Can 180 BPM Really Be My Zone 2? | GTN Coach's Corner
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- What actually happens in zone 2 ? How does 80-20 training work ? Should I swim bike run in race taper ? Can 180BPM really be my zone 2 ? GTN is here to answer your latest #gtncoachescorner questions and more!
00:00 intro
00:42 How does 80-20 training work ?
03:40 Should I swim bike run in race taper ?
05:54 Training for an ironman
09:31 MTSS
12:50 Can 180BPM really be my zone 2 ?
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180 is for me zone 💀
😂 💀
0 is for me zone💀😉
lol
Ah, thanks for the answer guys! I kinda guessed that some bike and swim sessions during the taper wouldn't hurt so chucked them in leading up to London. For the record, I trained for a target time of 3:30 and crossed the line in 3:26 👍
Fantastic achievement
Congrats🎉
Awesome! Nice one Marcus, keep the questions coming 🙌
That is crazy high for zone 2! Probably the real HR for most of the “zone 2” workouts on Strava 😂
Easy Run 😉
Actually you have pretty clear lactate 'zones', LT1 and LT2, they are quite precise and staying over the LT1 line is kind of like a switch. Above LT1 you will start to rely much more on glucose metabolism and switching that off again by reducing pace takes quite a bit of time, so it's best not to stray over that line at all. Zone 2 for most people is quite a bit below LT1, falling into the trap of pushing zone 2 to the upper end thinking you're getting more benefit is the biggest mistake people make. 70% of MHR is a good place to start if you haven't yet done a lab lactate test.
I feel like James is getting more and more sick of the Zone 2 questions every week hahaha
You can't get sick of zone 2! We love it... should we do a longer episode all about zone 2?
If you do, maybe you could also include how (if) you can keep a decent running form in Zone 2. Feels a bit difficult when your zone 2 is really slow (easy to become a bit "heavy" even if I'm not a particularly heavy person).
For the shin splints guy: tibialis raises & other isolated movements work to strengthen the imbalance of pushing and pulling (tibs vs. calves). Calves are the glamor muscles, but shin splints are your sign that the tibialis are important enough to get training consideration. You may not want to believe it because of the name of his channel, but 'the knees over toes guy' YT channel has transformed my life, as far as strength and mobility are concerned. He coaches pro athletes too...just commit to the strength and mobility exercises you need, and I guarantee it won't be a waste of your time.
My max HR is 216 (RHR
True. After 2 years of training my power for a certain heart rate certainly went up. But when I do a test my LTHR still comes out to be the same as when I started training
To me my max heart rate depends on temperature, on hot weather I can reach up to 212 bpm, but in normal conditions (
Don't get frustrated by running slowly in Zone 2. I was so slow at first I was basically walking, but after much training in Z2, my Z2 pace just keeps getting faster.
My zone 2 pace is decreasing don't know why
Best logical explanation of zone 2,3,4 ive ever heard. Thx, James
Great episode! Sounds like a couple of longer episodes on shin splints and Z2 are in order. It would be interesting to hear specifically about the other zones. Maybe we'll get non-Z2 questions then 😂
For the Q1 person: you can also try a 14-day microcycle (instead of 7d), and a mesocycle composed of 2 or 3 microcycles (instead of 3 or 4) -- then it becomes a lot easier to fit all 3 sports and their varying intensity workouts, instead of trying to cram it all into a 7-day week.
Do you have a high zone 2? let us know in the comments 💬
As for the 180 bpm zone 2 question I would suggest to check if the heart rate monitor works properly.
I had many issues with heart rate monitors in the past. I found out that reson was my t-shirt rubbing on the monitor and creating electrostatic charge that increased my readings. However in my case the reading was fluctuating so I knew something was wrong.
