Thanks for discussing my country. Though I might add that Cyrenaica being split from Tripolitania is actually a modern idea brought from Italian rule in the 20th century. Modern western Libya and eastern Libya along with Fezzan in the south were united for centuries before Italian colonialism. So no, a split doesn’t make as much historical sense as many seem to think.
true and italy were the one who wanted the idea, we have many more states, kingdoms and empires which we built on our own. Also there will be no division. Libyan elections again are gonna happen in 2024 as hafter is finally budging. he could turn into a general instead of the leader.
@@hssh7"Built on our own." They aren't the same country, and you act as if the Ottomans didn't rule over the land for so long. The region belonged to hundreds of different countries and Empires, none of which were Libya.
@@elementallynx493 Ahmed Karamanli (then-ruler of autonomous Tripolitania) expanded the border around the early 1700s to include what later became Fezzan and Cyrenaica. Tripolitania was independent from the Ottomans from 1711 to 1835. Yes, built on our own.
I'm libyan and we want to unify the country not split it. Libya will never be divided, we may have different political opinions but we all love libya❤️🇱🇾🇱🇾
BMA You love Libya that's why you mercilessly ki#led your leader! You reap what you sow!! Muslims are not allowed to revolt against a "muslim leader", Syria, Iraq, Libya,etc., are all the results of showing your back to Islam & going exactly what Allah has ordained not to!!!
Correction, outside powers think it’s easier to split Libya up. Libyans generally understand how financially/economically impractical that would be to do.
There isn't actually much of a debate inside Libya about splitting up the country. In fact, both parties want to unify the country, just under THEIR OWN rule, as the West needs the oil fields in the East and South, while the East needs the prestige, power and relevance of the capital Tripoli and surrounding metropolitan area. Sure, Libya would do well in federalizing and devolving powers inside the country, but that's all, a split is not in anyone's interests. In fact, separation is more of a threat used by both sides to pressure the other for more power.
@@benknowles9633 they don't care about portraying what goes down on the ground level. I've followed this channel for a while and I noticed that they portray stuff the way they want it to seem rather what it actually is
@@revenger211 They churn out a huge amount of material in a short amount of time, of course the average quality of that material isn't going to be that good in the end, so they will brush over stuff or just follow what some news articles are saying.
@@Solid_Snake99 The Eastern faction is also backed by France, interestingly. Strange, given that Russia and France are competing against each other in West Africa (like in Niger).
@@SP-rt4ig France doesn't want an Islamist government, which is why they support Haftar. The other side supports Tripoli because 'Russia bad' basically The entire purpose of bombing Libya was to uproot the last Soviet-aligned governments in North Africa.
hi I'm a Chadian citizen who was Born and live his whole life in Libya and I saw firsthand the effect of the Libyan civil wars and its aftermath and with all due respect to the TLDR team from editors to researchers but I have to respectively disagree although yes for all practical reasons Libya is basically two countries but nobody in the political establishment from the west or the east seen to have an actual real will to divide Libya into two entities politically completely independent from each other, it doesn't matter if either of them genuinely believe in Libyan unity or simply and let's be honest simply trying to achieve their own personal interest. Nobody is benefiting from Libyan division not the political establishment and obviously needless to say not people of Libya
I salute you. I want to ask you, as someone who lived his whole life in Libya: Is it true that during Gaddafi's time education was free, as well as that the state paid for your stay at foreign faculties, and even more importantly, is it true that that the electricity was not paid for, and that you were provided with free houses immediately after marriage or finishing school? In my country, there is a common belief that all of the above is true. I would like you to answer honestly and objectively, so that you know exactly how things are. All the best.
@@Ivan-NZ Yes it's 100% true, I fact most of this service still free to this day although the quality had fallen immensely depends on where are you in Libya special in case of the electricity
@@Ivan-NZ I Tunisian and I know it's true! Many of my friends went to Libya at that time for work or marriage, or buisness, everything in Libya was cheap, so people, especially from the south near Libya used to buy a lot of stuff for cheap and sell it here for a great margin, mark-up, my father did it once for laughs since he already has a job, it was the best moment in my childhood because I got so many chocolate and candy and toys, I was the class most popular because I brought so many delicious stuff every day for 2 weeks
I read this comment before watching the video, and thought: "it can't be that bad". Then I got to the part when he pronounces it. It is that bad. Cursed af.
They do that constantly. I like TLDR and I want to support them but honestly, they need to take this a little more seriously, put in a little effort and strive to be better if they want to be taken seriously.@@daco3557
You forgot to mention that NATO members France and Greece support Haftar’s LNA government ( + Russia, Saudi Arabia and UAE ) V.S. The U.S, Turkey, Italy and Britain ( + Qatar, Pakistan and Iran ) supporting the Tripoli government with weapons, drones and naval vessels. This is the current Libyan Proxy War 2014 - Present.
France has its own agenda. It usually doesn't follow other western powers that are American puppets. Like France, other countries support Haftar, mainly Russia, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates.
I dont think libya would split, both populations of the east and the west want a united libya, elections wont happen soon but a united banking system was a good start and a united military is in the current talks. Its a very slow path but i hope the best for libya and libyans like me
Libya was the last Ottoman Land in the North Africa and it was occupied by Italy. Ottomans lost the war because there was also an ongoing Balkan Wars. Then Italy joined the Axis in WWII and lost Libya to Britian and France.
@@dominant2576 most likely to explain a bit more for the people who don't know the history of Libya since the explanation from TLDR News is just of what happened in the years around Libya becoming independent.
At 4:17, you state that NATO decided to intervene. While NATO indeed intervened, it was under a UN mandate (1970 and 1973). Framing it as a purely NATO endeavor is a misleading narrative. While the NATO lead coalition made many mistakes, it was sanctioned by the UNSC, meaning even Russia and China were not opposed to this intervention.
UN mandate is how the members of UNSC provide diplomatic cloth to their geopolitical interests. China and Russia don't oppose one NATO move, and in exchange NATO UNSC members don't oppose another China or Russia move. So in the end, it's not really that misleading.
True, but NATO abused that mandate, since 1973 resolution was based on the R2P, so with no threat for the civil population NATO didn't have the right to intervene, and that was achieved some days after the riots thanks to the meetins that the African Union held with gaddafi. Even if the civil population was still under threat, NATO had the right to intervene in order to just protect them, but not to provoque a change of regime. They should have done like when the first gulf war took place, which was a justified intervention since It was based on protecting the soverignty of other state and they didnt provoque a regime change.
For 6:18 we was only split but we fought for our independence, libya was always one country whether you like it or not, the name libya comes from "libu" and there were kingdoms and states in libu
Can you please make a video on the Ustica plane accident, in which France allegedly shot down a commercial airliner to assassinate Gaddafi. Recently the former Italian prime minister Amato mentioned this asking for the matter being finally clarified.
As a Tunisian, Libya spliting in two is a big NO Maghreb states and the arab world will surely act, and any attempt of splitting won't be recognized, ever since the split of Sudan, the Arab commonwealth isn't the same. therefore the idea to split libya will never occur. One of them have to die or one gotta control everything, nothing will be split, you take all, or lose all. Thank you
"One of them have to die or one gotta control everything, nothing will be split, you take all, or lose all." The mentality that plague the Middle East, that prepares conflict after conflict, persecution after persecution, endless cycle of revenge and massacres. You can complain about NATO and the CIA !! Please develop this idea : can it be unity when there are winners and losers, tyrants and slaves, opressors and persecuted ?
I don't wonder how Tunisia was low key the most successful Arab Spring experience unlike the sh&$ that went down in my country (Syria) ..... I think that's because most of you are real real educated and wise people ... shout out to my fellow Tunisians 🇸🇾❤️🇹🇳 And peace for Lybia and all the Arab World 🇱🇾❤🙏
Could you clarify the halving of the GDP per capita mentioned at 3:18? From the graph shown Libya's GDP per capita most definitely did not halve from 1992 to 2002.
