I live in NJ and I was in college during the time of this proposal. One of the main factors that people forget also is that NJ got hit extremely hard in late 2012 by Hurricane Sandy. There was an estimated $30 billion in damages and the public perception of getting money together for a weekend race when there were people still displaced was also a large factor on this never happening.
Also, if I remember that area properly from passing through there enough times on the way to Edgewater, that entire area where the Envue/parking garage is was just one big flat parking lot for the ferry terminal and Arthur's Landing. So there was a LOT of possibility for putting up the pit buildings and whatever other infield construction would be needed
The other aspect was that the 2007-08-09 financial bubble bursting (a.k.a. “The Great Recession”) had hit economies hard and many areas were only recovering at the time of the planning and such for a 211, 2013, or 2013 race; banks were fairly tight with money and the financial markets were leery…
Sports youtubers have very low overhead (compared to say automotive youtubers for example). I imagine tommo charges his sponsors less, and isn't used to big expenses like international flights. Would be good for him to do more videos like this to produce a larger variety of content.
I love the idea of you going to a bunch of defunct or forgotten tracks and showing us what could have been. Plus its a nice opportunity for travel lol. Great vid!
Native New Yorker here, I do agree that this would have been a great thing with the potential to be a great track, if not for racing than for qualifying, like Monaco, if anything the views with Manhattan in the background would have been stunning, shame it never happened, even if it would have turned out to be a clanger of a track, I would have preferred this over Miami.
As an American who lives in New Jersey this would have been an outstanding race. Unfortunately F1 wasn’t popular enough here at the time (no USGP at time and since 2007). Now the sport is popular enough in the US but the area is fully developed with an affluent populace who don’t want their lives disrupted for such an inconvenience. BUT If a marathon can shut down the Verranzano and half Manhattan for most of a day why tf not?
Living in eastern PA, I so wanted this track to become a reality when it was proposed. I used to be a member of a motorcycle riding association (not a gang or MC, but just a bunch of people who liked to ride) and we would do several sightseeing trips a year. The year before they announced the track, we visited the Intrepid, riding to the Port Imperial to take the ferry over. At the time, the area around the port was mostly vacant, so anything was possible in that area. I've not been back to that side of the river since, though I've watched that area get built-up over the years when we'd sail out of the Manhattan Cruise Terminal.
The USGP was already announced for COTA when this was proposed. As for comparing this with a marathon, a Formula 1 race on a temporary street circuit requires a complete repaving of all of the roads the first year, then a track build of 2 to 3 months every year. It also requires the track to be fully closed to traffic for at least 4 days with the area used for the pitlane being closed for about 10 days to allow space for the teams' freight to be stored prior to the teams arriving to set up on the Tuesday before the race.
2:00 - That Envue and the parking garage were not built when the track was originally planned. That entire area was just a very large very flat parking lot. The possibilities for putting up the pit buildings and the like were great. 5:19 - Those buildings were most definitely NOT there in 2011. That area was significantly less developed. 8:30 - Just a couple blocks to the left of that huge set of stairs is Hamilton Park, the site of the Alexander Hamilton - Aaron Burr duel that ended Hamilton's life. Yes, I know different Hamilton than we're used to on this channel, but still a highly famous one. 12:10 - Very good point. Boulevard East is a prime real estate location because of the views that you can obviously see, and it's also a rather well-traveled road, which you can also see from the traffic (which was probably around... 3, 3:30 PM in November judging by the lighting). Those people would effectively be unable to leave their driveways and garages for the entire time the circuit would be set up. This would massively affect the parking in the area. And considering Weehawken is the 15th most densely populated city in the US, at nearly 22K/mi^2 or 8500/km^2, that would be a *nightmare*. For comparison, that's about 1.5 times the population density of London. (Although it's still only half the density of its neighbor to the south, Hoboken.) 14:10 - They were able to justify re-paving the entire road leading to Liberty National Golf Course so the PGA players had a better road to drive in on. They could DEFINITELY justify doing so for a racecourse 15:50 - That is the way the Palisades are. The Palisades are a series of geological cliffs running from Jersey City all the way up to Nyack, New York. In Weehawken, they're about 300 feet high, and further north when they are part of Palisades Interstate Park, they're part of a National Natural Landmark Gorgeous views and the occasional roads winding up along the side of them make for breathtaking drives, in multiple senses of the word. 18:25 - June can be HELLISH in New Jersey. Weehawken's average temperatures are a little cooler than some other cities in the area because of the waterfront location, but June still averages around a high of 80F (27C) with a low of 65F (18C). An abnormally hot early Summer could be hell for the drivers. 19:00 - That is most definitely the sewage treatment plant. 21:50 - Yes, I believe it might be a greater elevation change than Monaco (which is 42m/138 ft). According to what I can find, that one descending road alone is a 46m descent just from the right-hander at the top. COTA is 41m/133ft for example Also, there's a bar in the Port Imperial ferry station that used to be my karaoke place about every month before The Fire Nation Attacked. The circuit is one of those that in and of itself would be an amazing circuit to drive. The problem is everything else around it. If you could put it in a simulator and fix the roads, that would be something that would be so fun to try. But in real life, it would be almost impossible. You saw just how many cars used both Boulevard East (the upper road) and River Road (the lower road). Now imagine shutting down those roads for an extended weekend. The traffic on the parallel roads to the west, which is already naturally heavy, would be insane. Also, you'd pretty much have to shut down the ferry service for the weekend as well, and that is how a number of people in the area get back and forth to their jobs in Manhattan. It would run along a street filled with single- and dual-family housing. It might be great to see but it would end up being a major inconvenience to many people in the city. In the end, it was a wonderful idea in a vacuum, but a horrible idea in real life. OH, and also IIRC, a friend of mine was talking about getting the 3-day tickets to the race and quoted me a price of $325. In the early 2010s. And people were complaining about ticket prices today at some tracks? Naw, we know all about making sports STUPIDLY expensive. That said, thank you for this tour of an area I've known for much of my life, and RIP Tommo's calves.
