Mark, you are a natural teacher. I wish I was one of your students. Your knowledge is invaluable. I have really enjoyed all your videos as a home hobbyist machinists, particularly your metal finishing and casting. Your attention to detail and explanations are fantastic. Keep up the great work and a big thanks👍🙂
Yuchol, I got a good look at your mill and I must commend you for getting such a good finish with a foam roller. I wouldn't have thought it possible. You must have a lot more patience than I have. Regards, Mark
Most of the preowned machinery I’ve purchased doesn’t get passed repairs needed to restore its ability to make precision parts. In my senior years, I’m much too impatient to restore them to their former greatness. I need to begin machining parts quickly. However I’m glad to see you return the Bridgeport to a thing of beauty. Keep up the great work. Stay safe.
Bill, I initially wanted to get the machine running without having to spend a lot of time restoring it but had it not been for a couple of broken oil fittings I would probably be machining on it now. I guess it just snowballed from there. I really do want it to be back together but now that it's painted I have to be extra careful about handling it in case I scratch or chip the fresh paint. It seems there is no end to it! Regards, Mark
Thanks Lance. I was looking at my Ferguson the other day and it hasn't fared too well since I did the restoration on it. One day I might do it again but this time I will use 2K paint. Regards, Mark
Great video, and the humble pie wasn't so bad. Just a suggestion, when painting ALWAY'S PAINT ALL OF THE EDGE'S FIRST. Get color/paint in around that round opening first, paint the edge(s) in a north /south fashion (Top to bottom) first. You would want to get approx. 1 to 2 inch's (25.4 mm to 50.8 mm) width of the edge. Your correct on how to operate the gun, while spraying. To just add a little on the gun operation, the sound of air should never be interrupted with the sound of silence. Also to make it a little easier on the operator, put a very small amount of petroleum jelly (a.k.a. in the United States - - Vaseline® ) on the rod that the trigger pushes against. Also by adding the petroleum jelly again after cleaning your gun out, this will help to prevent the seal from drying out, and preventing the rod from being restricted to move in and out freely. You know the packing / seal has dried out when you pull on the trigger, release the trigger, the trigger return's to it normal position, but the rod has stayed recessed into the gun. When this has happened, either loosen the nut (approx. 1/8 {3.175 mm} to a 1/4 {6.35 mm} turn) that holds the rod, or find a drill bit that is very close to the dia. of the rod. Take the rod out of the spray gun, and by hand try to insert the drill bit, and turn slowly by hand, to cut a very fine amount of the seal / packing away.
Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately, when I was training at college, there was no tuition in how to spray paint properly. I had to develop a technique that I could teach to students so that they could get reasonable results quickly. About 10 years ago I invited a professional spray painter to do a tutorial for a group of teachers and he appeared to just wave the gun around in a random pattern and despite this, was able to get a perfect finish. When pressed, he admitted that he didn't know how to explain his technique, just that it worked and that was good enough. So, effectively we learned nothing. As I mentioned in the video, my robot method is not best practice but it gets a beginner to the point where they can get paint on a part with some success. I actually had to dismantle my gun just before I shot that video because the air valve rod was catching on the trigger and I did exactly as you suggested. Problem solved! Regards, Mark
Although i'm not a professional spray painter two of my best friends are and i can only agree with what you have said 100% as this is what they taught me . They always talked about dusting or blowing in the corners or hard bits first then do the flat panels or flat surfaces . might try the Vaseline trick on my air brush !
@@Preso58 Just to cover another possible problem people may run into using their spray gun's, when spraying with your gun, and you should notice that your getting color / paint on your finger's / hand, and your very, very sure the paint is not bouncing off what your spraying onto your hand / finger's, that's an indication the the air (mixing) valve rod Seal Diameter, is too great / big, and needs to be restricted / closed down some. You will find that it does not take much to reduce the seal diameter. Again just (approx. 1/8 {3.175 mm} to a 1/4 {6.35 mm} turn should solve the problem. If the problem does not go away, via tightening the nut for the air (mixing) valve rod, unfortunately you will need a new seal. (Very rare for that to happen.) Just wanted to give your viewer's some information that could benefit them. Happy painting. Preparation (and the quality of the preparation) is 90 percent of any paint job. How long should a paint job take? Answer a simple question. Do you just want some color on an object, or do you want a SHOW-CAR FINISH? Take the object Mark is painting in this video, if he wanted a "SHOW-CAR FINISH," it would be nothing to spend approx. a week (as in 5 day's,) preparing to paint the Knee for the mill. That would also include a base coating of three or four coats, and letting that dry for a day, then wet sanding with some 380 or 400 grit, to get a very flat surface, then dry, then wipe off with some lint-free towel's, one last wipe (at this point, paint is mixed, and put into the spray gun, ready to go) using what is called a "TACK-RAG," then proceed to spray paint your object. When using a "TACK-RAG" you apply just enough pressure that you have control of the "TACK-RAG," and it doesn't fall to the ground. If you have never used or seen a "TACK-RAG," think a cheese cloth that has been sprayed with a lite (minimum) adhesive, hence Tack-Rag. Also Mark could have sprayed his gravel drive-way down with some water ( just enough to make it wet) same for the inside of his garage. wait approx. 5 min's to 10 min's before spraying, giving the dust, etc. that you have disturbed (read that as dust you put into the air around you) to float to the wet ground and stay put.
Hey Mark, there’s a great deal of experience out there so always consider any suggestions carefully. Anyway, lesson learned, so that’s the important thing. Great series of videos and I’ve no doubt that this is going to be a very, very nice paint job. Keep up the good work.
Yes, I learned the hard way there. I am just grateful I didn't ignore the evidence and keep going with a faulty substrate. The enamel went on yesterday and it looks great. Very glossy and almost no defects. Regards, Mark
Wow, looks like she'll be better than new 🤩! Painting is like my kryptonite lol. Many a project has gone awry when I get my hands on a paint gun 🤣. However I think you may have showed me the error of my ways. Thanks for the share, Mark! Excellent work as always, cheers!
