Music Thing Turing Machine (Plus All Expanders!) Demo/Mega Tutorial
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- Sit back and let me show you one of my favourite modules: The Music Thing Turing Machine Eurorack Module. It'll be practical, philosophical, and we'll try all its expanders: Voltages, Volts, Pulses, Vactrol Mix and more! LINKS BELOW 👇
LINKS TO STUFF
▶️ Buy Music Thing module kits (and TM LPG): www.thonk.co.uk/brand/music-t...
▶️ Music Thing's Site: www.musicthing.co.uk/
▶️ Schreibmaschine: www.schreibmaschine.berlin
SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL
▶️ Share this, comment and subscribe (free!)
▶️ Support me on Patreon: / mylarmelodies
▶️ Buy gear here and help the channel (affiliate link, no cost to you!): tidd.ly/3m4pQDz
▶️ Buy music on Bandcamp: mylarmelodies.bandcamp.com/
FURTHER WATCHING
▶️ That video I mention about how to get into DIY and the Radio Music: • Modular Monthly: An in...
▶️ A video about modulation that also heavily features Turing Machine: • Inspiring Modulation (...
▶️ A lecture Tom Whitwell (its creator) gave on developing it: • Tom Whitwell at the Br...
▶️ Here's a livestream where I build the black Turing Machine in this video in full (no really) from start to finish:
➡ Part 1: • Building a Music Thing...
➡ Part 2: • Building a Music Thing...
CHAPTERS
00:00 Hello.
00:18 Chapter 1: What is Turing Machine?
01:32 Locking Loops, Length
02:26 Scale Knob
04:40 Partial Unlocking/Dial Position
05:02 Length Dial, Locking Left
06:01 Lights Explained/Write Switch
08:30 Pulses Out
10:23 Recap, CV & Noise Sockets
11:39 Noise Output Demo
12:10 Double Turing Techno Demo
14:41 Chapter 2: DIY is Easy + Philiosophies
19:40 Chapter 3: Voltages + Volts Expanders
25:15 Voltages as 8-Step Sequencer
27:27 Introducing Volts
30:14 Chapter 4: Pulses Expander
33:31 Turing+Volts+Voltages Jam
35:35 Chapter 5: Vactrol Mix Expander
40:07 Chapter 6: TM LPG, Software, More Expanders
45:06 Very important final thoughts
Great video! A small correction regarding the Voltages: The leftmost potentiometer _is_ actually a scale control, whereas the right one is an offset as you say.
From the Music Thing website:
_It has two outputs, one normal - with a scale control that works in the same way as the similar control on the main module - and one inverted. The inverted output has a ‘shift’ control which raises (offsets) the voltage by up to 9 volts. This means you can drive positive-only modules (i.e. quantizers) with the inverted output._
Wow, I watched this and didn’t notice that myself. Designed that one quite a long time ago!
Argh I missed this and great shout! Thanks Anders.
@@tombola2004 I feel this gets me off the hook Tom
I love ov
Sdolgete
That was really really fun
„Idea of Techno: Random that is looped is not random anymore.“ hahahah you nailed it!
Turing machines are what got me into modular. Especially MI Marbles blew my mind. I constantly find new and amazing things it can do. It is reason why I have two in my rack.
I feel like you can never have too many Turing Machines lol.
You made me buy a swarm a year ago. Now you're making me buy Turing Machines. You're a one man techno machine selling Legend, and I thank you for your service :)
Absolutely informative. Chapter 5 is the jam!
_"So if you have the gift of sight"_ - Thank you for being you, mylar.
Legendary module. What a neat concept! Tom Whitwell we salute you
I own a Turing Machine, Pulses, Voltages, Volts, Vactrol Mix, Chord Organ, and Radio Music. I have 7 Music Thing modules and zero regrets. Delightful 46:12 spent here today.
FINALLY! Thank you! I finally know what all the other modules do. Definitely ordering up some of the expanders now from thonk!
Thank you for this. Thanks for everyone involved. I spent the past few years trying to create my own version which clearly I'll need to pass your way when it's done.
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for such a clear and fascinating trip.
Thank you so much for the great demo. The Pulse Blender in the video, as well as my Brainiac module are also built on the same architecture and can be used independently, or driven by a Turing Machine, or the Pulsate. I'm working on some more videos to demo all the possible fun combinations as well as making more modules in this family, so give me a follow if you are interested.
