Solving The Mystery Of This 800kg Machine
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- Today We Look At This Mystery Machine
follow along with the project of plomping it all back together!
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#vintage #telephoneexchange #restoration #telephony #electronics - Наука та технологія
Bear in mind the information will likely become more solid and accurate as the project goes on! its to start a conversation if anyone knows more.
also just on facebook official telecommunications heritage group now from steve tyrrel "Had a bit of feedback from Dad - it’s an early AT&E system from circa 1920’s used on the railways, effectively as a concentrator - used extensively on the LMS region - Technique was also used for controlling street lights in Sheffield and other cities. Plessey took over AT&E and stopped manufacturing the system as Southern Region were just introducing it. So Southern Region bought a stock of relays from New Zealand to continue manufacturing in UK, NZ were still using them for controlling street lights. Plessey replaced the system with a more up to date version."
I BELIEVE SIR ' You are building A Computer! Add a camera in Case in Comes alive
And here was me thinking a guy at the power station just looked at his watch, looked at how dark it is out the window, then pulled a big lever labelled “street lights”.
Fascinating!
- Mr. Spock
I have a waystation pulse decoder from the STC railway telephone system. Sam, you are welcome to have it for the museum if you need it.
Pulse decoder interesting!? What type is it? With the glass covered mechanism or galvanometer :O?
Nice!
I do want to point out the irony of going "It's not a telephone exchange!" in the short only to find that "Okay yes, it's a weird specific train telephone exchange"
Well noo noo it's a Private Party line used in aN Ex.. BOB NEED NEW IDEA
I think that the uniselector in the Register Unit, would select one of the 24 resonator pulse units, so yes, unislector position has to be "Dialled"
That is magic! The coiled springs seem to be just like the balance springs in watches. An essential feature is that none of the frequencies used can be any multiple of another to avoid false resonances - just like the way the 16 DTMF tones were carefully chosen to avoid harmonic relationships.
Ohhhh cool. By the time I worked at the phone company, we had computerized exchanges. Please keep us updated as you learned more about this thing.
It's pretty much the same idea of 5-tone squelch (SelCall in Motorola language) in two way radios. All radios tuned to the same "channel" but each one has a different set of 5 tones to open the squelch or "page" the radio. Thus a 1:1 call need not land on loads of radios.
It even allowed 1:group and 1:all etc too. Some handhelds even had keypads to directly "call" other radios but most didn't and just called an operator or desk who could buzz the right code.
Similar to the CTCSS constant tone that still "uses" a while channel, but allows some limited "privacy".
Really interesting Sam. Fankoo!!
We had a party line back in the 80s. We had to pick up the receiver and have a listen to find out if the other “party” was using it. If they weren’t then we pushed a clear button on the top of the phone ☎️ and that selected and locked our line for our use. Happy days!
PMR radio uses a similar idea (Continuous Tone Squelch System) so that a number of users can share the same frequency without hearing the other users’ conversations. It slightly different in that an inaudible tone is buried in the audio and the radio squelch (a gated volume control) opens when the appropriate tone is detected.
That’s a really clever use of resonance, I really like that..
In North America to ring the bell in a phone you would send 90v at 20Hz down the line. This ring signal was pasted through an interrupter, a motorized unit with a bunch of cams in it to make an brake contacts, this would flash light and turn on and off the ring signal.
I believe this was done the same way in the UK, except the cams were slightly different (creating different timing) to give things like the classic double ring for a UK phone where as the North American phone have one longer ring.
The equipment you where looking at today, would be classed as another interrupter.... in series with the one I mentioned above, so that the ring signal only gets to one phone on the party line.
That's how normal North American ringing worked. I know some systems used unique ring frequencies for the party line. On these systems the ringer's arm in the phone would be made to resonate at 10, 20, 30, etc Hz.
In Germany the railway telephone had a crank on it. 1 turn on the crank are the short ones and 3 turns are the long ones. So u had in every station, railway crossing, signals and other important buildings a chart with the codes for all the Telephones. The so called Allfernsprecher had some like this connected to it. So on the Allfernsprecher u had buttons and the machine translated the button press in to code lines.