Hi Mark, For what it's worth. I had a lathe headstock (gearbox) casting as well as the carriage gearbox casting awhile back that had been exposed to many years of oil and apparently it was enough to saturate the cores of the castings (the inside of the gearboxes / oil reservoirs had never been sealed before they were put into service, it was a Chinese lathe that I no longer own). The lathe I have now does have a coating on the inside of the headstock and carriage gearbox. Yours shouldn't be that bad since it wasn't an oil reservoir. Like you, I stripped the castings down to bare metal and I decided to try drying them out by heating the entire castings with a rosebud torch, to my surprise the castings caught fire and continued to burn off the embedded oil for nearly a half hour (good thing I done the heating outside of my shop). I coated the inside of the castings with epoxy and a good primer before I repainted the exterior of the castings in hopes that it would not become saturated again. I have no real way of knowing at this point if it worked but most good gearbox castings I've seen does have some sort of sealer inside. I do know that the exterior paint seemed to be holding up pretty well even after about 5 years of use. BTW, the only reason I repainted those castings was because the paint was blistering and peeling off. The paint on the rest of the lathe was still in good shape when I sold it. Thanks for the tips on the best way to get a really smooth surface! I didn't go quite that far with the finish on mine but I sort of wish that I had :-D Good luck with the remainder of your restoration project. Joe
Joe, my Colchester lathe had yellow paint on the inside of all the oil reservoirs. but even so, the first paint job I did on it failed after just a few years. I used a cheap single pack etch primer and ordinary single pack spray putty to fill the castings. I also stripped the original paint with Selley's Poly-stripper. I was told later that the paint stripper leaves a waxy coating on the bare metal and subsequent coats of paint won't adhere to it. However, the Valspar epoxy coating and the urethane sealer have held up really well. I have had lots of recommendations regarding heating the cast iron to drive off the oil but I was worried about distortion and also I don't own any suitable heating gear. I guess I will have to wait and see if the latest paint job is durable or not. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Hi Mark and thanks for the response :-) I wouldn't think that the knee casting on your mill is nearly as bad as the unsealed gearbox I mentioned. Heating the casting in your case may not have helped that much since most of the oil was likely only in the primer, filler and paint. I was concerned about distortion from too much heat as well and is the reason for using a rosebud so I could heat the casting more evenly and not that hot either, I got it really warm instead of "HOT" if ya know what I mean. I'm guessing that the moderate heat isn't what caught the thing on fire, it's more likely that the moderate heat combined with a direct high temperature flame is what caused the oil to burn off, when it came time to reassemble the gearbox everything went back in place without issue so I don't think it caused any distortion. As a side note, I'm reasonably certain that uneven heat on a casting like that is more likely to cause distortion, if the casting is the same temperature all the way though, it shouldn't distort in my humble opinion. I'll have to try to remember the waxy film left behind when using some paint strippers, I didn't know that so thanks for the information! Lots of educated guesswork involved in refinishing a surface like this and all we can do is wait for time to tell us if what we did actually worked or not, sucks doesn't it :-D I have a fairly small oxy/acetylene setup and I mostly only use it for brazing. I have a good plasma torch for cutting steel plates. Having to buy really large oxygen and acetylene tanks just for a rosebud was too expensive for me so I went with an oxy/propane setup for use with the rosebud and it made good sense because I use propane for my forge as well. If you are considering investing in a good rosebud heating setup, you may want to consider using propane instead of acetylene because of the cost of the tanks and the gas. The materials you are using as a filler and primer are kind of new to me, it's something that I'm interested in learning more about so thanks for the level of detail you provided in your video! I usually don't worry about aesthetics nearly as much as I worry about a machine working properly, I can't stand owning something that doesn't work right, even if I rarely use it! :-D Thanks again, Mark and I hope you have a great day!! :-) Joe
Very interesting on the original filler makeup, and the epoxy paint handling and application, the only paint sprayer I have used was one powered by the extracted air from a household cylinder vacuum cleaner, I sprayed a Puch Maxi moped pressed steel frame. It is my understanding that only the surface of cast iron can retain oil contaminates, rougher the surface, more effective surface, I think only Hydrogen atoms can penetrate ferrous materials. This is a mechanism for hydrogen embrittlement. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, I forgot about the ginger beer. I did the tour of the distillery years ago and the first place they take the visitors is to the molasses storage. You get to stick your head into the huge vat and take a sniff! Regards, Mark
Really nice work Mark...she's going to be a beauty! I must have gotten lucky on mine although I did spend a full day just on the knee with very hot / strong purple de-greaser solution, many rinse and repeats. It does a good job of pulling out the oil. I guess time will tell.
I can't wait for the delights that you will find when you strip the head , from what i have seen from some other videos it is a real pia to re build - probably a case of if it is still working let it be ! You are definetly going to have the most pretty Bridgie on youtube with that new paint job !
Ian, I started to consider my options with regards to the top of the mill today. One part of my brain says to leave it alone but I have been told that the belt drive does need to be inspected. I have already removed and powder coated a lot of the smaller parts like the selector levers and if I can spray the rest without dismantling I will. Regards, Mark
Good Show Mate...as always. You are getting the B'port ready for the Concours de Elegance. It will be so pretty you may not want to use it. I've painted a couple of cars in my career. I think I used up all my patience for painting on them. My Southbend Heavy 10 lathe is in the same shape, paintwise, as it was when I got it 30 years ago. I just don't paint anymore. Be well.
I initially thought I would go with the shop worn aesthetic and that does have it's place. If the machine is clean and accurate but otherwise a bit scratched and chipped what does it really matter? I can't seem to help myself sometimes and it can get out of hand very quickly! Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 I have to watch that too. If you ain't careful you get started and the OCD kicks in. My daughter makes fun of me because of it. With her it is the pot calling the kettle black. She inherited it from me. Perfect is just good enough. I really appreciate your attention to detail. Be well my friend.
Always the teacher. Hehe! Being that meticulous will insure the paint job will outlast you plus a generation. You will assuredly have the prettiest Bridgeport in that hemisphere. 👍🙃
It's looking great now that I have the enamel top coat on. Very shiny but I know it won't look like that for long once I start using the mill seriously. Regards, Mark
Mark, this is a good intro to painting for we beginners. Also, I'm glad that you've got the book by ILION -- I think you'll learn a lot that you didn't even know enough to ask about. At least I was with the book they wrote on South Bend lathes. I always look forward to your videos!
Bob, I was just over in the shed putting the knee and elevating screw back together. I'm afraid the book is going to look a bit worse for wear as I move on with the rebuild. Greasy hands are not good for books with white covers. I am starting to notice a few subtle differences between the book and the parts that I have. This may be to do with the changes Bridgeport made over the years. I have noticed that on the H&W Machine Repair videos the mention that some parts might be pinned or not and some parts have washers or not. However it's great to have the book to fall back on when I inevitably forget how I took the thing apart! Regards, Mark
Stopping and taking it back to bare cast iron was for sure the only thing to do. Had you sprayed and then had to still go back and strip it down due to fish eyes or the like would have just been worse. I personally enjoy the hell out of this sort of work. Putting a better than new finish on something old makes me a happy guy.
Well, I can reveal that the final topcoat went on perfectly except for one run on the side door panel. No sign of fish eyes or oil bleed through so I feel like the extra work was worth it. Regards, Mark
Mark, I too immediately thought that the casting was soaked in oil and it was sweeping through into the filler and paint. Like you I didn't consider that the original filler was the culprit. More power to the elbow of the bloke who put you on to the real problem. Your portion of humble pie isn't very big so I hope it didn't taste too foul, well not as foul as the two pack paint any way. I'm sure the Adcock and Shipley Bridgeport will come out looking the dogs dangly bits in the end mate!
I love your work, but I can't stress this strongly enough. If you need to use isocyanate paint and don't have a proper secondary air supply, just roll it on and use sealed one use protection gear. The droplets are a severe hazard to your eyes and lungs. Bare skin is a no. Isocyanate is a lung irritant by skincontact to. Be aware that if you smell a fruity smell when working with the paint you are past the safe limits of exposure. Pulmonary edema is a slow gruesome death
Excellent Mark you can tell that you were/still are an excellent teacher. I have no doubt that your long desired BP mill is not only going to perform well but it's going to look good too. Thanks for sharing your journey with us.
Pesso, I cannot state enough that there is no safe level of exposure to isocyanide catalysts. Hobby Air makes a "reasonably" priced fresh air pressurized breathing system if you must use the isocyanide based products in the home shop. I realize that an extra $450 (US$) for a breathing mask may seem expensive but how much are a person's lungs really worth? There are non-isocyanide based catalysts available but they may not provide quite as good of a finish as the more hazardous products. There is a reason why isocyanide based hardeners have been the gold standard for so many years despite the extreme health hazards... they work. Great work on your mill, it is starting to look fantastic. I am looking forward to your next installment.
We did buy some isocyanate free clear coat for painting some model cars at school because students would never be allowed exposure to anything really toxic but it was difficult to put on and it had poor gloss levels. I did investigate getting a purpose made pressurised mask but my exposure is very low. Maybe a couple of hours every year or so. Driving a car is probably far more hazardous and we do that most of our lives and almost every day. It's all relative I guess. Regards, Mark
I suspect that you may have been referring to the comment I left to your last video. Though stripping paint may seem to be an unnecessary waste of labor, your film thickness would have likely been excessive if you hadn't done so. Also, as you've discovered, and the integrity of your new finish was dependent upon an unstable existing paint job. Glad that you got it sorted before you invested too much time;-) By far and away the most durable paint system that I've ever work with is Imron. You may want to try it in your next project if you can get access to it. I hope that you won't get offended by more suggestions. If so, please stop reading my comment here. Your paint gun has two stages. The first is just air. The second, feeds paint. When you reach the end of a paint stroke, don't fully release the trigger. You want to keep the air on to avoid buildup on the nozzle. Some of your painting is done with the gun a little too close to the part. Typically, you want an HLVP gun 6-8" off the surface.
