Fellow (well, former, thanks Covid) ride mechanic here from PA. Thank you for the best and most level, sensible explanation. It's like things like this never happen to most of these people, meanwhile if they saw the undersides of half the bridges they drive over they'd have a heart attack. Subscribed!
@@jdrammer5664 I had left a job (tourist railroad electrician) for the ride mechanic job. Covid had us laid off. The state I live in royally screwed up (didn't pay) my unemployment so I ended up going back to the railroad just to pay the bills. They gave me more money to keep me than the park could offer when they called us back. Looking to get back in ride maintenance now, went to state seminar last year to keep my license current even without a park attached.
As someone who also works for another chain in maintenance that isn’t CF, I thought I was the only one the wasn’t freaking out that this happened. The GP are always gonna blow things out of proportion because it looks bad, and they don’t know. I’m glad you can explain things for people so they won’t be so scared. Much respect to you.
I don’t normally make reaction style videos because I can’t stay on top of what’s trending. But I saw videos coming out and I was like these people could cause a panic and (like you) I’m like, it’s not great but it’s not horrible either. No need to panic. Thanks for the comment.
It's not just the GP freaking out about it. Many of the "enthusiast" channels are blowing things way out of proportion as well. I'm really sick of hearing people complain about how bad maintenance must be at the park. They have no idea whatsoever about the circumstances around the break. Worse are the comment engineers who talk about how poorly designed the support structures are. Now I'm no expert, but I can guess that B&M may just have engineers of their own who design this stuff. And maybe they can even do the maths too!
What a great analysis. Really goes to show just how intricate crafting coasters is. I always hear about the Steel Force Hypercoaster at Dorney Park sinking into the ground every year. I'd say if that were true, we'd start seeing problems like this a lot more often, but even at 26 years old, Steel Force is still pretty reliable.
Yea worst case is actually showing stress cracks in the track. That’s a death sentence for a rollercoaster. Never cheaper to repair and dearest replaced so their just removed and scrapped. Thanks for the comment!
The absolute most professional and realistic take and opinion we've had on this situation yet! The man does this for a living so I respect it💯 I commented on TPP's video that I believe it would be somewhere around Halloween maybe early September at the soonest you have to remember Carowinds goes year-round now so it's not like it's going to be next spring. But it will be a couple/ several months
I literally started watching you 10 hours before the news of the accident, I really enjoy hearing things from your perspective. Keep up the great work.
Thanks again for clarifying reasons why rides might be down for a season or two. There were two coasters down indefinitely at a local Cedars Fairs theme park in my area. I was there recently ans talking to guests who were wondering why they were closed for so long. One was closed for a year already and all the park will say is refurbishing and maintenance with no ETA. These guests couldn’t understand why it would take so long and they see refurbished as a new paint job and add ons, etc. But you make complete sense of it all. And again thank you for helping to alleviate my anxiety about riding these again. Just visited my local Six Flags met new friends and conquered several coasters I was too scared to ride!
Thank you. I want to give insight, but I also want to do it in such a manner where anyone can tune in and get useful information. I believe it’s only engineers understand what I’m talking about. That probably doesn’t help normal people turning into UA-cam.
Thanks for the great explanation! This industrial engineer from Kentucky appreciates the industry insights you brought. I completely agree with the survey being a key step in the first part of the process. I would think the survey would also provide insight if anything else pertaining to that part of the ride is out of spec. Cedar Fair seems to put a high level of ownership on the ride manufacturer when it comes to safety and reliability. I'd imagine the survey report will be scrutinized heavily to identify anything that can be pushed back on B&M later on in the process.
that I know of B&M does not have an inspection to check survey levels, its time consuming and expensive. Fun time, has a 5 year inspection to check survey for foundation as they build tall tower rides and can't have cleaning tower. footers settling can sneak up on a ride for sure!!!
Great Analysis. I see so many freaking out with speculation, feigning outrage, etc. Clearly there is a large margin of safety built into amusement rides, especially those as robust as Fury or any B&M. The park should have caught this earlier with recent pics surfacing of a visible crack, but not full break, a week prior, but there wasn’t any sort of danger to park guests as far as I can tell. Your explanation of a footer likely sinking to add additional stress in the weld at the top of the 45 makes sense and that’s where I was leaning based on my time working for a company that did welding and pipe fitting. From a structural perspective this whole section is an arc that could, and was, easily supported by the support beams to either side. Anywho, glad I found the channel, excited to dig into other videos.
yea I've seen some videos overreacting to the but I'm one of the few people that understands what's happening as well. It's not great but it's not the worst thing ever. I've seen parts that have ripped in half and you observe, inspect, learn, repair, and move on with life. Glad your here!
Thank you for this! This is the most trustworthy video on this that isn’t only pure speculation about what happened and the rides reopening. Thank you for showing us how this all works! I’d appreciate if you do it for other rides if similar things happen
@@ryantheridemechanicThe Smiler would be interesting but I gather that the ride safety systems was working perfectly fine and it was a miscommunications. Now I know the roller coaster Jetline at Grona Luna in Sweden recently had a derailing. Possibly could you do a video about how derailings happen, and how they are prevented?
When people hear "catastrophic failure," they apply it to the whole coaster instead of paying attention to the next few words. What concerned me more was the report that the staff running the ride didn't shut it down as soon as the guest alerted them, and he had to call the fire department. Also: love the drawings! They worked great
Yea I understand. To be fair, it’s like crying wolf. People would tell our ride ops there were problems with the ride all the time. Sometimes we got a call to come out. Investigated and could not find a problem. So this was a big visual problem s the stuff I’m talking about is more noise oriented. A couple of years ago I rode Matterhorn, came around a corner and there was an open junction box where the panel was coming out into the ride envelope. I told the operators and they just ignored the comment as an “oh ok” then I remembered the number so I said it JB68-120p then they paused and looked at me and the person went to go get their supervisor and someone hopped on a bobsled and went to check it out. So I was done that was as much as I could do. Unless I felt there was an extreme danger then I can do much more.
@ryantheridemechanic that makes sense. And funny story! Those niche skills are always interesting to hear about. I wish this incident would be used to publicize how well-built and safe roller coasters are at these parks.
@@candidwings5609 that would be nice to broadcast that their safe but that doesn’t get the clickbait attention most companies like to slap advertisement to unfortunately. World is driven by clickbait these days.
I’m so sad that I have not found this channel sooner! Loving your videos! Talking about things, and answering questions I’ve had for many years! Thank you so much for all of the amazing information and insights!
good insight, as a former ride operator at 2 different theme parks, when i saw images of this, i raised an eyebrow, but wasn't entirely shocked by it, I know it can happen, but this is the first time i have heard of it going that badly. though having experience as a ride operator, i know the track will be able to take some load for a bit of time, but eventually it will have to be replaced, my guess on how long it will be would be several months, but as you mention its hard to know, i do know that its not likely to reopen anytime this summer season, maybe the fall or winter.
I know KI and Wonderland each have had issues with footer movement on B&M rides. It happens. Speaking as an engineer, though, I have to tell you I was disappointed that you did not use a NAPKIN for your illustrations! Always use a napkin!!
Disney Imagineer uses NAPKIN all the time to design their attractions. In fact, the Typhoon Lagoon water park was first schemed up using the NAPKIN program. NAPKIN is a very useful tool.
I have come across this before on a track backbone and it was caused by a faulty batch of seamless circular hollow section tube material from the forge. The heat of the forge was incorrect leading to a defect called reticulated cracking. If the reticulated cracking is from the inside surface of the tube, It is very difficult to spot other than Ultrasonic testing. Once the material is welded and installed, the cyclic loading of the train causes defects to grow and they usually appear on the outer surface, after a few years. They typically appear at highly stressed heat affected zones. (same as the failure of Fury 325) The material at the forge only has to be pressure tested and visually inspected, so again, if the defect is on an internal surface, it cannot be found at the time of inspection at the steel mill. The failure on Fury 325 is pretty quick, as Ryan stated, there are no corrosion indications, weeping down the column. I had to switch out all tracks from the same batch of material, as we found indications on all the parts made from that batch. This was on a ride that was only 5 years old at the time. It sucked as the ride was out of warranty and the material manufacturer blamed the ride manufacturer for crappy welding. We had a metallurgist who stated the defects were clearly from the material supplier. It is not as uncommon as you think and there are many building structures where this defect will likely exist, they just don't get the cyclic loading that is introduced by the train. Coaster structures are designed to not only take the cyclic loading of the train, but also the combined loads of wind and earthquakes, so it is very safe, even with a wobbly column or 2.
Awesome!!! You know your stuff. Was that forge problem released in a bulletin from B&M. I recall a long time ago having to check column/ track numbers on a B&M for some reason. Our model was not affected just the parks CYA.