Thank you for time-stamping and explaining everything I wanted to comment. Taking the ferry from Port Imperial to the Javits Center every year for the past 20+ for the Auto Show I have seen the entire area change. And I can't believe he walked right by the location of the Duel!
I’ve lived here for over 20+ years and you couldn’t have said it best. I remember when the idea was floating around, lots of folks were selling their homes on BLVD East because of the proposal, and surprisingly enough fetched even more money for their properties. I still live here now and the area is highly developed, unfortunately we pay the price in the form of property taxes. Thank you for the breakdown.
Excellent comment but I have to disagree about the weather in June. I don't disagree that it could be 80° but that's not hellish, that's actually pretty nice. July, August and early September are hellish...
My 2012 NY-GP Predictions: Race Winner: Fernando Alonso Banger Drive: Kimi Räikkönen Clanger Drive: Pastor Maldonado Banger Team: Lotus Clanger Team: Sahara Force India But jokes aside. Wonderful video Tommo and it looked you really had fun to explore it :)
I was working in Jersey City at the time and took the afternoon off to watch Seb Vettel drive the proposed track. I have a bunch of photos from the day somewhere.
I get this is probably considerably more costly and effort-intensive than your usual stuff (especially the travel) but I'd love to see more like this if it winds up doing well for you. Really interesting concept Wommo
Ultimately I took the opportunity to do this on top of something else I was already doing - and that'll probably be the case going forward for stuff like this. Can't see it hitting a 6 figure banger sadly.
0:55 you practically dropped that pushpin on my house. I think I would have died and gone to motorsport heaven. but deep down I know the locals would have been insufferable about it for years/months in advance... until race week when every last one of them magically found their Ferrari colors and claimed to support the scuderia since their family was back in It-ly. (Also it's almost certain that any racetrack would have been purpose-built on a tract of land that now is home to several massive Amazon distribution facilities - there was also talk of putting an oval here for a NASCAR event as well)
This might be idealistic but I reckon that instead of building F1 tracks in the middle of cities it's probably best for everyone if they could build some kind of purpose-built facility away from where people live. It's crazy but it just might work.
I used to live in an apartment at the top of the hill! It cool great seeing you walk what was essentially my dog walk circuit and crazy to imagine it could’ve been an F1 circuit. Not a lot of people know that Weehawken has the best view of NYC, I’m glad you enjoyed it. Great vid 👍
I hope one day someone makes a mod for this in Assetto Corsa if not then il have to do it myself one day Vettel even said it reminded him of spa out of all the street circuits this is probably one of the most cool and unique and such a shame this wasn't on the calendar1000 times better than Miami
crazy to see tommo walking around a place i used to frequent. since you asked, NJ in june would be perfect for a grand prix, but if it’s in the afternoon there would be a decent chance of heavy rain randomly. it’s a beautiful place, unlike the rest of jersey, would’ve loved going to this as a track back in the day
@@BwInNewJersey settle brother, i’m from the state. obviously a joke. besides newark airport, that’s no joke (i’m standing on this regardless of the renovations lol)
I love F-1 in the rain but I disagree that it was likely in June. The afternoon thunderstorms are typically in July and August with high heat and humidity. June is usually very nice...
I heard about the Grand Prix on the local news in NJ, but I was more into NASCAR at the time lol. The race would have stuck out a lot, with cars going past people’s doorsteps at 150-200mph, there would’ve been some kickback there if it did take place. But a more serious race that occurred in NY/NJ region was the Meadowlands Grand Prix that took place outside of MetLife Stadium, Indycar was the first to pioneer it there and the circuit was built similar to today’s Miami Grand Prix. My dad told me people loved the racing there until the 90’s when it stopped. I hope if F1 brings a circuit back to the region here, there’s definitely a market here. Also I can’t forget when Formula E brought racing to actual NYC with the Red Hook street circuit and that had a similar layout to this circuit, but that took place in an actual shipping yard, shame that they took that race away to opt for the Portland E-Prix.
I saw an IndyCar race there one year and didn't like it. They just slapped a race together in a big parking lot. It had no character whatsoever and talk about heat!!! You basically got cooked by the sun and the black pavement. It was like sitting in frying pan. There was no shade or cover to even take a break for a bit to cool off for a few minutes. It was brutal. There also wasn't anything to do as there were no restaurants, shops, or anything really. You were trapped in the huge parking lot all day or weekend if you went to every session. It did bring in a good crowd though as it was the only racing in the immediate area. This track would have been great!
Tommo, if you're near long beach you should do a similar video for the long beach grand prix. The local community is very supportive of it and it totally works.
Didn't watch F1 back then, but seems like it'd have been fairly solid for a street track. Cars would've been screaming down towards the hairpin down that hill.
So happy you did this video, Tom. I was eagerly awaiting this circuit during every stage of planning & watched all those promo videos when they debuted, was deeply saddened when it was official that it wouldn't be going through, and legit still frequently think about it to this day... Especially now that, these days in my life, I only live 2 hours from there. Thank you for doing your part to make sure this project isn't just totally memory hole-d
This was a lot of fun. Also, I got to see a part of NY I've never visited. Good job dude! At 22:36 when you say "that was a crazy long bit", the two buildings behind you, wayyyy behind you, are where the turn around hairpin is.
