Lot’s of detail analysis. Really enjoyed seeing the changes made to the head and the degree to which they increased air flow. Nice listening to someone who is curious, literate and engaged. Thanks,
Thanks! It was a lot of work, I tend to like to keep my head down when I'm doing stuff like this so filming was pretty hard. You can see that it spanned multiple days and my voice shows my energy level changing. I'm looking forward to the video to finish processing so I can cut out the extra clip that I missed haha.
A stock SVT/St170 Head will have 50 more cfm of flow everywhere and can see 300 hp NA if done properly. Nothing is the same between the 2.0l Black top, and the svtF head. Different valves, ports, cams, vct on the intake cam, bigger holes, different tappets, different valve guides, its all different. Valve cover is not the same. The intake flange is 15mm shifted on the bolt flange. If you want real info on the svtF/St170 head, you have to reach out to danSTenginering and burton power.
So if I was looking for more in that head shown here, it be more readily achieved at perhaps those you mention or some place else with fuller info on the range? This is too experimental? Lacking?
First the guy with the Toyota head if he was smart he should have sent you both heads to be on the safe side. I love the Ford Zetech engine build I’m a fan of the ITB’s love to see more on it.
The SVO head is better on the intake than the stock 2.0 Zetec head It responds very well to R seats on the intake and exhaust. You get very good low lift results.
Did the first Zetec heads 25 years ago. Didnt do much on exhsust as ruined one because of extreme core shift. Then found out ...a good seat profile , back cut and nice radius ..... ready. Intake port I , depending on budget , either kept it small with 34 mm valves. Or raised it with epoxy about 4 to 5 mm from start to inner radius. That flows good. The focus 170st head or silver top heads are much better on intake and easier
I get exposed to a lot of stuff still being on the sidelines in the industry. And the big block is cool, mine was a 2022 model engine that was originally for a Thomas bus. They’re not GM engines, just share the architecture.
That is right! It gets really goofy with modified valvetrain too. Most europeans, and japanese had a shim adjustment of some sort until the late 2010’s.
bro tell your story ! we need to learn from your mistakes so we know how to encounter them ive been working in construction with same ppl you talked about and took me like 2 years to understand how to perform read and check roof columns order joints cement blocks and etc ... you can help young fellas by doing so
The Zetec head you have here isn't the SVT Focus version - it's a standard 2.0L head from the regular Focus models, probably '03-'04 based on the casting number. That would start with 2M5V instead of YS4E if it was the SVT, but the most obvious indication is the lack of VCT oiling and solenoid mounting for the intake cam. You should have seen stock flow numbers closer to 160 exhaust and 230 intake on the SVT. You still got great numbers - Central Florida Motorsports used to sell a ported SVT head that maxed around 195 exhaust and 255 intake.
Thanks to watching Your Channel as soon as you pulled the tape off the head at 38:40 I realized that was the 8.8 head not an 8.1 head. I'm sure as soon as I press play again your Gona say what it is.
You said something about running .430 or .450 lift. Given the valve size that's a lot of lift. Would a 50 or 55 degree intake seat be a better complement for that much lift, with appropriate top and throat cuts? Or, given your low lift numbers, maybe a 30 or 37 degree intake seat will pick those numbers up, with the greater separation area between the valve and seat. I meant to post that to you on Reddit.
I know nothing, but I assume that unshrouding the valve in the chamber as much as you can (on the side opposite the intake port where the air will want to go) and using a flat 30* seat is how you could get better flow @ low lifts. & you aren't planning any K series, Skyactiv, Duratec investigations in the future are you? :D I'm having fun watching.@@EngineRehab
Quality engineering in this day and age can only be provided in small batches and at high cost, can't have economy of scale and proper quality at the same time unless you don't wanna make money off your product.
Can you run gappless rings? They will give it a little more suck on the intake giving you a tiny boost to intake exhaust flow ratio. It's clear that the port wants the floor raised a little, if you could weld the F out of the floor I'm sure you could get the 250cfm number you're chasing.