Ok for the zone 2 180bpm question, I had the exact same question for a long time. I ran a half marathon for the first time a while back. While training (and during the race), my heart rate was 180bpm for about 90min and then dropped to 160bpm for the rest of the run. Multiple doctors said that there was nothing to worry about. I had a holter monitor prescribed by my doctor and it matched my watch, so that's not the issue. My resting heart rate is about 70bpm. It really doesn't matter how slow I jog, my heart rate will climb to 180bpm for at least the first hour. I'm not sure if it's fully related, but I ended up getting diagnosed with POTS and EDS. I really never got the answer of is this a normal variation or related to my medical condition, but my doctors' consensus was not to worry about it🤷♀️
My resting heart rate is about 47 beats per minute. And my max heartbeat is about 178 per minute. So I am amazed that some could have a zone 2 at 180. 😳
They can’t
#GTNCoachesCorner Hi guys and congrats Mark! I have a lot of races back to back, my question is regarding how to best approach to recovering from one to the next. I did a 10 Km race two weeks ago, so I had sore legs the next two days. The next week I did three swim sessions two runs (one easy one tempo) and one bike session. Then I did a 16 Km trail race last Friday with a lot of climbing and descending, so sore legs again 😂 . Next Sunday I have another 17 Km trail race and two weeks after that an Olympic distance triathlon. I’m backing down on running and increasing the swim sessions, but do I incorporate some bike as well even if my legs are not 100% recovered?
#coachescorner sorry to ask another zone2 question I know you’ve answered so many already but I don’t think I’ve heard this one and it’s started to become a problem for me. I have been doing a lot of zone 2 runs recently and seeing good progress but as the weather is getting warmer they’re becoming more challenging. I have noticed I am creeping into zone 3 a little more than normal, according to Strava most of my runs before it got hot were around 90-100% zone 2 (for a 60min run) now the temperature has got higher it’s starting to become 80-90% zone2 for the exact same runs I was doing before. I know I need to maybe slow down and get my heart rate down better. But is there a percentage that the runs should be zone 2 when running for an hour or is it okay for it to creep into zone 3 for short periods of time and if so how long is too long?
Im pretty new to running but coming from a walking type career and I find that my heartrate does go pretty far up (179-184) for what I consider very sustainable effort. My aerobic/vascular fitness is what i suspect and since beginning my running journey, I've seen that number drop down to 170-175 over 2 months
I've been cycling for several years and recently added running to my event schedule. I've run three 5k events and now I'm training for my first half marathon in September. I have several training plans for first time half marathon runners. They all involve finding a run/walk balance as I gradually add more and more running. Right now they simply seem too easy (too much walking). I don't want to detrain by going too slow, but I also know I can't currently run a half marathon at my 5k pace. Any tips for finding a good starting point for training? Do I just skip ahead a few weeks in the schedule to a harder run pace? Thank you!
The transition of Mark at 1:34 to 1:35 is interesting. Suddenly he sports a diamond earing (and new glasses).
See for me my HR is really high for me, max HR about 204 and ran my PR half marathon right under 90 kins with an Avg HR OF 193. I do suspect that my zone 2 is 150-163 as i can run conversationally up to 178bpm and right after 180 it starts to get difficult. My lactate threshold per garmin is 188bpm🤷🏽♂️ 180 sounds high for zone 2 but i do feel that😅
I’m actually listening just for the zone 2 inquiry…
I’ve *also* become an excellent nose breather it seems!
The other day though I did notice something while finally after a year and a half doing something slightly different…
Instead of running, super “slow” for me AND easy enough to even have a conversation if available, I decided to walk at almost the same pace as I was slowly trotting along before…
A BRISK WALK for me is the magic spot if I want to train that magical zone 2 area…
My average resting is 60, my super easy extremely slow run is 175 and my brisk walk is about 120…
For many of us who feel great doing “easy” 5k’s, and/or running for 90 minutes even in the real world, nose breathing and all, maybe OUR secret is just *seemingly* childish to have previously considered… Maybe for some of us, many probably, the only deficiency is to *really* correct just the foundational movement even sometimes requiring regression to the walking form itself!!!
AND imagine this just for clarification…
As a kid wanting to discreetly navigate the adult world, can you remember (just as a basic primal feeling example) wanting to get from point A to point B without being caught as the one who broke the vase due to running/playing inside?