The cleverness is that every outside telephone only needs 2 wires and no more. I have build such a system in my flat to call from the living room to the kitchen and reverse.
Oh wow using the oscillation to trigger the bells is genius! Very cool.
My mom's family had a party line. I always wondered how anyone could answer, but you only heard your own ringer. I remember in the 90s you could get 2 ringer patterns for 1 private subscriber line. As kids, we wanted that so you'd know it was your friend's calling for you instead of your parents' calls coming in
"I have no idea what this is, it's definitely not a telephone exchange", says the guy literally in an old telephone exchanges warehouse.
im willing to bet alot of the phones are still installed in situ, try calling around the places that would be along the lines and asking if they have any ollllllld equipment that was never removed when they upgraded
would depend on what the phones were used for, if it was for thing such as signal post telephones they would have been ripped out/replaced when resignalling work took place
I worked at St Pancras about 5 years ago as the scheme project manage ( Engineering) I would give the guys there a call at the HS1 ( High Speed 1) office. There was a room filled with paper records and drawings and a multitude of obsolete computer records. There's a fair chance that there maybe some records and the Scheme PM is the building and facilities manager. I don't have any contacts there anymore but it might be a place to start.
These were used on the railway to communicate to/from a lineside telephone (the tall wooden box shown inserted at about 02:20) and the Electrification Control Room (ECR) for railway lines that used 25Kv overhead lines. Unfortunately I only worked with the outside telephone instruments and never got to see the Control end, which is what you have there. This has been quite enlightening to me, seeing the "clever" bits that we used to call into. In the picture showing a man using the lineside phone, you can see that he has raised the door in the top half of the wooden box. This obviously contained the telephone instrument. You had to lift the handset off the cradle and listen (in case there was already a conversation taking place), and if clear you pushed a button, which sent a frequency down the line, which the caller could hear and confirm that you were "sending". You would then hear "ring-tone" from the Control end and eventually it would be answered. In the lower part of the box (which was padlocked) you had the send/receive unit (within a fibre-glass type weatherproof box) which also had a coded galvonometer. When Control rang you the galvo' would swing and a contact would make and connect a battery (via a capacitor I think ?) to that lovely big old gong on the side of the box. I think that there were about 8 x 1.5v carbon/zinc batteries contained in two shelves on the back of the door itself. I think they were all removed from the West Coast Main Line in the mid 1980's. I worked between Brinklow and Armitage and we used to call into Rugby ECR.
PS; There was also a trick whereby if the push-button didn't work (no tone heard going out) you could do a whistle into the mouthpiece with a rising tone that would cover a range of tones, and the receiving end would react to a certain frequency.
@@Ozbert That's so interesting, thank you for sharing!
In America a private phone line was 30 dollars in the 60s
The phone company wasn't getting that many people because they couldn't afford it.
So, they offered basically giving 20 or 30 people the same line and number and they charged 10 dollars or 5 dollars per person, but made more money, instead of 30 dollars per line, they get 60 or 100 dollars per line
Everyone would pick up the phone when it rang and everyone would listen to your business
That big digital clock showing just "00:00" makes me happy! =)
I remember my parents had a shared line, you had the twisted pair, plus an earth stake at the property, from my understanding the exchange would send ringing current down A and ground for one property, and B and ground for the other. i remember my parents being told to water the ground stake during the drier months if we thought the bell didn't ring, they got fed up with that and the other party interrupting or listening in so they got a dedicated line
Maybe the 6.3V is for indicators or bells, if they are in remote locations you might need the fuses incase a wire got shorted
0:46 "It's not a telephone exchange!" *points at a whole slew of 60 Volt telephone relays that I recognize from school*
Indeed but telecommunication relays and relay boxes were used in much more than just telecommunications.
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER Absolutely, just look at the very first semi-programable computer, Colossus, it was built mainly out of telephone exchange equipment as its designer, Tommy Flowers, worked at a telephone exchange research centre.
Ok. Now you need to force it to break 88 miles per hour speed limit.
About to see some serious shit!
Might make a nice arpeggiator.. or something..
Neat machine.. I have no clue.
:)
Those galvonometer ringer things are really awesome. I have a gazillion ideas brewing as to how they could be used to demonstrate concepts like resonance and frequency-response.