Been really enjoying your style of making videos. I’m one of those people that loses interest quickly if you can’t keep me hooked. Lots of interesting info. I’m a head machinist myself but more in the rebuilder world so it’s cool to see more performance stuff. But also reassuring to see that lots of overlap in practices
Exhaust leak ticking is a common occurrence in many UZ series motors so i would say you're guess is probably right. Lots of people have 250k and up mile uz's with just MLS head gaskets and a turbo putting down 400hp+ to the wheels. The record for a non vvti sc400 that has a stock bottom end has ran in the 8's. Crazy reliable and strong engines. You really need a stand alone ecu to go past the mid 300hp range and only certain factory ecus can be tuned iirc. Plenty of junkyard supercharger options for cheap power too.
I would love to see a Honda K20 or K24 head build which ever is the best I think the K20 head. You know more than I do. Thank you for sharing your experience and videos.
You hit the nail on the head bro.. the gate keeping .. and upselling of how hard things are.. I mean there’s a lot to it.. but it’s not quite rocket science.. close .. but not quite 😂😂
Run the lash down to .006-.008” on both sides. That’s exact architecture we’ve been running on the Japanese bikes forever. Typically everything is shim under or we convert it to under if any performance is the goal. I know the logic is the exhaust is gonna run hotter so they want tad more clearance so it never tightens up and keeps a valve hanging open, but we’ve done tests checking lash, directly starting engine and run the shit out them and getting it hot, and immediately popping the valve cover. The lash never gets smaller it actually grows. 🤷🏻♂️. So we’ve always run em on the tight side and pretty much every bucket engine will work with 6-8 thou. Now you can play with it, open it up to pull some duration if the aftermarket cams too big. Etc etc. but your an engine builder too so I’m sure you get what I’m saying!👍🏻. You know Laurie at web too I see, bunch of nice girls over there and they do good work! Do you get anything from Megacycle- (Barbara’s a tough one 🤦♂️)
Brother, it's funny or not so funny how these companies do their employees. Late 90s I worked at a company in Ft.Lauderdale rebuilding cv axles, power steering pumps, steering gear boxed and rack and pinions. They did me the same way. I started learning on my own talking to the rebuilders. Couple years later I had my own business doing the same thing they didn't want to teach me lol. Who lost there huh? Lol. Instead of a great employee, I became competition lol.
Really strange results for a 4 valve. Not much more than my gen3 gm 60 deg v6 heads. And those are 2 valve with 1.74 intake valves and 1.42 exhaust. Wonder if theres something with the chamber also?
Got a cheap rb26 head. Previous "machinist" cut every single fkn valve... all but 4 of em too short for the shim to sit on the valve so now they sit on the retainers. Ugh.
THIS IS NOT A SVT/ST170 CYLINDER HEAD. This is a Non VCT 2.0L 2000-2004 Focus Zetec black top. At max puff without modifying the cam lift bucket area you will never make over 220 hp with that head. This is the worst cylinder head in the Zetec lineup
Your work is good and your data is fantastic. The main reason i commented is to simply inform you that it is not a SVTF cylinder head. I have a hand full of oe casted SVT F heads sitting i am willing to ship to you with some valves so you can see if your ported 2.0 black top is better than a actual svt F head. ( im sure your port job will be better than a stock svtf head but by how much???? ) Ill pay for the shipping if you want a SvtF/st170 zetec head with some valves for testing.
Port matching still to do You said then you don't want to open up the port entry. I don't know any of your level tech. Would it be better just to go to all the most rewarding cuts in ports befor flowing? Many four cylinder heads leave me mystified by the subtle changes in head design that produce faster accelerating motors and broader rpm HP.. Not all the great producers are 4 valve unless punching for RPM. Is any or all of that sounding ...about right? Without going into the cam duration and lift values?
The intake manifold side is smaller than the head and needs matching. And on stuff that isn’t responsive to porting it’s helpful to spend time testing on the bench to ensure every decision made contributes to an improvement. More than just total airflow too.
@@EngineRehab yes. velocity is important more than a passive gulp of air volume , I'm told. I am trying to end up with the right mix for Nissan NapsZ . From heads for 1.6 to the big 2.4 with big valves and ports. Another can of worms.
@@EngineRehab I was thinking it was a Cosworth during the mid of video (where I opened the clip) with sound low down so I disturb nobody sleeping nearby.