Imagine playing tag with friends where sometimes you played with your sibling but having fun shuffling just a bit more quickly without drawing attention… so the adults wouldn’t stop the play… I hope this makes sense to others with this existing foundation!
I’m truly going to at least trust the zone info from now on and will abide at my base levels (probably will even lower my blood pressure considerably!) and I will hope to check back in soon with stronger verification.
Stay tuned!
: )
Okay #gtncoachescorner, the numbers are there to guide me... so let them guide me.
This is yet another z2 question, I hope you never get bored answering.
My Garmin/TP is relying on LTHR (177bpm for running, 169bpm for cycling).
For my easy z2 and long runs, I use MAF training HR of max. 143bpm. Pace is well within z2, but HR is in z1 most of the time - totally fine with me as I believe in Maffeton Training.
Same with the bike: when relying on % of FTP, my power output sits nicely in z2, but my HR is even lower than z1 for quite some time (
I’ve been wondering if there’s a difference between running and cycling heart zones? For me, running with an HR of 175 feels easy, hard would be over 190, and I would max out around 200, but full on cycling my HR doesn’t get much above 170 and easy is more like 140 bpm or less. My guess is that running uses more muscles than cycling, so the lactate is less concentrated in specific muscles, but puts more burden on the cardiovascular system as a whole, but when cycling, muscle strength especially in the thighs is the limiting factor rather than overall cardio fitness. I generally don’t do much high intensity cycling though, so the difference could just be due to the difference in how I work out, but I’m interested if this is obvious and well known already!
#gtncoachescorner
Hi, a question about meals. James is talking a lot about switching from 3 meals a day to pre and post-training meals concept. How did you two (James and Marc) switch back to a normal diet after retirement? I am trained to eat often and it bothers me on rest days/weeks when I am on easy walks with children (as an example) and I still eat a lot and often as a habit. thanks. Tomas
#gtncoachescorner
I done 10 Ironman, the last tin Kona 2023, so a lot Ironman training. This season I will do like the pros 😂, compete in Olympic distance and middle distance (wish T100) , but by different reasons for sure.
I tried to ad more intensity in my training, tempo runs, 5 km , James ladder, bicycle with the men , and use the swimming to push my VO2 , serie like 20x50 hard short rest 10 s . I always done quality workouts on the bike. (My best part)
But I really feel like the week are to short to have space for all quality training and get some z2 training. The question is how do you balance this, when you want to train for get faster in Olympic distance and Middle distance? (15 h/week)
#gtncoachescorner Should recovery between running intervals be a jogging recovery or a full recovery? I’ve always done jogging recoveries. Is that preventing me from getting the full benefit of the next hard interval?
180 could be a cadence lock if it appears running. With that said my HRmax was close to 240 in my teens and RHR 67, HRmaz dropped to 236 in my early 20's. (This runs in the family.)
I would be highly suspect of a cadence lock in this case, but some people do just have super high max HR. Mine was 225 into my 30's. Chest strap HR monitor sounds in order for this runner.
Agree. Cadence lock (if wrist monitor only). I get this regularly. Heart rate will suddenly 'jump' (over one or two minutes) to be similar to pace. Then stay there (roughly following pace) until end of activity. Tried different paces (eg 160 / 170 / 180) - always happens. So now I go by feel rather than watch! (I'm old, and not too fit, so my zone 2 is much lower than all these!)
#gtncouchescorner Do you improve your LT training at any intensity above your LT, or can you only improve this aspect of fitness by training at or just about LT. For many, lab tests/field tests are inaccessible/off putting which means we’re only working with a rough estimate. Without feeling confident I really know my LT, and worrying that it I train too far above LT I won’t see the benefits, I often skip this type of session all together.
Hi! I just ran a half marathon last weekend and I was aiming for a PB. I ran a 1:29 with an average HR of 186 and a high of 199. I wore a Polar H10 hrm. Does this mean my Threshold HR is somewhere between 186 and 190?
