voltage divider if you want.
"you can replace a defective battery without problems" well, i mean, as long as it doesn't explode while you do it
True!
It’s not clear to me why you need 3.3V for a raspberry pi. You didn’t really explain why that’s needed or desired.
If I said a Raspberry needs 3.3 volts it was wrong. It only runs internally on 3.3 volts but has the needed regulators on board.
ESP32 and other microcontrollers work with 3.3 volts
how to connect the single battery as UPS on raspberry Pi and not using the micro USB for main power supply
The expansion connector has 5 volt pins where you can connect power.
Awesome video and what a fantastic idea/project. Just what I and so many others need. Excellent, you deserve a medal for this !
I hope we will get enough working project members...
@@AndreasSpiess I think there will be many. At least to start... to persist is a little bit different. I'm a little bit in the hesitation fase...
Love the idea of superpower. Did it get it's cape trapped in something and die, just as Edna Mode might have predicted? (search " edna mode cape speech ", from incredibles)
Another 'Cruise Missile' of a project homing in on a much needed and beautifully researched and defined application. Glad that it's not just me that discovers the backwaters of Chinese only data sheets. It will be very interesting to see how high this flies. (Give Andreas his due - he even manages to slip in another reference to a non-existent individual).
I thought you get the prove of her existence this summer. Unfortunately we had to stay in Switzerland 🇨🇭
@@AndreasSpiess Let's hope that it won't be too long. Very best wishes :)
I'm looking forward to seeing the completed product!
There will probably not be a product. Just drawings to order for everybody.
Why not create a device of your own and have it mass produced as I am sure there are plenty of people who would purchase it?
I quit selling HW in the 1990 and never looked back ;-)
Thank you, a great project. I have never found the perfect power supply either. I am very excited about the team results.
You are welcome! Maybe you join Discord to participate?
Please, please please use KiCad for the pcb design. It's free so anyone can use it.
This is currently the plan
what is that node editing workflow software you’re using
Davinci Resolve
8:33 I'm sure this uses a 3V input to work with 2 AA Alkaline batteries
I do not think so. This is an output pin.
Wow great info - lots of these boards are useless!
At least for me.
Hello!
Please do not use an over discharge protection value of 2.5V!
Li-Ion-Cells will slightly be damaged below 3.0V each time you discharge them.
Good protection circuits stop at 3.0V, 3.2V or higher.
I use 3.3V, because this value allows a protection of lipo-cells too!
You hardly find devices with such specs on AliExpress or Banggood. I bought several pieces. Many Sellers write wrong cutoff values in their product descriptions. Always check the comments of the users! Although there are devices that really stop at 3V (Pimoronis Lipo SHIM ->warning at 3.4V and cutoff at 3.0V)
I build a circuit on my own, using a max8212 ic.
This way i was able to decide the cutoff value on my own (it depends on the resistors...).
Using such devices expand the lifetime of your cells!
Here you can read something about protection circuits:
learn.adafruit.com/li-ion-and-lipoly-batteries/protection-circuitry
Here you can find a nice diagram and further explanations (@3V li-ion-cells are „empty“):
learn.adafruit.com/li-ion-and-lipoly-batteries/voltages
Bitte nutzen Sie kein Werte unter 3 Volt. Ihre Zellen nehmen mit jedem Zyklus etwas Schaden. LiPo Akkus dürfen sogar nicht unter 3,3V entladen werden. Sie werden bei den verschiedenen Anbietern aus China (immer die Rückmeldung der Käufer lesen!!!) Angebote finden die bei 3V zuverlässig abschalten. Ich selbst habe mir verschiedene Teile dort gekauft und getestet.
Ich löte mir mittlerweile meine Cutoff-Schaltungen (auf der Basis eines Max8212) selbst. Diesen IC bekommt man übrigens auch aus China (für kleines Geld).
Ich wünsche Ihnen viel Erfolg für Ihr SuperPower-Projekt!
Bitte sorgen Sie dafür, dass eine Lösung gefunden wird, welche eine Entladung unterhalb von 3V verhindert!
„GreatScott“ stieß den Bau einer Lösung an (die man auch kaufen/selber nachbauen kann) mit einem Cutoff-Wert von 2,5V. In meinen Augen ist sein Projekt damit für die meisten Nutzer mindestens nicht zu empfehlen!