Thanks for the feedback. I did go looking for the original comment that alerted me to the contaminated filler so I could acknowledge it in the video but unfortunately I couldn't locate it. However as you have said it was probably you. It really was the right decision so thanks for letting me know. I actually put all the enamel topcoat on yesterday and it has turned out great. I just need to let it harden for a few days before I start to reassemble things. Thanks for the tip about keeping the air on. I hadn't heard of that before but it explains why drips start to develop on the cap. I do have a HVLP gun but for some reason I prefer the high pressure gun. Don't know why. I just googled Imron and there are distributors in Australia. I'll do a bit more research on it. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 I just looked at the comments to your previous video and it was someone else who warned about the perils of contaminated filler. The biggest drawback to switching paint systems is all the ancillary products that have to be purchased, but when you take into account your labor, the costs aren't prohibitive when weighed against the improvement in the finish and durability. Interlux also makes some very good paints, but I greatly prefer Imron. If you know anyone who paints Gulfstream jets, ask them which they prefer and why.
This would be a good time to drill a hole in the side of your base, allowing you to drain the coolant when required. I tapped mine 1/2” BSP, with a short nipple and permanent ball valve. Saves you having to remove the strainers and pumping out from the top openings. (Ps: I can’t get to the back of my machine because of how it’s fitted inside my container workshop.)
That's a good idea. I am not sure I will ever use the flood coolant but I did rebuild part of the pump today. It was badly corroded around the strainer plate. I never want to bail out the rancid coolant again. That was a truly horrible job. Regards, Mark
I've only had to deal with that once, and I followed advice to burn the oil out with a torch. Good for cast iron, as you don't have to worry about wrecking any heat treatment.
@@Preso58 I asked the same thing of the machinist in the shop I went to. He said it's standard procedure for engines they rebuild. The oven heats everything nice and even. I suppose your mileage may vary. My casting turned out just fine. If you wanted to do the same you should likely inquire as to whether engines heat treated as such require line boring to compensate for distortion. Thank you for another fine video, sir.
@@Preso58 Bring it up to temperature slow and even and no, though you might find that you release tension that existed, so it might be slightly out, especially on a casting that has never been hot since it was poured. Engine blocks will have had enough heat sysles to relieve them, and your casting might move such that one bolt hole in a large section might need a slight enlarging to get the bolt back in. Not going to turn into a pretzel though, unless you have some well hidden by the bondo cracks already.
@@Preso58 - I was told no, that the necessary temperature was only 200-300 F, (100-150 C) just enough to get it smoking. Since it needs to be done to the whole casting, keep moving and get it reasonably uniform temperature. There's a lot of information about preparing oil soaked cast iron for welding, and baking it seems to be pretty common. www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/prepping-cast-iron-welding-219940/
I am not familiar with that product but since removing all the filler and repainting the knee casting is showing no signs of oil bleeding through the finish. Regards, Mark
It's surprising how many owners have gone down the same road. The best thing is that the Bridgeport is eminently suited to disassembly and rebuilding. It's really nice to be able to dismantle something with just a handful of tools. Regards, Mark
Someone else had asked me about the paint so I went back to the supplier and took a photo of the colour paint code. The colour is called "Machinery Green". I bought 1 litre from a local paint supplier but they colour matched it to a clean section of paint from the mill. It is likely that it is a custom colour but I have photos of the can label and the formula. If you email me at mark.presling@gmail.com I can send you the photos. Regards, Mark
FYI, high carbon air filtration DOES filter out isocyanates. However, there is no indicator smell for whether or not the filter is saturated. If you have to use paint with isocyanates, use brand new filters and change them out at around 30% of their rated life.
When I went to buy my respirator, I made the mistake of telling the vendor what I wanted it for and immediately regretted it because I then had to sit through a lecture about how hazardous 2K paints were. Like I didn't already know that. I was also told that there are no effective filters for isoncyanates but it could be that I was being set up to purchase a very expensive forced air mask. I always paint outside or near the doors depending on how windy it is. I take the view that it is probably far less dangerous than driving a car and yet we do that nearly every day and don't give it a second thought. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Unfortunately, they have to just assume anyone entering the store is an idiot. Otherwise someone who doesn't know will get themselves hurt or worse. As well, a forced outside air mask setup would definitely be better if you were regularly working with isocyanates. It's just impractical and costly for anyone only painting with them once every dozen years.
Hey presso where did you buy the paint & what do you use to clean down after sanding between coats. I've just done a single lip cutter grinder with rattle cans and not totally happy with the result.
I got my paint from Signature Refinish Supplies in Kunda Park. They were very helpful and colour matched my topcoat for the Colchester lathe. www.signaturerefinish.com.au/index.php?route=common/home I clean down the surfaces with ordinary wax and grease remover. It mops up the sanding dust and any residue left over from your hands. Regards, Mark
Good project Mark and great to see that you have upgraded from the Denbeigh. It’s one thing I don’t miss is painting, I’ve had a few years on the end of a gun. Looking forward to seeing the end product!! Have you got heat lamps?
Rick, it was a bit of a snap decision to sell off the Denbigh. When the virus hit I realised we weren't going to be doing any travelling this year so I the budget went into the new mill. I too hate painting. I seem to spend half my time trying to get rid of dust so you can move on to the next stage of paint. Unfortunately I don't have any heat lamps however the two pack paints do go off pretty quickly. It's the enamel topcoat that takes ages to harden up. I hope you have the big shaper going? Regards, Mark
As a few others have noted, I would have thought a good heating would take care of oil. Never used a 2 part paint for such work, so I imagine it will work.
I was a bit worried about heating the castings in case it led to distortion of the ways. I imagine you would need a lot of heat to vaporise the oil. As it turned out I think the culprit was the filler rather than oil soaking into the iron. Regards, Mark
You have to be particularly careful with overspray with 2 part paints, especially outside. The tiny droplets will float amazing distances without ever curing until they find the neighbors (or customers) car. We had an incident where we had to do major detailing on vehicles that were probably over a hundred yards away that ended up with hundreds or thousands of tiny specks of epoxy paint, lol. Regular paint is usually fine as it will cure in the air and just leave a powder.
I took the trouble of covering my lathe with a sheet of plastic but just as I finished spraying the mill I looked over and the wind had blown the cover off and it was dangling by one magnet. I know what you mean about the over spray but I was probably fortunate that just about everything in the workshop was covered in a fine film of dust. I gave the lathe a bit of a wipe and it seems to have escaped unscathed! Regards, Mark
Paints are foreign to me, I use cheap spray cans and hope it comes out ok because I've had no exposure to 'proper painting' Thanks for sharing. The 2 part paints sound interesting
Rattle can can be pretty good, the trick is to get the surface smooth before, and absolutely oil and dust free, plus a warm area. Thin coats, allow enough time to flash off between coats, and you will find it hard to tell the difference between the can and a 2 pack, except for specialised finishes. Remember the spray can is basically the same Duco paint that cars came with till the 1980's, when manufacturers were starting to use water based finishes and 2 part paint methods.
Gasp! Aerosol paints have their place but I get a bit cranky when I see makers who have just spent dozens of hours making something complex and beautiful and then paint straight over bare metal with a $5 can of spray paint. My laser cutter was made in China and the so called manufacturers painted straight over the bare steel chassis with a cheap textured paint and the steel started to corrode under the paint and it eventually lifted off in huge bubbles. My nephew visited China regularly in order to have a high end laser cutter made to spec and he told me that most of the painting is done outdoors in all sorts of weather and often you could see the corrosion forming almost as they hung the parts for paint. I eventually had to strip all the paint off the chassis and clean all the steel back before I repainted with 2K paint. It is expensive and it needs a lot of prep but it also lasts well and looks good for years. Step away from the rattle can I say! 😁 Regards, Mark
I wouldn't spray 2K myself without piped air and full skin coverage - there is no safe exposure level with that stuff once you atomize it, and never allow it to touch your skin. You should consider the sanding dust itself as hazardous. Rolling on with a fine nap mini roller and tipping off with a brush is far, far safer, and can give a better finish on irregular surfaces than spraying for the less skilled. I've used a lot of Alkyd Enamels in commercial and industrial work, particularly machinery like tractors and commercial boats just because we couldn't contain 2K materials in public areas such as marinas and industrial parks. Your advice with gun operation is quite good - whatever paint system you choose stick to the system in it's entirety as directed by the manufacturer and don't be tempted to mix and match and you can't really go wrong. The use of specific thinners to your 2K might surprise you on how much quicker it blends - it still fights you initially but combines way quicker than standard thinners. You definitely need fast thinners to get it out of the mix before skinning occurs, or you can create holidays and a few strange things if you get too heavy handed with reducers. All the thinners need to get out of the way of the A & B parts to allow full cross linking. The reason house painters whistle when they are rolling the paint on, is because you get the rollers out at the end of the job, most of which was prep work that takes days beforehand. I found it didn't matter what I painted, about 80% of my career involved stripping, and patching, and repairing, and filling and sanding, and more filling, and more sanding for days before I could get to the fun stuff... :)
Totally agree with you on the prep! I spent nearly three weeks getting ready to paint and about three hours putting paint on. I also agree with you on the 2K hazards but I take the precautions I can and accept the responsibility of exposure. At the end of the day I don't smoke and I don't do drugs so I guess I am way ahead of some people! 😁 Regards, Mark
It was the very next day. I spotted actual drops of oil on the surface of the etch primer but I couldn't figure out how it got there. I thought that somehow I had spilled oil on the paint when I was working on cleaning some mechanical parts. I cleaned the oil off with solvent and went ahead with the surfacer and was dismayed when it showed through again within hours. Anyway, lesson learned!