If I understand correctly, your system has the ability to ring on two different party lines at the same time... Which, for the sake of a museum is probably not necessary (how many party lines do you have physical space for?). So, I think, it might be possible to extract/repurpose the resonating relays from one ringer-bank as receivers to trigger ringers for regular-ol phones attached to the (now one) party-line in the museum...?
I think he said there would be contacts on the receiver relays that aren't on the transmitter ones? not sure though
A bit off topic, but you may like to look out for the other system that BR used. It was made by Ericsson, and consisted of a 3 wire sytem (A,B and Earth) which also had a number of phones on One Single Line.. The receivers had two Cold Cathode Tubes and two relays, and a combination of positive and negative voltages were sent down the A and B wires to initaite call. A kind of binary decode gave this a possibility of 8 extensions that could be rung on the single line. I have some of the telephones (modified Ericsson 706), and i think some more may be available, but not the sender unit, or the decoders. I think the cold cathode tubes can be bought still. A Heritage Group member has one working. It is a very interesting setup. Ill let you know who this is in prv msg.
my parents were on a party line phone it was a cheaper service than regular apparently , there was a button you had to press before you would get the dial tone and you of course had to be careful when you picked up that the line was free , and i remember when the phone rang the few seconds before you would get a muffled ring , then it would ring normally , they had the party line from the late 60's through until the end of the 70's then we changed to a single line but retained our old phone and then as you lifted the receiver the dial tone was present without using the button
You might want to take a look at old fire station signaling equipment. We have a fire fighting museum down the road with a whole section displaying the history of dispatching fire calls to fire engine houses, and the methods were similar. I haven’t seen the backend but the telephone exchange from the sixties looks the same as the one in the article you show.
The one who managed this thing must have been happy with the first voip phone.
Huh, very cool. I've got a few old telephones that were meant for rural (US) party line or manual switchboard systems - complete with hand crank and magneto for ringing the bells at the switchboard - so it's neat to see the kind of upstream systems that other systems used.
The pulse relays remind me very much of the old-fashioned ripple relays which were used for load control a long time ago.
RODALCO2007 made a video about those years ago
Have you found yourself a set, (2 volumes), of 'Atkinson's Telephony'? It contains a massive amount of information on the whole old school phone systems.
yep read back to front twice :D
If you're looking for galvanometer relays, have a talk with Chris from Clickspring. I bet he could probably replicate those for you.
That is a train location detector. As it goes on the tracks the signal is cunducted between the tracks. Then it fould communicat when a train is near and allow the people on the train to call and make announcements or call for help. Still uses something similar to trigger warning systems and crossing gates, but its all digital.
What is the signalling standard ? 48V AC, like a ringer ?
Maybe make some little microprocessor modules that detect the pulse timing and turn on a relay that enables the phone's bell.
Your point about other devices made me wonder about signals. Does every train signal have its own set of wires or does it use a selective system similar to this ?
If you can't get your hands on the right galvanometer relays then it shouldn't be too hard to make an Arduino circuit which checks for and decodes the pulses?
Sent you a DM with a few more related thoughts/links - including a syncycle advert. You’re on the right track (pun intended!)
Now that's what I call fudging interesting !!
i wonder if there also using it to control signals, points, and train codes. or even block sections
If you can't find the relays surely you can simulate them using a microcontroller and a normal phone
No labels on anything sounds very Lucien :P Good luck with this one ! It hasn't got pipes or spinning tone generators so i'd be a bit lost !!!
I wonder what would happen if you put guitar pickups in front of those things when they wiggle and then played the relays O_o
What threw me was you saying it was not a telephone exchange, and so I started thinking non telephone, but then in this video it is telephone exchange!
When was a kid in the 1960s we were the first house on our street to have a telephone and that was on a party line!
if you could tap into the contacts on the pulse generators, you could maybe make a LED matrix that would display text, or make simple pictures. Kind of like a flip display, but with LED's instead of flip dots/ panels. but you would have to get your hands on some very small LED's like 2mil x 1mil x 1mil so it doesn't look all pixelated.