That graph is weird. Being lazy and just taking the graph Google gives me: Lybia gdp/capita: 1992: 7622$ 2002: 3789$ So just at a glance it seems accurate.
GDP per capita is not a real measure of economic output or living standards, it is especially problematic for energy-exporting countries, whose GDP rises and falls depending on commodity prices. After the economic crisis, most industries didn't need a lot of oil and gas, so oil and gas prices fell during that time, which meant a huge fall in GDP for Libya. But after the end of the crisis, it reversed that trend again.
@@mardasman428 GDP per capita is the only reasoneble way to measure to wealth of a country. There might be problems if you don't consider inequality, but there are no better ways
@@AmirSatt Yes, exactly, it is the best tool to statistically rank and compare economies in NUMBERS, but that doesn't necessarily mean that these numbers are always a good measure of economic activity or the strength of an economy overall. In the end it's still a flawed way to categorize it and it's dangerous to take it at face value without understanding its shortcomings.
The Graph shown at 3:25 does in no way support the claim, that the GDP per capita halved between 1992 and 2002. The "population density" map at 6:25, showing only one colour, doesn't really help to understand the actual population density. Why was the orange region in the bottom left not explained?
Unironically, Libya, like Iraq, would have been much more stable if the West didn't yeet their leaders (Gaddafi and Hussein). Imagine, yeeting an autocrat and not expecting the state to fall into despair.
I don’t agree, a war was already underway in Libya without NATO involvement. The only difference if NATO wasn’t involved is that Gadaffis regime may have still been in control of a large part of the country like Syria. I believe Iraq would have ended up the same way
Iraq under Saddam was no stable place. Saddam had already become overtly hostile again after reneging on the international oversight commissions set up after the Gulf War in 1998. The US and UK were already from then on engaged in conflict with Saddam in enforcing the mandated northern and southern Iraqi no-fly zones, to keep him from bombing his Kurdish and Shia populations. From then on everyone expected him to ramp up the chemical weapons production like he had and used in Iran and on his Kurds in the past, especially since he was building up his forced in the Republican Guard. And don't forget he tried to have George H. W. Bush assassinated during a visit to Kuwait in 1993. Saddam's Iraq was no good for the international community, let alone the local region, after numerous wars with his neighbors. The main problem was after removing him, America tried to set up a Western style government and individualistic consensus democracy, but without the necessary local cultural underpinning that is necessary for it (and can only develop over time and autochthonously), similarly to the failure in Afghanistan. At the very least today, Iraq is no longer vying to invade Kuwait or Iran again.
Both countries would have ended up like Syria without western involvement. You forget about the Arab spring. And Qadaffi would have lost with or without NATO involvement.
as a Libyan this video is poorly researched. there is no sentiment of spliting up the country between the general populas, at most youd find people disagreeing with whether tripoli should remain capital or not. also we wouldnt have been in this mess were it not for nato pushing for its interests in libya.
...but they have clearly shown that they do not have the mastery to self govern. Just look how Gaddafi was killed and these so called muslims shouting AllhoAkbar and killing an innocent man . Has anyone killed the man who got Gaddafis golden gun . No . Some will say oh he was a dictator . Is the west not a dictator. Fools are easy to fool .
@@twirlyturd4364 You do not sing the national anthem and charge at the guns just because NATO paid you too. Well, maybe you would, shill. You do seem susceptible to propaganda. But a country in revolt? Get real.
Having the capital in Sirte might help a lot (see Canada, Australia etc). There’s also a great story about when the Greeks and the Carthaginians (?) were running Cyrenaica and Tripolitania respectively and couldn’t agree where the border should be. Check out the Philani brothers (sp). Great story. Mussolini also put a grand arch about 20 k from the old border. Gone now...
@@cuber5003in a fully democratic system it would be totally fine. Washington DC is dominated by Democrats, and was chosen as a linkage between the North and South when it was built.
@@everettduncan7543 but Libya is not a democratic country... It isn't even a country at the moment, it's more like solving the american civil war by randomly declaring Dallas the new capital of the federation and hoping one of the two sides give up their goal.
@@everettduncan7543 Washington DC isn't associated with a controversial leader, especially one like Gaddafi who traumatized many Libyans in the first civil war not too Long ago.
Nice analysis! Sorry for pointing it out, but you butchered the name Cyrenaica 😅 It's supposed to be like Si-re-nay-ka. The name is ancient Greek, Κυρηναϊκή, and it was a confederation of Greek cities until it was conquered by the Romans and later the Arabs
As a British person you are saying splitting Libya makes sense??! How atrocious! Maybe the UK should be dissolved and 3 independent countries not controlled by London should emerge - that makes sense because before the English invasions and conquests we had Scotland, Wales and Ireland who absolutely loved the English!
They’re really biased, always spewing westerner propaganda. Gaddafi was awful, but, everything that went wrong in Libya was/is because of the west, from colonization, puppet regimes, attempted assassinations, disarming Libya by illegally invading Iraq, fueling the civil war and arming terror groups. These guys call themselves impartial journalists but all they are is imperialist hacks. How is he quoting Reagan and making it seem like Blair(the war criminal)’s visit was the economic highlight of Libya for the past century?
I dont know much about the topic, but I see a lot of passionate people (i'm guessing Libyans) calling out what seem to be inaccuracies in the video. Kudos to the fact checkers - I will be looking for other sources of info on the subject.
But keep in mind that even from a Lybian, there's no absolute truth about unity, independence or historical view. They are ideologies, sometimes, it just feels great to defend a grand idea of "unity." But you could sense some divisions even under Muhammar Khaddafi's iron rule, to today on the ground situation. Or some will defend "unity" but only agree if it's their vision/camp that is at the helm. "Unity" for person A might be different from "unity" for person B and those two persons might participate in the split while just hearing them talk you would think they're together.
As Libyan... I can confirm none of GNU, GNS, HoR or HCS wanna divide this country, I've lived here all my life and the people always want a united one country, even if the idea of Separation was pushed from outside, it's not True, the 2014 revolution or Civil war, coup call it what you want wasn't a separate move, as Cyrenaican fr Benghazi i Call for United State of Libya and no more discussions about Separation because if we wanted it, we would have got it a years ago.
lol, no, there will be no proper division. Libyan elections again are gonna happen in 2024 as hafter is finally budging. he could turn into a general instead of the leader.
Well, if it does happen, I would say it is because it is part of a supremely obvious pattern of partitioning which includes South Africa, Somalia, Zaire, Yugoslavia, Sudan, India, Korea, and so on. Did everyone miss the now deceased husband of the infamous Valerie Plame getting mixed up with a particular figure in Sudan who bases his investment decisions on foreknowledge of that particular partitioning playing out? Apparently so.
A figure in Sudan basing his investment decisions on a pre-existing and popular independence movement achieving their stated goal? Wow, what a Nostradamus...
Quite an irony when Gaddafi remains mourned by most of Sub-Saharan Africans, yet disliked by the Arab world (including North Africa). The division is not about Libya, it is about North vs South of Africa.
Weirder still, when one takes into account his Arabian supremacist policies in Libya, and his Islamic beliefs, when Sub-Saharan Africa is neither Arabic, nor Islamic, outside the fucking terrorists.
@@asharahmad1068 He insulted Saudi King and questioned other Arab governments. Meanwhile Arabs are too tribal to accept it. Saudis do not give a damn on his death.
I think breaking up a few countries in Africa would solve alot of ongoing civil war. Somalia is another country which forcefully needs to be broken into 3 in order for stability to be achieved. Theres no point in having the same culture, religion and language if everyone despises each other through past tribal issues. It will take centuries for these countries to move away from Tribal governments, breaking them up is a quick solution. Doesnt matter if there are 1000 countries in africa, so long as stability is achieved. Europe had decades of wars, rebellions and border skirmishs which define its modern day borders.
While were at it, lets break up the united states in northern and southern states? Lets break up spain into spain and catalonia. Lets break up the UK as well
@@totalnike03 United States and Spain arent failed states in 30+ year constant civil strife and infighting bro, nobody in these countries likes each other so wtf is the point of a unified state. You would rather they stayed in constant warfare and decay for decades rather than breaking them up and letting the new countries develop themselves? Africa is a shitshow compared to Asia, Europe, and the Americas. Some drastic measures need to be taken in order for the dream of a stable and prosperous Africa to be realised.