Tommo just here to say this is a genuinely great video. I think its worth sticking with doing similar videos for a while if possibly they might not take off immediately but i think once people actually see one theyd appreciate it. Its just completely different to the normal video format which might make a few people question it. Great stuff though
I live near the track. At the time, I was pretty excited at the idea...but old man me now says hell no. I can't imagine the interruption to daily life a track/race would have caused. Port Imperial is a major commuter hub, let alone all the bus routes and car routes that would have been impacted. As far as a June race goes, it would have been nice, late spring weather with plenty of green and flowers. Next time you are in the USA visit the track that almost was in the 90's outside Washington, DC - near Culpepper, VA in a town called Brandy Station. Same fate, money and community push back. Today, it's an airport :(
Flushing Meadow Park was also supposed to have f1 races years before the gp of America, track traveled around the lake and is similar to Albert park, best part it’s actually in NYC
You should do this w active F1 tracks too. The ones that are open off season to give a more irl experience, which is an angle we don’t rly get at those speeds
Great video, really enjoyed the change of pace! For what it's worth, I consider what you do looking into business side of sponsors and team ownership/dynamics (like the Mission Winnow video) to be journalistic.
I miss Speed Channel period! We had it good with channel. I'm surprised that with the increased popularity of racing someone hasn't brought it back. There is the F-1 Channel on Pluto that runs 24/7 but I have no idea if it's doing any good numbers or not.
@@srfnsurfer 😄Yeah I do the same thing with it. Don't know if you're into any Sprint Cars or World of Outlaws but Dirtvison has a channel where they show old ( a month or 2 back) races that I'll throw on for background noise as well.
My cousin was fresh out of college when this started up, and he spent the first few years of his career assigned to this project at an engineering firm doing site surveys. It was amusing because he stayed assigned to the project when it became dormant, and years afterwards. He eventually moved on, but he was probably one of a few people who actually worked on it, even if it was outside with a stick measuring elevation.
As an American thinking back to 2011, I do remember this track proposal. I think there were a number of factors that lead to its failure. There weren’t many younger F1 fans then (pre-DTS) and a lot of older fans had sworn off F1 after the Indy debacle on ‘05 or whatever that was. You’re right, there was also a lot of frustration amongst locals in Ny/NJ over the location. Money-wise, I think they could come up with the money now, but this was also still only a few years post-recession, so it was harder then. There were a lot of environmental groups against it too.
Yeah absolutely, it does make sense why it didn't happen. I can't imagine we'd have got more than a few years out of it to be honest. We could end up saying the same about Vegas in time.
Funny becoming a new F1 fan and my old work area was apparently gonna house a track before … huh . You learn something new everyday ! 🎉 great informative video 10/10 !
I live in New Jersey. The right time to do the race would be around Canada and Miami. Right now it around 45 degrees and two days ago it was snowing. Would have to be before Halloween.
I was watching F1 in the US in 2011 and I specifically remember the Austin track getting all the hype. Almost every race sky sports F1 via IPTV or whoever was broadcasting on Direct TV was always showing updates on the building of the Austin track. The New Jersey track was not even being mentioned until after the success of COTA in 2012.
As a native staten islander I had no idea we were considered to have an f1 gran prix. That would’ve been incredible. A shame it didn’t happen here! Great video overall, hope you enjoyed the city mate
I use the ferry terminal at the finish line everyday to commute into the city but there are many normal shops, houses, and low income housing. Also the disruption to commuters and local traffic would have caused great pushback.
I’m from Jersey, and I remember the very beginning when this was proposed (I was like 8 years old). It put so much interest into the sport for me thinking I was gonna have a race in my backyard
American here. I only started following F1 in 2012, but it’s no surprise they couldn’t get funding at the time. Back then I had never heard anybody talk about F1. Like really nobody. I knew who Michael Schumacher was but that’s it.
18:16 also re: June weather - it's essentially the best weather time of year to hold a race in this area. Montreal is about a 7 hour drive due north, and they hold the Canadian GP then for the ideal weather, though it's much warmer in NYC than Montreal at any given time. So there's almost no risk of a cold race a la Vegas, but it's not nearly as hot and humid as the city gets in July/August (I mean, it's no Singapore or Doha, but it can get dangerously hot at times). Though much less of a concern than Miami, having the race before hurricane season really kicks off in late summer minimizes the risk of a huge storm hitting at that time too.
I live in Eastern PA and go to the Canadian GP nearly every year. There's not much difference in the temperature in June, maybe 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit at most. It's the winter where the temperature is a 15 to 20 degrees colder.
Thats not an F1 tracks- it's a circa 2000 CART track (reminds me of Vancouver, Surfers Paradise street circuits) only wider, faster and with elevation change)
So im semi local to this area and ive been to that garage and port a few times. Ive known about this but never put it into context like this. Really fun
That's such a beautiful day, and a beautiful part of a city of what could've been an F1 track! The track's... geography? feels somewhat similar to Monaco just like what you said, and probably Macau as well, another famous street circuit! Pretty interesting that these three locations have that similar element of the sea and the mountains/hills about it. Even the hilly part on this feels similar to Macau, where it's just a wee bit twisty but still pretty high speed. Honestly I love the Macau circuit whenever I played the sim, has a great blend of challenging twisty parts at the top of the hill and then the famous long straight that still offers great overtaking opportunities, which is kinda similar to this! Love the great work on this bit of journalism mate!
I'm from the southern part of New Jersey, and there was not even a tenth of the interest there is now for F1. Back then, we weren't even the on the #1 sports channel, ESPN, like we are now, and using BBC's feed. We had just the international feed and remote commentary. Tommo, how much time did it actually take you to walk the track? Obviously, you would have stopped for views, but do you recall the time off the ferry and the time of sunset? I actually recall that the road down hill with the sewage plant at the end to the hairpin was actual paved to remove the camber back then. The US loves camber on the residential roads for drainage. Definitely not compatible for this generation of ground effect. I think if the car was positioned on the crest of the camber, today's car is absolutely scraping the tunnels of the underside. Epic Tommo thumbnail.
June would definitely be the optimal time for a GP. The warm weather would have been in full effect without it being late enough into the summer to get to the 90-100+ degree range. It would have been sitting around 70-80 degrees most of the time
Back in 2005, I used to drive the section between T6 and T15 every day. I wasn't even into F1 then, but I still thought it'd make a cool track. Especially the downhill part.