The paint film will go off within 30 minutes once it is sprayed out in a thin film. Left in the gun though it will last for many hours as long as it is sloshing around as a liquid, If you need to save the paint you can put it in a sealed container and leave it in the fridge and it will last for a few days. I once left a batch in a mixing cup for about 24 hours before it started to gel. I do clean the gun as soon as I am finished painting though.
I know! I take the view that it has to be a working machine. There are some owners who treat their machines like museum pieces and this means having to take a lot of precautions. You cannot stop wear and tear if you use the machine regularly. I know I will cringe the first time hot chips land on the paint but that's the nature of the beast! Regards, Mark
The issue you having is the base is cast iron. It soaks up oil like a wick, Until you heat it up and burn it all out of the pores it's gonna keep giving you problems. You can do all this work but in a few months the oil still in it is gonna cause it to peel like you didn't do crap.
A LOT! Seriously though, I have no idea. It's heavy enough that I have to wheel it around on a mobile platform and I removed it with a two tonne chain hoist. Regards, Mark
I do understand why some people like their machines to have that used patina. I had originally intended to just touch up some of the missing paint on my machine without doing a full disassembly. At the end of the day I couldn't help myself and it just got out of hand. Regards, Mark
Will add that for 2 part paint use the right thinners, as most of them are available with a retarder, so that the epoxy will stay uncured for longer in the bulk in the gun. Helps with using it on a hot day where you otherwise would find the paint flashes off and turns to powder before it hits the surface and smooths out. Pet gripe is with car painters, who think that you need to use 2K paint and put it on so thick that it is matt, and then rely on some poor SOB to polish it almost all off afterwards to get it to shine. I want to put that paint on in a few thin thinned coats, and have the finished job not need a polish, as the paint will do this. No need to waste both half the paint, and as well hours of work and polish, to fix a sloppy painter who will not spend a few seconds more doing thinner coats, and a few more of them, so that your final polish is more a buff than anything else. Even I as a novice painter got better results than the pro, and my surface prep sucked, plus I was told you cannot put it on fibreglass. Yes 6 coats on the canopy, done in a weekend, but it never needed a polish, and had no orange peel either.
I used a 2K paint as a top coat on my lathe and the vendor pointed out that most two packs are self levelling meaning that they should settle onto the surface with a high gloss and not need any subsequent polishing. I love the way it goes on looking a bit wrinkly but soon smooths out into a high gloss finish. I did buy some thinners with a retarder when I was painting my lathe because I was doing it in the summer and was worried it would go off too quickly. It's winter here at the moment which is why I didn't bother with specialist thinners. Also the top coat I am using is just a single pack enamel. Regards, Mark
You could totally powder coat the whole machine but you would need a really big oven and some way of moving the parts into and out of the oven. They are bulky and heavy and it would take hours for the big castings to get up to the temperature required to cure the powder coat. Also, powder coat is quite thick and it would need to be masked off from the sliding surfaces and any bearing housings. I guess at the end of the day, paint is more suitable for big machines like these. Regards, Mark
I wish I had a media blasting cabinet big enough! I did have an acquaintance who did all the sheet metal parts of my Colchester for me. He had access to a sandblasting enclosure built into a 20' shipping container. But that contact is no longer available. I must admit that I don't like media blasting anything that will be a running surface just in case the media gets retained somewhere which will damage a bearing or a shaft. Regards, Mark
Have you ever had a Bundy and orange? We tried it and dubbed it the "bundy burnout", as it tastes like the smell of (in the words of Col Elliott) "burnin' %$!&in' rubber" :)
I only tried it once and I must say I didn't like it much. Bundy and coke does it for me but the rum makes me sleepy and when that wears off the coke keeps me awake! Usually at about three in the morning! Regards, Mark
These huge castings that make up these machines we use aren’t really supposed to be perfect I mean there’s little flaws here and there,, it’s a machine why are we trying to turn it into a custom show car body….???
I have a Colchester lathe that I have stripped and refinished twice. The first time I used the wrong etch primer and top coat and it all chipped off in less than a year. I get a bit depressed when I see what was once a nicely painted machine get all shabby. I know that some people like the distressed look of an old machine with all it's battle scars but having a smooth and unbroken paint finish makes cleaning up much easier. A quick wipe down with a clean cloth and all the muck is gone. Having said that, when Bridgeports were made at the factory, the castings were filled, sanded and painted with care. Check out the restorations done by H&W Machine Repair to see how they do it. Regards, Mark
Chris, sorry about that but the style of video that I am keen to do is a narrative rather than an "expert" style of set piece video. I am trying to explain my thought processes and reasoning as I go about a task. Many of the projects that I work on are prototypes and as such I am exploring processes as I go and not everything always works out as it should. Regards, Mark Presling
![Bridgebort Milling Machine [Rescue]](/img/n.gif)
Thanks for the video Mark. My Father always said " A man that has not made a mistake , has not made anything." Keep safe and stay well.
Well said!
Regards,
Preso
Mark, you are a natural teacher. I wish I was one of your students. Your knowledge is invaluable. I have really enjoyed all your videos as a home hobbyist machinists, particularly your metal finishing and casting. Your attention to detail and explanations are fantastic. Keep up the great work and a big thanks👍🙂
Looking nice Mark. The world would be a better place if more people admitted when they were wrong. The topcoat was looking good.
I’ve never been bored watching any of your videos. Great work with plenty of attention to detail.
Glad you like them!
Regards,
Mark
I know that’s a lot of work, but will bring you so much joy when you’re done, I have one in process myself that I need to get back to.
Yuchol, I got a good look at your mill and I must commend you for getting such a good finish with a foam roller. I wouldn't have thought it possible. You must have a lot more patience than I have.
Regards,
Mark
Most of the preowned machinery I’ve purchased doesn’t get passed repairs needed to restore its ability to make precision parts. In my senior years, I’m much too impatient to restore them to their former greatness. I need to begin machining parts quickly. However I’m glad to see you return the Bridgeport to a thing of beauty. Keep up the great work. Stay safe.
Bill, I initially wanted to get the machine running without having to spend a lot of time restoring it but had it not been for a couple of broken oil fittings I would probably be machining on it now. I guess it just snowballed from there. I really do want it to be back together but now that it's painted I have to be extra careful about handling it in case I scratch or chip the fresh paint. It seems there is no end to it!
Regards,
Mark
Thanks for the shout out Mark, Boy I get sick of painting, especially tractor bonnets, guide coats are the go . Stay safe down there Lance.
Thanks Lance. I was looking at my Ferguson the other day and it hasn't fared too well since I did the restoration on it. One day I might do it again but this time I will use 2K paint.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks for showing the processes you are going through in repainting your restoration ...this step is often skipped over on other channels....top work
Top work, thanks Mark.
