Ring Racers: Overdesigning Complexity (also F-Zero)
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- A once in a lifetime exploration of the dangers of the human hubris, but most importantly BIMBO GAEMS
Music Used (ordered):
Midnight Greenhouse - Knuckles' Chaotix OST
Wings For My Way - F-Zero GX OST
U-Rays - F-Zero GX OST
Growing Wings - Nights Into Dreams OST
Electric Tooth Brush - Jet Set Radio OST
Paper Engine - F-Zero GX OST
EV03-1 Drive with Enzo - Bayonetta OST
Forest Island (unused) - Daytona USA 2 OST
Battle on the Edge - Daytona USA 2 OST
Twitch Stream ► / nitos36
Twitter ► / nitos_n
#RingRacers #sonic #fzero
My biggest issue with Ring Racers is that it feels like it's deliberately designed to hate you. This exudes everywhere in the the game. Despite claiming to be designed to reduce randomness, mechanics like ring debt, ring sting, and tumbling not only make the game unpredictability chaotic, but they often feel like overly punishing and cumbersome systems added for the sake of "depth". You can get combo'd by multiple things as once, get stuck in an uncontrollable state for several seconds at a time, and all this is only compounded if you're already in a lower position.
Everything in the game has to be unlocked, many of which only able to be done so via specific means. Even basic features like online play and add ons (what kept SRB2Kart alive for so long in the first place????) are locked initially. The rival AI cheating has a smiley face added next to it in the code, indicating the devs totally knew about it.
Even the tutorial isn't skippable traditionally unless you go out of your way to do so, and even then, you have to win a race first. (A race which tells you "Nice try" if you fail, and on launch, forced you to need to play the whole tutorial with no extra ways to skip it.) And said tutorial doesn't even do the best job at explaining things, completely omitting item functionality. (Which often will have secondary properties not obvious to players)
Ring Racers isn't designed to be a pick up and play game, and the devs seem to have intended it to be this way. However, I think this attitude isn't exactly gonna totally work out, as much of the game even now can feel like a frustrating tug of war against it as you try to fight against the needlessly punishing mechanics. I'd argue that the general game feel and controls aren't even as strong as Kart's were.
I understand what they're going for on some level, but I think the game could use some reevaluating to tone down or outright remove a lot of the overbearing punishment it currently has. I'd be lying if I said there was no value in the game, since after all I've spent hours upon hours in it. When it's good, it's really, really good. The presentation of the stages can sometimes be so good that I wish I could explore them as normal Sonic Robo Blast 2 levels. However, i can't help but be annoyed at it's confused mess of game design choices and attitude towards the casual player. I completely understand that the team has definitely been hit with a lot of negative feedback and that stuff can be quite hard on an amateur team. I also am somewhat optimistic with the fact they seem willing to try and patch the game, though even with the patches, I still don't think it's there yet. I don't wanna hold back my criticisms just because it's a fan game, because I think that Ring Racers has promise. I want to love it so badly, but in order for me to truly embrace that love, the game is gonna need some changes.
Pretty good video by the way. Well articulated and goes over a decent deal of issues with the game in a very formal way.
Have you played SRBK2 before?
@@just_matt214 What is that exactly?
@@bennascar2856 **Oh.**
Well that's aaaaah...that's the game that came before this one: Sonic Robo Blast Kart 2. This is the *third* game in a series, you're kind of expected to have like 50+ hours in Robo Blast Kart 2 *at least* before jumping into this one - and that game was *already* pretty technical, if a bit more immediate.
You basically jumped into the hyper advanced "pro" version of a game you've never played before. It's like getting into Advanced Pathfinder before ever touching any other tabletop RPG.
@@bennascar2856 SRB2kart didn't use rings, but you used drifts a lot more, and it required you to understand the map as GP races do not exist in this version just time attack and multiplayer but the pay-off for learning those maps is rewarding also ring racer is actually just an updated version of kart from v1.6 to v2.0.
@@just_matt214 You mean **Sonic Robo Blast 2** Kart. SRB1 was a 2d game, so I assure you it had no Kart equivalent. This isn't even a sequel per se, it's the 2.0 version of SBR2K.
Still, its existance doesn't really demerit the common criticism of it being way too punishing.
Riiiing racers, remember that one?
Good to know that I'm not the only one that thinks about this joke xD
Riiiidge Racer!
God, I miss F-Zero. I'm not really all that good at it, but it does so much with just the 3 main mechanics of boost gauge, attacking, and drift.
What's really commendable about F-Zero (GX specifically, cuz' that's the one I actually played enough of to have an opinion about) is that they managed to achieve this feeling of frenetic, chaotic, high-paced, arcady fun without having to rely on cheap gimmicks.
It's just you, your physically improbable death machine, and the road. The game's chaos only comes from how narrow and tricky the rows are, and from how many people there're. That's it. There's no bullshit rng, no items to screw you at the last second, no obscure, barely explained mechanics. Whether you win or lose is entirely up to you, and that's what a competitive game should try to aim for
You should check out Aerogpx
a big difference between F-zero and a kart racer is the fact that you're only focused on boost management. sonic riders is also like this. I feel like you could remove the item pool and have a much better experience because you're not diluting the pacing of each race with comeback items and just focusing on managing your rings.
Thanks for this. I thought I was losing my mind trying to pick up Ring Racers and bouncing off of it every time I tried. It felt like I was just getting increasingly upset by a death-by-a-thousand-design-decisions.
I think several of the mechanics on paper would be fine, but it frequently screams 'echo chamber dev team'. Some buttons do literally nothing in certain situations and it's sort of baffling that they'd increase the button economy instead of merge or homogenize certain functions together and try to simplify what the player might need to keep track of. You added a dedicated spindash button even though drifting while stationary doesn't do anything? Instead of add a dedicated "use our mechanic" button for ring management? "For balance" guys come on it's *your* game *you* dictate 'the balance' yourself. Design for *fun* first, not 'balance'.
And on the note of buttons, whose bright idea was it to invent a controller interface that nobody owns when showing the player what buttons to press on their controller??? I felt like I was going insane being told to press buttons that don't exist, or buttons that were actively different than the face buttons on my controller.
A lot of other problems I personally had with the game were caused by the map design. Several maps have *terrible* guidance indicators and even on repeat laps I found myself either failing to notice a turn was coming up or actively turning the wrong way because the visuals were telling a different story than the map layout. I know it might be immersion breaking but would it kill to have either fullbright arrows front and center on the turns, or use diegetic lighting to guide the player's eyes to the direction they need to go, or even some sort of Lakitu stand-in that the player could turn on in accessibility options to tell you what turn is coming up? On some maps it felt like they were designed *specifically* to troll the player, such as one of the emerald maps having a blind trick jump onto the middle of a donut shaped platform.
It persistently felt like the game was designed to be as hostile as possible towards casual players, and even after getting used to it and giving it several chances it just felt... not fun. The tutorial is the maraschino cherry on top, and when I presented the game to a friend it took them *over two hours* to get through it. They were so burnt out they didn't want to touch the game ever again. Red flag, guys. You can do better than this.
Take this with a grain of salt, but I also heard that the player ranking system, on it's own, punishes the player by constantly increasing the AI complexity of the cpu drivers during grand prix play and decreases it whenever you lose a life. And as someone who played it again and again, I am inclined to believe it simply because every time I restart the stage, I manage to get first every time.
It does, one strategy on 2.2v is to purposely fail the bonus stages so the AI level doesn't increase and it becomes more manageable to get 1st because if you don't you'll have your rival sweep to the 1st place on the final stretch of the race. Not to mention on the final lap all the AI will gain a slight boost to catch-up to you even if you aren't at 1st.
That’s awful game design I think. I won’t be surprised if this becomes a competitive problem where players are purposely throwing matches just so the AI doesn’t become William P.
Oh shit, they got that mechanic from Battle Garegga lmao. That's awesome.
What I found most frustrating wasn't the length of the tutorial. It was the fact that, ACCORDING TO THE DEVS, that tutorial was made at a time where the game was intended to be *an in-kart platformer*, and they just...never changed it. Ever.
Hence the focus on E-brake stops, jumps (but NOT tricks?!), multiple ring mechanics (but NOT ITEMS), and the melee attack feature that you can't use unless you're already running on empty...in a game that has level design where you *aren't supposed to ever be at empty*.
The only thing this has reminded me of, honestly...was Sonic X-treme.
How that game was split between two development groups, making two separate games WITH SEPARATE ENGINES, and as a result neither project ended up finishing at all.
I don't 100% agree with this video, but it's still a very well-constructed critique. Left a like. :)
Personally, I was also someone who could not stand this game at first. I've played a lot of kart racers since the 1990s, and I've competed with some of the best Switch players in Crash Team Racing: Nitro-Fueled. But this game? It just *bodied* me from the get-go and I couldn't stand it.
Yet, something about it intrigued me. I don't know what it was, but I became pretty determined to get better. I still have more to learn, but a lot of stuff has begun to really click for me. When this game gets good, it's really damn good. You compare it to "getting hit with a hammer over and over," but for me it was kind of the opposite. I wasn't just "getting used to the mechanics," I was beginning to understand and actively enjoy them.
The differences between ring items are actually quite large. Getting a BAR is vastly different from getting a JACKPOT. I honestly don't really know where you were coming from with that one. Lmfao. Like seriously, play some time trials. You're gonna want to aim for those 7s and Jackpots if you actually want an edge over the tougher ghosts.
As for items, I shared the same frustration at first, but honestly I just came to understand that they need to be used more on-the-fly. You get an item, and you need to think fast on how it can be used in the moment so you can get straight back to chugging rings. It introduces a pretty unique layer of strategy and potential plays.
All that said, yeah, I agree with a lot of people in that it absolutely feels like it was made in an echo chamber. The devs made a game "for themselves," essentially. Whether or not we like it, well... that's up to us as individuals. Either you like it or you don't. A lot of the critique is 100% fair, and we as the playerbase have every right to voice our concerns and criticisms.