Bei meiner (langen) Suche nach einer geeigneten Lösung stieß ich in zahllosen Foren auf Leute, die Protection-Circuits suchen, welche bei 3,3V abschalten! Ein solches Produkt würde einen reißenden Absatz finden. Leider findet sich auf dem Markt zur Zeit KEIN solches derartiges Gerät.
Vielen Dank Herr Spiess für Ihren Channel!
We will see if we find a solution in the Superpower project.. In the meantime I usually measure the voltage and transfer it to my server. Like that I can charge the battery before it is empty.
Take a look on this board - github.com/rcdrones/UPSPACK_V2/blob/master/README_en.md
Thank you for the link. I hope the project was aware of this board.
I love where this is going. I have a few of the single and double 18650 battery boards and think they need to be better designed like you say.
We will see what we can get out of the project...
@@AndreasSpiess looking forward to it very much. Will you do a follow up video?
Not decided yet
HEY MY FRIEND! As you know, I have watched/subscribed for years. I am RE-WATCHING this video. I need battery powered esp32 to report temperature and humidity. Key is showing on computer AND WRITE RESULTS TO FILE ON COMPUTER so I can print out results over a month or two monitoring.
Raspberry pi 3b+ will be plugged in and running constantly at desk. I need to monitor qty 6 esp32 via WiFi to record data.
I’m trying to SAVE an elderly lady home from black mold.
If you watched my videos you know the topics MQTT, InfluxDB, and Grafana including IOTstack. These are the technologies needed to build such a project.
A single 18650 battery with step up to 5v 4A for Pi4 for one minute backup or so is good enough for me to toggle gpio for safe shutdown. I want to keep it super simple, please advice which buck converter could boost 3Vish to 5v4Aish "solid output". Kind regards and cheers
I once made a video using super capacitors for that purpose...
@@AndreasSpiess Thank you so much for the feedback sir, yes I tried caps but it comes with its own challenges like very high charging surge currents, small caps are okay for pizero but for pi4 a mesh of circuits and relays would follow the caps compounding the circuit. So I think a small battery like 18650 or even its half version would do much better if somehow we can find a boost converter that can handle 3A for real and step-up from single battery. Even if that buck boost is costlier, it would be worth it to resolve this chronic issue. I looked everywhere but the buck boosters that i found cannot handle 3A (from a single battery 5v boosting)or so. If you come across one and let me know, I promise to look for the seat in the front row. :)
You may have a look at the project "Autonome Zelle" community.hiveeyes.org/t/versuchsaufbau-autonome-zelle-solar-feinstaub-wetter-vergleichsding/1373
Eigenüberwachung eines Solarsystems
- Spannungen, mittels ADS1115
- Akku,
- Solarpanel
- 3.3V/I²C-Rail
- 5V-Verbraucher-Rail
- Akku-Heizung
Stromstärke, mittels INA219 (noch nicht in aller Doku enthalten)
- Akku (Lade- und Entladerichtung)
Temperatur, mittels BME280 am Akku
The interesting thing is the battery "heater" to use and charge LiFePo batterys in cold environments also, more important for Swiss people than here in Berlin but we should not be too sure to have no minus degrees in the future, so it's a good idea to implement this also at least as an option. ;-)
Interessantes Projekt. Speziell die Batterieheizung. Ich bin allerdings skeptisch ob das notwendig ist (bei unseren kleinen Ladeströmen) und insbesondere wie gross die Solarzelle sein muss um im Winter genügend Strom für die Heizung zu bringen. Vielleicht wäre ein schwarz gestrichenes Batteriefach neben den Zellen einfacher? Dann würden sich die Zellen bei Sonnenschein auch aufwärmen.
what do you say if it better to use wife as battery ? i saw you do not recommend use she as an alarm...
