What's a Flitch Beam and What are The Benefits? ~ Extension #35
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- James explains what a flitch beam is and what the benefits are.
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oh i just made a fliched beam for my garden room above the bifold door. really easy to attach cladding, plywood and the frame
Super video guys👊Fair play to you working up in that loft space, and props to SkillBuilders very own 'Mr Motivator' Roger🤩
And it’s great to see JJ working away. 💪🏻🔨He’s so good they had no name him twice!
He done f all
@@RepairShop2022 he works, he was just camera shy.
Done something in a roof years ago and chiselled out a small patch which absorbed the plate washer and bolt head so plaster boarded straight over the timber no probs
Another cracking video! Looks like there was so much work up in that loft well done lads! 💪🏻
Don’t worry, there’s still some more for you to do up there when you’re back! 😉
@@jimichip I’m right handed , I’ll be over soon to even things up. 👊🏻
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. you’re more than welcome, we need to wrap this job up asap!
Class as always guys. Best of luck JJ.....you’re working with top boys 👌🏼🏴👍🏼
Engineers should be forced to work on site every 5 years for 6 months so they stop over engineering everything!
They'll be specifying 4x 2 battens soon, the last job we done the structural engineer was rubbish, we had to get stuff corrected 2 or 3 times with our designs. One of which being a whole corner of the roof with no support which he then charged the client hundreds for. An absolute joke. FYI was their engineer not ours.
Great new build! Looking forward to see how things develop.
Always trust a man wearing a £10 Casio. The backbone of the world.
You guys make best team
OK James we got the hint, will send more screws!
Subtle hint. He did try to buy some, honestly.
Thanks guys!😉
Can you send me some please? I’ve sat through so many plugs for ForgeFast screws I have dreams about them! Wake up in a cold sweat worrying Spax caught me cheating! 🤣
Flitch beams are my preferred weapon of choice too, so much easier to work with.
Great video, and nice music too :)
Thank you very much!
Just out of interest the difference between universal beams and rolled steel joist is the section. RSJs have much thicker flanges with a steeper angle (about 5 deg) whereas UCs have almost parallel flanges. In reply to a previous comment I will say that if you take a building inspectors advice on structures make sure your insurance is up because if it falls down the council will take no responsibilty for it. Building inspectors are only there to make sure that the building complies with the approved plans.
Martin That is good advice on the building inspectors and interesting about the RSJ. I guess a rolled joist is run through rollers when it is hot where a universal column is pressed.
RSJ's lighter than UB's but only strong in 1 orientation.
As i understand it
@@joeatkin6600 I'm not sure about that. UBs tend to be wider across the flanges in relation to depth than RSJs. The flanges are also thinner and parallel in section. I recall many years ago one being specified as a runway beam for a chain block and at full load the flanges bent. You really need an engineer to pontificate on this, but I've little faith in modern ones with their computers. Total inability to resolve the forces on a hip is just one thing amongst others. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I look at the amount of timber in this roof and I wonder why they don't carve it out of a solid block!! I was brought up on the likes of McKay's carpentry.
Watching James drill the metal plate, I thought that guy was going to disappear through the floor!?
Belt and Braces 👏
Good one 👍👋 not easy working in a loft ,Hi woody 😁 👍🇮🇪☘️👋
There’s a snake in ma boot!
Lovely man
Regards
Faruk
Hi James can may know the main flich beam measurement please tiknes of the still and a timber please thank you
Keep hammering the bolt into the steel plate, it’ll make it so much easier to fit the nuts !
Good point. They wiggle through easily enough so put the hammer back in that lovely Diamondback toolbelt.
JJ, get some knee protection! Your knees won't last forever :-)
Hi there. Not on topic for this video, however I have watched and sympathised with the video you did a while ago about the good and bad concerning heat pumps. You have been singled out and criticised by other channels of intallers who take issue with your criticisms and complaints. You need to watch and respond to these other channels. They have you in their sights, you need to answer them.
