Read our webcomic Fractal Fables for free: www.webtoons.com/en/canvas/fractal-fables/list?title_no=999212 The first five episodes was uploaded daily from the 13th up to the 17th of November. The rest will have a varied upload schedule of a weekly to monthly basis until the first season is complete. I hope you guys enjoy it.
Care to explain the discrimination and transphobia at 29:16? Accepting and respecting gender identity isn't some socialist/communist/bureaucratic dystopian belief.
Capitalist Dystopia is more "human" than Theocratic Dystopia btw. Theocratic dystopia pays more lip-service to the human experience than the Capitalist dystopia, but in actual practice it oppresses things such as aesthetic, desire & vitality into nothingness. It grinds everything to a rigid halt in much the same way as the Bureaucratic dystopia, except through non-secular means (in fact, the Theocratic & Bureaucratic are mostly the same dystopia; the only difference being their secularism or lack-thereof.) Ascetism/Restriction is the ultimate ideal of both worlds. Capitalist dystopia focuses less overtly on the human experience, but manages to keep it intact and even push it to extreme boundaries. Cyberpunk worlds are full of adventure, beauty, anarchy, intensity, ambition, the highs & lows of life etc. Mega-Corps are even 'pseudo-feudal' if you will, a sort of pale mimicry of the houses that would arise in a Warrior Dystopia (IE. the "most human" of all dystopia).
Capitalist Dystopia is more "human" than Theocratic Dystopia btw. Theocratic dystopia pays more lip-service to the human experience than the Capitalist dystopia, but in actual practice it oppresses things such as aesthetic, desire & vitality into nothingness. It grinds everything to a rigid halt in much the same way as the Bureaucratic dystopia, except through non-secular means (in fact, the Theocratic & Bureaucratic are mostly the same dystopia; the only difference being their secularism or lack-thereof.) Ascetism/Restriction is the ultimate ideal of both worlds. Capitalist dystopia focuses less overtly on the human experience, but manages to keep it intact and even push it to extreme boundaries. Cyberpunk worlds are full of adventure, beauty, anarchy, intensity, ambition, the highs & lows of life etc. Mega-Corps are even 'pseudo-feudal' if you will, a sort of pale mimicry of the houses that would arise in a Warrior Dystopia (IE. the "most human" of all dystopia), which lends credence to them being closer in proximity.
40k is so much more than a theocracy. The state church has great power, yes, but so does the military and the aptly named Administratum. Mechanicus is a parallel theotechnocratic society. If anything, humanity in 40k is characterised by having a relatively weak merchant class, although the rogue traders might be inclined to disagree.
Approximately 90% of all the voidcraft with interstellar capabilities in Human-controlled spacea are merchant ships. The merchant class is thriving and numerous.
The 40 lK imperium of man is a constructed worst of all possible worlds at once having an orgy. It is mostly fascist, but not afraid to borrow from other bad systems.
@dansmith1661 The Hunger Games regime is supposed to be fascistic capitalism; there is no ideology of class abolition, there is quite literally a class of wealthy people which is not only ideologically justified by the government but celebrated yearly with child sacrifices
@@dansmith1661 There's not that much work to do when it's all automated with machinery. Part of advanced capitalism is keeping the people from over-producing so that once the rich take all they want, there is nothing left over for the poor.
@@dansmith1661 people do work in the Hunger Games. The main character is kind of pissed that her mom won't get a job after the dad died, so Katniss has to take care of Prim and her mom...They are told to worship the state. The guy from the District 2 talks about bringing glory to his district.
@@FMJIRISH Socialism, also known as Economic Collectivism/Statism or Command Economy, is when the State -in the name of the "public"- officially owns most or all of the means of production and industries, and centrally conducts the planning of production and the allocation of resources/commodities/goods/services across the citizenry, instead of an unregulated price system and civil market participants spontaneously carrying out these functions in a mostly privatized economic climate. So the totalitarian Panem government technically fits the academically accepted definition of Socialism as exemplified by the real-world USSR.
"Ethics removed from war with the Prussian's invention of total war" You mean the French with the introduction of levée en masse and modern industrial war. Prussian military reforms took their cues from ol' Boney. (and so on) I recommend JFC Fuller's The Conduct of War 1789-1961 on this subject.
How do you know if your deed is good? The immediate outcome? The long term downstream outcome? What about a deed of evil intent that saves lives? Utilitarian (outcome of the action) ethics really gets fuzzy when we look at actions that are good on the short term, but long term, down stream, indirectly cause immense harm. If for example I save someone's life, but that person becomes someone that deleted a large number of people, then in totality, my action made great horrors possible. But in the short term I saved a life. The long term, indirect, and big picture makes things more complicated. "A good deed" is questionable, was it an action that itself was good, or the outcome? Bender attempting to fill in as God kept trying to help the small people living on his metal frame, but the more he did the worse things became. When he asked the huge giant computer if what he did was right the cryptic response was "right and wrong are only words, it is what you do that is important" which is true but does not really answer the question. Furthermore, it is implied but not stated that Bender was sent back with the experience to free the Monks from the laundry closet. The point is "good deeds" can have horrible consequences. Horrible deeds can cause more good than harm, even if by sheer accident.
I find it interesting how so many dystopias are masked as Utopias. I also find it interesting how the Utopia mask is completely reliant on the dystopia underneath in order to exist.
Utopia is greek derivative word meaninf "no land" so when you try to preach for reaching something that is not there - you waste somebodies else reources until everythibg rots..
@@NIGBEATSUtopia is an impossibility and always will be. Therfore every attempt a Utopia will always end in a Dystopia. Humans are flawed and imperfect beings and the imperfect cannot create perfection.
Brave New World In most dystopias, dissidence gets you killed. In Brave New World, you are shipped off to an island with other interesting troublemakers, where you cannot affect the larger society.
I just had a realization. We never see anyone or anything go to or come back from the island. For all we know, the island could be propaganda. Similar to how a dog goes to "live" on an "up-state farm"
@@alongfortheride1016 Lol, you are so right. However, since the state has such a monopoly on violence, I assumed they didn’t feel threatened by a small and secure island of dissidents. Like how they treated people on the reservations. Rather, I saw the island as more of a startup incubator for new ideas or technologies. Which the state could later assimilate into the larger dystopic system if deemed useful.
FR Socialist Dystopia for Hunger Games? Where there's a literal ruling class oppressing worker classes in various districts producing the capital goods? Words are literally meaningless and ragebait is all that matters. Gross.
@@Mentallyheld The state being expensive and hedonistic doesn't make them capitalists. It uses its absolute state-given power to extract wealth from the peasants to fuel itself, no matter what the cost is. Its control that's being exerted to get more control and buy hedonistic pleasure , not a big capitalistic monopoly profiting of whatever possible product to amass wealth.
@@Mentallyheld Because the Soviet and Maoist bureaucracies never ever engaged in the purchase of expensive luxuries and hedonism while they were in power right? U do know that Mao Zedong himself literally had a harem of women that he would pleasure himself with whenever he wanted to? Man u people are really ignorant of communist/socialist history hey....just because u establish a socialist society doesn't mean that money suddenly disappears .....or do you think that communist countries just burned all their money when their revolutions finally succeeded? Do u think they stopped having an economy or stopped engaging in international trade or stopped developing technology or stopped buying and selling things? By your logic then, even a medieval or feudal monarchy would be capitalist because the King wears an expensive crown made from gold and precious gemstones and the finest robes.
@@ShadowKueken these people think socialism = money and materialism ceases to exist.....its hilarious to see actually, how so many people speak of communism/ socialism but don't actually know what it is and that what happened in the Soviet Union, Maoist China etc was in fact real communism that existed within its various schools of thought i.e Marxist Leninism, Marxist Maoism, Marxist Agrarianism ....but they will flip flop and and try to move the goal posts with phrases like "thats not real communism" forgetting that even Marx himself lived quite a luxurious and privileged life since he belonged to the upper class of his day
@@dmfaccount1272 I can't afford to do cocaine while skydiving off a floating bus like the uber rich of today but that doesn't mean I can't afford some cool stuff. I'll certainly take being lower class in cyberpunk over living in District 12 from the hunger games or living in the Imperium of man.