@@ryantheridemechanic You know your stuff too Ryan. I agree with the possible theory of the sinking foundation and spot on for noting a rapid failure of the column. I trained as a production machine tool maintenance engineer, before progressing to manufacturing engineer, in aerospace, where I learned the dark arts of materials science. Spent 15 years in the manufacturing sector before moving to theme parks. I have worked in the theme park industry for 21 years, where I have installed over 140 rides and attractions in the UK and UAE. We spotted an indication in the parent metal on our coaster during NDT. As it was in the parent metal, a good inch or so away from the weld, we used ultrasonic to see how deep the indication was. This is where we found the bigger issue and fed the information back to the ride vendor. They gave us the batch numbers and track part numbers where the batch was used. We checked all the track parts related to the batch and noticed a higher number of indications on areas where the train load forces were greater. We had a third party metallurgist confirm the issue and all the information was fed back to the ride vendor. It appeared to be isolated to the one batch of material. Always good to hook up with fellow theme park guys around the world to share issues. I work on project delivery for all Yas Island theme parks. (Ferrari World, WB world AD, Seaworld AD, Yas Waterworld and Clymb). A fellow ride engineer from Canada sent me a video of the failure and that's where I found your channel on YT. Keep up the good work.
You may be the only online "engineer" who got this right. So many claiming to have expert knowledge produced better graphics but still got the stress points wrong. Your examples were simple and easy to understand. I like how one "engineer" with a channel claimed the ride could be simply welded and the ride back up in a few weeks. Today they announced the column will be completely replaced, as it should. One factor not considered by these experts chiming in is the Public Relations aspect. Replacing the entire column makes a better visual, as well as engineering sense. Thank you also for stating this was not normal. I know personally this type of catastrophic failure is very rare. I still say the maint team failed here as did the reporting of the incident. That is another video. Thank you and keep up the good vids.
Thanks for the comment. I’m not an engineer, I have no degree as such. I’m just a mechanic that has spent 14 years doing this stuff and could say right off the bat that B&M would not sanction a repair. Let’s hope the replacement comes soon so they can get back up and running!
@@ryantheridemechanic In my experience the ride mechanics I know are more capable than many engineers. They see the realities of a system, not just the theory. Thanks.
Amazing analysis, so glad I found your channel a few days ago. There is so much misinformation being spread throughout the coaster enthusiast area and media about this incident, and hearing this explanation from someone who studied engineering and who has worked on other B&Ms is great to hear.
Thank you so much for this video! I loved your very informative renderings. 🤣 We are weekly riders of Fury, and have never felt unsafe. Will be back to riding once once she’s repaired. Really appreciate your time and explanation.
Thankyou for explaining this so well. I’m not extremely knowledgeable with rollercoaster or with the specifics, but I know how safe they are, from restraints, redundancies, etc, I’m glad their are people making videos like this that don’t cause mass panic and deter people from riding
Thank you. It much easier than people think to cause panic so I don’t want to feed those flames. And this sucks but it’s not a super bad thing. Honestly just have to wait for the repair. I’ve never ridden this but if it opened and I was there, I want to ride it for sure!!! Thing looks awesome.
What's up Ryan? Carowinds is my home park and my son and I were there that day when this was found and shut down. Can't wait to get back and ride Fury again but just wanted to say that you getting tickled by your own content was the funniest thing I've seen in a minute. Thanks Man!!
oooh I can imagine, low center, overhung weight at high vibration... I can easily see that. this stuff normally happens on stuff under 20mm total thickness, typically brackets or standoff for signs.
Thanks for the great explanation and the awesome drawings! Fury is a great ride and I will be happy when it is up and running again. I am a coaster fan, but my 2 boys, not so much. We live less than 10 miles from Carowinds and went often when they were younger. They both were hesitant to ride the coasters, and I would tell them the coasters are safer than our car ride to the park.Thanks for backing me up! (Those 2 are now first responders and feel totally comfortable driving emergency traffic in Charlotte. LOL!!!)
Those sketch examples deserve to be in the Getty Museum rather than on a fridge. Top tier art! Thanks for the insight on this! It's interesting how two pressure points and one tiny little hair of a crack can lead to this. I assume the leading factor of the pressure can originate off the friction of the track with the weight of the cart. That mixed with the material used to make the supports and the age/wear-and-tear of the attraction can likely factor to this happening right??
First of all: I’m glad your having fun with my drawings. I laughed at it but I wasn’t sure how others would take it haha! Second: everything you listed is a factor. But the main culprit is a preexisting load on the leg. Weather it was sinking or maybe a gap was sucked shut during construction? Not to sure but that leg became preloaded somehow.
Thanks for this explanation :) I usually feel really safe knowing more about the science behind roller coasters (such as block sections, restraints etc.) and this video also helped with that. And I gotta ask: with what software did you make those exceptional sketches? :p
"it puts more stress on the rest of them" think of it like the bed of nails experiment, how a single nail would pierce your skin and make you feel extreme pain, but a hundred nails would just make you feel uncomfortable, because the stress is supported by the rest of the nails, not just one but as you remove the nails, eventually they will start to pierce your foot slightly, until they finally just give under your pressure, and you now have many nails and not just one nail in your foot, but its still better than trying to rely on one, because one is guaranteed to have bad results
Thanks for the quick and professional insight! (Love the CAD - Cartoon Aided Design) One more thing: why is the 45° angeled support facing towards the center of the curve? Is it due to the material property of steel or just preference of the manufacturer?
inertia of the train will pull the vertical support away from the center of the turn. So the manufacture put n a 45deg leg to appose that force and keep the force on the rails not into the box beam of the track. typically the slant is just to shorthorn the leg from being to long. then the leg itself will star to cause stress on the track from sheer weight. and I love the CAD analogy!!! HAHAHA!!!
The force the train can exert is a known value. You can use a structural member in compression to resist it (an outward strut) or a member in tension to resist it (inward strut). As long as you calculated the force exerted by the train correctly, designing the diagonal strut to be outward or inward should make little difference. In this case I suspect it was angled inward because an outward support might have extended into the parking lot and using the infield (which can't be used for much else easily) was just more practical.
@@mikewalker4950 Steel can carry either force well depending on its shape. Bar steel or rods will do fine for purely tensile loads but will deflect and warp under compression, which is why flanged beams and tubes are used for compressive loads (and most flanged beams and tubes can handle tensile loading because realistically, most structures will endure both types of forces).
Its not something you see often and a B&M is not where one would expect to see it when it does happen - I am glad you addressed this because I did have a thought and you are the best person to ask, do you think it is possible that during an inspection or while painting it is possible that they rammed into it with a lift and that started the process ?
I'm not even going to bother comparing the teen roller coaster enthusiasts' online analysis compared to this lol I've seen some ridiculous hypothetical videos when other coasters have failed. Bless them for trying to do fancy illustrations though. They get bunch of views. This is all you need. This timely video will get you more subs. And linked elsewhere if you leave embedding turned on. This incident has been a headlining story in the 'MSM' Main Stream Media. And there weren't even any injuries or deaths. (There's been a long-running enthusiasts joke that 205ft Magnum XL-200 at Cedar Point is sinking. I don't know who started that. But my joke is that means 310ft Millennium Force on the other side of the park has gained 5 ft. One interesting thing to note about Millennium Force is it has no trim breaks. It has a couple of brackets in case it did. And 93mph hurts in the rain. You can't breathe in the first over banked turn. Trim brakes could be a video topic).
Great comment thank you! I’m conflicted internally with trim breaks. The mechanic in me says slow it down everything will work better. The rider in me says “we don’t need no stinking trim breaks!” Haha!!
The stress from the trains speeding by has sheared that corner piece clear off the support! Like you said, that's definitely a big _"WHOA!"_ and there's some serious downtime, initial inspection, (maybe) repair or replacement, even more extensive inspection of the entire ride, and overall assessment - all coming down the pike! With as high, fast, and the stress on the turns and inversions experienced on that ride under normal conditions, I would not be at all surprised if _Fury 325_ stays closed for the rest of the season! You cannot take those kind of chances!
Most of the time the footer sinking would be from water intrusion. Works down in the ground, creates flow and over time starts to loosen the footer. It’s mainly soil composition, nothing really the park could do but monitor future problems.