Hi David
I know that I have been critcised by some of those other channels and it is all part of what happens if you stick your head above the parapet. I am fairly certain that I would not change the minds of any of them because they all make a living from installing heat pumps. I am sure they all have their hearts in the right place and when I do talk to them it is surprising how much common ground there is. If we go down the intended route of taking out gas boilers and replacing them with heat pumps it will do that industry a lot of harm because heat pumps will get a very bad name. I am doing them a favour if they only knew it. The short term gain from the grant will destablise their market and make it harder for them in the future.
@@SkillBuilder Danger is not that you fail to alter the other utubers opinions, rather that criticisms of you leveled by others have an impact on the impression you make when discussing the heat pump issue. they undermine your input and put your arguaments into question. I'm simply recommending that you defend yourself.
that little drill with a 12ah battery must last all week
Its 12volts... not 12Ah... 😏
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 it's an m18. 18 volt 12 ah High output
Yeah it was the only 18v battery that we had charged at the time! It does look a bit ridiculous but it does the job.
amazingly i am doin the exact things to my attic, purlins beams supported by 4x4 posts supported by flitch beam supported by girders ontop of the wall's top plate, to make a better space. Creepy how UA-cam/Google knows...
Hah, pretty clear you guys read all the comments on Robins video where he was putting that 3 ply together. You’ve basically addressed everything they were moaning about hahaha especially bolts related and plates. And timber drying out lol
If you want the honest answer, we didn't even know he had done anything on flitched beams. We will take a look.
What size are them there beams?
Flitch, or glulams are way better than having to move a steel around.
Brits seem to make decent "builders", although I do prefer the Irish skilled lads. A lowly Canadians opinion. The sense of humor is also an added advantage.
Most of the good Irish have now retired
@@RepairShop2022 I have had opportunity to meet and work with a group of young Irish carpenters over the past ten years. Found that with couple of exceptions I would have them any day. They are predominantly around 30 years of age. I wish I could say the same about young canadian carpenters.
@@francoisbouvier7861 👍
👍
I take it that the wood stops the steel from buckling.
"We used to call them RSJs didn't we" well yes, but also no. They are actually different from modern I sections. Old steel grade, is similar to S275 strength, but the difference is RSJ have flanges that thicken at the root with the web, whereas UB or UC section have parallel and constant thickness flanges, other than at their root radius. Ditto for PFC, hence the name parallel flange channel. I presume the old style is stronger in torsion or buckling than it otherwise would've been, due to its shape. But if that's the issue, go to a box section. Probably a case of being easier to manufacture the modern ones, or that they're strong enough for their depth for normal applications, while using less steel. Well that was a tangent.....sorry
I love this kind of information but for most people an RSJ is an easy bit of short hand but should not be confused with an Irish Jay as I heard one customer call it.
@@SkillBuilder an Irish Jay?! Good Lord. Well at least they're trying.
that is the most over engineered loft space ever.
Not watching Robin Clevett then?
First to comment....yeah boi
Did you say forgefast ??????????????????
Talk about over engineered
Yep, it won't be falling down anytime soon
Carting in the loft with a grinder is not a good idea
It is a hell of a lot better than lugging that beam back down stairs. We don't do it often and checked carefully for any fire hazards.
Skill Builder you need an apprentice with a spark catcher bucket 😂
@@SBIGDTSM too funny I saw that on the tools earlier this month, broke my shit laughing
Spark chatcher, use them some times when cutting pipes in a nice clean area, usually the apprentice with a fire blanket followings sparks as I cut the pipe, both wearing appropriate ppe of course
What is really evident from the video is the amount of technical thought goes into this type of building work. Very impressive. I wish I could find builders of this calibre. Yesterday the boiler installer had to come back to correct the condensate waste pipe. He had put the lengths extending in the horizontal plane mostly level and in one area inclined in the wrong direction i.e. uphill. I had to refer him to the minimums set out in the installation guide and also to get confirmation from the boiler manufacturer that if not corrected the guarantee would be invalid. This is my constant experience. I have to find out how the job is done and then check that the tradesman does it correctly. It is clear from your video how much skill and knowledge is required in building. I wish all builders were as capable.