@@dmfaccount1272 In practical terms it makes no difference if the wealth split is larger given how large it is now, its like the difference between swimming across one ocean or two. Right now you can afford the base level consumer stuff, maybe something a bit nicer if you have patience and save up. Cyberpunk is about the same in how it depicts the average person.
No. Hunger games is colonialism. Just because all dirstricts once belonged to the same country doesn’t mean that they aren’t colonised by the capitol. That’s like saying the US was part of england and thus not a colony. That’s like saying senegal wasn’t colonised by the friench because they were under the same government.
"Colonialism. The exploitation of people and of resources by a foreign group." Whether you are exploited by a big foreign company or another nation, it would both be colonialism. It describes a force foreign to your own culture/society forcing its way in and exploiting you. Colonialism is not the political system that oppresses you, its the method. If you are all part of a big country and the country decides to split your area into a lower caste and exploit you that is not colonialism. Totalitarian , tyrannical , greedy? Sure, but it is not colonialism.
This is the first time I've seen anybody mention that a dystopia is not one system but any system taken to the extreme. Thank you sir 🙏 I'm betting on warrior ruler class next IRL
I would love the sci fi medieval ism of Star Wars or Dune. Only problem is I couldn't climb the social ladder as easily if at all. I also love that quote from the SWTOR trailer. "You’re privilege is the dirt. You're birth right is loss." It's so edgy and gritty in a cool way😂
It posits the question in which form of dehumnization do I choose to an accendent social role in a social structure Spiritual, material, mortal, or mental.
Common denominator of every dystopia: no social mobility i. e. if you get assigned a role and you don't like it, you can't change it. If people can change their status, improve some aspects of life, then it is not a dystopia.
It really interesting how before the industrial revolution and the modern area, there is no social mobility but that's like calling kettle black when the power structure is defined by SOCIAL ROLES
You are assuming social roles are divorced from biology. The US military is filled with families that served for 5 to 6 generations. (Alienating those families caused a recruitment crisis).
I am an artists here and one day expect to writte a comic or book or both and i dont know if its going to be shite or great, but if it is great, i will never stop thanking you for giving ne about the best world building ideas ever. If it is shite however don't worry I understand is probably because I'm a bad writer lol
That's sort the way America and the Roman Republic used to be where the lower classes have a say in government, the average man is capable of fighting, and income and land distribution were more even than most societies.
The best utopia option would be similar to that, namely ‘Distributism’, which was the preferred economic theory of Tolkien and GK Chesterton among others. Basically it takes the best of both capitalism and socialism while eliminating the concentration of power that occurs under both of them.
Problem is feudal Warrior Aristocracies always seem to eventually give way to mass infantry armies. In intensive war. Bureaucracy helps to organise large scale armies that wear down Warrior Aristocracy.
Training a squad of super-knights is worthless when a single thing explodes and takes them all out at the same time. Meanwhile the division of infantry grunts are the ones capable of sending tens of thousands of those 'things that explode' down range and are actually capable of holding territory.
Well, dune is actually a capitalist society with inherited capital. The great houses differ from other people in that they own a share in the extraction of melange, and nuclear weapons, where without it.
That depends on the way the technology works. It's possible to write a setting where an elite class of warriors would beat mass mobilization. Allot of stories say they're that but then fail when you consider the implications of their technology or try to account for the shear resources a modern nation state can throw at problems compared to a feudal state. So allot of fictional "warrior aristocracies" would fail if confronted with a modern nation state with similar tech but it's possible to write one and even possible for one to occur and compete with societies structure like modern nation states. It's just not possible in the real world with the weapons we have now, but the past was different and the future will also be different.
@soldier22881 that may be, but the word originates from the combination of tbe particle "u-" (meaning no or negation) and the greek word "topos" meaning place, quite literally (adhearing only to its etimology) "nowhere" I also recognize that there is a typo on my original coment, my bad
@@ChandelordChandel-wi6hx Thomas Moore, the guy mentioned in the video actually invented the word Utopia. It's a play on a greek word which means good place. But it's entirely made up. The main comment was correct. Utopia does mean "No Place". Utopia as a stand in for "Imagined" Or "Ideal" was something we later attribute to the word but not exactly it's original intention.
Holy shit, I had to check whether that "Silently Praying Woman cited for 'thoughtcrime'" headline was an Onion article or something. Only to find a near identical, yet seperate case. I'm pro-choice and an atheist but that's all kinds of fucked up.
@@miguelatkinson It's not even that it's religious crime. It's that to the outside observer she's just there, doing nothing, and that constitutes an offense because of her thoughts.
Restrictions on religious rights usually signal that all the others are on the chopping block. It's the political version of the canary in the coal mine.
Since you asked, if I had to choose a dystopia, it'd definitely be one with a warrior aristocracy. My second choice would be cyberpunk. I would just join a monastery or play into the system until I make enough money to found an Amish-Hoppean covenant community of self-sufficient Luddite Protestants. Notice how we only see what cyberpunk looks like in the cities. I imagine rural areas will be more intact.
@@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120 One guy's wasteland is another's paradise. Like in present times, how living in bumfuck nowhere is an insult instead of what it should be : a blessing to be envied.
@@weeaboobaguette3943 Think less wild west dry land and more mad max with the law of the fittest being the only law out there while the cities are beacons of safety and order at the cost of your freedom, you may live free in the outlands but its going to be a short one
@@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120in current days - people like to mock US "flyover" states instead of realizing that its a paradise for those who would like to be self sufficient - low price for land, low taxes, low govt. And you can keep your guns. As eastern european I would take that vs any metropolis life.
i agree with You that Brave New World is by far the MOST Distopian, because is actually a Nice place to live: is clean, orderly and people are happy, Even if there is no freedom. And that the scary part, You would WANT the Dystopia
I actually talked with someone who was intrigued by the 1984 form of dystopia, and I tried to share how the brave new world dystopia was worse since it made you want the dystopia with all the pleasures involved, but he wasn’t very receptive.
@@killianmiller6107 They weren't receptive because that's a stupid fucking argument "Would you rather live in forever-war torture land or have the government bankroll your gooning habits?" peak pseud tbqhfamlam
@@killianmiller6107 no the worst dystopia is one that you hate but have been conditioned to think you love it. And the conditioning is so strong that you essentially can’t function unless you believe this lie, and if you stop believing it then they rid of you and nobody would notice.
Maybe the best way to prevent dystopia is to remember the Stanford prison experiment. You are not your role or class, you're an individual, roles and class are responsibilities not identities. Not a perfect solution, but its the best I can think of...
It helps, but that leads to the realisation that we are shaped by our environment much more strongly than we would like to admit, which leads to doubting the existence of free will, which leads to consequentialism. Then again, everything leads to consequentialism. You think intent is the only important factor? Then you must want more good intentions in the world. So the best action would be to create a situation that maximizes good intentions. But if you do act like thatthat, you're acting based on consequences, which means you're an accidental consequentialist.
The Stanford prison experiment was faked it has never been replicated and the data was manipulated in a way to prove what the guy wanted to prove and not what would have happened.
Yep, lets remember the most cringe and antiscientific experiment, in which so called scientist on a daily basis provoked participants, and won't let them go, unless they will actor their way out of it. Experiment, which got debunked by every participants. Experiment in which participant faked meltdown, only to be able to go on some exam. No, let the Stanford prison experiment, aside with summer camp experiment, be thrown away in a historical waste bin
Scifi neo-feudalism would be the most livable imo Even though I love the cyberpunk aesthetic especially when in the 80s like blade runner or ghost in the shell
You fucked up hard with the socialism thing at 11:20. Utopian Socialism (a.k.a premarxist socialism) is a completely different movement than marxist, materialist socialism. Marx was an open critic of utopian ideals, even if you think his work could be adopted as utopic by the eastern regimes.