Great video, and the humble pie wasn't so bad. Just a suggestion, when painting ALWAY'S PAINT ALL OF THE EDGE'S FIRST. Get color/paint in around that round opening first, paint the edge(s) in a north /south fashion (Top to bottom) first. You would want to get approx. 1 to 2 inch's (25.4 mm to 50.8 mm) width of the edge. Your correct on how to operate the gun, while spraying. To just add a little on the gun operation, the sound of air should never be interrupted with the sound of silence. Also to make it a little easier on the operator, put a very small amount of petroleum jelly (a.k.a. in the United States - - Vaseline® ) on the rod that the trigger pushes against. Also by adding the petroleum jelly again after cleaning your gun out, this will help to prevent the seal from drying out, and preventing the rod from being restricted to move in and out freely. You know the packing / seal has dried out when you pull on the trigger, release the trigger, the trigger return's to it normal position, but the rod has stayed recessed into the gun. When this has happened, either loosen the nut (approx. 1/8 {3.175 mm} to a 1/4 {6.35 mm} turn) that holds the rod, or find a drill bit that is very close to the dia. of the rod. Take the rod out of the spray gun, and by hand try to insert the drill bit, and turn slowly by hand, to cut a very fine amount of the seal / packing away.
Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately, when I was training at college, there was no tuition in how to spray paint properly. I had to develop a technique that I could teach to students so that they could get reasonable results quickly. About 10 years ago I invited a professional spray painter to do a tutorial for a group of teachers and he appeared to just wave the gun around in a random pattern and despite this, was able to get a perfect finish. When pressed, he admitted that he didn't know how to explain his technique, just that it worked and that was good enough. So, effectively we learned nothing. As I mentioned in the video, my robot method is not best practice but it gets a beginner to the point where they can get paint on a part with some success. I actually had to dismantle my gun just before I shot that video because the air valve rod was catching on the trigger and I did exactly as you suggested. Problem solved!
Regards,
Mark
Although i'm not a professional spray painter two of my best friends are and i can only agree with what you have said 100% as this is what they taught me . They always talked about dusting or blowing in the corners or hard bits first then do the flat panels or flat surfaces . might try the Vaseline trick on my air brush !
@@Preso58 Just to cover another possible problem people may run into using their spray gun's, when spraying with your gun, and you should notice that your getting color / paint on your finger's / hand, and your very, very sure the paint is not bouncing off what your spraying onto your hand / finger's, that's an indication the the air (mixing) valve rod Seal Diameter, is too great / big, and needs to be restricted / closed down some. You will find that it does not take much to reduce the seal diameter. Again just (approx. 1/8 {3.175 mm} to a 1/4 {6.35 mm} turn should solve the problem. If the problem does not go away, via tightening the nut for the air (mixing) valve rod, unfortunately you will need a new seal. (Very rare for that to happen.) Just wanted to give your viewer's some information that could benefit them. Happy painting. Preparation (and the quality of the preparation) is 90 percent of any paint job. How long should a paint job take? Answer a simple question. Do you just want some color on an object, or do you want a SHOW-CAR FINISH? Take the object Mark is painting in this video, if he wanted a "SHOW-CAR FINISH," it would be nothing to spend approx. a week (as in 5 day's,) preparing to paint the Knee for the mill. That would also include a base coating of three or four coats, and letting that dry for a day, then wet sanding with some 380 or 400 grit, to get a very flat surface, then dry, then wipe off with some lint-free towel's, one last wipe (at this point, paint is mixed, and put into the spray gun, ready to go) using what is called a "TACK-RAG," then proceed to spray paint your object. When using a "TACK-RAG" you apply just enough pressure that you have control of the "TACK-RAG," and it doesn't fall to the ground. If you have never used or seen a "TACK-RAG," think a cheese cloth that has been sprayed with a lite (minimum) adhesive, hence Tack-Rag. Also Mark could have sprayed his gravel drive-way down with some water ( just enough to make it wet) same for the inside of his garage. wait approx. 5 min's to 10 min's before spraying, giving the dust, etc. that you have disturbed (read that as dust you put into the air around you) to float to the wet ground and stay put.
A tasty slice of ‘humble pie’. 😋
Hey Mark, there’s a great deal of experience out there so always consider any suggestions carefully. Anyway, lesson learned, so that’s the important thing. Great series of videos and I’ve no doubt that this is going to be a very, very nice paint job. Keep up the good work.
Yes, I learned the hard way there. I am just grateful I didn't ignore the evidence and keep going with a faulty substrate. The enamel went on yesterday and it looks great. Very glossy and almost no defects.
Regards,
Mark
Wow, looks like she'll be better than new 🤩! Painting is like my kryptonite lol. Many a project has gone awry when I get my hands on a paint gun 🤣. However I think you may have showed me the error of my ways.
Thanks for the share, Mark! Excellent work as always, cheers!
Thanks for the link to the book . I have just ordered one for mine . Cheers .
Hope you enjoy it!
Regards,
Mark
Hi Mark,
For what it's worth. I had a lathe headstock (gearbox) casting as well as the carriage gearbox casting awhile back that had been exposed to many years of oil and apparently it was enough to saturate the cores of the castings (the inside of the gearboxes / oil reservoirs had never been sealed before they were put into service, it was a Chinese lathe that I no longer own). The lathe I have now does have a coating on the inside of the headstock and carriage gearbox.
Yours shouldn't be that bad since it wasn't an oil reservoir.
Like you, I stripped the castings down to bare metal and I decided to try drying them out by heating the entire castings with a rosebud torch, to my surprise the castings caught fire and continued to burn off the embedded oil for nearly a half hour (good thing I done the heating outside of my shop).
I coated the inside of the castings with epoxy and a good primer before I repainted the exterior of the castings in hopes that it would not become saturated again.
I have no real way of knowing at this point if it worked but most good gearbox castings I've seen does have some sort of sealer inside.
I do know that the exterior paint seemed to be holding up pretty well even after about 5 years of use.
BTW, the only reason I repainted those castings was because the paint was blistering and peeling off. The paint on the rest of the lathe was still in good shape when I sold it.
Thanks for the tips on the best way to get a really smooth surface! I didn't go quite that far with the finish on mine but I sort of wish that I had :-D
Good luck with the remainder of your restoration project.
Joe
Joe, my Colchester lathe had yellow paint on the inside of all the oil reservoirs. but even so, the first paint job I did on it failed after just a few years. I used a cheap single pack etch primer and ordinary single pack spray putty to fill the castings. I also stripped the original paint with Selley's Poly-stripper. I was told later that the paint stripper leaves a waxy coating on the bare metal and subsequent coats of paint won't adhere to it. However, the Valspar epoxy coating and the urethane sealer have held up really well. I have had lots of recommendations regarding heating the cast iron to drive off the oil but I was worried about distortion and also I don't own any suitable heating gear. I guess I will have to wait and see if the latest paint job is durable or not.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58
Hi Mark and thanks for the response :-)
I wouldn't think that the knee casting on your mill is nearly as bad as the unsealed gearbox I mentioned.
Heating the casting in your case may not have helped that much since most of the oil was likely only in the primer, filler and paint.
I was concerned about distortion from too much heat as well and is the reason for using a rosebud so I could heat the casting more evenly and not that hot either, I got it really warm instead of "HOT" if ya know what I mean.
I'm guessing that the moderate heat isn't what caught the thing on fire, it's more likely that the moderate heat combined with a direct high temperature flame is what caused the oil to burn off, when it came time to reassemble the gearbox everything went back in place without issue so I don't think it caused any distortion.
As a side note, I'm reasonably certain that uneven heat on a casting like that is more likely to cause distortion, if the casting is the same temperature all the way though, it shouldn't distort in my humble opinion.
I'll have to try to remember the waxy film left behind when using some paint strippers, I didn't know that so thanks for the information!
Lots of educated guesswork involved in refinishing a surface like this and all we can do is wait for time to tell us if what we did actually worked or not, sucks doesn't it :-D
I have a fairly small oxy/acetylene setup and I mostly only use it for brazing. I have a good plasma torch for cutting steel plates. Having to buy really large oxygen and acetylene tanks just for a rosebud was too expensive for me so I went with an oxy/propane setup for use with the rosebud and it made good sense because I use propane for my forge as well.
If you are considering investing in a good rosebud heating setup, you may want to consider using propane instead of acetylene because of the cost of the tanks and the gas.
The materials you are using as a filler and primer are kind of new to me, it's something that I'm interested in learning more about so thanks for the level of detail you provided in your video!