@@totalnike03the US is more properly about seven culturally, religiously, and ethnically distinct regions. But the devolution of powers through federalism really has helped keep the peace Our biggest split now is the rural/urban divide.
the people chose to kill him and now you want qaddafi to take responsibility for this mess. i thought democracy would solve all their problems? let democracy work for them and watch as these people go back to the stone age.@@qrsx66
The history of Libya and its current trajectory is interesting but you have to stop with these speculative, click-bait video concepts. It undermines TLDRs credibility
@@hybridstryker233 It had his flaws but it was stable for decades pre 2011 before the West decided to destroy it. Libya had a better livingstandard than most european countries
Honestly, this is one of the least well put together/most Western biased videos I’ve seen out of TL;DR. You all should really stick to European News because you clearly either don’t understand or care enough to understand the situation on the ground for most Libyans who clearly don’t see a political split of the country as being practical for extremely sensible geopolitical reasons.
Libya is already two separate countries in all but name. Whether anyone recognizes it or not doesn't matter. It's like how Somaliland has been separate from Somalia since the early 1990s, but nobody recognized it. In Libya, it's even more apparent since both sides are backed by different power brokers. I think people forget that Libya was not created by the Italians, it was created by the Ottomans and before that the region around Benghazi tended to be aligned with Egypt and the region around Tripoli tended to be aligned with the Maghreb. Whether this split is recognized or not doesn't matter, as there doesn't seem to be a powerbroker willing to put enough military heft to force the two sides back together, and that's when you considered that militarily dominating Benghazi and Tripoli with naval blockade would be the easiest naval action any country with a real navy could do. No, I think countries like France or Turkey (who are the main powers interacting with Libya) are more interested in the current status quo, because it means that both sides can get oil from Libya on the cheap.
Gaddafi only delays the inevitable. We saw what happened to Tito and Yugoslavia. While an autocrat is useful to unite different tribes and races under one government by force, the result is that the unity is only defined by that one person only
Libya could split into two : East Libya & West Libya Zimbabwe could split into two: Mthwakazi Kingdom & Zimbabwe Nigeria could split into two: Biafra & Nigeria My conclusion: itwill take another 400 years to make Africa one country!!
-He is still liked by the Arab world. -NATO didn't 'decide' to intervene, they followed a UN mandate. -That was not a halved GDP. I'm sure commenters will/have pointed out the rest of the inaccuracies, while you covered the topic itself well, your background before the story was just inaccurate. Love you guys, but the research on this needed more.
@@suleyman8696 I hear it from my Arab friends all the time, like anytime the conversation of colonialism or progress in northern Africa comes up. I spend quite some time in Turkey, where I also hear praise for the guy. Post-Gaddafi, hatred certainly rose incredibly, praise did not stop, however.
@@suleyman8696it was his craziness that made Libya 4rth richest and prosperous country with better living standards than most European countries from a shithole. It was his craziness that would have crushed us dollar and euro with the gold dinar which would have benefitted entire Africa and also middle east
If all he did and put in place was so great, how could it lead to such a situation and not persist by itself ? Or his system was rotten and it was doomed to collapse into chaos after him. If so, how great was he to not prepare for a sustainable system and society ?
it's SY-RE-NAY-CA, not whatever the hell it was you came up with. Butchering Ukrainian place names I can understand, they're difficult to pronounce, but come on now.
I just hope this doesn't start an East versus West Libyan rap feud. The last thing that country needs right now is a string of diss tracks. God help us if someone's mother gets insulted. But if someone gets served? Even God has his limits. Prayers for Libya.
there will be no proper division. Libyan elections again are gonna happen in 2024 as hafter is finally budging. he could turn into a general instead of the leader.
That was the plan all along. To fragment the country. All the former colonial powers, UK, France, Italy (including US now for many decades) has used it as a modus operandi to split countries into factions and weaken them, that way they remove them as threats to their hegemony. Gaddafi as the central authority was a threat with his economical ambitions, influencing the rest of Africa to overthrow the post-colonial grip that Europe still had on the continent.
Exactly, finally someone said it. libya will forever be 1, united, also there will be no proper division. Libyan elections again are gonna happen in 2024 as hafter is finally budging. he could turn into a general instead of the leader.
Colonialism moved lots of places in Africa into a corner where all available options were always going to lead to conflict. Keeping the colonial borders causes civil war, and redrawing borders to match ethnic lines causes ethnic cleansing
Would there be more ethnik cleansing if borders were redrawned to match ethnik lines, really ? Or it's the non redrawing of borders that call for ethnik cleansing, or at least cultural genocide ? I think it would be less, I prefer to see borders moving than people being displaced or killed, or culture and language being exterminated. We see too much of those !
@@qrsx66 The Ottomans were not a colonial power per se. Colonialism uses the "colonies" in order to enrich the ruling country. Whereas in the Ottoman Empire Libya was simply another province or territory of the Empire just like any other province. So the Ottoman rule in Africa is much different when compared with the colonial powers of the time.
i gotta ask you. Do people miss Gaddafi?, i have relatives from libya who fled in 2011. They celebrated and showed me videos and photos of 54th al fateh anniversary. They loved Gaddafi more than anything, always wanna see other opinions.
@@bankruptwizard I am from a city called Sirte. Literally everyone in my city loves Goddafi ..Some areas of Libya are not much, but most of Libya loves him
@@محمدمازق-غ1خ my relatives were from bani walid. Seeing recent news its a Gaddafi stronghold. May peace and prosperity come to you again and to libya.
@@bankruptwizardwe as tripoli ppl *west Libya* love Gaddafi and his policies But the east are such dumb ppl They always want their cities to become more developed than the capital Also bcuz the most of the oil comes from the east That's why they want to spilt the country Well as we know the capital always needs to be the most beautiful city in every country But They had a second side and they want their city to be the best although its a shit hole and its ppl are dumber than dumb They wanted the revolution And now they want to bring a crazy sick person called "heftar" to lead Libya Like why did you make a revolution in 2011 and now you want to bring a worse dictator than Gaddafi to lead Libya
When Europeans are going to learn that splitting any country never solves anything and is a bad idea ? It causes more problems for the country in question and the world. How many examples will it take before it becomes evident?
Do you think Yugoslavia was better as a single country? Should Ireland reunite with the UK? Should the Turks be kicked out of Northern Cyprus? Would South Korea be better off if North Korea had been allowed to conquer it?
@maninredhelm First Ireland is not UK, you cannot colonize and exploit people and then claim they are a natural part of you, second why would you assume that one Korea would be like the North and not the South ? Remember Germany ? And yes, Yugoslavia was one of the largest countries in Europe, Its breakup is still causing conflicts. Most of the major hotspots are a result of some European snob drawing a line without considering the language, religion, and territorial constraints of the place. Look closely wherever you see straight lines on the map, 9 out of 10 times, you will find that people of that region did not had a say in it.
As a Libyan, no it isn't going to split n only the politicians r fighting against each other for their own benefit, not forget the media n agenda of outsiders who trying so hard to implant this idea. It even socially united not like other countries that had splited before. I see a lot of misconceptions in comments especially from neighborhood countries, I would say mind ur own business n leave us alone.
NATO has not invaded a single country. In Libya, the UNITED NATIONS sanctioned the intervention, and it included other members too, like UAE, Qatar and Jordan.
@@nietzscheankant6984😂😂😂😂😂😂 NATO hasn't invaded. It was France which bombed Libya. Entire NATO bombed Iraq and Afghanistan so what you talking about😂😂😂 open your eyes dude
@@Myanmartiger921 not saying he was a great guy. He wasn’t. But the living standards were high and in 2010 Libya was the 5th largest economy in Africa. Now it barely has one lol.
