Is it really, I've been going back and forth learning ts and php wishing there was few things that were different with php just cause I was on top js first. And it's been a while since I looked at the latest php and laravel.
I would say I could go back and forth between php and ts, but I would say that a lot of people talk shit about php and I think it is for the most part because php in the past was pretty bad I have heard, I don't know whether that's true or not but recently I've been learning php and laravel for work and I have to say it looks like magic. I just have a week working with php 7 and laravel 8 and it quickly became one of my favorite way for building backends
@@richardjimenez7819 I would love to learn laravel on the job it's been easy so far. I've been just trying to get my foot in the door. Front and backend can be time consuming with React and TS. So I catch myself sitting on one side of web development much more than the other. Kind of wished I just kept learning laravel now though. But Yeah I can't listen to folks that only repeat what they heard about php.
The client doesn't care what technology you are using, they just want you to solve their problems fast. so, just grab the tools you like and do some work.
It depends on if it's a company that's been around for years, freelancing or small business that just wants something for a google search. Good companies will be okay with you not knowing a specific language or technology as long as you can code and understand what you're doing as they know all languages, frameworks and libraries are just tools used to build solutions to problems. If you know fundamentals in one language, you can go to another when you need to.
@Nixon Kosgei it is a strong word and it is worthy of it... I mean for the past 20 yeas people are saying it is dead but hey it is still here stronger than ever
This video makes PHP look like the old guy when every other mainstream web language are just as old: Python 1994 PHP 1995 JS 1996 Ruby 1996 These languages have their own flaws but have improved overtime. I don't hate languages but sometimes you gotta ask yourself, why would big companies like FB, Wiki, Slack, etc. use PHP if it's "uncool"?
Php was a bigger deal around Facebook's time. I probably would have chosen that over perl at the time. Back in those days, Amazon was using perl as their primary server side stack.
@@realchrishawkes True and honestly I think that's the only reason why PHP became hated, it's because too popular. Now the same thing is happening with JS, it's too popular now, people starts to notice flaws. Btw if you check FB's career listings, they still list PHP in jobs so it's more relevant than ever.
@@webdevnoob yeah bc hack was based on php , it is easier to find a php developer than a hack developer. as PHP developer you dont have problems understanding hack language from facebook. and hack was built that way that it can run php code. so you can begin at facebook as a php developer, developing tools and than learning more about hack
A brief history of the future: 2021: google releases a new php runtime: V12 2022: a couple of tech influencers in sillicon valley begin to toy arround with v12 and php composer 2023: poppy.php 1.0 is getting released a new revolutionary php package manager based on v12 2024: poppy.php is getting a new package manifest file format: PHP Object Notation format 2025: a new poppy package is released "sanskrit.php" its a compiler written in php, which can transpile sanscrit-lang to php. sanskrit-lang is a statically typed superset of php 2026: poppy is getting more popular, each month there are 10000 new poppy packages releases 2030: netflix has refactored their entire codebase and is now using php with v12 as backend tech, they also release a new influential whitepaper: "migrating from a fragmented microservice codebase to the new 'makroservice architecture'" 2032: jobllistings for php are exploding! a lot of them require 10+ years of makroservice architecture experience 2033: google releases a new Visual basic 6.0 Runtime: V16
I learned Node for a personal project last year as a part of a Codecademy Path. But it's been so difficult to find easy to install shared hosting for Node I've switched to PHP. I want to spend my time creating apps, not setting up environments. Your point about PHP being available everywhere is spot on. If that changes, and I suspect it will, we might see a bigger change in usage.
I'm confused; surely there's only JavaScript that was traditionally only client-side, and node has become a pretty ubiquitous part of the web development ecosystem even when not used for building a server.
My thoughts exactly - as a web developer in the late 90's - we used html and JavaScript and the client side but wanted to interact with a DB, (using idc and htx to access Access DBs ), then came asp and aspx. Server Side using Microsoft was more expensive than Linux based hosting, so we moved to PHP and mySQL. I've never looked back!
IMO you missed an important point though: PHP is stateless by nature. Its architecture is built around handling a single HTTP request, dumping HTML, and exiting. This is extremely useful, because it means 1/ no state is shared between requests, so it's impossible to have one request crash the server, or have side-effects between in-memory variables across requests, 2/ it's *extremely* easy to scale: because you don't share anything between requests, horizontal scaling is very easy, you just add resources, whereas in languages where the daemon is embedded into the language, you need to be careful in your whole application not to store anything in-memory, and finally 3/ it's much much easier to learn than other programming languages because the scope of your script is much more reduced: you only need to focus on a single request algorithm and let PHP handle the rest. These features of PHP are native, because it's the model it has been created on, and they are the reason why it's so ubiquitous. It allowed shared hosting (= cheap hosting), it's a model very well suited to Lambda functions, ... I really think that until another technology propose these same features, PHP isn't going anywhere
Not really sure how PHP works in the details, but I think you are referring to the one thread per request i/o model, well that's not really a great feature for scaling. It is actually a terrible model, nowadays there is I/O multiplexing which is much more efficient.
PHP is evolving, each version makes the language more appealing. It's not trendy nor shiny, but heck - it does the job. And if you are good at it you will still get a good salary.
True. Beware of trendy stuff. Most of it burns out quicker than it got fancy. I had stopped plunging into new libraries and extensions, stick to core tech and code happily ever after ;)
I think the widespread use of the LAMP stack is one of the only reasons PHP is still used on newer platforms today. Though, for simple applications, I'd use it over Spring any day.
Yes, PHP is still relevant. Yes, PHP is still the best / most suitable language for the web. Yes, PHP will still be relevant years (and probably decades) from now. Yes, it is evolving and improving - so expect it to be used outside web more and more over time.
Agree that it is relevant and that it is evolving but it is far from the best backend language. I think it's best usecase is Wordpress while other languages thrive in other fronts: -- Python if your backend needs machine learning utilities -- Node for realtime backend stuff such as multiplayer and realtime chat -- Go for multi threaded base performance in the backend when you need to perform heavy cpu tasks such as image processing.
@@migueldomingos4570 - a TYPICAL web site or even web application does not need any machine learning and it definitely does not revolve around it. Even if it needs it, using an external services is better in most TYPICAL cases. This makes this particular use case rather a niche / edge case. - a TYPICAL web site or even web application does not need any realtime multiplayer stuff. And same as above. - a TYPICAL web site or even web application does not have a lot of CPU heavy tasks like image processing etc. This should be offloaded to external service or performed in the background, asynchronously. I do agree, that other backend programming languages - JavaScript/Node.js, Python, Go you've mentioned have their use cases. And for some apps that do particular tasks - like machine learning, realtime communication etc they will shine. And if you're building an image processing app, or realtime chat bot with machine learning - you better choose the most appropriate tool for the job. But a TYPICAL web site/app is much simpler and does not require anything of that. Or even if requires - it can be just a simple module. With PHP you can now write this module in any language that does this task better and plug it in via FFI. Or just have an external serverless function or traditional service/API that does the job. The gist is - for most / typical sites PHP is still the most suitable language. Oh, and your passage re WordPress is just beyond ridiculous.