The tutorial, while charming to me, was just *vile* at actually fulfilling its purpose. I'm glad the online manual is a thing now, at least, but it still would've been nice to have some more in-game explanation on things like Directional Influence, Sliptiding/Wavedashing, Tether Links, etc. There was so much emphasis on the Whip Attack, which just... does not serve much of a practical purpose in moment-to-moment gameplay.
The Rival AI can burn. I hate the Rival AI, even post-nerfs. I get what the devs were going for, but the execution is just way too extreme. I found myself having way more fun in quick races, where I didn't have to deal with any BS rivals. The CPU players can still be incredibly challenging and constantly threatening, but it also felt more manageable and strategic.
Challenges are hit-or-miss. I do think some unlocks are too cryptic, but for the most part, it came off as pretty inoffensive to me. Chao Keys and passwords do feel like a bit of a band-aid solution, but... eh. I really don't have much to say on this one.
When it comes to recommending this game to people, I'm kind of in the middle. When I talk to friends about this game, I say it like it is - both the good and the bad. If you're an experienced kart racer who's looking for something more challenging, or you're someone who loves more mechanically complex and/or difficult games, I think this will appeal to you. However, if you're just looking for a casual, easy-going racer, then stay far away from this one because you are not gonna have a good time.
How will the playerbase be affected by all this in the long run? I have no idea. Time will tell. But personally I see myself sticking with this game. There's certainly been frustration, but for the most part I've been having a blast slowly mastering various mechanics, tracks, and strats, and I know there's a large chunk of people who feel the same.
Great video. Discussion like this is fun and it's interesting to hear different POVs.
I don't know if I found myself with a comment, or with a mirror.
Tbh the more i play this game, with the insane hitstop, the energy ring meters, and how offensive items are getting introduced, the more i feel like this game was made less for racing, and more for the battle mode
Good to see someone else respects the Sonic Phantom. Great machine for speed and side attacks.
I quite enjoyed this analysis, I hope you keep making videos! The fact that the scoring system incentivizes you to hold on to rings at the end of the race really surprised me
Its not as bad as you might think, I believe the game weighs the lap bonus far more in consideration of your rank than rings, so although they certainly contribute (and it's satisfying to get perfect marks on a good race) you don't need to be holding max strings to get an A Rank, meaning you can spend a few if you need to overtake an opponent right at the end.
@@RollyPollyPal Ah okay so it works more as a first place bonus since if your lead is far enough you won’t have to use them at the end?
@@TrueBlurThat seems to be the intention, at least. I’ve had a few races where I finish the first lap in 1st-3rd and the rest at a lower place, but that first lap is still enough to push me from an E-rank to a D-rank. In the actual moment, though, it can feel kinda nebulous.
@@TrueBlur kind of. Don't know the specific but I've definitely had races where I ended with like 14 rings and still got A. The main benefit to stockpiling rings is for the GP where you can get a huge points bonus towards the UFO special stage.
Solid video, but I have some criticisms. Firstly, the rank system I feel is more designed to give you general feedback on how you're doing rather than being extra data that doesn't matter in a grand prix. It's nice in online multiplayer, as it gives consistent racers less elo loss if they get karted on the last lap.
Secondly I understand the feeling that rings are way more valuable at first, but I think the game does a solid job at higher level making you think of the value of items. Since you can pick, it leads to much more defensive play in first, as no ring boxes are in your path to get ring boost. Thus, expending rings into an item box to grab a lightning shield so you can refill whilst taking sharper lines, is a but cool way to keep speed high while making first place something you fight for.
Lastly, whilst I dislike some of the factors of ring debt, the risk reward is very interesting especially when in first, giving you access to a powerful deflect at the cost of incredible risk. This alongside the larger sense of control that ring boosting gives you by allowing you to control how strong the boost is rather than one flat value like F-zero is neat and adds depth with all the other mechanics.
I love F-zero and this game but they are two very separate beasts. The rubber banding is bullshit, but the fundamental game design is really engaging to think about. Although the skill floor is probably still a bit to high for people to easily jump in and understand.
I agree with most of your points here but I can understand their umbrage with the rank system since it's tied to a lot of unlocks in the game. It's really not that hard to comprehend though and you don't even need to fully max out both values to get an A Rank (I know S exists but I don't know if you can get it in single races or it's reserved for perfect grand prixs only)
Also the rank is pointless (not in a bad way) in online mode so like you said there it just serves as a vague representation of your performance
Note: They also fixed the fast fall bounce in which your direction influences which direction you bounce. It is still a consequence that needs to be considered when deciding to fast fall, but it makes it more viable in more places and creates some new skips that are interesting.
I think charging your slash attack should work how ring boosting works but at the cost of ring debt, it would make the attack get more use while also making for fun overtakes in places where additional rings may not be available. I also notice that in most turns there are paths you’re basically forced to take for rings which discourages taking tighter turns or simply not drifting at all.
I honestly don’t mind the complex systems in this game, they’re totally fine on paper. One major problem I have is that as extensive and drawn out the tutorial can be, the actual game doesn’t do a good job at reteaching these mechanics to the player organically. Stuff like trip sprints and dropping are rarely required until you’re at the 4th cup which I think is an issue because they’re practically required to understand in order to get into 1st place in the game.
For a kart racer, it’s a game that really ask a lot from you and it’ll make you fight for control even at it’s most chaotic. I kinda like it for trying to break the mold and an extremely unique experience, but it definitely needs a lot of refinement.
I had no idea a sequel of sort to Robo Blast Kart existed. Wow... This game looks stunning to say the least. Can't get much better than this.
If all you care about is visual fidelity then yeah it's great.
@@MastaGambit Whatever you say man
Playing about a month of ring racers, I feel like this review has some similar feelings I had pretty early on, but trust me that the systems all eventually make sense and play very well once you understand how everything works.
Yes the skill ceiling is very high and it might take some time to get everything down, but that just means once you get good enough your skill expression can let you do a lot and outplay other people consistently, and thats what makes the game feel so great.
The only thing I will say is that some of the more advanced mechanics (sliptide, triangle dash, tether) could definitely be a bit more tutorialized, but thankfully they’ve made a start by including basically everything in the ingame manual in 2.3
Jackpot gives you rings for like 20 seconds and bar and ring give barely any, I refuse to believe you cant tell the difference between them
Going online, you're impeded and harassed at every turn. You can't even enjoy going fast without an item or track hazard stopping you from progressing. It's even so bad that even the AI knows the game is BS as they slow to a crawl to let you catch up.
The only thing I love about this game is the music.
wdym "impeded and harassed"? Did you jump straight into online without practicing in single player first?
@@RollyPollyPal No, is rather common in RR for that to happen. Hell it would even happen in the more chaotic Kart stages. Even with practice and shit you will get harassed at every turn, it depends on stage too but that's a case by case scenario.
I literally skipped the tutorial on complete accident. I tried going where i thought i was supposed to, was turned around by the physics, figured that was intentional, went back to the start, saw the garage, went in, was suddenly yelled at by tails, entered the race while still not understanding what i had done, relying on "that weird ghost" to toss me "free rings", not even paying attention to the road because i was trying to understand and properly use the roulette (which i quickly realized was going to be how things went whenever i actively engaged with the roulette and immediately turned it off.), and then the race was over, i got 4th, and apparently unlocked addons and online for "skipping the tutorial" which i thought i had been properly doing up until that point.
I love the game, but I have so many issues with so many things. I do like the ring system, and I think all the controls are fine despite their absence of simplicity, but the rivals, the item balance, the continues taking away from your score, the complete redundancy of the insta-whip... well, I hope they keep getting addressed. Invincibility needs to be super nerfed, charging an insta-whip should give you a boosted tether or a speed boost at the cost of maxxing out ring debt and potentially spinning out if you don't hit another racer before you reach -20, continue penalty shouldn't exist at all, and the bonus stages would be nice if they weren't required. That being said, I super vibe with how complicated it is even if it doesn't need it, because it's the only game like this. I prefer f-zero's complexity through simplicity design easily, it's not even close, but it also feels GOOD to master these goofy ass controls too.
Making the use item and spend rings button the same button is easily one of the dumbest decisions in this game. The fast fall making you bounce is really dumb too. I also think the karts are too slippery (even compared to SRB2K, which also had pretty slippery karts), and the momentum is overtuned. You lose way too much speed going up inclines. God forbid you're stuck with 0 rings going up that big incline on the Marble Garden track. The shrink ray item is pretty annoying, but that bumper item is awful. It sends you back way too far and unlike a banana, it doesn't go away after one hit. I also have no idea why it makes the default iPhone alarm sound which makes it even more annoying. There's probably a lot of other annoying things I forgot about, but yeah. I get that the game is a labor of love that clearly had a lot of effort put into it, but I don't think that makes the game immune to criticism.
I disagree quite heavily with the idea that this game should be easy to pick up and play just because that's how other kart racers are. You're right that other games can offer challenging experiences with simple mechanics, but what they're offering is clearly different than what Ring Racers is going for. The constant spinning plates of Ring Racers, what you should be doing and how to use it's many quirks to get ahead is a core part of what makes this game so fun. It's fine that you don't gel with it as much and prefer a more streamlined approach, but I'm personally glad this game is like nothing else out there.
(Not to say the game doesn't still have issues, the rival AI can get a bit too cheeky on some tracks and it's a bit too stupid on others, especially on gear 3)
The problem with the whole philosophy of a super tough kart racer wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for one key thing.
SRB2Kart is now being abandoned.
Despite SRB2Kart appealing to MANY more people, all development on it has ceased save for some bug fixes and keeping the master server up. Even if people do not want to move across, the most active community members and racers have all jumped ship to Ring Racers, leaving the more broadly accessible game behind.
Even within my own friend group, everyone refuses to go back to SRB2Kart, leaving me on the sidelines as I just plod around in last place every race.
Yes, I can practice and get better, but it's simply not fun to do so! The mechanics are bloated and way too numerous, half the tracks feel atrocious to drive, another half of them make feel like I need to pull out an epi-pen in case I get seizure. The AI is broken as sin, Rivals literally cheat, items are unbalanced and frustrating (there is a place reserved in hell for the person who designed the bumper item), and it generally feels so much worse than SRB2Kart.