A split may not satisfy any party within Libya. Before Italian Colonization in the early 20th Century, The 3 regions of Libya that we see in this video were United. It’s also important To note that other groups such as the Tuareg have been fighting in Libya and other North African Countries for many years in hopes of creating their own national identity and sovereign nation. And lastly, if a split were to occur anytime soon in any way, The Libyans would still face troubles and issues such as Terrorism, reconstruction, reviving their economies and etc. which will be very complicated to confront not to mention that there will be disputes on who controls the oil fields (Key to Libya’s economy) and etc.
But that’s just what I believe might happen (If a Split were to occur). I could perhaps be wrong. If I am, please correct me and I apologize for the poor grammar.
I'd like to express all my sympathy for the Touareg, Berber, Amazigh, Kabyl people. I've heard that in Lybia, they were opressed during Khaddafi's rule, and could work on some revival or the culture and language since, even under instability. They totally deserve to preserve and developp their culture and language. Are they in the green portion of Lybia showned in this video ?
@@qrsx66 As of now I believe the groups that you mentioned are now currently allied with the Libyan GNA. But I don’t know if they still have the idea of creating a sovereign state. Nobody really does seem to know what they are up to now. But I hope all is well and that they at least get to preserve their culture and grow it.
This is incorrect because Libya was never stable enough in the aftermath of the NATO intervention to set up a democratic government. The Western supported rebel government was not even popular or supported by the Libyan people before the NATO encouraged and backed uprising/coup took place.
"It looked like Libya might be on the way to prosperity and democracy" the narrator says of a country ruled by a very popular leader overseeing the most prosperous country on the African continent at that time. These colonizers man
How about in stead of take a cheap shot at people you instead stay on topic? It's how there is always someone who wants to make the discussion about colonization.
Thanks for discussing my country. Though I might add that Cyrenaica being split from Tripolitania is actually a modern idea brought from Italian rule in the 20th century. Modern western Libya and eastern Libya along with Fezzan in the south were united for centuries before Italian colonialism. So no, a split doesn’t make as much historical sense as many seem to think.
true and italy were the one who wanted the idea, we have many more states, kingdoms and empires which we built on our own. Also there will be no division. Libyan elections again are gonna happen in 2024 as hafter is finally budging. he could turn into a general instead of the leader.
@@hssh7 or it could be the other way around, or he may back out. There are many possibilities
@@hssh7"Built on our own." They aren't the same country, and you act as if the Ottomans didn't rule over the land for so long. The region belonged to hundreds of different countries and Empires, none of which were Libya.
@@elementallynx493 Ahmed Karamanli (then-ruler of autonomous Tripolitania) expanded the border around the early 1700s to include what later became Fezzan and Cyrenaica. Tripolitania was independent from the Ottomans from 1711 to 1835. Yes, built on our own.
😊
I'm libyan and we want to unify the country not split it. Libya will never be divided, we may have different political opinions but we all love libya❤️🇱🇾🇱🇾
Then it would be a great idea to stop killing each other. Just saying...
The west wants to split the world into small portions so they can steal your wealth much easier
BMA
You love Libya that's why you mercilessly ki#led your leader!
You reap what you sow!!
Muslims are not allowed to revolt against a "muslim leader", Syria, Iraq, Libya,etc., are all the results of showing your back to Islam & going exactly what Allah has ordained not to!!!
What are the differences between the East and West? Are there economic differences, ideological or demographical, or is it a tribalist issue?
East Libyans don't like something called Libya
Tell them that
Crazy how Libya just 50-60 years ago was a booming nation with a higher gdp per capita than most western countries.
@Ric9k-mu8sj schizo posting 101
@@liviuadrian1101Explain how that was "schizo" it is a fact.
Thanks to the salafist jihadi groups funded by qatari and turkey, libya are detroyed now😂😂
Correction, outside powers think it’s easier to split Libya up.
Libyans generally understand how financially/economically impractical that would be to do.
Yes exactly we libyans will never want our country to split🇱🇾
Source?
@@Anthony-db7cshes prolly libyan
@@Hoppp4848 didn’t know one person represented everyone else’s view.
@@Anthony-db7cs do you live in libya?
There isn't actually much of a debate inside Libya about splitting up the country. In fact, both parties want to unify the country, just under THEIR OWN rule, as the West needs the oil fields in the East and South, while the East needs the prestige, power and relevance of the capital Tripoli and surrounding metropolitan area.
Sure, Libya would do well in federalizing and devolving powers inside the country, but that's all, a split is not in anyone's interests.
In fact, separation is more of a threat used by both sides to pressure the other for more power.
Ah, so a "One Libya policy" situation then.
If only they researched it
@@benknowles9633 they don't care about portraying what goes down on the ground level. I've followed this channel for a while and I noticed that they portray stuff the way they want it to seem rather what it actually is
A split would benefit the west and is this the most likely outcome
@@revenger211 They churn out a huge amount of material in a short amount of time, of course the average quality of that material isn't going to be that good in the end, so they will brush over stuff or just follow what some news articles are saying.
I found it odd that Benghazi was described as being in the “North” and not the East.
We’re not splitting. Despite out problems we see each other as brothers
Do you not wish for it to develop.
I hope u do not split but eastern side is controlled by Russia
@@Solid_Snake99 The Eastern faction is also backed by France, interestingly. Strange, given that Russia and France are competing against each other in West Africa (like in Niger).
@@SP-rt4ig
France doesn't want an Islamist government, which is why they support Haftar.
The other side supports Tripoli because 'Russia bad' basically
The entire purpose of bombing Libya was to uproot the last Soviet-aligned governments in North Africa.
hi I'm a Chadian citizen who was Born and live his whole life in Libya and I saw firsthand the effect of the Libyan civil wars and its aftermath and with all due respect to the TLDR team from editors to researchers but I have to respectively disagree although yes for all practical reasons Libya is basically two countries but nobody in the political establishment from the west or the east seen to have an actual real will to divide Libya into two entities politically completely independent from each other, it doesn't matter if either of them genuinely believe in Libyan unity or simply and let's be honest simply trying to achieve their own personal interest. Nobody is benefiting from Libyan division not the political establishment and obviously needless to say not people of Libya
I see you're living up to your country's name!!! What a Chad!! Respect my guy, from Tunisia ❤️🥰
I salute you. I want to ask you, as someone who lived his whole life in Libya: Is it true that during Gaddafi's time education was free, as well as that the state paid for your stay at foreign faculties, and even more importantly, is it true that that the electricity was not paid for, and that you were provided with free houses immediately after marriage or finishing school? In my country, there is a common belief that all of the above is true. I would like you to answer honestly and objectively, so that you know exactly how things are. All the best.
@@Ivan-NZ Yes it's 100% true, I fact most of this service still free to this day although the quality had fallen immensely depends on where are you in Libya special in case of the electricity
@@Ivan-NZ I Tunisian and I know it's true! Many of my friends went to Libya at that time for work or marriage, or buisness, everything in Libya was cheap, so people, especially from the south near Libya used to buy a lot of stuff for cheap and sell it here for a great margin, mark-up, my father did it once for laughs since he already has a job, it was the best moment in my childhood because I got so many chocolate and candy and toys, I was the class most popular because I brought so many delicious stuff every day for 2 weeks
A question what are your thoughts on Gadaffi?
That has got to be the most cursed pronunciation of Cyrenaica I've ever heard
It's more like Sy-rè-nay-ika btw
It really got me like:💀💀💀
I read this comment before watching the video, and thought: "it can't be that bad". Then I got to the part when he pronounces it. It is that bad. Cursed af.
Don't forget about Tripolitania 😂
I mean, with that pronunciation it's more like the land of sirens, "Sirensia"
I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure that Cyrenaica is pronounced "seer-a-NAY-ca" and not "cy-REN-cia."
That’s correct. They totally screwed up the pronunciation
I cringed so hard when he said that. That's how bad it was
They do that constantly. I like TLDR and I want to support them but honestly, they need to take this a little more seriously, put in a little effort and strive to be better if they want to be taken seriously.@@daco3557
It is pronounced Kirenaika
The video was going well and then this unjustified incorrect pronunciation popped, probably taken from nowhere. Ouch.