@@migueldomingos4570 I didn't say (and will never say) they are bad. All of them are great technologies / languages/ frameworks that have their place. The devil is always in the details, and what I'm pointing out is that PHP works great for a typical website. Yes, Ruby or Python will work as well. But they aren't inherently better than PHP, at least for a typical website. And PHP is still the most suitable language for multiple reasons: - runs on any host - easier / faster to learn and get going - newbie friendly - tons of info / tuts / etc - tons of existing tools, libs etc - and many, many more Also, React is definitely not a good fit for a typical website (it's fine for many web apps though). Also, it's not a question of using React specifically, but a frontend framework in general. Some will prefer Angular, Vue, Svelte, Alpine or just build their own. And while having a JavaScript SPA on the frontend, you can still have your backend powered by PHP. I'd really love to hear some real benefits, pros/cons of using Django (Python) or RoR (Ruby) over, say, Laravel (PHP).
Rasmus Lerdorf's vision was a templating system with a C API - i.e. the business logic was supposed to be implemented in C. But the community wanted logic inside the templating system - so eventually he caved. The rest is PHP history. ua-cam.com/video/SvEGwtgLtjA/v-deo.html It's another example of how frequently "popular practices" and "best practices" aren't in alignment (i.e. popularity is a poor indicator of quality). One could argue that React/JSX makes it possible to practice "full-of-logic" templates. The Case Against Logic-less Templates tech.ebayinc.com/engineering/the-case-against-logic-less-templates/ I think templates shouldn't be more powerful than Jinja2/Nunjucks - even then it takes discipline to not do too much inside the template.
The ignorance is strong with this one...PHP is relevant because it doesn't get in your way. I've been doing software ENGINEERING since the 1980s. C++ before it was even officially adopted. Myriad class libraries over the years. Macintosh. Windows. Linux. Java. iOS, Android, etc. ad nauseam. PHP is an actual LANGUAGE not a "do things this way or die" kind of thing. NodeJS is horrific - it's forcing a language to do something it was not intended to do. In my opinion, using GITHUB as your "evidence" that PHP is "dying" because the amount of activity of javascript ( particularly ) and python vs PHP is because NODE and javascript are constantly being CHURNED. And, do you mix-in the client-side vs server-side? ( answer: YES, you didn't differentiate as PHP is STRICTLY server-side, whereas javascript is also on client-side, where the churn is even more pronounced ) How many actual operators and magic things added between ECMA 4 and 6? Promises ( which are a lame attempt at true asynchronous / multitasking which javascript BY DESIGN can't do properly ). Then arrow functions - why? waterfall, parallel, etc.. Webpack - mostly to get the gigantic client-side class libraries to be "uglified and minified" not to mention ridiculous transpilers such as TypeScript and Coffeescript and so-on. The whole arena is loaded with one fad after another after another. We just switched-out a node+express+ angular2+ over to php. The code is 1/20th the size, runs 10x as fast, uses 1/10th the memory and 1/8th the CPU of the nodejs. SEO is improved because the crawlers don't have to wait for the client-side class libraries to populate everything. In a nutshell - PHP doesn't get in your way. PS( I know and use AngularJS, Angular2+, VueJS, React+Redux, node+express, and ( god-forbid ) ColdFusion. PHP, in the right hands, is the best and fastest way to ship )
When you have tools like Vercel, Netlify, GitHub pages and frameworks like NextJS and many other JAMStack having an ability to host personal projects for free. It makes it difficult for developers starting out to choose a language that requires paid hosting for their learning and demonstration purposes. You can see the shift in the graphs when those services arrived or gained mass adoption. That being said! I still love PHP ❤️!
@@HairyPixels There’s tons of places to host NodeJS at no cost. One popular place is Heroku. Vercel does as well. It has a very specific arrangement of file structure in order for it to work. Have a look at Heroku. Not terribly difficult to set up :) Good luck!
@@fragileglass9622 I wonder how many other people are using PHP because their hosts suck? We tend to want our sites on the servers we already pay for but nodejs may not be well supported out in the real world.
The A in J.A.M. stack still requires a server which can be any backend like Node or even PHP. If you're not using a backend, i.e., plain static sites, then its not "JAM" stack.
@@webdevnoob Uhhhj- yeah most tools that are in the JAMStack realm convert to static HTML. You missed the point I was making. When you can host, NextJS, Gatsby, Angular projects for free: it makes it more appealing for new developers to learn and deploy portfolio pieces at no charge. Something that is not available in the PHP realm. Aside from Heroku. Which does offer limitation to the hosting like delayed boot up etc. Great for something like Laravel. Not so great for more simplistic PHP projects.
PHP is still and probably will always be the default language for the web. It is not slow (there is just alot of badly written code that makes is slow) and since PHP 7 it is comparable to a JAVA, C# or even Node performance. It is the default language for almost all shared hosting platforms (AWS & Azure are not cost effective for small businesses) and it just works. At my company we have built all out core systems in PHP and serve over 1M+ sessions a month and thousands of customers and PHP lets us get the job done quickly, stress free and flexibly. Don't get me wrong I have used and love other languages, but PHP will always be my first choice for a new project and in 2020 I would say their is nothing you "can't do" with PHP, with or without Laravel & Wordpress. Your video was great tho. I think it is also worth noting that as PHP get more stable it requires less and less maintanence. From Version 5 to 7 their where some major leaps and 8 is an even bigger one.
- As a language reaches maturity, it will decline in code commits, so this is not a good assessment of how good a language is. - Python scores pretty well, because we have a BUNCH of new kids learning python around, that doesn't mean they'll stick with it, people google more often what they want to learn, therefore if you know a language well, you wont google that often thus also decrease in stats. - Programming is a way of thinking, as we evolve as humans, our way of thinking evolves, pushing new paradigms to the languages we use, ancient wisdom never dies, it usually evolves into something else, same way Perl gave birth to PHP, PHP might give birth to something else. I've been experimenting with next-gen PHP, with php-fpm and concurrent tasking over QUIC protocol around high performance apps, it definitely competes with lower level (high scale) languages, looking forward to php 8. I think the full potential of modern PHP in websites are not being used at large and people often underestimate the 'value' behind a consolidated language. PHP is far from perfect, and there are things I hate about PHP, semi-colons for one, HATE those buggers lol, plus we Desperately need proper types!
i think Facebook is written in PHP. It's declining but it was the best option back then, and someday we'll have something better than Django. btw i like the fact that you give your opinion about languages it helps me choose what to learn
yes it is, php is very relevant, come to Greece and see with your own eyes how every e-shop is build with a php framework or based cms so yeah is very needed most websites still run on php
What is there for other languages that can match Laravel's features? I mean, the ecosystem is huge but I really don't know anything better for creating backend APIs that comes close to Laravel, maybe Spring Boot, but Java? Really?
@@vjorihoxha1115 I'm not too much into python, but I don't think it does. The sole existence of things like Laravel Nova, Socialite, Passport, Sanctum, Jetstream and etc, takes Laravel to a whole new level. You can build commercial software in matter of weeks. In the end it really depends on the type of the project.
I think it's easier to use a single language (javascript) on both client and server than deal with two different languages. that's why node became so popular. python, c#, and java also suffer from this issue because ppl have no choice but to use javascript on the front-end.
Compared to years ago, today there are new languages, for example javascript is huge, and there are a infinity of frameworks and libraries that help the language. I believe the drop in popularity is absolutely normal. PHP today have to share space with other languages, and many people go for the hype. PHP has been constantly updated, and today it is a great language to work with, especially with frameworks like Laravel. If you are a good programmer, and your focus is web/backend, PHP has everything you need.