Reverse-engineering an obscure phone switch is definitely something - you'll get there.
The train stuff makes me wonder if it was used to control train crossings, where the lights flash and the drawbars drop down automatically when the train was coming.
jeez thats BIG 😮
Really really interesting, seems such a complex solution to not just running a few more copper lines or modulate it on a single bit of coax up the track. But the engineers of the day must have known better.
It is obviously more complex but it's cheaper than running copper for miles.
If you can't get any phones you can always make some boards with tuned circuits on to act as the detectors.
MR. SAM might be is A MI6 Temporal agent for Sure
I kept waiting to see how you'd connect it to a modular synth
Thats almost like mechanical radio, with the phones all tuned to "their" individual station 😀
STATIONSTATION
My god what a thing. And now all this fits on a tiny chip. Digital technology certainly saved some money time and effort.
You need to find an individual currently in their (probably) late 80s/early 90s who worked on or with this and get as much information out of them as possible. The US has many communities where the minimum age to buy in is 55 and many people move there to retire. Does the UK have similar developments (not sure of the UK term)?
Lots in the UK. I've heard terms such as Retirement Villages, R. Complexes, R Communities and even R. Homes, though that seems to have gone out of fashion. Judging by the adverts lots are being built to capitalise on post war baby boomers who bought into property in the 70s and 80s and who are now 70+ with lots of capital invested in their homes and looking to downsize somewhere nice with all maintenance taken care off. But I expect the service charges are high.
But I've only once read about such a place being dedicated to one profession. It was for retired actors. I always thought that if I had to go into such a place I would like there to be one for retired IT workers who are still dabbling!
ATCS Automated Train Control System
?
The different pulses are for the different addresses
So like Top secret agents?
Maybe a telegraph machine?
I like the idea of putting instead of running phones like relays and having a strange two wire home automation system on it
Infact you should use this machine to run remote control of the lights and stuff in the museum
funnily enough this same system was used for street lights in leeds
What a beautiful electromechanical baby, I'm glad it made it's way to you!🩵🩷💛
I hope it enjoys its new purpose, whatever it may end up being..:::💚🙏
I think the repetition of the resonant whirring during the credits is really high quality asmr.☁️☁️☁️
If you can't locate any 'receiver' phones, I wonder if a 'Phase Locked Loop' IC detector would work at such a low frequency to detect the 'Ringing Frequency'? Hopefully, you can locate the correct phones. Good luck with this - another project.
would be easy to do in software though, with those low frequencies. Either a full-blown DFT/FFT or just simply sampling at double the interval of each specific frequency, counting pulses until a threshold is hit
Could you sacrifice the galvanometers from one side to act as phones for the other?
I’m curious how a 800+ phone call sounds 🤔
I will betcha the London Transport Museum has manuals and diagrams for this equipment.
sounds like it's with the Records keeper...
Is a Party-line a British variant of a Conga-line?
I imagine that this is exactly how it would sound if the human race died out and aliens came to earth and discovered our long lost technology!
"This seems to be one of those screen devices they used to use, but it's missing the small round connector socket so maybe it's just a coaster instead?"
Looks like it can break the Enigma..
I remember the party line adverts back in the 90s on late night TV.
Not what this is for. Watch video again!
My mother lived in the farming community and originally they did have a party line at one point.
They still have the old black nearly indestructible phone as they used to say for the longest was still in years even though it was no longer a party line setup.
Also another place that I was aware that it had a party line at one time even into when I was there last time up in Wisconsin family has a cabin.
And that was also on a Walmart Party Line system.
Essentially if you wanted to make an outgoing call you'd pick up dial the number hang up and when the line was available the phone ring and you could complete your call I forget the rest of the process after picking up the phone.
Also I'd heard about Carol at one time when people had the party line systems in rural areas especially when not too many people had a radio or even had utility power in some areas.
They would actually have one person that had a radio pick up the party line anyone that wanted to hear the broadcast would also pick up and essentially be able to hear the radio broadcast via remote.
Kind of clover back in the day when not a lot of Technology was readily available to everyone and it was quite expensive especially if it's a battery operated radio
Also one time I noticed on a farm that is the one I know had later on they really stop farming but they still live there.