I cannot believe Tommo was in NJ. If I was walking down the block in weehawken and saw Tommo I would think someone slipped me drugs 😂. WHAT IS HE DOING HERE??? Guess I'll have to wait til Austin hopefully to see you in person!
As not just a US resident but a nearby one (Philadelphia), both of which things were true back in 2011 (and for longer): your musings starting around 11:24 are precisely why I don't think a track in any major US city is feasible, regardless of whether they're able to raise the money. The US loves cars… for commuting. That's why the "Austin" track is way the hell out of town, and why folks who actually live and work in Vegas are so, justifiably, upset about the disruptions to the only business that town does. Which is unfortunate, because my best experiences attending a race in person have been in Montréal and Mexico City, where you can get directly to the track on a train.
Formula E did race in Brooklyn, but in the docks near where the Queen Mary 2 embarks from. That would not really work for F1 because it didn’t have a Paddock (the cars went into a loop with a bunch of big tents for the teams to use.) There is an even older proposal to run a b shaped track around the World Trade Center (this was for Indy Car)… when that failed they raced in the parking lot at the Meadowlands in NJ (very much like the Miami GP).
American F1 fan here. If they were gonna bring F1 back to NY I wish they would do it in Watkins Glen like they used to. But they won't because there aren't enough tourist trips and big name businesses in Watkins Glen that cater to the super rich.
Back in 2011 I was excited for this track. It's a rare type of street circuit that looks like an actual racing track. Shame it never got off the ground.
I wish you would have also been able to look at the Gran Turismo 4 track. I loved driving that! I think that and Seattle were my favorite city tracks from the games.
One correction Tommo! When you come off the ferry, you're in West New York, NJ. Hope you enjoyed our city and towns. I drive the would be circuit every day!
As an NYC local who has visited that area plenty - you're just south of Edgewater NJ for the majority of this video - and who became an F1 fan in the Barrichello/Stewart-Ford days, another potential nail in the coffin was local interest. It wasn't until maybe DTS that conversations started to happen about F1 at my workplace. That said, that part of NJ is a bit of a bear to get to once you're over the George Washington Bridge. Quite a few choke points, methinks from area experience, to make this a feasible successful event, even if this were to be proposed today.
Lovely jubbly video Tommo. One thing I was thinking though is there doesn’t seem to be many possibilities for spectators/grandstands which I guess F1 need for ticket sales. Gotta come to Melbourne soon for the GP 👌🏻
It was nice to hear the Gran Turismo music in the background which got me thinking: If Formula One wanted to race in the Big Apple, couldn't they just use the New York City circuit from GT4? Probably not, but it would be fun.
Based on the architecture and how much that part of New Jersey has grown recently, a lot of those 4- or 5-story apartment buildings (even the old-timey-looking ones) were probably only built within the last 10 years and probably would not have been built if there was a regular grand prix there.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Go to surfshark.com/tommo for 4 extra months of Surfshark at an unbeatable price!
I live in NJ and I was in college during the time of this proposal. One of the main factors that people forget also is that NJ got hit extremely hard in late 2012 by Hurricane Sandy. There was an estimated $30 billion in damages and the public perception of getting money together for a weekend race when there were people still displaced was also a large factor on this never happening.
This is a great bit of local knowledge to add. Thank you for sharing. 🙏
Ah man, that's a great point. The optics would've been absolutely awful.
shite even I forgot about Sandy. still miss the OG seaside pier
Also, if I remember that area properly from passing through there enough times on the way to Edgewater, that entire area where the Envue/parking garage is was just one big flat parking lot for the ferry terminal and Arthur's Landing. So there was a LOT of possibility for putting up the pit buildings and whatever other infield construction would be needed
The other aspect was that the 2007-08-09 financial bubble bursting (a.k.a. “The Great Recession”) had hit economies hard and many areas were only recovering at the time of the planning and such for a 211, 2013, or 2013 race; banks were fairly tight with money and the financial markets were leery…
Tommo unlocked being outside, praise the lord
Tommo on Tour
I liked the casey style shot in front of casey
Outommo
Sports youtubers have very low overhead (compared to say automotive youtubers for example). I imagine tommo charges his sponsors less, and isn't used to big expenses like international flights. Would be good for him to do more videos like this to produce a larger variety of content.
Achievement Unlocked: Touch Grass? 🙃
I love the idea of you going to a bunch of defunct or forgotten tracks and showing us what could have been. Plus its a nice opportunity for travel lol. Great vid!
More the merrier!
@@TommoMcCluskeyyou’ll need to walk the original Spa next
@@TommoMcCluskey do a little walk around the Nurburgring next!
This track isn’t defunct, it only existed on paper never real life.
I loved it ! The concept of this video was awesome, I would love to see more of that in the future
For sure!
Thank you Romain! 🫡
Native New Yorker here, I do agree that this would have been a great thing with the potential to be a great track, if not for racing than for qualifying, like Monaco, if anything the views with Manhattan in the background would have been stunning, shame it never happened, even if it would have turned out to be a clanger of a track, I would have preferred this over Miami.
You need to do more of these ❤🔥
Channelling my inner Amys xoxo
@@TommoMcCluskey I felt like this was a Matt Amys-type video
As an American who lives in New Jersey this would have been an outstanding race. Unfortunately F1 wasn’t popular enough here at the time (no USGP at time and since 2007). Now the sport is popular enough in the US but the area is fully developed with an affluent populace who don’t want their lives disrupted for such an inconvenience.
BUT If a marathon can shut down the Verranzano and half Manhattan for most of a day why tf not?
That is one day. They don't have to move in walls and put up all the infrastructure a race demands .
Well, Marathons arent loud and is a one day event
Living in eastern PA, I so wanted this track to become a reality when it was proposed.