@@jackrichards1863 Cosworth heads are cool. I got some exposure to a lot of those. Towards the end of my career at my old employer I was able to improve on a Ford Kent program that remained unsuccessfully improved for almost ten years. That was cool.
Lot’s of detail analysis. Really enjoyed seeing the changes made to the head and the degree to which they increased air flow. Nice listening to someone who is curious, literate and engaged. Thanks,
Thanks! It was a lot of work, I tend to like to keep my head down when I'm doing stuff like this so filming was pretty hard. You can see that it spanned multiple days and my voice shows my energy level changing. I'm looking forward to the video to finish processing so I can cut out the extra clip that I missed haha.
Good job Joe
Thanks Mitch. Big ups to the ADHD brain.
A stock SVT/St170 Head will have 50 more cfm of flow everywhere and can see 300 hp NA if done properly.
Nothing is the same between the 2.0l Black top, and the svtF head.
Different valves, ports, cams, vct on the intake cam, bigger holes, different tappets, different valve guides, its all different. Valve cover is not the same. The intake flange is 15mm shifted on the bolt flange.
If you want real info on the svtF/St170 head, you have to reach out to danSTenginering and burton power.
So if I was looking for more in that head shown here, it be more readily achieved at perhaps those you mention or some place else with fuller info on the range? This is too experimental? Lacking?
What?
I cant understand what you are asking.
First the guy with the Toyota head if he was smart he should have sent you both heads to be on the safe side.
I love the Ford Zetech engine build I’m a fan of the ITB’s love to see more on it.
Definitely send both in every case of a Vee. Keep the performance balanced by making them the same. Fuel economy and smooth engine power production!
Yeah it felt fishy when he was saying this was for a 2UZ and the customer only sent one head in😂
The SVO head is better on the intake than the stock 2.0 Zetec head It responds very well to R seats on the intake and exhaust. You get very good low lift results.
Did the first Zetec heads 25 years ago. Didnt do much on exhsust as ruined one because of extreme core shift. Then found out ...a good seat profile , back cut and nice radius ..... ready.
Intake port I , depending on budget , either kept it small with 34 mm valves. Or raised it with epoxy about 4 to 5 mm from start to inner radius. That flows good.
The focus 170st head or silver top heads are much better on intake and easier
Yeah, I got a look at an st170 head, weird that this was in a caterham.
@@EngineRehabZetec is a common swap into the caterhams, until the duratec came out that is
Liking the big block Chevy Stroker. This channel is getting better and better with all of the variety makes of engines.
I get exposed to a lot of stuff still being on the sidelines in the industry. And the big block is cool, mine was a 2022 model engine that was originally for a Thomas bus. They’re not GM engines, just share the architecture.
Good stuff man, thanks for sharing it with us.
I want to hear the rest of the story! What happened? Did the only machinist tell you to seek greener pastures?
The 4age 20 valves were also shim under bucket. Glad I adjusted them out of car.
That is right! It gets really goofy with modified valvetrain too. Most europeans, and japanese had a shim adjustment of some sort until the late 2010’s.
bro tell your story ! we need to learn from your mistakes so we know how to encounter them ive been working in construction with same ppl you talked about and took me like 2 years to understand how to perform read and check roof columns order joints cement blocks and etc ... you can help young fellas by doing so
The Zetec head you have here isn't the SVT Focus version - it's a standard 2.0L head from the regular Focus models, probably '03-'04 based on the casting number. That would start with 2M5V instead of YS4E if it was the SVT, but the most obvious indication is the lack of VCT oiling and solenoid mounting for the intake cam. You should have seen stock flow numbers closer to 160 exhaust and 230 intake on the SVT. You still got great numbers - Central Florida Motorsports used to sell a ported SVT head that maxed around 195 exhaust and 255 intake.
I like my cameo. You did survive the crowds at Rennsport though.
I always enjoy when the automotive machinists have a fit about me doing engine work on conventional machine tools.
Wait til they see me rebuild a Ferrari next week.
I find it interesting to see how you perform your abra cadabra on these heads!
That downdraft station is so sick
I'm really enjoying the video style with all the info 👍
Thanks to watching Your Channel as soon as you pulled the tape off the head at 38:40 I realized that was the 8.8 head not an 8.1 head. I'm sure as soon as I press play again your Gona say what it is.