Great Analysis. The one thing that really bothers me though is this was not spotted by Ride Operators or even park personnel. It was spotted by a Dad sitting out in the Parking lot waiting to pickup his kids. That's who shot that footage. He immediately went to find someone. It took him talking to 4 layers of supervisor before they would even begin to take him seriously. Even with the video footage. And then it still took them quite a while to shut the ride down. There will be some serious questions asked about Carrowinds maintenance practices. The other thing that is getting overlooked is the real potential for danger isn't just at the other supports. If you look at the video there is a track section joining just a few feet to the left of this support. That joint has now undergone way more movement and stress than it was ever intended for at least a week. (Pictures have surfaced showing the initial signs of the crack a week ago). Yes the rides do not necessarily need all of the supports to run safely. But which ones it needs vs does not need are not a random selection. Some of the towers are 100% necessary because the track joinings are placed adjacent to them, and they require more solid support.
bummer. fury 325 is one of the best rides on the planet. I have a bit of engineering background and had an idea of what was going on but you broke it down better than I could. Thanks. I think it was a mistake to put a vertical support in that spot when IMO a diagonal support would have been FAR stronger. You can get away with a vertical support on a normal coaster but this one has a max speed of 95 mph. I'm thinking the park didn't want to intrude on the parking lot?
yea your right I believe the turning of the supports are done to save space not the overall ride footprint. I have extreme faith B&M did their math spot on plus safety plus service plus 25%. that's why I'm thinking the footer settled. thanks for the comment..
my plan was to make a video about this this weekend, this shouldnt happen after 6 years. THANK YOU! for also agreeing that full detailed checks need to happen on footers and supports. the footer will have to be re done, and a new support installed. and that dosnt just take 2-3 weeks like they claimed it would re open. the amound of people from the general public arguing with me saying its "fine" "it will be open with a weld or a new support within weeks" I wouldnt ride it if thats all they did. honestly.... to make sure there isnt any issues on any other high stress part of the ride (most of it because its fury 325 lol) they need to do the detailed support and foundation check on every foundation and support. if done properly like it should be, I dont think It should be open this year. with construction / repairs over winter. somthing like this needs to happen in the right way to gain back public support for rides and coasters. because god forbid if they do a botch weld job and it happends again in a few weeks or months.
When you started talking about your sophisticated visualizations, I expected something hacked together in Microsoft Paint. Then you lift the sheet of paper and I was laughing. Great explanation, Ryan! And congratulations - when I subscribed about a week ago, you were at 160, now you crossed the 500 subscriber mark! 🎉
@@ryantheridemechanic I'll be around, I really love your channel! I have never worked at an amusement park (just an enthusiast there), but I have worked on the electrical systems of some fairground rides in Germany back in the day. I even built a control system for a kiddie bumper car ride and quite a bit of light control equipment (in the pre-LED days, even a set of 16 individual light controllers that were synchronized across multiple slip rings with no extra ring for a synchronization line) So this is the place for me to nerd out! Thanks man!
Thunderbird at HW which was built the same year as Fury had a foundation sink and crack 2 years ago in a valley where only the track was attached to the foundation. Luckily they caught it very quickly and got everything inspected and poured a whole new foundation that ended up being much larger than the original foundation. It took them about 4 weeks to fix. I imagine this one will depend on how fast they can get a new support manufactured. I also imagine this making national news makes it more complicated as well.
Interesting insight regarding the potential foundational issues at play. Couple things pinging around my head about this incident, if there is indeed ground movement at the problem location is it likely there are other potential problem piers that need substructures or other remedial action? Second who assumes liability for the remedial action, the park, the manufacturer, a subcontractor? Seems a terrible headache overall factoring in the optics of having such a dramatic looking failure circulate widely on social media/news outlets. P.S. Appreciate your insight! Found your channel a month or so ago and it's been very interesting learning about a side of the industry that doesn't get much exposure.
So the media attention is doing massive destruction faster than anything else will. Park always has liability unless deemed a manufacturing defect (I don’t see how this could be that.) If the ground has moved they will need to determine the scope of movement, only then can they discuss further action. I remember the theme park close to where I used to live had a helix over the body of water. After about 15 years in operation, it started developing stress cracks. They found the entire helix was sinking into the water. It was a very large repair cost a lot of money, but I believe they ended up re-fabricating that whole section of track with new ground piers.
Your channel has gained a lot of traction in the past few days. Congratulations! I have resently subscribed and binged all your content. Love it. Eagerly awaiting more. I would love to hear your insight on the operation and maintenance of Intamin hydraulic launch motors like the former TTD and Kigda Ka ect. They are extremely fascinating From a coaster enthusiast in Kalamazoo Michigan
Yes I plan on a hydraulic launch video. Going to be hard to do as there is nothing to see in those systems except the main drum spinning. Thank you for the support and comments.
I’ve always wondered how many supports you could remove from a ride before it became genuinely unsafe. I’m curious as to how removing supports would affect ride safety and longevity.
Welcome! I’m glad your here! It’s an easy subscription as I typically don’t post too much. I’m glad people are enjoying the videos and the artwork. Who would have thought!
A sober, educative, and reassuring explanation, Ryan. I am curious if "sleeving" the affected area--installing more steel at the point of failure--would surrogate replacing the entire member. You mentioned this breifly, but did not elaborate. Can you?
It’s all about liability. If they want the ride to be under B&M umbrella then B&M have to allow the repair. If they go roughe an fox it how that want it to be then B&M will release all liability of that ride. It’s up to B&M if they even want to sell parts to the park at that point.
I quite agree! I feel like I'm getting in at the beginning of something amazing! As a coaster enthusiast, but also someone who LOVES the mechanics and engineering side of them, I love this insight!
5:58 some rides that are on unstable ground (like "gold rush" @ Slagharen) have reflection markers on the supports about 1m off the ground where they shine a laser on, the laser should return to a detector if all supports in that loop are in their spot. If the support sunk, is bend or tilted the laser doesn't return to the correct spot and they can't open the ride. This is checked daily on start-up by the system. I guess this is something that will be added to a lot more coasters in the future.
@@ryantheridemechanic I've seen the same laser reflectors at other rides, but I've only done a start-up at the coaster of mentioned so I don't know how often others are checked. Slagharen is build on an oil and gas field so it's a known issue there for buildings aswel to slowly sink into the ground. Along as it's uniform on the whole structure it's not a problem, but some buildings have a few supports that stay put where the rest of the building keeps sinking. My parents house have the front wall about 1,5 brick (about 10cm/4 inch) higher then the rest of the house after only been there for 41 years. It's something we have to live with here, but also something we expect. As far as I know they had to adjust the support beams once so far after one of the footers sunk after a small earthquake with only 2 days of downtime (They have adjustment bolts and filler plates for that purpose).
If the footers sinking or moving is a common cause of these types of failures, do any modern coasters have any kind of monitoring sensors in the footers to keep track of this?
It’s not a common thing at all. But you don’t really know it’s a problem until it’s a problem. Then it’s too late and your replacing steel and digging new support footers.
How much do the rubber buffer between the track and the support on Schwartzkopf rides take off the stress of the support? Fow what I can see, the track can move about a couple of cm in every direction when a train passes.
I do think another factor in all of this that isn’t being said much is that B&M hasn’t bothered to lighten their train designs as their coasters get faster and more forceful. Intamin has had many issues, but they realized a long time ago the trains needed to be as light as safely possible. I305 is a good example. They re-profiles the first bank turn as it was too forceful for guests, but it hasn’t had any major structural issues and it seems they learned from mistakes made on Millennium Force.
Do you happen to know how often (If at all) support beams are checked? I'd assume visual inspections are daily/weekly, but how about NDT of the weld joints?
Visually checked daily i always told guys you will never see 360° so look do dust, chipped concrete, and rust that’s a tattletale that there’s a problem. Most parks annually NDT with an outside company this is just very close up visual. And then mag partial if any indications are found.
what about the fact the support was in tension rather than compression? given the bank angle, id really imagine compression would've withstood more force...
@@walterandclaude even after being heat effected? Generally welds don't break the steel on the sides does. I'm just saying it would've been easier on the support if it was compressing the steel rather than trying to rip the weld apart
Since this is so much in the public arena, is there pressure to go above and beyond the technical specs to make the public feel safe (i.e. replace the column rather than repair even though a repair may be deemed technically feasible?)
Yes there is a knee jerk reaction that the park will more than likely do sense it’s in the media. (I’m guessing,) They will invite some news sources in to show them how they will inspect the rides to show people they do their job to keep it safe. The only way to fight media is with media. They will want to hit key words like manufacture had us repair it. Or something that shows they went outside their company for a check and balance in good faith.
Do you have a designated park where you work, or do you travel to different parks to work? Also do you enjoy riding rides as well, or just working on them
So I’ve been out of the industry for 5 years now that the reason I can talk about this stuff. During my last job I stayed at one park and it was extremely rare to go to a different park unless you were engineering. And yes I still love going to parks whenever I can to take a ride on something new.
Allegedly the crack already showed up for weeks ago leading into snap. If that's the case, honestly, the problem is not the sole failure of the single support column (we all engineer can agree that B&M Coaster is overbuild af). The problem is just, what they are really doing during daily morning inspection including visual inspection on every part of the ride. Like, this is CF we talked about. But you know, I'm willing to get corrected if that's not the case
never thought about the foundation supports sinking. that's a whole new can of worms. Soil problem in just one couple sq meter of ground??, prob not likely. This story might have legs.
Yea!! So amazing to see this sort of reaction! I’ve gotten like 100 subscribers today alone. Wow! I still have a bunch of your comments I plan on making videos with. I’m about to start on your LSM Vs LIM.