When RRR dropped, I was hopeful some stuff could be ported back to SRB2Kart and the two games could co-exist. But now the devs have made it clear that RRR is the future, and if you don't like that, you're going to be left behind.
Yeah... I'd rather just play SRB2 Kart.
The game manual itself even says that RR is *not* a "pick up & play" game.
That it's built around the more veteran players of the genre and/or long-running players from Kart to adapt.
Newbies to the whole thing will 100% have a very hard time learning the game and are absolutely free to back off or devote themselves to learn...
As someone that has played both the original Kart and F-Zero SNES, a good chunk of X and GX, the GBA titles in their entirety and F-Zero 99 up to Rank S20... Yeah!
RR isn't any different from F-Zero!
They're both very complex games that require a lot of your time to be good at by learning all of their techniques, yet, most of the time failing at applying them properly in the moment because there's too many things to memorize. 😅
And man, do I love them for that fact alone!
Of course, that doesnt mean that there isn't any issues with the games being as complex, but, that doesnt take from the overall fun in the long run!
At least, that's how I feel about it... Game is not for everyone and that is fine.
Edit side note: Also, for the time trials being an unlockable... Thats excusable since Match Race is there and its better to practice for CPU races + you can still go Free Play in the same mode if you wanted to anyways...? :0
TL;DR: Huh? What?? But no??? I disagree.
Also I think I misunderstood the ring boxes part, 'cause the difference in how long you're getting rings when you get a Jack Pot compared to hitting a Bar is so extreme that I don't know how one couldn't notice it. It's either "I've been getting rings since half the course ago" or "that was barely 2 seconds."
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I'm still shocked at how much negative reception this game gets.
Aside from some things about rubber-banding (not the items thing, the player gets the same benefits, it's just based on distance, not placement), and weird character exclusions at launch, the rest of the complaints all sound like people having "skill issues".
And this is coming from someone who has had more than the average amount of "skill issues" playing this game, I've never beaten a Special Stage on my first Grand Prix attempt, despite usually having close to 8 lives (also didn't know Special Stages were a thing until Lightning Cup). And damn do I wish practice was made available after failing the first set like they did with the second, that is definitely something I think the devs flubbed.
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One of the things I really liked about this game is that it wasn't as bare bones as a certain other Sonic Racer that the devs left for dead at launch, while also not being as extreme as other Sonic Racer with management system. All the mechanics work together (provided you aren't trying to ignore them), and the things you can and can't do at certain times all makes sense from the perspective of racing with other humans (so every point in this video about the ring system having weird balancing came off as wack to me). If I run into a mechanic I don't have a grasp on, I don't say "the devs made a mistake", but "okay I'll just learn (and not overcomplicate it in my head)".
I can agree that the tutorial wasn't good, but it gave me the basic control knowledge I needed to figure things out on my own later when it inevitably trips me up when I'm reminded it exists. And again on the learning point, for the things the tutorial didn't teach me, I just picked up on them along the way though available context clues, or trying to pay attention to it more. Though to be fair, the games I play tend to throw a tutorial at me one fight before the final boss, so learning throughout the course of a game comes more naturally.
Sorry to say but i kinda just almost entirely disagree with the video as a whole.
In my opinion my issue is that a lot of the systems people are criticizing are just things they actively refuse to understand or come around to. It’s difficult yes. But that’s not a bad thing. It’s challenging but it’s rewarding. It’s in no way comparable with being hit with a hammer.
Because the systems work, and a good deal of them do add a lot to the racing experience. And that there are maybe a few things that make the game a little rough to play. People insist on it being SRB2K not understanding that they’re not making SRB2K. Like that game is still available if you want something simple so play that. It’s not meant to be dismissive but people actively dismiss the games core gameplay and mechanics just because they want something else. And something about that just doesn’t feel right. Especially when they’ve been so forthcoming about the criticism and doing well in improving stuff that I person had a problem with, like the emerald stages and fast fall. The ring system is really fun with its risk reward idea and the trick system is so perfectly sonic and really satisfying to pull off especially when you line up good fast fall setups. The rival system is probably the biggest hurdle for people and I can get that. But the game has the opportunity to patch a lot of these criticisms into new versions. I will say tho, don’t know the beef about the bonus stages. It’s not convoluted with the game. They’re just fun breaks in between.
It’s still young and people act like SRB2K was perfect on its first go. Hell I don’t even like that game I think people overhype it. It’s a tech demo and it plays like one. It’s janky, it controls awfully and it doesn’t feel good. But that’s what people want. And it doesn’t feel right to dismiss what this game wants to do.
The game has problems but nothing about the way its designed feels like feature creep and I think people should give it a chance to cook before you just throw the whole thing out or start picking stuff off the dish with your fork. I will say if it’s not for you that’s totally okay. What I liked about this game as a person who’s not into kart racers, was that it felt like a sonic game. And some people just don’t like sonic games and especially some people don’t like Riders or F Zero GX which is what drew me in. And that’s okay. I hope people can still enjoy the game despite its hiccups and the mechanics with more going on. But I don’t think it’s fair to say that they shouldn’t be there either. It’s part of its dna. I think it has a chance.
Nah to be fair the rival ai is still pretty garbage and I'd argue it needs tweaks even after the nerfs back in 2.2. That's a genuine issue I have with the game though it thankfully doesn't really apply to online play
I think I showed throughout the video that I stuck with the game for a long enough time to properly understand the systems and what the game is trying to do, when I compare the game to F-Zero is always within the context of mechanics that don't work for me in this game but I think work in that one, I don't want Ring Racers to be a different game than it is.
I also think I explained my critiques don't come from a place of it being too difficulty or failing to adapt or "come around" to it.
Like I said way too many times during the video, I like this game! I'm a kart racer fiend, a fighting game nerd, a sonic/sega fan, and someone who loves complex videogames that take time to master, I don't think you can cast a tighter net than that, I'm extremely predisposed to like this game, which I do. I also have some problems with its design which is why I made this video. If you like the game more than I do I'm genuinely happy for you!
You claim people are dismissive of the game for being complex but seems most people don't have a problem with complex games, they just don't think this game handles complexity in a very nice way, that's what I go through over in the video, multiple people in the comments share this viewpoint.
But really it seems you're the one who's dismissing other people's opinion by casting it within this idea that they NEED to come around to it, sorry to say but no one is required to stick with a game if they're not having a good time, I certainly stuck with it cause I was deeply intrigued by it but if someone decides the game is not what they wanted it to be they're free to check out, and their opinion is not any less valid just because the game didn't click for them.
I've seen this view point a couple times and it's kinda troubling, the people who were put off by the game's design, their opinions are not invalid; and the people who checked out early cause they decided the game wasn't for them, they are also important to the conversation.
They are not "dismissing the game" they are criticizing it on very valid grounds, what you're doing tho IS being dismissive
@@Nitos_n Exactly, complex games need not be bad so long as they are well designed. From personal experience, a good example would be the F1 series of games by Codemasters.
If you look at everything the game requires of you, it feels overwhelming. Racing lines, tyre management, setup design, changing weather conditions, vehicle damage, ERS, DRS, slipstreaming, dirty air, engine damage, fuel management, tyre strategy, I could go on.
But the game is designed in such a way that you can ease yourself into those mechanics.
You're brand new and just want to drive? Here's some assists to help you out, turn them off at your own convenience! You keep getting beaten? We have a difficulty slider from 0 - 120 to customise the difficulty! Keep bashing off the walls in Monaco? We can reduce damage for you!
Ring racers, I feel, needs stuff like this. Ways to customise the experience for single player to allow people to learn at their own pace, rather than throwing you in the deep end and demanding you swim.
Lost its charm compared to SRB2K. Some things in SRB2K were flawed, but it felt forgiving and fun. Ring racers breaks your kneecaps for not knowing everything inside and out and blames you for it.
Its been said before, but for as fun as Ring Racers is, it honestly feels like it was designed within an echo chamber. The game is very fun and I'm sure for the 20 people on the planet that wanted an overly complex kart racer got their wish, but it begs the question of the game's longevity. The game already has an incredibly high skill floor to even get your foot in the door, and its only going to get worse as time goes on.
Devs stated before this game was meant to be the game they wanted to make, not necessarily the game that would attract the largest playerbase. I can respect them for that, and they are pretty up front now about the game's maximalist nature, so people have an idea of what they're in for when they download the game
This more than anything is what makes me curious, yeah. I can appreciate the devs’ intentions, and I do like some of the ideas on-paper, but as it is, the only reason I’d choose to play it over a different racer is just to have a random-ass chaotic time. There’s potential there for the game to be really fun, but if the devs stick to their guns and maintain all the game’s barriers to entry, then it’s going to have a hard time attracting new players, which doesn’t bode well.
Like, multiple commenters have said that “this was apparently the game the devs wanted to make”. And sure, I get it, I understand, I respect that. But just because this is the game they wanted to make - just because they specifically consider this to be fun - doesn’t automatically make it a winner, y’know? Sure, they succeeded at making an overly-complicated kart-racer, but if the game eventually runs out of people to play it with… well, what then?
@@SkyBlueFox1 it's definitely hard to get behind but if I do think that if you take the time to learn and respect its mechanics then it turns into a really unique kart racer experience that you can't get anywhere else. There are definitely some issues and the biggest right now I think is the rival, which blatantly cheats to the point it's turning some people off. But once you figure out how the systems all gel together it becomes a lot of fun.
Ymmv of course, I can't say this will apply to everyone, but I hated all of the systems in the game at first. I kept at it though and slowly started figuring out how to use the mechanics to my advantage; it's really not that hard to keep track of everything, at least for me. It does ask a lot of you though so I get why people don't want to invest time in it.