That would be good for her fitness. I have to ask her ;-)
completely understand the problems facing with small battery systems. I had to build my own solar battery system for camping. Biggest problem is Li-Ion 3.7V cells. poor cycle life . systems ready for sale all use them. My needs are 12V 5V and USB C PD 65 watt . I went with LiFePO4 4 cell . my own BMS . Found MPPT solar on eBay for LFP 12.8V . put it all in noco battery box from walmart ! working great over 2 years now. LFP batteries have 2000 cycle life at 80% DOD. Is 200 watt solar/100 Ah batt. using car assery 12/24 to USB C PD 65 watt . with meter from eBay it's great ! so simple after bult my girlfriend is happy ! not a success until the outher half is happy ! great job !!
You are right, LiFePo are a good choice. Especially for higher power applications
Hi, I bought 2pcs "52Pi Original 18650 UPS With RTC & Coulometer Pro Power Supply Device Extended Two USB Port for Raspberry Pi 4 B / 3B+/ 3B" as you have linked to in the description of the post. I have tried to use it now for the last couple of days. and some 18650 batteries who do not meet the standards regarding mah (it has a capacity of about 750mah) so I followed a link you have posted with another video, so I have to wait til it have arrived and see if it manage to keep the Pi running continuously on the UPS. but as of now this UPS do not manage to keep the Raspberry Pi running continually. I do not have any peripherals connected but keyboard and mouse. and I thought that a good power supply should have the unit running on mains(through the power-supply/transformer, not on the battery and when power outage it should switch to battery power and back to "mains" when the mains come back. so as to maximise the life of the battery?
I would check the battery voltage when the Pi runs on battery. Maybe the batteries also have a high internal resistance and do not deliver the needed voltage at higher currents.
I agree that a UPS have to have the function you describe. I do no more remember the details of the video, but I remember that I was not happy with all the boards and started the "SuperPower" project.
Mister @UCu7_D0o48KbfhpEohoP7YSQ, would a non-paytron be allowed to purchase one of your 4 cell Super boards when completed?
??
what UPS would you recommend for the automatic proper shutdown when power is interrupted. except for supercapacitors UPS cuz, it is not available right now Int'l and here in the Philippines
So far I did not find a good UPS for the Pii.
@@AndreasSpiess thanks. Anyways, I found another way for my technical design
The TP4056 is not a very good part. The specifications state the charge voltage to be +/- 1.5% of 4.20 volts. The 1.5% isn't very good, and the bigger problem is that it doesn't even meet that specification. I have designed that part into a UPS type power supply for the Raspberry Pi. We pretest every chip before putting them on our pick-n-place machine. We typically have to throw out 25-30% in our pretest.
The CN3065 has a 1% specification for the charge voltage. The only thing that turned me off of it is the DFN-8 package. I hate DFN.
Good to know. But most of the commercial boards use this chip.
An ideal board cannot exist. Every project seems to have different power requirements. My current project is running from, and maintaining, a deep-cycle 24V AGM battery. The project before was an ATTiny with a CR2032 battery. It's always different. I'll be interested in whatever your team comes up with, but I'm doubtful you'll get far beyond the requirements phase.
We try to modularize the design that everybody can choose the functional blocks his project needs and create a PCB. This is why we try to work with JLCPCB. They assemble the whole thing.
Great video! Thanks very much!
You are welcome!
I think a reason so many boards disable the output when charging is to qualify for an exemption to FCC compliance testing (15.103(h)). Kinda sucks if you were going to be charging it from solar, and would qualify for that exemption anyway, or don't live in the US.
I did not know the reason, just the fact. Thanks for the info.
I personally use MCP73811 charge controller with TC1262 VLDO with 4 caps and 1 resistor for all my esp projects.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
I am not familiar with board making at all. Can the JLCPCB print boards with parts from LCSC soldered on it already???
Yes, they offer this service for particular components
@@AndreasSpiess Good to know. Thank you!
Sorry, where is the link to the comparative table? Thanks.
In the meantime, the Superpower project had a homepage (link in the description). But it died because of the parts shortage during Corona.
@@AndreasSpiess ok, but have you got anyway the excel file of comparation of "already made" solutions ? Could you share it again ? Thanks a lot Andreas.
On the topic of 16340s .. has anyone found a reputable, reliable brand for cells of this size? My experience so far is that all 16340 cells test out, at best, to 1/3rd of their claimed mAh capacity when new, and most are much, much worse. This, from recognizeable brands and weird chinese brands alike. I haven't seen this kind of consistent fraud in any other cell size, though my experience is limited.