@@ryantheridemechanic Cool. I've been namedropping you to get people to watch your videos because there is no shortage of unsubstantiated thoosie speculation about this incident and literally everything else... some of the ideas they come up with just make me think "Good grief." As an unrelated question I'd like to know more about chain and anti-rollback dogs on inverts. Despite working at a park I never actually saw them--I wasn't the one crawling under or over stuff to inspect them, lol. Do inverted/suspended/flying coasters get the dogs to stick up with springs or are they counterweighted to 'flip up,' or a combination of the two? If they were purely counterweighted I guess that would introduce the problem of the dog slamming up and down as the vehicle changed its attitude in loops and such.
@@sharkheadism they are held up with springs mainly. Return reaction time is key for both. No hard up means they won’t engage. Too hard they can mushroom and the leads to cracks. I can do some topics on this.
I think the ride will be down for the summer. It's over. No reason to rush job the repair and to fast track RCA - it's not worth it. CedarFair has to eat this.
After years and years of hearing “Vortex’s footers are sinking” and “Magnum’s footers are sinking” and writing it off as silly speculation from GP and sometimes thoosies who think they know engineering, my mind is actually blown discovering that it can in fact happen, even if it wasn’t true for Vortex Magnum.
I had no idea you could remove 2 or 3 supports and still be okay. I think people's fears with respect to this event are reasonable if they don't have the training you do. How do we know how long it might take for the other supports to fall apart after the first goes? What if there are similar undetected cracks in the other supports and with the loss of that one large support the rest widen at an accelerated rate? Or are you saying you just don't expect / its very unlikely for there to be cracks in the other columns? In any case its nice to hear an expert view. But I dislike how everyone pretends that this is some how a normal response. Unless you are a trained ride mechanic or engineer you're not going to think this is regular behavior for a rollercoaster or for a bridge or anywhere else cracks might form.
The action was to NDT the track and structure, this was done. Seems they found no other indications. Depending on what they found wrong, that will determine future actions. If I was told nothing was wrong just a freak failure, then I’m going to shut the ride down 3 times a year and have it NDT. Special inspections the whole 9 yards. If they said there was a problem with that support like the footer sank or it was in the wrong location front he start , I’m going to keep the annual inspection as usual because there was abnormal circumstances around that support.
So many coaster engineers !!!. 15 expert coaster designers in this video comments alone ! When is the world no longer in danger from these rogue coaster manufacturers? We need more coaster engineers on youtube and we will no longer need to buy them from Switzerland. We will make Many computer renderings and make sure they are smarter than the people who built it. Make sure we trust them, because..... Well just because they are UA-cam expert with nifty title ! All those coaster builders at B&M and Intamin are not smart anyway. They are just sitting in their drawers, typing on their keyboards in their grandma's basement. I'm so glad we have so many "experts" on youtube. That version 1.07 of Roller World Coaster Tycoon has paid off in this video alone. I only have 2 junior college physics classes" so I'm not qualified yet. Most of these experts have 3! Along with 50 hours of welding.
I’m GP. My biggest issues are 1) the crack was there at least a week prior and their “daily safety checks” missed it 2) the park blew off the guy who reported the issue and only shut the ride down when fire dept got involved. Both suggest a cavalier approach to safety by Carowinds.
It's not the footer, and it's not a metallurgical defect. It's a design/quality control problem leading to an assembly issue. I've seen some close-up images on the track to column joint. This one is on B&M, the construction team, the state inspectors, design reviewers, and CF themselves. The track plate and column plate bolt holes do not match, so the assembly team could not get all the bolts into the connection. This will cause uneven loading on one side, effectively twisting the top off the column over a period of time. This should have been highlighted during construction and subsequently during quality control/annual inspections. Poor show all round, really. Can't wait to hear the official story. I'll get my popcorn.
After a 35 year career in aerospace structural testing, your analysis is woefully inadequate..... My first look at that video and several things jumped out at me ...... For starters, the design engineer should be shot! You build a tall support and then the actual support is cantilevered on top of it, negating most of the support, and placing all the stress on the front of that weld. The load path is 90 degrees to the support. Second, that is a BREAK! Huge detail but then, your entire analysis describes a static loading system, which this clearly is not. My first guess with no other data is that this is a fatigue failure, caused by the multiple load-cycles it experienced while being cantilever-loaded..... After you load-cycle steel a few million times, the molecular structure of the steel changes to that of glass, aka "glass transition state", and the next cycle with any load will shatter that steel like glass and that is what i am seeing..... if this were a static issue, the steel would have stretched first before breaking...... Also, all the spot-testing in the world cannot predict the next failure because fatigue failures happen so quick......... But hey, i do agree it was not dangerous..... and yes, you could remove that support altogether and it would only make it quicker for the surrounding supports to fail.....
@@sharkheadism Quite possible but it would be easy to get a guesstimate....... 2 cycles a minute times 60 minutes an hour times 12 hrs a day times 100 days = 144,000 cycles and would be a conservative estimate for one season.... and that's not even considering if the loading "rings" or not..... So, engineers start to worry around the 2 million cycle range...... more quick math says it would reach that in 14 seasons or less...... Now, if that were an aerospace part, it would be load-cycled to failure to see when that happens. I did not check to see the age here but, with the cantilevered loading problem, who knows what and where the real loading is, unless someone tested that design at some point.....
Well I’m not disagreeing with any of you analysis. All i am saying is that I’ve worked on several of these between 20-30 years old and the one I took care of didn’t have A crack that we had to repair in the 14 years I worked with it. So typically it’s rather a footer moved or they used 2 cranes and a big rig to twist the track together and bolt it during installation. Not that I’ve ever done that.
@@No1Armadillo The ride's stated capacity is 1,470 riders per hour, or about 46 trains per hour. The park is open about 213 days this year, so if each day's operation was 12 hours, that would be 117, 576 cycles. That's still a high estimate as not every day will be 12 hours of operation and there will be times this ride doesn't run due to weather and other factors... It has likely not even hit its millionth run yet (it opened in 2015). And there are steel coasters much older than it that have done many more cycles than Fury and they're fine. All of the coaster manufacturers out there employ mechanical and structural engineers too.
Fellow (well, former, thanks Covid) ride mechanic here from PA. Thank you for the best and most level, sensible explanation. It's like things like this never happen to most of these people, meanwhile if they saw the undersides of half the bridges they drive over they'd have a heart attack. Subscribed!
Just curious, why are you former thanks to covid?
Yea rides are top notch compared to a LOT of other things. Thanks for the comment
@@jdrammer5664 I had left a job (tourist railroad electrician) for the ride mechanic job. Covid had us laid off. The state I live in royally screwed up (didn't pay) my unemployment so I ended up going back to the railroad just to pay the bills. They gave me more money to keep me than the park could offer when they called us back.
Looking to get back in ride maintenance now, went to state seminar last year to keep my license current even without a park attached.
I'm so happy somebody made a video about this. I was so tired of hearing everybody make the biggest worst case scenario deal ever.
Blown out of proportion
As someone who also works for another chain in maintenance that isn’t CF, I thought I was the only one the wasn’t freaking out that this happened. The GP are always gonna blow things out of proportion because it looks bad, and they don’t know. I’m glad you can explain things for people so they won’t be so scared. Much respect to you.
I don’t normally make reaction style videos because I can’t stay on top of what’s trending. But I saw videos coming out and I was like these people could cause a panic and (like you) I’m like, it’s not great but it’s not horrible either. No need to panic. Thanks for the comment.
It's not just the GP freaking out about it. Many of the "enthusiast" channels are blowing things way out of proportion as well. I'm really sick of hearing people complain about how bad maintenance must be at the park. They have no idea whatsoever about the circumstances around the break. Worse are the comment engineers who talk about how poorly designed the support structures are. Now I'm no expert, but I can guess that B&M may just have engineers of their own who design this stuff. And maybe they can even do the maths too!
What a great analysis. Really goes to show just how intricate crafting coasters is.
I always hear about the Steel Force Hypercoaster at Dorney Park sinking into the ground every year. I'd say if that were true, we'd start seeing problems like this a lot more often, but even at 26 years old, Steel Force is still pretty reliable.
Yea worst case is actually showing stress cracks in the track. That’s a death sentence for a rollercoaster. Never cheaper to repair and dearest replaced so their just removed and scrapped. Thanks for the comment!
This was a really well made video describing what happened. Thank you for the simple yet detailed explanation 🙏
Thank you
As a studying Mechanical Engineer, your content is exactly what I always needed. Thank you!
Awesome glad you like it!
The absolute most professional and realistic take and opinion we've had on this situation yet! The man does this for a living so I respect it💯 I commented on TPP's video that I believe it would be somewhere around Halloween maybe early September at the soonest you have to remember Carowinds goes year-round now so it's not like it's going to be next spring. But it will be a couple/ several months
I was thinking time wise the wait for everything is so long right now fab shops might be extremely backed up.