I can tell you from working all over Europe that I have encountered a lot of PHP in either online gambling websites (mostly in Malta) and some platforms that came up earlier and are still around. There are definitely jobs to be found with PHP, but the question is why would you do that to yourself :p
Half of the video was about PHP history. It's history. You can make it about JS too, which was creat the same- by one person in 1996. Another half is about people using other languages than PHP. So what? 300 CVs for JS internship is the norm. It is *not* about how many jobs there are. It's about jobs divide by job applicants. Indeed show you that there is 800% increase, and you are saying that seniors take juniors jobs? So why there is +1k senior offers (and 4k mid offers)? The whole video is big *confirmation bias*.
I think no.. at least in my country 😀 php is still preferred by companies and developers to build web apps. My friends, like it or not now also learning php because there are still high demand for laravel and wordpress developer 😀
The langage is still cripled with stupid anti-pattern designs despite all the efforts to improve it. They've been good changes, but when you look at it they're essentially critical improvement that prevent the langage to get definitively into oblivion. As a software ingeneer who discovered it 2 years ago, i can tell there's so much weird things you HAVE to know, that the langage really seem to work against you when you're trying to produce reliable code. As other said, also, bad habits in the community is staple and a real nightmare. And last, when you look at comments in the documentation, every single piece is about micro optimization. BUT, it just works if you know what you're doing.
In my experience, at least 50% of those "PHP Developer" jobs are really glorified WordPress Admin jobs. These are also usually contract/temp jobs and subject to being outsourced. Maybe that is just my area though (med/large midwest USA city). I would stay away, or at least get good at something complementary, like JS + React/Vue/Angular to have something to fall back on. I think PHP will be around forever but become increasingly niche.
Not in a vacuum. Start with something less niche, python or javascript for example. Once you know one of those PHP will not only make more sense, but be more valuable.
you can give it a try, the whole "learning to code" thing is like saying Truckers should now finish med school or engineering. Programming is not for everyone. Give it a try and see if you like it. You do need to be an intellectual/nerd type to really compete in the market though. The other people who will be applying for jobs are true nerds.
@@johnames6430 I began learning Basic in 1984 in elementary school but picked up a pair of drumsticks that same summer and music won my soul's attention. I've been learning Python the last couple of months and have a couple of friends who work in IT.
Nice analysis, don't know if knowing PHP is a good skill for getting employed but it does provide important knowledge not that Perl doesn't. After listening to that long Rasmus talk it seems PHP got it right but Perl no. Impressed with Rasmus Lerdorf's knowledge, humility, and humanity. I agree with Vjori Hoxha.
In Aug 2019, PHP was used as the server side language used by 78% of websites. So it's obviously relevant, even though, yes, it's not the future. My college decided to stop teaching it in their web programming class, which is probably the right move.
@@IJaba27 Node, express.js. That said we're more expected to understand the general concepts behind these tools rather than the specifics (like we spent a day on express and that was it), and for our final project we can use whatever we want to.
I don't love it, but I've been forced to learn it because smaller companies rely on wordpress and php. I would love to afford groceries and rent, so...
wow, this is the Exact question i been grappling with for the past week or more, since i am about to reenter software development after a decade; am not interested in 9am to 12pm job due to my age and i have heard for freelancing market PHP is rising up in demand. btw, if you are a veteran too , skip at 05:20 to avoid "History". its good video. the Covid scam has opened more doors for freelancers and freedom lovers like me. :-)
I just don't understand videos like this one... I get click baiting people into watching a video with a title such as this one, but to be honest, click baiting is ruining the internet completely these days and I hope it will die sooner rather than later... Is PHP still relevant... really? Even PASCAL is still relevant... What are people with websites built in PHP supposed to do without PHP? Just dump all of their website files into some kind of a converter that would instead convert the code into Python or some other language? Yes, that's not possible, hence PHP is always going to be relevant, as long as there are websites using it that exist. Same goes for any other language out there and topics like this one are completely unnecessary
It's not that useless. The trend is there and it's a sign that in the following years many website remakes will be made in a different language. So, regardless of experience, this is a good sign (and time) that you should (also) learn something else.
I believe any reduction in the “popularity” of PHP is attributed to the availability of more and better plugins. There is just less custom coding necessary to satisfy the marketplace. I think security issues should be addressed by the framework rather than the language. Every study I’ve seen shows PHP as being much more performant than newcomer interpreted languages (much of which may be attributable to those ‘$’ variable prefixes). If I had to pick a successor to PHP it would probably be Node.js. It seems to accomplish an awful lot with fewer lines of code. PS> And MVC and ORM are software design patterns that keep mediocre software devs mediocre.
Don't listen to anyone who says php is obsolete or it will go away. Not every php jobs is going to be a glorified "Wordpress admin" job. There are still jobs out there that requires knowing actual software engineering skills in php (modern php 7, OOP design patterns, performan, best practices, etc.) - this positions are hard to fill because most people who 'know' php only know wordpress or basic Laravel from youtube tutorials. Listening to youtube videos with titles like "Is X language is still relevant" or "Why X is a dying language" will only demotivated and discourage your learning process.
Very much relevant. There is Laravel. Plus, the newer version of php is getting better and better. I just wish php was more scalable to compete with Python in terms of scalability.
Perl and PHP reminds me of AT&T x86 assembly but props to it being one of the first. I just don't like the syntax but that is juts an opinion no attack on the languages.
I think with time we may see an increase in PHP. It's heavily routed in by now and with laravel and symfony (which I love) it's opened up the love again for PHP. I hope so anyway lol. Interesting vid though 👍
PHP is relevant, but will it get you a job? It "can," but not necessarily in the conventional manner. Most of the available positions are not promoted through the most popular channels. It will definitely get you a project and some income. I think PHP gives web developers a sort of freedom from the "establishment," in the same way JavaScript used to on the client side. I believe the rise in cloud platforms has caused more small business and independents to use more enterprise-oriented technology.
The only thing i hate PHP is it’s hard to debug, i’m so used to “console.log” of JS. Though i’m still trying hard to learn PHP esp. Laravel since i bought a month of Laracast. I’m a VueJS dev and want to try Laravel
Use xdebug in combination with a good editor like phpstorm, makes console.log look like a joke 😉 It's not easy to set up but really pays dividends when you do. There are docker containers with apache php and xdebug set up for you for remote debugging. I've fixed bugs in hours with xdebug when other devs used only logging to debug taking days and nights without finding the cause. You can look into variables, step through and into code, set break points with expressions, walk through the call stack etc. There's even a profiler so you can hunt down performance bottlenecks and memory leaks without having to log microsecond times and memory usages contaminating your code.
I'm a PHP developer and couldn't imagine life without PHPStorm. Don't understand why many persist with a bog standard text editor and var_dump/print_r all over the code. A proper IDE gives so much more power
Im not sure what OLD about PHP... PHP was created in the 1990s... same applies to Python... and Ruby... soooo whats the difference in terms of age?? C and C++ and JAVA are NOT going away anytime soon... PHP is very C/C++ like... as is JAVA... as is JavaScript... Python is kind of C like but not really... and Ruby is JAPANESE... and NOT C like at all... PHP does a GREAT job for what it was built for... Web development with RUBY sucks... and it also sucks with PYTHON... You can do web development with C++ and the apps will be super fast, but the development process is going to be LONG and the experience is going to be horrible... Still C++ is used A LOT for heavy data processing in financial companies and trading companies... also used to build graphics engines like Unreal... so thats going away... JAVA is still used a LOT in banks, and other financial companies... also is used to build APIs... also is used to create cross-platform engines like WebGL and such... What is Python used for in web development??? Building APIs... thats pretty much it... yes, Python is used in academia a LOT... specifically to work with statistical data... it pairs well with R... but anytime you need to do any kind of HEAVY data processing for high energy physics and simulation... C/C++/ and sometimes JAVA are used... Personally, i would say that PYTHON is todays PERL... cant really be compared with PHP... different languages build for different purposes... its like comparing different kinds of utensils for consuming different types of food... If you are eating rice, which one is better: a spoon, a fork or chop sticks??? The answer is IT DEPENDS who you ask... all of them get the job done... And yet the SPOON is the most efficient one... and if you ask the Japanese they will tell you that Chop Sticks are the best... Apply the same options to eating mashed potatoes... im not sure how many people will eat Mashed potatoes with Chop sticks given the other options... or if you were eating french fries with a spoon...that would be super annoying... same applies to languages...