I can confirm your observation. I tested mine with a similar result.
That's a good idea. My actual project is a arcade box with raspberry pi 3 and TFT display but mi battery source has two output with less amperes than I need. It has 5v 2A and 5v 1A2A, this is insufficient because I need at least 3.5A for my raspberry and 3A for my TFT. When you finish your project I will buy two of them.
There is nothing to buy at the end of this project. Just plans to build your own...
are there any updates on this?
I'm developing my own ESP32 wireless sentry things that I would like to be battery powered.
I might go for 2 cells, 7.4v output and just an LDO in the meantime
The boards are in the Making. So we will see when we get an update.
I wonder which quiescent current you plan? With a single 3000mAh 18650 cell and a quiescent current of 50uA, it will have self discharged after 2500 days (nonstop connected 24 hours a day). Assuming the Microcontroller is running only a few seconds each day and the rest of the day it is in deep sleep mode, you can get battery runtimes of several years. So whats the issue with the quiescent current? Did I miss something?
I support the other missing features (like voltage level detection, brown out protection etc) but I don't understand what shall be the issue with the quiescent current.
We will see where we end with the quiescent current. Unfortunately it adds up (ESP module, sensors, etc)...
Very early in the video I thought “Andreas needs to kick of a board design”. This is awesome, bit thumbs up on kicking this “SuperPower” project off.
Glad you like it!
Just me thinking, but would the supercap-shutdown-circuit that Andreas showed in video #315 ( ua-cam.com/video/cKDv0aN67BY/v-deo.html ) also be considered valuable enough for other people to include it into "SuperPower"? I have tried to replicate the circuit and tested it a little, but am having trouble with booting after a simulated power loss. Basically as a novice I would greatly appreciate help in even making this simple circuit and maybe more people would like this circuit as an easily ordered board from JLCPCB for their headless Pi projects?
Maybe you join the project and add your requirement? ( docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oGSQRG4XssmFL4II1EF2akhWRhvSvHqH1uTaYX9znlw/edit?usp=sharing )
Excellent video and project, Mr Spiess. I'm currently working on a solar powered security camera, using a RPi 3A, a 60Ah LiFePO4 battery bank (4p2s flat packs reconfigured to ~8VDC from a power bank). 2 x 20W PV panels supply ~12-18 VDC to a buck converter to charge the bank @8 VDC. That is also a power bus to 5 VDC buck converters for the RPi 3A and ESP32 controlled tracking motors. In other words, my project requires all of your checkpoints. I'll be all over your site to follow up. Thank you for filling the need.🙏
BTW, I'd like one of those 'wife alarms'. Do they come with programmable volume or standby? Are they available on eBay?😎
They are not at all programmable. And even less can be muted. Maybe because of those features I love her ;-)
I have one of those battery shields. When it's on, should the battery level LED's turn off? Mine shows the battery level the entire time the shield is on, just wasting power.
I read that there are many different versions around. So I do not know. I also do not remember how mine behaved. I anyway desolder the LEDs if I do not need them…
@@AndreasSpiess cool, well thank you for the quick response!
A friend and I, working on ESP8266 (and ESP32 a bit) were currently looking for a good way to power an efficient project (lots of deep sleep) for a very long time while remaining compact (probably using those flat LiPos rather than the cylindrical cells).
I just received a few of these: hhtronik.com/product/pgcpsu-duo/
It includes a 5V step up then 3.3V step down, so probably not the most efficient for an ESP8266 only module, but maybe worth a look?
The simplest way to get 3.3 volts from a LiPo is to use a HT7333. You are probably right: To use a step-up and then a step-down does not seam to be very power efficient.
I think, for our "own supply" , that it would be good to use devices from European, Japanese, and USA suppliers, like TI, ADI, Rohm, etc...i have a LOT of experience with these, and find that these suppliers are reliable, and have readable data sheets, and often have evaluation boards to prototype with.
It's always tempting to find low cost, but, "where the rubber meets the road", is it worth saving 1-2€, and losing all your data, or crashing some remotely controlled system?
Just thinking ;-)
I also think that cost should not be the biggest focus. But we have to have somebody who is capable to supply us with ready-made boards. Most of these chips are too small for most viewers to solder themselves. This is why I chose JLCPCB and LCSC. They also ship globally. They also stock parts from the suppliers you mentioned, I think.