I literally started watching you 10 hours before the news of the accident, I really enjoy hearing things from your perspective. Keep up the great work.
Thank you
Thanks again for clarifying reasons why rides might be down for a season or two. There were two coasters down indefinitely at a local Cedars Fairs theme park in my area. I was there recently ans talking to guests who were wondering why they were closed for so long. One was closed for a year already and all the park will say is refurbishing and maintenance with no ETA. These guests couldn’t understand why it would take so long and they see refurbished as a new paint job and add ons, etc. But you make complete sense of it all. And again thank you for helping to alleviate my anxiety about riding these again. Just visited my local Six Flags met new friends and conquered several coasters I was too scared to ride!
That’s great you were able to conquer something new! So glad I could help!
great walk thru for us with less of a understanding of the engineering
Thank you. I want to give insight, but I also want to do it in such a manner where anyone can tune in and get useful information. I believe it’s only engineers understand what I’m talking about. That probably doesn’t help normal people turning into UA-cam.
Thanks for the great explanation! This industrial engineer from Kentucky appreciates the industry insights you brought. I completely agree with the survey being a key step in the first part of the process. I would think the survey would also provide insight if anything else pertaining to that part of the ride is out of spec. Cedar Fair seems to put a high level of ownership on the ride manufacturer when it comes to safety and reliability. I'd imagine the survey report will be scrutinized heavily to identify anything that can be pushed back on B&M later on in the process.
that I know of B&M does not have an inspection to check survey levels, its time consuming and expensive. Fun time, has a 5 year inspection to check survey for foundation as they build tall tower rides and can't have cleaning tower. footers settling can sneak up on a ride for sure!!!
Great Analysis. I see so many freaking out with speculation, feigning outrage, etc. Clearly there is a large margin of safety built into amusement rides, especially those as robust as Fury or any B&M. The park should have caught this earlier with recent pics surfacing of a visible crack, but not full break, a week prior, but there wasn’t any sort of danger to park guests as far as I can tell. Your explanation of a footer likely sinking to add additional stress in the weld at the top of the 45 makes sense and that’s where I was leaning based on my time working for a company that did welding and pipe fitting. From a structural perspective this whole section is an arc that could, and was, easily supported by the support beams to either side. Anywho, glad I found the channel, excited to dig into other videos.
yea I've seen some videos overreacting to the but I'm one of the few people that understands what's happening as well. It's not great but it's not the worst thing ever. I've seen parts that have ripped in half and you observe, inspect, learn, repair, and move on with life. Glad your here!
Thank you for this! This is the most trustworthy video on this that isn’t only pure speculation about what happened and the rides reopening. Thank you for showing us how this all works! I’d appreciate if you do it for other rides if similar things happen
Honestly this should be a once in a blue moon event. But people have asked me for some accident responses like the smiler and things like that.
@@ryantheridemechanicThe Smiler would be interesting but I gather that the ride safety systems was working perfectly fine and it was a miscommunications.
Now I know the roller coaster Jetline at Grona Luna in Sweden recently had a derailing. Possibly could you do a video about how derailings happen, and how they are prevented?
When people hear "catastrophic failure," they apply it to the whole coaster instead of paying attention to the next few words. What concerned me more was the report that the staff running the ride didn't shut it down as soon as the guest alerted them, and he had to call the fire department.
Also: love the drawings! They worked great
Yea I understand. To be fair, it’s like crying wolf. People would tell our ride ops there were problems with the ride all the time. Sometimes we got a call to come out. Investigated and could not find a problem. So this was a big visual problem s the stuff I’m talking about is more noise oriented. A couple of years ago I rode Matterhorn, came around a corner and there was an open junction box where the panel was coming out into the ride envelope. I told the operators and they just ignored the comment as an “oh ok” then I remembered the number so I said it JB68-120p then they paused and looked at me and the person went to go get their supervisor and someone hopped on a bobsled and went to check it out. So I was done that was as much as I could do. Unless I felt there was an extreme danger then I can do much more.
@ryantheridemechanic that makes sense. And funny story! Those niche skills are always interesting to hear about.
I wish this incident would be used to publicize how well-built and safe roller coasters are at these parks.
@@candidwings5609 that would be nice to broadcast that their safe but that doesn’t get the clickbait attention most companies like to slap advertisement to unfortunately. World is driven by clickbait these days.
Thank you so much for a very well thought out and professional video. LOL love the drawings.
Your welcome! Glad you liked it.
I’m so sad that I have not found this channel sooner! Loving your videos! Talking about things, and answering questions I’ve had for many years! Thank you so much for all of the amazing information and insights!
No problem ! Glad you found me.
good insight, as a former ride operator at 2 different theme parks, when i saw images of this, i raised an eyebrow, but wasn't entirely shocked by it, I know it can happen, but this is the first time i have heard of it going that badly. though having experience as a ride operator, i know the track will be able to take some load for a bit of time, but eventually it will have to be replaced, my guess on how long it will be would be several months, but as you mention its hard to know, i do know that its not likely to reopen anytime this summer season, maybe the fall or winter.
I know KI and Wonderland each have had issues with footer movement on B&M rides. It happens. Speaking as an engineer, though, I have to tell you I was disappointed that you did not use a NAPKIN for your illustrations! Always use a napkin!!
I don’t need to see any paperwork on you that comment alone is proof!! Haha! Thanks for the comment!
Disney Imagineer uses NAPKIN all the time to design their attractions. In fact, the Typhoon Lagoon water park was first schemed up using the NAPKIN program. NAPKIN is a very useful tool.
Cardboard, man, cardboard; much sturdier.
@@royreynolds108 now I know. And knowing is half the battle!!
@@royreynolds108 Cardboard is for professional presentations where community reputation and LOTS of money are on the line.
I have come across this before on a track backbone and it was caused by a faulty batch of seamless circular hollow section tube material from the forge. The heat of the forge was incorrect leading to a defect called reticulated cracking. If the reticulated cracking is from the inside surface of the tube, It is very difficult to spot other than Ultrasonic testing. Once the material is welded and installed, the cyclic loading of the train causes defects to grow and they usually appear on the outer surface, after a few years. They typically appear at highly stressed heat affected zones. (same as the failure of Fury 325)
The material at the forge only has to be pressure tested and visually inspected, so again, if the defect is on an internal surface, it cannot be found at the time of inspection at the steel mill.
The failure on Fury 325 is pretty quick, as Ryan stated, there are no corrosion indications, weeping down the column.
I had to switch out all tracks from the same batch of material, as we found indications on all the parts made from that batch. This was on a ride that was only 5 years old at the time. It sucked as the ride was out of warranty and the material manufacturer blamed the ride manufacturer for crappy welding. We had a metallurgist who stated the defects were clearly from the material supplier. It is not as uncommon as you think and there are many building structures where this defect will likely exist, they just don't get the cyclic loading that is introduced by the train.
Coaster structures are designed to not only take the cyclic loading of the train, but also the combined loads of wind and earthquakes, so it is very safe, even with a wobbly column or 2.
Awesome!!! You know your stuff. Was that forge problem released in a bulletin from B&M. I recall a long time ago having to check column/ track numbers on a B&M for some reason. Our model was not affected just the parks CYA.
@@ryantheridemechanic You know your stuff too Ryan. I agree with the possible theory of the sinking foundation and spot on for noting a rapid failure of the column.
I trained as a production machine tool maintenance engineer, before progressing to manufacturing engineer, in aerospace, where I learned the dark arts of materials science. Spent 15 years in the manufacturing sector before moving to theme parks. I have worked in the theme park industry for 21 years, where I have installed over 140 rides and attractions in the UK and UAE.
We spotted an indication in the parent metal on our coaster during NDT. As it was in the parent metal, a good inch or so away from the weld, we used ultrasonic to see how deep the indication was. This is where we found the bigger issue and fed the information back to the ride vendor. They gave us the batch numbers and track part numbers where the batch was used. We checked all the track parts related to the batch and noticed a higher number of indications on areas where the train load forces were greater. We had a third party metallurgist confirm the issue and all the information was fed back to the ride vendor. It appeared to be isolated to the one batch of material.
Always good to hook up with fellow theme park guys around the world to share issues. I work on project delivery for all Yas Island theme parks. (Ferrari World, WB world AD, Seaworld AD, Yas Waterworld and Clymb). A fellow ride engineer from Canada sent me a video of the failure and that's where I found your channel on YT. Keep up the good work.
@@jjhatch69 great talking with you! Thanks for the kind comments. Take care and stay safe.
You may be the only online "engineer" who got this right. So many claiming to have expert knowledge produced better graphics but still got the stress points wrong. Your examples were simple and easy to understand. I like how one "engineer" with a channel claimed the ride could be simply welded and the ride back up in a few weeks. Today they announced the column will be completely replaced, as it should. One factor not considered by these experts chiming in is the Public Relations aspect. Replacing the entire column makes a better visual, as well as engineering sense. Thank you also for stating this was not normal. I know personally this type of catastrophic failure is very rare. I still say the maint team failed here as did the reporting of the incident. That is another video. Thank you and keep up the good vids.