Great down to earth videos. Good work.
You said something about running .430 or .450 lift. Given the valve size that's a lot of lift. Would a 50 or 55 degree intake seat be a better complement for that much lift, with appropriate top and throat cuts? Or, given your low lift numbers, maybe a 30 or 37 degree intake seat will pick those numbers up, with the greater separation area between the valve and seat.
I meant to post that to you on Reddit.
I think a 50 degree cut could help, but I think the ultimate path would be epoxy, shrink the port up, and add some short side height to it.
I know nothing, but I assume that unshrouding the valve in the chamber as much as you can (on the side opposite the intake port where the air will want to go) and using a flat 30* seat is how you could get better flow @ low lifts.
& you aren't planning any K series, Skyactiv, Duratec investigations in the future are you? :D
I'm having fun watching.@@EngineRehab
The industry has disparaged itself.. long ago..
Quality engineering in this day and age can only be provided in small batches and at high cost, can't have economy of scale and proper quality at the same time unless you don't wanna make money off your product.
Can you run gappless rings? They will give it a little more suck on the intake giving you a tiny boost to intake exhaust flow ratio.
It's clear that the port wants the floor raised a little, if you could weld the F out of the floor I'm sure you could get the 250cfm number you're chasing.
love this channel, so insightful.
Been really enjoying your style of making videos. I’m one of those people that loses interest quickly if you can’t keep me hooked. Lots of interesting info. I’m a head machinist myself but more in the rebuilder world so it’s cool to see more performance stuff. But also reassuring to see that lots of overlap in practices
It’s all the same to me, as long as you’re trying to do a little better than average job I’d say you’re doing fine!
I’m curious to see what you think about doing the continuous radius valve job instead of a 3 or 5 angle valve job
Exhaust leak ticking is a common occurrence in many UZ series motors so i would say you're guess is probably right. Lots of people have 250k and up mile uz's with just MLS head gaskets and a turbo putting down 400hp+ to the wheels. The record for a non vvti sc400 that has a stock bottom end has ran in the 8's. Crazy reliable and strong engines. You really need a stand alone ecu to go past the mid 300hp range and only certain factory ecus can be tuned iirc. Plenty of junkyard supercharger options for cheap power too.
I would love to see a Honda K20 or K24 head build which ever is the best I think the K20 head. You know more than I do. Thank you for sharing your experience and videos.
2rz Com stock shim over bucket but when you upgrade your head to bigger cams and springs and whatnot you can get a shim under bucket
Decided to cliffhanger the machinist story with no possible continuation in sight .. cmon man .. I need my story time fix … 🤣🤣
Law of diminishing returns strikes again!
You hit the nail on the head bro.. the gate keeping .. and upselling of how hard things are.. I mean there’s a lot to it.. but it’s not quite rocket science.. close .. but not quite 😂😂
Only thing I’ll say is it is hard. You gotta help people understand why its hard.
Run the lash down to .006-.008” on both sides. That’s exact architecture we’ve been running on the Japanese bikes forever. Typically everything is shim under or we convert it to under if any performance is the goal. I know the logic is the exhaust is gonna run hotter so they want tad more clearance so it never tightens up and keeps a valve hanging open, but we’ve done tests checking lash, directly starting engine and run the shit out them and getting it hot, and immediately popping the valve cover. The lash never gets smaller it actually grows. 🤷🏻♂️. So we’ve always run em on the tight side and pretty much every bucket engine will work with 6-8 thou. Now you can play with it, open it up to pull some duration if the aftermarket cams too big. Etc etc. but your an engine builder too so I’m sure you get what I’m saying!👍🏻. You know Laurie at web too I see, bunch of nice girls over there and they do good work! Do you get anything from Megacycle- (Barbara’s a tough one 🤦♂️)
Mega cycle is twenty minutes south of me. And no, I hear she’s a firecracker.
Brother, it's funny or not so funny how these companies do their employees. Late 90s I worked at a company in Ft.Lauderdale rebuilding cv axles, power steering pumps, steering gear boxed and rack and pinions. They did me the same way. I started learning on my own talking to the rebuilders. Couple years later I had my own business doing the same thing they didn't want to teach me lol. Who lost there huh? Lol. Instead of a great employee, I became competition lol.