Guys used to do a full indentured apprenticeships which were scraped in favour of YTs, that was a complete disaster so they went on to NVQ's. Still no where near a City and Guild of an indentured guy.
The old guys are better or young guys that have been trained by an older guy.
This is so true. Get 3 people in for quotes and each will mention something the others didn't.. After that you're armed with the facts.
Definitely. And it's exactly the reason I've learned to do a lot of things myself. That way I know it's right or at the very least done better than majority of so called professionals I've dealt with.
@@harveysmith100 You know what NVQ stands for " NOT. VERY. QUALIFIED. " 🤣.
Steel is a strange substance for a joiner.Wrap it up in wood.
God I wish all builders were half as good as these guys. From where I am they're the exception rather than the rule.
Back years ago me and my mate pat stormed through stud work, one left handed and one handed you would be surprised how many benefits there were to having one normal left hander and a doggy right hander 🥴
He's got the patience of a saints has James. Well done Rodger on getting a job with the BBC with the size of that camera 🙂😀😀
I'm a building inspector (20 years now) and love I flitch beams, so much more flexible to use and handle for the builder, as well as very strong. In loft conversions, a design I used to recommend quite a bit was laying a 12 x 4 under the original purlin (usually a 9 x 3). As the work was in the loft the builder would knock a hole in the gable to get the beam in. If it had to be cut because of the proximity of the neighbouring house then the cut would be at the end of the beam where the bending moment was least. Lay the beam directly under the purlin and sheath with 3/4" to a 1" ply depending on the scenario and screw fix with stepped staggered joints. You could park a bloody bus on those beams! Beauty is you can then fix joist hangers straight off the face. Make access pockets at the ends, again at the least bending moment and you are cooking on gas! 😀
What is your opinion on the positioning of the steel plate?
@@SkillBuilder I don't have an issue with the position of the steel plate, it looked good to me. It's good to see the parallel bolt holes at the end and then the staggered fixings along the length, normally @ 16" (400mm) centres. With the flitch at the base of the timbers the steel takes the loading directly from the point of support and not the timber (if it were based centrally). The timber is technically not there for support as such but to arrest deflection of the steel and to provide a point of fixing. I love to see them used on projects. He's done a great job and he'd certainly get a final certificate from me!
@@michaelmewis4761 always wonderful to read and learn from another's wealth of experience.
@@michaelmewis4761, when ''the steel takes the loading directly from the point of support and not the timber'', would a steel plate to spread that load over a softer material be required?
@@leehaelters6182 That is a good point Lee. Dependent on the load I would say yes, although in my experience flitch beams are specified by engineers where the loads are not so intense, e.g. in this case, to carry domestic floor loadings in which case a concrete pad stone would suffice. A spreader plate would be good if you could get one in without putting the beam out of level. Another method for distributing the load on a wall is to place a 'Spanlite' over the masonry so that the loading is spread 'over' rather than being a point load In essence it's like making a point load into a UDL.
Roger, I'm impressed that you know the word origin of sinister! Never trust a southpaw...haha.
Applies to the French, too; left-handers are 'Gauche'. So, I'm both sinister and gauche. Nice.
He should have added that right handed is dexterous 😉
Just watched your heat pump debunking. I wanted to thank you here for such an excellent breakdown with solid facts and experience.
It's technically called a "Flitched" beam, made using a "Flitch" plate, which is a common phrase for a plate of material used to enhance the integrity of a structure or assembly
Sorry Mr Google
Thanks for that, we love accuracy in the language.
@@samhewitt7862 That's "Sexist" ... Google that 😏
I haven't seen of a Flitched beam like this, since I was an apprentice in the Eighties. Then it was 9"x 2 1/2" timbers with steel in-between to match existing lintels at windows in a preservation zone in London. We then had to add a special paste, administered by a specialist company, so we were only aloud back after some weeks, this paste was placed between steel and wood to stop we were told the reaction to each both other when placed together. I've never come across it since and wondered why when we clamp on timber to RSJ's all the time and saw little difference. As it wasn't used more, I put it down to being Just frowned upon. There's been loads of occasions when this would have worked for me. Thanks for the Vid 👍
A ‘flitch’ in sawmilling terms is a single slice off a log.