@@RollyPollyPal Tbh it's less my experience I think about, and more other players. (Maybe that says something about me, Iunno :U )
Like, when all of RR's bits and pieces click together, it goes hard! It's really cool when it's firing on all cylinders, pun intended. But it's kinda trapped in a limbo between "accessible pick-up-and-play racing game" and "complex in-depth fighting game". The complicated systems and lacking explanations (the manual is a band-aid, really) clash with the "silly goofy chaotic Sonic Kart-Racer" presentation. The game seems to expect people to engage with the singleplayer first before jumping online, but the whole appeal of SRB2K was jumping online and learning as you go (which is what I did with every Booster Course Pass in MK8D lmao). So I'm not entirely sure what audience the devs were going for... besides "themselves", I mean.
I dunno. I just have to wonder how much steam the game truly has. If it was a big-shot, high-budget official title, it'd be one thing; but this is a free fangame, and a somewhat niche one, at that. Are enough players gonna stick around to keep the game alive, or will all those complicated systems end up dragging the game under? It's the game the devs wanted to make, but are they willing to stick to those guns, even if it results in SRB2K outliving its own sequel?
@SkyBlueFox1 I do wonder about its longevity too, but if people want a more pick up and play kart racer, srb2k still exists. KK plans to maintain the master server for the game and mods for it will still be accepted on the message board. I agree with this stance since Kart can work as a more beginner friendly experience and those wanting more mechanical depth can upgrade to ring racers
I've been hopelessly addicted to this game but so much of my time with it has been frustrating. I always feel extremely hesitant to criticize difficult games because in the back of my mind I'm always thinking "well maybe I'm just bad." It's annoyingly all too common for anyone who criticizes a game for being unfair to be met with a slew of responses saying things like "skill issue", so I'm really grateful you made this video. I sincerely believe this game is needlessly and extremely punishing for no good reason, and it feels so vindicating to know that sentiment is shared.
I keep thinking about the first corkscrew in Sub-Zero Peaks. There are massive windows on the outside which racers will fall out of. But there's also a row of springs on the inside that will launch you out the windows. But right before the corkscrew begins, there's a column smack dab in the middle to force all the racers to either side and risk ejection. Plus it's uphill, which means going slower is more perilous and will make your steering swing harder in either direction as you accelerate.
And this isn't even an intentionally menacing-looking track; in fact, the entire thing looks way too innocuous for such a hostile turn.
The best way to handle it is to be good enough at drifting to just drift through the entire thing, and that baffles me because drifting is already its own reward, it doesn't need an unassuming track to mete out extra punishment for failure to do it.
Basically sums up most of my feelings. I do enjoy the game but it's so overdesigned with many baffling design choices. You do get used to it all like you said, but it still didn't need to be this complex. Also what you said about the tracks is true. 200 tracks is nice on paper, but so many of them are just no good or full of annoying distracting gimmicks that distract from the already insane core mechanics that I would have GREATLY preferred a smaller selection of more simple tracks. All of that being said the core racing feels great and it still has enough SRB2Kart DNA to make me enjoy it. I just wish I enjoyed it as much as the first game.
If you want SRB2K go play SRB2K. That’s not what they’re setting out to make rn and it’s just the reality of the situation. Really sucks you couldn’t enjoy the game the way you were hoping but honestly give it some time to adjust because I feel like people are really not being fair to this games systems. It’s mostly because of the tutorial I feel
The game feels like it cant decide if its trying to be a casual kart game with chaotic funny items and tracks full of timed hazards and bouncy things, or a HARDCORE competitive game with way too many mechanics punishing and encouraging different things at the same time, kindof allowing you to choose what items you want while there being a HUGE gap on how useful most items really are. Being unable to hold onto items because you need to use rings constantly, so items that are NOT speed related need to be thrown away ASAP because of slopes and shortcuts.
Im still having fun with it sometimes, its really a coin flip tho of wether its gonna be fun or just dissapointing session. Sometimes things just click together and its fun, and sometimes it feels like its demanding you to play in such a specific high-level way and nothing else.
Your kart videos actually got me into srb2kart, and I've had a similarly hard time transitioning. Playing online is a gamble of 66% odds of getting the most unfun track known to man lol.
When it works and is on a good track, it feels great, but man kart classic was much more consistently enjoyable
@@Bellitchi So SRB2K just has to eat shit instead of getting the updates and fixes it needs?
@@mechadekayes, when a new game comes out dev teams often shift their focus onto maintaining and supporting that. Kart has been out for years at this point and they already said theyll still maintain it for crucial bugfixes and keeping the master server up.
Saw this get posted on the reddit and honestly, I think this is a really well thought out video, it covers most of my issues with the game itself while having the nuance to keep in mind this game is a labor of love. I didn't even know that it took its mechanics from f-zero.
Id probably say, the most dominating factor of this game is the rival. The game has some clear issues beyond this, like the conflicting resources in the game bound to the item use/boost button, but also the trick panels that launch you in the air, often requiring you to make use of it, with a huge punishment for failing to do so, such as a very nasty tumble and relatively long stun alongside being forced out of position, versus the rewards it gives you, such as a boost of speed, access to areas, rings and also a buff that makes your drift charge much faster. That or how it feels like a bunch of the shortcuts you could take, requiring a boost to get through, often would require the boost to make it worth taking anyways
But beyond all of this...I found a lot of my problems with the troubling mechanics went away when the rival was no longer a factor, through use of a mod that lets you configure some extra settings like bot behavior. Through this, I learnt it actually gives them more than simply broken rubberbanding.
They have twice the draft power, they have access to stronger items that they normally couldn't access at their position, rings count for TWICE the boost power for them and they have roughly a scale of 11 on their top speed, where non rivals are given 10. This is on top of the fact that bots have a rubberband boost already.
When disabling or setting these features to a regular bot, while keeping the rival on, I noticed the rival was still a persistent threat and I was consistently challenged on intense, although I might not be the best player, admittedly. It still felt like a more complete game experience, where I don't need to play perfectly or waste a continue because I made a bad mistake, but bots were still a consistent threat. It even felt more baffling because the game has dynamic difficulty to raise the challenge anytime you get an A rank, but lowered when you use a continue, but the raised difficulty felt more like a genuine challenge rather than a case of frustration.
As someone who has not played the original SRB2K mod, the game feels wonderfully crafted, but feels like it expects mastery of the mechanics from the start, especially since its only after a patch that they allowed people to unlock new cups on the easier gamemodes and like you said, I agree that accessibility in this genre is a strength, especially for a game that offers such a robust singleplayer campaign. Instead, it almost felt like they were priming me to expect people with cheat clients to play this online.
I do still look forward to any fixes they roll out, but for the moment, the experience of the game with the rival set to regular parameters is honestly a much more fun experience.
Small addendum that I forgot about - They also punish saving items as having it drag behind you actually slows you down.
that last part was in kart as well and I don't mind it at all really; it deters you from the banana/shell meta you deal with a lot in mario kart, and you can just not use the item and it won't drag behind you
my personal take on it is that the resource conflict between items and rings is completely intended, and solved by another mechanic you haven't mentioned: the fact that you can pick your items. if mario kart gives you something random, it's on you to pick the best time to use it. ring racers gives you the time, place, and situation to use an item in (i.e right now) and demands that you pick the right one. sometimes that just means mashing for a banana or mine or orbinaut but sometimes it's trying to pick out a lightning shield while an spb is on your tail. pick the right item for right now, use it immediately, and get back to using your rings.
@@disgustingg This is all good in theory but the problem is that 9 times out of ten jackpot rings are just better than every single item pool when you're frontrunning. ring boosts are just too strong when you're in the midpack or even at the very bottompack
@@disgustingg In my attempts to pick an item I realise I also have to pay attention to my driving, so I just don't. The only time I found picking an item useful was in order to pick invincibility every time when I was falling behind, otherwise the items are either just a hindrance over chugging rings, or the roulette is going too fast to actually pick anything anyways
@@triggerpull9275 it's a natural form of rubberbanding without bots
if you want to frontrun you gotta earn that shit
To add something onto the part about defensive items being weak. Holding a banana, fake item or any item that is carried by dragging it behind you will actually start to slow you down after 2 seconds or so. Thats the weird sound you hear if you hold onto them for a bit isntead of letting them go immediatelly. As if a person dragging a banana for defense, unable to use rings to boost, NEEDS to be punished further for this.
I only realized this because i noticed my speed going down slowly for no reason.
Pretty sure that isn't mentioned in the (recent) Online manual at all...so yay yet another system not mentioned but that tutorial makes sure you know how to dodge a Blue shell for 5 minutes
that was carried over from SRB2Kart so if you played that you'd probably infer pretty quickly. It isn't explained to newcomers, though.
@fireair100 it does though. Banana, Drop Target, and Eggman Mark all mention that trailing them behind you will slow you down. The only one that doesn't mention this is the landmine, but if a player has read the manual it should be easy to put the pieces together and notice that the land mine is doing the same thing these other items were doing.
@@RollyPollyPal you cant drag the landmine
also the manual didnt exist until 2.3 so it still wasnt explained well
Good analysis. Personally I think the item/ring trade-off is OK but the rest I agree with. It's interesting to see how right they get some things and how wrong they get others; the half-pipe jumps are especially odd given the engine is barely able to represent what's happening on the screen properly. The good stuff is really good though, so I have hopes this game will refine down into one of the best in the genre.
the moment the devs started talking about Player expression and mixups in their devblog, I knew what this game is. I knew what they wanted it to be.
they wanted Ring Racers to be Super Smash Bros. They wanted it to be Sonic Riders. and yes, they wanted it to be F-Zero GX.
Holy fuck did you nail thing son the head for the most part. I do think that in SRB2Kart I tended to Sandbag with items a little too much and that having access to your rings does break that quite a bit.
I do have a lot of issues with it, but it's also just.. so good at what it does do right.
Yeah, despite its problems, its still an amazing game
"It was Skyrim, it was Persona 3, it was all of them!"
Ring Racers faces you with an hour long tutorial and a ton of complex mechanics, and then punishes any kind of competency by making first place a god awful place to be in. Sandbagging is so powerful it's straight up just optimal, and there is little to no counterplay to a lot of the things first place will be faced with. Jawz hit you from the front, the SPB speeds up people behind you while disabling your rings, and people in power items are going too fast to ever evade.