What a silly click bait question. Just look at the php ecosystem. On the job market I see a lot of junior and senior php coders wanted. I hardly see any python, ruby, etc. coder wanted. LoL - how many websites are made with python ?
@@udyhome1639 try it out and you will know why.. C# is on rising trend now.. Visual Studio intellisense and C# strong type language is more suitable for enterprise use.
PHP Java are like zombies they do not die even being dead. PHP just getting better but learn language learn fundamentals solve problems I believe you can code in most language. Php most hated language ever
hmm, well WordPRess runs 1/3 of all websites on the Internet and is written in PHP Almost every hosting company uses WHMCS as their billing system, which is written in PHP Pretty much all the most popular and widely used web apps are written in PHP. So i'd say it is a very silly question.
So let’s reverse this video argument as a thought experiment. should you use python? Well I used it along time ago did not like it. Present statistics that don’t favor the language. So maybe learn something else. Oh and also learn how to code php with my video course.
I personally hate PHP because it is a language that was created out of necessity. It was never well organized or planned to become an actual programming language. The original purpose of PHP was to add dynamic variables into HTML files, so $myTitle. It was simply a templating tool (Notice the $ symbole). With time people started adding functions, classes, namespaces, ... making it an actual programming language. The issue now, is that it looks like a Frankenstein monster without any identity of its own. The $ symbole is now veey annoying: Why $someVariable, when i can do someVariable. The decision to use "->" instead of just ".", and all these "array_shift()", "array_transform()", ... functions maks programming painful. Example, lets say you want to filter an array, whose values multiplied by 2 are divisible by 3. In JS/TS. [1, 2, 3].map(v => v*2).filter(v => v % 3; );. In PHP: $result = array_transform([1, 2, 3], static function(int $value) { return $value * 2; }). $temp = array_filter($result, static function(int $value) { return $value % 3; }). There is a gotcha in the PHP version because $temp will be [null, null, 6]. You have to be careful if you want to iterate through $temp. Let's not forget the inconsistencies in the language, the lack of meaningful concurrency, the lack of an actual strict type system, like precising that the user should provide an array of int. Only one class per file, low performance compared to JS, ugly backward compatibility, lack of libraries, lazy and beginner-full community, lack of versatibility (create desktop and android app with electron and Js, but not with PHP for example), ... . The original author of PHP never thought it would get popular. The language became a hit because there was nothing better at the time. Now with Golang, Js/Ts with Node, Rust, Python, C++, C, Scala, ... there is almost no reason to use PHP. Unfortunately some legacy projects ars still writing in it.
PHP is for the web only, that it's drawback. But at least 60 percent of the web is PHP, that is a billion websites or close. And please stop sh*tting on languages. If you don't like it - create a new one, please. Thanks 😊
Because most of commentator in here are php dev so no wonder they defend their programming language even is has inconsistent and horrible thing on it. PHP is just product of trend on the past, and when other language replace its place, php dev yelling "is only trend, not follow it", is sooo ironic.
As long as Wordpress and Laravel exist, I think PHP will be relevant.
First thing I thought when I saw the vid title - "Um, Wordpress?"
@@oplawlz I thought of Laravel, isn't that like the top backend framework, beating Django and express?
@@fahimemroz9141 It's useful, sure - but wordpress runs something like 70% of business websites atm, so it was my first thought xD
And all the eCommerce stuff, a lot of them are written in PHP ever if they completely rewrite it (eg. Shopware)
Have you tried Symfony? You should really try Symfony. :)
PHP pays the bills.
I hear that.
I love PHP. PHP 7 rocks and PHP 8 is looking even better. Going back and forth from Typescript to PHP is seamless for me.
Is it really, I've been going back and forth learning ts and php wishing there was few things that were different with php just cause I was on top js first. And it's been a while since I looked at the latest php and laravel.
I would say I could go back and forth between php and ts, but I would say that a lot of people talk shit about php and I think it is for the most part because php in the past was pretty bad I have heard, I don't know whether that's true or not but recently I've been learning php and laravel for work and I have to say it looks like magic. I just have a week working with php 7 and laravel 8 and it quickly became one of my favorite way for building backends
@@richardjimenez7819 I would love to learn laravel on the job it's been easy so far. I've been just trying to get my foot in the door. Front and backend can be time consuming with React and TS. So I catch myself sitting on one side of web development much more than the other. Kind of wished I just kept learning laravel now though. But Yeah I can't listen to folks that only repeat what they heard about php.
Kid: "Haha you still use PHP?"
Also Kid: *not even used js outside React*
That’s a happy kid
hahaha. So true!
With Laravel around and improving, PHP is here to stay.
As in, we already got it done, while the other stack is still fixing the unknown server errors, ha. !!! Laravel !!!!
The client doesn't care what technology you are using, they just want you to solve their problems fast. so, just grab the tools you like and do some work.
Most of the times they do care.
They actually do, as later they will have to build a team to add more features.
It depends on if it's a company that's been around for years, freelancing or small business that just wants something for a google search.
Good companies will be okay with you not knowing a specific language or technology as long as you can code and understand what you're doing as they know all languages, frameworks and libraries are just tools used to build solutions to problems. If you know fundamentals in one language, you can go to another when you need to.
PHP will never die.
@Nixon Kosgei Never means even if its use shrinks, it'll live forever in history books.
@Nixon Kosgei it is a strong word and it is worthy of it... I mean for the past 20 yeas people are saying it is dead but hey it is still here stronger than ever
This video makes PHP look like the old guy when every other mainstream web language are just as old:
Python 1994
PHP 1995
JS 1996
Ruby 1996
These languages have their own flaws but have improved overtime.
I don't hate languages but sometimes you gotta ask yourself, why would big companies like FB, Wiki, Slack, etc. use PHP if it's "uncool"?
Php was a bigger deal around Facebook's time. I probably would have chosen that over perl at the time. Back in those days, Amazon was using perl as their primary server side stack.
@@realchrishawkes True and honestly I think that's the only reason why PHP became hated, it's because too popular. Now the same thing is happening with JS, it's too popular now, people starts to notice flaws.
Btw if you check FB's career listings, they still list PHP in jobs so it's more relevant than ever.
@@webdevnoob yeah bc hack was based on php , it is easier to find a php developer than a hack developer. as PHP developer you dont have problems understanding hack language from facebook. and hack was built that way that it can run php code. so you can begin at facebook as a php developer, developing tools and than learning more about hack
@@VitalijMik hack and hack eh
@@realchrishawkes the biggest porn site in the world pornhub is also powered by PHP. 9gag is also powered by PHP.