You forgot to mention that NATO members France and Greece support Haftar’s LNA government ( + Russia, Saudi Arabia and UAE ) V.S. The U.S, Turkey, Italy and Britain ( + Qatar, Pakistan and Iran ) supporting the Tripoli government with weapons, drones and naval vessels. This is the current Libyan Proxy War 2014 - Present.
I should expected to find you here
France + Russia vs USA + Iran is one of the stranger alliances I've seen.
randomize teams
@@pierrecurie Nigerian civil war :
You forget to mention that while the western powers supported the Tripoli government from the start, France supported the military government!
France has its own agenda. It usually doesn't follow other western powers that are American puppets. Like France, other countries support Haftar, mainly Russia, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates.
that, my friend, is what france does
Because both governments said they'd stop the refugee boots for money
Why was that the case
@@jeddgangman4502 because its france, and they have a thing for supporting dictators as long as they back france
I dont think libya would split, both populations of the east and the west want a united libya, elections wont happen soon but a united banking system was a good start and a united military is in the current talks. Its a very slow path but i hope the best for libya and libyans like me
As a tunisian I approve that western libyans are closer to maghrebis than they might think
Remove you liberal perspective out of the discussion
No Libyan person wants the split
I smell Tunisian takeover
Joking ya Khoiya
I love Tunisia🇱🇾❤️🇹🇳
@@EM-tx3ly
Tunisia tryna get bigger
True, Tripolitania and Tunisia have been under the same governments for most of history even, don't get any ideas though 😜
Libya was the last Ottoman Land in the North Africa and it was occupied by Italy. Ottomans lost the war because there was also an ongoing Balkan Wars. Then Italy joined the Axis in WWII and lost Libya to Britian and France.
We know, what's your point?
@@dominant2576 he is turks thats why
The Balkan wars happened because the ottomans couldn’t defend Libya so they saw its weakness and attacked
@@dominant2576 most likely to explain a bit more for the people who don't know the history of Libya since the explanation from TLDR News is just of what happened in the years around Libya becoming independent.
I was just trying to expand modern day Libya's history
Cyrenaica to Cyrenzia is a feat of mispronunciation that deserves an award.
At 4:17, you state that NATO decided to intervene. While NATO indeed intervened, it was under a UN mandate (1970 and 1973). Framing it as a purely NATO endeavor is a misleading narrative. While the NATO lead coalition made many mistakes, it was sanctioned by the UNSC, meaning even Russia and China were not opposed to this intervention.
And since when we're Russia and China the bastons of freedom?
Not being opposed to something is not the same as joining it. It's just another disgusting example of the practices of Americania rules the waves.
UN mandate is how the members of UNSC provide diplomatic cloth to their geopolitical interests. China and Russia don't oppose one NATO move, and in exchange NATO UNSC members don't oppose another China or Russia move. So in the end, it's not really that misleading.
Sweden, Qatar, Jordan and the UAE also joined militarily so it wasn't exclusively NATO
True, but NATO abused that mandate, since 1973 resolution was based on the R2P, so with no threat for the civil population NATO didn't have the right to intervene, and that was achieved some days after the riots thanks to the meetins that the African Union held with gaddafi. Even if the civil population was still under threat, NATO had the right to intervene in order to just protect them, but not to provoque a change of regime. They should have done like when the first gulf war took place, which was a justified intervention since It was based on protecting the soverignty of other state and they didnt provoque a regime change.
For 6:18 we was only split but we fought for our independence, libya was always one country whether you like it or not, the name libya comes from "libu" and there were kingdoms and states in libu
Can you please make a video on the Ustica plane accident, in which France allegedly shot down a commercial airliner to assassinate Gaddafi. Recently the former Italian prime minister Amato mentioned this asking for the matter being finally clarified.
As a Tunisian, Libya spliting in two is a big NO
Maghreb states and the arab world will surely act, and any attempt of splitting won't be recognized, ever since the split of Sudan, the Arab commonwealth isn't the same.
therefore the idea to split libya will never occur.
One of them have to die or one gotta control everything, nothing will be split, you take all, or lose all.
Thank you
"One of them have to die or one gotta control everything, nothing will be split, you take all, or lose all."
The mentality that plague the Middle East, that prepares conflict after conflict, persecution after persecution, endless cycle of revenge and massacres. You can complain about NATO and the CIA !!
Please develop this idea : can it be unity when there are winners and losers, tyrants and slaves, opressors and persecuted ?
Merge into a unified arab magreb superpower
I don't wonder how Tunisia was low key the most successful Arab Spring experience unlike the sh&$ that went down in my country (Syria) ..... I think that's because most of you are real real educated and wise people ... shout out to my fellow Tunisians 🇸🇾❤️🇹🇳
And peace for Lybia and all the Arab World 🇱🇾❤🙏
@@Badranltd ان شاء الله يعود الشام شامخا لا مناص من التحسن تحياتي من تونس 🇹🇳🌹🇸🇾
Inshallah we split peacefully
Could you clarify the halving of the GDP per capita mentioned at 3:18? From the graph shown Libya's GDP per capita most definitely did not halve from 1992 to 2002.
That graph is weird. Being lazy and just taking the graph Google gives me:
Lybia gdp/capita:
1992: 7622$
2002: 3789$
So just at a glance it seems accurate.
GDP per capita is not a real measure of economic output or living standards, it is especially problematic for energy-exporting countries, whose GDP rises and falls depending on commodity prices. After the economic crisis, most industries didn't need a lot of oil and gas, so oil and gas prices fell during that time, which meant a huge fall in GDP for Libya. But after the end of the crisis, it reversed that trend again.
When the entire economy is dependent on oil exports it is not really that unreasonable.
@@mardasman428 GDP per capita is the only reasoneble way to measure to wealth of a country. There might be problems if you don't consider inequality, but there are no better ways
@@AmirSatt Yes, exactly, it is the best tool to statistically rank and compare economies in NUMBERS, but that doesn't necessarily mean that these numbers are always a good measure of economic activity or the strength of an economy overall. In the end it's still a flawed way to categorize it and it's dangerous to take it at face value without understanding its shortcomings.
"We did it Patrick we saved Libya!"
(Over 10 years later):
As a Moroccan 🇲🇦 I support a united libya 🇱🇾 & a united maghreb region similar to U.K or Scandinavia
It would be a superpower
The Graph shown at 3:25 does in no way support the claim, that the GDP per capita halved between 1992 and 2002.
The "population density" map at 6:25, showing only one colour, doesn't really help to understand the actual population density. Why was the orange region in the bottom left not explained?
Unironically, Libya, like Iraq, would have been much more stable if the West didn't yeet their leaders (Gaddafi and Hussein). Imagine, yeeting an autocrat and not expecting the state to fall into despair.
I don’t agree, a war was already underway in Libya without NATO involvement. The only difference if NATO wasn’t involved is that Gadaffis regime may have still been in control of a large part of the country like Syria. I believe Iraq would have ended up the same way
Ehhh I mean there was a civil war already going on and if no intervention occurred it would just be another Syria. Plus Gaddafi was literally a pedo
Iraq under Saddam was no stable place. Saddam had already become overtly hostile again after reneging on the international oversight commissions set up after the Gulf War in 1998. The US and UK were already from then on engaged in conflict with Saddam in enforcing the mandated northern and southern Iraqi no-fly zones, to keep him from bombing his Kurdish and Shia populations. From then on everyone expected him to ramp up the chemical weapons production like he had and used in Iran and on his Kurds in the past, especially since he was building up his forced in the Republican Guard. And don't forget he tried to have George H. W. Bush assassinated during a visit to Kuwait in 1993. Saddam's Iraq was no good for the international community, let alone the local region, after numerous wars with his neighbors.
The main problem was after removing him, America tried to set up a Western style government and individualistic consensus democracy, but without the necessary local cultural underpinning that is necessary for it (and can only develop over time and autochthonously), similarly to the failure in Afghanistan. At the very least today, Iraq is no longer vying to invade Kuwait or Iran again.
