How to Transpose - a guide for Saxophones
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- Опубліковано 7 лис 2016
- #bettersax #saxophone #saxophonelessons
Jay Metcalf explains how to transpose on the saxophone.
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I've never had the Clock Analogy explain Transposition. I'll be using this when I teach transposition one day! This is absolutely incredible.
As a piano player I just imagine the minor 3rd on the piano.
OMG I’ve been trying to get this for like 3 years and finally get it!! Thanks!!
oh lawd. this is the video i've searched for, for two months. Thaks dude, very helpful for writing my own stuff, cross piano and tenor sax ^^
Also worth mentioning is that often you can read Bass clef as treble clef on e-flat instruments for a quick and dirty transposition. Trombone music is easy to transpose onto Bari for instance. Sharps generally should be read as naturals but just remember you still need to know the key you should be in.
Crystal clear ! I am a guitar player and for Bb instruments and Eb instruments I can instantly convert keys for the horn players by going up 2 frets or down 3 frets, respectively.
Hi Jay, looks like you have a typo in your clock diagram. It shows tenor+soprano in both the red and blue sections vs alto+bari in the blue. Wonderful channel. Thank you Jay!
saw that too
As a percussionist, this is mad confusing
I feel you dude. Just started playing sax after years of drums, first I thought I made awesome progress for learning how to read sheet music now I learn that most of the time I'll have to transpose. Who cam up with this madness? XD
fr who the fuck thought of this shit
great tips and so easy to remind. Thanks a lot
Best sax walk through video ever
Thank you so much, I just got into saxophone and this was really helpful
Brilliant that’s sorted my question, thanks for sharing this.
Very well explained.
i had to make Bb key chart and I was so confused and now so clear!! thank you!!!
This has been my biggest question!! thank you so much!!
very clear, and thanks to you!
Thank you for the video. I'm hoping to transcribe a song from piano to tenor sax for a piece of art that will be used as a gift. But I am a novice at reading music. Your video gave me a little more clarity. I hope I do this correctly.
Amazing tutorial I finally get it
OMG 😯 so simply and well explained . Thanks alot 👍👏👏
Thank you, very helpful video
ᴛʜɪs ɪs sᴏ ʜᴇʟᴘғᴜʟ!! ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs!!
One problem on 3:42 both of them said tenor and soprano
Good catch
Wow! This is so helpful
Thank you very much for this
Thanks a lot, couldn't be clearer ! :)
I never understood what the hell transposing meant until you explained it. Every other person I've found is so deep in the music theory sauce that the explanation just didn't make sense to me.
That clock tool is actually amazing! It's great to have a quick and mechanical way of knowing what you have to do
this helped alot
Great, I'm glad it helped.
the man! thank you
thanks for your information :)
thank you so much, this video helped a lot! :)
Thank you!
Really helpful
I’m glad it helped.
Thank you😊
This is my first time learning alto sax. I will rename the hands position based on the concert settting forget about this silly transpose system. and a person that gives me a musical sheet must respect my concert setting.
The note heard on an Alto Saxophone when you play a written C5 ( written in Alto Saxophone stave) is actually 9 semitones lower. This corresponds to a written Concert Pitch of Eb 4. The method you describe is useful for transposition to Key purposes only. Hence you play A notes for the relative pitches of Concert Pitch C. Or transpose the whole key to Key of A as written out on the Alto Saxophone Stave. To play an actual concert Pitch of C5 as written you would have to play the Alto Saxophone written pitch of A5. This corresponds with actual Concert pitch of the note C5. Although most Alto saxophones have a lowest note of Bb ( written pitch for Saxophone) the actual concert pitch of a normal Alto saxophone is Db 3 in Concert pitch and the highest Concert pitch note is an A 5 which corresponds to a high F# 6 in Alto Saxophone written pitch.
For key transposing I found your video explanation very useful but to transpose music written in concert pitch to the Alto Saxophone I think maybe you might need to be a bit more careful.
If you wish to play a middle C in Concert pitch (C4). Then you would have to play A4 written on the Alto Saxophone Stave.😮
You're amazing
This means that if we find somewhere notes for guitar or piano, we can play them on the sax with this transposing?
