Clem vs MaxPax (TvP) - World Team League Winter Playoffs [StarCraft 2]
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- Опубліковано 11 січ 2024
- Clem and MaxPax play in the World Team League Winter 2023 Playoffs.
Match Played : 5th January 2024
Information about this tournament : liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Wor...
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#SC2 #StarCraft2 #Esports - Ігри
![Clem vs Dark (TvZ) - World Team League Winter Playoffs [StarCraft 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-OuMoXsotto/mqdefault.jpg)
The cyclone/medivac micro was godly!
Came on really ?
Clem's micro is insane ^^ I would lose my entire army from one disruptor shot, he dodge like 20 shot's ^^
Let me preemptively say for all the Terran haters. "The only reason Clem is winning now is because Terran is OP 😭😭😭. It has nothing to do with his speed, skill or evolving meta strategy."
@bobbobby8250 the sickening part is at the pro level, protoss have all the disadvantages. Sure, at average levels, disruptirs are a nightmare, but disruptors are generally terrible vs anyone with top tier micro. Protoss is the most punished and disadvantaged race at pro level
I feel the Terran has much better mechanics and units. Imo for the widow mine the Protoss counterpart is the disruptur which has a higher cost, takes more supply and needs more tech, the disruptor has more range but the widow mine is cloaked, shots much faster AND shoots air too. The ghost with their EMP shot almost halves Protoss units and also affects buildings. Units affected by EMP and Anti-Armor missile are basically dead in battle.
The high Templar could deal damage with storm but it’s more vulnerable, has no cloaking, moves slower, and easier to spot due to the moving animation.
For the detection methods, each race has 3 methods (1 unit, 1 structure and 1 ability) but Terran 4.
Zerg has Overseer, Spore crawler and Fungal Growth.
Protoss has Observer, Photon cannon and Revelation
Terra has Raven, missile turret and EMP shot. PLUS Scanner Sweep which doesn’t take up supply from late armies.
Other races need to bring detection to the battle which sometimes is forgotten or destroyed by the enemy to avoid detection, but the Terran can scan anywhere without sacrificing or risking a unit.
And this video shows that even the Stalker’s shot animation could be dealt with picking up units.
In a base race the Terran most certainly win due to steam pack.
Protoss is the only race that doesn’t have any attacking summoned/special units like the auto-Turret from the raven or Locust and brooding from Zerg.
Damaged building for Protoss can never be repaired, just the shields.
Terran building can lyft keeping them safe from land attackers and many times alive like we have seen so many times. Which sometimes keeping that command center alive is the last hope in a game.
My favorite race is Protoss but I like the versatility of the Terran, they seem to have an answer for anything tactic wise, able to fight more fronts and split faster.
Not impossible to win with Protoss but it’s a bit of an uphill battle imo, which is unfair when there’s money played in those tournaments.
Yeah I mean all 3 races have their pros and cons. I will say that scanning for the Terran isn't 100% free though, cause you pick that instead of a mule (which is a significant boost in eco mining), ofc there will always be more scans on hand later on in the game. But it's definitely not 100% free, plus Terran can run out of them as well. Idk I think maybe opening Twilight for Protosses lately isn't the play... Also you said that Protoss doesn't have any attacking summoned/special units, but Protoss does have Oracles, Sentries, and Carriers. Those are the closest units I could think of that might be in a similar vein as Ravens, Swarmhosts, Locusts, Broodlings, etc.
Is there a tourney where players play off race? That would be fun to watch
TvZCraft. Protoss left to forever be an utterly underpowered race.
There is just a lack of good protoss. All toss players are bad compared to Top Terran and Zergs
@@MrFXtremlol what a joke. No good protoss?? So in the past 8 years NO ONE has been a decent protoss enough to win major tournaments? Give me a break. Protoss are the most punishable and disadvantaged race at the pro level. SC2 has become a joke
@@MrFXtrem Since 2018, protoss was already the lagging race in tournament. 6 years = 4 korean military service.