I used to be a member of a motorcycle riding association (not a gang or MC, but just a bunch of people who liked to ride) and we would do several sightseeing trips a year. The year before they announced the track, we visited the Intrepid, riding to the Port Imperial to take the ferry over. At the time, the area around the port was mostly vacant, so anything was possible in that area. I've not been back to that side of the river since, though I've watched that area get built-up over the years when we'd sail out of the Manhattan Cruise Terminal.
The USGP was already announced for COTA when this was proposed. As for comparing this with a marathon, a Formula 1 race on a temporary street circuit requires a complete repaving of all of the roads the first year, then a track build of 2 to 3 months every year. It also requires the track to be fully closed to traffic for at least 4 days with the area used for the pitlane being closed for about 10 days to allow space for the teams' freight to be stored prior to the teams arriving to set up on the Tuesday before the race.
All USA likes is stupid Fake Football, NASCAR, Basketball and Cricket downgrade called Baseball.
2:00 - That Envue and the parking garage were not built when the track was originally planned. That entire area was just a very large very flat parking lot. The possibilities for putting up the pit buildings and the like were great.
5:19 - Those buildings were most definitely NOT there in 2011. That area was significantly less developed.
8:30 - Just a couple blocks to the left of that huge set of stairs is Hamilton Park, the site of the Alexander Hamilton - Aaron Burr duel that ended Hamilton's life. Yes, I know different Hamilton than we're used to on this channel, but still a highly famous one.
12:10 - Very good point. Boulevard East is a prime real estate location because of the views that you can obviously see, and it's also a rather well-traveled road, which you can also see from the traffic (which was probably around... 3, 3:30 PM in November judging by the lighting). Those people would effectively be unable to leave their driveways and garages for the entire time the circuit would be set up. This would massively affect the parking in the area. And considering Weehawken is the 15th most densely populated city in the US, at nearly 22K/mi^2 or 8500/km^2, that would be a *nightmare*. For comparison, that's about 1.5 times the population density of London. (Although it's still only half the density of its neighbor to the south, Hoboken.)
14:10 - They were able to justify re-paving the entire road leading to Liberty National Golf Course so the PGA players had a better road to drive in on. They could DEFINITELY justify doing so for a racecourse
15:50 - That is the way the Palisades are. The Palisades are a series of geological cliffs running from Jersey City all the way up to Nyack, New York. In Weehawken, they're about 300 feet high, and further north when they are part of Palisades Interstate Park, they're part of a National Natural Landmark Gorgeous views and the occasional roads winding up along the side of them make for breathtaking drives, in multiple senses of the word.
18:25 - June can be HELLISH in New Jersey. Weehawken's average temperatures are a little cooler than some other cities in the area because of the waterfront location, but June still averages around a high of 80F (27C) with a low of 65F (18C). An abnormally hot early Summer could be hell for the drivers.
19:00 - That is most definitely the sewage treatment plant.
21:50 - Yes, I believe it might be a greater elevation change than Monaco (which is 42m/138 ft). According to what I can find, that one descending road alone is a 46m descent just from the right-hander at the top. COTA is 41m/133ft for example
Also, there's a bar in the Port Imperial ferry station that used to be my karaoke place about every month before The Fire Nation Attacked.
The circuit is one of those that in and of itself would be an amazing circuit to drive. The problem is everything else around it. If you could put it in a simulator and fix the roads, that would be something that would be so fun to try. But in real life, it would be almost impossible. You saw just how many cars used both Boulevard East (the upper road) and River Road (the lower road). Now imagine shutting down those roads for an extended weekend. The traffic on the parallel roads to the west, which is already naturally heavy, would be insane. Also, you'd pretty much have to shut down the ferry service for the weekend as well, and that is how a number of people in the area get back and forth to their jobs in Manhattan. It would run along a street filled with single- and dual-family housing. It might be great to see but it would end up being a major inconvenience to many people in the city.
In the end, it was a wonderful idea in a vacuum, but a horrible idea in real life. OH, and also IIRC, a friend of mine was talking about getting the 3-day tickets to the race and quoted me a price of $325. In the early 2010s. And people were complaining about ticket prices today at some tracks? Naw, we know all about making sports STUPIDLY expensive.
That said, thank you for this tour of an area I've known for much of my life, and RIP Tommo's calves.
Thank you for time-stamping and explaining everything I wanted to comment. Taking the ferry from Port Imperial to the Javits Center every year for the past 20+ for the Auto Show I have seen the entire area change. And I can't believe he walked right by the location of the Duel!
I’ve lived here for over 20+ years and you couldn’t have said it best. I remember when the idea was floating around, lots of folks were selling their homes on BLVD East because of the proposal, and surprisingly enough fetched even more money for their properties. I still live here now and the area is highly developed, unfortunately we pay the price in the form of property taxes. Thank you for the breakdown.
Love that hotel loll amazing views
Excellent comment but I have to disagree about the weather in June. I don't disagree that it could be 80° but that's not hellish, that's actually pretty nice. July, August and early September are hellish...
My 2012 NY-GP Predictions:
Race Winner: Fernando Alonso
Banger Drive: Kimi Räikkönen
Clanger Drive: Pastor Maldonado
Banger Team: Lotus
Clanger Team: Sahara Force India
But jokes aside. Wonderful video Tommo and it looked you really had fun to explore it :)
Underestimate Pastor at your own peril Kira! 😅
Pastor is always chalk to cause a disaster as soon as he hits the throttle. All daddy's money couldn't buy talent.
I was working in Jersey City at the time and took the afternoon off to watch Seb Vettel drive the proposed track.
I have a bunch of photos from the day somewhere.
No way you actually did it. Awesome.
I did! 🫡
I get this is probably considerably more costly and effort-intensive than your usual stuff (especially the travel) but I'd love to see more like this if it winds up doing well for you. Really interesting concept Wommo
Ultimately I took the opportunity to do this on top of something else I was already doing - and that'll probably be the case going forward for stuff like this. Can't see it hitting a 6 figure banger sadly.
