While playing along with the pre-recorded tracks I find that if I can balance, in my ear , the trumpet or saxophone that is playing the melody with my own instrument whether it’s Sax or the flute, and use that Balance as a tool for matching intonation and performance. I find that really concentrating and hearing my sound in balance with the other melody instruments gives me the best way to play in tune on unison melodies.
Good video, thanks Thomas. Its also a reminder that clarity in a band can be muddied if another instrument is not quite in tune. I've too often put up with a guitarist who has one string slightly out. Its a lose lose situation as I over think my own intonation AND make allowances for the out of tuneness around me. Sloppy tuning doesnt help anyone.
Interesting video Thomas. I think probably the main reason many sax players have intonation problems is that tuning simply isn't emphasised enough in formal musical education, so many players don't give it enough attention. Also people in general accept poor sax tuning as some how part of the sound. If a singer is out of tune, they will hear it immediately, but not a sax. If anyone recording software with Melodyne pitch correction, it is very interesting to analyse your performance (I'm not suggesting people should autotune their recordings - I just fixed a dodgy top F). You can see pitch blobs and also a continuous line, which is actual frequency over time. This can show vibrato coming in at the end of a note and how accurate your initial transients are.
Speaking of don't make the same mistake as me - DON'T tune with your eyes! That's actually counterproductive IME. Use a drone or a backing track and use your EARS. Also don't be too much of a perfectionist - time, tone, phrasing, articulation, harmonic content, melodic shape/logic are all at least as important as intonation. The real key to playing in tune is the same as every other part of playing music - close listening and audiating often enough that you learn to play what you hear on your instrument.
Hi Lukas, I completely get what you mean with not tuning with your eyes, though f.e. in the first exercise I’m showing it is about first using your ears and then correcting your intonation by using a tuner as a reference. So I’d argue for not condemning tuners entirely, it can be a very helpful tool, but the goal should be to develop your ears, not your eyesight ;)
Did you pass the tuning test? Let me know down here! Album recommendations for Mark Turner: "Mark Turner", "Dharma Days" and as sideman "The Remedy" Kurt Rosenwinkel Group). Album recommendations for Chris Potter: "Got the Keys to the Kingdom: Live at the Village Vanguard", "Imaginary Cities" & as a sideman "Lost in a Dream" (Paul Motian)
Check out the classical players. Check out the great big band sax sections of the 1920´through to The Count Basie Ghost Band today. The goal is to play in tune with the other instruments in the ensemble you are playing with. Play duets and work on tuning together. Forget using tuners to train your ear. Go play duo with a guitar then play duo with a piano or even more illuminating, a Hammond organ. The most "in tune" instrument to play with is a Vibraphone without the tremolo. Listen to things that are in tune or are played in tune . Play along with symphony orchestras, that is an eye opener! The saxophone is not an "in tune" instrument. You need to know alternate fingerings an when to use them. If the piano at the gig is out of tune, you have to adjust and make it sound in tune.
Great points bob! Since someone else also commented quite strictly against tuners, I’d just like to argue that it is completely fine to use a tuner to check if your ears are correct (f.e. in the first exercise I’m showing you’re using your ears first and then you check if you’re really right by using a tuner). For someone who didn’t spend much time with practicing intonation yet, it can be too big of a step of only relying on your ears (especially if there’s no teacher around to correct you). But of course the goal is to develop your ears and become independent of a tuner.
Other interesting intonation checks...does your 1 finger C match the pitch of the first harmonic of the Low C? How about for B and Bb? It's also a nice cross-check for where the mouthpiece should be to extract the best possible intonation tendencies of your saxophone.
Hi Akitika, interesting point, though I'd be cautious with using the overtones as a reference for the regular fingerings. Usually you do it the other way around, tuning the overtones to the regular fingerings. Overtones can be very wildly out of tune, but of course if you cannot bring overtones and regular fingerings together at all, you might need to change the mouthpiece position as you mentioned.