A brief history of the future:
2021: google releases a new php runtime: V12
2022: a couple of tech influencers in sillicon valley begin to toy arround with v12 and php composer
2023: poppy.php 1.0 is getting released a new revolutionary php package manager based on v12
2024: poppy.php is getting a new package manifest file format: PHP Object Notation format
2025: a new poppy package is released "sanskrit.php" its a compiler written in php, which can transpile sanscrit-lang to php. sanskrit-lang is a statically typed superset of php
2026: poppy is getting more popular, each month there are 10000 new poppy packages releases
2030: netflix has refactored their entire codebase and is now using php with v12 as backend tech, they also release a new influential whitepaper: "migrating from a fragmented microservice codebase to the new 'makroservice architecture'"
2032: jobllistings for php are exploding! a lot of them require 10+ years of makroservice architecture experience
2033: google releases a new Visual basic 6.0 Runtime: V16
oh god this is a suspiciously accurate prognosis
Hello guys I am coming from the future 2200. We are still using PHP
Hey I want some stock picks lol
When did covid-19 end?
of all the hatred php stood.
I learned Node for a personal project last year as a part of a Codecademy Path. But it's been so difficult to find easy to install shared hosting for Node I've switched to PHP. I want to spend my time creating apps, not setting up environments. Your point about PHP being available everywhere is spot on. If that changes, and I suspect it will, we might see a bigger change in usage.
Your analysis has a flaw, you can't align PHP with client-side Languages. You need to compared PHP with Server-side languages.
I'm confused; surely there's only JavaScript that was traditionally only client-side, and node has become a pretty ubiquitous part of the web development ecosystem even when not used for building a server.
My thoughts exactly - as a web developer in the late 90's - we used html and JavaScript and the client side but wanted to interact with a DB, (using idc and htx to access Access DBs ), then came asp and aspx. Server Side using Microsoft was more expensive than Linux based hosting, so we moved to PHP and mySQL. I've never looked back!
if don't have time to watch the video:
Yes, it is still relevant
Tis
IMO you missed an important point though: PHP is stateless by nature. Its architecture is built around handling a single HTTP request, dumping HTML, and exiting. This is extremely useful, because it means 1/ no state is shared between requests, so it's impossible to have one request crash the server, or have side-effects between in-memory variables across requests, 2/ it's *extremely* easy to scale: because you don't share anything between requests, horizontal scaling is very easy, you just add resources, whereas in languages where the daemon is embedded into the language, you need to be careful in your whole application not to store anything in-memory, and finally 3/ it's much much easier to learn than other programming languages because the scope of your script is much more reduced: you only need to focus on a single request algorithm and let PHP handle the rest.
These features of PHP are native, because it's the model it has been created on, and they are the reason why it's so ubiquitous. It allowed shared hosting (= cheap hosting), it's a model very well suited to Lambda functions, ... I really think that until another technology propose these same features, PHP isn't going anywhere
Not really sure how PHP works in the details, but I think you are referring to the one thread per request i/o model, well that's not really a great feature for scaling. It is actually a terrible model, nowadays there is I/O multiplexing which is much more efficient.
Let me know when you make this video again in 5 years
PHP is evolving, each version makes the language more appealing. It's not trendy nor shiny, but heck - it does the job. And if you are good at it you will still get a good salary.
True. Beware of trendy stuff. Most of it burns out quicker than it got fancy. I had stopped plunging into new libraries and extensions, stick to core tech and code happily ever after ;)
I think the widespread use of the LAMP stack is one of the only reasons PHP is still used on newer platforms today. Though, for simple applications, I'd use it over Spring any day.
I doubt github numbers tbh.
Every single symfony project I have is tagged as javascript by github as soon as I include bootstrap on it.
If you're skilled with PHP you will have an IT role for years to come. If your skills are mediocre you won't be doing C# or Python in the future.
Exactly languages don't make a programmer great programmer makes a language great
@@tanzimibthesam5861 I've seen skilled PHP developers. Its almost as if they are using a different language than the majority.
Yes, PHP is still relevant.
Yes, PHP is still the best / most suitable language for the web.
Yes, PHP will still be relevant years (and probably decades) from now.
Yes, it is evolving and improving - so expect it to be used outside web more and more over time.
Agree that it is relevant and that it is evolving but it is far from the best backend language. I think it's best usecase is Wordpress while other languages thrive in other fronts:
-- Python if your backend needs machine learning utilities
-- Node for realtime backend stuff such as multiplayer and realtime chat
-- Go for multi threaded base performance in the backend when you need to perform heavy cpu tasks such as image processing.
@@migueldomingos4570
- a TYPICAL web site or even web application does not need any machine learning and it definitely does not revolve around it. Even if it needs it, using an external services is better in most TYPICAL cases. This makes this particular use case rather a niche / edge case.
- a TYPICAL web site or even web application does not need any realtime multiplayer stuff. And same as above.
- a TYPICAL web site or even web application does not have a lot of CPU heavy tasks like image processing etc. This should be offloaded to external service or performed in the background, asynchronously.
I do agree, that other backend programming languages - JavaScript/Node.js, Python, Go you've mentioned have their use cases. And for some apps that do particular tasks - like machine learning, realtime communication etc they will shine. And if you're building an image processing app, or realtime chat bot with machine learning - you better choose the most appropriate tool for the job. But a TYPICAL web site/app is much simpler and does not require anything of that. Or even if requires - it can be just a simple module. With PHP you can now write this module in any language that does this task better and plug it in via FFI. Or just have an external serverless function or traditional service/API that does the job.
The gist is - for most / typical sites PHP is still the most suitable language.
Oh, and your passage re WordPress is just beyond ridiculous.
@@IhorVorotnov Even for common websites Django or ruby on rails or firebase with react are good
@@migueldomingos4570 I didn't say (and will never say) they are bad. All of them are great technologies / languages/ frameworks that have their place. The devil is always in the details, and what I'm pointing out is that PHP works great for a typical website.
Yes, Ruby or Python will work as well. But they aren't inherently better than PHP, at least for a typical website. And PHP is still the most suitable language for multiple reasons:
- runs on any host
- easier / faster to learn and get going
- newbie friendly
- tons of info / tuts / etc
- tons of existing tools, libs etc
- and many, many more
Also, React is definitely not a good fit for a typical website (it's fine for many web apps though). Also, it's not a question of using React specifically, but a frontend framework in general. Some will prefer Angular, Vue, Svelte, Alpine or just build their own. And while having a JavaScript SPA on the frontend, you can still have your backend powered by PHP.
I'd really love to hear some real benefits, pros/cons of using Django (Python) or RoR (Ruby) over, say, Laravel (PHP).
@@IhorVorotnov But for a typical Website now days without anything special u will be better with just using something as firebase
With a father who doesn't like programming, that explains a lot about PHP's life. Thanks Chris.
Rasmus Lerdorf's vision was a templating system with a C API - i.e. the business logic was supposed to be implemented in C.
But the community wanted logic inside the templating system - so eventually he caved. The rest is PHP history.
ua-cam.com/video/SvEGwtgLtjA/v-deo.html
It's another example of how frequently "popular practices" and "best practices" aren't in alignment (i.e. popularity is a poor indicator of quality).
One could argue that React/JSX makes it possible to practice "full-of-logic" templates.
