The majority of consumers wont be buying these. Intel lost a good chunk of their market due to pricing. AMD started offering competitive hardware, at a cheaper price, and that's what matters. Jay assumes people are buying Windows 11... 🤣. Windows 11 will be a minority for another 2-3 years.
Nope, the 12900k is barely better at 140w+. I've seen the scores and it proves that power limit to 140w is barely worse compared to non-power limited 205w. Also, Intel runs cooler than Amd at comparable wattage and even if it draws higher power. If you want proof, I can provide that too.
one of the big problems i see going back to team blue, is the consistent changing of the CPU socket standards. its kinda cool to be able to upgrade without an absolute requirement to change the mobo
Tbh, starting with the idea that i don't upgrade more often than necessary, by the time i retire a processor, it's mobo won't be useful anymore. Keep the pcie cards, keep the ssds, maybe keep the ram. Buying into AM4 with Ryzen 5000 means this srtup will be run and put to work and forgotten about the specs until it becomes a liability to not buid something new. By that time, am4 is proper retired... This mostly means that on a given upgrade cycle, sometimes it's worth getting a higher spec cpu, saving a bit of hassle in daily use over a few years, regardless of platform...
@@seven9766 Yeah IMO CPU is something you need to upgrade only once per DDR generation. Like I bought 5820k back in 2015 with DDR4. Now I will buy Zen 4 6900x or 12900k and will run it till DDR6.
If the architecture changed then the socket would probably change too for further optimization, it is just how CPUs work, LGA sockets don't actually change too often unless there is a newer gen with different specs that the previous socket cannot support.
I just finished my first build with an i7-10700kf. Its awesome and I hope I get a solid 5 years before I have to upgrade. The only reason I went Intel over AMD was price. In NZ Ryzen is consistently more expensive than Intel, a 3700x is $50 less than a i9-10900. the 11900 is the same price as the 5800x and the cheapest ryzen 9 is over $850. I want this battle to continue so I can get the price product at the cheapest price.
I’ll wait to see what AMD pulls out of the hat when they launch. Considering I’m never an early adopter of new tech, it will be interesting to watch the next few months play out between AMD and Intel. It’s so exciting!!!
Same here! I'll never be an early adopter of new hardware, which is why I was totally ok with buying a gaming laptop (that needs to last me 5 years) with the latest gen of amd cpu rather than waiting for the new stuff to come out. I'll take the best of this generation and upgrade once the new stuff gets closer to perfection after a few years
The earliest tech I had was from 2018 (3 years out of date) and it died within a year (older AMD 3400g from China). Now I'm back to a 775 socket Intel Core 2 Quad Q9560 great CPU for it's time (launch date was 08?). Does not play modern games so I went back to STEAM retro 32 bit gaming for now.
I think the Amd Ryzen 6000 series processors are on the way. But most Pc builders say that there's no way till 2023. I think it'll be having the Amd AM5 CPU Socket, ddr5 and pcie gen5. Okay, let's wait till the new beasts come out.
yessir 12900 k minimums are low if u watch steves review at gamers nexxus if that doesn't get fixed intel will lose again for sure trying to bring mobile cores into desktop territory sounds like an intel move cheap bastards AMD said they were sticking with regular cores and i must say sounds more appealing as a gamer where minimum fps drops can cause noticeable stuttering in games ehhh try again intel ....
Would be interesting to see an analysis on how DDR5 contributes to the outstanding performance of Alder Lake. I would say that the “KO” Intel dealt to AMD is based on a caveat that DDR5 is helping Intel until we can compare Alder Lake with a DDR5 compatible Zen 4.
Right on. It’s not a pure CPU comparison. It’s cool to see with DDR5 Intel is very fast, but based on my experience RAM speed has a significant effect on synthetic benchmarks.
Already been done on other youtube channels. Some have said DDR 4 Alderlake boards using tight memory timings can actually slightly outperform the ddr5 in a few cases. so difference in ddr 4 and 5 right now in terms of real world speed is barely nothing. By the way this is only the first jab by intel...........the knock out blow will come sometime next year when RAPTOR lake comes out then Meteor Lake Lunar lake and there are others after that.. Intel has plans to slowly up their game using the same 1700 pin socket.
Given how much AMD is RAM timing and latency dependent, I would assume that AMD would actually lose performance on DDR5 which is why I assume they did not originally intend to bring it to AM5s first chipset. It will take 2-3 gen DDR5 to get the timings under control as it was back with DDR4 at which point AMD would probably go head to head in this particular case. But for now being forced to support DDR5 just for marketing, they might have caused themself some problems at least on the market reaction side from people that have not the deep hardware understanding to grasp how future DDR5 generations can change the reality in favor of AMD no matter what the initial situation was.
Checkout hardware unboxed's review that compares ddr 4 with 5. Spoiler: The performance uplift isn't much to write home about in most cases and in some apps DDR 4 is better.
Good to see some competition in the CPU market. We all know that when a single company dominates any market, both prices and policies get out of hand. And the consumers can't do much because there is no alternative product they can buy instead (at least one that performs the same as the dominant one).
@@deminybs Calling a 5800X "peasant" can only be described as "heights of sarcasm" (I know you are saying that in comparison to the Alder Lake CPUs but I feel that's over exaggerated especially when I compare it to my own setup). Look at me, I'm still running a R5 3600 and a GTX 1660 super. 😅😔 Can't wait for the silicon shortage to end so I can finally upgrade.
It's not like the 5900X suddenly became bad lol. I use the R9 5900X myself and I love it. It's great to see some competition from both sides. Makes things more interesting, and also gives you more options to choose from if both products being compared are good enough. This is great news for anyone who loves tech stuff :D
Same here, Intel did a good job on their performance but I'm curious what AMD will bring next. Though for me, I probably will wait till the next generation to release. Hopefully with pricing becoming a bit better for their Motherboards and DDR5.
5800X here, We both are very well settled for many years to come. But its indeed exciting to see the competition flying now. Our next cpu upgrade will be much better!
oh i am totally happy wit my 5900X, its a beast and i will have it for several years before i think of uprading. but even as AMD fan i say job well done Intel. in the end this competition will benefit us all
I'm happy with my systems. I decommissioned my 8 yr old i7 3770k in my LAN PC with a new system with a B550i motherboard with Ryzen 5600X - such a great upgrade. My i7 8700K system had a weird power short that damaged everything so I replaced it with a Ryzen 5900X. These were my first AMD chips in a while and I've been very pleased. I don't plan on upgrading CPUs anytime in the next few years.
Same... at least till the pandemic/shortage issues resolve or subside... I got myself a Zen 2 CPU Ryzen 7 2700X, 16GBx2 3200Mhz RAM, Gigabyte B450 Gaming MOBO with a RX6600XT... It's not the top of the line BUT with the budget I got, This will serve me well enough for years to come... I consider myself lucky to even got this setup with all the pricing bat shits all over the place... Cheers!! PS: 650watts PSU is more than enough for this rig...
@Casual Scum I wouldn't call it obsolete. It's just becoming more of a midrange pc. I have a Zen 2 2700x CPU with a 5700xt GPU and I think I'll give it another year or two. (Probably max 2) I built mine around the same time as you.
Same, replaced my 3570k + 32GB of 1600 with a 5800x + 64GB of 3600 and got a good deal including the CPU being 20% off. Can't complain. Just need a better GPU for that G2 headset... 1080 is kinda tight fit for that.
gamer's nexus believes a lot of this lead is the DDR5. If that's true and AMD releases DDR5 next, then it's possible they'll take back the performance again. And I've already seen it's neck and neck with the 5950x, but uses far more electricity.
Agreed AM5 with 3d cash and 5nm well have to see what happens the whispers in the grape vines is 1st gen of AM5 25% to 35% IPC gain and that's coming in a few of months so I'm eagerly waiting to see when the next hammer drops. and like Ryzen maturing Intel 2nd gen of this new arcetextur will hopefully throw down again.
They are for awhile at least. Intel is bringing out 13th & 14th gen all within 18 months w/ massive IPC improvements & core counts. AMD is in trouble if Zen 4 is all they are releasing early 2023.
@@ThaexakaMavro Absolut exaggeration, indeed. And the numbers are way more one sided for intel if i compare it to GN, HU, PH and LTT. In my area the 5950X would have been way more suited for comparison regarding pricing: 5900X=520€ 12900K=650€ 5950X=720€
I cant wait for a true comparison when amd releases their DDR5 enabled processors , Jay talks of cost difference of the 5950x vs the 12900k which i believe would be more of a proper cost to comparison when you add the cost of new motherboard and ddr5. I would love to see the 12900k vs the 5900x on a intel 12thgen DDR4 motherboard.
@@damian02161986 because you can not use a cpu without those. so looking at the complete system can make sense. if you already have the plattform, sure, disregard it, else it is a factor one should at least consider.
@@damian02161986 it’s a cope because intel is on top again. People just cant be happy that theres competition again and still resort to fanboyism. I use Ryzen atm so no Im not an intel fanboy.
@@MrLemmiwinks91 Nothing to do with being a FAN I am like Jay I buy the best on the market when I upgrade Intel, Nvidia, AMD who cares the ones that best is the one I get. But I agree as long the intel runs on DDR5 and PCI gen 5 vs DDR4 and PCI gen 4 for the AMD the AMD sits as a disadvantage meaning we don't actually know how much better the Intel actually is until we make the ram and PCI the same in some way, But I look forward to more competition.
Hardware unboxed did their review with both ddr4 3200 and ddr5 6000. The performance is basically the same even with high end ddr5. some applications do benefit from ddr5 though
Oddly, I trust AMD to do a couple things: 1) provide, with board partners, a more affordable and upgradable platform, and 2) that they will continue to innovate while keeping the overall power draw down. I prefer ITX builds so knowing that I have a capable CPU that doesn't require an AIO or water cooling is a plus.
@@Thescrubshow That motherboard must be pretty bad. ITX by any chance? DDR5 RAM will be at least £100+ for 16 GB New PSU's (1200w plat's anyway) are like £250. AIO's or custom water loops cost £150-£250. Plus the CPU, £500. That's almost a £1000 (not including a decent mobo, which is at least £200) upgrade for, let's be real, not a massive boost in performance. It's not worth it. Not until DDR5 is a regular option and cheaper, or the 12th gens get more refined for cooling and power usage. Couldn't be further from a KO if it tried.
I built a 5600x system last January, so not going to upgrade to Intel any time soon. If AMD delivers a new cpu for the X570 boards that will be there best option for current users.
Sticking with AMD. I think they've been on a great path with the recent gens and I'm excited to see what they do with their next release. I don't think they're sweating this Intel release at all, more so I think Intel is trying to keep up in an attempt to leapfrog past AMD's chips, which could potentially fall short every time until AMD trips over their own choices/success and allows Intel to make a significant move past them.
Jay mentioned that he's keeping Intel to the out of box settings and is running a 360 rad with 100% fans. I don't know yet what other reviewers were running, but it will be interesting to see how that compares.
@@ericepperson8409 linus did the same with an nhd15 and it was in the 90 stock. it is indeed a furnance if u need a 360 rad only to keep it under 80 in heavy load
@@chriswright8074 no its not. my 8 year old intel cpu was going 95C every day for 7 years and still works fine... 70 is good on full performance. idle under 20 is amazing as well.
This is why I love this channel! It's a more balanced review by far. I really don't want to upgrade to Windows 11. I don't want to sink huge money into a first Gen iteration of power+efficiency cores, DDR5 or Gen-5 PCI-e on a motherboard that I doubt I'd keep by the time graphics cards require that bandwidth. It took freaking years for software, namely games, to use multiple cores back in the Core2Quad days and AMD really kicked that into overdrive in the last few years, which I'm grateful for, but it'll take a few iterations before we see how well developers manage tasks on different types of cores, especially when AMD is still using all-power cores in comparison. Honestly it's about price. I've only had Intel all my life, but if I had to buy a new system now I'd rather go with the 5900X which will come down in price, their motherboard is cheaper and DDR4 RAM is significantly cheaper as well. Not to mention lower power draw if you're hitting all the cores. Competition breeds innovation however, so I'm glad the 14nm to infinity and beyond era is over.