Thanks for the comment. I’m not an engineer, I have no degree as such. I’m just a mechanic that has spent 14 years doing this stuff and could say right off the bat that B&M would not sanction a repair. Let’s hope the replacement comes soon so they can get back up and running!
@@ryantheridemechanic In my experience the ride mechanics I know are more capable than many engineers. They see the realities of a system, not just the theory. Thanks.
Amazing analysis, so glad I found your channel a few days ago. There is so much misinformation being spread throughout the coaster enthusiast area and media about this incident, and hearing this explanation from someone who studied engineering and who has worked on other B&Ms is great to hear.
Glad your here
Thank you so much for this video! I loved your very informative renderings. 🤣 We are weekly riders of Fury, and have never felt unsafe. Will be back to riding once once she’s repaired. Really appreciate your time and explanation.
This channel is a breath of fresh air. Wow! Thank you!
Thank you
Thankyou for explaining this so well. I’m not extremely knowledgeable with rollercoaster or with the specifics, but I know how safe they are, from restraints, redundancies, etc, I’m glad their are people making videos like this that don’t cause mass panic and deter people from riding
Thank you. It much easier than people think to cause panic so I don’t want to feed those flames. And this sucks but it’s not a super bad thing. Honestly just have to wait for the repair. I’ve never ridden this but if it opened and I was there, I want to ride it for sure!!! Thing looks awesome.
I was lost on what you were saying until you showed the drawings. LOL. Very nicely explained for even non-engineering people to understand.
HAHA!! I guess I'm drawing inmate videos haha!! Thanks for the comment.
What's up Ryan? Carowinds is my home park and my son and I were there that day when this was found and shut down. Can't wait to get back and ride Fury again but just wanted to say that you getting tickled by your own content was the funniest thing I've seen in a minute. Thanks Man!!
Glad you enjoy it! Hopefully they will get fury back up ASAP that has to be hurting their attendance.
Same thing happened to my Jeep's aftermarket tire carrier lol.
oooh I can imagine, low center, overhung weight at high vibration... I can easily see that. this stuff normally happens on stuff under 20mm total thickness, typically brackets or standoff for signs.
You know what is said..."sometimes behind goofiness there is genius".
Thanks for the great explanation and the awesome drawings! Fury is a great ride and I will be happy when it is up and running again. I am a coaster fan, but my 2 boys, not so much. We live less than 10 miles from Carowinds and went often when they were younger. They both were hesitant to ride the coasters, and I would tell them the coasters are safer than our car ride to the park.Thanks for backing me up! (Those 2 are now first responders and feel totally comfortable driving emergency traffic in Charlotte. LOL!!!)
Coaster are for thrill seekers and yes a permanent ride at a permanent park is way safer than almost anything. Thanks for the comment.
B&M only works with one metalworking company, Clermont steel. So the lead time on the new part might be a bit long.
Those sketch examples deserve to be in the Getty Museum rather than on a fridge. Top tier art!
Thanks for the insight on this! It's interesting how two pressure points and one tiny little hair of a crack can lead to this. I assume the leading factor of the pressure can originate off the friction of the track with the weight of the cart. That mixed with the material used to make the supports and the age/wear-and-tear of the attraction can likely factor to this happening right??
First of all: I’m glad your having fun with my drawings. I laughed at it but I wasn’t sure how others would take it haha!
Second: everything you listed is a factor. But the main culprit is a preexisting load on the leg. Weather it was sinking or maybe a gap was sucked shut during construction? Not to sure but that leg became preloaded somehow.
@@ryantheridemechanic They are actually terrific diagrams--they show exactly what they need to show and nothing else.
@@MattMcIrvin thank you
Thanks for this explanation :) I usually feel really safe knowing more about the science behind roller coasters (such as block sections, restraints etc.) and this video also helped with that. And I gotta ask: with what software did you make those exceptional sketches? :p
@@DangerHuub custom software called handeyecoridnation can’t remember who makes it hahaha!!!!
"it puts more stress on the rest of them"
think of it like the bed of nails experiment, how a single nail would pierce your skin and make you feel extreme pain, but a hundred nails would just make you feel uncomfortable, because the stress is supported by the rest of the nails, not just one
but as you remove the nails, eventually they will start to pierce your foot slightly, until they finally just give under your pressure, and you now have many nails and not just one nail in your foot, but its still better than trying to rely on one, because one is guaranteed to have bad results
That’s a Good example of distribution of load!
Thanks for the quick and professional insight! (Love the CAD - Cartoon Aided Design)
One more thing: why is the 45° angeled support facing towards the center of the curve? Is it due to the material property of steel or just preference of the manufacturer?
inertia of the train will pull the vertical support away from the center of the turn. So the manufacture put n a 45deg leg to appose that force and keep the force on the rails not into the box beam of the track. typically the slant is just to shorthorn the leg from being to long. then the leg itself will star to cause stress on the track from sheer weight. and I love the CAD analogy!!! HAHAHA!!!
The force the train can exert is a known value. You can use a structural member in compression to resist it (an outward strut) or a member in tension to resist it (inward strut). As long as you calculated the force exerted by the train correctly, designing the diagonal strut to be outward or inward should make little difference. In this case I suspect it was angled inward because an outward support might have extended into the parking lot and using the infield (which can't be used for much else easily) was just more practical.
@@sharkheadism awesom insight!! You are spot on. If that was the base of the question i missed it. (Yes makes the footprint smaller
@@sharkheadism correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t tension preferred over compression for steel?
@@mikewalker4950 Steel can carry either force well depending on its shape. Bar steel or rods will do fine for purely tensile loads but will deflect and warp under compression, which is why flanged beams and tubes are used for compressive loads (and most flanged beams and tubes can handle tensile loading because realistically, most structures will endure both types of forces).
Its not something you see often and a B&M is not where one would expect to see it when it does happen - I am glad you addressed this because I did have a thought and you are the best person to ask, do you think it is possible that during an inspection or while painting it is possible that they rammed into it with a lift and that started the process ?
No these Columns are extremely stout. I’ve hit lots of columns with man lifts and they barely scratch let alone dint.
I'm not even going to bother comparing the teen roller coaster enthusiasts' online analysis compared to this lol I've seen some ridiculous hypothetical videos when other coasters have failed. Bless them for trying to do fancy illustrations though. They get bunch of views. This is all you need. This timely video will get you more subs. And linked elsewhere if you leave embedding turned on. This incident has been a headlining story in the 'MSM' Main Stream Media. And there weren't even any injuries or deaths. (There's been a long-running enthusiasts joke that 205ft Magnum XL-200 at Cedar Point is sinking. I don't know who started that. But my joke is that means 310ft Millennium Force on the other side of the park has gained 5 ft. One interesting thing to note about Millennium Force is it has no trim breaks. It has a couple of brackets in case it did. And 93mph hurts in the rain. You can't breathe in the first over banked turn. Trim brakes could be a video topic).
Great comment thank you! I’m conflicted internally with trim breaks. The mechanic in me says slow it down everything will work better. The rider in me says “we don’t need no stinking trim breaks!” Haha!!
The stress from the trains speeding by has sheared that corner piece clear off the support! Like you said, that's definitely a big _"WHOA!"_ and there's some serious downtime, initial inspection, (maybe) repair or replacement, even more extensive inspection of the entire ride, and overall assessment - all coming down the pike! With as high, fast, and the stress on the turns and inversions experienced on that ride under normal conditions, I would not be at all surprised if _Fury 325_ stays closed for the rest of the season! You cannot take those kind of chances!
Most of the time the footer sinking would be from water intrusion. Works down in the ground, creates flow and over time starts to loosen the footer. It’s mainly soil composition, nothing really the park could do but monitor future problems.
Great Analysis. The one thing that really bothers me though is this was not spotted by Ride Operators or even park personnel. It was spotted by a Dad sitting out in the Parking lot waiting to pickup his kids. That's who shot that footage. He immediately went to find someone. It took him talking to 4 layers of supervisor before they would even begin to take him seriously. Even with the video footage. And then it still took them quite a while to shut the ride down. There will be some serious questions asked about Carrowinds maintenance practices. The other thing that is getting overlooked is the real potential for danger isn't just at the other supports. If you look at the video there is a track section joining just a few feet to the left of this support. That joint has now undergone way more movement and stress than it was ever intended for at least a week. (Pictures have surfaced showing the initial signs of the crack a week ago). Yes the rides do not necessarily need all of the supports to run safely. But which ones it needs vs does not need are not a random selection. Some of the towers are 100% necessary because the track joinings are placed adjacent to them, and they require more solid support.
bummer. fury 325 is one of the best rides on the planet. I have a bit of engineering background and had an idea of what was going on but you broke it down better than I could. Thanks. I think it was a mistake to put a vertical support in that spot when IMO a diagonal support would have been FAR stronger. You can get away with a vertical support on a normal coaster but this one has a max speed of 95 mph. I'm thinking the park didn't want to intrude on the parking lot?
yea your right I believe the turning of the supports are done to save space not the overall ride footprint. I have extreme faith B&M did their math spot on plus safety plus service plus 25%. that's why I'm thinking the footer settled. thanks for the comment..