0:55 you practically dropped that pushpin on my house. I think I would have died and gone to motorsport heaven. but deep down I know the locals would have been insufferable about it for years/months in advance... until race week when every last one of them magically found their Ferrari colors and claimed to support the scuderia since their family was back in It-ly. (Also it's almost certain that any racetrack would have been purpose-built on a tract of land that now is home to several massive Amazon distribution facilities - there was also talk of putting an oval here for a NASCAR event as well)
Tonight, Tommo touches concrete
Stomping
This might be idealistic but I reckon that instead of building F1 tracks in the middle of cities it's probably best for everyone if they could build some kind of purpose-built facility away from where people live. It's crazy but it just might work.
Insane idea that.
you could even design the track to go in certain directions, that would be interesting
If only there was a way to simulate this track. 🤔
they did that with korea, complete failure
You say that, but this track really was one I was just cranked to see. It was so wild
I grew up in an apartment building a few blocks from this route. Wild.
Nice ends. 👌
That was a great video Tommo! That track would have been interesting but you're right, the residents in that area would have hate it.
Thank you Carlos! In practice, I don't think it'd have lasted more than a few years tbh. But we'll never know!
the editing is goated in this video
Cheers Jack!
I used to live in an apartment at the top of the hill! It cool great seeing you walk what was essentially my dog walk circuit and crazy to imagine it could’ve been an F1 circuit. Not a lot of people know that Weehawken has the best view of NYC, I’m glad you enjoyed it. Great vid 👍
I live in Port Imperial and had no idea! So cool- basically drive that route daily.
same here im up in west NY up by the turn before going back down to port imperial and i had no no clue about this!!
I hope one day someone makes a mod for this in Assetto Corsa if not then il have to do it myself one day Vettel even said it reminded him of spa out of all the street circuits this is probably one of the most cool and unique and such a shame this wasn't on the calendar1000 times better than Miami
My hometown! Welcome! If I had known you were here, I would have invited you over for drinks! I am on turns 6 and 7. 😂
crazy to see tommo walking around a place i used to frequent. since you asked, NJ in june would be perfect for a grand prix, but if it’s in the afternoon there would be a decent chance of heavy rain randomly. it’s a beautiful place, unlike the rest of jersey, would’ve loved going to this as a track back in the day
Yeah I imagined June would be decent - although given I recorded this on Monday, can't believe how decent the weather was!
There are lots of beautiful places here if you actually travel the state.
"a beautiful place, unlike the rest of jersey"
that's one way to tell everyone you've never been to most of new jersey.
@@BwInNewJersey settle brother, i’m from the state. obviously a joke. besides newark airport, that’s no joke (i’m standing on this regardless of the renovations lol)
I love F-1 in the rain but I disagree that it was likely in June.
The afternoon thunderstorms are typically in July and August with high heat and humidity.
June is usually very nice...
I heard about the Grand Prix on the local news in NJ, but I was more into NASCAR at the time lol. The race would have stuck out a lot, with cars going past people’s doorsteps at 150-200mph, there would’ve been some kickback there if it did take place. But a more serious race that occurred in NY/NJ region was the Meadowlands Grand Prix that took place outside of MetLife Stadium, Indycar was the first to pioneer it there and the circuit was built similar to today’s Miami Grand Prix. My dad told me people loved the racing there until the 90’s when it stopped. I hope if F1 brings a circuit back to the region here, there’s definitely a market here. Also I can’t forget when Formula E brought racing to actual NYC with the Red Hook street circuit and that had a similar layout to this circuit, but that took place in an actual shipping yard, shame that they took that race away to opt for the Portland E-Prix.
I saw an IndyCar race there one year and didn't like it. They just slapped a race together in a big parking lot. It had no character whatsoever and talk about heat!!! You basically got cooked by the sun and the black pavement. It was like sitting in frying pan. There was no shade or cover to even take a break for a bit to cool off for a few minutes. It was brutal. There also wasn't anything to do as there were no restaurants, shops, or anything really. You were trapped in the huge parking lot all day or weekend if you went to every session.
It did bring in a good crowd though as it was the only racing in the immediate area. This track would have been great!
Seeing this makes me sad knowing we could of had this, and we got miami
Do you remember the Meadowlands Grand Prix for CART/Indy? We walked so they could stumble drunkenly into the next South Beach bar. 🤣
You should do the track walk at Albert Park if you ever make is down under. Beautiful stroll around a lovely part of Melbourne
That is on my bucket list for SURE
Tommo, if you're near long beach you should do a similar video for the long beach grand prix. The local community is very supportive of it and it totally works.
Didn't watch F1 back then, but seems like it'd have been fairly solid for a street track. Cars would've been screaming down towards the hairpin down that hill.
Awesome video, love it. And i find it sad that the race didn't actually happen, cause the layout looks quite decent, definitly better than Miami.
It reminds me somewhat of Monaco, particularly that uphill stretch…?
@@2themoon863 Monaco in terms of the elevation changes, but New Jersey would have been much quicker and probably wider
Absolutely love the concept of this video! Would love to see proposed tracks that never-were or even defunct f1 tracks.
Vibes: immaculate. Track: absolutely stunning. It's a shame it never happened. Thanks for the tour, Tommo
This is awesome. What a nice surprise, I was wondering after you mentioned the NYC visit
So happy you did this video, Tom. I was eagerly awaiting this circuit during every stage of planning & watched all those promo videos when they debuted, was deeply saddened when it was official that it wouldn't be going through, and legit still frequently think about it to this day... Especially now that, these days in my life, I only live 2 hours from there.
Thank you for doing your part to make sure this project isn't just totally memory hole-d
This was a lot of fun. Also, I got to see a part of NY I've never visited. Good job dude!
At 22:36 when you say "that was a crazy long bit", the two buildings behind you, wayyyy behind you, are where the turn around hairpin is.