Both countries would have ended up like Syria without western involvement. You forget about the Arab spring. And Qadaffi would have lost with or without NATO involvement.
@@Solo-vh9fm Bullshit. The war was instigated precisely by NATO and it was involved right from the start.
as a Libyan this video is poorly researched. there is no sentiment of spliting up the country between the general populas, at most youd find people disagreeing with whether tripoli should remain capital or not. also we wouldnt have been in this mess were it not for nato pushing for its interests in libya.
Gold standard dinar.
Other african and Middle eastern countries: nope
@@AmirSattand now they are suffering and Europe was ruling over Africa
Can't wait to hear about this in the Editorial!
As a maghrebi, really sad to see this :(, I wish Libya had political stability.
...but they have clearly shown that they do not have the mastery to self govern. Just look how Gaddafi was killed and these so called muslims shouting AllhoAkbar and killing an innocent man . Has anyone killed the man who got Gaddafis golden gun . No . Some will say oh he was a dictator . Is the west not a dictator. Fools are easy to fool .
Western capitalists wont allow stable challangers to their rule.
Thank NATO for your freedom are u not satisfied ?
@@twirlyturd4364 You do not sing the national anthem and charge at the guns just because NATO paid you too.
Well, maybe you would, shill. You do seem susceptible to propaganda. But a country in revolt? Get real.
Unify into Maghrebia, it would be a superpower
Having the capital in Sirte might help a lot (see Canada, Australia etc).
There’s also a great story about when the Greeks and the Carthaginians (?) were running Cyrenaica and Tripolitania respectively and couldn’t agree where the border should be.
Check out the Philani brothers (sp). Great story.
Mussolini also put a grand arch about 20 k from the old border. Gone now...
Sirte was/is a pro Gaddafi city... Would be a very controversial choice to most libyans.
@@adrianzanolinot to mention near his birthplace, neither side would want to risk his son gaining more popularity from them
@@cuber5003in a fully democratic system it would be totally fine. Washington DC is dominated by Democrats, and was chosen as a linkage between the North and South when it was built.
@@everettduncan7543 but Libya is not a democratic country... It isn't even a country at the moment, it's more like solving the american civil war by randomly declaring Dallas the new capital of the federation and hoping one of the two sides give up their goal.
@@everettduncan7543 Washington DC isn't associated with a controversial leader, especially one like Gaddafi who traumatized many Libyans in the first civil war not too Long ago.
The last 1/4 of a video being skipped must kill viewer retention
Not going to mention the fact that Gaddafi did a lot of good for his people
They did mention it, aren't you paying attention? ^^'
@@_jpg where? I didn't hear it at all
@@maherhamadouch2005 Beginning around 2:20
@@_jpgthat was about 5 seconds
@@maherhamadouch2005do you want them to dedicate 40 mins on everything gidafi did or focus on the video topic
Nice analysis! Sorry for pointing it out, but you butchered the name Cyrenaica 😅 It's supposed to be like Si-re-nay-ka. The name is ancient Greek, Κυρηναϊκή, and it was a confederation of Greek cities until it was conquered by the Romans and later the Arabs
Says Regan, the mad dog of the West ..😂
Mad dog recognizes other mad dogs
Everyone except (mostly American) Conservatives hate the old asshole Reagan.
@@AmirSattLibya isn't even middle eastern
@@AmirSatt 😅😅😅😅
Whenever someone is like hey we’re offering a lifetime membership for as long as we exist it never looks good.
As a British person you are saying splitting Libya makes sense??! How atrocious! Maybe the UK should be dissolved and 3 independent countries not controlled by London should emerge - that makes sense because before the English invasions and conquests we had Scotland, Wales and Ireland who absolutely loved the English!
They’re really biased, always spewing westerner propaganda.
Gaddafi was awful, but, everything that went wrong in Libya was/is because of the west, from colonization, puppet regimes, attempted assassinations, disarming Libya by illegally invading Iraq, fueling the civil war and arming terror groups.
These guys call themselves impartial journalists but all they are is imperialist hacks. How is he quoting Reagan and making it seem like Blair(the war criminal)’s visit was the economic highlight of Libya for the past century?
Rule Britannia
@@Juan-qu4oj take a look at who is PM of brittania today 😝😂🤣🤣🤣
Just a note that it might not be the best lense to understand or analyze a situation, to only translating it to a situation you know.
The mispronunciation of Cyrenaica was hilarious 😂
You must mean Sairencia.
Good! You did show the divisions in Antiquity, which reflect the very long political separations between these regions going back to the Roman times.
3:11 France tried too but was so good they shot an Italian Civilian plane full of people instead.
next time please reconsider the role of Italy in Lybia as it is fundamental for both countries during the last 100 years
aye! i see the influence in the split of the roman empire can still can be seen like that.
لن ننقسم نحن دولة اتحادية اشتراكية واحدة تحيا ليبيا 🇱🇾⚒
Is poverty big there
@ashey68 not really we have lots of problems but poverty is not one if them
I dont know much about the topic, but I see a lot of passionate people (i'm guessing Libyans) calling out what seem to be inaccuracies in the video. Kudos to the fact checkers - I will be looking for other sources of info on the subject.
But keep in mind that even from a Lybian, there's no absolute truth about unity, independence or historical view. They are ideologies, sometimes, it just feels great to defend a grand idea of "unity." But you could sense some divisions even under Muhammar Khaddafi's iron rule, to today on the ground situation.
Or some will defend "unity" but only agree if it's their vision/camp that is at the helm.
"Unity" for person A might be different from "unity" for person B and those two persons might participate in the split while just hearing them talk you would think they're together.
As Libyan... I can confirm none of GNU, GNS, HoR or HCS wanna divide this country, I've lived here all my life and the people always want a united one country, even if the idea of Separation was pushed from outside, it's not True, the 2014 revolution or Civil war, coup call it what you want wasn't a separate move, as Cyrenaican fr Benghazi i Call for United State of Libya and no more discussions about Separation because if we wanted it, we would have got it a years ago.
Is poverty big there
@@ashey68We have many issues but poverty have never been one, we have a higher gdp per capita and HDI than north africa and ukraine
@@ashey68 you gor your answer honey ^^
@@supersosta7827 is he right?
@@ashey68 yeah he is right... We have many problems regarding basically everything but it was never poverty or hunger
6:51 nice glitch
Libya become another Korean peninsula
lol, no, there will be no proper division. Libyan elections again are gonna happen in 2024 as hafter is finally budging. he could turn into a general instead of the leader.
@@hssh7Lol, no. Libya just turn into another division of Italy, as it always meant to be.
@GrammarNaziAUS had a good chuckle on that one, keep going
@@hssh7oh my sweet summer child
One more for the totally unbiased channel
Libya is the 16th largest country in the world. Split in half even close to equally both new countries would be bigger than France. Just some context
Well, if it does happen, I would say it is because it is part of a supremely obvious pattern of partitioning which includes South Africa, Somalia, Zaire, Yugoslavia, Sudan, India, Korea, and so on. Did everyone miss the now deceased husband of the infamous Valerie Plame getting mixed up with a particular figure in Sudan who bases his investment decisions on foreknowledge of that particular partitioning playing out? Apparently so.
A figure in Sudan basing his investment decisions on a pre-existing and popular independence movement achieving their stated goal? Wow, what a Nostradamus...
Quite an irony when Gaddafi remains mourned by most of Sub-Saharan Africans, yet disliked by the Arab world (including North Africa). The division is not about Libya, it is about North vs South of Africa.
Weirder still, when one takes into account his Arabian supremacist policies in Libya, and his Islamic beliefs, when Sub-Saharan Africa is neither Arabic, nor Islamic, outside the fucking terrorists.
No he is not disliked by the north Africans. Maybe the government but not the people
@@asharahmad1068 He insulted Saudi King and questioned other Arab governments. Meanwhile Arabs are too tribal to accept it. Saudis do not give a damn on his death.