Small performance increase over processors already a year old for 2x the power consumption according to Gamerz Nexus review, I wouldn't call that a KO. I would call it a future proof win for consumers tho, cause now these two Companies have keep innovating to one up each other, which is a big win for us the customers, no matter what side you choose.
no body gives a rats ass about the TPW because if you are pushing these chips, you have the money... and the chances are, you are pushing a 2060 or a 30 series NVidia at least.
@@jkutnink87 I think a lot of people myself included would still prefer air cooling and when there is a 5950 that nearly uses half as much power and gets nearly the performance in heavy workload I would rather take that.
I saw an article that shows the intel has significantly higher power consumption as well when pushed. It was slightly faster than the 5950 in some tasks but also drew another 100W more for the small gain..
Actually, it is worse than that. They said it is 30% faster than the 5950x, but it was also consuming 240% more power. Furthermore, they specifically used a version of windows where the Ryzen cache performance had NOT been patched yet, essentially hamstringing the Ryzen. I'm really surprised to see Jay make this video, because it is fully bullshit. Intel's comparison was patently dishonest, and even main stream outlets called it out immediately. It's also an almost $670 MSRP, vs the 5950s inflated $750 MSRP. So, it's probably 15% faster on patched windows, uses more than TWICE as much power, costs almost as much, and you'll need to buy a significantly more expensive motherboard to boot. I'm all set on Intel, thanks.
I'm similar to you Jay. I follow wherever the performance goes. If I were looking at upgrading soon. I would probably wait to see what the next gen for AMD is at in terms of performance and then make my decision on what to get.
Similar, but more the bang for the buck lane here. Had lots of AMD+ATi combos in the past, but before going 5800x I had Intel+nVidia and that 1080 still is in my current setup. Well, about 15-20 years ago there was a trend to avoid TCPA which basically had you ending up on Team Red&Red for quite a while regardless.
Me too, but I lean towards Intel/nvidia, because every time a switch, stability becomes a problem. Hell, I run a i7 6700k for years without overclocking it. When I reboot my current system (Ryzen 5 3600), I have a 50/50 chance the system locks up during POST.
Great to see Intel finally back in shape but the title should have been: "1 gen newer Intel delivered a KO to 1 gen older Ryzen". Alder lake is supposed to compete with Zen 4.
Intel has only catches up with AMD. It has YET to beat AMD. It is considered beaten IF Intel can come up with a product that performs on par, or better than AMD's latest product released AFTER that of Intel's product.
@@triparadox.c Well, Intel's Rocket Lake came out after Zen 3 and was supposed to compete with current Ryzen but still completely failed. I can understand every benchmark compare them with Ryzen 5000 since last gen Intel were so bad but that only says how good Zen 3 was to compete on par with 2 generation from Intel.
@@triparadox.c says who? the best product, either in price/performance, or performance alone is the winner. you sound like a amd fanboy but you should just choose the best product at the time you need a new build. a year ago i would build amd, today i would build intel. intel didnt just catch up with amd now, they beat them, and for a lower price!
@@FordSierraIS "you sound like a amd fanboy" I've never owned a single AMD chipset in my entire life. Not my laptops, not my desktops. I've even had an intel powered smartphone (Asus Zenfone 2)
So right! This can only be good as it should get AMD to drop there prices to something a bit more sensible...I did not expect AMD to charge so much but once success came they cashed in...Needed Intel to start competing!
No plans on spending stupid money to try and upgrade to a new untested platform made of unobtainium. Not for AMD not for Intel. Especially not to watch it running at 20% usage with my GPU running at 100%.
@Duk3 for me, owning an x570 using a 3600, my next upgrade will be a 5600x. If I could justify the price for a new mobo, cpu and ram, I would 100% go intel 12th gen. I don't understand fanboys either
As a 54 yr old gamer, unemployed since Covid2019, fixed income, trying to survive on a self built 2011 FX-8370 system. I really hope this helps bring costs down so us running way-back machines can finally get closer to some kind of current build. Life has been pretty rough, and using gaming as an out or perhaps a streaming income gets harder and harder each day we get older.
@@Havok412 In the end it depends if you're building from scratch or have a B400 or 500 board. So if you're upgrading from something like a Ryzen 2600 to 5600X you likely don't need to change motherboards. But going for a 12600K adds the price of a new motherboard to the mix. But if you're building a new PC from scratch and need the fastest CPU possible then Intel is the objectively correct choice at the moment. At least until AMD musters some kind of response to it.
12600k just murdered AMD mainstream lineup. It's over. I still had to get the 12900k though cuz I'm a snob. That 12600k though. What happens to the 5800x now? Over 100$ more and worse in gaming? Good luck w that Lisa Su. LOL
Going with boxing references, they more knocked AMD on their back. AMD can definitely get back up and counter with their upcoming lineup, but honestly this is the best Intel has done in ages, so if I wanted to give an analogy for it, it'd be something like: AMD KO'd Intel last match, but upon rematching, Intel showed that they did some training. Silly analogies aside, let's just hope the competition stays a competition this time.
@@TrxPsyche how does AMD handle the 12600k? To continue the boxing analogy, the 12600k is like if a prime Mike Tyson was fighting against guys in lower weight classes. Under 300$.. 12600k is the chip AMD has always dreamed of. Game Over. I had to get the 12900k this morning cuz that's me, but how does AMD respond to 12600? The 5800x looks silly now.
With this being a hybrid I can only imagine the odd issues that will occur post launch. I don't play to build another machine for another 2 years so let the 13xxx and 14xxx release and by that time stuff will probably stabilize.
In a way this is Intel’s Ryzen 1000 series. They have alot of things to resolve from drivers, to Windows 11 to new DDR5 to PCIe gen 5, so many new things that there are definitely oddities here and there. However just like AMD’s Ryzen 3000 is actually very recommendable and stable, the real test will be on their 13xxx or 14xxx for Intel. The main takeaway is that, despite all that, Intel 12xxx does claim the top spot again, so its already better start compared to Ryzen 1000. Despite AMD chipping away, Intel is still quite dominant in things like, what stock mounting the cooler comes from so AMD probably will need to play the value card again now.
Yup I'm siting pretty with 3900X on a ROG Strix X570-E Gaming with 64gb corsair 3200 Vengeance RGB ram I got another 3 years maybe more before I feel the need to start upgrading. I can only imagine what that's hardware is going to be like. Hopefully we have a new president that cares about people working and gets are economy pumping again and cost are not mega over inflated..
LOL, at the rate things are going now, the 14900k (and any AMD equivalent) will probably cost $2k for the chip alone! The high end PC gaming industry is slowly starting to price itself out of existence! :(
@@SuperGokuSon Tbh, most of the time you will need your GPU upgraded first before you ever need the CPU so even as the AMD vs Intel fight it out, you don't NEED to upgrade it right now. You will also need to be playing newer games, and probably upgrading to 4K or something to take advantage of the extra GPU power. I'm on 3600x and 2070 Super, so probably will only check on it when 4000 or 5000 series dropping in.... which is probably in like 2 or 3 years at the rate thing is going. But aside from that, this is probably exciting time for tech journalist since now they have alot of things to test, and makes worthwhile content out of. Its also a better-than-expected start for Intel, since they don't even need to play the Value card too for a literal start of new generation.
@@ArchusKanzaki I know people that still Rock 780s and are totally content with it at 1080p or even 1440p youre fine with your 2000 cards I have an rx6800 and its Total overkill for pretty much anything I do... best and worst upgrade I ever made
I feel like people are missing the fact that this comparison is with a product that's been out for more than a year. And its successor is right around the corner.
Wanna just comment and say I am sorry about the way I responded to not winning. I acted like an entitled dork. I didn't deserve to win anything with the attitude I had and the attitude I had is probably the reason karma blew up my 1080 and I am stuck with my cursed 770. Regardless... Please consider removing those retweets because I am getting a bunch of targeted harassment from trolls and a lot of hate messages from people I don't even know telling me to go die because I was upset, unfortunately inebriated and made a mistake like all humans do just this one was on a social media platform where my mistake was retweeted a few hundred times and then I got dog piled on by a bunch of people who took it way too far. Not saying I didn't deserve to be dunked on a little bit because, well, I was acting like a damn fool but at the same time man you have the power to just make some of it go away but by having those tweets up it really kinda sucks for me because anyone who sees that may be inclined to send me some hate mail like others have. I don't hate your channel I never did and I do apologize for my behavior but you could have just ignored me and let it go but yeah... is what it is... I wont be entering the next contest or probably any after because I now feel like I don't deserve to try to enter or win anything because of my behavior but it would be nice if you could just undo the retweet so I can stop getting death threats and told to go commit suicide by total strangers, thanks. And good luck to all in JayzGiving and all future contests, may your GPU's and whatever other hardware you may win serve you well and for many years. Sincerely... :( Real King Kosher
you sound genuinely sorry, i am also sorry for joining in on it and making fun of you, i should remember that everyone has a struggle and maybe people act how they do because of it
Considering how much power 12th gen uses, the performance gains are pretty linear. Alder Lake basically has no headroom, it's running close to redline all the time.
What was the power draw during the tests tho? AMD 5900X rated at 105W stock while the 12900K rated at 241W stock. So what was it hitting when overclocked? Over 300W would be my guess. I have a 5600X which is 65W but overclocked I see 92W draw during benchmarks.
Intel is doing the same trick Nvidea is doing : We need more speed so just increase the power draw. But it is faster and I think this because they increased the l3 cache and they have faster clock speeds. It is a valid victory for Intel just with a big *.
The testing on windows 11 will show just how much a Windows has worked with Intel directly compared to AMD to make sure that their product runs seemlessly. This is likely to push push a cheaper price for windows to use Intel CPU's to help keep the majority of market share. Also all amd needs to do is lower their prices.
Um, if you haven't noticed Nvidia, AMD and Intel doesn't control the pricing... The stores do.... By the way, what did you expect Intel to do; launch like the 2xxx and 3xxx processors did a few years ago, without bio's even able to boot to desktop?
13:50 "The Temperatures were extremely reasonable." - using 360 / three fan AIO cooler. "It's not that hot!" says guy in 50 foot by 120 foot massive room. Not a single note on power consumption. How many other people here have to run their rig in a small confined area? Down-voted.
I feel like the DDR5 made some sort of impact and while it says all stock i'm curious if PBO was disabled? It's weird cause your 5900x scores for cinebench are 10-20% lower than most averages you see posted online..
It's great to see Intel truly moving forward for the first time in a long time. But comparing a nex-gen processor (DDR5 and up to 330W power draw) to it's current-gen competitor (DDR4, 142W power draw) isn't exactly fair...I would have liked to see 11900K and/or 10900k in the charts as well to compare Intel vs Intel. A lot of speculation is also based on "is it the DDR5 boost?" and so running a 12900k on say an ASRock Z690 Steel Legend or MSI PRO Z690-A will help show what kind of performance gain the DDR5 has directly on the metrics. So if you do this again when AMD comes out with the 3d V-cache models, can you add those metrics as well? I'm also leery that the core scheduler in Win11 is one Windows update away from catastrophe, see Win11 vs AMD, but that's a different story.
Smells like fanboys failing to understand that there needs to be competition since both AMD and intel need each other for that to happen so I’d be happy with either tbh
finally this is the time we have been waiting for the real competition between two. Cant wait to see what AMD will bring in the near future and the further reply from intel as well!!
@@danhex Don't be silly , intel have another 5 generations planned already and they are working on them. Alderlake is only the START of the socket 1700 series. Intel said that once and AMD beat them for around 4 years ,intel came back and thrashed AMD (core series onwards) and then AMD came back with Ryzen. Speaking as someone who was a UK OC champ 2006 (A-BIT) and 2nd place 2010 (Gigabyte), you are acting like an immature fan boy! If you knew the industry then the rule of thumb is that over a 5 year span (on average) one company tops another and then the cycle repeats. Now a REASONABLE attitude would be 'its good to see competition from Intel again and to REALLY make the market interesting is a third company to start producing chips. These amd-nvidia intel-amd wars are for silly people who are YOUNG in the industry.