You lose all the benefits of simplicity, like a game being easy to learn, and you lose all the benefits of a game being complex, like it being competitive. It tries to appeal to everyone and as a result only appeals to an incredibly select group of people.
Honestly. Its kinda sad how good a lot of this looks on the surface and how frustrating a lot of the systems turn out to be. I hope they fix as much of it as possible
They won't. The devs are pretty set in their ways.
@@ultrascarlet5275 And that's fine. It's their game. They've been going at it for years. Let them have their game the way they want it to be. This player friction/frustration is part of the game's identity and charm. Mind you, though, I'm not saying they're perfect devs and we can't criticize them.
@@niconicoseri Yeah, and the way they are having the game be is actively killing it, hell SRB2K got a bump in players even after the patches not to mention the devs have not only silenced critics in the discord but got multiple OG contributors to SRB2 (yes the original game) banned permantely from the fourms for voicing negative opinions towards ring racers and not to mention the dissed OG devs on the doom legacy fourms because they, in their minds, thought they were superior devs.
Ring racers could be a good game, keyword Good, but when 75% of your stage list is absolute ass to play in specially with the conflicting mechanics that add not depth but bloat, prioritize a fanfiction over actually explaining CRUCIAL mechanics of the game in a hour long tutorial (and no, giving away the password doesn't fixed the issue it just ignores it) and overrall antagonism towards the player for wanting to race then you start to wonder why they are in constant seething when 4chan went to fix their game with their own build.
Them spending 7 years on it is not an excuse for a poorly thought out game or what Duke Nukem Forever is now suddenly good because of all the years they spent on it?
@@applewind9318 your post is heavily misinformed in several aspects:
"SRB2K got a bump in players"
as that one user demonstrated in the other comment chain RR's player count is currently dwarfing that of Kart's
"the devs have not only silenced critics in the discord"
I've heard of no such thing and what friends in the server have told me it's actually the opposite with several people being vocal about their misgivings with the game
"but got multiple OG contributors to SRB2 (yes the original game) banned permantely from the fourms for voicing negative opinions towards ring racers"
Only two people were banned, and neither of which were contributors to SRB2. Glaber was banned for overly insensitive remarks and not only agrees with his ban reason but the mods have said it probably won't be permanent. Sandwichface was banned for repeatedly harassing the devs of SRB2 and RR and generally causing drama
the rest of your post is pure subjectivity so I'm not going to touch it
Sandwichface reads to me like he wants to be an alt right grifter so fucking bad but doesn’t realize that not only is he really bad at gaslighting he underestimated that the mods know what they’re doing for the most part. The funny thing is I don’t think the alt right would claim him as /theirguy/ cuz they hate Sonic cuz they hate furries and gay people
You saying F-Zero GX is the best racing game has brought joy to so many F-Zero fans and I couldn't agree more. Fantastic video and I wish you well
Sonic Riders already had a way less flawed implementation of rings in a racing game. Sure it was less interactive, but they’re still important and it’s clear what they’re for and how to plan around them
everytime i play ring racers im constantly getting "skill issue" thrown in my face, when most races im not even fighting the racers, and more so fighting with the slippery janky mechanics of the game. this is literally a game made for the top 5% of srb2 kart players. In my opinion racing games should be easy to pick up but hard to master.
Im pretty sure this game was made to have Sonic Riders Fans feel what is like playing Sonic Riders
I taught myself Sonic Riders without watching the tutorial video until about halfway through the game
I've played this game's exhaustive tutorial, and I'm certain I don't understand the implications of many of the mechanics of it. It's something else bro
Sonic Riders is a masterpiece.
If you know the six trillion advanced techs the game never bothers telling you and are necessary to beat the campaign
It's even more complicated than riders
riders isnt nowhere near as complicated and bloated
Riders is actually not that bad.
Just remember to not charge too long on ramps, trick as much as you feel confident in (tricks always give fuel back), ride slipstreams as much as possible, and, most importantly, *don’t panic*.
Man I just wanna play a kart racer with a large selection of gorgeous-looking tracks. Why does Ring Racers has to make it into such a commitment? I admit SRB2K was getting a tiny bit boring when you're doing time trials without the other opponents and track bonuses, and it still demanded mastery from you if you wanted to unlock more tracks, but still it had a much lower barrier of entry.
This game? Ugh. The singleplayer wants me to be a tryhard at peak performance, I can't even imaging how frustrating multiplayer must be
Glad I wasn’t the only one who found it hostile to learn
I played the 2.1 version, and went though the tutorial fine (It still took 40 minutes and the trick system sucks) but when I played the first GP...it was extremely frustrating, and ended with me bouncing off the game and I haven't loaded it up to play since. Also it turns out the AI cheats even more with item use: Before the latest patch where it's only the higher level AI, they would ALWAYS perfectly use the Water and Lightning shield when you got within range every time. Oh right, also the "Accessibility" options are either minor, or outright a handicap (Like auto roulette and the Lite steer)
Ai got nerfed in 2.2, it's still a bit much but you should have an easier time now
1:07 "Mario Kart, duh."
1:17 *"WAIT, WHAT?"*
Great video!
Actually, I'm going to rant about the unlockables. I feel that they're overly cryptic in a lot of cases and they use the justification that you can just cheat to unlock everything, It shows a lack of trust in the mechanic as a whole.
Also I unlocked Jack Frost by forgetting to update the assets when I compiled a new version. That... happened.
I completely agree, I had a section on the script where I mentioned it but cut it for pacing reasons.
I actually really enjoy the unlock system in concept, but most requirements are too needlessly specific to compel me to do them.
@@Nitos_n they made the smash bros unlocks into puzzle games basically, like how the fuck are you supposed to unlock ring the racer without actively looking up a guide if you don't go on the discord
That's why they give you Chao Keys, to unlock some of the trickier challenges
@@marxxplaysgames "and they use the justification that you can just cheat to unlock everything"
The ability to skip overly obtuse content does not justify the fact that it is too cryptic for its own good. If anything, the fact that they just gave out free skips (that the game essentially tries to pressure you into using) shows a lack of trust in the quest board whilst also proving that they can't be bothered improving it.
@@ShadowXeldron Air Ride and Smash bros has the SAME EXACT unlock system and those games are universally PRAISED for it
Very well articulated video! I'm genuinely unsure if I like Ring Racers or not because it's such a fundamentally frustrating game and I really dislike how over-centralizing the ring mechanic is, but I admire it trying to be a unique thing. I sincerely hope it gets to a better place because I haven't felt this frustrated playing any game since my short stint with League of Legends.
Hearing how theres multiple mechanics that kinda conflict with each other reminds me of my struggles with my forays in (amateur) game dev. All kinds of things can make cool ideas become a hassle in practice. But if nothing else, the passion behind it shines through and I can respect that for sure
Yeah there is DEFINETELY a lot of love put into this game, the presentation is beautiful and they did put a lot of details and charm into it, they really do care a lot for Sonic and Sega in general. Noone can argue there is a lot of passion put into it. Its a huge project and they put a LOT of time and effort into it and gave it a lot of polish.
Just its really unclear what vision they have on how it is meant to be played or if they are aiming just for a competitive hardcore audience or what. The skill cieling is incredibly high but the floor is a rollercoaster full of hazzards.
The weird thing to me is how many people are getting defensive going "this game is not for you, go back to SRB2K" like mate, the playerbase is fine right now but you shouldnt tell people to leave unless you want empty servers with the same 6 people playing a month from now.
i waffle a lot on how hard i go in on it because my complaints feel like they belong in a postmortum on a failed game, not critiques of a game that actually works and i constantly have a great time with. it's like the Old Lady Who Swallowed A Fly actually managing to create a healthy, symbiotic ecosystem.
ngl a kart racer shouldn't be more complicated to play than a racing sim.
it is a niche free indie product though so I can't complain, but a lot of Nintendo's games are fun because the design breaks a genre's mechanics down to it's core fundamentals. Smash Bros removes the complicated inputs but teaches you spacing.
I feel like it's so easy to get frustrated in most of the courses because anything that you hit will get you thrown off and any speed buffwill make it uncontrollable plus combining that with ramps makes it even more chaotic, then you get last place and only get ring boxes that the CPU left behind
What I'm trying to say basically is that it's very rare to have those moments where you can go an entire lap without hitting a wall or going off road. I know that I'm probably horrible at the game but if this is a learning curve it is taking a LOT of time for me
I will say that I've come to appreciate that the game isn't so easy that you can just coast by without having to worry about external factors. I love mario kart but if you're playing single player it's pathetically way to outpace the cpu and just hold out a banana or shell and focus on running the track. Ring Racers gameplay in general reminds me a lot of online races in MK8DX which is my preferred way to play mario kart, and probably why I stuck with RR as long as I did to learn it's mechanics.
Also helps that catchup in this game is pretty good, outside of extremely rare cases where you get turbo fugged it isnt that difficult to catch back up to where you were if you use the tools the game gives you. It sucks when it happens to you right at the end of the race in sp for sure LOL but it's pretty par for the course in this genre when you play online so I don't mind it when it happens there.
Nice video ! I'm a lot more positive about Ring Racers, if only because I discovered the game like two days ago. I completely get your point tho - they're not as annoying for me as they can be for you, but I'm the exception here.
For better or worse, the game is "its own thing", not only because of the staggering amount of mechanics, but also because it deals with basics and generalities from this type of game in its own way because of them. It is the first karting race like that I played that flat-out discourages keeping items because they make burning your Rings impossible, as well as _not_ drifting sometimes being the better option compared to drift every single corner like a Mario Kart player would. Again, burning Rings during a drift to keep your speed up is the alternative here, but it's still anathema to every other kart racer out there.
Is it bad ? I don't think so. With some fine-tuning here and there, it may stand on its own merits because of the way the game deals with the basics. It's not a bad thing in my opinion, it's just different.
With that said, that overabundance of mechanics brings its own issues, namely the absolute lack of pick-up-and-play, and lack of clarity when it comes to actually explaining them.