This is such a fantastic video! I finally understand the turing machine and the expanders.
my name is kit and i initially thought you were speaking directly to me telling me to buy a "turing machine, kit" at the end there haha
Until now the Turing Machine was part of my lectures in theoretical computer science. Exciting but this TM is far more fascinating.
Just read: Dave Smith (DSI, Sequential, MIDI, ...) has passed away ... very sad.
my god!! this explanation of just how this very... no, I'm gonna say previously mysterious little machine works... this is such a perfectly clear breakdown. totally illuminating!! thanks bunches for this!! bravo!!
I'm a newbie to euro rack, I am old fart from older Moog days. Thank you, I am learning a lot from you quickly, i.e. you provide cogent deep dives in volumes, thank you again.
Built this a few years ago and it's remained in my rack since. Go to random random. Got a couple of voltages in there too... and let's face it - since I've watched this - I'll be getting some more. Love the vactrol expander. That's next innit. Keep up the good work.
Shift Registers are wonderful things. Great video!
I've not used the Turing Machine, but have used the Benjolin rungler and typically go for the Shaos module on the Pulsar
turing mashine tho , in my books, def makes it in the top ten list " greatest modules " ever made by human being. i really love the design of the 2012 version, eventho it misses pulse.
RIP Dave Smith😢
THANKS for the video...is best TMachine master class that I've seen...TX again...best wishes from Bruxelles!!
Thanks for sharing this. Very inspiring!
You are the true master of the Turing machine.
That ARP is sounding incredible.
Turing was robberd!!!
Robbed!! You can rob! We can all do it!!
Alex, this is one of your very best yet! I know a lot of Turnings are out there and many of us have not used it like we could or should, so thanks for the creative kick in the arse. But the reason I really love this video is because I already own one, meaning I don't have to pull my credit card out and cave to the temptation of a buying new module! So much more economical... well almost because I don't have the Vactrol expander, so there is that. Anyway, thanks for the entertainment and your awesomeness of insight. Cheers. ->Carlos
Haha thanks Carlos - yes I reckon the Voltages and Vactrol Mix are kinda the ones to get if you don't have any expanders, some lovely possibilities in them
Looking forward to this as I got one last week
Yes! reminding us why we do modular instead of any other musical approach
and also why most of the music that we create doesn't sound like typical popular music. Its good to be different.
Have you tried using the TM as a waveshaper? Feed it a high-pitched VCO's square wave as clock source, and get wonderful pulse train-based timbres at the gate output. It sounds gorgeous !
that is verrrrrrry interesting.
I'm gonna try this with maths slewing it :)) great idea!
You're a great instructor! Thank you. For a Newb like me, it's amazingly helpful!
I don’t have a expander for a Turing Machine, but I love to combine it with a Kompas from Bastl as a trigger sequencer (and a quantiser of cause) to get great bass lines. Thanks for this in depth video about the TM.
I find it amazing what an underrated salesman you are... 😁 I bought the dfam after your videos, then the quadrantid swarm 🤪 and now I'm gonna find myself a turing machine.. 😬😁 thanks for your 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽 on point reviews.. 👊🏽
Likewise. I now own all three moog semis... and why not
Controlled randomness, I love it!
Time is money. Space is space. I am not going to start soldering. I do love your enthusiasm however. So I have ordered a built Turing. Excellent video. I have watched it multiple times. Love your channel.
Nice one thanks!!
That said, LOVE ya work as always !
I realised how underutilized my Vactrol Mix has been... great demo!
Really enjoyed your video, great demo!
Thank you!!
Thank you for this demo, very very useful to me.
Awesome. I love using Turing machine in Reaktor but I never quite got my head around the expanders other than the vague notion that they added more flexibility to pitch and gate. Thanks!
This has become my favorite channel 💜 I wish you had all the bits of music in your videos as samples for sale
Feel free to sample and remix a bit..?
Love the Addendum music. You + 2 handfulls of Turing = youre home.
I don't have any hardware modular yet (unless you count my Neutron), largely because I'm terrified of ending up in a spending spiral of despair. So it's kind of weird that I keep torturing myself by watching cool videos about it! This is one of the most inspiring ones I've seen so far. I already knew about the Turing Machine and a couple of its expanders, but you demonstrate it so effectively that I feel I'm learning it all over again. Thank you!