Coltrane's intonation is out of this world. Can't hear any wrong pitches. Birds is really good as well. but there are some players whose intonation becomes part of the sound like dexter and jackie clean. fela kuti's intonation is way off but he still sounds great
Hi Dan, you have a good point. For some players, not being in tune becomes part of their sound. Also Charles Lloyd is a good example for that. My favorite example is always Warne Marsh playing "You Don't Know What Love Is". He's playing certain notes a bit sharp or a bit flat in the melody which adds a lot of character and emotion.
Is the soprano next to you a Mark 6? That's quite to play in tune, I have to make lot of adjustment with the embrochure with mine. Some notes are really off.
Hi Giovanni, it’s actually a Yanagisawa Elimona, this one plays in tune pretty much perfectly. But I heard that mark vi sopranos can be not great when it comes to intonation
No I'm definitely not playing in tune. Certain amount of notes I am, but some notes are not in tune. Have trouble with the Db/C#. very aggravating! Thanks for Video I work on that advise..
Hi Steve, thanks for your comment! Since you mentioned the c#, you might want to check out my video about the mouthpiece exercise, it could help with that. Often a very high c# comes from too much tension in the embouchure / throat
@@ThomasHaehnlein That sounds about right. I have a tendency to bit down too hard on the mouthpiece, I have been working on not biting down as hard or not bitting at all. Thanks for the suggestion I will check out that video.
I have some notes on my sax which are out of tune all of the time, like the middle E , which is frequently 15 cents or more sharp. I thought it was me but my teacher (who is a professional saxophonist) tried my sax and confirmed it was the sax itself. This is quite frustrating since it is a 3500 CAD saxophone.
Hi Roger, you mean it’s a 3D printed saxophone? That’s interesting, haven’t tried those before. But yeah, it’s of course a big advantage to have an instrument that is pretty much in tune in itself already.
Aah sorry 😂 I was already wondering… That’s a pity, of course at this price it should work fine. Did you let a repairman take a look at the height of the keys? Maybe adjusting the height could improve the intonation at least a bit.
OUT OF TUNE?.. This happens mainly in genres like jazz because they are obsessed with improvisation and the demonstration of virtuosity in digital technique, and they neglect tuning. In other genres it can happen but it is not so common since they are more precise and not as relativistic as jazz.
Hi Cristian, I know what you mean, but wouldn't exclude other genres entirely. To really play in tune, like really nailing every note as I describe it in the video, is a skill you have to develop over a long time in any genre.
Hi Mathieu, yes absolutely. 442 is quite common these days but you can also use 440 (also very common or 443 (not as common). Doesn’t really matter too much in the end because the exercises are more about relative pitch, not absolute
440hz and 442hz are used most often. In regard to the exercises I’m showing in my video it doesn’t matter if you do it with 440hz or 442hz since you’re practicing your relativ pitch. Maybe I’d just suggest to not always only do everything in 440hz, just switch sometimes to 442. Hope that helps!
![Top exercises to improve your intonation feat. Claude Delangle + Tableaux de Provence [SaxTipssimo]](/img/n.gif)
While playing along with the pre-recorded tracks I find that if I can balance, in my ear , the trumpet or saxophone that is playing the melody with my own instrument whether it’s Sax or the flute, and use that Balance as a tool for matching intonation and performance. I find that really concentrating and hearing my sound in balance with the other melody instruments gives me the best way to play in tune on unison melodies.
Hi Robert, that's a great description of not being caught up with your own playing but actively listening to the other instruments :)
Good video, thanks Thomas. Its also a reminder that clarity in a band can be muddied if another instrument is not quite in tune. I've too often put up with a guitarist who has one string slightly out. Its a lose lose situation as I over think my own intonation AND make allowances for the out of tuneness around me. Sloppy tuning doesnt help anyone.
I have a bad intonation. Only in the middle notes i have a good one.
Interesting video Thomas. I think probably the main reason many sax players have intonation problems is that tuning simply isn't emphasised enough in formal musical education, so many players don't give it enough attention. Also people in general accept poor sax tuning as some how part of the sound. If a singer is out of tune, they will hear it immediately, but not a sax.