The Case Against Logic-less Templates
tech.ebayinc.com/engineering/the-case-against-logic-less-templates/
I think templates shouldn't be more powerful than Jinja2/Nunjucks - even then it takes discipline to not do too much inside the template.
we have been having this discussion for over 5 years now i havent noticed a change
The ignorance is strong with this one...PHP is relevant because it doesn't get in your way. I've been doing software ENGINEERING since the 1980s. C++ before it was even officially adopted. Myriad class libraries over the years. Macintosh. Windows. Linux. Java. iOS, Android, etc. ad nauseam.
PHP is an actual LANGUAGE not a "do things this way or die" kind of thing. NodeJS is horrific - it's forcing a language to do something it was not intended to do.
In my opinion, using GITHUB as your "evidence" that PHP is "dying" because the amount of activity of javascript ( particularly ) and python vs PHP is because NODE and javascript are constantly being CHURNED. And, do you mix-in the client-side vs server-side? ( answer: YES, you didn't differentiate as PHP is STRICTLY server-side, whereas javascript is also on client-side, where the churn is even more pronounced )
How many actual operators and magic things added between ECMA 4 and 6? Promises ( which are a lame attempt at true asynchronous / multitasking which javascript BY DESIGN can't do properly ). Then arrow functions - why? waterfall, parallel, etc.. Webpack - mostly to get the gigantic client-side class libraries to be "uglified and minified" not to mention ridiculous transpilers such as TypeScript and Coffeescript and so-on. The whole arena is loaded with one fad after another after another.
We just switched-out a node+express+ angular2+ over to php. The code is 1/20th the size, runs 10x as fast, uses 1/10th the memory and 1/8th the CPU of the nodejs. SEO is improved because the crawlers don't have to wait for the client-side class libraries to populate everything.
In a nutshell - PHP doesn't get in your way.
PS( I know and use AngularJS, Angular2+, VueJS, React+Redux, node+express, and ( god-forbid ) ColdFusion. PHP, in the right hands, is the best and fastest way to ship )
When you have tools like Vercel, Netlify, GitHub pages and frameworks like NextJS and many other JAMStack having an ability to host personal projects for free. It makes it difficult for developers starting out to choose a language that requires paid hosting for their learning and demonstration purposes. You can see the shift in the graphs when those services arrived or gained mass adoption.
That being said! I still love PHP ❤️!
I just found out today my paid hosting doesn't support NodeJS! I've been using PHP for years but I can't even try NodeJS on my own server.
@@HairyPixels There’s tons of places to host NodeJS at no cost. One popular place is Heroku. Vercel does as well. It has a very specific arrangement of file structure in order for it to work.
Have a look at Heroku. Not terribly difficult to set up :)
Good luck!
@@fragileglass9622 I wonder how many other people are using PHP because their hosts suck? We tend to want our sites on the servers we already pay for but nodejs may not be well supported out in the real world.
The A in J.A.M. stack still requires a server which can be any backend like Node or even PHP.
If you're not using a backend, i.e., plain static sites, then its not "JAM" stack.
@@webdevnoob Uhhhj- yeah most tools that are in the JAMStack realm convert to static HTML.
You missed the point I was making. When you can host, NextJS, Gatsby, Angular projects for free: it makes it more appealing for new developers to learn and deploy portfolio pieces at no charge. Something that is not available in the PHP realm.
Aside from Heroku. Which does offer limitation to the hosting like delayed boot up etc. Great for something like Laravel. Not so great for more simplistic PHP projects.
PHP is still and probably will always be the default language for the web. It is not slow (there is just alot of badly written code that makes is slow) and since PHP 7 it is comparable to a JAVA, C# or even Node performance. It is the default language for almost all shared hosting platforms (AWS & Azure are not cost effective for small businesses) and it just works. At my company we have built all out core systems in PHP and serve over 1M+ sessions a month and thousands of customers and PHP lets us get the job done quickly, stress free and flexibly. Don't get me wrong I have used and love other languages, but PHP will always be my first choice for a new project and in 2020 I would say their is nothing you "can't do" with PHP, with or without Laravel & Wordpress. Your video was great tho. I think it is also worth noting that as PHP get more stable it requires less and less maintanence. From Version 5 to 7 their where some major leaps and 8 is an even bigger one.
“There’s a lot of youtubers spurring bullshit, well I might be one of them” haha that’s why I watch you man, your honesty
- As a language reaches maturity, it will decline in code commits, so this is not a good assessment of how good a language is.
- Python scores pretty well, because we have a BUNCH of new kids learning python around, that doesn't mean they'll stick with it, people google more often what they want to learn, therefore if you know a language well, you wont google that often thus also decrease in stats.
- Programming is a way of thinking, as we evolve as humans, our way of thinking evolves, pushing new paradigms to the languages we use, ancient wisdom never dies, it usually evolves into something else, same way Perl gave birth to PHP, PHP might give birth to something else.
I've been experimenting with next-gen PHP, with php-fpm and concurrent tasking over QUIC protocol around high performance apps, it definitely competes with lower level (high scale) languages, looking forward to php 8.
I think the full potential of modern PHP in websites are not being used at large and people often underestimate the 'value' behind a consolidated language.
PHP is far from perfect, and there are things I hate about PHP, semi-colons for one, HATE those buggers lol, plus we Desperately need proper types!
i think Facebook is written in PHP. It's declining but it was the best option back then, and someday we'll have something better than Django. btw i like the fact that you give your opinion about languages it helps me choose what to learn
We already have something better than Django. It's called Flask :)
@@rogertunnell5764 i started learning Django a few days ago, not Flask because there are 2 times more jobs in Django than Flask
yes it is,
php is very relevant, come to Greece and see with your own eyes how every e-shop is build with a php framework or based cms
so yeah is very needed most websites still run on php
So, if PHP is “fading into obscurity”, what will replace it?
What is there for other languages that can match Laravel's features? I mean, the ecosystem is huge but I really don't know anything better for creating backend APIs that comes close to Laravel, maybe Spring Boot, but Java? Really?
Making SPA is so awesome with Laravel
You don't think Django challenges Laravel?
@@vjorihoxha1115 For SPA does Django go so well with Vue ??
@@tanzimibthesam5861 I don't know that is why I am asking.
@@vjorihoxha1115 I'm not too much into python, but I don't think it does. The sole existence of things like Laravel Nova, Socialite, Passport, Sanctum, Jetstream and etc, takes Laravel to a whole new level. You can build commercial software in matter of weeks. In the end it really depends on the type of the project.
While there's jobs and start ups hiring for that language, it's not dying
Rule #1; Don't judge the capability of a programming language from its website. Have you seen linux website?
I think it's easier to use a single language (javascript) on both client and server than deal with two different languages. that's why node became so popular. python, c#, and java also suffer from this issue because ppl have no choice but to use javascript on the front-end.
agree
So what's replacing PHP for server side interactions as far as web development projects go???
Node, Python, Ruby, C#, Java, but PHP is still strong.
@@realchrishawkes Thank you for your reply it was very helpful! Also, great video!
Php7 with a di container makes TDD super easy.
But legacy php code is some of the worst code I’ve ever encountered
Compared to years ago, today there are new languages, for example javascript is huge, and there are a infinity of frameworks and libraries that help the language.
I believe the drop in popularity is absolutely normal.
PHP today have to share space with other languages, and many people go for the hype.
PHP has been constantly updated, and today it is a great language to work with, especially with frameworks like Laravel.
If you are a good programmer, and your focus is web/backend, PHP has everything you need.