Wow, the climate must be perfect there right now. I wonder what the typical daytime temperature is there, when this was being filmed?
Whenever I'm doing anything in an attic, it's either so hot that I'm breaking a sweat before I get both feet off the ladder, or it's so cold that I can see my breath and I'm wanting to build a fire in the middle of the floor (don't do that!).
3:28 is when they start talking about flitch beams
James’s beard is starting to look like another famous James, namely the dashingly handsome James P. "Sulley" Sullivan. Gorgeous
get that 12ah battery off that drill hahahaaa
Some great info on flitch beams here. How does the maximum unsupport span compare between 2x6 flitch beam and just a doubled up 2x6 beam? I am researching a flat roof project and want to avoid a LBW every 8ft. Also, could the same logic be applied to ground floor joists on pier foundations?
"Where's James?" I think James should wear His newly found hat next time you ask Him that question Roger? Thanks for all your hard work lads! 👏
Cracking video. I've got a Milwaukee 12v impact driver, brilliant bit of kit as is all the M12 gear.
Run out of screws, that means bacon roll time.
I (and TRADA) recommend placing the flitch plate mid-depth. This allows for timber shrinkage top and bottom without plate protruding. The plate should ideally be at least 20mm less than timber height.
Bearing is not an issue as there should be 2 or more bolts at each end (as James had in his sample) which are to transfer the load out of the plate into the timbers sides so they can do all the bearing.
@@pyrrhical3423 Well...
1) I've never seen a flitch beam made from 2x4s, usually min. 145mm deep in my experience.
2) I'm not sure what you mean by 'shrinkage under load doesnt occur in the compression face'? Shrinkage occurs tangential to growth rings due to moisture loss, which has nothing to do with forces in the beam.
3) the 20mm is for a variety of reasons - shrinkage allowance is one of them, but it also gives some tolerance for plate being a bit off center, timbers being crowned and allows some depth for planing if needed to level up floor.
4) if the plate protrudes and that is what is bearing then, if it's bearing onto timber, chances are the concentration of force on the narrow plate will exceed the capacity of the timber it sits on and locally crush it until the timbers end up in contact again.
5) Why do you think flitches are over designed? Mine are usually designed to be just in. They have to have a factor of safety and often it is deflection criteria that dictates their size. In terms of efficiency, a flitch plate is the most structurally inefficient use of steel - ideally the majority of the steel should be at the extremities of the beam, i.e. like an i-beam. Flitch plates can often end up heavier than an equivalent steel beam that would do the job. Sometimes the trade off is worth it for other practical reasons such as being able to support a flitch beam off hangers, ease of adjustment of length on site, ability to nail hangers onto the side etc.
@@smartbuildengineering
Thank you for your knowledgeable contribution Sir...
Mr. Whites 2×4 flitch beams must be a sight to behold... 🙄😂
😎👍☘🍺
Thank you for that, as a builder we are often left to our own devices and in this case it has always been the best (easiest) route for me hunched over and struggling in a tight space but your method (and TRADA’s) makes sense so I’ve already been thinking of ways to efficiently put a flitch beam together in that way.
@@jimichip I wish there was more interaction between builders and engineers, especially at the domestic end of the market - I think each can learn from the other to achieve a better/easier end result for all. Having built a few loft conversions myself, I've got respect for the range of skills a builder needs and the gap between drawings and reality.
@@smartbuildengineering it would definitely be a good thing to break the invisible barrier down between builder and engineer but I suppose that (at least from the builders end based on a lot of builders I’ve met over the years) there are a lot of hard headed people that think they know best. It’s a difficult industry with people from vast ends of the country’s spectrum but it would be good to form some kind of happy medium for all. It would definitely improve the quality of building especially in the domestic side of things.