Normally, a _free karting game taking less than 1 GB_ would be the absolute best bet for a good time with friends in multiplayer, but it is not an option here at all. You need ~45 minutes to clear the tutorial, then clear the first cup, while learning all of the little intricaties from the game, just to play online... Which is the kind of hassle I would expect from a fighting game, not an arcadey racing one.
On top of that, if you really want to understand the mechanics, not only do you have the tutorial to deal with, but also the online manual. It's barriers on top of barriers just to be able to play without blowing yourself up.
And I mean, sure, you have passwords to skip all of that, and the documentation actually provides them, but... Well, the fact that you need a _password_ for this is already saying a lot.
Honestly, as much as I like the game, it's very hard for me to recommend it, because there's just so many barriers to a clean entry JUST to be able to hit the road with some pals.
With that said... I do like it a lot. I can feel the vision behind their choices, and there is a lot of love and care put into this game, that much is obvious. I even liked the tutorial for what it was, a mini-adventure mode with some honestly cool characterization.
It's not for everyone, and... that's okay. What's there is good and can only be polished from here.
...... Some stages are a nightmare to race through tho.
This video gets to the heart of the issue really well, a "maximalist" kart racer is fucking stupid. The tutorial is 40 minutes long and the vast majority of techniques covered cant even be used on the first 30 tracks. I played the game for 5 hours and didnt even see a single trick ramp. i never had to use the spin attack because i was constantly tossing out items so i can boost uphill. I rarely went through boost gates because i didnt have the focus to be able to stop the roulette, while drifting and avoiding walls. Hell i didnt even SEE the emerald stages.
The amount of commitment it takes to see any of the "actual" content the game has is absurd, a tutorial should only show shit that is immediately relevant, thats why every fighting game tutorial is split up into optional lessons.
The tutorial is split up into sections
I think they were trying to rival tracklists like CTGP-R, but forgot that the reason that CTGP-R has such a massive tracklist is because of the community making hundreds of amazing tracks over the years
Good review! I absolutely love SRB2K and I keep hearing mixed things about Ring Racers. I haven't pulled the trigger on playing it yet, but probably will give it a shot at some point. I feel the criticism you had with Ring Racers actually applies to many fan games out there. Sometimes fan games go a little overboard with content (or challenge) instead of the quality of that content. For example, if you've ever played Mushroom Kingdom Fusion, it falls victim to many of these issues, too. Yes, it has hundreds of levels, but a good number of the levels are just not really fun at all and make the game a slog to get through due to questionable gimmicks.
I agree that F-Zero GX is brilliant. Easy to pick up, play and understand, but hard to master. It really is a shame we haven't received a follow-up to that game on modern hardware or even just an HD remaster!
The good news is that arcade racers are still a thing in indie games.
Yeah this video really sums up a lot of my problems with the mechanics man great video! My biggest issue is still the inconsistent track design though. I truly believe the vast majority of the tracks are middling or straight up bad unfortunately. It wouldn't be as big of a deal to me if SRB2K didn't have a really good average track quality...
Dope analysis. F-Zero time baybee.
Ah, someone who can explain the issues I have much better than I can. It truly feels like the devs think that more mechanics, and sub-mechanics on top of them, equal depth, when thats far from the case I think. The game is still fun but the amount of stuff you're expected to know, paired with insane Grand Prix AI and some really questionable track designs make me wonder if this really was the best they could come up with in 5 years, especially given how quickly tweaks started getting pumped out after the initial negative reception of the game
We have enough simple kart racers, this one has a lot of things to learn mechanically and I think that's fun, actually, more of a strength for the game.
It's been a long time since I've seen a kart game not be afraid to alienate some people
@@Bellitchi They put effort into the individual mechanics and the presentation, indeed. Game looks good and the core game plays just fine, but I cannot seriously believe that they played some of the tracks they designed and went "yeah this is fine" *looks at Lost Colony*.
And I don't think people should hold back criticism because "the devs put in love and effort", I think that's stupid. I understand the effort they put in I just don't think that adding a bunch of mechanics equals complexity, and that it could've been done in a better way than it was.
Really I just don't think the game does a very good job at being "complex". They try to say that it's meant to be complex but from what I've seen its either that the new mechanics entirely dominate the playstyle (like how you're encouraged to toss your items to chug rings if you're frontrunning, and just the general power of rings and boost items), or that the tracks themselves either barely require you to use the new mechanics or are designed in such a way to screw you over at every turn with spikes on the walls or in the middle of the track (which look really bad in normal stages) or something similar. To me its just SRB2kart with the chaos meter turned up to an incredible degree, so while it is a fun time it isn't terribly difficult to grasp if you've played any kart racer at all, I think
@@Bellitchi Just because they worked hard on the game doesn't mean the end product is good, because I tell you, that entire SBR cup shouldn't have made it to the game the moment someone thought Balloon world would be a good idea. Or the fact they added a hell map from Kart and did little to no tweaking for the new mechanics. Or the fact that 75% of the stages in the game have some sort of unnecesary choke point?
I'm not dismissing their work, I'm giving feedback so they can improve the game so it can become- Wait, what you mean they ban you from their discord if you give a negative opinion? Oh, well. I guess they want you to dissmiss them.
Based Skull main in F-Zero GX
Yea, between the ABSURD achievement list and the BS that is how overdesigned and complicated the game is at it's core...I just said "Where's the unlock all code" and left it at that. Also lets be honest, Nintendo didn't like the idea of F-Zero being there and hogging the spotlight so...old yeller it is.
The tutorial almost made me quit the game
I haven't downloaded the game yet so take everything I say with a grain of salt but, this kind of game design reminds me of a trend I've been noticing in a lot of newer fighting and action games. Mainly this obsession of adding more and more mechanics that all require their own specific meta in order to manage.
Just look at how the Smash Bros. games have developed over the years. The characters in the old games, despite being unique, all at least played similarly enough that if you understood one character, you've understood them all. From Brawl onwards, they kept adding more and more character specific mechanics that usually require some sort of resource management system inspired by rpgs (most of Brawl's programmers had an rpg background prior to that game). And in the case of some characters like Ryu/Terry/Kazuya, change the core mechanics entirely to the point that learning a new character required learning a new game.
Maybe that's a bad comparison since all the mechanics here are universal instead of character specific, but look at how many competitive fighting games and action games now add a bunch of additional bars and meters and charges for different mechanics and you have to resource manage all of them at once. Like, let's have a universal cancel on every attack that completely undermines the risk/reward factor of light/heavy attacks but in order to "balance" it let's add a completely new meter that drains every time you use it and if someone finds a crazy exploit with it, let's give it a cooldown bar to balance it further.
It's what I like to call TCGification. Sure it might add its own complex metagame to a game that's already meta, but adding meta to meta doesn't make a game more meta, it just raises the skill floor, which is an issue a lot of long running TCGs face.
I definitely get where you're coming from, yeah. I'm not sure it's 100% applicable - to me, it definitely seems more like plain ol' feature-creep - but the *feeling* is still very real. More than anything, though, I think the issue is that all these mechanics *sound* cool, but aren't actually all that fun to *play*.
Rings are a cool idea on paper; they're an interesting cross between Mario Kart and F-Zero, which is a niche that could give Ring Racers its own identity. But you need to use a lot of rings to get any noticeable 'Boost'... and then again, you also don't want to use a lot of rings. Because when you don't have any rings, your kart feels kinda bad to control (especially on Gear 1, the lowest speed/difficulty).
Those Ring item boxes are interesting on paper, but they're not explained at all. I literally didn't know about Ring Supercharge until watching this video - up til now, I assumed that the ring boxes just kept replenishing your stock, so you could use your rings freely for a short period of time. The fact that ring boxes automatically boost you is completely unintuitive, and explains why I sometimes felt like I went out-of-control.
Tricks are a cool idea on paper; they fit very well with the Sonic theming of the game and being able to trick in different directions is a neat idea. But in-practice, they kinda break the pacing, and you should almost always be tricking forward like a sensible person. Tricking to the left or right rarely comes up (and when it does, it doesn't feel good at all track-design-wise), and the punishment for failing the trick altogether is way too harsh.
Speaking from a writer's perspective, leaving shit on the cutting-room floor always feels a little crummy. When you have cool ideas, you don't want to just abandon them or give them up. But if you try to write a story in such a way to implement all those cool ideas, the story can get very wonky, very fast. And I feel like that's definitely what happened to Ring Racers.
I'm a big fighting game player and I definitely see what you're saying relating to mechanics and meters.
I actually have notes for a video about the design of Guilty Gear's tension bar (in +R and XRD), and how it's such a concise and elegant system that does everything in those games. Hope I can get around to that video soonish
@@SkyBlueFox1 I'm not sure how applicable your last sentence is to this game, but in a vacuum I can definitely say you're very right. Throwing away finished work when you realize it doesn't work for what you're building is deeply hurtful, but it's often needed in most arts or creative fields, honestly it's a skill of it's own. In game production a lot of things you bring with you from planning stages is just gonna end up not working, there's too many variables to account for, you need to be ready to reassess and throw done work away, that's why being smart with prototyping and design docs is really useful
@@Nitos_n Those are fair points, yeah! Honestly, even writing is like that, in a sense - there's been more than a few times where I had to drop a cool idea from one chapter/story, then having an epiphany and re-implementing it in a later thing.
I probably didn't word it the best, but my point was mostly that it seems like Kart Krew were really invested in including all these cool ideas, regardless of how relevant they were to races proper. It's why the tutorial stands out to me so much - it puts so much attention onto cool ideas that then barely show up in actual gameplay. People seem to avoid the Instawhip like the plague, for instance, and the whole "boost back and forth in the half-pipe" bit is like... the only instance of that happening lmao
I see the idea, yeah. One particular game that comes to mind on the first-person shooter scene is Doom Eternal - really good game, don't get me wrong, but it's also filled to the brim with mechanics on top of mechanics on top of enemy design that require using mechanics in a certain way. And if you _don't_ use them, you're not getting far. Especially considering that the basic resources have very much been gimped to make sure you do - for example, ammunition is always very scarce even on the endgame _because_ they WANT you to change weapons, and they WANT you to use the Chainsaw mechanic to refill your ammo once you're dry.