Maro, yes. Saxophone players often have to read concert key sheet music and transpose in their head. This is hard at first, but you get better with practice...
@@bettersax but why was this invented this way? why not write the notes that you hear? (which they are) i can not understand how a note could be another one. i mean, you also cant say: so in my "artsystem" this is blue, if its red... blows my mind. sry for my negative emotions ^^
@@corviraptor very goog tesching
@@bettersax yes, it is hard...
@@nicomelgares I'm just stepping into this boat 😭 lol I feel the same way!
Amaaaazingggg
To have the same pitch you should play a high F# on your alto if you want to play concert A. That means a major sixth higher.
If you transpose a minor third lower then your note sounds an octave lower. So would not have the same pitch as the concert A note but you would be one octave lower. This is important if you arrange pieces for several instruments including alto saxophones.
Alex, you are correct. It's easier to think in terms of minor third and major second when transposing in real time rather than 6ths and 9ths. That's why saxophone players think that way.
Thanks a lot for your comment. I was thinking about this.. Everbody everywhere writes and shows that it's a minor third lower, which I was quite sure was wrong, but with all the wrong information out there.. Thanks for confirming! :)
Thanks
This is helpful
Thanks
Great video . . Fix the Blue box typo to Eb alto - Bari Sax. Very well done. Thx
Fuck yea bro, wonderfully simple explanation. One ive been searching for for a month or so and no ones been able to put it in terms like this, so thank you brotha
This is good
Thanks, I hope you have a better understanding now.
I was wondering why my tuners were saying a different note than the one I was playing on my sax!
Eventually I *might* start learning to read and play transposed, but I've just been treating the alto sax as a concert pitch instrument so far - if I see a 'C', I play a 'C'... even if the fingering chart and other sax players tell me its an 'A'. The only time this matters, though, is when reading articles or watching videos (BetterSax, Doctor Wally, etc.) and having to translate the terminology (getting that when you guys are talking about the 'G#' key, that you're talking about the B-Natural key, etc. etc..). I suspect a lot of self taught beginners are like me and think and play in concert pitch first, or exclusively. As a bonus, I didn't even have to learn the fingerings for sax from scratch since I'd previously taught myself Bb clarinet fingerings... also in concert pitch... and (in concert pitch) the Bb clarinet's first register has the same fingerings as the Eb sax (at least as far up as the sax's first register goes). For the clarinet, I'd actually cut apart a fingering chart from a student book from the thrift-store, and glued it back together with the correct concert pitch labels where they should be -- I found it odd then and now that there's no .PDF anywhere online with concert pitch fingerings for clarinet or sax.
As a pianist I'll be doing the same I think
The clock diagram is really cool. I’ll have to print it and hang everywhere I look so I can remind myself.
Also, does this relates to the circle of 5ths or 4ths ? I ask because I still not dig into that subject yet.
We need to ask Xerox to make a photocopier that automatically transposes sheet music to any desired instrument while making copies :-)
funny.
There is heaps of software programs out there that transpose for you, pretty much the same concept..
For me, for Alto, it's easier for my brain to transpose a 6th up ( and play it an octave lower ) for I've memorized my intervals upward.
Thank you so much! How hard I tried to find this! I got it know finally...
Like and save. 😬 big help thank you.
Thanks bro, if y’all ever heard the boondocks outro, it hard enough to be findin that shit for alto, but for tenor bruh...
I hope you found it man lol
the question that I have and I don't seem to find someone talking about is to what key should i transpose a song to be more practical for an alto to play it? because some songs are almost impossible to play on there original key or they would sound weird, too low or too high or very difficult with the way the notes are laid out on the alto sax
Hey i just bought my alto and start to play :) I have a little question when it comes to solo - just for understanding.
From my guitar i know i can solo with a GMaj pentatonic to a Backing Track in the Key of GMaj.
So on my alto i have to use the EMaj Pentatonic to be in tune with the same backing track, right?
That's correct. Just memorize either your minor third down intervals, and/or your 6th up intervals. A = F# Bb = G D = B C = A, etc
How I do it is I read the music as SCALE DEGREES and then play in the transposed key.