Will Gillette hurry up and sponsor James already…
He is going to shave it off with one of his newly sharpened chisels.
Not a chance. He's a straight white male.
Winters coming so he needs the extra insulation
It’s horrible working in lofts.
Great job learning a lot with your video , well done thanks to all
A question for James, if you don’t mind me asking! Where did you get the socket for your Impact driver? I can only find up to 10mm in a 1/4 hex inch drive - and most coach bolts need a 17mm.
Or is it a regular socket plus an adaptor? I wasn’t sure how one of those adaptor bits you see on Amazon / eBay (1/4 inch hex to 3/8 or 1/2 inch square) would hold up… so am on the hunt for a proper impact rated socket bit in the right size.
I’ve got 50 coach bolts to do soon and has reigned myself to using a ratchet, as it’s not worth a Milwaukee impact wrench for so little!
Hi there, funnily enough I’d been looking for a set for a while to fit my impact driver and I saw the set that I now have whilst paying at the counter in screwfix! It’s an erbauer set and it costs around £15. I’ll see if I can find a link.
I will second that scrwfix do a good set for 15 quid
@@jimichip Hi James; thank you so much for taking the time to reply - I appreciate it! I've spotted that set at Screwfix so will pick one up - thanks again for the info!
JJ looks exactly like a young whiteboy7thst
what span could we expect a flitch beam to spread over if using 2 x 6x2 timbers with steel core.
Compound wing spars work like Flitches too. You Get a supporting length that is many times more resistant to bending than using a single beam of the same thickness. Imagine doing this in a roasting hot loft during summer….these guys earn their crust. 👍
I know he’s only a poor old plumber but surly now James is famous he can get some better work trousers than site! 😂… aren’t you guys sponsored by snickers?? Help the man out, he gives you loads of content… great stuff as always guys! 🍻
We value James and we will get him some Snickers when he has decided on the size
at this point in my life i dont fined much ive not herd of but you just showed me somthing new thank you ! i like that little bit of kit !
what an Amazing Idea these Flitch beans are, makes me wonder why no one thought about them ages ago thumps up to the bloke who first thought about it, Brilliant hope he did well out of it
They are hundreds of years old
@@SkillBuilder wow many thanks mate am always learning from you blokes cheers
Legends!!
The boys up in the loft touching each other’s flitch beam all day
This could be a really great channel if it didn't sound like a bunch of market traders
I’m currently a sheet metal worker but since buying a house with my partner that we are fully renovating I have a new found love for wood work and building work in general, seriously considering packing in metal work and becoming a chippie…
Go for it, currently on an apprenticeship and i love it can’t wait til i’m fully qualified
Don’t do it Ull wind up a bitter and twisted person with no friends and loads of splinters
There's alot more tools needed and the money doesn't always match the investment you've put in I'd suggest doing a few jobs on the side and seeing if the work you can charge for matches your own personal cost of living good luck pal 😉 let us know how you get on 🔨
@@tomsmith9048 ur right there if ur gonna do it for a living ur gonna need all the kit a van to cart it around and then have trouble holding on to them (van thieves the Bain of every builder ) but if the guy likes it good luck to him
Brilliant video. Do you have or will you be doing a video on how to do an attic conversion?
Nice work chaps. Can’t beat crawling around a loft…
👊🏻
Cheers Dan.
Always love the banter in these episodes, just great fun, but bloody hard work. Still left handed carpenters are a bigger issue, lol
Nowt wrong with lefties mate, usually the brains of the outfit😄
Creative types.
Great work, my knees are hurting looking at poor James!
Does the original flitch beam stay in place because you appear to be cutting through it at 15.22 on the video. The new flitch beams that run across the span do they rest on the wallplates?
The original flitch has now gone. The new ones run from the rear external wall plate to an internal spine wall which is off centre which, in turn, supports the new trimmers that run from left to right(or right to left depending on which way you’re looking at it!)