I usually don't worry about aesthetics nearly as much as I worry about a machine working properly, I can't stand owning something that doesn't work right, even if I rarely use it! :-D
Thanks again, Mark and I hope you have a great day!! :-)
Joe
Always pretty to watch mate, great job. I felt your pain when that oil soaked through. Keep up the good work!
Dale, all good now. The enamel went on yesterday and it's looking schmick!
Regards,
Mark
Very interesting on the original filler makeup, and the epoxy paint handling and application, the only paint sprayer I have used was one powered by the extracted air from a household cylinder vacuum cleaner, I sprayed a Puch Maxi moped pressed steel frame.
It is my understanding that only the surface of cast iron can retain oil contaminates, rougher the surface, more effective surface, I think only Hydrogen atoms can penetrate ferrous materials. This is a mechanism for hydrogen embrittlement.
Thanks for sharing.
My local grocery store (midwest US) just started carrying Bundaberg root beer and ginger beer for some reason. Excellent stuff, I'm hooked!
Yes, I forgot about the ginger beer. I did the tour of the distillery years ago and the first place they take the visitors is to the molasses storage. You get to stick your head into the huge vat and take a sniff!
Regards,
Mark
Happy to be the first viewer of another one of your great videos
Mark. Thanks for sharing. Mike.
well, thats gonna be nice. very interesting to learn about paints and stuff.
Really nice work Mark...she's going to be a beauty! I must have gotten lucky on mine although I did spend a full day just on the knee with very hot / strong purple de-greaser solution, many rinse and repeats. It does a good job of pulling out the oil. I guess time will tell.
I can't wait for the delights that you will find when you strip the head , from what i have seen from some other videos it is a real pia to re build - probably a case of if it is still working let it be !
You are definetly going to have the most pretty Bridgie on youtube with that new paint job !
Ian, I started to consider my options with regards to the top of the mill today. One part of my brain says to leave it alone but I have been told that the belt drive does need to be inspected. I have already removed and powder coated a lot of the smaller parts like the selector levers and if I can spray the rest without dismantling I will.
Regards,
Mark
Good Show Mate...as always. You are getting the B'port ready for the Concours de Elegance. It will be so pretty you may not want to use it. I've painted a couple of cars in my career. I think I used up all my patience for painting on them. My Southbend Heavy 10 lathe is in the same shape, paintwise, as it was when I got it 30 years ago. I just don't paint anymore. Be well.
I initially thought I would go with the shop worn aesthetic and that does have it's place. If the machine is clean and accurate but otherwise a bit scratched and chipped what does it really matter? I can't seem to help myself sometimes and it can get out of hand very quickly!
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I have to watch that too. If you ain't careful you get started and the OCD kicks in. My daughter makes fun of me because of it. With her it is the pot calling the kettle black. She inherited it from me. Perfect is just good enough. I really appreciate your attention to detail. Be well my friend.
Always the teacher. Hehe! Being that meticulous will insure the paint job will outlast you plus a generation. You will assuredly have the prettiest Bridgeport in that hemisphere. 👍🙃
It's looking great now that I have the enamel top coat on. Very shiny but I know it won't look like that for long once I start using the mill seriously.
Regards,
Mark
Looking good Mark!
Mark, this is a good intro to painting for we beginners. Also, I'm glad that you've got the book by ILION -- I think you'll learn a lot that you didn't even know enough to ask about. At least I was with the book they wrote on South Bend lathes. I always look forward to your videos!
Bob, I was just over in the shed putting the knee and elevating screw back together. I'm afraid the book is going to look a bit worse for wear as I move on with the rebuild. Greasy hands are not good for books with white covers. I am starting to notice a few subtle differences between the book and the parts that I have. This may be to do with the changes Bridgeport made over the years. I have noticed that on the H&W Machine Repair videos the mention that some parts might be pinned or not and some parts have washers or not. However it's great to have the book to fall back on when I inevitably forget how I took the thing apart!
Regards,
Mark
Stopping and taking it back to bare cast iron was for sure the only thing to do. Had you sprayed and then had to still go back and strip it down due to fish eyes or the like would have just been worse. I personally enjoy the hell out of this sort of work. Putting a better than new finish on something old makes me a happy guy.
Well, I can reveal that the final topcoat went on perfectly except for one run on the side door panel. No sign of fish eyes or oil bleed through so I feel like the extra work was worth it.
Regards,
Mark
Mark, I too immediately thought that the casting was soaked in oil and it was sweeping through into the filler and paint. Like you I didn't consider that the original filler was the culprit. More power to the elbow of the bloke who put you on to the real problem. Your portion of humble pie isn't very big so I hope it didn't taste too foul, well not as foul as the two pack paint any way. I'm sure the Adcock and Shipley Bridgeport will come out looking the dogs dangly bits in the end mate!
Looking good Mark! Take care with that paint!
It’s good to see someone use a spay gun and not a brush to put on paint👍
Totally agree! Most makers own a compressor but for some reason they prefer to use rattle cans (aerosol cans).
Regards,
Mark
OMG how many hours to completely tear down, clean, finish removal, body fill, paint, & reassemble?
500 hours or more? It is stunning.
LOOKING GOOD MARK.
I love your work, but I can't stress this strongly enough. If you need to use isocyanate paint and don't have a proper secondary air supply, just roll it on and use sealed one use protection gear. The droplets are a severe hazard to your eyes and lungs. Bare skin is a no. Isocyanate is a lung irritant by skincontact to. Be aware that if you smell a fruity smell when working with the paint you are past the safe limits of exposure.
Pulmonary edema is a slow gruesome death
Excellent Mark you can tell that you were/still are an excellent teacher. I have no doubt that your long desired BP mill is not only going to perform well but it's going to look good too. Thanks for sharing your journey with us.
Nice Green The mill must be looking Good
Yes, I do like the green. I know it's not original but it has that calming effect on one's mood!
Regards,
Mark
Pesso, I cannot state enough that there is no safe level of exposure to isocyanide catalysts. Hobby Air makes a "reasonably" priced fresh air pressurized breathing system if you must use the isocyanide based products in the home shop. I realize that an extra $450 (US$) for a breathing mask may seem expensive but how much are a person's lungs really worth? There are non-isocyanide based catalysts available but they may not provide quite as good of a finish as the more hazardous products. There is a reason why isocyanide based hardeners have been the gold standard for so many years despite the extreme health hazards... they work.
Great work on your mill, it is starting to look fantastic. I am looking forward to your next installment.
We did buy some isocyanate free clear coat for painting some model cars at school because students would never be allowed exposure to anything really toxic but it was difficult to put on and it had poor gloss levels. I did investigate getting a purpose made pressurised mask but my exposure is very low. Maybe a couple of hours every year or so. Driving a car is probably far more hazardous and we do that most of our lives and almost every day. It's all relative I guess.
Regards,
Mark
Your courtyard is exceedingly clean n tidy....makes us nervous
Keep it clean!. It gives us all something to aspire to... like flying to the moon
I suspect that you may have been referring to the comment I left to your last video. Though stripping paint may seem to be an unnecessary waste of labor, your film thickness would have likely been excessive if you hadn't done so. Also, as you've discovered, and the integrity of your new finish was dependent upon an unstable existing paint job. Glad that you got it sorted before you invested too much time;-)
By far and away the most durable paint system that I've ever work with is Imron. You may want to try it in your next project if you can get access to it.
I hope that you won't get offended by more suggestions. If so, please stop reading my comment here.
Your paint gun has two stages. The first is just air. The second, feeds paint. When you reach the end of a paint stroke, don't fully release the trigger. You want to keep the air on to avoid buildup on the nozzle.
Some of your painting is done with the gun a little too close to the part. Typically, you want an HLVP gun 6-8" off the surface.
Thanks for the feedback. I did go looking for the original comment that alerted me to the contaminated filler so I could acknowledge it in the video but unfortunately I couldn't locate it. However as you have said it was probably you. It really was the right decision so thanks for letting me know. I actually put all the enamel topcoat on yesterday and it has turned out great. I just need to let it harden for a few days before I start to reassemble things. Thanks for the tip about keeping the air on. I hadn't heard of that before but it explains why drips start to develop on the cap. I do have a HVLP gun but for some reason I prefer the high pressure gun. Don't know why. I just googled Imron and there are distributors in Australia. I'll do a bit more research on it.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I just looked at the comments to your previous video and it was someone else who warned about the perils of contaminated filler.