Built my new PC a few weeks ago. Went from a 2500k to an 83500 for years to a 3600x to now a 12700k. MASSIVE boost in gaming with my new 3080 Ti. Went from 60-70fps in battlefield with 50-60% GPU utilization to a locked 144fps with 90-95% GPU utilization. Alder Lake is a true next gen leap, and I hope AMD makes another leap so we can see the competition keep going.
Show us a true price comparison of ADL versus Zen 3, including motherboard and RAM. Sick of seeing that the 12600K is a "great value" when the boards and RAM make it 30-40% more expensive than even a 5800X based system.
I’m kind of hesitant to get 12th gen cpus because of those software incompatibility issues. I would like to see more tests done on which applications and old games won’t work with these cpus
P core and E core could be an interesting design going forward, low power cores for all the small stuff. things like steam, icue, etc if the scheduler works right would be thrown at the E Cores.
Yea like MsBroslo said already, this isn't a new concept and the fact that the power usage is around 250Watts already is pretty bad. The Ryzen 5950x already performs better overall performance for 1/3 the wattage. I know people don't care enough about wattage but things are surely changing where power usage is getting more expensive and might actually change the usage of such computers. Also, this setup isn't really great for servers and multiprocessor systems where they require multiple cores at a solid power efficiency as multiple CPU's with 3x the wattage vs a system that performs similarly at 1/3 the wattage would be highly costly.
@@rudysal1429 more wattage means more power consumption that means more energy consumption, that directly affects the environment too. All those energy plants are mostly running on fossil fuels.
@@rudysal1429 you're right, it's mostly wasted power (ok, the heat can be used when it's cold outside). On top, you'll need better cooling, which also consumes more power and makes the system (in many cases) also louder.
You said that this was a price comparison. But I would like to see the total price of the system you have for both setups. My (limited) understanding is that the 12900k needs more expensive RAM, Motherboard and PSU. Correct?
The power supply will be fine as a rule. I normally go with a 1000 to 1200 watt power supply anyway. From what I have seen from some of the reviewers is that you would need a good to high end cooler to keep it cool. But time will tell on that. The high heat loads alot of the reviewers was seeing maybe early Bios problems. That is one more reason not to jump till all the major bugs are worked out.
Why would you limit yourself to 3200 Mhz ram with the AMD system? That 5900X can handle higher clocked RAM. Those scores are sick though. I don't think it would have made up much ground.
I doubt it would have changed the results much but... The DDR5 that was used was overclocked. Intel specifies 4800 not 5200 on its product page. So these benchmarks were completed out of spec. The Ryzen 5900x should have had DDR4 3600 NOT 3200 to be overclocked too. Again, I doubt it'd have made a real difference but Jay's tests are invalid as it wasn't stock vs stock.
I'm confused, if you're doing an "AI OC" version of the 12900k, why are you not doing a memory OCed version of the 5900X? It's not hard to drop in a 3600 kit, and set the fclck to 1800.
Because he's not honest. Look when he says "80 degrees on a 360 AIO". He's barely able to keep composure. Then he goes on to say that Intel is not that "power hungry + hot" anymore. I'd like to see a power consumption chart between the two... I am not saying the CPU isn't good, I am just saying that AMD has to not only deliver a good product but fight against the benchmark manipulations and fanboyism.
@@mikegleasonjr I don't think Jay is being malicious, but I do think this is an oversight that needs to be addressed since the only practical overclocking, on Zen, is through basic memory settings (and it's not a complex setting to do). In part, I also believe whatever Zen 3 successor will see a good degree of a performance boost due to it's reliance on memory (and the natural boost on speed). Moving up to DDR5, especially with it's dual buffer pipeline approach, is going to be interesting.
Thats because anything more than 3200 would be considered an overclock for AMD cpu. He wasted to keep it as stock as possible. But I'm not really sure why he went with a 5200mhz even though Intel's website lists 4800 as supported frequency. Maybe because they were just hard to find.. idk
Just a note, I've now watched multiple reviews and when running my own tests on the 5900X(with all background tasks enabled and while mining) I get around 25% more performance on average. My system is under water with a custom loop, and I am running 3600/CL16 ram, but this shouldn't make that much of a difference. It irks me as all reviews have the same delta, maybe the increased memory speed, and custom loop are pushing the system way harder then what people used to do the benchmarks(some things I didn't see is the CAS latency and motherboard used for the AMD comparison rig). Anyway, just a side note, it's good for all of us that AL has impressive performance, keeps pricing in check and spurs innovation.
The world: "Intel - please stop capping peak power and nerfing performance in favor of segmenting your chip markets." Pre Ryzen Intel: "No! We do what we want, not what you want. Profit rules baby!" Post Ryzen Intel (may fails and discounted silcon later): "Hey, we have this new Hybrid architecture that can beat Ryzen. We say it's from new architecture but it's really because we secretly stopped nerfing our performance cores."
Obviously I’m sticking to AMD since I bought my 5800x not long ago but even if I hadn’t I still would stay AMD just due to the price alone of going to z690 + ddr5. The bang for buck still seems to be Ryzen for now until ddr5 and those mobos drop in price.
Not completely true, we dont know yet. But combining the reviews of Linus and Hardware unboxed, the 12600k with ddr4 might be insane value. ddr5 offers very little in their ddr4 vs ddr5 comparison.
I wonder how much of that improvement was due to DDR5 over DDR4. As it's been stated, Ryzen, especially Ryzen 2nd Gen, performs better with faster ram (sweet spot is still ~3600MHz, I believe). Looking forward to the next Ryzen surprise, especially if it goes with DDR5.
I just finished my first build with an i7-10700kf. Its awesome and I hope I get a solid 5 years before I have to upgrade. The only reason I went Intel over AMD was price. In NZ Ryzen is consistently more expensive than Intel, a 3700x is $50 less than a i9-10900. the 11900 is the same price as the 5800x and the cheapest ryzen 9 is over $850. I want this battle to continue so I can get the price product at the cheapest price.
Was just about to build an 11th gen rig. I am so happy I decided to go to Microcenter and return my MOBO, RAM and CPU. It was only $100 dollars more to upgrade to Alder Lake and DDR5 RAM. I got the last 16 GB's that Microcenter Denver had.
The big little design will cause all kinds of incompatibility problems with many legacy x86 programs. It's bullshit and not worth it for desktops. For low power ARM is the way to go.
@@Skyline_NTR I don't recall- Wendell also just talked about it in his L1Linux 12900k video - he basically said "It doesn't work very well yet" which is about the gist of any threads Ive seen on the topic.
Every VM would have to have code to detect hybrid architecture and block usage to certain cores, and so far that's not happening yet. Honestly, if you're looking to do VM stuff, just stick to a traditional CPU, especially AMD or 11th Gen Intel.
Good to see Intel finally get there preformance back from amd, however I am still sticking around with team red as ddr5 memory is way to expensive and I don't feel like changing my entire system to go team blue. Therefor amd currently is my preferred company and can't wait to see what amd does next to get the crown back! Good work Intel though.
@@utahr4ptor75 intel procesors now are heat for winter and in workload with a litle bit of overclockes can consume 300 w & 400 w of power and is stupid . Ddr5 on new generation of amd will much more good performance .
@@AndreiSMRsarmale ah Ok, did see something about that but wasn't 100% sure if it was true as it was a leaked benchmark. And I don't trust it until it releases.
As someone who has a 3 to 5 year upgrade cycle, I'll wait for team red's answer and DDR 5 prices to get better. Nevertheless, it is good to see a competitive Intel.
Great video! I'm curious to see how these CPUs will perform with Intel GPUs on Windows 10 and 11. I think the number of variables that are going to be available soon, we may need to change the way we are making decisions about CPU and GPU combos.
Important to consider when going by price comparison that Linus brought up: yeah, the processors themselves may be in competing price brackets, but you also have to factor in the much higher cost of motherboards to even use said CPU and DDR5 RAM to fully utilize it's power. Getting a motherboard for the 12000 series will cost you about $150-200 more than a mid range Ryzen board.
Great video! Right now, if AMD keep up with the great quality performance and prices, I have no intention to go back to Intel. I gave up Intel for now. I'm on a Ryzen 3700X and I am very happy with it. Last time I had an AMD was back in 1995 and they were awful in terms of heat but still was a great CPU. I also had Cyrix and IBM 6x86MX - Those were great at the time. Maybe I'll switch to a Ryzen 5950X, who knows?
Intel has been beating ryzen in the budget market since 9th gen, 10th gen and 11th gen, can't wait to see how much 12th gen i5 budget cards beat 5600x again 😂
@@Ryan-re1rs Am5 and DDR5 for AMD is not until at least mid to late 2022. Soon however, we will get the 6000 series, no doubt it will match or pass Intels 12th gen.
@@Ryan-re1rs there is a reason to hype it up. The performance is excellent. Whenever amd puts out their new stuff if it's better then we can hype that then meteor lake will come out with a jump again and that will get hyped.... see how that works. Nothing but the best no matter the company. I have a shitload of motherboards laying around and most I've sold. I upgrade at every launch if it's better than the last no matter the company
It's great to see more innovation. But, as far as gaming goes, we need some real innovation from the programmers to create engines that use multi threading and multi gpu. It's sad that most games use just one thread for the game and one other for sound. So much untapped power sitting in PCs from even 5 years ago. But, there really isn't any motivation to change for the game companies.
Fabulous! Intel just out-inovated the whole industry with it`s concept of having high power cores for performance and high efficency low power cores for mundane tasks, giving it insane performance figures whilst having just laughably low energy consumption. Oh wait.....
@@robertlee6338 I am very aware of that and referring to the capability of the arm archtecture to allow different types of cores within the same package. Nonetheless even you can't deny, that the Apple Silicones performance/watt is better than anything that Intel throws on the comsumer market. Amd although this most recent iteration is finallly a step into the right direction and the performance is quite impressive, Intel once more forces this performance gain with power consumption.
@Sut Nack You are what I call a rare sighting of an Intel fanboy. You been in hiding the past 4 years? Where you been? I bet you’re real sore from everyone laughing at Intel. What was it like to support the much larger, richer company who was losing to a much smaller, poorer company? I can feel the embarrassment.
Given the insane cost of (unobtainable) DDR5 RAM, I'd like to see a similar comparison using a DDR4-based motherboard. This is the route that a LOT of people are likely to use to go 12th Gen. In a couple of years when DDR5 prices become reasonable, there's another performance boost for a few hundred dollars.
It is not just the pricing though. Just like the DDR3 to DDR4 switch the speeds of 3 at the time were far higher than those offered on 4. The same is true for the speeds of 4 right now compared to those of 5. The only thing 5 offers over 4 right now is lower voltages. If you are someone like Jay who understands timings and clocks etc of RAM than mb 5 makes sense since you could manually overclock the speeds up.
So I'll need the Starkiller base technology of harnessing the power of the nearest star in order to power the 12900k for minimal performance increase? As for me, I just switched to team red this generation. Intel had their chance with me and it'll be a while before i consider going back.
@Casual Scum Haha yeah, I just bought a 10600k about 2 months ago and I’m happy with it, regardless of new hardware. Just have to keep everything in perspective, you don’t NEED the newest hardware. Heck, no game I’ve played yet has even used more than 50% of my CPU and I’m running a 3060 gpu.
I went Team Red 3900x last year. A month later the 3900XT was released and 5900X shortly after. That was annoying but my philosophy is that you buy a new computer when you need one. And I needed one (self employed). Will be watching Team Blue vs Red pan out and see who is winning when i feel the need for a new machine. Definitely don't think it is worth an unforced upgrade right now.
And it's not like the older FX CPU argument of "futureproof" because like... it's literally fast enough to keep up with pretty much all but the absolute fastest GPUs anyways, so who really cares?
I wonder how viable this could would be as a video encoder on its own in something like a stream PC setup or dual system chassis. Being able to switch between energy efficiency and performance on a hardware level could be interesting for quality of life.
@@daniellundberg2875 a little harder to get a gpu and a cpu in tandem these days, and if this is a more energy efficient solution without sacrificing quality so that you don't have to offload that kind of overhead onto your gpu, then it could be a decent option for mid range streamers with older cards.
Impressive performance Intel shows off. Last year at the start of the COVID-19 shutdown, I used the time to build my new desktop around AMD 3800X and I will stick to this build. On one hand, I confess being more of an AMD minded guy. On the other hand, I'm completely satisfied with the performance of my current build.