VCV Rack! Has a full MTM Turing setup.
@@goonfish Yes, thank you for mentioning that! I have explored VCV Rack in the past, though I need to get v2 soon as I've neglected it for a while. I've also started getting into writing my own code to make music offline, which is occupying a lot of my attention right now :)
that spring Verb 'WIDENER' is making my ears pop! :+)
Thank you for this! I’m trying to find modules that have multiple tricks up their sleeve. I need a straight up sequencer at times but I also thing randomness is the spice of life. This seems to be able to scratch both itches in a compact space. Really enjoyed the video!
Thanks! Nice video. Without a doubt, this is my most used module. Get one if you don't have one or get another if you do.
It's a wonderful machine, concept and an especially wonderful brand ❤️
If you don't have one: you can basically do all this goodness with Pam's new workout, and a sequenced attenuverter and will have even more control (like e.g. gate length). :)
Dang it, you're going to make me build a second Turing Machine, aren't you? Sigh. 😁
Likewise
I love these modules but take quite a bit of space, Marbles does it for me, in fact one of my fav modules ever. Love your vids.
I think the cool factor of the Turing Machine is that you can get a through-hole kit and makes for a pretty approachable build and price. But ultimately I totally agree; Marbles is a brilliant execution of this stuff and fits everything in a really elegant package.
Both is the correct answer :)
marbles seems to have so many more options into how you tweak and control everything.
2hp makes a Turing Machine that gives you basic Turing Machine functionality in only 2 HP of space.
Alex has caused me to spend more money than possibly anyone else aside from dealers in my 20s
Wonderful machine! Really need to build one.
Great video as always !!!
Currently I'm using my 2 Turing Machine to modulate (with voltages) Filter cutof & filter FM of Behringer TD3 MO
That's a great idea! I am going to have to try that.
Great video helped a lot to the module better
I have the 2hp Turing Machine. It's great if you need a small module. The biggest downside is the small knobs. But it works great paired with the Erica Synths Pico Quant. If you want basic Turing Machine functionality in a small package, check it out. I do plan on getting the one in this video because it does things the 2hp doesn't.
Love using pams as a sort of turing machine (:
This is so amazing! Thanks for opening my ears to these modules! Im just starting my Modular journey, I have Plaits and Maths, just saving fir case now and then music thing start up and Turin machine is on my list with the expanders, cants see me needing much else really for a while.
🙌 Maybe a filter and a few VCAs?
@@mylarmelodies can you recommend any and a drum module, the one you used sounded pretty cool! Im planning on getting the Nano Modules case. Thanks for reply , il need to watch your ‘how to solder video though lol’
Filters are very particular, I love Doepfer ones but they tend to be deep. Check your case depth. Defo I would recommend sticking with a dedicated hardware drum machine with analog sync - ideally one that samples and you can make the modular create sounds for it, it’s way cheaper.
@@mylarmelodies I have the Pulsar 23, it’s amazing but I’ve never sampled anything before. I can modulate it though ! Was looking for something more in system just to add percussion to sounds I create! Watching your other videos now about starting out etc, very helpful and making me think more about what I want. Thanks
One of my Disting Mk4 modules is (almost) permanently in Turing Machine mode, either random triggers or random quantized cvs.
Analog Turing machine using sample & hold (sort of):
You send the sample and hold a clock like you would a TM. Send a copy of the clock to a clock divider to determine the length of your sequence. That division goes into the reset input of an occilator of any kind, all it needs is an output that's not square, and the reset input (aka hard sync). That goes into the s&h signal input, at a fast rate.
The reset makes it so the s&h picks random array of signals from the occilator at the same every time. Change the occilator rate even a little and the whole thing changes at once and you can't get the old one back.
Now, for random gates, take this output, and you've already got a random sequence of gates, since any voltage above a certain threshold is treated as gates (be that 5 or 1 or half a volt, it depends on the receiver). Mix it with an offset voltage to manually shift the probability that any step will be a gate. Put the offset through a VCA first to voltage control the probability.