I have been playing Alto since high school but now I am interested in learning Tenor. Which instrument do you prefer playing with a piano or jazz guitar? Do you have a preference of which sax is better than the other?
I started on tenor and personally i dont like playing it i love alto I consider myself a alto player but love to hear tenor played by other players its all a personal preference
Hey :) thank you for the great explanation.
I was jamming on my alto with a good friend of mine with his guitar but we had problems to match the key. He played in Amaj. Normally i think id have to play the f# Pentatonic but it didnt work. But playing the f Pentatonic worked well for us.
Is it possible that i play the notes a bit wrong/ sharp? Im still a beginner :/
You should be in F# if your friend is in A.
Hi, I am a newb, re-learning from when I was a kid. So that I understand more clearly regarding transposing from a concert key instrument, is then the only key that is transposed on my alto sax for example, would be the 'C' on the sax? This is where I get confused because I'm not clear if I am to change/transpose every note in the concert key music/song --I'm thinking no. I would need to transpose the entire concert key song/music. I'm grateful for your tutelage and wishing you a fabulous day, cheers!
So, this would mean a Bb tenor would be able to read Ab concert parts as is?
Hi, do you have some basic music lessons to explain the theory from scratch?
Funny just started my course having viewed the video,,, i would say its common practice to crawl before you walk,, many people think just to by an instrument go home get the music out and hay presto,,,to start you'll need to align the first objective.
(1) The instrument
(2) dont start fingering but get to know the instrument or instruments your working with.
(3) set a goal of learning once set don't break the mould.
(4) be consistent and concise but play so, so slow and build steps towards the objective.
(5) don't become frustrated agitated you wouldn't do this when peeling potatoes for the sunday roast.
(6) before any training a brisk walk or jog etc get your mind set.
(7)many people can't avoid distraction and become frustrated and tense but hay it's no good learning with a parrot in the room.
(8) find a quiet location chill get fócas before you start.
(9) transposing is easey,,, example you wouldn't run out in the street rant at a copper without being quick to think your message of intent,,its the same with your instrument,,,you wouldn't play a note without knowing what you want it to say.
LEFT HAND RIGHT HAND
No your A-B-C-D-E-F-G no your instrument no your low and high
No 1/4 - 1/2 - 3/4 ETC
I use a formula on piano
(C) 1231231231231235
Forward - CEGCEGCEGCEGCEG
5321321321321321
Backward. CGECGECGECGECEG
Dont forget as you go forward you must come back when doing so rember the hand cross over and the return flip semi circle wrist motion.
Use this formula to attain understanding of transposing
LEFT HAND RIGHT HAND
Flow in route of majour and Minor Cords / Piano.
Once understood flip to your chosen Saxophone and apply by transposing , all transposing means is conversion for corect notation application.
(10)
Dont become emotional frustrated or become depressed this leads to giving up the will to achieve and become a success,,, the theory of learning is your creative success,,,nothing in this, world can be achived without education theory , practice theory peactice the rule of thumb.
I expect somebody has already pointed this out but the labelling of the chart starting at 2:43 is incorrect. The blue tile should read as "Alto and Baritone".
Saxophones come in various Keys & the C Tenor Sax is really common these days
This is actually starting to “sink in” I have no trouble finding the brake instrument key going up in my head pretty fast but going down 3steps quickly my brain just freezes up! That chart helps!! How do we train ourselves to do this quickly ! Maybe just pure memorization from knowing the scales so well ?!?! Certainly you can’t be on stage counting in your head like that 🤣🤣😍
B flat instrument
Not
Brake instrument
Jeez!!!!!
Can’t find a way to edit my original post on UA-cam when I’m on my phone!!!
Caveat.....I'm no expert but I've been thinking this through. Scale work helps which then helps you with notes within a key and key signature. Applying this understanding to degree movements on a staff would then actually aid you in reading from concert while transposed. You can simply transpose a piece directly on a score in advance of playing. Imagine this live setting which Mr. Metcalfe poses where you transpose on the fly and play.. Remember, as long as you are in key while improvising you won't be hitting dissonant notes but you'll be anticipating movements to help with applying intervalic changes.