I'll keep my 5900X for now, I have it running fine in my mini itx case. From what I've read Intel's chip seems to get a bit too toasty for the coolers you can fit in a tiny case. Anyway, great to see an Intel comeback! Hope they do the same with the "alchemist" graphics cards, because that market is in a much worse shape.
I dont there is any reason to change from 5900 (current gen ) to the Intel offering unless the difference is huge, and difference isnt that much at this time. I prefer to make use of the parts for as much as possible based on if it is still functioning well for my needs. :)
I bought a R7 5800x right after watching this review… the performance improvements aren’t THAT impressive compared to zen 3, and DDR5 is HELLA expensive. Also, my current motherboard supports the 5800x so it’s just a matter of swapping CPUs. Thank you everyone in the UA-cam tech community for helping me make a decision.
We're doing leap frog here. I'm pretty sure AMD will come up with something competitive in the next couple of months. Comptetition is good for us, the consumer. At this point it's more who you want to support and which company fits your value. I'm sticking to AMD as Intel disappointed me lately.
They are beating a yr old processor. AMD has something in the pipe to answer Intel. This is reminiscent of how Intel did things when AMD was dropping launches that would edge/beat Intel, then a few weeks later Intel would answer and crush their hopes and dreams. If AMD doesnt, good on Intel, but this is looking like 2012 all over again lol.
@@jeffb7244 the last AMD I’ve had besides my 5950x, was an athlon 64. As soon as Intel launched their Conroe based core 2 quad. I’ve been on intel until 6700k. Now I’m back to AMD since last year, running my 6700k for 5 years. The funny thing is immediately I noticed a few things: games require a bit more finessing to get them run stably without any overclock in their shipped condition. Random crashes - not a big deal since this happens once every month or so. It’s when I try to wake my PC from sleep, it doesn’t. I have to hard reset the system. Besides Microsoft office, and ESET, and adobe, I don’t run any browser extensions or anything else to slow my PC down. It’s pretty much a clean PC, and my old Intel system is still rock solid, doesn’t require any finessing. However, I can’t have the same VM’s on my Intel based system as my AMD.
Right? All these click baity titles from reviewers like "ooOooOohhh wowww this DDR5/1 YEAR NEWER/HIGHER TDP IS SOOOOoooOoO much better" Like yeah, no shit?
@@samgao i have a 2600x, installed parts, threw windows 10, set it up right the first time, no issues. /shrug I came from a 5930x. Previous to that was a 760 and 2600k in this generational section of Intel's processors. Prior to when the icore series dropped after running a 4600+ and suffered thru a Prescott build, and was AMD before that(Athlon series), and was running Intel prior to AMD's K6-2 days. I"m a best available for what i need/using it for. After seeing this, and the Gamers Nexus vid on it, I'm waiting to see how AMD responds to it.
>Double power usage for 15% more performance > Works only on w11. Lol. >Has ddr5 support when ryzen only ddr4 yet > Rzyen using the same socket for 4 generations This is a KO for you? What the hell?
Question from someone who's amazing with hardware: isn't the RAM helping the Intel CPU perform better? 12900K is running with 5200MHz versus 3200MHz for the 5900X.
Not yet, and probably not for a little while. Take a look as the cas latency on the DDR5. Until those timings come down and/or the frequency is pushed further, DDR5 is not going to stand out from DDR4. May be even worse in some cases, initially (Hardware Unboxed saw lower scores with DDR5 than DDR4 on like 3 games). The DDR5 has way more bandwidth, but that's not going to be helpful until more applications/hardware are pushing the limitations of DDR4
@@TropicChristmas I did some research when I was buying my PC to see if I wanted CL14 3200, or CL16 3800, and sometimes 3800 was better, so I thought the DDR5 5200MHz would help the 12900K here. I also just opened their video when the notification came. Thank you for your response; much appreciated!
New Intel Gen win against a 1 year old amd cpu, and needs more power (more than 2X) , and have higher Temps. Lol, if that is a KO.... Just wait for the 6000 series.
3:13 Me too. I don't like the fact that windows 11 has such a big hit on performance in games because of their security. I'll wait and see how that goes and I'll upgrade once either they manage to fix this or if it gets too long
It's great to see Intel back. But I'm happy enough with my 5950x system. After the crazy time building this current system, I've little desire to go through it again so soon. So for me at least I'm going to skip one or two generations before building again. We'll see at that time which platform best suits my needs.
Not everything is so simple, as shown in this video - why did he use DDR4-3200 for AMD, if he could easily use DDR4-3800, which makes it possible to add up to 10-15% in processor performance? Moreover, AMD themselves recommend exactly this (up to 4000), and 3200 is just the Jedec standard, which is indicated in the specification only formally. In addition, it is not clear why they compare 12900K with 5900X - it is unreasonable to compare only the processor price, because the cost of other components on Intel will definitely be higher. The motherboard, memory, power supply, and cooling system - all this together on Intel must meet the highest requirements, otherwise the performance will be significantly lower. So this video uses lies and dirty tricks.
Me who can't afford any of these new hardware: "Damn finally, some competition."
I feel the same.
It does mean old hardware will suddenly be cheaper!
The majority of consumers wont be buying these. Intel lost a good chunk of their market due to pricing. AMD started offering competitive hardware, at a cheaper price, and that's what matters.
Jay assumes people are buying Windows 11... 🤣. Windows 11 will be a minority for another 2-3 years.
@@TMHedgehog whenever that happens lol
@@mangaas i am thinking that most of the gains that intel made may be from ddr5, but it's great for them to come back!
Also Intel delivered a KO to the PSU and cooler....
And electric bill.
Cooler yes psu nah
Nope, the 12900k is barely better at 140w+. I've seen the scores and it proves that power limit to 140w is barely worse compared to non-power limited 205w. Also, Intel runs cooler than Amd at comparable wattage and even if it draws higher power. If you want proof, I can provide that too.
@@GanAirf kk
&0
@@GanAirf pc noob here…how do you get it to run at 140watts? Do you set the voltage offset really high or lower the core voltage?
one of the big problems i see going back to team blue, is the consistent changing of the CPU socket standards. its kinda cool to be able to upgrade without an absolute requirement to change the mobo
Amen
Tbh, starting with the idea that i don't upgrade more often than necessary, by the time i retire a processor, it's mobo won't be useful anymore. Keep the pcie cards, keep the ssds, maybe keep the ram.
Buying into AM4 with Ryzen 5000 means this srtup will be run and put to work and forgotten about the specs until it becomes a liability to not buid something new. By that time, am4 is proper retired...
This mostly means that on a given upgrade cycle, sometimes it's worth getting a higher spec cpu, saving a bit of hassle in daily use over a few years, regardless of platform...
@@seven9766 Yeah IMO CPU is something you need to upgrade only once per DDR generation. Like I bought 5820k back in 2015 with DDR4. Now I will buy Zen 4 6900x or 12900k and will run it till DDR6.
Agreed but also isn't this last time that AMD will be AM4?
If the architecture changed then the socket would probably change too for further optimization, it is just how CPUs work, LGA sockets don't actually change too often unless there is a newer gen with different specs that the previous socket cannot support.
As an 8700k owner I am going to wait one more generation for a few reasons:
1. Windows 11
2. Faster and cheaper DDR5
3. Zen 4
I also have an 8700k and im holding out for the same reasons.
lmao nobody asked
@@robman0865 Ratio.
i7 6700k. Still holding out too.
I just finished my first build with an i7-10700kf. Its awesome and I hope I get a solid 5 years before I have to upgrade. The only reason I went Intel over AMD was price. In NZ Ryzen is consistently more expensive than Intel, a 3700x is $50 less than a i9-10900. the 11900 is the same price as the 5800x and the cheapest ryzen 9 is over $850. I want this battle to continue so I can get the price product at the cheapest price.
I’ll wait to see what AMD pulls out of the hat when they launch. Considering I’m never an early adopter of new tech, it will be interesting to watch the next few months play out between AMD and Intel. It’s so exciting!!!
Same here! I'll never be an early adopter of new hardware, which is why I was totally ok with buying a gaming laptop (that needs to last me 5 years) with the latest gen of amd cpu rather than waiting for the new stuff to come out. I'll take the best of this generation and upgrade once the new stuff gets closer to perfection after a few years
The earliest tech I had was from 2018 (3 years out of date) and it died within a year (older AMD 3400g from China). Now I'm back to a 775 socket Intel Core 2 Quad Q9560 great CPU for it's time (launch date was 08?).
Does not play modern games so I went back to STEAM retro 32 bit gaming for now.
I think the Amd Ryzen 6000 series processors are on the way. But most Pc builders say that there's no way till 2023. I think it'll be having the Amd AM5 CPU Socket, ddr5 and pcie gen5. Okay, let's wait till the new beasts come out.
yessir 12900 k minimums are low if u watch steves review at gamers nexxus if that doesn't get fixed intel will lose again for sure trying to bring mobile cores into desktop territory sounds like an intel move cheap bastards AMD said they were sticking with regular cores and i must say sounds more appealing as a gamer where minimum fps drops can cause noticeable stuttering in games ehhh try again intel ....
@@NeonTetraAquarist - I'm the same with tech. I buy the nice stuff with the intention of 4 or 5 years.
Would be interesting to see an analysis on how DDR5 contributes to the outstanding performance of Alder Lake. I would say that the “KO” Intel dealt to AMD is based on a caveat that DDR5 is helping Intel until we can compare Alder Lake with a DDR5 compatible Zen 4.
Right on. It’s not a pure CPU comparison. It’s cool to see with DDR5 Intel is very fast, but based on my experience RAM speed has a significant effect on synthetic benchmarks.
Already been done on other youtube channels. Some have said DDR 4 Alderlake boards using tight memory timings can actually slightly outperform the ddr5 in a few cases. so difference in ddr 4 and 5 right now in terms of real world speed is barely nothing. By the way this is only the first jab by intel...........the knock out blow will come sometime next year when RAPTOR lake comes out then Meteor Lake Lunar lake and there are others after that.. Intel has plans to slowly up their game using the same 1700 pin socket.
Yeah if a mobo droped amd ddr5 it would be bomb
Given how much AMD is RAM timing and latency dependent, I would assume that AMD would actually lose performance on DDR5 which is why I assume they did not originally intend to bring it to AM5s first chipset. It will take 2-3 gen DDR5 to get the timings under control as it was back with DDR4 at which point AMD would probably go head to head in this particular case.
But for now being forced to support DDR5 just for marketing, they might have caused themself some problems at least on the market reaction side from people that have not the deep hardware understanding to grasp how future DDR5 generations can change the reality in favor of AMD no matter what the initial situation was.
Checkout hardware unboxed's review that compares ddr 4 with 5. Spoiler: The performance uplift isn't much to write home about in most cases and in some apps DDR 4 is better.
Good to see some competition in the CPU market. We all know that when a single company dominates any market, both prices and policies get out of hand. And the consumers can't do much because there is no alternative product they can buy instead (at least one that performs the same as the dominant one).
i cant wait to see how AMDs refresh stacks up. the next 2 years are going to be awesome i think
Yeah, the moment AMD felt an advantage it cranked the 5xxx prices. It's gonna bite them in the ass now.
RIP my peasant 5800x
@@deminybs Calling a 5800X "peasant" can only be described as "heights of sarcasm" (I know you are saying that in comparison to the Alder Lake CPUs but I feel that's over exaggerated especially when I compare it to my own setup).
Look at me, I'm still running a R5 3600 and a GTX 1660 super. 😅😔
Can't wait for the silicon shortage to end so I can finally upgrade.
@@deminybs I love my 5800x.
i stick with my 5900X but i have to say, well done Intel. this is what we need to also prevent AMD to lean back, they have to deliver now
Maybe fairer to say they have to keep delivering, it's not like they've been doing a bad job
It's not like the 5900X suddenly became bad lol. I use the R9 5900X myself and I love it.
It's great to see some competition from both sides. Makes things more interesting, and also gives you more options to choose from if both products being compared are good enough.
This is great news for anyone who loves tech stuff :D
Same here, Intel did a good job on their performance but I'm curious what AMD will bring next. Though for me, I probably will wait till the next generation to release. Hopefully with pricing becoming a bit better for their Motherboards and DDR5.