I think breaking up a few countries in Africa would solve alot of ongoing civil war. Somalia is another country which forcefully needs to be broken into 3 in order for stability to be achieved. Theres no point in having the same culture, religion and language if everyone despises each other through past tribal issues. It will take centuries for these countries to move away from Tribal governments, breaking them up is a quick solution. Doesnt matter if there are 1000 countries in africa, so long as stability is achieved. Europe had decades of wars, rebellions and border skirmishs which define its modern day borders.
While were at it, lets break up the united states in northern and southern states? Lets break up spain into spain and catalonia. Lets break up the UK as well
@@totalnike03 United States and Spain arent failed states in 30+ year constant civil strife and infighting bro, nobody in these countries likes each other so wtf is the point of a unified state. You would rather they stayed in constant warfare and decay for decades rather than breaking them up and letting the new countries develop themselves?
Africa is a shitshow compared to Asia, Europe, and the Americas. Some drastic measures need to be taken in order for the dream of a stable and prosperous Africa to be realised.
@@totalnike03Who drew the lines?
Not "decades", the correct word is "millenia"!
@@totalnike03the US is more properly about seven culturally, religiously, and ethnically distinct regions.
But the devolution of powers through federalism really has helped keep the peace
Our biggest split now is the rural/urban divide.
Why do people assume democracy and prosperity go together?
Some of the poorest nations are democracies.
Gadhafi before his autocratic era was the best thing to ever happen to Africa
How so?
He killed the indegenous amazigh people and arabised the rest
Look at the graph, he saw declining GDP literallly every year under his tenure.
@@galfinsp7216Libya was filthy rich
@@yodesuyoso do the americants
the power of democracy at full view
Please explain
do i need to explain the clusterfuck these people made libya to what is now? they wanted democracy they instead got ash.@@linusfotograf
You must admit that Kaddhafi had a total power on this country for decades, and that the state of Lybia today is also his responsability, his legacy.
the people chose to kill him and now you want qaddafi to take responsibility for this mess. i thought democracy would solve all their problems? let democracy work for them and watch as these people go back to the stone age.@@qrsx66
The history of Libya and its current trajectory is interesting but you have to stop with these speculative, click-bait video concepts. It undermines TLDRs credibility
Kernel Gadaffi fought against terrorist . He didn't support them . Where did u get your information from ?
Well qatari and turkiye supported the jihadi terrorists😂😂
TBF seeing how they're doing, being split into two might be the best thing for them, since they're already are.
Libya was stable under gaddafi
🤦♂️🧢🧢🧢😂😂😂😂
@@hybridstryker233 It had his flaws but it was stable for decades pre 2011 before the West decided to destroy it. Libya had a better livingstandard than most european countries
Italy was stable under musolini
Libya was stable under Idris 😂
Germany was stable under Hitler! Until 1945 happened🤣
Libya will never split
It already has.
@@Fummy007Split on paper but the people are still one 🇱🇾☝️
Honestly, this is one of the least well put together/most Western biased videos I’ve seen out of TL;DR. You all should really stick to European News because you clearly either don’t understand or care enough to understand the situation on the ground for most Libyans who clearly don’t see a political split of the country as being practical for extremely sensible geopolitical reasons.
Libya is already two separate countries in all but name. Whether anyone recognizes it or not doesn't matter. It's like how Somaliland has been separate from Somalia since the early 1990s, but nobody recognized it. In Libya, it's even more apparent since both sides are backed by different power brokers. I think people forget that Libya was not created by the Italians, it was created by the Ottomans and before that the region around Benghazi tended to be aligned with Egypt and the region around Tripoli tended to be aligned with the Maghreb.
Whether this split is recognized or not doesn't matter, as there doesn't seem to be a powerbroker willing to put enough military heft to force the two sides back together, and that's when you considered that militarily dominating Benghazi and Tripoli with naval blockade would be the easiest naval action any country with a real navy could do. No, I think countries like France or Turkey (who are the main powers interacting with Libya) are more interested in the current status quo, because it means that both sides can get oil from Libya on the cheap.
I bet they miss gaddafi now. Look at this place. It's destroyed
Doubtful. The dude is the reason they fell. What will you do when Gaddafi decides to shoot at protesters which he did in 2011 starting this civil war?
Gaddafi only delays the inevitable. We saw what happened to Tito and Yugoslavia. While an autocrat is useful to unite different tribes and races under one government by force, the result is that the unity is only defined by that one person only
@@Anverse-14difference being this isn’t really and ethnic conflict and is mostly a political power grab issue.
Libya should be kept that way but the country was too corrupt. But we might try to keep Libya united.
Libya could split into two : East Libya & West Libya
Zimbabwe could split into two: Mthwakazi Kingdom & Zimbabwe
Nigeria could split into two: Biafra & Nigeria
My conclusion: itwill take another 400 years to make Africa one country!!
Africa is a large continent with very different people in it. There is not logical reason for it to be one country.
@@JUAN_OLIVIER India exists
@@sajeucettefoistunevaspasmemy favorite continent, india
@@adambrande it's not considered a continent because it's a country but deserves to be a continent just asz much as europe
Are you crazy
Africa is continent their is no one who can make it one country
And we don't want one African country
-He is still liked by the Arab world.
-NATO didn't 'decide' to intervene, they followed a UN mandate.
-That was not a halved GDP.
I'm sure commenters will/have pointed out the rest of the inaccuracies, while you covered the topic itself well, your background before the story was just inaccurate.
Love you guys, but the research on this needed more.
He was seen as a crazy guy in the Arab world
@@suleyman8696 I hear it from my Arab friends all the time, like anytime the conversation of colonialism or progress in northern Africa comes up.
I spend quite some time in Turkey, where I also hear praise for the guy.
Post-Gaddafi, hatred certainly rose incredibly, praise did not stop, however.
@@suleyman8696it was his craziness that made Libya 4rth richest and prosperous country with better living standards than most European countries from a shithole. It was his craziness that would have crushed us dollar and euro with the gold dinar which would have benefitted entire Africa and also middle east
6:16 What the... Cyrencia? Are you even trying? Come on
The Qaddafi leadership was the best period in modern Libyan history
If all he did and put in place was so great, how could it lead to such a situation and not persist by itself ? Or his system was rotten and it was doomed to collapse into chaos after him. If so, how great was he to not prepare for a sustainable system and society ?
Senussi
The last thing anyone needs is Libya divided into two.
I'm not definitely for it nor opposed.
I'm open for anything that suits everyone the best.
Thank you Sarkozy and Cameron, the biggest mess makers in history.
it's SY-RE-NAY-CA, not whatever the hell it was you came up with. Butchering Ukrainian place names I can understand, they're difficult to pronounce, but come on now.
Take it with a bit of humour, pal
Take a chill pill
he doesnt care about people he talked about.
@@rizkyadiyanto7922 He just communicates the news. He's not supposed to care.
@@rafaela.cardenas-heredia9127 at least respect the pronounciation.
Cyrenaica anyway was historically a regional part of the ancient Egyptian Empire anyway
No, no it wasn't only the coastal side was..
And in modern history western Egypt is culturally linguistically cyrenacian
@@Aboda._03exactly
Also the berbers who controlled Egypt for a long time were Libyan 🇱🇾 Berbers
I propose that we name the two nations Lib and Ya.
The best proposition so far !
Theres an editing mistake at 6:50 where the lower half of the screen goes black
I just hope this doesn't start an East versus West Libyan rap feud. The last thing that country needs right now is a string of diss tracks. God help us if someone's mother gets insulted. But if someone gets served? Even God has his limits. Prayers for Libya.
This is libya
- lil Benghazi
there will be no proper division. Libyan elections again are gonna happen in 2024 as hafter is finally budging. he could turn into a general instead of the leader.
@@hssh7 But what if Haftar is revealed to be a mark ass buster? Surely his street cred would take a hit.
As a Libyan this is so wrong on so many levels..
The borders would look gay
😂😂😂
Yeah I dont like it either.