Once it clicks, it clicks, and combat when mastered is among the best you can get, but it's still... A LOT to take in, let alone to learn. I'm like, physically drained after a level.
And there is also the risk of them going too far. For me, that point was in the DLC, where certain weapons combos are just flat-out required to take down certain enemies, because they're flat-out invulnerable to anything that is not their weakness.
I get the same kind of feeling with Ring Racers, although maybe not to that extreme. It's a hodgepodge of mechanics you need to get the hand of, that sometimes interact weirdly with the game itself, and while it is fun once you do get the hang of it, it is... A lot.
I totally agree with the rival system, it feels like I'm racing only one person. The only time I feel like I'm running against the other racers is when I get hit by tons of answers. The map variety is lacking and having ring use and item use is the same button is weird.
*hit by tons of weapons by other racers
Are you by any chance a fan of the fastest, most punishing racing franchise in the history of Nintendo?
did ya try learning "wave dashing" no i am not joking. i can rocket jump in tf2 so fast i take damage with no momentum but even i can't understand how the fuck to use most of the mechanics properly.
yeah even in the wiki it's worded weirdly, you need to go really fast to even have a chance at triggering it anyway, it happens every now and then on it's own but I don't actively think about it while racing.
wiki.srb2.org/wiki/Dr._Robotnik%27s_Ring_Racers/Mechanics
I've seen people refer to wave dashing and slip tiding intermittently as both the same thing and different things so I don't even know, also bonus point for naming it after a fighting game tech it behaves or performs nothing like, me when thing from game I know, pog.
The advanced mechanics are weirdly designed too but I choose not to go into that cause I'd get even more people telling me I'm only criticizing it cause "I don't understand" or whatever
@@Nitos_n Wave dash is when you're charging a drift and go off a ledge. If you let go of your drift in the air, that boost makes you go down instead of foward, which is the wave dash. I've never found a decent reason to use it imo, but it's there.
Absolutely no clue how to sliptide at all... I've kind of done it on accident a few times, but I don't understand it in the slightest.
@@sauvagess what you described is not the wave dash, it's a triangle jump, which takes its name from the Marvel vs. Capcom series
You know i dont even like sonic that much and i havent played racing games seriously in YEARS, i started playing since..... 2.2? AND I LOVE IT, every second of it. But after the glaring faults of the game im starting to doubt if its really that good. ill wait for more updates and hopefully in a year or two becomes a more refined racing game i can enjoy with my friends
Don't let people being critical of something you enjoy hamper said enjoyment. If you personal take issue with anything in the game that's a different story, but you shouldn't need to question whether or not you're actually having fun, only you can really decide that for yourself.
Very good critique, i've been enjoying the game myself but I can definitely feel that some parts probably could've been trimmed or adjusted a bit to make more sense. One thing that's kind of struck me so far is just how overpowering some of the items are compared to others. Like you mentioned invincibility but even the grow item feels like it can take you from 8th to 1st with relative ease and it's sometimes the only way I do manage to win since the rival AI literally goes so fast that even racing at my best doesn't catch up to them.
I'm glad other people recognize that GX is the greatest racing game ever made, and that NOTHING ELSE IS EVEN CLOSE.
This video was very well thought out, and i agree with most of it (besides the bonus stages i really like how they break up the pace of a cup). I hope ring racers doesnt get shafted because i think the devs could potentially improve the game a lot and make it truly surpass srb2k. Once again, great video!
I really hate that you can't map acceleration without mapping confirm as well. Goddang it, I just want to use the triggers as the go fast button, not the accept button.
I've gotten used to the difference between the 4 ring box states and while there isn't that big of a difference between each tier, the difference between BAR and JACKPOT feels Massive, Jackpot is worth going for every time and you can definitely see it be put to good use in the time trial staff ghosts. Some of the games more esoteric idiosyncrasies are somewhat lessened by the Devs adding the Game Manual with V2.3 but it certainly is the Fighting Game of Kart Racers ( Which given the Devs Taste in Music and Sound effects Makes sense). This was a Good Video.
Hey man great video, I agree with most of your points and I really think this game would have greatly benefited from a more focused design philosophy, if it steered away from its mario kart roots (item system) and fully embraced its momentum physics and ring system it could have been one of the most unique and interesting racing game out there.
Though it's still a very interesting and rather enjoyable game it definitely shoots itself in the foot with overcomplexity and clashing mechanics which in turn clash with the basic minimalistic design philosophy of arcade racers.
All of that makes me quite frustrated because it clearly has a lot of potential.
Also F-Zero GX is indeed the best racing game ever made thanks for spreading the word!
What's the song at the end btw?
the song is "Battle on the Edge" from the Daytona USA 2 OST, I went ahead and added all the music used in the video description
@@Nitos_n Thanks man
very nice and well thought out video
The one mechanic I REALLY like is the balance between using your rings as a boost or using your item. It prevents the whole "hold on to the good items until you're in first place" that Mario Kart has by replacing it with an even more skill-based mechanic instead of trying to prevent people from doing it at all. Sure, you can hold on to invincibility in first place, but now you don't get ring boosts, so you won't stay in first very long. I wish Mario Kart let you use coins this way.
I wish the tutorial highlighted this mechanic or 2 or 3 other meachnics and kept the game that simple instead of putting 100 good ideas in the same game.
There is also a lot of advanced techniques that wasn't mentioned in a tutorial like the Triangle Dash, Sliptiding, Wavedashing etc. Luckily there's an online manual that was recently released
Ring Racers is the kind of game where you hate that it sucks because of how much time and effort they put into it so you only get to know after it comes out that the foundation all that work is built on is severely flawed
As a matter of fact, I would love to hear your rant about the tutorial.
The game is just hard to follow the pixels on screen make it annoying to keep myself in frame.
I distinctly remember reading a comment from somewhere elsewhere that described Ring Racers as a “fighting-game kart racer”, and I think that phrase is very fitting. I’m not much of a fighting-game person, and while I enjoy playing Ring Racers, it’s always in-spite of its mechanics, not because of them. No matter which character I choose to play as, there’s always moments where I can’t drift tightly enough or brake hard enough to stop myself from zooming off a ledge, and some of the tracks are too riddled with hazards for their own good.
(Gear 1 also just plain sucks, delete it from the game immediately Kart Krew)
It’s frustrating, because again, it’s clearly got a lot of heart and love put into it. But for a casual player, it’s just kind of a chaotic mess. A fun mess, but still a chaotic one. The feature creep is real.
It sounds like you'd really enjoy the original Sonic Robo Blast 2 Kart way more than Ring Racers honestly.
Seeing the Sonic community hype up what feels like a really below average kart racing experience when we have the other big name mascot racers in mind and also DRRR's predecessor just feels really really off. Even worse when you remember that when the game first came out you actually had to unlock Multiplayer.
Excellent video. Haven't played Ring Racers myself yet, but I suspected it was very overdesigned from what I've seen. A bit of a shame, but I'll still give it a whirl.
Just starting and the quality here is already very high. Keep up this kind of stuff and this channel is definitely going places.
I'm still wondering who had the brilliant idea to desing racing tracks like platforming levels
I'm a simple guy: I see someone recommending F-Zero GX, I like
Yeah, they definitely overcooked the game. I love it to bits (especially after the patches), and I even forgive the items and rings being on the same button (so you can't hoard items, use 'em or lose 'em), but hooo boy it's got maybe just a bit too much going on. And the Rival AI can often be completely absurd.
The fact they hint you towards playing as Metal Sonic early on, when he's one of the hardest characters to learn, is also a bit of a problem. I started placing a LOT more consistently once I switched to Knuckles (the all-rounder).
I think after another few months of patches, the remaining kludge will be toned down to reasonable levels though. Already it's down enough that I'm actually able to start hitting emerald stages. :P
Hey I really liked the video also F-Zero goated. Just wondering if you have any thoughts on Sonic Riders?
I haven't played enough Sonic Riders to have strong opinions on it but what little I've played I vibed with it, it's a cool game
To me, srb2k is like a sandwich. Simple, good, and with mods(toppings) , you can tweak it to your prefrence (like slipstream, tricks, characters, modes etc etc) while ring racers feels like a buffet with random shit in it. Some of it is really good, and has a lot of depth, some of it is anchovies mixed with chocolate pudding. Never once would any normal person would want that. What i mean is that srb2k (gonna short it to kart) is simple, but theres depth, like breaking while drifting, sharp boost turns, etc etc. Its got depth if you want it, but its not nessicary to have fun or even beat the tracks. RRR feels like chaos incarnate in a bad way. The game by default has slower and more slippery controls to make up for the 1000 different mechanics added for who knows why. Rings, drop dash, spin dash, directional tricks etc etc while on paper sound cool as hell, i dont think they were implemented well (personal opinion alert) like rings being nessicary to get through parts of certian stages, the spin dash being extremley situational ( and has a similar function as the rings and sneakers) and just overall feeling odd to play especially if youre used to kart or any other kart racer. The solo content is wonderful, and its what the og kart needed, im a bit disappointed its all in this new game that feels worse to play (again, to me) but its nice to see how much effort and care was put into a sonic fan game of all things. I hope they add mods to take away the weird new mechanics because i really really want to play this game but i just dont like how it is mechanically. Everything else about it is fantastic though
I get this is"the game the devs really wanted to make" but that doesn't magically make it a good game or exempt from criticism and to think otherwise is some weird blockheaded and almost parasocial mindset lmao
To me, The ring mechanic (among others) is like the racing game equivalent of getting school lunch but the lunch lady stops you and tells you you have to get a fruit. I didn't want that fruit. I'm not going to eat that fruit. Why do I HAVE to get a fruit if I know I don't like it and I'm not gonna eat it? What's the point? Srb2k didn't make me get a fruit. Screw you robotnik and your stupid little ring racers
I never made the comparison of the rings acting as a boost healthbar
To me, it seems like a lot of these features would benefit from being optional settings, at least in single-player. Stuff like the rivals and ring system don't seem like integral mechanics to the gameplay but rather a extra win condition that yes, can be fun to some but really frustrating to others who might just want to focus on the other mechanics. The player should have the option to be overwhelmed.
you can make a simple game and have depth and complexity. ring racers just feels like some kid who saw all these tech in his favorite games competitive scene and wanted to intentionally apply it to srb2kart. when you design a game around tech and competition, the magic of the learning curve disappears because everything is forced onto you so there is no natural learning taking place.
just to clear any misunderstandings, i dont think its hard. it is poorly executed but the mechanics are awesome, just wish it wasnt so in your face.