#gtncoachescorner
Where in Zone 2 is optimal. Yes, I notice a distinct difference. I’m a triathlete first but grabbed an age group second place in a regional half marathon and then a marathon, recently. I feel the marathon time was not equivalent and I had more fatigue. I focused more on 75% of max hr for the 26.2 vs sub 70% for the first race. Note, I was entirely in 140.6 training mode targeting IM Wisconsin and Kona. Guidance please on where in Z2 best?
#gtncoachescorner After a few months of training I am now able to do my entire semi-long runs (10k) in the middle of my Zone 2. What should be the goal of long runs now - trying to speed up a bit keeping the heart rate the same, or lowering the heart rate even more whilst keeping my 6:30 pace?
Hi. I know you have done a video a few years back on this topic, but how much time would a disc wheel save an average triathlete over 180km in an ironman
I did a trail run earlier this week, running an average 160 heartrate over 5+hours not dropping below 150 for 5 hours straight, yet my zone 2 is definitely not that high. How is it possible that i could run for that long without getting overly tired?
Can I count my dog walks if I walk at a reasonable rate can this count as part of my 80? I suppose it depends on my heart rate zones, my heart rate gets up to about 80 only.
Zone related question: Each zone has about a 10% wide range. Zone training advice is mostly about sticking to a zone. what about within a zone? Are there pros/cons to the low/mid/high parts of a zone?
Depends on the zone, but like they mentioned in the last one, there is a lot of overlap to the zones and they're not hard cutoffs. If you haven't had a lactate / met.cart test done, it's best to skew all errors left -- for example, target the _bottom_ of your Z2 instead of mid or top, to lessen the chance of accidentally spilling over into Tempo.
Not to mention, the 10% zone ranges are a _default_ rule of thumb that is a decent starting point until you figure out your own via trial & error or lab, but is not necessarily true for every person -- everyone's LT1 and LT2 are a different % of their HRmax (or %HRR) - a less fit person may have an LT1 at 55-60% while an elite's could be 75%. YMMV.
I can nose breathe in super threshold workouts..🤣🤣🤣
There definitely an issue with the tools used ... 180bpm for Z2, even if it is upper end, is quite high ...
I mean, for the sake of argument, if you assume 70% of HR reserve, that's could be a profile of 230bpm max HR for a 60bpm RHR ... lower RHR, you'd need a higher max HR ... like 40/250.
Just run slow enough so that you can talk freely or sing a favourite song. Feel your body. You don’t have to stick strictly to the number your smartwatch or chest band. Your heart rate will drop gradually if you stay consistent with your training.
The aerobic IS your recovery AND it enhances it. Benefits of zone 2 can be seen in sessions as short as 75 minutes. I also don't care who you are or your genetics, 180bpm is too high for z2 unless you are like 10 and completely untrained.
guess i have just under a week to think of another zone 2 OR 80/20 question, just for James to entertain us with that slightly "annoyed" look to camera again 🤣🤣🤣
at 180 BPM i would be probably close to dying
Physiology, heart rate isn't even the best measure of zone 2. Lactate monitoring is more accurate. But simply put train hard enough but not too hard do get zone 2 effect.
Per Garmin, 130 BPM is my zone 3. 😂
My heart rate monitor on my watch thinks that my cadence is my heart rate, so it thinks my heart rate on all my runs are at 170-180 heart rate wether it's an easy run or a hard run 😂
180 bpm isn't usual for zone 2. Meth heads have been known for having 180 bpm resting heart rate.
How can 180 be zone 2? That is zone 3 almost 4 for me, I've never seen that as zone 2 ever...
How can you possibly deal with Z2 in a podcast less than 3 hours?
Should we do a longer one?
@@gtn No, that's quite alright :-)
They are saying Biking is low/no impact. My last ride ended in a crash so I must disagree. Luckily the legs were not "impacted"!
I think it's pretty common to underestimate effort especially if you're have to literally walk in Zone 2. And rule of thumb is not to "breath through the nose" but have a "conversational" pace when you can run and talk without getting breathless. My bet is on the HRT in the watch which is rather useless, get a strap.
90 minutes at 180 BPM 😅
Sure, if you are a hummingbird.
I would say no because your zone 5 would be like 220
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