Thats what im saying ☠️
Splitting a nation into two never works well historically. Germany, Korea, France in the 1940's etc.
lol your examples are literally countries forced to split by external forces/countries
@@adambrandeand this is also the case for Libya, lol
That was the plan all along. To fragment the country. All the former colonial powers, UK, France, Italy (including US now for many decades) has used it as a modus operandi to split countries into factions and weaken them, that way they remove them as threats to their hegemony. Gaddafi as the central authority was a threat with his economical ambitions, influencing the rest of Africa to overthrow the post-colonial grip that Europe still had on the continent.
What are you smoking bruh?
@@benjamin-mh3fwdo your research
Yes
@@benjamin-mh3fwwake up.
Exactly, finally someone said it. libya will forever be 1, united, also there will be no proper division. Libyan elections again are gonna happen in 2024 as hafter is finally budging. he could turn into a general instead of the leader.
Shocked, the Egyptians don't want to get their hands inthis dilemma
Colonialism moved lots of places in Africa into a corner where all available options were always going to lead to conflict. Keeping the colonial borders causes civil war, and redrawing borders to match ethnic lines causes ethnic cleansing
They were all united under the ottoman empire for hundreds of years.....
Would there be more ethnik cleansing if borders were redrawned to match ethnik lines, really ? Or it's the non redrawing of borders that call for ethnik cleansing, or at least cultural genocide ?
I think it would be less, I prefer to see borders moving than people being displaced or killed, or culture and language being exterminated. We see too much of those !
@@Doge811 The Ottoman empire is just another of those colonial empires. I thought Africans didn't like them.
@@qrsx66 The Ottomans were not a colonial power per se. Colonialism uses the "colonies" in order to enrich the ruling country. Whereas in the Ottoman Empire Libya was simply another province or territory of the Empire just like any other province. So the Ottoman rule in Africa is much different when compared with the colonial powers of the time.
Great vidéo!
Bro the world is starting to look like an unhistorical hoi4 game
We did it, Patrick! We saved the Libyan democracy!
Roman and Byzantine split 😆🤣
Just got Nebula with your link, hope it helps
As a person from Libyaa lot if what he says not true
i gotta ask you. Do people miss Gaddafi?, i have relatives from libya who fled in 2011. They celebrated and showed me videos and photos of 54th al fateh anniversary. They loved Gaddafi more than anything, always wanna see other opinions.
@@bankruptwizard
I am from a city called Sirte. Literally everyone in my city loves Goddafi ..Some areas of Libya are not much, but most of Libya loves him
@@محمدمازق-غ1خ my relatives were from bani walid. Seeing recent news its a Gaddafi stronghold. May peace and prosperity come to you again and to libya.
@@bankruptwizardwe as tripoli ppl *west Libya* love Gaddafi and his policies
But the east are such dumb ppl
They always want their cities to become more developed than the capital
Also bcuz the most of the oil comes from the east
That's why they want to spilt the country
Well as we know the capital always needs to be the most beautiful city in every country
But They had a second side and they want their city to be the best although its a shit hole and its ppl are dumber than dumb
They wanted the revolution
And now they want to bring a crazy sick person called "heftar" to lead Libya
Like why did you make a revolution in 2011 and now you want to bring a worse dictator than Gaddafi to lead Libya
@@محمدمازق-غ1خis ls poverty big there
"Syrencia" - wtf? :D
Please, work more on pronunciation of place names. It makes your reaserch look bad.
When Europeans are going to learn that splitting any country never solves anything and is a bad idea ? It causes more problems for the country in question and the world. How many examples will it take before it becomes evident?
People think the grass is always greener on the other side, its easier to blame others.
Do you think Yugoslavia was better as a single country? Should Ireland reunite with the UK? Should the Turks be kicked out of Northern Cyprus? Would South Korea be better off if North Korea had been allowed to conquer it?
@maninredhelm First Ireland is not UK, you cannot colonize and exploit people and then claim they are a natural part of you, second why would you assume that one Korea would be like the North and not the South ? Remember Germany ? And yes, Yugoslavia was one of the largest countries in Europe, Its breakup is still causing conflicts. Most of the major hotspots are a result of some European snob drawing a line without considering the language, religion, and territorial constraints of the place. Look closely wherever you see straight lines on the map, 9 out of 10 times, you will find that people of that region did not had a say in it.
@@maninredhelm yes, no, idk its complicated, yes. hope that helps
@@maninredhelmyes it was infinitely better
As a Libyan, no it isn't going to split n only the politicians r fighting against each other for their own benefit, not forget the media n agenda of outsiders who trying so hard to implant this idea.
It even socially united not like other countries that had splited before.
I see a lot of misconceptions in comments especially from neighborhood countries, I would say mind ur own business n leave us alone.
Is poverty big there
Hillary Clinton, quote: "We came, we saw, he died!" ... *evil laughter*
Tells you everything you need to know.
5:34 the map is wrong Ik they’re basing it of the liveau map but the west government has more land reaching sirte
"Nato is a defense organisation" I keep hearing but all I see is Nato attacking other countries...
NATO has not invaded a single country.
In Libya, the UNITED NATIONS sanctioned the intervention, and it included other members too, like UAE, Qatar and Jordan.
@@nietzscheankant6984😂😂😂😂😂😂 NATO hasn't invaded. It was France which bombed Libya. Entire NATO bombed Iraq and Afghanistan so what you talking about😂😂😂 open your eyes dude
Libyans surely regret get tid of the man who kept their country stable, rich and peaceful. Stupid youth and NATO drove Libya from prosperity to ruin.
The youth can always change a nation for the better or the worse. The same could be said about Nazi Germany.
Rich he used to pick girls and have them picked up and use them at night.
@@Myanmartiger921least Libyans have electricity everyday and wouldn't get shot if they left their house
@@Myanmartiger921 not saying he was a great guy. He wasn’t. But the living standards were high and in 2010 Libya was the 5th largest economy in Africa. Now it barely has one lol.
@@Myanmartiger921I bet European media told you that just like Saddam had nukes
A split may not satisfy any party within Libya. Before Italian Colonization in the early 20th Century, The 3 regions of Libya that we see in this video were United. It’s also important To note that other groups such as the Tuareg have been fighting in Libya and other North African Countries for many years in hopes of creating their own national identity and sovereign nation. And lastly, if a split were to occur anytime soon in any way, The Libyans would still face troubles and issues such as Terrorism, reconstruction, reviving their economies and etc. which will be very complicated to confront not to mention that there will be disputes on who controls the oil fields (Key to Libya’s economy) and etc.
But that’s just what I believe might happen (If a Split were to occur). I could perhaps be wrong. If I am, please correct me and I apologize for the poor grammar.
I'd like to express all my sympathy for the Touareg, Berber, Amazigh, Kabyl people. I've heard that in Lybia, they were opressed during Khaddafi's rule, and could work on some revival or the culture and language since, even under instability. They totally deserve to preserve and developp their culture and language.
Are they in the green portion of Lybia showned in this video ?
@@qrsx66 As of now I believe the groups that you mentioned are now currently allied with the Libyan GNA. But I don’t know if they still have the idea of creating a sovereign state. Nobody really does seem to know what they are up to now. But I hope all is well and that they at least get to preserve their culture and grow it.
Muammer Gaddafi was a great leader, NATO took him out because he went against imperialist interests.
The mispronunciation of Cyrenaica was painful to hear. You guys need to double check that kind of stuff, it gives of amateurism.
This is incorrect because Libya was never stable enough in the aftermath of the NATO intervention to set up a democratic government. The Western supported rebel government was not even popular or supported by the Libyan people before the NATO encouraged and backed uprising/coup took place.
Typical NATO orks
That would be interesting
"It looked like Libya might be on the way to prosperity and democracy" the narrator says of a country ruled by a very popular leader overseeing the most prosperous country on the African continent at that time. These colonizers man
How about in stead of take a cheap shot at people you instead stay on topic? It's how there is always someone who wants to make the discussion about colonization.
You want to talk about most prosperous African counties? Rhodesia and Apartheid SF
4:21 Because that's what you do when you don't like someone, you get involved and get him killed. Of course.