I think their reason for putting voltage and current sensor on 5V line instead of battery voltage was not to monitor battery level, but more like to report how much current and power connected device draws, for optimising power usage. And while they could use only current sensing for that they probably wanted it to be more precise.
Some time ago I made something like that, I used tp4057, mt3608 and fs312f-g and 8205 for protection. Put everything on small pcb, set it at about 9v and put inside small cheap dso150. Works great. As i made a lot of pcb's due to small size of board (I got like 80 of them at jlcpcb at 5$ probably) I use them sometimes to power up other not very power hungry devices. And as it's common with all my designs, I managed to make a mistake when designing and mislabeled output pins.😅
I added you chips to the respective lists in the project. Maybe you check and enhance? ( drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EVSzTGi6zV_2XqgAnM31S37PE2n4OdgO?usp=sharing )?
Just wondering if it is possible to convert the 4 cell 18650 battery board to 12v 2a output?
I do not know. I never needed it :-(
Can you give estimate of how long esp32 will report on temperature and moisture 3 times a day off qty 2 18650 batteries?
This depeds on many things. you have to find out the power consumption of your board and compare it with the size of your battery. There are many videos on this channel about the "low power" topic as well as selection videos for the different boards
First a big thank you, I find your channel very helpful for a newcomer. I can't seem to find the specific excel sheet listed in the video. There are several spreadsheets available with the link but none seem to have the table with filters as shown in the video. What is the name of the file? I'm trying to power a zeroW with solar. - PS if I wanted to purchase a IP5306 in where would I go?
I updated the link in the video description. Maybe you have a look now.
Since the video has posted, has anyone found a good solar power supply for Raspberry Pis?
Not me...
@@AndreasSpiess thank you for your insight (...and the great video)
Just doing a UPS for my RPIs and router with 18650!
I agree. So 5V but also 7,5-9-12V.
@@DumahBrazorf i used 4 batteries with a bms and 16.8v power adapter, and of course a dc-dc 5v3a small module
Maybe you input your learnings into the project?
Question / Requirements: Why not use the battery till it dies? Maybe we could design the SuperPower with "optionals" not populated components to reduce cost and being able to use it widely.
Maybe a project variant. Without charging things get less complicated. You only need 4 AAA cells and an LDO to prevent voltages above 3.6 volts. and maybe a reporting function to report battery voltage.
The Raspberry Pi Foundation has brought the power of computing and digital engineering to people around the world. Commercial use was thus excluded. It is time for Andreas Spiess Fundation, who is not only a maker, but also a thought leader. 👍(ツ)❤️
Thank you for this flattering idea. For the moment we try to get something useful out of this project. We still can continue...
Keep in mind temperatures. Remote devices often have to operate at "extreme" temperatures... Battery chemistry is quite sensitive with charge and discharge currents limited outside of "office temperatures". I suspect that exposed devices in Switzerland need to operate down to -20°C in an average year and colder should not be terminal for the device. Elsewhere, exposed to the sun or at least radiation from the sunlit surface around a solar panel, 55°C should not destroy the device.
Inland temperatures in Australia's outback vary by over 40°C within a day during dry seasons. It gets close to freezing every night under clear skies and well over 40°C in the shade during the day. Surface temperature of the ground can be over 55°C. (If you need ground-level sensing in the sun, then you should consider burying the electronics 30cm is usually enough, leaving only the sensors and perhaps antenna exposed to the extremes.)
I agree. Maybe you add these requirements to the respective lists?
Thank you for starting this project about a month ago I went through a similar journey to keep a raspberry pi going during power failure and found a similar issues as you no board does exactly what we need it’s all compromises. If this works out we may have a great power board
Unfortunately, this project died long time ago because of supply chain issues :-(
I built a portable lithium-ion supply. There are a lot more buck converters than boost converters out there at least for the hobbyist so I ended up having to use 2 series batteries then used a buck converter. You could use an adjustable buck for 3.3 and 5.0 volts but thats kind of hackish.
All depend on the requirements, I think. I do not have a lot of projects which use 3.3 and 5 volts, for example.