Also this game clearly is anti defense for frontrunners since hollding items behind you SLOW YOU DOWN, and your ring boost is inaccesible until you drop it. why did they make everything the same button
They did that because one of the items is a ring magnet
13:42 They were always weak even in SRB2Kart since holding a defense item behind you actually slowed you down after a couple seconds if you didn't get rid of them. they wanted you to think about when to activate your protection
WHY IS YOUR TEXT JAPANESE I NEED THAT DKEBSND
it's an in-game unlock, I believe you get it by watching the credits
Now that aero GPX is out us fzerbros can finally eat GOOD
"out".
Its still in early access. The paid game only has 2 cups as of now, compared to the demo which only has one cup. The basis for it is already very polished, but the game is nowhere near complete....
Looking at the game from the perspective of someone familiar with the community, it seems like the courses they provide are mainly there to act as demos for how modded levels should be designed. They force you to interact with every mode in some fashion, so there's a baseline for what a decent Ring Racers level of every kind looks like. Once the mod scene kicks off, this game is probably going to feel a little less insane.
My main issue with the game isn't even really any of the things that you talk about here. It's that you can't skip any of the dialogue in the opening cutscene and it locks both the setup and the game itself behind getting through the scene. It's the one part of the tutorial you still can't skip, and it's agonizingly slow.
You actually can. I think it's down? I know it's *a* button and that you can do it. Why it's not on accelerate or the tutorials advance text button is strange tho
I can't with this game. This is feels like a way to0 complicated wacky party game that you shouldn't take seriously with extremely punishing grading systems that force you to take it seriously.
My biggest issue with Ring Racers is the fact that it has all these issues when SRB2Kart already exists and doesn't have these issues and is consistently fun, but they fixed what wasn't broken and now we have this. I don't think anyone would have been mad if we just had SRB2K 2.0 with more tracks, characters, and a single-player mode. At least SRB2K still exists, but the fact it won't get any more content in favor of this makes me a little disappointed.
This game has a lot of gimmick bloat and bizarre design choices for sure, but the problem is when you remove most of the garbage from the game, there's not really much to justify its existence when Kart is already a thing. Basically, just go play SRB2K.
Ehh. I never clicked with Kart the way I clicked with this game. RR was frustrating to get used to at first, but I found myself hooked with it far more than I ever was with the predecessor. What you call "gimmick bloat" I call "mechanical depth" and what you call "bizarre design" I call "interesting and unique tracks." Don't get me wrong, the game has flaws, and I'm not excusing all of them, but it sounds like you're lumping the flaws AND the subjective preferences together.
The phrase "when you remove most of the garbage there's not much to justify its existence" is inherently kinda paradoxical if you think that _the very things fans of the game find appealing_ is garbage, because those ARE the things that justify its existence. Feel free to not like the game if you like, but "when you remove the appeal from the game, the game has no appeal!" is the Captain Obvious statement of the year.
This game is a case study on feature creep, like legit I should present this in a classroom
@@lobsteros Most people just want a fun kart racer, and SRB2K was already that, no need to insert 700 different game mechanics to try and add what they think is depth. The point I was trying to make is that if you turn DRRR back into SRB2K, the game has no reason to exist because SRB2K is already a thing. The elements of DRRR that most people find appealing are the elements that were already in Kart, and yes, what is "fun" is technically subjective, but in game design your main goal is usually to try and make your game as fun as possible to as many people as possible. I pretty much see no one outside of the KK Discord praise this game (or if they do it's with a whole lotta asterisks), and even there I've seen conversations get pretty heated about some of the game's more questionable decisions.
@evdestroy5304 you must be looking in the wrong places because I've seen plenty of praise for the game all over, be it youtube, twitch, twitter, or other discord circles outside the kartkrew. Believe it or not, there *are* people who are enjoying this game and find it fun, and the complaint about there being asterisks is silly because every game has problems (even kart) and you don't need to 100% jive with every single thing in a game to still consider it good
@@evdestroy5304 I guess you don't realize how silly the sentence "if you turn DRRR back into SRB2K, the game has no reason to exist because SRB2K is already a thing" sounds.
Because yeah, and if you turn Sonic the Hedgehog back into Super Mario Bros, then Sonic has no reason to exist because Mario already does. What a redundant and pointless thing to say. Like, sure, that's technically true, but it doesn't matter because Sonic ISN'T Mario! One was inspired by the other, but they're different games with their own appeals. More options existing for people with different preferences is a GOOD thing, no?
Likewise, Ring Racers is NOT SRB2 Kart. It's a different game with its own appeals, and it's the game that Kart Krew wanted to make, not just "SRB2K but again." There's a reason they changed the title to sound completely unrelated to the predecessor: they wanted this game to perform based on its own merits, not based on its connection to Kart. And good thing they did, because it's opened up the game to a whole new audience, while deterring people from expecting it to be just like its predecessor... well, not entirely deterring that, clearly.
If you haven't seen any praise for this game, where the heck are you looking? (And I don't read the KK Discord, so no, I'm not talking about there.) I mean, even here on UA-cam (not like "being a UA-camr" somehow makes your opinion more important), if you search "Ring Racers," most of the reviews you'll find are very positive, including one literally titled "Ring Racers is Kart Racing Perfection." Bold words, not even I'd go that far! But even THIS uploader whose video we're commenting on, which is pretty harsh on the game, ultimately skews positive and is recommending people give the game a shot.
While there was some controversy at launch over some easy-to-fix issues that were quickly patched, nowadays, I can't say I see many people COMPLAINING anymore, if anything. I'm not gonna deny the complaining still exists, though; I'm probably just not looking in the right places to find it. But if that's the case, it goes both ways: clearly you're not looking in the right place to see all the praise.
And unlike a game company, it's not like these hobbyist fangame developers NEED people to click with their game in order to sell it. It's free and a labor of love! They made it this way because they think it's fun this way, and clearly there's a large number of people who agree.
I, for one, have literally never enjoyed a kart racer more than Ring Racers. Not SRB2K, and not even any of the eight Mario Kart games. I've also been enjoying it alongside several of my own friends who have gotten as addicted to the game (specifically this game, not SRB2K) as I have. So tell me, what do the words "a fun kart racer" even mean? Because if you asked me, this is the game I'd point to first.
FUCK that one I’ve level with a Buch of bumpers everywhere
What the fuck were they thinking
port to Sega Saturn 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Personally, my main issue has been with the Rival System, considering how blatantly the AI can cheat, even when the rubberbanding was toned down in 2.3
Even on Relaxed, I still sometimes have the win stolen right in front of my nose and at times, it seems as if the Rival doesn't stop pulling ahead once it is out in front. Even with the boost/invincibility items it can be tough to catch up.
Still, after playing it for a while, although also having some experience from several kinds of racing games, both arcade and simulation, it's been a blast. There definitely is a sizable learning curve to get a grip on the mechanics, so I can see why people would have grievances with the game, but from what I've seen, the devs seem accepting of feedback and do tune down things, such as changing the trick system to requiring you to let off the throttle to execute the tricks, to prevent accidental tricking. Then again, that does require re-learning to a certain degree.
As for the unlockables, personally, I don't wanna use the keys to cheat unlocks. Only did it once to show a friend how things worked, among other features of the game and I got them interested enough to give it a spin.
I really do feel that the positives outweigh the negatives and I trust that the devs will keep working on refining the game to ensure that new players stand a chance at learning the intricacies and chasing those victories offline and online.
I've been enjoying Ring Racers a lot so far and have even been getting somewhat better at it with some practice and implementation of some of the game's more advanced mechanics such as triangle dashing and sliptiding. That said, I'm also at the point of the game where I'm starting to feel a gradual decrease in average track quality and how many of those same tracks don't mesh very well with a lot of the game's systems, particularly how they've been taught BY the game through the tutorial.
I remember at one point someone saying that it felt like some of the tracks were made as SRB2 levels first and racing tracks second, at least along those lines, and while I've enjoyed most of them, I can definitely see where that sentiment comes from, especially now. Marble Garden and Carnival Night, for me personally, are some of the worst offenders in that regard, though I think the S3&K tracks in general have been some of the weaker ones in my current time playing it.
I think an issue with some of the track design is that it sometimes feels like you NEED to master the more advanced mechanics on TOP of all the basic ones to have a CHANCE at a consistently fluid experience or else you'll be making awkward turns/manuevers to just survive. I absolutely don't mind tracks rewarding high-level play (that's just overall good game design sense) and even tailoring some parts for that. I think there's enough tracks that don't focus on it TOO heavily for the game to still be fun and engaging outside of just trying to learn and best it out of spite, but as is, the ratio of fun to miserable leans closer to the latter more than it should, even if it doesn't outweigh the former.
One other thing I'd like to add is that as long as the tutorial is, I still wish it did a better job A. actually discussing and teaching mechanics like sliptiding and triangle dashing and not just making you refer to the manual as well as B. better showcase ways in which the various mechanics it DOES teach can be synergized with each other. Some of this DOES come naturally with practice and just playing more of Ring Racers, but it still leaves a considerable amount of things to be desired from the tutorial.
Even after writing this message, I'm still looking forward to playing more Ring Racers, taking in both its presentation, aesthetics and whatever trials it throws at me, but it's definitely becoming a little harder to ignore its issues and this video does a solid job explaining them.
I actually like how rings were implemented. You have to choose between the consistency of ring boosting versus the potential of good item use.
hi utena
surely you mean Edt. Nitos, they edit the videos you see (I love Utena it's like my favorite piece of media)