If you insist on having the same "listen and grab" workflow, you could do this:
Take a second s&h, clocked by the same divided clock signal as the occilator reset, and send it to the frequency input of the occilator. Now instead of turning the occilator to generate a new sequence, every cycle will by default generate a new sequence that can be captured by removing the clock signal from the second s&h (with a manual switch or just by pulling the cable out).
I haven't tested this yet, just made it up. I expect that last bit won't work well because s&h aren't good at keeping super steady over a longer time. And they need to be super steady for this.
What a treat. So comprehensive and a joy to listen to the music. What is that gorgeous reverb?
That's the ARP2600m's spring reverb! Nice innit?!
@@mylarmelodies well, it is luscious.
Hello Makina Overload!!
Very nice demo of a very cool module. Thanks for posting that! Have you tried the Future Retro Zillion? You might enjoy it as well. It produces random sequences (in MIDI) that can be controlled in various ways. Based loosely on the Triadex Muse from the 70's, but with more control options.
This is absolutely wonderful! I might need to learn how to solder… Really wish it was available to buy in a built mode though. Well then, maybe I will pick up soldering as a new hobby.
There are used Turing machines sold on the internet every day.
This looks like a really nice module. One thing I think would be a good addition is to have a momentary push button for the lock function, so you could turn the dial and then release the switch, meaning you wouldn't miss any tasty bits you might miss turning the dial quick enough.
In actuality it’s never felt like you can really miss a good bit, it locks fast enough!
you could do this with the divkid mutes module (or similar) plugged into the cv input of the ornament&crime module in turing machine mode
Great vid. Presumably you could click it at audio rate and get interesting sound sculpting?
Yes, it works like a crude wavetable oscillator
We have a video showing this coming soon on Instagram 👍
nais explanation abot TM >> i use a mO&C ( TM-Mode für ipnotik Melos) in Combination with MeloDicer/Bloom ( second Melody-Leadlines) & Arpitecht + Triad (gives me an extrem morphable Arpreggios & Ostinatos plus a Background Chord).
Mine has been neglected since the metropolix arrived. Time to dust it off. Thanks for the nudge.
It’s great as a modulator for Metropolis/lix!!
Ahh no! This video just becomes more and more interesting, why can’t I look away? Stop trying to drag me down the EuroRack Rabbit Hole! As you explain your way through this I can see so many applications, my imagination runs wild alongside you. 🐇 🕳️
Thonk, it's time to offer some factory builds
Could you make a video on how you approach mixing with your live systems? Would be interesting to hear how you work in that area (and steal ideas >:-] ). I always have a hard time knowing when my kick drum is too loud or too quiet.
Revisiting this video having previous got the Turing Machine and Volts, but now hooked on the Vactrol (and TM LPG) and Voltages. No longer seems to be available on Thonk or anywhere else for that matter so I guess I’ve missed the boat 😢
13:16 The stank button gets pressed :D
This is so amazing😌 I am just in chapter 2, but this is incredible
Edit: I never heard of the vactrol mixer one!
The Vactrol Mix was defo for me one of the highlights, second only to the Voltages - Tom Whitwells favourite expander is Vactrol mix...
13:06 sounds like a track from Jeff Mills Live At The Liquid Rooms
I ordered the After Later Audio "Alan" with the expanders but it doesn't have the 'voltages' expander. It only has the other 2 expansions. Can't wait to get it and get some wonky techno happening along with the Metropolix.
Think I may have to get one of these, I’m using a noisering currently but the locked loop doesn’t last forever and you can’t control how many steps as easily.
You presumably could manually set the entire bit sequence by running the clock slowly enough that you could reliably toggle the bits, and then tailor the voltages by using the appropriate bit patterns to lock in a chosen melody. It'd be painful to do and thoroughly pointless, but you could do it.
you have lots of options when just noodling about at home, that time is not available when doing a live set, which he mentioned multiple times is the strength of this modules. providing variety that you can influence but don't have to manage cuz live requires so much more of your attention elsewhere to keep a crowd pleased.
@@jasoneskridge6453 Oh, of course - and it's not like there's any shortage of step sequencers or similar devices out there if setting individual notes is what you want to do. It's just that one of my favorite things about the modular ecosystem is the way that you can twist modules into doing things they're not meant for. Abusing the clock speed to make a step sequencer from a Turing Machine is one example.
Now, just because you _can_ do something doesn't make it a good idea, but I thought I covered that with "painful and thoroughly pointless".