The biggest drawback to switching paint systems is all the ancillary products that have to be purchased, but when you take into account your labor, the costs aren't prohibitive when weighed against the improvement in the finish and durability. Interlux also makes some very good paints, but I greatly prefer Imron. If you know anyone who paints Gulfstream jets, ask them which they prefer and why.
This would be a good time to drill a hole in the side of your base, allowing you to drain the coolant when required. I tapped mine 1/2” BSP, with a short nipple and permanent ball valve. Saves you having to remove the strainers and pumping out from the top openings. (Ps: I can’t get to the back of my machine because of how it’s fitted inside my container workshop.)
That's a good idea. I am not sure I will ever use the flood coolant but I did rebuild part of the pump today. It was badly corroded around the strainer plate. I never want to bail out the rancid coolant again. That was a truly horrible job.
Regards,
Mark
Yep, humble pie always has a slightly bitter taste that you never get used to. 😂 Great video.
Cheers Stuart
I've only had to deal with that once, and I followed advice to burn the oil out with a torch. Good for cast iron, as you don't have to worry about wrecking any heat treatment.
I've done similar, but I sent it out to be baked at an engine rebuild shop. Was fairly cheap too, on the order of $50.
Is there not a chance that it will cause distortion?
@@Preso58 I asked the same thing of the machinist in the shop I went to. He said it's standard procedure for engines they rebuild. The oven heats everything nice and even. I suppose your mileage may vary. My casting turned out just fine. If you wanted to do the same you should likely inquire as to whether engines heat treated as such require line boring to compensate for distortion. Thank you for another fine video, sir.
@@Preso58 Bring it up to temperature slow and even and no, though you might find that you release tension that existed, so it might be slightly out, especially on a casting that has never been hot since it was poured. Engine blocks will have had enough heat sysles to relieve them, and your casting might move such that one bolt hole in a large section might need a slight enlarging to get the bolt back in. Not going to turn into a pretzel though, unless you have some well hidden by the bondo cracks already.
@@Preso58 - I was told no, that the necessary temperature was only 200-300 F, (100-150 C) just enough to get it smoking. Since it needs to be done to the whole casting, keep moving and get it reasonably uniform temperature.
There's a lot of information about preparing oil soaked cast iron for welding, and baking it seems to be pretty common.
www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/prepping-cast-iron-welding-219940/
That mill has a better finish than my car! (Not to mention old me!)
Will Kilz create the barrier you need? I know it works great against water marks and rust.
I am not familiar with that product but since removing all the filler and repainting the knee casting is showing no signs of oil bleeding through the finish.
Regards,
Mark
G'day mate the paint looks great
Every man that acquires a Bridgeport Mill should be required to go thru this......LOL
It's surprising how many owners have gone down the same road. The best thing is that the Bridgeport is eminently suited to disassembly and rebuilding. It's really nice to be able to dismantle something with just a handful of tools.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I've done my share and more. Never to a Bridgeport but lathes and such. Friends think I'm crazy but also envious.
Always bake old cast iron. When it heats up, the oils come out of the pores and you can clean it to prep for paint.
Same with powdercoating. You have to have a big oven to do a Bridgeport knee casting though.
Regards,
Mark
Nice Work! Could you share the paint color code and the Manufacturer of the paint? Big thank-you for your time!
Someone else had asked me about the paint so I went back to the supplier and took a photo of the colour paint code. The colour is called "Machinery Green". I bought 1 litre from a local paint supplier but they colour matched it to a clean section of paint from the mill. It is likely that it is a custom colour but I have photos of the can label and the formula. If you email me at mark.presling@gmail.com I can send you the photos.
Regards,
Mark
FYI, high carbon air filtration DOES filter out isocyanates. However, there is no indicator smell for whether or not the filter is saturated.
If you have to use paint with isocyanates, use brand new filters and change them out at around 30% of their rated life.
Additionally, I'd suggest using a disposable paint suit that's thrown out after your done, and painting outside.
When I went to buy my respirator, I made the mistake of telling the vendor what I wanted it for and immediately regretted it because I then had to sit through a lecture about how hazardous 2K paints were. Like I didn't already know that. I was also told that there are no effective filters for isoncyanates but it could be that I was being set up to purchase a very expensive forced air mask. I always paint outside or near the doors depending on how windy it is. I take the view that it is probably far less dangerous than driving a car and yet we do that nearly every day and don't give it a second thought.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Unfortunately, they have to just assume anyone entering the store is an idiot. Otherwise someone who doesn't know will get themselves hurt or worse. As well, a forced outside air mask setup would definitely be better if you were regularly working with isocyanates. It's just impractical and costly for anyone only painting with them once every dozen years.
Hey presso where did you buy the paint & what do you use to clean down after sanding between coats. I've just done a single lip cutter grinder with rattle cans and not totally happy with the result.
I got my paint from Signature Refinish Supplies in Kunda Park. They were very helpful and colour matched my topcoat for the Colchester lathe. www.signaturerefinish.com.au/index.php?route=common/home
I clean down the surfaces with ordinary wax and grease remover. It mops up the sanding dust and any residue left over from your hands.
Regards,
Mark
Good project Mark and great to see that you have upgraded from the Denbeigh. It’s one thing I don’t miss is painting, I’ve had a few years on the end of a gun. Looking forward to seeing the end product!! Have you got heat lamps?
Rick, it was a bit of a snap decision to sell off the Denbigh. When the virus hit I realised we weren't going to be doing any travelling this year so I the budget went into the new mill. I too hate painting. I seem to spend half my time trying to get rid of dust so you can move on to the next stage of paint. Unfortunately I don't have any heat lamps however the two pack paints do go off pretty quickly. It's the enamel topcoat that takes ages to harden up. I hope you have the big shaper going?
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 The shaper is nicely parked in the shed. I just have to build a chip pan for it as chips are flying everywhere. Cheers
As a few others have noted, I would have thought a good heating would take care of oil. Never used a 2 part paint for such work, so I imagine it will work.
I was a bit worried about heating the castings in case it led to distortion of the ways. I imagine you would need a lot of heat to vaporise the oil. As it turned out I think the culprit was the filler rather than oil soaking into the iron.
Regards,
Mark
You have to be particularly careful with overspray with 2 part paints, especially outside. The tiny droplets will float amazing distances without ever curing until they find the neighbors (or customers) car. We had an incident where we had to do major detailing on vehicles that were probably over a hundred yards away that ended up with hundreds or thousands of tiny specks of epoxy paint, lol. Regular paint is usually fine as it will cure in the air and just leave a powder.
I took the trouble of covering my lathe with a sheet of plastic but just as I finished spraying the mill I looked over and the wind had blown the cover off and it was dangling by one magnet. I know what you mean about the over spray but I was probably fortunate that just about everything in the workshop was covered in a fine film of dust. I gave the lathe a bit of a wipe and it seems to have escaped unscathed!