@@ryantheridemechanic Thank you for your expertise.
Your sketch skills are 💯
Haha! Thank you!
my plan was to make a video about this this weekend, this shouldnt happen after 6 years. THANK YOU! for also agreeing that full detailed checks need to happen on footers and supports. the footer will have to be re done, and a new support installed. and that dosnt just take 2-3 weeks like they claimed it would re open. the amound of people from the general public arguing with me saying its "fine" "it will be open with a weld or a new support within weeks"
I wouldnt ride it if thats all they did.
honestly.... to make sure there isnt any issues on any other high stress part of the ride (most of it because its fury 325 lol) they need to do the detailed support and foundation check on every foundation and support.
if done properly like it should be, I dont think It should be open this year. with construction / repairs over winter.
somthing like this needs to happen in the right way to gain back public support for rides and coasters. because god forbid if they do a botch weld job and it happends again in a few weeks or months.
When you started talking about your sophisticated visualizations, I expected something hacked together in Microsoft Paint. Then you lift the sheet of paper and I was laughing. Great explanation, Ryan!
And congratulations - when I subscribed about a week ago, you were at 160, now you crossed the 500 subscriber mark! 🎉
Look at you coming back for more thank you for the kind words. I normally design in paint but I brought out the big guns for this one hahaha!!!!
@@ryantheridemechanic I'll be around, I really love your channel! I have never worked at an amusement park (just an enthusiast there), but I have worked on the electrical systems of some fairground rides in Germany back in the day. I even built a control system for a kiddie bumper car ride and quite a bit of light control equipment (in the pre-LED days, even a set of 16 individual light controllers that were synchronized across multiple slip rings with no extra ring for a synchronization line)
So this is the place for me to nerd out! Thanks man!
@@Colaholiker never an extra slip ring!!!! Or if there is…. There’s no extra wire! What must life be so hard. Glad your here hope to talk more
@@ryantheridemechanic You know how they say - if it were simple, anyone could do it 😎
Thunderbird at HW which was built the same year as Fury had a foundation sink and crack 2 years ago in a valley where only the track was attached to the foundation. Luckily they caught it very quickly and got everything inspected and poured a whole new foundation that ended up being much larger than the original foundation. It took them about 4 weeks to fix. I imagine this one will depend on how fast they can get a new support manufactured. I also imagine this making national news makes it more complicated as well.
Really appreciate your insight! Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!
Ryan, your videos are so cool and give a unique perspective for enthusiasts on coasters and operations. You need a Ryan^2 collab with El Toro Ryan!
Thank you. Glad you like them!
Interesting insight regarding the potential foundational issues at play. Couple things pinging around my head about this incident, if there is indeed ground movement at the problem location is it likely there are other potential problem piers that need substructures or other remedial action? Second who assumes liability for the remedial action, the park, the manufacturer, a subcontractor? Seems a terrible headache overall factoring in the optics of having such a dramatic looking failure circulate widely on social media/news outlets.
P.S. Appreciate your insight! Found your channel a month or so ago and it's been very interesting learning about a side of the industry that doesn't get much exposure.
So the media attention is doing massive destruction faster than anything else will.
Park always has liability unless deemed a manufacturing defect (I don’t see how this could be that.)
If the ground has moved they will need to determine the scope of movement, only then can they discuss further action.
I remember the theme park close to where I used to live had a helix over the body of water. After about 15 years in operation, it started developing stress cracks. They found the entire helix was sinking into the water. It was a very large repair cost a lot of money, but I believe they ended up re-fabricating that whole section of track with new ground piers.
Nice technical analysis and explanation
Well I was planning to go to Carowinds for the first time at the end of August. Might have to cancel that
Your channel has gained a lot of traction in the past few days. Congratulations! I have resently subscribed and binged all your content. Love it. Eagerly awaiting more.
I would love to hear your insight on the operation and maintenance of Intamin hydraulic launch motors like the former TTD and Kigda Ka ect. They are extremely fascinating
From a coaster enthusiast in Kalamazoo Michigan
Yes I plan on a hydraulic launch video. Going to be hard to do as there is nothing to see in those systems except the main drum spinning. Thank you for the support and comments.
I’ve always wondered how many supports you could remove from a ride before it became genuinely unsafe. I’m curious as to how removing supports would affect ride safety and longevity.
Your amazing fridge artwork just gained you a new subscriber!
Welcome! I’m glad your here! It’s an easy subscription as I typically don’t post too much. I’m glad people are enjoying the videos and the artwork. Who would have thought!
This is the best video I've seen on this!
A sober, educative, and reassuring explanation, Ryan. I am curious if "sleeving" the affected area--installing more steel at the point of failure--would surrogate replacing the entire member. You mentioned this breifly, but did not elaborate. Can you?
It’s all about liability. If they want the ride to be under B&M umbrella then B&M have to allow the repair. If they go roughe an fox it how that want it to be then B&M will release all liability of that ride. It’s up to B&M if they even want to sell parts to the park at that point.
I have a feeling this channels gonna get really big soon. This is some great content :)
Thank you
I quite agree! I feel like I'm getting in at the beginning of something amazing! As a coaster enthusiast, but also someone who LOVES the mechanics and engineering side of them, I love this insight!
@@sarah.weaver thank you!
5:58 some rides that are on unstable ground (like "gold rush" @ Slagharen) have reflection markers on the supports about 1m off the ground where they shine a laser on, the laser should return to a detector if all supports in that loop are in their spot. If the support sunk, is bend or tilted the laser doesn't return to the correct spot and they can't open the ride. This is checked daily on start-up by the system.
I guess this is something that will be added to a lot more coasters in the future.
Wow. It’s normally not an issue unless like the one you described , it’s in a known problem area. Thanks for the comment.
@@ryantheridemechanic I've seen the same laser reflectors at other rides, but I've only done a start-up at the coaster of mentioned so I don't know how often others are checked. Slagharen is build on an oil and gas field so it's a known issue there for buildings aswel to slowly sink into the ground. Along as it's uniform on the whole structure it's not a problem, but some buildings have a few supports that stay put where the rest of the building keeps sinking. My parents house have the front wall about 1,5 brick (about 10cm/4 inch) higher then the rest of the house after only been there for 41 years.
It's something we have to live with here, but also something we expect. As far as I know they had to adjust the support beams once so far after one of the footers sunk after a small earthquake with only 2 days of downtime (They have adjustment bolts and filler plates for that purpose).
@@HaroldKuilman how interesting, thanks!
First Top Thrill Dragster, then El Toro, and now Fury 335?!?!?!?!? What is going on in the coaster world right now?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Strange times indeed
Corkscrew at cedar point also shedding a little bit
Worth noting there is a water drain close to the support
About time your channel starts blowing up🤯
Thank you. So amazing it all came from 1 video!
@@ryantheridemechanic keep up the good work 👍
Great video. Great engineering information. KISS method is always best!
I Wanna Rock and Roll All Nite
And party everyday
Good analysis
Im glad i found you, this is Great stuff. 😃
Thank you
My poor coaster succumbs to high tides :(
If the footers sinking or moving is a common cause of these types of failures, do any modern coasters have any kind of monitoring sensors in the footers to keep track of this?
It’s not a common thing at all. But you don’t really know it’s a problem until it’s a problem. Then it’s too late and your replacing steel and digging new support footers.
This is both hilarious and informative. Thank you!
I try for both.
How much do the rubber buffer between the track and the support on Schwartzkopf rides take off the stress of the support? Fow what I can see, the track can move about a couple of cm in every direction when a train passes.
Thank you for this video this really helped! Keep up the good work!!!
Thank you
Great video!
I do think another factor in all of this that isn’t being said much is that B&M hasn’t bothered to lighten their train designs as their coasters get faster and more forceful. Intamin has had many issues, but they realized a long time ago the trains needed to be as light as safely possible. I305 is a good example. They re-profiles the first bank turn as it was too forceful for guests, but it hasn’t had any major structural issues and it seems they learned from mistakes made on Millennium Force.
CAD is called Cardboard Aided Design in non-technical terms and is very inexpensive.
And it can be use as canvas or construction!!! Haha!
Excellent video!!!
Thank you very much!
fab youtube content. well done sir
Do you happen to know how often (If at all) support beams are checked?
I'd assume visual inspections are daily/weekly, but how about NDT of the weld joints?