I am transgender. I am also intersex. I am not transgender because of bureaucracy. I am transgender *in spite of it* I am sorry if they are weaponizing my genuine needs in ways that affect you. I don’t control what they do. I still have those needs. Most of my worst problems around it are a result of the fact that when I was born some doctor or nurse glanced at my genitals and then decided how I should live my life for me, because 99% of the time that works for people. I am one of the exceptions. I was assigned male at birth. I do not see myself as male. About halfway through puberty my body stopped doing puberty. My voice never dropped. I never developed an Adam’s apple. I developed b cup breasts. My genitals did not fully develop. I have since taken actions to consensually change my body to match what you might call my “inner self.” You say you are or were a trad Catholic? Then I hope you understand the idea of a person having something deep inside of them they cannot fully explain which is so powerful they have no real choice but to follow it. I get it if you feel like you are being brainwashed or forced to accept a state ideology. Let’s agree: these people are shit. What they do to both of us is shitty. I am not asking them to hurt you. I am asking you to respect my humanity. I am not an abstract academic concept. I am not a birth certificate or a couple of chromosomes. I am not a simple label like “male” or “female” because my body and sense of self do not care about them. Please don’t give them more power over me by making my documentation mean more than my lived experience, or by reducing me to what other people say about me when I’m not there.
Yeah, I was gonna say that this video being anti-trans made it pretty easy to dismiss. The idea that bureaucrats want to use trans people to control what everyone else thinks is some Jordan Peterson level nonsense. It's just the latest in conservative backlashes to human rights. We did this with gay people and we did this with the civil rights era. Not to mention the idea that treating people the same is somehow a means of controlling people. That definitely collapsed into nonsense pretty quickly. And there was no real response to the paradox of tolerance. Just "it's mush"? Ok, what do you disagree with exactly? If you tolerate an intolerant view, like gay people shouldn't be allowed to exist in society, you are necessarily being intolerant of gay people. Thus you're being intolerant even though you were trying to be tolerant. It's like how democracy can not survive an anti-democratic party being elected. It's the paradox of democracy.
This is the best breakdown of what dystopia is that I've ever seen. I'm definitely using all this to rethink the book of protopian short sci-fi stories that I'm writing right now. The power imbalance of social roles as the starting point where things go wrong, and the extent of dehumanization as being the key metric of dystopianism, those are some pretty useful concepts. PS: Protopianism is positing that the actually realistic and desirable way of making the future better is focusing on making small immediate helpful steps forward in constructive directions, rather than focusing on any sort of ideal perfect end state of society. It's especially not compatible with pitting any class against any other class or trying to do dramatic revolutions.
I think that’s a good idea it’s probably why Petersons “clean your room” became such a hard hitting meme we have people out here trying to upend major inequalities who individually aren’t even practicing being nice to their mother
I would say Battletech as a whole. The Inner Sphere is a feudalistic society given how hard is to destroy a mech making warrior class thrive and possible. Currently the decline of warrior class is because how easy to kill a nobleman or possible soldier that could be a future noble with modern guns.
I'd argue all of Battletech is a warrior dystopia. The Houses of the Inner Sphere get their power from their warrior mechs. Maybe Comstar has more of a religious bent, especially with the word of blake fanatics, but the rest of the factions are all Noble Houses, like in Dune. The Clans represent a more primitive warrior culture attacking a more established one, like the Mongols or Vikings attacking the established Kingdoms of Europe and hte Middle East.
@@levongevorgyan6789 Well the video did argue that feudal dystopia is the least dystopic society. It's still battletech does has some element of dystopia given that the Capellan Confederation exist and it's is a mix of bureaucratic dystopia in the sea of feudal dystopia. Average civilian dies in Battletech due to the ambition of elites of the Inner Sphere. Comstar is the bureaucratic and scholar elements of SLDF that still exist after the civil war but it slowly turn into another theocratic-bureaucratic dystopic faction in the setting.
@@levongevorgyan6789it's a fundamental misunderstanding that the houses derive their power from the battlemechs. The houses are ancient families that hold overwhelming economic , political and military power. Battlemechs are de facto an inefficient weapon on a strategic scale but very efficient in small scale tactical warfare. They minimize collateral damage and thus minimize the negative impact of warfare on trade and infrastructure. If anything mech combat is more civilized than the warfare of today where cluster munitions are used to carpet bomb civilian population centers because some extremists fired a sugar rocket from a random backyard.
@@levongevorgyan6789 I agree but would say it's a matter of degrees. It depends on which faction and when. The crusader clans during the clan invasion are pretty much the quintessential example though.
A warrior caste system where you can legitimately murder your way to the top as long as you call it a batchall Funnily enough, when the people in charge only know how to fight they don't see the inherent issues in an 800 light year supply chain After all, you don't need knowledge of grand-scale logistics to AC20 a cockpit window...
"Dystopia" is not the opposite of "Utopia". "Utopia" is derived from "Ou" and "Topos" aka a place that does not exist. The opposite of dystopia would likely be "Eytopia".
I'd really love to hear your take on Transformers One. Not only is it a good brothers-to-enemies movie, I think there are some interesting insights on divine right and tyranny that could be taken from it. Thanks!
For it does have social issue it hatred between both class ,caste or two group where Cybertron live in good lives in cities and whereas decepticons living in bad lives but still live together there still discrimination exist between them where decepticons have face they rebel want dignity but megatrons hatred let Cybertron deception war where thousands died even planet destroy megatrons become tranny it show how from First it was peaceful they just right one leader spread hatred use that for gain to live tranny just like how real world leader use they protect group so he get political rule
V for Vendetta already completely misrepresents the facts. The most-coddled group of all time IRL gets portrayed as victims in that movie. The bullies posing as victims, as always.
@@NostalgicGamerRickOShaybro what are you on about? It’s a story about anarchy vs totalitarianism which is the coddled group? And tho sure the anarchist V is portrayed as the protagonist it dosnt even fully agree anarchy would be better. Unless you mean the film in which case it’s a lot less complicated and is more of a modern liberal take on overthrowing a fascist and racist government in which case again don’t get the criticism as yes putting people in concentration camps is in deed bad
@@velstadtvonausterlitz2338 Just let people enjoy the works of art they are passionate about. Calling the wholesome appreciation of an art 'cringe' is not cool, it's rude and disrespectful. 😡
I am surprised that His Dark Materials isn't mentioned in this video, since it fits well with the Theocratic Dystopia since the antagonistic Magisterium/the Church was Theocratic in its enforcement of its values, and also, they deem anyone heretics to go against them. It's interesting how they implement the fantastical elements like Dust and Daemons. Since they saw Dust as the source of free thought which what caused the First Sin by Adam and Eve. We know that it is bullish but that just shows how tight the Magisterium wanted to control everything in twisted Theocratic means. Note I am Christian myself, and I find the Magisterium as a warning to any religion from going extreme especially in how that can lead to twisted interpretations if they're not checked. Oh and also, I wish you could also analyse this very interesting case with Imperial Japan since that nation had elements found in both Warrior and Theocratic Dystopias with the former Samurai class taking over major positions in Japan's military which influenced in Japan's militarism and expansion. And deifying and worshiping the Emperor of Japan as a living God, and obviously any one who opppose would be viewed a heretic. Japan is a very weird and interesting take in this. Great video btw.
I think the biggest cause of failure is seeking to solve all of the problems. We don't live for the solutions, we live for the problem-solving process. If you want to craft a utopia, it needs to give people things to do, and those things need to feel like freedom and productivity.
In Egypt the Priest were also the Scientist. They created Gemstones and Metal alloys no one else had. Its where we get Chemistry from as its the Land of Khem. Maybe that is the Key to a powerful society. The ruling class needs to be a conglomeration of all classes. It not only allows lowers to rise through the ranks by mastery of the skills of other classes but makes the ruling class viewed as powerful by all those in every class as they are masters of all and worthy of respect.