Hi really enjoyed your video, is there a module in vcv rack that would substitute for the voltage sequencer expander module (the one with the 8 horizontal sliders). In vcv rack the turing machine comes with two of the expansion modules you discuss, but not the voltage sequencer unfortunately.
That’s a shame! Voltages might be one of my faves - maybe worth encouraging a developer to look at it?!
Thanks for the education! Considering the After Later Alan Turing Machine. Any thoughts on that module?
@5:00 Totally reminds me of Goblin.
nice video, check out the Clank Chaos module ;-)
this was great! Quick question mate could you tell me what lecture you were chopping up during the vactrol mixer? I got really into it haha
It’s the Bob Moog Red Bull Music Academy interview - on UA-cam if you look for it!
Quick off-topic question: what's that character art on your tablecloth? It *looks* like a Daniel Mróz illustration from The Cyberiad! But I don't think it's in my edition. Is it a homage by somebody?
hey i actually got a really good tip for you regarding your shaky hands. thats a classic sign of weakened ligaments. just open and close you hands a few times while constantly increasing the force with which you close for a few seconds. then close it with force and bend it vertically and horizontally each in both directions(up,down,left,wright) a few times while still havin your arms muscels contracted. the shaking should reduce after only a day of frequently doing this. had the same issue.(hope yours isnt not illnessrelated otherwise im kinda makin a fool out of myself now:D but i know that happens too sadly since my grandmother had a degenerative disease just like that)
but its an actual thing people just dont get get enough excercise sometimes. you can really apply this to anything if you only eat stuff that doesnt require you to chew over time your teeth will loosen in place since your body requires you to use every part of it to function properly(i know how i sound haha) little offtopic ^^
whats also a huge help to know is that u can just eat something that contains gelatine and your body will heal its connective tissue faster. best excuse for a pack of gummiebears maybe find an organic brand haha. ooor your goin the adult version and just cook an stew with a piece of bone(you actually get this for free most of the times if you ask for it). theres also pure gelatine(absolutely disgusting sidetastexd) but you could just make a thin soup with some broth added. works for me each and every time. also helps healing when you overstress or hurt your joints. personal tipp make a ramen soup with a slice of beefleg :DD boil down half a kilo of onions and add a bottle of soysauce and your done in theory(oh and lots of garlic and garlic powder!x)) obviously add what you like haha
nearly forgot about the spring onions never skip on those lol. ehm and for the noodledough pick whatever you like but try pulling them to thin clothlike sheets. man if you try this once ul love me for giving you that tip. i actually stole that idea from an italian grandma(true btw:DD). okay now deep dive on the best best noodlebowl(in my oppinionx) that kind of pulled noodles, one softboiled egg, garlicpowder, soysauce. and now break the egg and mix the eggyolk which is now your sauce ^^ man try just try it. oh if you add chives you enter the gates of heaven hahaha
if im at it already try not wearing that clock it looks like it sits a little. you wouldnt believe it but even that can hinder your bloodflow enough to get uncomfortable. i cant wear tight cloth anymore for the same reason haha drives me nuts overwise
all that said i really enjoyed your video :D:D:D
Hello, can you explain the 11.35 connections on the Arp 2600, where goes the noise out to etc...? thanks for the great tutorial.!!
Reading some comments, I am a little concerned. This is not bleepy random music. This is a treatise on the instrument's possible voice/quip. Information is provided that allows us to choose our voice, for a composition that may be unique, but at least our creation.
You get it 👍
ace. Where did you get the caps for the knob of the swarm? Man I wish that thing had a patchpoint for the decay on the amp...
They're Thonk Tall Trimmer Toppers! Love em on lots of things with pot shafts rather than 'proper' knobs
What modules did you use (filter etc) for the sound around 29:00?? Sounds fantastic
That’s the ARP2600m! A bit of FM on the filter I think 🙌
Where can one get a kit for this in the US? I also am interested in the music thing control module too!
We have very fast and good value FedEx shipping to the US, we ship a lot every day to the states 👍
`so cool! `thank you!
question: what other module did you mention that "has a derivative turning machine in it"? something prime, i think?
Ornament & Crime! see also: Mutable Instruments Marbles
thx!!!
HI, i saw you have a quadrantid swarm, how can i put that in eurorack? thanx!
the skiff with the quad swarm is totally acid.