5800X here, We both are very well settled for many years to come. But its indeed exciting to see the competition flying now. Our next cpu upgrade will be much better!
oh i am totally happy wit my 5900X, its a beast and i will have it for several years before i think of uprading. but even as AMD fan i say job well done Intel. in the end this competition will benefit us all
I'm happy with my systems. I decommissioned my 8 yr old i7 3770k in my LAN PC with a new system with a B550i motherboard with Ryzen 5600X - such a great upgrade. My i7 8700K system had a weird power short that damaged everything so I replaced it with a Ryzen 5900X. These were my first AMD chips in a while and I've been very pleased. I don't plan on upgrading CPUs anytime in the next few years.
Same... at least till the pandemic/shortage issues resolve or subside... I got myself a Zen 2 CPU Ryzen 7 2700X, 16GBx2 3200Mhz RAM, Gigabyte B450 Gaming MOBO with a RX6600XT... It's not the top of the line BUT with the budget I got, This will serve me well enough for years to come... I consider myself lucky to even got this setup with all the pricing bat shits all over the place... Cheers!! PS: 650watts PSU is more than enough for this rig...
Smart move.
@Casual Scum I wouldn't call it obsolete. It's just becoming more of a midrange pc. I have a Zen 2 2700x CPU with a 5700xt GPU and I think I'll give it another year or two. (Probably max 2) I built mine around the same time as you.
Same, replaced my 3570k + 32GB of 1600 with a 5800x + 64GB of 3600 and got a good deal including the CPU being 20% off. Can't complain. Just need a better GPU for that G2 headset... 1080 is kinda tight fit for that.
Enable pbo2 on ryzen 5000 and the performance gains on Alder Lake get negated albeit at the same power usage and temps.
KO or just a counter punch? I really don't think AMD is down for the count.
gamer's nexus believes a lot of this lead is the DDR5. If that's true and AMD releases DDR5 next, then it's possible they'll take back the performance again. And I've already seen it's neck and neck with the 5950x, but uses far more electricity.
it's not a ko title is bs
Agreed AM5 with 3d cash and 5nm well have to see what happens the whispers in the grape vines is 1st gen of AM5 25% to 35% IPC gain and that's coming in a few of months so I'm eagerly waiting to see when the next hammer drops. and like Ryzen maturing Intel 2nd gen of this new arcetextur will hopefully throw down again.
They are for awhile at least. Intel is bringing out 13th & 14th gen all within 18 months w/ massive IPC improvements & core counts. AMD is in trouble if Zen 4 is all they are releasing early 2023.
@@ThaexakaMavro Absolut exaggeration, indeed. And the numbers are way more one sided for intel if i compare it to GN, HU, PH and LTT.
In my area the 5950X would have been way more suited for comparison regarding pricing: 5900X=520€ 12900K=650€ 5950X=720€
I cant wait for a true comparison when amd releases their DDR5 enabled processors , Jay talks of cost difference of the 5950x vs the 12900k which i believe would be more of a proper cost to comparison when you add the cost of new motherboard and ddr5. I would love to see the 12900k vs the 5900x on a intel 12thgen DDR4 motherboard.
You’re comparing cpu. Why does the cost of mobo and ram matter.
@@damian02161986 because you can not use a cpu without those. so looking at the complete system can make sense. if you already have the plattform, sure, disregard it, else it is a factor one should at least consider.
@@damian02161986 it’s a cope because intel is on top again. People just cant be happy that theres competition again and still resort to fanboyism. I use Ryzen atm so no Im not an intel fanboy.
@@MrLemmiwinks91 Nothing to do with being a FAN I am like Jay I buy the best on the market when I upgrade Intel, Nvidia, AMD who cares the ones that best is the one I get.
But I agree as long the intel runs on DDR5 and PCI gen 5 vs DDR4 and PCI gen 4 for the AMD the AMD sits as a disadvantage meaning we don't actually know how much better the Intel actually is until we make the ram and PCI the same in some way,
But I look forward to more competition.
Hardware unboxed did their review with both ddr4 3200 and ddr5 6000. The performance is basically the same even with high end ddr5. some applications do benefit from ddr5 though
Oddly, I trust AMD to do a couple things: 1) provide, with board partners, a more affordable and upgradable platform, and 2) that they will continue to innovate while keeping the overall power draw down. I prefer ITX builds so knowing that I have a capable CPU that doesn't require an AIO or water cooling is a plus.
Can you explain to me why power draw matters? Couldnt you upgrade / build with a higher capacity PSU?
@@arghonandi6818 More power = more heat = more fans = more noise.
@@arghonandi6818 Hmmm, I guess he pays his own power bill.....
@@HadleyTheGreat Yeah more heat is usually a bigger issue than more noise, cause Noctua Fans give you a lot of AIR with barely any noise.
@@astranger448 or maybe he's broke lol
Wouldn’t call it a “KO” when you factor in the price premium for the motherboard, RAM and the ungodly amount of cooling you’re going to need.
exactly more like after 10 rounds we have a winner by a narrow margin
120$ for mother board and 12600kf for 380$. canadian btw. it's cheap
@@Thescrubshow you missed the DDR5, cooling and PSU my guy
@@Thescrubshow That motherboard must be pretty bad. ITX by any chance?
DDR5 RAM will be at least £100+ for 16 GB
New PSU's (1200w plat's anyway) are like £250.
AIO's or custom water loops cost £150-£250.
Plus the CPU, £500.
That's almost a £1000 (not including a decent mobo, which is at least £200) upgrade for, let's be real, not a massive boost in performance. It's not worth it. Not until DDR5 is a regular option and cheaper, or the 12th gens get more refined for cooling and power usage. Couldn't be further from a KO if it tried.
@@shadowdraxx ddr5 cooling? what does the PSU have to do with the cpu? Also you can use ddr4 memory with the 12th gen CPU's
And the battle continues! I can't wait to see the next generation of Ryzen performance now!
I built a 5600x system last January, so not going to upgrade to Intel any time soon. If AMD delivers a new cpu for the X570 boards that will be there best option for current users.
@@PaulRohrbaugh it wont. the 5000 series was the last AM4 chip. The next will be 5nm on a diff board.
@@sabrevanson4412 next 3d v-cache is am4
@@sabrevanson4412 nope 3d vache
And not long after that, how the next generation of Intel performs
Sticking with AMD. I think they've been on a great path with the recent gens and I'm excited to see what they do with their next release. I don't think they're sweating this Intel release at all, more so I think Intel is trying to keep up in an attempt to leapfrog past AMD's chips, which could potentially fall short every time until AMD trips over their own choices/success and allows Intel to make a significant move past them.
Every reviewer: "This is a furnace!
Jay: "I am seeing 70C" 🤷♂️
Which is still hot 😂 if it was f then it pretty Luke warm
Jay mentioned that he's keeping Intel to the out of box settings and is running a 360 rad with 100% fans. I don't know yet what other reviewers were running, but it will be interesting to see how that compares.
@@ericepperson8409 linus did the same with an nhd15 and it was in the 90 stock. it is indeed a furnance if u need a 360 rad only to keep it under 80 in heavy load
@@chriswright8074 no its not. my 8 year old intel cpu was going 95C every day for 7 years and still works fine... 70 is good on full performance. idle under 20 is amazing as well.
@@kuma8030 that was because all the limits were off on it
good to see intel actually do an upgrade for once, excited to see what AMD does in response
Ryzen 6000 series is already in production with expected release in first half of 2022.
Not to mention Intel doing amazing research and development to fit all that in that gigantic box at a low price? 😅
This plus the weird behavior in Windows 11 with Ryzen CPUs, I really hope MS & AMD can get those issues cleared up
AMD is dying, kid - they will have the same terrible Bulldozer Engineers.
@@KNIGHTSFALLN January release date*
Wow, did not expect this much performance on Intel's side. Competition is great.
I just did a quick blender bench on my 5950X on an old bloated windows install, it pulls the same numbers as the 12900K stock.
Cool story, but who asked?
LMAO yeah buddy nobody asked :)
@@frostygoogle9268 idk he has 19 likes u guys have 0
This is why I love this channel! It's a more balanced review by far.
I really don't want to upgrade to Windows 11. I don't want to sink huge money into a first Gen iteration of power+efficiency cores, DDR5 or Gen-5 PCI-e on a motherboard that I doubt I'd keep by the time graphics cards require that bandwidth.
It took freaking years for software, namely games, to use multiple cores back in the Core2Quad days and AMD really kicked that into overdrive in the last few years, which I'm grateful for, but it'll take a few iterations before we see how well developers manage tasks on different types of cores, especially when AMD is still using all-power cores in comparison.
Honestly it's about price. I've only had Intel all my life, but if I had to buy a new system now I'd rather go with the 5900X which will come down in price, their motherboard is cheaper and DDR4 RAM is significantly cheaper as well. Not to mention lower power draw if you're hitting all the cores.
Competition breeds innovation however, so I'm glad the 14nm to infinity and beyond era is over.
Small performance increase over processors already a year old for 2x the power consumption according to Gamerz Nexus review, I wouldn't call that a KO. I would call it a future proof win for consumers tho, cause now these two Companies have keep innovating to one up each other, which is a big win for us the customers, no matter what side you choose.
Unfair battle: We should we waiting on Zen4 LINEup vs Intel 12gen.
You can't even cool that thing with a Noctua NH-D15 so this CPU will not end up in gaming or non workstation PCs.
no body gives a rats ass about the TPW because if you are pushing these chips, you have the money... and the chances are, you are pushing a 2060 or a 30 series NVidia at least.
Intel also worked with windows 11, optimization, New DDR5, more consumption isn't a knockout
@@jkutnink87 I think a lot of people myself included would still prefer air cooling and when there is a 5950 that nearly uses half as much power and gets nearly the performance in heavy workload I would rather take that.
I saw an article that shows the intel has significantly higher power consumption as well when pushed. It was slightly faster than the 5950 in some tasks
but also drew another 100W more for the small gain..
Intel was running at 240w while AMD was deliberately limited to 100w...
@@neiliewheeliebin lol
@@doplere6364 Sad thing is it's not a joke that was the benchmark Intel released themselves
@@neiliewheeliebin that’s wild. I wonder how AMD is able to get their wattages down. Even their GPU’s run cooler than Nvidia cards
Actually, it is worse than that. They said it is 30% faster than the 5950x, but it was also consuming 240% more power.
Furthermore, they specifically used a version of windows where the Ryzen cache performance had NOT been patched yet, essentially hamstringing the Ryzen.
I'm really surprised to see Jay make this video, because it is fully bullshit. Intel's comparison was patently dishonest, and even main stream outlets called it out immediately.
It's also an almost $670 MSRP, vs the 5950s inflated $750 MSRP.
So, it's probably 15% faster on patched windows, uses more than TWICE as much power, costs almost as much, and you'll need to buy a significantly more expensive motherboard to boot.
I'm all set on Intel, thanks.
I'm similar to you Jay. I follow wherever the performance goes. If I were looking at upgrading soon. I would probably wait to see what the next gen for AMD is at in terms of performance and then make my decision on what to get.
Similar, but more the bang for the buck lane here. Had lots of AMD+ATi combos in the past, but before going 5800x I had Intel+nVidia and that 1080 still is in my current setup. Well, about 15-20 years ago there was a trend to avoid TCPA which basically had you ending up on Team Red&Red for quite a while regardless.
Me too, but I lean towards Intel/nvidia, because every time a switch, stability becomes a problem. Hell, I run a i7 6700k for years without overclocking it. When I reboot my current system (Ryzen 5 3600), I have a 50/50 chance the system locks up during POST.
Great to see Intel finally back in shape but the title should have been: "1 gen newer Intel delivered a KO to 1 gen older Ryzen". Alder lake is supposed to compete with Zen 4.
Intel has only catches up with AMD. It has YET to beat AMD. It is considered beaten IF Intel can come up with a product that performs on par, or better than AMD's latest product released AFTER that of Intel's product.
@@triparadox.c Well, Intel's Rocket Lake came out after Zen 3 and was supposed to compete with current Ryzen but still completely failed. I can understand every benchmark compare them with Ryzen 5000 since last gen Intel were so bad but that only says how good Zen 3 was to compete on par with 2 generation from Intel.