As someone who lives in a country where the warrior class is in charge, it is true that people generally think that soldiers are cool. Luckily, the beaurocrats are also pretty high up. So everything is nice and efficient so far.
@crusader2112 You're welcome. By the way, when I said it is nice, I mean't in a peaceful, secure, tranquil type of way. People from places like the USA, where there is less government oversight (more crime but more excitement), might not enjoy it as much.
As with most of you videos I agree with most of what you say, but you solution is again too straight forward. "Ethics" being necessary for a functioning society is what you would call the "priest class" exercising their vision of society. Ethics are not fundamental, what is ethical one day might be unethical the next. But yes, balance is the key to a healthy society and human health in general
WhatIfAltHist talked about the whole balance of power in many of his videos. What made Europe rise to such heights was that the various ruling classes were balanced in power, while in the other Eurasian Civilizations one or two ruling classes had coopted their cultures and led them to stagnate.
Yeah, like it's a pretty naked critique of capitalism 1984 is also a critique of Stalinism, not socialism, considering George Orwell was a Democratic Socialist and never renounced Socialism
If you liked Priest, have you read "A Bloody Habit" by Eleanor Bourg Nicholson? It's also about vampire hunting priests, but with sound theology. Seriously.
Pilgrim, I need the title of your book. It sounds like a completely unhinged variant of a mad quest to kill a god (the satanic cult in this one), which would be better than most dystopian novels.
18:30 "Imagine _Percy Jackson_ and _The Hunger Games_ had a kid who became an edgy Political Science student at _Dune_ University and played _waaaay_ too much _Warhammer 40,000_ with his buddies." ... Okay. You have my attention.
He's talking about the Red Rising series and it's very good! It does start out a bit 'young adult' but it finds its footing. I'm currently on the fifth book and am really enjoying it!
Honey, wake up. Pilgrims Pass uploaded. Epic video. The Warrior Aristocracy or Cyberpunk might be the best to live in, but a cyberpunk merchant-led world commodifies everything and modern warfare doesn’t mix well with the warrior aristocracy. (Rip Kaiser Karl) I agree, the classes must and need to work together for a society to truly prosper. Great video 👍 Peace ✌🏻
Interesting how different "main" gamelines of World of Darkness tabletop RPGs have these different types of dystopia as "the crushing system": Vampire: the Masquarade - the warrior class dystopia of hyper powerful acient vampire mafia bosses, where power is often corresponding heavily with actual combat prowess, where the weak are simply pawns and the only pernament way to advancing is to take this personal power directly for yourself by defeating (either directly or any being clever) someone more powerful and literally devouring their soul. Mage the Ascension - the beurocratic type. Technocracy is the shadow cabal that promises progress in technology, but seeks the complete control, crushing individuality and wants to turn everyone into cog in the machine by eventually spiritually lobotomizing entire humanity (they are also commonly treated on Reddit as "actual good guys", because their opponents are "qanon antivaxxers" and "science is good", ignoring the fact that there are science-oriented mage traditions opposing the Technocracy) Werewolf the Apocalypse - combo of merchant and theocratic, there is Pentex the megacorp secretly filled with supernatural weirdoes, they making a lot of money and are spiritually alligned with the forces that are opposing the Earth itself and as such, the Pentex seeks to destroy the environment both for profit (which gives influence) and for the sake of it. Its honestly kinda cartoonish, but again, the game itself has a reputation of "that game where you play as a furry Ted Kaczynski". (this game also tends to bring critcism on Reddit, despite anti-capitalism and environmentalism because "science technology good" and werewolves themselves are rather... VERY much anti-modernity) I am generally noticing the trend when the "gameline evil establishment" comes of as more "modern" than player characters, Redditors often see the fundamental problem (notice how Vampire the Masquarade, the gameline that has the least controvercy over its basic premise have "the evil establishment" being essentially pre-modern might-makes-right people who were often literally born in pre-modern times, while the player-friendly opposition to them is way more "modern"), despite in the setting itself none of player character groups are really "the good guys", just mostly desiring its own interests.
In _Werewolf,_ I'd argue the whole thing is theocratic. Pentex is, indeed, a corporation, but it's under the control of a theocratic elite, and the werewolf tribes as a whole are also theocratic, though not all to the same extent. Mind, it makes a difference when your patron deity actually does stuff. I'd argue about _Mage,_ since the default PC mage groups are closer to religious orders, but mages are still humans, and that means however they believe reality 'actually' works, they're forced to spend most of their lives in the consensus reality created and maintained by the Technocracy.
One could become a Philosophy teacher by just playing your videos in class and discussing them. Thanks for once more making me think hard on all the possible forces that shape humanity 😄
(15:26) This wasn't actually true for large portions of Chinese history, and throughout Chinese history social ranks have shifted greatly. Initially, during the Western Zhou, under the social system known as the 國野制, soldiers were equal to the scholar-bureaucrats, and merchants and artisans were placed above peasants, but with the abolition of the 國野制, the peasants began to rise in social status. When the Legalist Qin Dynasty came to power, they placed merchants and artisans below peasants, as they wanted the population to consist of an impoverished peasantry stuck to their land to reduce their power relative to the government, and the existence of merchants threatened this. The rise of the Eastern Han relied on the merchant class' rebellion again Wang Mang, and their social status started to rise again, but when the Eastern Han began to collapse, the social status of both merchants and soldiers began to do so as well, however the equal-field system of the Northern Wei created a hereditary military caste and restored the high social status of the soldiers. This social system remained in place until the late Tang Dynasty, when the powerful imperial aristocracy disappeared and the military seized power and elevated themselves above the scholar-bureaucrats. Shortly afterward, after the Song Dynasty reunited China, the military lost power again, and in reaction to their abuse of power over the past century, the soldiers were dropped to the bottom of the social ladder, while the rise of commerce meant that merchants and artisans started to rise up the social ladder once more, until by the late Ming Dynasty they were more or less equal to peasants.
I've struggled to figure out the dystopia setting of my own story for awhile now, having different conflicting ideas that I'd like to incorporate. This video was great and gave me a much better idea of where to go with it!
We'll get 1984 long before we get Cyberpunk. The managerial class has all the cards, and is currently able to pick and choose the winners in the merchant class. Meanwhile, the merchants that you believe will become the supercorps of tomorrow are busy buying off bureaucrats to maintain their status quo.
Nah. We're leaning towards a theocracy. The evangelicals in the US will have all the power as of January 2025 and they'll quickly ban anything science-y that goes against their wretched dogma.
Eh, the threat of coup from Warriors becomes ever-present. Cyberpunk dystopia is enabled by the political gridlock of the age of liberalism, I don't know how long that'll last. Some day people will realize the primal truth of blood, steel & fire as the supreme dictators; not suits in boardrooms.
Battletech actually has all types of these Dystopias in it. Let me show you. Bureaucratic dystopia: Capellan Confederation and Draconis Combine Capitalist Dystopia: Free Worlds League and Magistracy of Canopus Theocratic Dystopia: Comstar and Word of Blake, the Society Warrior dystopia: The Clans It is honestly what makes the setting so interesting, you have different kinds of dystopias intersecting.
Also, you're conflating communism and fascism. Communism isn't a political system it is a economic one. The reason most of the communist countries listed resemble fascist ones is because they are fascists.
@Leitis_Fella ...Who would have known that allowing corporations to buy politicians off with campaign donations and under the table gifts would lead to facist tendencies? I'm not suggesting communism is the answer. But we're seeing *right now* how capitalism can also slide into fascism. I think a balance is the only thing that would work, where people get paid proportionally to their skills, but have taxes that effectively cap personal wealth to a few tens of millions as a maximum, and then use that money to fund programs that help everyone. Like infrastructure, healthcare, and education. With strong separation between politics and money.