How I figure out Concert to Eb is, the relative minor, which becomes major, for instance, Key of A concert, becomes F# ( 6 Sharps) on the alto or Bari. (watch out for accidentals lol )
so when i play a sax in concert (key of C) i dont need to transpose ? even if i play a song in G like it the example ?
yes cause your in tune of Bb depending on your sax..or Eb so you are either..so if it is in concert C, your notes for tenor will be up 1 whole step. so say A will go to B when in concert C. i trashed some of what he said...so i could get the base concept..of Tenor go up 1 whole step...
Sorry I know nothing about music theory, but if it is in a minor key will it stay a minor after the transposition?
I am currently about 3 years into my tenor sax and I play standards by ear only because I have a full time job and I don't play with others due to living and working on a farm away from the city. now that I'm getting better at my time management (a necessity of taking on an online degree with a full-time job), I find that I can regularly fit in about half an hour a day to practice the sax instead of just playing sax on the weekends. Transcription has been preventing me from learning Bebop and pop songs (I'm understanding the theory of enclosures, approach notes etc) but I've been playing abit of this stuff by ear without naming the notes for about a year now. the only other players I meet play either the guitar or the keyboard so I'm like OK here's the chords to the song...what are the chord tones and intervals. But then I've got to transpose? Forget it! I'm the only Tenor sax player I've ever known. I am learning quickly by naming the fingering by the sound I hear and associate the fingering to only that note.no transposing needed. no one but me is ever going to think about the name of my fingering when we are playing. now, I understand that this is an unusual way to learn the tenor and I know that it has it's problems but I think transposing is a problem in and of itsself if you only intend on playing Tenor or Soprano saxophone. I don't like alto.no offense. I have to 'untranspose' tenor sheet music on the rare occasion that I use it but that's about the only problem I have. If I play with others I will talk about the chords with a guitar or keyboard player and not mentally have to transpose chords midconversation. However, If I have a conversation with another Tenor sax player in the future I think we will not be able to share ideas unless they can untranspose what I say to them.
If anyone thinks I'm creating a big brick wall in the near future that will prevent me from exploring the tenor then please let me know but I see the pros far out way the cons by doing it my way. Does anyone else think it's ok for me to create my own learning path in this way?
If it is Bbmin7 what key do I play in
So I have a dilemma sir.. if I get a C concert "GC Conn" how do I get benefit from your videos when the music is probably either in Alto or Tenor? Is it a good choice to go for a C concert and with that brand? The reason I wanted to get that is because I already have tons of guitar and piano notes I could use as a C melody. Im just curious is your lessons are also transposable to C so I can still practice the licks on your "C Transposed" tracks. Thank you.
I meant CG Conn C Melody sorry
@@3dwardcpr-cellphonerecordi537 Someone correct me if I'm wrong -- but could you reverse directions?
I just started learning to do this. I wrote every note in concert key on flash cards and the corresponding notes in Eb on the other side of the cards. So if I flip them over, when I see B (in Eb), I know I'm going in the opposite direction to get D (concert pitch). If I get good enough at this, it stands to reason I could just "read" the notes the same way we would read treble or bass clef.
Maybe there's an easier way to do this, but it seems easier than calculating on the fly...
@@NyanPoptartCat Aside from practice the only easiest way is to print out Mr. Jay Metcalf's pdf on transposing. My personal way is imagining the piano and counting from there.
I just imagine a piano in my head and see the keys of the piano and countdown lol
i am just starting with my saxophones, this is the first time i am hearing this differencies of the notes, well, i am not yet playing in a group and i am actually a bit to lazy to read notes, but if i hear a note, i just play it, so what i am trying to say is actually; if some one is playing c chord on a piano, i will just play it on the sax , and to me that is still a c ,,, should i know all the notes on the saxophone or just be able to find them? if some one would tell me; lets play this in g,, i would just make it a g if that is what i hear, ;why so difficult? all this thinking i just skip
I recommend you learn the real names of the notes. I know it seems like extra work for no reason, but you will be glad you did down the road. There's a lot of work and things to learn if you want to play the saxophone well. Learning the note names is easy.