Exactly what i'm thinking.
@@triparadox.c says who? the best product, either in price/performance, or performance alone is the winner. you sound like a amd fanboy but you should just choose the best product at the time you need a new build. a year ago i would build amd, today i would build intel. intel didnt just catch up with amd now, they beat them, and for a lower price!
@@FordSierraIS "you sound like a amd fanboy"
I've never owned a single AMD chipset in my entire life. Not my laptops, not my desktops. I've even had an intel powered smartphone (Asus Zenfone 2)
This is GREAT news, now maby i'll be able to buy a price-reduced high end ryzen cpu soon!
I had the same thought. I didn't even think about purchasing the new intel😂😂
So right! This can only be good as it should get AMD to drop there prices to something a bit more sensible...I did not expect AMD to charge so much but once success came they cashed in...Needed Intel to start competing!
HAHA HOW THE TURNS HAVE TABLED!
No plans on spending stupid money to try and upgrade to a new untested platform made of unobtainium. Not for AMD not for Intel. Especially not to watch it running at 20% usage with my GPU running at 100%.
@Duk3 for me, owning an x570 using a 3600, my next upgrade will be a 5600x.
If I could justify the price for a new mobo, cpu and ram, I would 100% go intel 12th gen.
I don't understand fanboys either
With how CPU intensive MSFS is, I'd love to see those benchmarks.
Check out LTT (Linus tech tips). They tested Flight Sim.
@@aliabdullahsadiq AMD would be better in Microsoft flight simulator (marginally)
MSFS and flight simming in general remains the biggest enigma in gaming.
(“Why can’t you be normal!?”)
What ali said, ltt did it and basically said it was all over the place
@@AsthmaticKirby Because of Windows 11
As a 54 yr old gamer, unemployed since Covid2019, fixed income, trying to survive on a self built 2011 FX-8370 system. I really hope this helps bring costs down so us running way-back machines can finally get closer to some kind of current build. Life has been pretty rough, and using gaming as an out or perhaps a streaming income gets harder and harder each day we get older.
"AMD's 3rd Gen Ryzen finally forces Intel to move forward" There... I fixed your headline.
3rd gen ryzen was 3xxx not 5xxxx
@@idontwalkslow I think they mean Zen3
ok amd frog zzzz
*"Intel may finally force AMD to drop their pricings..."
fixed your comment for you.
@@IntelCorei-KProcessor-go2to hahahahahhahaahaaaaa...
if "fixing" to you means increasing... then yes :D
Considering that a 12900k system(CPU, DDR5, mb, cooler) costs more than a 5950x system, I'm not sure how relevant a comparison to a 5900x actually is.
It's relevant if you're trying to sneakily make Intel look better in your video
@@erikhendrickson59 So you're saying it's not better? Care to explain why?
Don't forget the massive power draw of the 12900k. It's uses 2x the power of a 5950x stock when going full tilt.
@@Elc22 And the temps, Amd have to much room to improve his actual gen. In some months AMD will destroy this Intel CPUs whitout effort.
@@Elc22 They use close to the same real world power
Nahh....I'll keep using my 5900x for now.
well ofc you will... why the hell would you change cpu every year. Just a waste of money and bad for the environment
5900x is perfectly fine for 4-5 years for the average user
Why would you consider swapping a current CPU? That makes no sense.
If you had no CPU would you still chose the 5900x? But also based on price shouldn't this be compared to the 5950x though?
@@Havok412 In the end it depends if you're building from scratch or have a B400 or 500 board.
So if you're upgrading from something like a Ryzen 2600 to 5600X you likely don't need to change motherboards.
But going for a 12600K adds the price of a new motherboard to the mix.
But if you're building a new PC from scratch and need the fastest CPU possible then Intel is the objectively correct choice at the moment.
At least until AMD musters some kind of response to it.
"Intel just delivered a KO to Ryzen" Yeeah i don't think they did.
15% to 20% performance increase isn’t a knockout?
12600k just murdered AMD mainstream lineup. It's over. I still had to get the 12900k though cuz I'm a snob. That 12600k though. What happens to the 5800x now? Over 100$ more and worse in gaming? Good luck w that Lisa Su. LOL
Going with boxing references, they more knocked AMD on their back. AMD can definitely get back up and counter with their upcoming lineup, but honestly this is the best Intel has done in ages, so if I wanted to give an analogy for it, it'd be something like: AMD KO'd Intel last match, but upon rematching, Intel showed that they did some training.
Silly analogies aside, let's just hope the competition stays a competition this time.
@@blade141287 to a one year old generation without ddr5 etc.... yes it isn't a real knockout. It is more a "hey finally intel can do something"
@@TrxPsyche how does AMD handle the 12600k? To continue the boxing analogy, the 12600k is like if a prime Mike Tyson was fighting against guys in lower weight classes. Under 300$.. 12600k is the chip AMD has always dreamed of. Game Over. I had to get the 12900k this morning cuz that's me, but how does AMD respond to 12600? The 5800x looks silly now.
With this being a hybrid I can only imagine the odd issues that will occur post launch. I don't play to build another machine for another 2 years so let the 13xxx and 14xxx release and by that time stuff will probably stabilize.
In a way this is Intel’s Ryzen 1000 series. They have alot of things to resolve from drivers, to Windows 11 to new DDR5 to PCIe gen 5, so many new things that there are definitely oddities here and there. However just like AMD’s Ryzen 3000 is actually very recommendable and stable, the real test will be on their 13xxx or 14xxx for Intel.
The main takeaway is that, despite all that, Intel 12xxx does claim the top spot again, so its already better start compared to Ryzen 1000. Despite AMD chipping away, Intel is still quite dominant in things like, what stock mounting the cooler comes from so AMD probably will need to play the value card again now.
Yup I'm siting pretty with 3900X on a ROG Strix X570-E Gaming with 64gb corsair 3200 Vengeance RGB ram I got another 3 years maybe more before I feel the need to start upgrading. I can only imagine what that's hardware is going to be like. Hopefully we have a new president that cares about people working and gets are economy pumping again and cost are not mega over inflated..
LOL, at the rate things are going now, the 14900k (and any AMD equivalent) will probably cost $2k for the chip alone! The high end PC gaming industry is slowly starting to price itself out of existence! :(
@@SuperGokuSon Tbh, most of the time you will need your GPU upgraded first before you ever need the CPU so even as the AMD vs Intel fight it out, you don't NEED to upgrade it right now. You will also need to be playing newer games, and probably upgrading to 4K or something to take advantage of the extra GPU power. I'm on 3600x and 2070 Super, so probably will only check on it when 4000 or 5000 series dropping in.... which is probably in like 2 or 3 years at the rate thing is going.
But aside from that, this is probably exciting time for tech journalist since now they have alot of things to test, and makes worthwhile content out of. Its also a better-than-expected start for Intel, since they don't even need to play the Value card too for a literal start of new generation.
@@ArchusKanzaki I know people that still Rock 780s and are totally content with it at 1080p or even 1440p youre fine with your 2000 cards I have an rx6800 and its Total overkill for pretty much anything I do... best and worst upgrade I ever made
Good to see a 2021 cpu beating a 2020 Cpu. It's amazing, oh wait....
I feel like people are missing the fact that this comparison is with a product that's been out for more than a year. And its successor is right around the corner.
And that’s just a small update.
Plus intel eats a lot more power
Wanna just comment and say I am sorry about the way I responded to not winning. I acted like an entitled dork. I didn't deserve to win anything with the attitude I had and the attitude I had is probably the reason karma blew up my 1080 and I am stuck with my cursed 770. Regardless... Please consider removing those retweets because I am getting a bunch of targeted harassment from trolls and a lot of hate messages from people I don't even know telling me to go die because I was upset, unfortunately inebriated and made a mistake like all humans do just this one was on a social media platform where my mistake was retweeted a few hundred times and then I got dog piled on by a bunch of people who took it way too far. Not saying I didn't deserve to be dunked on a little bit because, well, I was acting like a damn fool but at the same time man you have the power to just make some of it go away but by having those tweets up it really kinda sucks for me because anyone who sees that may be inclined to send me some hate mail like others have. I don't hate your channel I never did and I do apologize for my behavior but you could have just ignored me and let it go but yeah... is what it is... I wont be entering the next contest or probably any after because I now feel like I don't deserve to try to enter or win anything because of my behavior but it would be nice if you could just undo the retweet so I can stop getting death threats and told to go commit suicide by total strangers, thanks. And good luck to all in JayzGiving and all future contests, may your GPU's and whatever other hardware you may win serve you well and for many years. Sincerely... :( Real King Kosher
you sound genuinely sorry, i am also sorry for joining in on it and making fun of you, i should remember that everyone has a struggle and maybe people act how they do because of it
@@jimirobins6908 update... fortune smiles on me... just obtained a GTX 1070 TI... can finally game again... no more 770...
Considering how much power 12th gen uses, the performance gains are pretty linear. Alder Lake basically has no headroom, it's running close to redline all the time.
Same power usage when gaming as the 5950x
Not alderlake, only the i9, which has been a trend among Intel CPUs for basically forever. Its barely better at 205w compared to 140w power limit.
It will be interesting to see how AMD responds with Zen 4. Nice to see real competition.
I think zen3d will take back gaming crown
What was the power draw during the tests tho? AMD 5900X rated at 105W stock while the 12900K rated at 241W stock. So what was it hitting when overclocked? Over 300W would be my guess. I have a 5600X which is 65W but overclocked I see 92W draw during benchmarks.
Intel is doing the same trick Nvidea is doing : We need more speed so just increase the power draw. But it is faster and I think this because they increased the l3 cache and they have faster clock speeds. It is a valid victory for Intel just with a big *.
Leaks says that 12900k after 5.3ghz oc pulls 400+W
@@j4ck3t indeed a big * since its a newer gen vs and older one plus all that shit
If you want raw performance Intel beats AMD, but in terms of performance to power draw to price (+Mainboards) AMD still has the advantage.
My 5950x at 4.8ghz says on hwinfo uses 145W for me.
The testing on windows 11 will show just how much a Windows has worked with Intel directly compared to AMD to make sure that their product runs seemlessly. This is likely to push push a cheaper price for windows to use Intel CPU's to help keep the majority of market share. Also all amd needs to do is lower their prices.
Um, if you haven't noticed Nvidia, AMD and Intel doesn't control the pricing... The stores do.... By the way, what did you expect Intel to do; launch like the 2xxx and 3xxx processors did a few years ago, without bio's even able to boot to desktop?
13:50 "The Temperatures were extremely reasonable." - using 360 / three fan AIO cooler.
"It's not that hot!" says guy in 50 foot by 120 foot massive room.
Not a single note on power consumption. How many other people here have to run their rig in a small confined area?
Down-voted.
Amen, such a b******t review...
I feel like the DDR5 made some sort of impact and while it says all stock i'm curious if PBO was disabled? It's weird cause your 5900x scores for cinebench are 10-20% lower than most averages you see posted online..
It seems a lot of reviewers left the 5900x/5950x "stock" without PBO which really hurts workloads like that.
@@VanillaWahlberg we need to head to Reddit maybe
@@VanillaWahlberg but on the other hand they can show that stock 5950x pulls 120W while stock intel pulls 241W
Paid advertisement by Intel not much to explain
@@testplmnb and?
It's great to see Intel truly moving forward for the first time in a long time. But comparing a nex-gen processor (DDR5 and up to 330W power draw) to it's current-gen competitor (DDR4, 142W power draw) isn't exactly fair...I would have liked to see 11900K and/or 10900k in the charts as well to compare Intel vs Intel. A lot of speculation is also based on "is it the DDR5 boost?" and so running a 12900k on say an ASRock Z690 Steel Legend or MSI PRO Z690-A will help show what kind of performance gain the DDR5 has directly on the metrics. So if you do this again when AMD comes out with the 3d V-cache models, can you add those metrics as well? I'm also leery that the core scheduler in Win11 is one Windows update away from catastrophe, see Win11 vs AMD, but that's a different story.
so AMD finally forced Intel to bring better performance!