Nice to see Rogers plumbing at 10 minutes in 😝
Great explanation of the flitch plate and the demo really brought it home.
Excellent video as always 👍👍
That drill sounds just like the into on Immigrant Song.
James is a muscian, he can get a tune out of anything
Forget building stuff , can we have a walk-around video of Rogers's video camera please 😀. Another interesting video btw 😁
I think we might do one episode of behind the scenes stuff showing the filming and editing, plus a little bit of chat about how we go together.
@@SkillBuilder I'd love to see that!
@@SkillBuilder deffo like to see that guys 👌🏼🏴👍🏼
Problem with steel is CE regs.
What is the best food to avoid diabetes?
James has an estwing 16s... Can't help but notice it looks like he's taken the lacquer off! What was the reason? Or just wear and tear?
It’s a 20 and it’s all wear and tear.
@@jimichip nice I've been considering taking my lacquer off as gives blisters!
@@JustLikeBuildingThings give it a go, it might be the best thing you’ve ever done. And if not you can always re lacquer it. Tools are there for us, adjust them to suit your needs and make you job easier and more enjoyable.
Michael Caine ???
Flitch lives!
Thumbs Down. Cannot get through the start-up adds. Not worth wasting time on.
Sorry to waste your time, I am sure you have a lot to do.
I like this….can I just check I’m understanding correctly? Are you saying that a flitch beam can replace an RSJ without having to increase the designed section size (or not significantly increase it)? I can see how the steel plate is still the ‘web’ but are the adjacent timbers now the ‘flanges’? I hope I’ve made sense. I had a situation where lack of space and a large RSJ could have been made significantly easier if I’d been able to ‘make-up’ my own beam. Thanks 👍
Great and informative video, thanks. If flitch beams are to bear onto masonry walls is any kind of padstone or plate typically required? Padstones would be a problem for me as they would then need building into below ceiling level. I could probably fit a steel plate if required, but didn’t know whether it would be necessary when only carrying a domestic floor.
Interesting and great work! What grade of steel is it? I'm in the US but can figure out our nearest standard from that of the UK/EU. And it looks like cold-rolled, correct? thanks
1:06 Went to all the trouble to verify he has a metric square, but didn't warn him to use a metric saw to avoid screwing up the cut. Tsk, tsk. Sloppy work, fellas. 😉
Excuse my ignorance, but is the Flitch Plate used to join two timbers in length? I thought the plate would protrude enough to join another beam.to it.
Nice job lads... I cut my teeth on loft conversions doing my apprenticeship... Rarely used flitch beams... The architects loved the steel beams... 👍😁
can you attach the joist hangers directly to the flitch beams? Without having to dig a section within the flitch beam?
ok - only watched 2 1/2 minutes and I already want to somehow work with these guys and I'm not even a carpenter.
I’m hoping to get a loft conversion within the next year. Do you plan to do a consumer guide on how to start? What can go wrong etc?
when we spoke on the phone i assumed he was normal
I like that Michael Caine took time to film this.
Great video!
Are those ceiling joists sistered or have they been flitched too?
The existing ceiling joists have been fixed together with a 6x4 binder which in turn is fixed to the new trimmers with heavy duty angle brackets.
I had the idea of using galvanised steel C sections... the same steel as used in steel shed/building construction in 3m lengths but bolted back to back iin a sort of staggered formation to then run the length of my roof ...to create the internal steel beams
---- ---- ---- ---- ----
----- ---- ---- ----
this sort of formation.
ps... these 3m C sections can be bought quite cheaply as salvage items or offcut.
Sounds like two parallel flange channels bolted together. This is common practice so you’re on the right track!
Don't you have plywood?
The engineer called for steel
I do American flitch beams they're like 30% stronger than the British ones.
They would be
@@SkillBuilder I've never actually used a flitch beam and don't think they're very common in the United States, but if you needed a narrow beam to hold more load than just wood this would be great. I would totally do this if I ran into a situation that needed it.
Do you just use mild steel when you make these things?