I wonder why communism in the real world always ends up looking like fascism…..maybe because in practice, they aren’t all that different. Because Enforcing equality requires oppressive controls and a ruling class.
29:20 "if the individual cannot be trusted to define what is a woman from simple physical observation, like who has a vagina" but that's the point. how many of the women you meet have you physically observed to have a vagina? if she looks like what you think fits the "woman" archetype, and she acts like what you think is the "woman" archetype, then she's ostensibly passed your "simple physical observation"-test.
Wanted to thank the author for giving me a new perspective on social structure, dynamics with his videos. Especially, on the ways of humanity's progress. You are partially responsible for my appreciation of Warhammer setting, your videos on that topic helped me to look at it from another angle, and to actually like that ridiculous universe.
Most systems could work relatively well in a vacuum without the primary error (humans), but that is never the case because all systems are made of humans and humans are flawed and corrupt. Thus there will never be a utopia.
Corrupt? No. Humanity is ignorant and society/capitalism is designed to encourage short-term thinking. I think we simply lack the mental tools and ideal economic/political system to change how humanity as a whole functions
A new Pilgrims Pass video-essay? Boy, Christmas DID come early this year! Jokes aside, I love your content. Thank you for all the work you do! ❤ Edit: I wrote the comment about as soon as I clicked on the video. But after watching it- (And noting down pages of it) Oh Dear. This one is Great. I wish more people followed you.
Strange that Pilgrim included lots of footage from Legends of the Galactic Heroes but didn’t mentioned much about it in the video. When you have all 4 dystopias combined, you pretty much get real life. Tho the idea of balance of power of the classes is great, it’s worth noting that balancing interest and of each class, is the duty of the bureaucrat class. If any class is getting overpowered, the naturally diplomatic and negotiative bureaucrat class is most likely to make concessions and allies with the powerful class to maintain power rather than overthrown. Which pretty means the bureaucratic dystopia with a secondary capitalistic/theocratic/militaristic theme is probably the most likely. It might be out of the scope of this video but fortunately, dystopia can only really exist in a vacuum. Out of balance society/dystopia are weakened civilizations, likely to be overthrown by revolution, or conquered by other healthier civilizations. This is what happened in the Legend of the Galactic Heroes. The decadent nobles of the empire was overthrown in a revolution, and the corrupt bureaucratic alliance was conquered by the new empire. If dystopia is defined by dehumanization, then the imperfections of human nature is probably the best defense against all forms of dystopias. Cowardice help humans to avoid the brute force of warriors and stab them in the back. Pride helps humans to brush off the nonsense preachings of the priest and ridicule them with smart trolling. Laziness help humans ignore the advertisements of the merchants and bargain for the lowest price. Anger drives humans to seek justice and overthrows the inhumane laws set by the bureaucrats. Our instincts and emotions helped us survive natural selection, it would probably also help us survive our creations.
@@anotherbacklog Almost every intro in the 1988 anime of all four seasons (110 episodes), quote, "In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same."
I know it was only mentioned a few times but I crackled with excitement every time he mentioned Red Rising. God I love that series, it is by far my favorite sci fi series ever. Hail Reaper!
Talking about these four castes in the conclusion got me pondering about their compatriots in Dungeons & Dragons: The managerial Wizard, the merchant Thief, the priestly - Priest and the Warrior, who... wars, and how they each best compliment the other or get wiped in an old school dungeon.
Yea, just steal everything from socialism, but dilute it and make it soulless and as profitable as possible and call it "crapitalism." "Free market" 101
This was the best breakdown I’ve ever seen and honestly if there’s a book correlated with this type of breakdown I’d love a recommendation. Blew it out of the water man, recommended this video to some friends. Thank you for the video
This is a great analysis. It's nice that you also put out your biases, and still made a very level-headed discussion of it all, even on topics that run counter to your beliefs. Rare to find. Also Cyberpunk is the best. We're basically already living it. At least I can get cool tech too.
also this is inherently flawed - a corporation with enough power can totally be an own "autoctratic nation" (where is the line) and thus can mirror any or every of the aspects mentioned. truth is that it is not all that different nor distinct.
And yet those corporations gain power from consumer choice. Capitalism = freedom of commerce, and the common man literally gifts them their level of power.
Just to clarify something, socialism as a whole is not about "abolishing property rights", or even, arguably, equality. It may lead to that, as it may lead to communism in one of its extreme forms, but it's certainly not a defining trait common to all forms of socialism. The same way that capitalism may lead to dystopia if met with a total lack of regulation.
@@bramvanduijn8086 The video doesn't make the distinction, which is what I'm pointing. But yes, socialism only revolves around private property, and not personal property, or anything else for that matter.
I just realized that the four types of common dystopia closely mirror the four kinds of civilizational phases that most nations experience (in different orders) as they are created, develop, and eventually die. Typically with Western Civilizations (or those occupying the areas that are denoted as West) from as far back as Classical Greco-Roman times follow this specific order as they are born, grow, and eventually collapse into a dark age style anarchy leading to the next latest successive incarnation of itself. First Phase: Primordial Theocratic Society run by Priestly Ruling Class. Their rule typically begins from before the new society’s birth from the ashes of the preceding society they are the idea generations that help evolve the declining and dying civilizations into the newer vitality having versions of themselves. Second Phase: Rebellious Gilded Age Society run by Ascendant Merchant Class. They are inevitable pushback against the overbearing nature of the now declining Priest Class who had repress the rest of their society in an ironic twist killing the legitimacy of faith based ruling orders foreseeable future. Setting up the secular cycle that leads to the bureaucratic phase that is the natural counterbalance to the merchant class abuses in absence of faith. Third Phase: Maturing and Stagnant Bureaucratic and/or Technocratic Age Society run by titular Bureaucrats or the Technocrats who are the secular antithesis to the Merchants and the earlier Theocrats. Which is generally the shorter lived of the phases that will eventually lead to the ascendance of the warrior castes as their own ironic antithesis. Fourth Phase: Longest lived phase of the attempted to revitalize Warrior Aristocracy Society run by the Warrior Aristocrats who aim to preserve, restore, or at least stave off the final decline and collapse of their society into anarchic ruin. They manage their society until it’s eventual ruination by entropic forces beyond their control left over from the failed bureaucratic phase. Which then sets up the new primordial ooze and religious beliefs that create the next incarnation of the dead society in the aftermath from its nesting eggs.
No matter the dystopia, it boils down to a reality of hopelessness. That's the common theme. That's the difference between topia and dystopia. There are people suffering under dystopia. There's plenty of people in the world who have no means to survive due to social systems. Some are born starving, worked to death, or were killed before they're born. They're not given a fair chance at living. For them it's a dystopia.
you mention you're the merchant class, but as you communicate and explain your worldview to others, does that not also make you somewhat part of the priest class? you've definitely changed my way of thinking about certain things. edit: you go on to explain that people can occupy multiple of these roles. either way, thank you for these amazing videos!
You can really blame that on marx(and engels) who integrated classical socialism with the monstrosity that became communism. Now, socialism has become (societally) antithetical to capitalism (while in reality the systems do not exist contrary to eachother). The soviet-union was not Communist though, it was a totalitarian extreme of socialism, with the eventual goal of "communism". Which is silly considering they would have never made it there.
It's a moot point when people can't tell the difference between fascism and either socialism or communism. I guess some fascist societies we call fascist but other ones we just let them define themselves?
Read our webcomic Fractal Fables for free: www.webtoons.com/en/canvas/fractal-fables/list?title_no=999212
The first five episodes was uploaded daily from the 13th up to the 17th of November. The rest will have a varied upload schedule of a weekly to monthly basis until the first season is complete. I hope you guys enjoy it.
Care to explain the discrimination and transphobia at 29:16? Accepting and respecting gender identity isn't some socialist/communist/bureaucratic dystopian belief.