I did the same as you when I started. I wanted to get straight into playing and improvising so I skipped learning the 'theoretical' notes and just played entirely by ear. I probably made quicker progress to start with but as soon as I wanted to learn ANY musical theory, even just more complex scales or basic useful stuff like the circle of fifths, it was painfully hard to understand any of it in relation to my sax because my understanding of the instrument was out of step with the theory. Now I have gone back to basics and actually learned that stuff, suddenly all the music theory material out there, scales, harmonies, chords and the rest is accessible to me. And I can communicate in the same language as other horn players, too, which is essential if I want to play together with them.
Listen to him, he's right. I don't know about "easy" tho. Still struggle with it on at least two clefs. I have well over 2 full days using Playground Sessions for piano to learn sheet.
here is a easy basic i remember for reading music. The notes between the lines are . F A C E. and the notes on the lines EGBDF or Every Good Boy Does Fly. then you learn the flats and sharps...how i learned those, i think of someone saying OOOOOOh just as they get stabbed...SHARP, then someone saying ooooH as a girl shoot them down after working up the courage to ask her out, now he is sad...FLAT.
I can understand the mindset behind this and how it might help some with the concept of transposition. The issue I have is that there are not universal fingerings for all instruments. You don't play a C on a bari and get a e flat, you play an e flat on a bari. That fingering may be called something else on a tenor. Saying you play a C on a bari is inaccurate. If you play the correct fingering for C on a bari, you get a C. If you play the correct fingering for an e flat, you get an e flat. Again, I understand the mindset and if it helps folks then more power to it. I would just like it more if the explanation was accurate.
The explanation is perfectly accurate. You should watch the video again. Yea f you want to play the saxophone it is necessary to reference the notes in the same way as all other musicians. Otherwise it will be very confusing for everyone.
@@bettersax I think what would help is adding the word "written". If you play a "written" C on a bari, it will sound an e flat. This is because you need to use different fingers to produce the concert written note depending on what key your instrument is in. When playing with professional groups, it is far more likely your piece will be transposed for your instrument ahead of time and you can simply play the notes as written. Being able to transpose in your head is still a very important skill that everyone should learn. The confusing and inaccurate part is "...notes played on a saxophone will sound different from a note of the SAME NAME played on another instrument such as a piano or guitar". If it sounds different, it isn't the same note and doesn't have the same name. No matter what instrument I am playing, if I am asked to play a C and everyone else plays a C, then all the notes (accounting for octave and temerment) will all sound the same. They will all sound 261.63 Hz or whatever the agreed upon standard will be. The only difference will be the fingering I use to achieve that frequency due to the key my instrument may be in. Please do not misunderstand, I am not trying to be argumentative. The information presented here is valuable. I was simply trying to offer constructive critisism about a minor inaccuracy I thought may be confusing to people of a different mindset.
@@JS-wt8vf Thank you for your sanity. I was looking up articles and then this video JUST to understand why my son (who has played saxophone in school for several years) kept telling my wife (who plays piano professionally) that a C played on his baritone saxophone was an E♭ on her piano (maybe I got that backward as I am only moderately familiar with music). She knew he was wrong, but just figured he was still learning. My son now knows quite a lot about reading and even writing music and he can sight read very quickly. So it struck me as bizarre that he didn't understand that a C on one instrument can never be a note other than C on another instrument. A C is a C once it is in the air, not depending on which instrument plays it. I can play a C on a crystal water glass and it will still be a C.
Virtually every article and video I found on the web falsely said the same thing; that a note played on a saxophone is different than the same note played on non-transposed instruments. I finally understand that all the confusion stems from the fact that somewhere along the line when saxophones were first played, someone started calling certain fingerings C or E♭ or A, when they were actually not those notes.
My question still remains, do saxophone players generally have to have all sheet music transposed into a key other than what they will be playing, or do saxophone players generally transpose sheet music in their heads while they play?
Surely if your playing Alto saxophone and just play a minor 3 rd down then you would be an octave lower than the written (concert) pitch. When arranging I usually think down a minor third and up an octave.
When I download the transposing chart it tell me not secure site to go back ??????
Thomas, Thanks for pointing that out. Had an issue with my hosting server, and it's now fixed. Good to go...