Thanks AMD 👍 ... now bring out new gen Zen 😁
let intel have their brief win, 2022 will be the death of intel..once again
And AMD will have a brief death when intel comes up with something “better” so what’s your point
@@anonimatorweeb9238 intel took 7yrs
Smells like fanboys failing to understand that there needs to be competition since both AMD and intel need each other for that to happen so I’d be happy with either tbh
@@anonimatorweeb9238 lol 7 years is not brief....
finally this is the time we have been waiting for the real competition between two. Cant wait to see what AMD will bring in the near future and the further reply from intel as well!!
AMD will not be beaten. Mark my words
@@danhex never
@@danhex Don't be silly , intel have another 5 generations planned already and they are working on them. Alderlake is only the START of the socket 1700 series. Intel said that once and AMD beat them for around 4 years ,intel came back and thrashed AMD (core series onwards) and then AMD came back with Ryzen. Speaking as someone who was a UK OC champ 2006 (A-BIT) and 2nd place 2010 (Gigabyte), you are acting like an immature fan boy! If you knew the industry then the rule of thumb is that over a 5 year span (on average) one company tops another and then the cycle repeats. Now a REASONABLE attitude would be 'its good to see competition from Intel again and to REALLY make the market interesting is a third company to start producing chips. These amd-nvidia intel-amd wars are for silly people who are YOUNG in the industry.
@@danhex cope fanboy
nothing AMD has always been shit lmao
Built my new PC a few weeks ago. Went from a 2500k to an 83500 for years to a 3600x to now a 12700k. MASSIVE boost in gaming with my new 3080 Ti. Went from 60-70fps in battlefield with 50-60% GPU utilization to a locked 144fps with 90-95% GPU utilization. Alder Lake is a true next gen leap, and I hope AMD makes another leap so we can see the competition keep going.
Yeah they delivered a KO in power consumption
Show us a true price comparison of ADL versus Zen 3, including motherboard and RAM. Sick of seeing that the 12600K is a "great value" when the boards and RAM make it 30-40% more expensive than even a 5800X based system.
yep and do not forget the doubled powerdraw
yep, everything on a intel platform is more pricey so AMD still better TBH!
12600k is what the 5600 a monster but I'm still going to amd
@@breakfest5081 the 12600k literally uses 120w the 5800x can use 200w on the same stress tests lol wtf
@@chriswright8074 12600k smokes both the 5600x and 5800x...
I’m kind of hesitant to get 12th gen cpus because of those software incompatibility issues. I would like to see more tests done on which applications and old games won’t work with these cpus
P core and E core could be an interesting design going forward, low power cores for all the small stuff. things like steam, icue, etc if the scheduler works right would be thrown at the E Cores.
8 cores are not needed for background tasks though.
Yea like MsBroslo said already, this isn't a new concept and the fact that the power usage is around 250Watts already is pretty bad. The Ryzen 5950x already performs better overall performance for 1/3 the wattage. I know people don't care enough about wattage but things are surely changing where power usage is getting more expensive and might actually change the usage of such computers. Also, this setup isn't really great for servers and multiprocessor systems where they require multiple cores at a solid power efficiency as multiple CPU's with 3x the wattage vs a system that performs similarly at 1/3 the wattage would be highly costly.
@@rudysal1429 more wattage means more power consumption that means more energy consumption, that directly affects the environment too. All those energy plants are mostly running on fossil fuels.
@@rudysal1429 you're right, it's mostly wasted power (ok, the heat can be used when it's cold outside).
On top, you'll need better cooling, which also consumes more power and makes the system (in many cases) also louder.
@@LMT069 i see u never updated windows before😂
Awesome now maybe AMD will lower their prices👍
You said that this was a price comparison. But I would like to see the total price of the system you have for both setups. My (limited) understanding is that the 12900k needs more expensive RAM, Motherboard and PSU. Correct?
Lol not to mention a badass cooler for the heater of a chip
The power supply will be fine as a rule. I normally go with a 1000 to 1200 watt power supply anyway. From what I have seen from some of the reviewers is that you would need a good to high end cooler to keep it cool. But time will tell on that. The high heat loads alot of the reviewers was seeing maybe early Bios problems. That is one more reason not to jump till all the major bugs are worked out.
Why would you limit yourself to 3200 Mhz ram with the AMD system? That 5900X can handle higher clocked RAM. Those scores are sick though. I don't think it would have made up much ground.
@@mhnoni It's absolutely stable... AMD themselves said it's the price/performance sweet spot.
I've ran 3600 Mhz since day 1 on my 5600x...
@@VanillaWahlberg it's what I have been running in my PC for over a year without issue.
@@VanillaWahlberg same thing here except its with a 3600
@@mhnoni the problem is with the higher speed ones bcs of infinity fabric not with 3600
I doubt it would have changed the results much but...
The DDR5 that was used was overclocked. Intel specifies 4800 not 5200 on its product page. So these benchmarks were completed out of spec.
The Ryzen 5900x should have had DDR4 3600 NOT 3200 to be overclocked too.
Again, I doubt it'd have made a real difference but Jay's tests are invalid as it wasn't stock vs stock.
I'm confused, if you're doing an "AI OC" version of the 12900k, why are you not doing a memory OCed version of the 5900X? It's not hard to drop in a 3600 kit, and set the fclck to 1800.
Because he's not honest. Look when he says "80 degrees on a 360 AIO". He's barely able to keep composure. Then he goes on to say that Intel is not that "power hungry + hot" anymore. I'd like to see a power consumption chart between the two...
I am not saying the CPU isn't good, I am just saying that AMD has to not only deliver a good product but fight against the benchmark manipulations and fanboyism.
@@mikegleasonjr Its also on an open test bench, 80c on an open test bench on a 360 aio
@@mikegleasonjr GN had power consumption comparisons. Intel is pushing 244 watts while a stock 5950X is half that.
@@mikegleasonjr I don't think Jay is being malicious, but I do think this is an oversight that needs to be addressed since the only practical overclocking, on Zen, is through basic memory settings (and it's not a complex setting to do).
In part, I also believe whatever Zen 3 successor will see a good degree of a performance boost due to it's reliance on memory (and the natural boost on speed). Moving up to DDR5, especially with it's dual buffer pipeline approach, is going to be interesting.
Thats because anything more than 3200 would be considered an overclock for AMD cpu. He wasted to keep it as stock as possible. But I'm not really sure why he went with a 5200mhz even though Intel's website lists 4800 as supported frequency. Maybe because they were just hard to find.. idk
Just a note, I've now watched multiple reviews and when running my own tests on the 5900X(with all background tasks enabled and while mining) I get around 25% more performance on average. My system is under water with a custom loop, and I am running 3600/CL16 ram, but this shouldn't make that much of a difference. It irks me as all reviews have the same delta, maybe the increased memory speed, and custom loop are pushing the system way harder then what people used to do the benchmarks(some things I didn't see is the CAS latency and motherboard used for the AMD comparison rig). Anyway, just a side note, it's good for all of us that AL has impressive performance, keeps pricing in check and spurs innovation.
yea taking those clickbait reviews with a grain of salt is the way to go
Silicon lottery probably
That power draw and heat output gives me Netburst feelings
Who cares about power. I'd put 2000 watts to it if it would be faster
The world: "Intel - please stop capping peak power and nerfing performance in favor of segmenting your chip markets."
Pre Ryzen Intel: "No! We do what we want, not what you want. Profit rules baby!"
Post Ryzen Intel (may fails and discounted silcon later): "Hey, we have this new Hybrid architecture that can beat Ryzen. We say it's from new architecture but it's really because we secretly stopped nerfing our performance cores."
@@erickwalker11 helll noooo
@@erickwalker11 People who's bills are paid by them, not their parents
@@Rogu14 I pay all my bills I just happen to make a s%&t ton of moolah so I stick with highest performance at all cost at every release.
Obviously I’m sticking to AMD since I bought my 5800x not long ago but even if I hadn’t I still would stay AMD just due to the price alone of going to z690 + ddr5. The bang for buck still seems to be Ryzen for now until ddr5 and those mobos drop in price.
for games the difference isn't that huge between new gen intel vs amd
@@shadowrealms2676 especially since we don’t know what the bench’s are with ddr4 if you wanted to save a few bucks.
Not completely true, we dont know yet. But combining the reviews of Linus and Hardware unboxed, the 12600k with ddr4 might be insane value. ddr5 offers very little in their ddr4 vs ddr5 comparison.
keep coping
I wonder how much of that improvement was due to DDR5 over DDR4. As it's been stated, Ryzen, especially Ryzen 2nd Gen, performs better with faster ram (sweet spot is still ~3600MHz, I believe).
Looking forward to the next Ryzen surprise, especially if it goes with DDR5.
What I said, where are the DDR4 Intel vs Ryzen benchmarks ?
this is still a benefit right now. Just like having PCIe4 swayed my decision to an tiger lake in the laptop market.
I just finished my first build with an i7-10700kf. Its awesome and I hope I get a solid 5 years before I have to upgrade. The only reason I went Intel over AMD was price. In NZ Ryzen is consistently more expensive than Intel, a 3700x is $50 less than a i9-10900. the 11900 is the same price as the 5800x and the cheapest ryzen 9 is over $850. I want this battle to continue so I can get the price product at the cheapest price.
Yep, I just bought a 10600k for similar reasons, price/performance ratio. To me the 10600k is the best value for my price range.
Hi jay, can you test the i5 12600k iGPU with DDR5 vs ryzen 5600g & 5700g?
Was just about to build an 11th gen rig. I am so happy I decided to go to Microcenter and return my MOBO, RAM and CPU. It was only $100 dollars more to upgrade to Alder Lake and DDR5 RAM. I got the last 16 GB's that Microcenter Denver had.
I'm curious how Intel 12th Gen works with virtualization. I'm assuming you'd have to assign both types of cores, not just cores overall.
The big little design will cause all kinds of incompatibility problems with many legacy x86 programs. It's bullshit and not worth it for desktops. For low power ARM is the way to go.
great question that is being discussed over on the level1techs forums
which thread exactly?
@@Skyline_NTR I don't recall- Wendell also just talked about it in his L1Linux 12900k video - he basically said "It doesn't work very well yet" which is about the gist of any threads Ive seen on the topic.
Every VM would have to have code to detect hybrid architecture and block usage to certain cores, and so far that's not happening yet.
Honestly, if you're looking to do VM stuff, just stick to a traditional CPU, especially AMD or 11th Gen Intel.
Good to see Intel finally get there preformance back from amd, however I am still sticking around with team red as ddr5 memory is way to expensive and I don't feel like changing my entire system to go team blue. Therefor amd currently is my preferred company and can't wait to see what amd does next to get the crown back! Good work Intel though.
Same, just got a 5600x paired with highest clock memory available and a 2080ti and running everything basically max. Amd ftw until ddr5 drops price
With 300 w
@@AndreiSMRsarmale?
@@utahr4ptor75 intel procesors now are heat for winter and in workload with a litle bit of overclockes can consume 300 w & 400 w of power and is stupid .
Ddr5 on new generation of amd will much more good performance .
@@AndreiSMRsarmale ah Ok, did see something about that but wasn't 100% sure if it was true as it was a leaked benchmark. And I don't trust it until it releases.
As someone who has a 3 to 5 year upgrade cycle, I'll wait for team red's answer and DDR 5 prices to get better. Nevertheless, it is good to see a competitive Intel.
Great video! I'm curious to see how these CPUs will perform with Intel GPUs on Windows 10 and 11. I think the number of variables that are going to be available soon, we may need to change the way we are making decisions about CPU and GPU combos.
Important to consider when going by price comparison that Linus brought up: yeah, the processors themselves may be in competing price brackets, but you also have to factor in the much higher cost of motherboards to even use said CPU and DDR5 RAM to fully utilize it's power. Getting a motherboard for the 12000 series will cost you about $150-200 more than a mid range Ryzen board.
Also on top the power/heat costs if you need a Air conditioner to cool your room while gaming on Intel then the cost increases significantly
Great video!
Right now, if AMD keep up with the great quality performance and prices, I have no intention to go back to Intel. I gave up Intel for now. I'm on a Ryzen 3700X and I am very happy with it. Last time I had an AMD was back in 1995 and they were awful in terms of heat but still was a great CPU. I also had Cyrix and IBM 6x86MX - Those were great at the time. Maybe I'll switch to a Ryzen 5950X, who knows?