@@MrFXtrem keep telling yourself that.
So u confirm what i said, toss just choose this race when they are kid and love canon rushing; but when they face real talented players their lack of skill is shown to the whole world.@@firebatfit
Oh, man, Clem will get terrans nerfed soon.
0:37 what is clem doing there? looks like a condition that exceeds usual nervousness. insane micro btw, he‘s now officially become the best terran in earth (maru 🥲) imo
If I could only put that cyclone micro on a frame and hang it on my living room...
lately on ladder 3300 I been the following:
1. stalker/adept rush
2. Pylon block terrans natural
3. Gas 1 of terrans geysers If I can
4. Try to defend the pylon with stalker/adept
5. expand 2 times.
6. Get charge lot + robo + obs
It worked well last game that when Terran couldn't take down my 3rd they quit immediately. I think toss needs to get a 3rd base ASAP just like SC1 BW or get wrecked.
Lol I get a good kick out of the comments section with people complaining about protoss losing to terran. Anybody that isn't in Masters 1, or GM doesn't have any ground to speak on balance. Until those higher levels, there will always be something you can improve. I mean hell, even at GM and pro level there is always something to improve. But otherwise it's a bad mindset to immediately blame one of the three races for the reasoning behind why you aren't winning games. Great games played by Clem though, his multitasking, decision making, etc!! Love seeing him really taking off as one of the better Terran players around currently.
lol people complaining about Protoss balance... Nah Clem is just a beast. If Maxpax played Terran and Clem played Protoss, Clem would still be destroying. It's not race, it's skill.
sure Clem is the better player, but pvz still feels onesided, especially the viking collosus interaction. a few of them delete any number of collosus from the game, and they also outrange and counter any protoss air unit.
there is no army that protoss can built that counters bio ghost with vikings or liberators, its alsways gonna go towards gateway disruptor, which can not deal with libs.
every protoss mid to lategame win involves heavily outpositioning them, denying bases, and overwhelming them with masses of worth units, but the protoss army is always getting bullied.
Vikings just counter Collosi too hard, while also outranging and countering Carriers, Tempests, pheenix, and neither storm, nor archons or stalkers can punish them back.
no counter dynamic in the game is this strong and does not have a counter against it or a workaround.
protoss only can try to outposotion and make the situation too chaotic to control terran units properly and heavily outmassing them.
protoss so weak.
MaxPax is a programmer, not a pro-gamer.
Amazing micro, little build creativity, ZERO ability to play live.
Put it together people.
Seriously maxpax prison plus 14 stalker and clem load the cyclone 2 times on the ship and they shout wow what a micro I understand that the terrans are not used to having to handle the units so much so just by raising and lowering a unit 2 times it seems what is micro doing lol what a stupid race and its a dead game
Completely agree. It's honestly a load of bullshit
lol if you really don't see Terran microing vs you in your games, then you clearly aren't that high in the ladder leagues. Also it sounds like you didn't even realize what you were looking at, it's not just raising and dropping the Cyclones out of the medivac. It's dodging the Stalker's auto attack animation so he doesn't take damage, and gets the most value out of his unit as possible.
@@Strider182 Come on, it's just a single medic and 2 units, I understand that it is a lot for a Terran and that it seems micro, but don't fool yourself, try to do it with 14 Cyclones, I suppose that in this comment you can clearly see how noob friendly the Terran race and the players are. slow people who play it
@@unapodoahi LOL please go ahead and get masters with Terran since it's so noob friendly. It's about cost effectiveness. Something you don't understand
This match up is a joke. Why anyone watches when you know what to expect is a mystery. How pathetic is it that those cheap terran units can easily chomp down tier 3 units is a joke
tier 1 units are okay. the issue is how op the viking is against protoss, especially collossus given that the collosus is the only unit that counters bio ghost mine reliably.
they do not just counter them, 10 vikings make any number of collosi useless, and there is no direct counter to vikings so you cannot use collosi at all, which is not the case for any other unit counters in any matchup. you can always work around them in some way, except the vikings vs collosus.
vikings outrange and counter every protoss air unit too, so protecting them with phoenixes or tempests is not possible cause you trade much worse in every case, so you end up with disruptor gateway units, which cannot beat bio ghost lib unless the protoss is a much better player or had a lead from earlier.