I dont get it - if a youre playing a D on tenor sax, for example, and the note heard is a C.. then youre playing a "C". Notes correspond to frequencies in the vibrations of air molecules that our brains interpret as sound - if we call something a "D", thats just a label that we give to a particular frequency - if that "D" is actually heard as a C, then the frequency must be that of a C, so the note cannot be a D. can someone please explain why we wouldnt just rename the notes on the sax to match the heard notes - what is the point of giving them names difference from what is heard?
I explain this in the video, but the point is for reading sheet music. If we didn't transpose, we would need different clefs for each instrument to keep the majority of the notes we play on the staff.
@@bettersax That makes sense. As long as you know you aren't playing a D if everyone hears a C.
as someone who wants to play the saxo and has perfect pitch... this makes me go crazy
thank you
up two high down three low
🎷
its been years for me...so if the key is A or the starting note is A...and i am transposing then for my tenor id step it up to C or E cause it is 2 notes, or two whole lines on the staff. or if i see the note A i step it up to B.....god its been years to many.
If the key was in A, you would step it up to B on your tenor.
Thanks a lot. There is a mistake in your Saxophone Transposition Chart ;-)
+Stephane Bazart, The mistake has been pointed out many times, but thanks. I'm glad so many viewers are paying such close attention to my videos! ;-)
May I ask what the mistake is? I can't seem to figure it out!
lol, I get those with Playground Sessions for piano (to read better). When it's complicated and new, i cheat and read the letter names.
On occassion they don't match. :)
On at least a few, it takes me 3 or 4 times to blame them and not me, and shoot an email to PS for the poor suckers who are worse players than i am...(great piano learning program, btw, i get nothing for saying that)
@@travenmichaels7229 I think it's where the tenor sax at 3:26 should be G#/Ab, NOT G if you count 3 from the F.
The alto is right, i think
D
@@travenmichaels7229 The chart has a blue square and a red square... they both say the same thing. They both say "Tenor and Soprano Saxophone".
It would have been more helpful to also mention the true transposition. Otherwise, the sopranino and the baritone would sound the same since their parts are written the same. Which of the saxophone actually transpose 2 semitones or one minor third, and which add (or remove) one (or more) octaves?
So its like Schrödingers Instrument, It is both C and E flat.
better sax
The transposing chart is wrong in this please read the text they both say for tenor and soprano. Jay was this a test to see who was paying attention. 😂
in clock diagram, blue should be alto.. thanks anyway
this always annoyed me in school / why in the heck didn't they design the saxophone to use the concert key? seems like unnecessary complication and barriers.
I understand what to do after seeing this video, so thank you, but now my question is: Why??
Forgive me for my ignorance, but If we play the note “C” on an instrument but it “sounds” as an E-Flat, why isn’t that note just called E-flat? Why do we have to pretend that an E-flat major scale is a C major scale when it is not a C major scale? This just seems like music’s version of Common Core Mathematics. I’m not seeing the logic at the moment.
Does it have anything to do with relating the fixed Do solfege system to the key in which the instrument plays? For example: The Eb major scale being dubbed the a major scale solely because it is the easiest fingered scale on the instrument much like C major is easiest on the piano.
@2:40 Shouldn't the blue graphic be labeled "Alto & Baritone?" Currently, both the Blue and Red graphics are labeled "Tenor and Soprano." I have absolutely NO idea what I'm talking about, so if I'm off base, please delete this comment--I don't want to confuse anyone else! Thanks!!
Ok, now let's see if my stupid ass can figure this out now, because I think I get it
Mary had a little lamb little lamb little lamb
So...why don't you just call the C on the saxophone a Bb??
Why didnt they just name them as what they are heard?...
Like +++++
why is it like that? why not making a normal sax?
Bc of the way their shape idk
Wind instruments sound nice but are pretty stupid
musical bureaucracy
that makes no sense??? who invented this. so unecessary... -.- they could just produce higher and lower C-Melody Saxophones or write the actual sounding notes down! but thanks for explaining it. i want to learn this beautiful instrument.
Buy a c melody sax then lol. It IS difficult to make multiple c melody saxs
mate , what is a b c d, the music was created like this , do re mi fa sol la si!!!!
Sara Tuomainen we use the letters in America. I find it much easier than solfege.
It is the international notation. Get used to it bc it is like english. You use it everywhere.