If anyone recording software with Melodyne pitch correction, it is very interesting to analyse your performance (I'm not suggesting people should autotune their recordings - I just fixed a dodgy top F). You can see pitch blobs and also a continuous line, which is actual frequency over time. This can show vibrato coming in at the end of a note and how accurate your initial transients are.
Thanks for your comment Colin! I'll see if I can check this Melodyne pitch correction :)
Speaking of don't make the same mistake as me - DON'T tune with your eyes! That's actually counterproductive IME. Use a drone or a backing track and use your EARS.
Also don't be too much of a perfectionist - time, tone, phrasing, articulation, harmonic content, melodic shape/logic are all at least as important as intonation. The real key to playing in tune is the same as every other part of playing music - close listening and audiating often enough that you learn to play what you hear on your instrument.
Hi Lukas, I completely get what you mean with not tuning with your eyes, though f.e. in the first exercise I’m showing it is about first using your ears and then correcting your intonation by using a tuner as a reference. So I’d argue for not condemning tuners entirely, it can be a very helpful tool, but the goal should be to develop your ears, not your eyesight ;)
@@ThomasHaehnlein Right on.
Luckily piano players don't have to worry about that and keyboard players don't even have to worry about changing keys.
Did you pass the tuning test? Let me know down here!
Album recommendations for Mark Turner: "Mark Turner", "Dharma Days" and as sideman "The Remedy" Kurt Rosenwinkel Group).
Album recommendations for Chris Potter: "Got the Keys to the Kingdom: Live at the Village Vanguard", "Imaginary Cities" & as a sideman "Lost in a Dream" (Paul Motian)
I am the one thousandths subscriber!!😅. Congratulations dude! Chris Potter, and Mark Turner play together on Jonathan Blake’s album!
Congrats to both of us :D and amazing, I didn’t know the album! Thanks for the suggestion
@@ThomasHaehnlein Johnathon Blake Gone but not forgotten.
Great video! I especially like the triad exercise at the end 🙌
Hey Nick, thanks so much for your comment, I'm honored :) following your channel for years already!
Check out the classical players. Check out the great big band sax sections of the 1920´through to The Count Basie Ghost Band today. The goal is to play in tune with the other instruments in the ensemble you are playing with. Play duets and work on tuning together. Forget using tuners to train your ear. Go play duo with a guitar then play duo with a piano or even more illuminating, a Hammond organ. The most "in tune" instrument to play with is a Vibraphone without the tremolo. Listen to things that are in tune or are played in tune . Play along with symphony orchestras, that is an eye opener! The saxophone is not an "in tune" instrument.
You need to know alternate fingerings an when to use them. If the piano at the gig is out of tune, you have to adjust and make it sound in tune.
Great points bob! Since someone else also commented quite strictly against tuners, I’d just like to argue that it is completely fine to use a tuner to check if your ears are correct (f.e. in the first exercise I’m showing you’re using your ears first and then you check if you’re really right by using a tuner). For someone who didn’t spend much time with practicing intonation yet, it can be too big of a step of only relying on your ears (especially if there’s no teacher around to correct you). But of course the goal is to develop your ears and become independent of a tuner.
@@ThomasHaehnlein Cool Thomas. You have a good point there!
I am not in the 10 %, but I'm working on it.
Other interesting intonation checks...does your 1 finger C match the pitch of the first harmonic of the Low C? How about for B and Bb? It's also a nice cross-check for where the mouthpiece should be to extract the best possible intonation tendencies of your saxophone.
Hi Akitika, interesting point, though I'd be cautious with using the overtones as a reference for the regular fingerings. Usually you do it the other way around, tuning the overtones to the regular fingerings. Overtones can be very wildly out of tune, but of course if you cannot bring overtones and regular fingerings together at all, you might need to change the mouthpiece position as you mentioned.