Great video! Nice to see it from this perspective over 10 years on.
Cheers McPhilen - I had to at least try and get a look at it whilst I was there. Was absolutely worth it.
My fav video of yours !!! So great to hear more about this once-to-be track.
Really enjoyable video Tommo! I appreciate the extra effort something like this would take, it really shows. U da goat of f1 youtube
Great video Tommo. Love the concept. Sad to see it hasn't got the views you normally get but I loved it. Keep it up lad!
Tommo just here to say this is a genuinely great video. I think its worth sticking with doing similar videos for a while if possibly they might not take off immediately but i think once people actually see one theyd appreciate it. Its just completely different to the normal video format which might make a few people question it. Great stuff though
Quality video Tommo! More videos like this please!
More than anything this was a great tour of the neighborhood that most New Yorkers never even see. Good job!
I live near the track. At the time, I was pretty excited at the idea...but old man me now says hell no. I can't imagine the interruption to daily life a track/race would have caused. Port Imperial is a major commuter hub, let alone all the bus routes and car routes that would have been impacted. As far as a June race goes, it would have been nice, late spring weather with plenty of green and flowers. Next time you are in the USA visit the track that almost was in the 90's outside Washington, DC - near Culpepper, VA in a town called Brandy Station. Same fate, money and community push back. Today, it's an airport :(
Flushing Meadow Park was also supposed to have f1 races years before the gp of America, track traveled around the lake and is similar to Albert park, best part it’s actually in NYC
You should do this w active F1 tracks too. The ones that are open off season to give a more irl experience, which is an angle we don’t rly get at those speeds
Great video, really enjoyed the change of pace!
For what it's worth, I consider what you do looking into business side of sponsors and team ownership/dynamics (like the Mission Winnow video) to be journalistic.
I remember Speed Channel host, Steve Machett, being there. I miss their show.
I miss Speed Channel period! We had it good with channel. I'm surprised that with the increased popularity of racing someone hasn't brought it back. There is the F-1 Channel on Pluto that runs 24/7 but I have no idea if it's doing any good numbers or not.
@kowalski3769 It's also on prime as well. Just shows old F1 races from beginning to end. It's nice for background noise
@@srfnsurfer 😄Yeah I do the same thing with it. Don't know if you're into any Sprint Cars or World of Outlaws but Dirtvison has a channel where they show old ( a month or 2 back) races that I'll throw on for background noise as well.
Love the new type of content. 🎉 You mentioned poor viewership. FYI this video didn't appear on my homepage! 😢
Incredible video, thank you for filling a gap in my F1 history!
Awesome video Tommo, would love to see more of these!
My cousin was fresh out of college when this started up, and he spent the first few years of his career assigned to this project at an engineering firm doing site surveys. It was amusing because he stayed assigned to the project when it became dormant, and years afterwards. He eventually moved on, but he was probably one of a few people who actually worked on it, even if it was outside with a stick measuring elevation.
As an American thinking back to 2011, I do remember this track proposal. I think there were a number of factors that lead to its failure. There weren’t many younger F1 fans then (pre-DTS) and a lot of older fans had sworn off F1 after the Indy debacle on ‘05 or whatever that was. You’re right, there was also a lot of frustration amongst locals in Ny/NJ over the location. Money-wise, I think they could come up with the money now, but this was also still only a few years post-recession, so it was harder then. There were a lot of environmental groups against it too.
Yeah absolutely, it does make sense why it didn't happen. I can't imagine we'd have got more than a few years out of it to be honest. We could end up saying the same about Vegas in time.
Funny becoming a new F1 fan and my old work area was apparently gonna house a track before … huh . You learn something new everyday ! 🎉 great informative video 10/10 !
This track would have been awesome. Great video Tommo you really showed how great New York is.
Cheers Franco, glad you enjoyed it!
I live in New Jersey. The right time to do the race would be around Canada and Miami. Right now it around 45 degrees and two days ago it was snowing. Would have to be before Halloween.
Spooky
Great change of pace and format compared to the typical formula. Good job.
This was awesome! Nice one man🤙🏼
I was watching F1 in the US in 2011 and I specifically remember the Austin track getting all the hype. Almost every race sky sports F1 via IPTV or whoever was broadcasting on Direct TV was always showing updates on the building of the Austin track. The New Jersey track was not even being mentioned until after the success of COTA in 2012.
As a native staten islander I had no idea we were considered to have an f1 gran prix. That would’ve been incredible. A shame it didn’t happen here! Great video overall, hope you enjoyed the city mate
I use the ferry terminal at the finish line everyday to commute into the city but there are many normal shops, houses, and low income housing. Also the disruption to commuters and local traffic would have caused great pushback.
I’m from Jersey, and I remember the very beginning when this was proposed (I was like 8 years old). It put so much interest into the sport for me thinking I was gonna have a race in my backyard
Love these type of videos. Props to you tommo
Really cool video, Tommo! Thanks, mate!
iK toronto is smaller then NYC but def come here in the summer for the Indy race, its crazy experience.
American here. I only started following F1 in 2012, but it’s no surprise they couldn’t get funding at the time. Back then I had never heard anybody talk about F1. Like really nobody. I knew who Michael Schumacher was but that’s it.
Big fan of this style of video!
18:16 also re: June weather - it's essentially the best weather time of year to hold a race in this area. Montreal is about a 7 hour drive due north, and they hold the Canadian GP then for the ideal weather, though it's much warmer in NYC than Montreal at any given time. So there's almost no risk of a cold race a la Vegas, but it's not nearly as hot and humid as the city gets in July/August (I mean, it's no Singapore or Doha, but it can get dangerously hot at times). Though much less of a concern than Miami, having the race before hurricane season really kicks off in late summer minimizes the risk of a huge storm hitting at that time too.
I live in Eastern PA and go to the Canadian GP nearly every year. There's not much difference in the temperature in June, maybe 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit at most. It's the winter where the temperature is a 15 to 20 degrees colder.