Finally! Intel make some effort
Intel has been beating ryzen in the budget market since 9th gen, 10th gen and 11th gen, can't wait to see how much 12th gen i5 budget cards beat 5600x again 😂
@@joemama8243 yeah right
Man if I didn't have to upgrade just about everything I'd be waiting in line for this! Always a catch no matter what!
Intel Rider..
No reason to hype this up, I wouldn't say this is some magic cpu. Not until amd releases thier next line on am5 ddr5 in a few months.
@@Ryan-re1rs Am5 and DDR5 for AMD is not until at least mid to late 2022. Soon however, we will get the 6000 series, no doubt it will match or pass Intels 12th gen.
@@Ryan-re1rs there is a reason to hype it up. The performance is excellent. Whenever amd puts out their new stuff if it's better then we can hype that then meteor lake will come out with a jump again and that will get hyped.... see how that works. Nothing but the best no matter the company. I have a shitload of motherboards laying around and most I've sold. I upgrade at every launch if it's better than the last no matter the company
It's great to see more innovation. But, as far as gaming goes, we need some real innovation from the programmers to create engines that use multi threading and multi gpu. It's sad that most games use just one thread for the game and one other for sound. So much untapped power sitting in PCs from even 5 years ago. But, there really isn't any motivation to change for the game companies.
If it wasn’t for ryzen we’d still be on 14nm
That's why this isn't a KO. Intel had to push it to stay in the game.
Never stopped evereything else this fast to click on a YT push message
Originality right here
You and me both, had to drop everything at work… it’s funny because at the exact same time Linus also pushed out a video on the same subject.
Fabulous! Intel just out-inovated the whole industry with it`s concept of having high power cores for performance and high efficency low power cores for mundane tasks, giving it insane performance figures whilst having just laughably low energy consumption. Oh wait.....
😂
@@robertlee6338 he was being sarcastic
@@robertlee6338 I am very aware of that and referring to the capability of the arm archtecture to allow different types of cores within the same package. Nonetheless even you can't deny, that the Apple Silicones performance/watt is better than anything that Intel throws on the comsumer market. Amd although this most recent iteration is finallly a step into the right direction and the performance is quite impressive, Intel once more forces this performance gain with power consumption.
@Sut Nack You are what I call a rare sighting of an Intel fanboy. You been in hiding the past 4 years? Where you been? I bet you’re real sore from everyone laughing at Intel. What was it like to support the much larger, richer company who was losing to a much smaller, poorer company? I can feel the embarrassment.
@@nyastclair8174 Well who had issues with cyberpunk and windows 11? Not Intel lol
Let's go!! So glad to see the competition return now it's time for AMD to hit back!
Given the insane cost of (unobtainable) DDR5 RAM, I'd like to see a similar comparison using a DDR4-based motherboard. This is the route that a LOT of people are likely to use to go 12th Gen. In a couple of years when DDR5 prices become reasonable, there's another performance boost for a few hundred dollars.
It is not just the pricing though. Just like the DDR3 to DDR4 switch the speeds of 3 at the time were far higher than those offered on 4. The same is true for the speeds of 4 right now compared to those of 5. The only thing 5 offers over 4 right now is lower voltages. If you are someone like Jay who understands timings and clocks etc of RAM than mb 5 makes sense since you could manually overclock the speeds up.
So I'll need the Starkiller base technology of harnessing the power of the nearest star in order to power the 12900k for minimal performance increase?
As for me, I just switched to team red this generation. Intel had their chance with me and it'll be a while before i consider going back.
@Casual Scum
Haha yeah, I just bought a 10600k about 2 months ago and I’m happy with it, regardless of new hardware. Just have to keep everything in perspective, you don’t NEED the newest hardware.
Heck, no game I’ve played yet has even used more than 50% of my CPU and I’m running a 3060 gpu.
I went Team Red 3900x last year. A month later the 3900XT was released and 5900X shortly after. That was annoying but my philosophy is that you buy a new computer when you need one. And I needed one (self employed). Will be watching Team Blue vs Red pan out and see who is winning when i feel the need for a new machine. Definitely don't think it is worth an unforced upgrade right now.
One got my 3700x and keeping with that. There's no good games at the moment that I can't run above 60fps with it.
And it's not like the older FX CPU argument of "futureproof" because like... it's literally fast enough to keep up with pretty much all but the absolute fastest GPUs anyways, so who really cares?
And my notification box is now filled with Alder Lake reviews!!!
this is only one ive gotten, actually thats not true, i didnt get this one either
I wonder how viable this could would be as a video encoder on its own in something like a stream PC setup or dual system chassis. Being able to switch between energy efficiency and performance on a hardware level could be interesting for quality of life.
If you're streaming, you should probably use GPU encoding
@@daniellundberg2875 a little harder to get a gpu and a cpu in tandem these days, and if this is a more energy efficient solution without sacrificing quality so that you don't have to offload that kind of overhead onto your gpu, then it could be a decent option for mid range streamers with older cards.
I know going purely on efficenty some ARM cpu would probably win, but i still i think one should at least point out the power draw of the systems.
Impressive performance Intel shows off. Last year at the start of the COVID-19 shutdown, I used the time to build my new desktop around AMD 3800X and I will stick to this build. On one hand, I confess being more of an AMD minded guy. On the other hand, I'm completely satisfied with the performance of my current build.
On 1440p and Just gaming alone, my 8700k is still going strong. That was a good buy in 2017.
I just bought a 5900x and am happy with it. Good to see intel back in the game, good for the market
I'll keep my 5900X for now, I have it running fine in my mini itx case. From what I've read Intel's chip seems to get a bit too toasty for the coolers you can fit in a tiny case. Anyway, great to see an Intel comeback! Hope they do the same with the "alchemist" graphics cards, because that market is in a much worse shape.
That is my experience with Intel CPU's... they get very toasty and then thermal throttle pre-turbo can happen which is HORRIBLE.
That and if you don't run at 1080p low, the difference in games is mute.
You will keep it ´for now´ ?? Dude, you just bought it, lol. Cheers!
I dont there is any reason to change from 5900 (current gen ) to the Intel offering unless the difference is huge, and difference isnt that much at this time.
I prefer to make use of the parts for as much as possible based on if it is still functioning well for my needs. :)
KO with that consumption and heat? No I don't think so.
I bought a R7 5800x right after watching this review… the performance improvements aren’t THAT impressive compared to zen 3, and DDR5 is HELLA expensive. Also, my current motherboard supports the 5800x so it’s just a matter of swapping CPUs. Thank you everyone in the UA-cam tech community for helping me make a decision.
We're doing leap frog here. I'm pretty sure AMD will come up with something competitive in the next couple of months. Comptetition is good for us, the consumer. At this point it's more who you want to support and which company fits your value. I'm sticking to AMD as Intel disappointed me lately.
Going back to Intel… I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum haha.
They are beating a yr old processor. AMD has something in the pipe to answer Intel. This is reminiscent of how Intel did things when AMD was dropping launches that would edge/beat Intel, then a few weeks later Intel would answer and crush their hopes and dreams. If AMD doesnt, good on Intel, but this is looking like 2012 all over again lol.
@@jeffb7244 the last AMD I’ve had besides my 5950x, was an athlon 64. As soon as Intel launched their Conroe based core 2 quad. I’ve been on intel until 6700k. Now I’m back to AMD since last year, running my 6700k for 5 years. The funny thing is immediately I noticed a few things: games require a bit more finessing to get them run stably without any overclock in their shipped condition. Random crashes - not a big deal since this happens once every month or so. It’s when I try to wake my PC from sleep, it doesn’t. I have to hard reset the system. Besides Microsoft office, and ESET, and adobe, I don’t run any browser extensions or anything else to slow my PC down. It’s pretty much a clean PC, and my old Intel system is still rock solid, doesn’t require any finessing. However, I can’t have the same VM’s on my Intel based system as my AMD.
Right? All these click baity titles from reviewers like "ooOooOohhh wowww this DDR5/1 YEAR NEWER/HIGHER TDP IS SOOOOoooOoO much better"
Like yeah, no shit?
@@samgao i have a 2600x, installed parts, threw windows 10, set it up right the first time, no issues. /shrug
I came from a 5930x. Previous to that was a 760 and 2600k in this generational section of Intel's processors. Prior to when the icore series dropped after running a 4600+ and suffered thru a Prescott build, and was AMD before that(Athlon series), and was running Intel prior to AMD's K6-2 days. I"m a best available for what i need/using it for. After seeing this, and the Gamers Nexus vid on it, I'm waiting to see how AMD responds to it.
>Double power usage for 15% more performance
> Works only on w11. Lol.
>Has ddr5 support when ryzen only ddr4 yet
> Rzyen using the same socket for 4 generations
This is a KO for you? What the hell?
Beat Linus' review by 8 seconds lmao
5900x £480 vs 12900k £600 + higher platform costs. Can't wait for gaming benches.
12900k is pretty much on par with the 5950x in most things the cpu its self is cheaper though I can get a 12900k for £590
no its not "a KO to Ryzen" is it better improved? Definitely yes...but it is not "a KO"...bit of a hyperbole there....
Question from someone who's amazing with hardware: isn't the RAM helping the Intel CPU perform better? 12900K is running with 5200MHz versus 3200MHz for the 5900X.
Not yet, and probably not for a little while. Take a look as the cas latency on the DDR5. Until those timings come down and/or the frequency is pushed further, DDR5 is not going to stand out from DDR4. May be even worse in some cases, initially (Hardware Unboxed saw lower scores with DDR5 than DDR4 on like 3 games).
The DDR5 has way more bandwidth, but that's not going to be helpful until more applications/hardware are pushing the limitations of DDR4
I'm not really worried about having DDR5 for maybe another 2-3 years
@@TropicChristmas I did some research when I was buying my PC to see if I wanted CL14 3200, or CL16 3800, and sometimes 3800 was better, so I thought the DDR5 5200MHz would help the 12900K here.
I also just opened their video when the notification came.
Thank you for your response; much appreciated!
Ya It doesn't make much of a difference yet. Like the last poster said. Those gains are solid cpu
no AMD is more dependent on RAM not INTEL'S CPUs
New Intel Gen win against a 1 year old amd cpu, and needs more power (more than 2X) , and have higher Temps. Lol, if that is a KO.... Just wait for the 6000 series.
This is what I'm saying.
Right!
you forgot needing Windows 11 lol. Who sucked who at Microsoft
We can play the "wait for x" game forever.
When AMD launches their new thing will you say "wait for intel's response"?
@@TheAssirra we are talking of one year, not one or two months
3:13 Me too. I don't like the fact that windows 11 has such a big hit on performance in games because of their security. I'll wait and see how that goes and I'll upgrade once either they manage to fix this or if it gets too long
Finally the first video of new stuff 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼🔥🔥🔥thanks jay
Do they really though? I’d like to see a TDP normalized testing where the intels are matched with AMD’s TDP.
I'll keep my 9900k for now, but its very interesting to follow the progress of Intel vs. AMD.
That's where I'm at too but my PC is acting strange.
OMG that intertwined AIO pipe, I so want to untangle it 😅
Did intel finally pull their finger out??
Just wait until AMD delivers their new gen, they most likely at least equal Intel, if not surpassing them again :)
It's great to see Intel back. But I'm happy enough with my 5950x system. After the crazy time building this current system, I've little desire to go through it again so soon. So for me at least I'm going to skip one or two generations before building again. We'll see at that time which platform best suits my needs.
Same
I'm happy enough with my 5800x
Not everything is so simple, as shown in this video - why did he use DDR4-3200 for AMD, if he could easily use DDR4-3800, which makes it possible to add up to 10-15% in processor performance? Moreover, AMD themselves recommend exactly this (up to 4000), and 3200 is just the Jedec standard, which is indicated in the specification only formally. In addition, it is not clear why they compare 12900K with 5900X - it is unreasonable to compare only the processor price, because the cost of other components on Intel will definitely be higher. The motherboard, memory, power supply, and cooling system - all this together on Intel must meet the highest requirements, otherwise the performance will be significantly lower. So this video uses lies and dirty tricks.