The fence posts had insulators on them and note this was not electric fence is the wires were being used for the old telephone line and was still in use.
Unlock the Farms except just hooked up for a just standard phone service where everyone has a standard private line.
In some areas this was elevated with a extra length fence posts serving as a sort of telephone pole sort of thing.
Also there was a top ground wire no matter what.
Sometimes was used for the signaling as well apparently the person that lived there one of the people that live there or did work for the telephone company at one time is how I found out about this.
There was also one word that was used as a radio antenna as well.
What's the top grounding wire of course for lightning protection.
Also where the ground wire was tied to ground through ground rods periodically.
Deliberately but very very close to the other wires to act as a quote unquote spark gap lightning arrester.
Pretty clever of technology and pretty clever stuff done to get things to work back in the day for sure.
City of few places where the old Twisted Black single pair wire have been used back in the day and was still being used for phone at least when there was a landline still connected.
It was interesting how these were installed there was like a phone tag with possibly a wooden or fiber or otherwise insulated button top that was used to take the wires in place.
Every once in awhile I see a little cleat like device instead.
My parents first place they owned even had the old phone niche at the end of the hallway at one time we're here is what it was then I realized there was a notch and a hole even though it was mostly painted over.
Clearly there have been screws in a square shape attached of course being the connection for the telephone probably hardwired back in the day.
Later on realized yeah there have been phone while I'm going to that point in the basement just didn't see it initially.
A lot of stuff had been cut off at that place literally cut off and some of it was the old three wire stuff as well
I remember once when we were having a severe storm we're in the basement we were seeing this bright blue flash periodically
What was happening is it was arcing over from an old telephone wire that was hanging above the wandering machine tub to switch of course were metal.
Is possible is participation induced static but it cannot confirm this.
Possibly lightning strikes as well but we just don't know but we've heard other people say that you've seen things somewhere things happen during bad storms.
By the way on the farm that was in the family I remember hearing about them during the thunderstorms having the fuses in the telephone Democratic / protector blow.
The telephone company taught at Grandpa how to change the fuses and at one time in the Attic ran across a shoebox full of telephone fuses the long ones look like a wooden casing very thin I've seen these before but it didn't expect them there.
What would your rural area is good to know how to do this if it is allowed by your local provider apparently it wasn't just them easy enough to restore service after a storm versus having someone get out there and try to find a working phone line in some cases avoiding a service call and a trip to town potentially sometimes
Omg She was soo hot
@@NeungView i'm cofussed
its got a hairspring like a watch
r/clockpunk
Ah, it’s a Zircon B23/7 CD unit.
Looks like first or second revision of it.
YES YES The buzzeity conection connectir machine conncteioner
Assign each one to a patreon members' number and use it to have a group chat. (Works in theory i guess 😀).
I remember the first house I grew up in had a party line with other houses nearby (1/4 - 1/2 mile away ) it was a tiny village in North Northumberland.. post office, manor house, farm, castle, church, vicarage, shepherds house and a few scattered cottages. Had a solid black G.P.O. Bakelite phone and our phone number was 123
Dukane telephone switcher
Not sure how you're going to use this in combination with your existing PBX systems, I don't think it'd mesh well. Might make for a hell of a drum machine though. ^__^
definitely! will be making the pulse outputs audio and also trigger outputs for synshts that is one of the projects. as for wiring to other exchanges yes itll work :) auto to auto circuit, i was debating on doing tonight but got tired ha. cheers!
Nobody ever gives ME these kinds of things for Christmas... ;-(
are you A time travler or secret agent
@@AMPProf What kind of answer would you expect from a time traveler or secret agent?
Google Shared service Telephones.
A beautiful thing indeed. It's electromechanical VOIP
Naww Thats Mi6 Network..
Does the museum own a Geiger Counter to make sure you haven't accepted a donated device that will slowly kill people?
Ofcourse
First
not first but i wanted to comment on the guy who made first to boost engagement on the video!!
last
Bletchley Park uk Colossus. helt. you pe
You could remove a galvanometer from the machine, connect it to the party line and “ring” a galvanometer with a matching swing time. That way you can simulate the resonance/amplification from a party line phone