Regards,
Mark
Mark Presling did you look on your neighbors car? Haha
Paints are foreign to me, I use cheap spray cans and hope it comes out ok because I've had no exposure to 'proper painting'
Thanks for sharing. The 2 part paints sound interesting
Rattle can can be pretty good, the trick is to get the surface smooth before, and absolutely oil and dust free, plus a warm area. Thin coats, allow enough time to flash off between coats, and you will find it hard to tell the difference between the can and a 2 pack, except for specialised finishes. Remember the spray can is basically the same Duco paint that cars came with till the 1980's, when manufacturers were starting to use water based finishes and 2 part paint methods.
www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-tradition-of-brush-painting-a-hot-rod.949505/
Gasp! Aerosol paints have their place but I get a bit cranky when I see makers who have just spent dozens of hours making something complex and beautiful and then paint straight over bare metal with a $5 can of spray paint. My laser cutter was made in China and the so called manufacturers painted straight over the bare steel chassis with a cheap textured paint and the steel started to corrode under the paint and it eventually lifted off in huge bubbles. My nephew visited China regularly in order to have a high end laser cutter made to spec and he told me that most of the painting is done outdoors in all sorts of weather and often you could see the corrosion forming almost as they hung the parts for paint. I eventually had to strip all the paint off the chassis and clean all the steel back before I repainted with 2K paint. It is expensive and it needs a lot of prep but it also lasts well and looks good for years. Step away from the rattle can I say! 😁
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Once I put in a fume extractor layer this year I'll consider better painting options
I wouldn't spray 2K myself without piped air and full skin coverage - there is no safe exposure level with that stuff once you atomize it, and never allow it to touch your skin. You should consider the sanding dust itself as hazardous. Rolling on with a fine nap mini roller and tipping off with a brush is far, far safer, and can give a better finish on irregular surfaces than spraying for the less skilled. I've used a lot of Alkyd Enamels in commercial and industrial work, particularly machinery like tractors and commercial boats just because we couldn't contain 2K materials in public areas such as marinas and industrial parks. Your advice with gun operation is quite good - whatever paint system you choose stick to the system in it's entirety as directed by the manufacturer and don't be tempted to mix and match and you can't really go wrong. The use of specific thinners to your 2K might surprise you on how much quicker it blends - it still fights you initially but combines way quicker than standard thinners. You definitely need fast thinners to get it out of the mix before skinning occurs, or you can create holidays and a few strange things if you get too heavy handed with reducers. All the thinners need to get out of the way of the A & B parts to allow full cross linking. The reason house painters whistle when they are rolling the paint on, is because you get the rollers out at the end of the job, most of which was prep work that takes days beforehand. I found it didn't matter what I painted, about 80% of my career involved stripping, and patching, and repairing, and filling and sanding, and more filling, and more sanding for days before I could get to the fun stuff... :)
Totally agree with you on the prep! I spent nearly three weeks getting ready to paint and about three hours putting paint on. I also agree with you on the 2K hazards but I take the precautions I can and accept the responsibility of exposure. At the end of the day I don't smoke and I don't do drugs so I guess I am way ahead of some people! 😁
Regards,
Mark
How long did it take before you saw the oil start to show through on your initial finish attempt? Thanks for the video!
It was the very next day. I spotted actual drops of oil on the surface of the etch primer but I couldn't figure out how it got there. I thought that somehow I had spilled oil on the paint when I was working on cleaning some mechanical parts. I cleaned the oil off with solvent and went ahead with the surfacer and was dismayed when it showed through again within hours. Anyway, lesson learned!
How long do you have after you mix the paint to spray it and clean the gun before it goes off?
The paint film will go off within 30 minutes once it is sprayed out in a thin film. Left in the gun though it will last for many hours as long as it is sloshing around as a liquid, If you need to save the paint you can put it in a sealed container and leave it in the fridge and it will last for a few days. I once left a batch in a mixing cup for about 24 hours before it started to gel. I do clean the gun as soon as I am finished painting though.
It will almost be too pretty to use when ya get done. I know my logans fresh paint didnt look fresh for very long. Lol
I know! I take the view that it has to be a working machine. There are some owners who treat their machines like museum pieces and this means having to take a lot of precautions. You cannot stop wear and tear if you use the machine regularly. I know I will cringe the first time hot chips land on the paint but that's the nature of the beast!
Regards,
Mark
Yep, I restored an Atlas lathe a couple years ago, it's amazing how quickly that bright shine fades from use.
The issue you having is the base is cast iron. It soaks up oil like a wick, Until you heat it up and burn it all out of the pores it's gonna keep giving you problems. You can do all this work but in a few months the oil still in it is gonna cause it to peel like you didn't do crap.
Well, I hope not. I am feeling more confident having removed all the old filler from the knee. Time will tell I guess.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I wish ya best of luck but seems like the same problems we have with cast car engine parts when I try to paint them.
H & S inspectors are on this one Presso
That hardener is most likely to be Terebine.
How much does the knee casting weigh?
A LOT! Seriously though, I have no idea. It's heavy enough that I have to wheel it around on a mobile platform and I removed it with a two tonne chain hoist.
Regards,
Mark
👍😎👍
And I can't be bothered to swing a brush with some rustoleum at my bridgeport. :-( I kinda like the rusty look.
I do understand why some people like their machines to have that used patina. I had originally intended to just touch up some of the missing paint on my machine without doing a full disassembly. At the end of the day I couldn't help myself and it just got out of hand.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Every time I try to tear my old girl down, a job comes up. How I lived without a bridgeport is beyond me.🤔
Will add that for 2 part paint use the right thinners, as most of them are available with a retarder, so that the epoxy will stay uncured for longer in the bulk in the gun. Helps with using it on a hot day where you otherwise would find the paint flashes off and turns to powder before it hits the surface and smooths out.
Pet gripe is with car painters, who think that you need to use 2K paint and put it on so thick that it is matt, and then rely on some poor SOB to polish it almost all off afterwards to get it to shine. I want to put that paint on in a few thin thinned coats, and have the finished job not need a polish, as the paint will do this. No need to waste both half the paint, and as well hours of work and polish, to fix a sloppy painter who will not spend a few seconds more doing thinner coats, and a few more of them, so that your final polish is more a buff than anything else.
Even I as a novice painter got better results than the pro, and my surface prep sucked, plus I was told you cannot put it on fibreglass. Yes 6 coats on the canopy, done in a weekend, but it never needed a polish, and had no orange peel either.
I used a 2K paint as a top coat on my lathe and the vendor pointed out that most two packs are self levelling meaning that they should settle onto the surface with a high gloss and not need any subsequent polishing. I love the way it goes on looking a bit wrinkly but soon smooths out into a high gloss finish. I did buy some thinners with a retarder when I was painting my lathe because I was doing it in the summer and was worried it would go off too quickly. It's winter here at the moment which is why I didn't bother with specialist thinners. Also the top coat I am using is just a single pack enamel.
Regards,
Mark
Could you powder coat parts this big? I guess you just need a garage-sized oven! 🤔
You could totally powder coat the whole machine but you would need a really big oven and some way of moving the parts into and out of the oven. They are bulky and heavy and it would take hours for the big castings to get up to the temperature required to cure the powder coat. Also, powder coat is quite thick and it would need to be masked off from the sliding surfaces and any bearing housings. I guess at the end of the day, paint is more suitable for big machines like these.
Regards,
Mark
Why couldn’t you have sand blasted it or media blasting as an option ?
I wish I had a media blasting cabinet big enough! I did have an acquaintance who did all the sheet metal parts of my Colchester for me. He had access to a sandblasting enclosure built into a 20' shipping container. But that contact is no longer available. I must admit that I don't like media blasting anything that will be a running surface just in case the media gets retained somewhere which will damage a bearing or a shaft.
Regards,
Mark
Have you ever had a Bundy and orange? We tried it and dubbed it the "bundy burnout", as it tastes like the smell of (in the words of Col Elliott) "burnin' %$!&in' rubber" :)
I only tried it once and I must say I didn't like it much. Bundy and coke does it for me but the rum makes me sleepy and when that wears off the coke keeps me awake! Usually at about three in the morning!
Regards,
Mark
These huge castings that make up these machines we use aren’t really supposed to be perfect I mean there’s little flaws here and there,, it’s a machine why are we trying to turn it into a custom show car body….???
I have a Colchester lathe that I have stripped and refinished twice. The first time I used the wrong etch primer and top coat and it all chipped off in less than a year. I get a bit depressed when I see what was once a nicely painted machine get all shabby. I know that some people like the distressed look of an old machine with all it's battle scars but having a smooth and unbroken paint finish makes cleaning up much easier. A quick wipe down with a clean cloth and all the muck is gone. Having said that, when Bridgeports were made at the factory, the castings were filled, sanded and painted with care. Check out the restorations done by H&W Machine Repair to see how they do it.
Regards,
Mark
...greeeen....?
I know, but it has a calming effect! Grey is so 1970"s.
Regards,
Mark
It’s a mill not a luxury automobile, focus on what really matters.
But it's fun!
Regards,
Mark
I like your work, but you talk to much.
Chris, sorry about that but the style of video that I am keen to do is a narrative rather than an "expert" style of set piece video. I am trying to explain my thought processes and reasoning as I go about a task. Many of the projects that I work on are prototypes and as such I am exploring processes as I go and not everything always works out as it should.
Regards,
Mark Presling