I can tell you from working all over Europe that I have encountered a lot of PHP in either online gambling websites (mostly in Malta) and some platforms that came up earlier and are still around. There are definitely jobs to be found with PHP, but the question is why would you do that to yourself :p
Half of the video was about PHP history. It's history. You can make it about JS too, which was creat the same- by one person in 1996.
Another half is about people using other languages than PHP. So what? 300 CVs for JS internship is the norm. It is *not* about how many jobs there are. It's about jobs divide by job applicants.
Indeed show you that there is 800% increase, and you are saying that seniors take juniors jobs? So why there is +1k senior offers (and 4k mid offers)? The whole video is big *confirmation bias*.
It's remind me when i was learning php in 2013.. my friends told me that php is dead.. but now in 2021 I'm still using it.. 😂
Do you see that being the case in 10 years?
I think no.. at least in my country 😀 php is still preferred by companies and developers to build web apps. My friends, like it or not now also learning php because there are still high demand for laravel and wordpress developer 😀
Here in Germany there are lots of job offers for php
The langage is still cripled with stupid anti-pattern designs despite all the efforts to improve it. They've been good changes, but when you look at it they're essentially critical improvement that prevent the langage to get definitively into oblivion.
As a software ingeneer who discovered it 2 years ago, i can tell there's so much weird things you HAVE to know, that the langage really seem to work against you when you're trying to produce reliable code.
As other said, also, bad habits in the community is staple and a real nightmare.
And last, when you look at comments in the documentation, every single piece is about micro optimization.
BUT, it just works if you know what you're doing.
so which language should i learn?
PHP gets the job done.
Great video, I really like that you back up everything said with facts, rather then just expressing your oppinion.
I appreciate that!
@@realchrishawkes May I ask why you took down the video? You changed your mind :)
Is PHP still relevant?
Yes.
Is it the future of programming?
Probably not.
Statement also works for Perl, Java, COBOL, etc...
In my experience, at least 50% of those "PHP Developer" jobs are really glorified WordPress Admin jobs. These are also usually contract/temp jobs and subject to being outsourced. Maybe that is just my area though (med/large midwest USA city).
I would stay away, or at least get good at something complementary, like JS + React/Vue/Angular to have something to fall back on. I think PHP will be around forever but become increasingly niche.
Php is easy to get started with so it has a lot of mediocre devs in 3rd world countries and easy to outsource
Dying language for sure but a lot of companies still use CMS which are built on php.
PHP actually is not a dying language. it is very much in demand and is getting better and better.
I'm 47, want to get out of trucking, and want to freelance from home. Would php be a good choice for a programming noob?
Not in a vacuum. Start with something less niche, python or javascript for example. Once you know one of those PHP will not only make more sense, but be more valuable.
you can give it a try, the whole "learning to code" thing is like saying Truckers should now finish med school or engineering. Programming is not for everyone. Give it a try and see if you like it. You do need to be an intellectual/nerd type to really compete in the market though. The other people who will be applying for jobs are true nerds.
It depends on your client's need and the job market.
With javascript you can do front and back, kill 2 birds with one stone, huge community.
@@johnames6430 I began learning Basic in 1984 in elementary school but picked up a pair of drumsticks that same summer and music won my soul's attention. I've been learning Python the last couple of months and have a couple of friends who work in IT.
I use php since the 90's. Built a lot of web apps around it, and they still all run like a charm. When it's good, don't change it ;-)
Nice analysis, don't know if knowing PHP is a good skill for getting employed but it does provide important knowledge not that Perl doesn't. After listening to that long Rasmus talk it seems PHP got it right but Perl no. Impressed with Rasmus Lerdorf's knowledge, humility, and humanity. I agree with Vjori Hoxha.
it dosent matter php is the best in what it dose the best
In Aug 2019, PHP was used as the server side language used by 78% of websites. So it's obviously relevant, even though, yes, it's not the future. My college decided to stop teaching it in their web programming class, which is probably the right move.
What do they teach in PHP's place ?
@@IJaba27 Node, express.js. That said we're more expected to understand the general concepts behind these tools rather than the specifics (like we spent a day on express and that was it), and for our final project we can use whatever we want to.
I don't love it, but I've been forced to learn it because smaller companies rely on wordpress and php. I would love to afford groceries and rent, so...
wow, this is the Exact question i been grappling with for the past week or more, since i am about to reenter software development after a decade; am not interested in 9am to 12pm job due to my age and i have heard for freelancing market PHP is rising up in demand.
btw, if you are a veteran too , skip at 05:20 to avoid "History".
its good video. the Covid scam has opened more doors for freelancers and freedom lovers like me.
:-)
Are wordpress, drupal, moodle and laravel still relevant? Ask any organisation or university that and they will give you your answer.
I just don't understand videos like this one... I get click baiting people into watching a video with a title such as this one, but to be honest, click baiting is ruining the internet completely these days and I hope it will die sooner rather than later... Is PHP still relevant... really? Even PASCAL is still relevant... What are people with websites built in PHP supposed to do without PHP? Just dump all of their website files into some kind of a converter that would instead convert the code into Python or some other language? Yes, that's not possible, hence PHP is always going to be relevant, as long as there are websites using it that exist. Same goes for any other language out there and topics like this one are completely unnecessary
It's not that useless. The trend is there and it's a sign that in the following years many website remakes will be made in a different language. So, regardless of experience, this is a good sign (and time) that you should (also) learn something else.
Seems like the sole purpose of PHP bashing is click bait.
I’m still salty that WordPress was built in PHP... I’m a web dev that still struggles to customize my own WordPress website 😂
You sure you're a dev then? xD What are you customizing that's so hard? :D
I believe any reduction in the “popularity” of PHP is attributed to the availability of more and better plugins. There is just less custom coding necessary to satisfy the marketplace.
I think security issues should be addressed by the framework rather than the language.
Every study I’ve seen shows PHP as being much more performant than newcomer interpreted languages (much of which may be attributable to those ‘$’ variable prefixes).
If I had to pick a successor to PHP it would probably be Node.js. It seems to accomplish an awful lot with fewer lines of code.
PS> And MVC and ORM are software design patterns that keep mediocre software devs mediocre.
is it bad that i just started studying php ??? Should i stop and learn other language 🙄
Learn what your local job market wants mostly
Ya if you have ur time it's better to learn languages other than php
Don't listen to anyone who says php is obsolete or it will go away. Not every php jobs is going to be a glorified "Wordpress admin" job. There are still jobs out there that requires knowing actual software engineering skills in php (modern php 7, OOP design patterns, performan, best practices, etc.) - this positions are hard to fill because most people who 'know' php only know wordpress or basic Laravel from youtube tutorials. Listening to youtube videos with titles like "Is X language is still relevant" or "Why X is a dying language" will only demotivated and discourage your learning process.
@@vjorihoxha1115 im in Indonesia, and php is still the most used and required language here, but i dont know for how long
@@pkrockin3923 thanks man, cause im a student and just started studying php with laravel like 2 years ago
Very much relevant. There is Laravel. Plus, the newer version of php is getting better and better. I just wish php was more scalable to compete with Python in terms of scalability.
Perl and PHP reminds me of AT&T x86 assembly but props to it being one of the first. I just don't like the syntax but that is juts an opinion no attack on the languages.
I had to Google "AT&T x86 assembly"
@@timothykeith1367 it is a syntax most are familiar with the Intel syntax when looking at it rather than AT&T, anyway the point was it is not fun :)
I think with time we may see an increase in PHP. It's heavily routed in by now and with laravel and symfony (which I love) it's opened up the love again for PHP. I hope so anyway lol.