A good solution would be to just remove the massive tag of the collosus so that vikings still counter them, but you need twice as many and you can keep building collosi until a much bigger critical mass of vikings is reached.
another solution would be to reduce the vikings range by 1-2 so that they can be punished better by stalkers or archons if they come forward too much.
right now, every lategame pvt that goes in favor of protoss involves a significant lead or heavily outpositioning and denying enough bases to break their back by outmining them enough to swallow up all the unfavorable trades.
@@sshreddderr9409 First off, I will say that removing the "massive" tag on the colossus isn't a good solution, cause you'd have problems in other match ups like PvP, since Phoenix could just pick up Colossus, and other problems I can't think of atm. Vikings definitely don't counter every Protoss air unit, they are pretty bad vs Phoenix, which I remember back in the day when people were going Phoenix Colossus it was really difficult for me to fight. Storms (best counter for Vikings mid-late game), Archons, Stalkers, and later if things get ultra late game, then Tempest do well too if you keep kiting Vikings and not let them jump your air army.
Another suggestion I'd make, is that if you see Terran players committing that heavily to Viking production, then I'd tech switch into Gateway Army/Disruptor, or Storm/Zealot/Archon without committing to a bunch of Colossi. But Disruptors counter everything in Bio/Ghost/Mine too, you just have to be more proactive with firing your disruptor shots. Army positioning, flanking spellcasters (x1-2 High Templar on a flank can do insane things), and not committing to an engagement/army fight unless you have a good angle of attack, and have all of your units firing at the same time + throw down storms etc. There are solutions!
@@Strider182
1. removing the massive tag has no influence on phoenixes. its just a tag that adds bonus damage if a unit deals bonus damage to units with this tag. the thor single target mode, the tempests anti air, the corruptors anti air and the vikings anti air are the only attacks that are affected. and none of those interactions are relevant in the match up. you dont see collosus in PvP, and none of those units are used against collosi ever in games, and if they were, them being long range air units would still counter collosus hard even without the extra damage. another difference would be them not braking force fields anymore, which is also nothing that matters, since they dont break force fields anyway cause of being ranged or never used in PvP.
2. vikings are not countered by phoenixes at all. a phoenix costs more gas, does less damage against non light units like vikings, and has less range. sure they shield collosi from vikings a bit, but the trade is still unfavorable for Protoss cause vikings counter phoenixes too if they are anywhere near equal numbers while being cheaper. if you have good viking micro, a shot of like 10 stacked vikings can one shot a collosus or a phoenix without ever getting in range of storm or phoenixes. tempest might have longer range, but a few of them one shotting a viking or two doesnt matter when its much cheaper than loosing a collosus or tempest from a one shot of 10 vikings afterwards, and tempest are getting build in a much later phase of the game, typically after collosi are all killed off.
3. disruptors can be dodged and are countered by liberators, and storm is countered by libs and ghosts. both of those require much more micro than libs and ghosts do friendly fire against zealots. and are outranged by them. the only way protoss wins such a game is by outpositioning and creating enough chaos to do so, which is more demanding than what the terran has to do. the collosus is the only unit that is reliably good against bio mine ghost, and its the only massive unit that is locked to building 3-4 at once because there is no way to protect them against enough vikings at any number. if vikings did less damage against them, you could build maybe 6 of them before diminishing returns, but they would remain deadly a few minutes longer to bio ghost to a point where terran would be pressured into more vikings or tanks to effectively counter them, which would make the transition into late game easier for the protoss. it feels like equal play in pro games is hopeless against bio ghost viking lib, and protoss never wins those games unless there was a decent early game advantage or multiple base snipes with DTs or other crazy plays where the terran got outplayed heavily multiple times.