Coltrane's intonation is out of this world. Can't hear any wrong pitches. Birds is really good as well. but there are some players whose intonation becomes part of the sound like dexter and jackie clean. fela kuti's intonation is way off but he still sounds great
Hi Dan, you have a good point. For some players, not being in tune becomes part of their sound. Also Charles Lloyd is a good example for that. My favorite example is always Warne Marsh playing "You Don't Know What Love Is". He's playing certain notes a bit sharp or a bit flat in the melody which adds a lot of character and emotion.
Is the soprano next to you a Mark 6? That's quite to play in tune, I have to make lot of adjustment with the embrochure with mine. Some notes are really off.
Hi Giovanni, it’s actually a Yanagisawa Elimona, this one plays in tune pretty much perfectly. But I heard that mark vi sopranos can be not great when it comes to intonation
Thank you.
Molto buono. Approvo in pieno. Mi fa'piacere scriverti in italiano per farti sapere che anche in Italia sei conosciuto. Buon lavoro. Ciao
Grazie mille per il tuo commento molto gentile, Andrea, e saluti all'Italia!
Ich feier die Videos! Good Stuff :)
Freut mich Moritz! :)
No I'm definitely not playing in tune. Certain amount of notes I am, but some notes are not in tune. Have trouble with the Db/C#. very aggravating!
Thanks for Video I work on that advise..
Hi Steve, thanks for your comment! Since you mentioned the c#, you might want to check out my video about the mouthpiece exercise, it could help with that. Often a very high c# comes from too much tension in the embouchure / throat
@@ThomasHaehnlein That sounds about right. I have a tendency to bit down too hard on the mouthpiece, I have been working on not biting down as hard or not bitting at all. Thanks for the suggestion I will check out that video.
What tuner app is that? Thanks for the video.
It's called "n-Track Tuner". Thanks for watching!
I have some notes on my sax which are out of tune all of the time, like the middle E , which is frequently 15 cents or more sharp. I thought it was me but my teacher (who is a professional saxophonist) tried my sax and confirmed it was the sax itself. This is quite frustrating since it is a 3500 CAD saxophone.
Hi Roger, you mean it’s a 3D printed saxophone? That’s interesting, haven’t tried those before. But yeah, it’s of course a big advantage to have an instrument that is pretty much in tune in itself already.
@@ThomasHaehnlein No, it is a normal saxophone (a PMauriat system 76). CAD means Canadian dollars….
Aah sorry 😂 I was already wondering… That’s a pity, of course at this price it should work fine. Did you let a repairman take a look at the height of the keys? Maybe adjusting the height could improve the intonation at least a bit.
A new meaning to top G lol
OUT OF TUNE?..
This happens mainly in genres like jazz because they are obsessed with improvisation and the demonstration of virtuosity in digital technique, and they neglect tuning. In other genres it can happen but it is not so common since they are more precise and not as relativistic as jazz.
Hi Cristian, I know what you mean, but wouldn't exclude other genres entirely. To really play in tune, like really nailing every note as I describe it in the video, is a skill you have to develop over a long time in any genre.
Wird es empfohlen, immer mit Afinations-app zu üben?
No, I'd recommend to only use the intonation app at times and then forget about it again when you practice other stuff
@@ThomasHaehnlein Danke!
Hi,
Your tuner is set to 442 Hertz, is it voluntary?
Hi Mathieu, yes absolutely. 442 is quite common these days but you can also use 440 (also very common or 443 (not as common). Doesn’t really matter too much in the end because the exercises are more about relative pitch, not absolute
thank you for your reply :)
What about the claimed, more spiritually resonating 432 Hz prevalent in nature?
Why do you use A442?
440, 442 and 443 are the most common frequencies used. So I just picked one of those for this video
Mark turner& ben wendel..thats it
why is the A4 not in 440?
Hi Gamaliel, 440hz is a very common tuning, but 442hz is very common too (sometimes 443hz is also used)
@@ThomasHaehnlein thank you, but what is most used often?
440hz and 442hz are used most often. In regard to the exercises I’m showing in my video it doesn’t matter if you do it with 440hz or 442hz since you’re practicing your relativ pitch. Maybe I’d just suggest to not always only do everything in 440hz, just switch sometimes to 442. Hope that helps!
🤔 hmmmm nothing new here !