Capitalist Dystopia is more "human" than Theocratic Dystopia btw. Theocratic dystopia pays more lip-service to the human experience than the Capitalist dystopia, but in actual practice it oppresses things such as aesthetic, desire & vitality into nothingness. It grinds everything to a rigid halt in much the same way as the Bureaucratic dystopia, except through non-secular means (in fact, the Theocratic & Bureaucratic are mostly the same dystopia; the only difference being their secularism or lack-thereof.) Ascetism/Restriction is the ultimate ideal of both worlds.
Capitalist dystopia focuses less overtly on the human experience, but manages to keep it intact and even push it to extreme boundaries. Cyberpunk worlds are full of adventure, beauty, anarchy, intensity, ambition, the highs & lows of life etc. Mega-Corps are even 'pseudo-feudal' if you will, a sort of pale mimicry of the houses that would arise in a Warrior Dystopia (IE. the "most human" of all dystopia).
Define rfeemarket.Has such thing over exist? And if so, is sustainable on the long term?
Zz svsv
Capitalist Dystopia is more "human" than Theocratic Dystopia btw. Theocratic dystopia pays more lip-service to the human experience than the Capitalist dystopia, but in actual practice it oppresses things such as aesthetic, desire & vitality into nothingness. It grinds everything to a rigid halt in much the same way as the Bureaucratic dystopia, except through non-secular means (in fact, the Theocratic & Bureaucratic are mostly the same dystopia; the only difference being their secularism or lack-thereof.) Ascetism/Restriction is the ultimate ideal of both worlds.
Capitalist dystopia focuses less overtly on the human experience, but manages to keep it intact and even push it to extreme boundaries. Cyberpunk worlds are full of adventure, beauty, anarchy, intensity, ambition, the highs & lows of life etc. Mega-Corps are even 'pseudo-feudal' if you will, a sort of pale mimicry of the houses that would arise in a Warrior Dystopia (IE. the "most human" of all dystopia), which lends credence to them being closer in proximity.
40k is so much more than a theocracy. The state church has great power, yes, but so does the military and the aptly named Administratum. Mechanicus is a parallel theotechnocratic society. If anything, humanity in 40k is characterised by having a relatively weak merchant class, although the rogue traders might be inclined to disagree.
Approximately 90% of all the voidcraft with interstellar capabilities in Human-controlled spacea are merchant ships.
The merchant class is thriving and numerous.
@@winzyl9546 so basically the imperium of man is a schizophrenic intermingling of all four types of dystopia described in the video?
@@Celtic_Spartan that's what you got when the setting is the whole fucking galaxy.
The 40 lK imperium of man is a constructed worst of all possible worlds at once having an orgy. It is mostly fascist, but not afraid to borrow from other bad systems.
So a weirdly centralized and decentralized system? Like premodern feudal society?
Bold statement, to call the Hunger Games a socialist dystopia lol
The people are not working, they are dying. Hardly instrumental to providing more capital in the factories.
@dansmith1661 The Hunger Games regime is supposed to be fascistic capitalism; there is no ideology of class abolition, there is quite literally a class of wealthy people which is not only ideologically justified by the government but celebrated yearly with child sacrifices
@@dansmith1661 There's not that much work to do when it's all automated with machinery. Part of advanced capitalism is keeping the people from over-producing so that once the rich take all they want, there is nothing left over for the poor.
@@dansmith1661 people do work in the Hunger Games. The main character is kind of pissed that her mom won't get a job after the dad died, so Katniss has to take care of Prim and her mom...They are told to worship the state. The guy from the District 2 talks about bringing glory to his district.
@@FMJIRISH Socialism, also known as Economic Collectivism/Statism or Command Economy, is when the State -in the name of the "public"- officially owns most or all of the means of production and industries, and centrally conducts the planning of production and the allocation of resources/commodities/goods/services across the citizenry, instead of an unregulated price system and civil market participants spontaneously carrying out these functions in a mostly privatized economic climate. So the totalitarian Panem government technically fits the academically accepted definition of Socialism as exemplified by the real-world USSR.
I was so tripped out rn I saw the title thinking this this a whatifalthist video, and spent 30 seconds wondering why his voice sound strange.
Wth I watch Whatifalthist as well
Same bro it's literally Rudyard's style
😂😂😂
Hello fellow gentlemen
ahahahahahah, this guys the OG, love pilgrim.
Makes sense; the subject matters are pretty similar.
"Ethics removed from war with the Prussian's invention of total war"
You mean the French with the introduction of levée en masse and modern industrial war. Prussian military reforms took their cues from ol' Boney. (and so on)
I recommend JFC Fuller's The Conduct of War 1789-1961 on this subject.
Once again it's the French who are to blame
So the French are to blame? Well its business as usual then.
@@lukasvillar9328 The French revolutionised warfare, it is not a blame but a crown.
@@erwanmarie8756based
"Good intentions matter not, only good deeds." JRR Tolkien.
The road to hell is pathed with good intentions. The road to heaven with good actions.
@@speedy01247 Do you think Hitler and his Nazis or Stalin and his Bolsheviks considered their countries dystopias? No.
How do you know if your deed is good?
The immediate outcome? The long term downstream outcome?
What about a deed of evil intent that saves lives?
Utilitarian (outcome of the action) ethics really gets fuzzy when we look at actions that are good on the short term, but long term, down stream, indirectly cause immense harm. If for example I save someone's life, but that person becomes someone that deleted a large number of people, then in totality, my action made great horrors possible. But in the short term I saved a life. The long term, indirect, and big picture makes things more complicated.
"A good deed" is questionable, was it an action that itself was good, or the outcome? Bender attempting to fill in as God kept trying to help the small people living on his metal frame, but the more he did the worse things became. When he asked the huge giant computer if what he did was right the cryptic response was "right and wrong are only words, it is what you do that is important" which is true but does not really answer the question.
Furthermore, it is implied but not stated that Bender was sent back with the experience to free the Monks from the laundry closet. The point is "good deeds" can have horrible consequences. Horrible deeds can cause more good than harm, even if by sheer accident.
@@user-nu8in3ey8c Sounds like utilitarian ethics closely match reality, reality is a fuzzy and confusing mess too.
Why didn’t the eagles just fly the ringbearer to mount doom? “Uh, err, well, um… SHUT UP.” - JRR Tolkien
"The ends never justify the means, because nothing ever ends." - DJ Peach Cobbler
Based
Based as fuck
Which one of cobblers videos is that from?
@@dylanaltland215 I Think One Of His Aztec Videos
Cross over episode
I find it interesting how so many dystopias are masked as Utopias. I also find it interesting how the Utopia mask is completely reliant on the dystopia underneath in order to exist.
I think that the forced implementation of utopian ideas is what causes the dystopia.
@@NIGBEATSvery well put
@@NIGBEATSit’s also the fact that everyone’s version of the perfect place is different
Utopia is greek derivative word meaninf "no land" so when you try to preach for reaching something that is not there - you waste somebodies else reources until everythibg rots..
@@NIGBEATSUtopia is an impossibility and always will be. Therfore every attempt a Utopia will always end in a Dystopia.
Humans are flawed and imperfect beings and the imperfect cannot create perfection.
Brave New World
In most dystopias, dissidence gets you killed. In Brave New World, you are shipped off to an island with other interesting troublemakers, where you cannot affect the larger society.
Brave New World is both utopia and dystopia. You can even argue it is not dystopia at all.
I just had a realization. We never see anyone or anything go to or come back from the island. For all we know, the island could be propaganda. Similar to how a dog goes to "live" on an "up-state farm"
@@alongfortheride1016 Lol, you are so right.
However, since the state has such a monopoly on violence, I assumed they didn’t feel threatened by a small and secure island of dissidents. Like how they treated people on the reservations.
Rather, I saw the island as more of a startup incubator for new ideas or technologies. Which the state could later assimilate into the larger dystopic system if deemed useful.
@Tullochr105 I like that. It not only makes sense for the state to do, but it's entirely consistent, seeing as the reservations exist. Bravo!
sooooo The British Empire, As they send trouble makers to Australia?