Visually checked daily i always told guys you will never see 360° so look do dust, chipped concrete, and rust that’s a tattletale that there’s a problem. Most parks annually NDT with an outside company this is just very close up visual. And then mag partial if any indications are found.
@@ryantheridemechanic awesome, thanks for answering!
what about the fact the support was in tension rather than compression? given the bank angle, id really imagine compression would've withstood more force...
Steel is stronger in tension than compression. You need significantly more steel to give the same compressive strength of say concrete.
@@walterandclaude even after being heat effected? Generally welds don't break the steel on the sides does. I'm just saying it would've been easier on the support if it was compressing the steel rather than trying to rip the weld apart
Possibly but these things typically don’t matter much. They are overbuilt to start with. This makes this event very odd.
Since this is so much in the public arena, is there pressure to go above and beyond the technical specs to make the public feel safe (i.e. replace the column rather than repair even though a repair may be deemed technically feasible?)
Yes there is a knee jerk reaction that the park will more than likely do sense it’s in the media. (I’m guessing,) They will invite some news sources in to show them how they will inspect the rides to show people they do their job to keep it safe. The only way to fight media is with media. They will want to hit key words like manufacture had us repair it. Or something that shows they went outside their company for a check and balance in good faith.
you deserve more subs
thank you! I'm great full your here!
Such an amazing video!
Thank you
Do you have a designated park where you work, or do you travel to different parks to work? Also do you enjoy riding rides as well, or just working on them
So I’ve been out of the industry for 5 years now that the reason I can talk about this stuff. During my last job I stayed at one park and it was extremely rare to go to a different park unless you were engineering. And yes I still love going to parks whenever I can to take a ride on something new.
Allegedly the crack already showed up for weeks ago leading into snap. If that's the case, honestly, the problem is not the sole failure of the single support column (we all engineer can agree that B&M Coaster is overbuild af). The problem is just, what they are really doing during daily morning inspection including visual inspection on every part of the ride. Like, this is CF we talked about.
But you know, I'm willing to get corrected if that's not the case
Just seen official. Reopening May 2024 !
never thought about the foundation supports sinking. that's a whole new can of worms. Soil problem in just one couple sq meter of ground??, prob not likely. This story might have legs.
You're doing numbers with this vid
Yea!! So amazing to see this sort of reaction! I’ve gotten like 100 subscribers today alone. Wow! I still have a bunch of your comments I plan on making videos with. I’m about to start on your LSM Vs LIM.
@@ryantheridemechanic Cool. I've been namedropping you to get people to watch your videos because there is no shortage of unsubstantiated thoosie speculation about this incident and literally everything else... some of the ideas they come up with just make me think "Good grief."
As an unrelated question I'd like to know more about chain and anti-rollback dogs on inverts. Despite working at a park I never actually saw them--I wasn't the one crawling under or over stuff to inspect them, lol. Do inverted/suspended/flying coasters get the dogs to stick up with springs or are they counterweighted to 'flip up,' or a combination of the two? If they were purely counterweighted I guess that would introduce the problem of the dog slamming up and down as the vehicle changed its attitude in loops and such.
So many spoiled trips to carowinds 😢
@@sharkheadism they are held up with springs mainly. Return reaction time is key for both. No hard up means they won’t engage. Too hard they can mushroom and the leads to cracks. I can do some topics on this.
@@SurvivorQT rides down are never fun.
I think the ride will be down for the summer. It's over. No reason to rush job the repair and to fast track RCA - it's not worth it. CedarFair has to eat this.
After years and years of hearing “Vortex’s footers are sinking” and “Magnum’s footers are sinking” and writing it off as silly speculation from GP and sometimes thoosies who think they know engineering, my mind is actually blown discovering that it can in fact happen, even if it wasn’t true for Vortex Magnum.
How do you feel about the merger between SF and CF?
I’m releasing a video today about it.
I had no idea you could remove 2 or 3 supports and still be okay. I think people's fears with respect to this event are reasonable if they don't have the training you do. How do we know how long it might take for the other supports to fall apart after the first goes? What if there are similar undetected cracks in the other supports and with the loss of that one large support the rest widen at an accelerated rate? Or are you saying you just don't expect / its very unlikely for there to be cracks in the other columns?
In any case its nice to hear an expert view. But I dislike how everyone pretends that this is some how a normal response. Unless you are a trained ride mechanic or engineer you're not going to think this is regular behavior for a rollercoaster or for a bridge or anywhere else cracks might form.
The action was to NDT the track and structure, this was done. Seems they found no other indications. Depending on what they found wrong, that will determine future actions. If I was told nothing was wrong just a freak failure, then I’m going to shut the ride down 3 times a year and have it NDT. Special inspections the whole 9 yards. If they said there was a problem with that support like the footer sank or it was in the wrong location front he start , I’m going to keep the annual inspection as usual because there was abnormal circumstances around that support.
So many coaster engineers !!!. 15 expert coaster designers in this video comments alone !
When is the world no longer in danger from these rogue coaster manufacturers? We need more coaster engineers on youtube and we will no longer need to buy them from Switzerland.
We will make Many computer renderings and make sure they are smarter than the people who built it. Make sure we trust them, because..... Well just because they are UA-cam expert with nifty title !
All those coaster builders at B&M and Intamin are not smart anyway. They are just sitting in their drawers, typing on their keyboards in their grandma's basement.
I'm so glad we have so many "experts" on youtube. That version 1.07 of Roller World Coaster Tycoon has paid off in this video alone. I only have 2 junior college physics classes" so I'm not qualified yet. Most of these experts have 3! Along with 50 hours of welding.
I’m GP. My biggest issues are 1) the crack was there at least a week prior and their “daily safety checks” missed it 2) the park blew off the guy who reported the issue and only shut the ride down when fire dept got involved. Both suggest a cavalier approach to safety by Carowinds.
It's not the footer, and it's not a metallurgical defect. It's a design/quality control problem leading to an assembly issue. I've seen some close-up images on the track to column joint. This one is on B&M, the construction team, the state inspectors, design reviewers, and CF themselves. The track plate and column plate bolt holes do not match, so the assembly team could not get all the bolts into the connection. This will cause uneven loading on one side, effectively twisting the top off the column over a period of time. This should have been highlighted during construction and subsequently during quality control/annual inspections. Poor show all round, really. Can't wait to hear the official story. I'll get my popcorn.
Really
So crazy it happen ! The track could have broke and all the cars fly off through the air and everyone would be dead and decapitated !!
Just rode this ride a yesterday. First ride of the day 😮
After a 35 year career in aerospace structural testing, your analysis is woefully inadequate..... My first look at that video and several things jumped out at me ...... For starters, the design engineer should be shot! You build a tall support and then the actual support is cantilevered on top of it, negating most of the support, and placing all the stress on the front of that weld. The load path is 90 degrees to the support. Second, that is a BREAK! Huge detail but then, your entire analysis describes a static loading system, which this clearly is not. My first guess with no other data is that this is a fatigue failure, caused by the multiple load-cycles it experienced while being cantilever-loaded..... After you load-cycle steel a few million times, the molecular structure of the steel changes to that of glass, aka "glass transition state", and the next cycle with any load will shatter that steel like glass and that is what i am seeing..... if this were a static issue, the steel would have stretched first before breaking...... Also, all the spot-testing in the world cannot predict the next failure because fatigue failures happen so quick.........
But hey, i do agree it was not dangerous..... and yes, you could remove that support altogether and it would only make it quicker for the surrounding supports to fail.....
Do you really think this structure has seen a few million cycles?
@@sharkheadism Quite possible but it would be easy to get a guesstimate....... 2 cycles a minute times 60 minutes an hour times 12 hrs a day times 100 days = 144,000 cycles and would be a conservative estimate for one season.... and that's not even considering if the loading "rings" or not..... So, engineers start to worry around the 2 million cycle range...... more quick math says it would reach that in 14 seasons or less...... Now, if that were an aerospace part, it would be load-cycled to failure to see when that happens. I did not check to see the age here but, with the cantilevered loading problem, who knows what and where the real loading is, unless someone tested that design at some point.....
Well I’m not disagreeing with any of you analysis. All i am saying is that I’ve worked on several of these between 20-30 years old and the one I took care of didn’t have A crack that we had to repair in the 14 years I worked with it. So typically it’s rather a footer moved or they used 2 cranes and a big rig to twist the track together and bolt it during installation. Not that I’ve ever done that.
@@No1Armadillo The ride's stated capacity is 1,470 riders per hour, or about 46 trains per hour. The park is open about 213 days this year, so if each day's operation was 12 hours, that would be 117, 576 cycles. That's still a high estimate as not every day will be 12 hours of operation and there will be times this ride doesn't run due to weather and other factors... It has likely not even hit its millionth run yet (it opened in 2015). And there are steel coasters much older than it that have done many more cycles than Fury and they're fine. All of the coaster manufacturers out there employ mechanical and structural engineers too.