Interesting vid though 👍
PHP is relevant, but will it get you a job? It "can," but not necessarily in the conventional manner. Most of the available positions are not promoted through the most popular channels. It will definitely get you a project and some income. I think PHP gives web developers a sort of freedom from the "establishment," in the same way JavaScript used to on the client side. I believe the rise in cloud platforms has caused more small business and independents to use more enterprise-oriented technology.
It's defiantly declining no doubt about it, but there's still plenty of jobs available.
I start working with PHP just 2 years ago and then search for the better mantanied and most used framework: Laravel
The only thing i hate PHP is it’s hard to debug, i’m so used to “console.log” of JS.
Though i’m still trying hard to learn PHP esp. Laravel since i bought a month of Laracast. I’m a VueJS dev and want to try Laravel
Use xdebug in combination with a good editor like phpstorm, makes console.log look like a joke 😉 It's not easy to set up but really pays dividends when you do. There are docker containers with apache php and xdebug set up for you for remote debugging. I've fixed bugs in hours with xdebug when other devs used only logging to debug taking days and nights without finding the cause. You can look into variables, step through and into code, set break points with expressions, walk through the call stack etc. There's even a profiler so you can hunt down performance bottlenecks and memory leaks without having to log microsecond times and memory usages contaminating your code.
I'm a PHP developer and couldn't imagine life without PHPStorm. Don't understand why many persist with a bog standard text editor and var_dump/print_r all over the code. A proper IDE gives so much more power
@@simonpreston nice thanks for this!
echo "";
var_dump($stuff);
Laravel have dd().
If you start php directly from terminal with:
php -S localhost:8888
you can error_log() whatever you want into terminal...
Yes. Wordpress sucks but is popular. You need expensive hosting if you have any real level of traffic.
Wordpress runs 33% of all websites.
Hey man can you just go write it in Python? Thanks.
Yes.
Im not sure what OLD about PHP... PHP was created in the 1990s... same applies to Python... and Ruby... soooo whats the difference in terms of age??
C and C++ and JAVA are NOT going away anytime soon... PHP is very C/C++ like... as is JAVA... as is JavaScript... Python is kind of C like but not really... and Ruby is JAPANESE... and NOT C like at all...
PHP does a GREAT job for what it was built for... Web development with RUBY sucks... and it also sucks with PYTHON... You can do web development with C++ and the apps will be super fast, but the development process is going to be LONG and the experience is going to be horrible...
Still C++ is used A LOT for heavy data processing in financial companies and trading companies... also used to build graphics engines like Unreal... so thats going away...
JAVA is still used a LOT in banks, and other financial companies... also is used to build APIs... also is used to create cross-platform engines like WebGL and such...
What is Python used for in web development??? Building APIs... thats pretty much it... yes, Python is used in academia a LOT... specifically to work with statistical data... it pairs well with R... but anytime you need to do any kind of HEAVY data processing for high energy physics and simulation... C/C++/ and sometimes JAVA are used...
Personally, i would say that PYTHON is todays PERL... cant really be compared with PHP... different languages build for different purposes... its like comparing different kinds of utensils for consuming different types of food...
If you are eating rice, which one is better: a spoon, a fork or chop sticks??? The answer is IT DEPENDS who you ask... all of them get the job done... And yet the SPOON is the most efficient one... and if you ask the Japanese they will tell you that Chop Sticks are the best...
Apply the same options to eating mashed potatoes... im not sure how many people will eat Mashed potatoes with Chop sticks given the other options... or if you were eating french fries with a spoon...that would be super annoying... same applies to languages...
I remmeber have watched a similar video like this in 2015 xD
What a silly click bait question. Just look at the php ecosystem. On the job market I see a lot of junior and senior php coders wanted. I hardly see any python, ruby, etc. coder wanted. LoL - how many websites are made with python ?
Netflix, Instagram, Google...
@@rogertunnell5764 LoL .... how many sites are made with php ?
i used laravrl before and move to dotnet core..
everyone should try it out.
.net rock hard currently..
Really? I know few people who has done exactly he opposite, including myself. I'm not saying .net is a bad framework but Laravel is much better.
@@udyhome1639 try it out and you will know why..
C# is on rising trend now..
Visual Studio intellisense and C# strong type language is more suitable for enterprise use.
believe it or not if u learn django or flask here u never get a job 99% of web jobs are php laravel LOL
Here in France PHP is the king.
I still enjoy php , but prefer go
Rook jy?
PHP will die when Javascript does...exactly.
node js the best
That's what I'm using for www.codehawke.com
PHP Java are like zombies they do not die even being dead. PHP just getting better but learn language learn fundamentals solve problems I believe you can code in most language. Php most hated language ever
Magento is on PHP. I am a Magento 2 developer.
hmm, well WordPRess runs 1/3 of all websites on the Internet and is written in PHP
Almost every hosting company uses WHMCS as their billing system, which is written in PHP
Pretty much all the most popular and widely used web apps are written in PHP.
So i'd say it is a very silly question.
So let’s reverse this video argument as a thought experiment.
should you use python? Well I used it along time ago did not like it. Present statistics that don’t favor the language. So maybe learn something else. Oh and also learn how to code php with my video course.
Im doing a code generator for php.
I hope is NOT!
I personally hate PHP because it is a language that was created out of necessity. It was never well organized or planned to become an actual programming language. The original purpose of PHP was to add dynamic variables into HTML files, so $myTitle. It was simply a templating tool (Notice the $ symbole).
With time people started adding functions, classes, namespaces, ... making it an actual programming language. The issue now, is that it looks like a Frankenstein monster without any identity of its own. The $ symbole is now veey annoying: Why $someVariable, when i can do someVariable. The decision to use "->" instead of just ".", and all these "array_shift()", "array_transform()", ... functions maks programming painful.
Example, lets say you want to filter an array, whose values multiplied by 2 are divisible by 3.
In JS/TS. [1, 2, 3].map(v => v*2).filter(v => v % 3; );.
In PHP: $result = array_transform([1, 2, 3], static function(int $value) { return $value * 2; }).
$temp = array_filter($result, static function(int $value) { return $value % 3; }).
There is a gotcha in the PHP version because $temp will be [null, null, 6]. You have to be careful if you want to iterate through $temp.
Let's not forget the inconsistencies in the language, the lack of meaningful concurrency, the lack of an actual strict type system, like precising that the user should provide an array of int. Only one class per file, low performance compared to JS, ugly backward compatibility, lack of libraries, lazy and beginner-full community, lack of versatibility (create desktop and android app with electron and Js, but not with PHP for example), ... .
The original author of PHP never thought it would get popular. The language became a hit because there was nothing better at the time. Now with Golang, Js/Ts with Node, Rust, Python, C++, C, Scala, ... there is almost no reason to use PHP. Unfortunately some legacy projects ars still writing in it.
PHP is for the web only, that it's drawback. But at least 60 percent of the web is PHP, that is a billion websites or close. And please stop sh*tting on languages. If you don't like it - create a new one, please. Thanks 😊
Because most of commentator in here are php dev so no wonder they defend their programming language even is has inconsistent and horrible thing on it. PHP is just product of trend on the past, and when other language replace its place, php dev yelling "is only trend, not follow it", is sooo ironic.
In my opinion php is very archaic, prone to errors and hard to debug. I hate it!
Just came here to watch people getting triggered 🤣. PHP sucks though.
Im doing a code generator for php.