This is what no media literacy does to a mf
MUH MEDIA LITERACY
@@Yoosech9712 You are a child
FR Socialist Dystopia for Hunger Games? Where there's a literal ruling class oppressing worker classes in various districts producing the capital goods? Words are literally meaningless and ragebait is all that matters. Gross.
what does this even mean
@@Yoosech9712cringe.
Hunger Games is not socialism or communism. It's a form of capitalism.
Because why
@@abbacab77have you ever seen the START OF THE FIRST MOVIE?? WHY THEY FIGHT?? THE HIGHLY EXPENSIVE INTERIORS AND SECTORS??
@@Mentallyheld The state being expensive and hedonistic doesn't make them capitalists. It uses its absolute state-given power to extract wealth from the peasants to fuel itself, no matter what the cost is. Its control that's being exerted to get more control and buy hedonistic pleasure , not a big capitalistic monopoly profiting of whatever possible product to amass wealth.
@@Mentallyheld Because the Soviet and Maoist bureaucracies never ever engaged in the purchase of expensive luxuries and hedonism while they were in power right? U do know that Mao Zedong himself literally had a harem of women that he would pleasure himself with whenever he wanted to? Man u people are really ignorant of communist/socialist history hey....just because u establish a socialist society doesn't mean that money suddenly disappears .....or do you think that communist countries just burned all their money when their revolutions finally succeeded? Do u think they stopped having an economy or stopped engaging in international trade or stopped developing technology or stopped buying and selling things? By your logic then, even a medieval or feudal monarchy would be capitalist because the King wears an expensive crown made from gold and precious gemstones and the finest robes.
@@ShadowKueken these people think socialism = money and materialism ceases to exist.....its hilarious to see actually, how so many people speak of communism/ socialism but don't actually know what it is and that what happened in the Soviet Union, Maoist China etc was in fact real communism that existed within its various schools of thought i.e Marxist Leninism, Marxist Maoism, Marxist Agrarianism ....but they will flip flop and and try to move the goal posts with phrases like "thats not real communism" forgetting that even Marx himself lived quite a luxurious and privileged life since he belonged to the upper class of his day
I'd go for cyberpunk dystopia - mostly because we're already there but we're missing the cool stuff that comes along with it.
You wouldn't be able to afford the cool stuff, you would be poor and the rich people would be cyber gods.
@@dmfaccount1272 I can't afford to do cocaine while skydiving off a floating bus like the uber rich of today but that doesn't mean I can't afford some cool stuff. I'll certainly take being lower class in cyberpunk over living in District 12 from the hunger games or living in the Imperium of man.
@@dmfaccount1272probably could, half the stuff in cyberpunk is ease enough to get.
@@plmokm33 the wealth split wouldn't be the same as it is now,
@@dmfaccount1272 In practical terms it makes no difference if the wealth split is larger given how large it is now, its like the difference between swimming across one ocean or two. Right now you can afford the base level consumer stuff, maybe something a bit nicer if you have patience and save up. Cyberpunk is about the same in how it depicts the average person.
There are no solutions, only trade offs - Thomas Sowell
True even for dystopia
Wrong, if humanity is so messed up with every system then we may as well say that we do not deserve to live. There are solutions, I have two.
If you think evolution is true, there can be no single correct system of governance.
@@Multi1So if utopia isn't possible, we should all just minecraft? That's a pretty bleak outlook friend.
@@Multi1 then we should follow the system of the wild animals
@@Multi1 Ah, very inspiring. You should be the example for us.
I do like you point out the irony of the Cyberpunk genre, both in and out of the story.
Meanwhile, I only got on to say that if Fallout Tactics is cannon, the Fallout world was saved from an AI apocalypse by a nuclear apocalypse.
That's different. They're high elves - they're naturally divine.
Truer words never spoken
No. Hunger games is colonialism. Just because all dirstricts once belonged to the same country doesn’t mean that they aren’t colonised by the capitol. That’s like saying the US was part of england and thus not a colony. That’s like saying senegal wasn’t colonised by the friench because they were under the same government.
You defeated your initial statement with your examples of comparison.
"Colonialism. The exploitation of people and of resources by a foreign group." Whether you are exploited by a big foreign company or another nation, it would both be colonialism. It describes a force foreign to your own culture/society forcing its way in and exploiting you. Colonialism is not the political system that oppresses you, its the method. If you are all part of a big country and the country decides to split your area into a lower caste and exploit you that is not colonialism. Totalitarian , tyrannical , greedy? Sure, but it is not colonialism.
Colonialism isnt an economical system. Thats like saying green tastes the best
This is the first time I've seen anybody mention that a dystopia is not one system but any system taken to the extreme. Thank you sir 🙏 I'm betting on warrior ruler class next IRL
_"The ends can never justify the means, because nothing ever ends."_
-- *DJ Peach Cobbler*
I like that a lot
DJ PC is more of a philosopher than even he himself believes
That sound awfully like Dr.Manhattan
Honestly he’s pretty good at making idiots like me understand some stuff that happened
Great quote!
I would love the sci fi medieval ism of Star Wars or Dune. Only problem is I couldn't climb the social ladder as easily if at all.
I also love that quote from the SWTOR trailer. "You’re privilege is the dirt. You're birth right is loss." It's so edgy and gritty in a cool way😂
There's also the Neo Feudilism of Battletech.
Lol 90% of people into monarchy and fuedalism...it would be great, just not for me and my lower class background
It posits the question in which form of dehumnization do I choose to an accendent social role in a social structure
Spiritual, material, mortal, or mental.
Not long after I uninstalled that game from my computer.
That was a cool line, pity I couldn't get into KOTFE and KOTET, those expansions felt lame to me, none of the characters were likeable to me at all.
Common denominator of every dystopia: no social mobility i. e. if you get assigned a role and you don't like it, you can't change it. If people can change their status, improve some aspects of life, then it is not a dystopia.
Well social Mobility is one thing but it means squat if your only options are the bottom or top of the shit pile.
@@namastereciprocity4549 what you describe is beyond dystopia. If social mobility brings you nowhere and everwhere is bad for everyone: this is hell
You have quite a lot of mobility in cyberpunk. Just not very far upwards.
It really interesting how before the industrial revolution and the modern area, there is no social mobility but that's like calling kettle black when the power structure is defined by SOCIAL ROLES
You are assuming social roles are divorced from biology. The US military is filled with families that served for 5 to 6 generations. (Alienating those families caused a recruitment crisis).
I am an artists here and one day expect to writte a comic or book or both and i dont know if its going to be shite or great, but if it is great, i will never stop thanking you for giving ne about the best world building ideas ever.
If it is shite however don't worry I understand is probably because I'm a bad writer lol
Godspeed on your endeavors! I'm sure you'll do great.
Don’t forget the secret fifth one…
An Idiocracy!
And the sixth one:
WE ARE THE BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.
"The idiots will take over the world. Not because they're competent, but because of their numbers"
oh i love the idiocracies, my favourite one is _(insert group that you don't like here)_
insert modern politics joke here
By process of elimination, the only "Utopia" is one where the peasants have gained too much power...that just sounds like the Shire.
That's sort the way America and the Roman Republic used to be where the lower classes have a say in government, the average man is capable of fighting, and income and land distribution were more even than most societies.
The best utopia option would be similar to that, namely ‘Distributism’, which was the preferred economic theory of Tolkien and GK Chesterton among others. Basically it takes the best of both capitalism and socialism while eliminating the concentration of power that occurs under both of them.
That’s just called living safely in a small town.
@@connormcphillips9008 "But that's socialism/communism, not my America"
@@winzyl9546 I’m not saying everything was equal just that the common man had a lot more power than normal compared to the elite
Problem is feudal Warrior Aristocracies always seem to eventually give way to mass infantry armies. In intensive war. Bureaucracy helps to organise large scale armies that wear down Warrior Aristocracy.