Great video. Love the mix up of content. 👏🏼 Welcome back to the US.
Thats not an F1 tracks- it's a circa 2000 CART track (reminds me of Vancouver, Surfers Paradise street circuits) only wider, faster and with elevation change)
It was supposed to be a Formula 1 track.
Incredible concept and execution for this video!!
Love the video Tommo! Very cool thought experiment
So im semi local to this area and ive been to that garage and port a few times. Ive known about this but never put it into context like this. Really fun
I live near by and lived right on what would have been the track, great to see how we could have had an f1 race. I so wish it had happened.
Really enjoyed this video, would love to see more like it.
Enjoyed this video very much. Thank you!
As someone who uses that Port a lot, that would have been awesome to see that be a F1 racetrack!!!
That's such a beautiful day, and a beautiful part of a city of what could've been an F1 track! The track's... geography? feels somewhat similar to Monaco just like what you said, and probably Macau as well, another famous street circuit! Pretty interesting that these three locations have that similar element of the sea and the mountains/hills about it. Even the hilly part on this feels similar to Macau, where it's just a wee bit twisty but still pretty high speed. Honestly I love the Macau circuit whenever I played the sim, has a great blend of challenging twisty parts at the top of the hill and then the famous long straight that still offers great overtaking opportunities, which is kinda similar to this! Love the great work on this bit of journalism mate!
I'm from the southern part of New Jersey, and there was not even a tenth of the interest there is now for F1. Back then, we weren't even the on the #1 sports channel, ESPN, like we are now, and using BBC's feed. We had just the international feed and remote commentary.
Tommo, how much time did it actually take you to walk the track? Obviously, you would have stopped for views, but do you recall the time off the ferry and the time of sunset?
I actually recall that the road down hill with the sewage plant at the end to the hairpin was actual paved to remove the camber back then. The US loves camber on the residential roads for drainage. Definitely not compatible for this generation of ground effect. I think if the car was positioned on the crest of the camber, today's car is absolutely scraping the tunnels of the underside.
Epic Tommo thumbnail.
It's a mix of Baku/Monaco, I like it! Would take that over Miami for sure
June would definitely be the optimal time for a GP. The warm weather would have been in full effect without it being late enough into the summer to get to the 90-100+ degree range. It would have been sitting around 70-80 degrees most of the time
Back in 2005, I used to drive the section between T6 and T15 every day. I wasn't even into F1 then, but I still thought it'd make a cool track. Especially the downhill part.
I cannot believe Tommo was in NJ. If I was walking down the block in weehawken and saw Tommo I would think someone slipped me drugs 😂. WHAT IS HE DOING HERE??? Guess I'll have to wait til Austin hopefully to see you in person!
😂😂😂
As not just a US resident but a nearby one (Philadelphia), both of which things were true back in 2011 (and for longer): your musings starting around 11:24 are precisely why I don't think a track in any major US city is feasible, regardless of whether they're able to raise the money. The US loves cars… for commuting. That's why the "Austin" track is way the hell out of town, and why folks who actually live and work in Vegas are so, justifiably, upset about the disruptions to the only business that town does. Which is unfortunate, because my best experiences attending a race in person have been in Montréal and Mexico City, where you can get directly to the track on a train.
Formula E did race in Brooklyn, but in the docks near where the Queen Mary 2 embarks from. That would not really work for F1 because it didn’t have a Paddock (the cars went into a loop with a bunch of big tents for the teams to use.) There is an even older proposal to run a b shaped track around the World Trade Center (this was for Indy Car)… when that failed they raced in the parking lot at the Meadowlands in NJ (very much like the Miami GP).
American F1 fan here. If they were gonna bring F1 back to NY I wish they would do it in Watkins Glen like they used to. But they won't because there aren't enough tourist trips and big name businesses in Watkins Glen that cater to the super rich.
This was real ✨Investigative Journalism ✨ Tommo.
Excellent work, and super interesting! well done and thank you!!!
Superb work sir! 🍻
Back in 2011 I was excited for this track. It's a rare type of street circuit that looks like an actual racing track. Shame it never got off the ground.
Tommo in the wild, even at 368, vibes.
I wish you would have also been able to look at the Gran Turismo 4 track. I loved driving that! I think that and Seattle were my favorite city tracks from the games.
One correction Tommo! When you come off the ferry, you're in West New York, NJ. Hope you enjoyed our city and towns. I drive the would be circuit every day!
As an NYC local who has visited that area plenty - you're just south of Edgewater NJ for the majority of this video - and who became an F1 fan in the Barrichello/Stewart-Ford days, another potential nail in the coffin was local interest. It wasn't until maybe DTS that conversations started to happen about F1 at my workplace. That said, that part of NJ is a bit of a bear to get to once you're over the George Washington Bridge. Quite a few choke points, methinks from area experience, to make this a feasible successful event, even if this were to be proposed today.
Lovely jubbly video Tommo.
One thing I was thinking though is there doesn’t seem to be many possibilities for spectators/grandstands which I guess F1 need for ticket sales.
Gotta come to Melbourne soon for the GP 👌🏻
here to support the F1 content goat 🙏 F1 need to make a historic channel and hire you and Mr V
It was nice to hear the Gran Turismo music in the background which got me thinking: If Formula One wanted to race in the Big Apple, couldn't they just use the New York City circuit from GT4? Probably not, but it would be fun.
This is such a cool video idea. Banger Tommo 🎉
Amazing video! I live in NJ and drive around these street almost everyday. It won’t be the same now. Lmaooo
Based on the architecture and how much that part of New Jersey has grown recently, a lot of those 4- or 5-story apartment buildings (even the old-timey-looking ones) were probably only built within the last 10 years and probably would not have been built if there was a regular grand prix there.
that's Gran Turismo music in the intro! nice touch
That sock smell is so specific and so relatable