And now I have to build another rack (which was going to happen if I'm honest) with another Turing Machine hooked to voltages, pulses and Vactrol mix 🤣
Once again, a wonderfully engaging and inspiring video, and I swear you are going to bankrupt me as I dive deeper into modular synths and voltage sculpture as I like to think of it. One maybe obvious question, but could this be used effectively with a Moog grandmother? That’s where I started with all this (thanks to you and Lisa Bella Donna) then moved to a DFAM, and have added the Make Noise trio (0-coast, 0-ctrl, Strega). I am thinking about building a small rack with this Turing machine and it’s friends, and possibly an LFO or two. Is the Grandmother (or 0-coast) a good voice for it? I do love the 2600 in your demo, but wonder with the two oscillator pitch inputs on the GM, and the filter cutoff, if those would give me enough sonic variety? Although I love the sound of the GM I find it’s sequencer a bit limiting and difficult to use in a way that works well.
Or is my 0-ctrl just as well? I’m in a bit of a pickle. I love the inspiration and beauty of random generative sounds and love the idea of locking and shaping them so this is perfect. I just wonder if I have the best “voices” for this endeavor… sorry this is so long.
I think the Grandmother is legitimately one of the best sounding synths Moog make - so yes definitely! If you have an Arturia Rackbrute you can get it to sit nicely above the Grandmother panel! Here’s a video not quite on that but almost: ua-cam.com/video/UY-Qx-UFmGg/v-deo.html
Thanks for the link. That’s perfect.
Also thanks to you I’m just now realizing that the holy grail Gristleizer has been made into modular units! Please let me know if you ever do a full on Future Sound Systems TG gristelizer series. Specifically TG2, 3, 4, and 5. Would love to hear these playing with the Turing machine and some LFOs.
Talk about coincidence that does not mean correlation: mylarmelodies does a video on turing machines the same day I do a video which has seven turing machines in it...
What's the record when speech sampled "what is music"?
15:18 “June 2, 2022” - I live in the future!
Just remember - you mustn't wish your life away! Enjoy this newly found day
Seems weird volts has 5 knobs rather than 8? Isn’t that.. limiting, or at least, it will mean you have less influence over the last 3 steps?
is it actually possible to swing it with a manipulated clock ?
Yes 👍
Noticing that you idn't show the write switch trick when locked CCW, I wonder if this answers a question I had for a long time about whether that switch works in that position. In the TM I built the switch zeros the bits but they get filled back when i release it, if locked CCW. But it works properly when locked CW. Is that normal behaviour?
Yep - checked with Tom to be 100% certain - the behaviour is it’ll be cleared when you hold the write switch down but the moment you release the write switch it’ll sow the inversion as it loops, which will be all positive of course. Dipdabdib up for a mix straight after!
@@mylarmelodies yes, that's what happens! ok all clear then, thanks !
Is there anyway to insert a rest into an output from a Turing? If not, a great feature would be the ability to flip a switch on the Turning, allowing it to random insert rests in the output. I have this same feature request for anything that produces an arpeggio. I know that I can do a short sequence and add rests, but in the spirit of Turing, I want to give up control and let Turing do the output and pattern.
That's what the switch does! If you switch down, it creates gaps...usually. No?
@@mylarmelodies Oh... I misunderstood. I thought a down move on the Write switch dropped the frequency to a lower voltage, not 0 or nothing.
Well it will introduce lower frequencies - but the output is the addition of all the present 1’s and 0’s rather than the specific one you’re playing. And a 0 = a rest on output
I just wish Thonk sold them ready-made, for the 99.9% of us who cannot solder. I did see the four-module set on ebay once, but unsurprisingly it sold for a LOT…
I got mine fully assembled (great job) on eBay from Monolith Modular for £150. And two expanders for £65 each.
Honestly I'd recommend just biting the bullet and learning to solder, it's such a gratifying hobby! Check that video in the description and see what you think?
@@mylarmelodies As I’m just months from UK retirement age, neither my hands nor my eyes are what they were. I would need a GOOD soldering iron. And- surely?- just ONE mistake and it’s ruined.
Now if it were Lego… Or wood…
@@134dabear Thank you. That may be the way to go, piece by piece.
What about TM vs Marbles? Marbles seems to do much more to me.