Ford's cam lobes for the HPFPs on at least the 1.6l ecoboosts like to eat cam buckets as well.
Any and all improvements to the Zetec head is better than nothing thumbs up 👍.
More about the stroker 8.1!
Now I really wanna see what you can do with a 2.0 duratec head!
Really strange results for a 4 valve. Not much more than my gen3 gm 60 deg v6 heads. And those are 2 valve with 1.74 intake valves and 1.42 exhaust.
Wonder if theres something with the chamber also?
The chamber is not great! It's a big old flat bathtub, not much I can do about that.
subbed, love the content !!!!
Aww, wanted to know if he helped you out or not.
Got a cheap rb26 head. Previous "machinist" cut every single fkn valve... all but 4 of em too short for the shim to sit on the valve so now they sit on the retainers. Ugh.
Satire? Factual information? I am in the weird part of UA-cam again..
I can take you to the weird part if you’d like.
@@EngineRehabMake the bad man stop
I understand why you use a rough finish on the intake port for turbulence but I don’t know why you would use it for the exhaust port?!?
THIS IS NOT A SVT/ST170 CYLINDER HEAD.
This is a Non VCT 2.0L 2000-2004 Focus Zetec black top.
At max puff without modifying the cam lift bucket area you will never make over 220 hp with that head.
This is the worst cylinder head in the Zetec lineup
Yeah, this will make plenty more, and regardless of which head it is, it's what we have to work with. Thankfully It's going to do just fine :)
Your work is good and your data is fantastic.
The main reason i commented is to simply inform you that it is not a SVTF cylinder head.
I have a hand full of oe casted SVT F heads sitting i am willing to ship to you with some valves so you can see if your ported 2.0 black top is better than a actual svt F head. ( im sure your port job will be better than a stock svtf head but by how much???? )
Ill pay for the shipping if you want a SvtF/st170 zetec head with some valves for testing.
@@bscotty24bmx that info would be great for you and the public! I’d flow it if you sent it.
@@lindoncoggins one of my comments got deleted some how.
@@greatestevar what are you talking about.
Bigger lifters is almost a must.....
Nice thumb nail!!! 👍
Great vid sir!
Gude performance was the first to do the zetec heads like this. I made 205 wheel horsepower with one of their head and cam package.
Damn son!! Perfect!!!
Didn’t the Mitsubishi 3000GT also have lifter oiling issues?
Different style of valvetrain. Those used a finger follower.
Port matching still to do You said then you don't want to open up the port entry. I don't know any of your level tech. Would it be better just to go to all the most rewarding cuts in ports befor flowing? Many four cylinder heads leave me mystified by the subtle changes in head design that produce faster accelerating motors and broader rpm HP.. Not all the great producers are 4 valve unless punching for RPM. Is any or all of that sounding ...about right? Without going into the cam duration and lift values?
The intake manifold side is smaller than the head and needs matching. And on stuff that isn’t responsive to porting it’s helpful to spend time testing on the bench to ensure every decision made contributes to an improvement. More than just total airflow too.
@@EngineRehab yes. velocity is important more than a passive gulp of air volume , I'm told. I am trying to end up with the right mix for Nissan NapsZ . From heads for 1.6 to the big 2.4 with big valves and ports. Another can of worms.
Best way to get more power from a Zetec? Replace it with a Duratec.
This is very true!
❤
can you mill me a head for a 1989 gsx 750 Katana price no limit
YOU MY FRIEND ARE WHY AMERICA IS AMERICA ! EXACTLY WHY ! YOUR STORY DID NOT NEED TO BE FINISHED ! THE AMERICAN WAY !
What engine is this?
98-05 Ford Zetec 2.0. Would have come in the Ford Focus, Mondeo, ZX2. Some caterhams had them too.
@@EngineRehab I was thinking it was a Cosworth during the mid of video (where I opened the clip) with sound low down so I disturb nobody sleeping nearby.
@@jackrichards1863 Cosworth heads are cool. I got some exposure to a lot of those. Towards the end of my career at my old employer I was able to improve on a Ford Kent program that remained unsuccessfully improved for almost ten years. That was cool.
@@EngineRehab Awesome!