Training a squad of super-knights is worthless when a single thing explodes and takes them all out at the same time. Meanwhile the division of infantry grunts are the ones capable of sending tens of thousands of those 'things that explode' down range and are actually capable of holding territory.
Well, dune is actually a capitalist society with inherited capital. The great houses differ from other people in that they own a share in the extraction of melange, and nuclear weapons, where without it.
@@everwinter0 you can be capitalist and feudal at the same time...
That depends on the way the technology works. It's possible to write a setting where an elite class of warriors would beat mass mobilization. Allot of stories say they're that but then fail when you consider the implications of their technology or try to account for the shear resources a modern nation state can throw at problems compared to a feudal state. So allot of fictional "warrior aristocracies" would fail if confronted with a modern nation state with similar tech but it's possible to write one and even possible for one to occur and compete with societies structure like modern nation states. It's just not possible in the real world with the weapons we have now, but the past was different and the future will also be different.
The bureaucratic managerial class by definition totalitarian in mature
Fun fact: etymologically, "utopia" means "nowhere ("u-": no // "-topia": place)
false the actual definition is:
an *imagined* place or an ideal place
both it and dystopia are imagined with dystopia being a less ideal place.
@soldier22881 that may be, but the word originates from the combination of tbe particle "u-" (meaning no or negation) and the greek word "topos" meaning place, quite literally (adhearing only to its etimology) "nowhere"
I also recognize that there is a typo on my original coment, my bad
And yet the typical negation in Greek is “a” I thought utopia was eutopia like eudaimonia (good place, like good life).
@@ChandelordChandel-wi6hx Utopia is abbreviated from Eutopia, from eu- "good."
@@ChandelordChandel-wi6hx Thomas Moore, the guy mentioned in the video actually invented the word Utopia. It's a play on a greek word which means good place. But it's entirely made up. The main comment was correct. Utopia does mean "No Place". Utopia as a stand in for "Imagined" Or "Ideal" was something we later attribute to the word but not exactly it's original intention.
Holy shit, I had to check whether that "Silently Praying Woman cited for 'thoughtcrime'" headline was an Onion article or something. Only to find a near identical, yet seperate case.
I'm pro-choice and an atheist but that's all kinds of fucked up.
Yes restricting peoples religious rights are bad
@@miguelatkinson It's not even that it's religious crime. It's that to the outside observer she's just there, doing nothing, and that constitutes an offense because of her thoughts.
Restrictions on religious rights usually signal that all the others are on the chopping block. It's the political version of the canary in the coal mine.
the worst dystopia was ours all along
Christianity is dystopian too. If you think things their god doesn't like you get damned to hell.
LMAO HUNGER GAMES SOCIALISM
Since you asked, if I had to choose a dystopia, it'd definitely be one with a warrior aristocracy.
My second choice would be cyberpunk. I would just join a monastery or play into the system until I make enough money to found an Amish-Hoppean covenant community of self-sufficient Luddite Protestants. Notice how we only see what cyberpunk looks like in the cities. I imagine rural areas will be more intact.
It’s said it’s only in cities where body modification is practiced, or at least where you go cyberpsycho
Not really since in most cyberpunk dystopias the countryside is usually a mix of wasteland or corporate controlled farmland
@@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120 One guy's wasteland is another's paradise.
Like in present times, how living in bumfuck nowhere is an insult instead of what it should be : a blessing to be envied.
@@weeaboobaguette3943 Think less wild west dry land and more mad max with the law of the fittest being the only law out there while the cities are beacons of safety and order at the cost of your freedom, you may live free in the outlands but its going to be a short one
@@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120in current days - people like to mock US "flyover" states instead of realizing that its a paradise for those who would like to be self sufficient - low price for land, low taxes, low govt. And you can keep your guns. As eastern european I would take that vs any metropolis life.
i agree with You that Brave New World is by far the MOST Distopian, because is actually a Nice place to live: is clean, orderly and people are happy, Even if there is no freedom. And that the scary part, You would WANT the Dystopia
I actually talked with someone who was intrigued by the 1984 form of dystopia, and I tried to share how the brave new world dystopia was worse since it made you want the dystopia with all the pleasures involved, but he wasn’t very receptive.
In the show, even the Epsilons have higher living standards than most people in the developed world today.
I dunno man, it would get pretty disturbing when you're reminded you're not allowed to reject unwanted advances.
@@killianmiller6107 They weren't receptive because that's a stupid fucking argument "Would you rather live in forever-war torture land or have the government bankroll your gooning habits?" peak pseud tbqhfamlam
@@killianmiller6107 no the worst dystopia is one that you hate but have been conditioned to think you love it. And the conditioning is so strong that you essentially can’t function unless you believe this lie, and if you stop believing it then they rid of you and nobody would notice.
Nicely done. I had not thought of it explicitly in terms of those four classes before.
Great to see you here!
Old head, you're here. The west is truly saved
@@PilgrimsPass hey what's the name of the movie you took the clip of a guy being murdered by chinese radicals in the theocracy section?
@@PilgrimsPass where is the Communist Dystopia?
@@Celtic_Spartan its the Netflix adaptation of the Three body problem.
The socialism corner should be fascism to be more accurate.
2 sides of the same coin
@matthewmyers8587 what's the coin then Einstein?
Extensive government control over all aspects of society and no value on the rights of individuals
@@k0mm4nd3r_k3n
Authoritarianism is the coin.
@@matthewmyers8587 fascists do love crying like you
Bro called the hunger games socialist lol😂
Media literacy is dead
Literally the central government running the entire economy, which is based on an enforced division of labour without any social mobility.
@@augth Today I learned fuedalism is also socialism.
Bro cooked with the intro
Maybe the best way to prevent dystopia is to remember the Stanford prison experiment. You are not your role or class, you're an individual, roles and class are responsibilities not identities. Not a perfect solution, but its the best I can think of...
I like your thinking. Using words differently, I'd say it something like:
Humanity>Class, and only pathetic fools thinking otherwise.
that experiment has never replicated and the data was manipulated so the experiment has never been proven true....
It helps, but that leads to the realisation that we are shaped by our environment much more strongly than we would like to admit, which leads to doubting the existence of free will, which leads to consequentialism. Then again, everything leads to consequentialism. You think intent is the only important factor? Then you must want more good intentions in the world. So the best action would be to create a situation that maximizes good intentions. But if you do act like thatthat, you're acting based on consequences, which means you're an accidental consequentialist.
The Stanford prison experiment was faked it has never been replicated and the data was manipulated in a way to prove what the guy wanted to prove and not what would have happened.
Yep, lets remember the most cringe and antiscientific experiment, in which so called scientist on a daily basis provoked participants, and won't let them go, unless they will actor their way out of it.
Experiment, which got debunked by every participants. Experiment in which participant faked meltdown, only to be able to go on some exam.
No, let the Stanford prison experiment, aside with summer camp experiment, be thrown away in a historical waste bin
Scifi neo-feudalism would be the most livable imo
Even though I love the cyberpunk aesthetic especially when in the 80s like blade runner or ghost in the shell
It's your birthday, some gives you a calfskin wallet.
@@Adelina-293RAHHH WHAT THE FUCK IS A COMFORT 🦅🦅 I will charge into battle 5% more ferociously for he, the generous who leads by the sword
@@crocs4304 Dawg, you're gonna be farming 'taters on some dudes estate while living as a serf.
@@Otto_Von_Beansmarck As my ancestors gloriously and honorable ate raw potatoes in a field, so shall I!
@@sanctus864 potatoes? pfff how about cheap bread
You fucked up hard with the socialism thing at 11:20. Utopian Socialism (a.k.a premarxist socialism) is a completely different movement than marxist, materialist socialism. Marx was an open critic of utopian ideals, even if you think his work could be adopted as utopic by the eastern regimes.
I am transgender. I am also intersex. I am not transgender because of bureaucracy. I am transgender *in spite of it*
I am sorry if they are weaponizing my genuine needs in ways that affect you. I don’t control what they do. I still have those needs.
Most of my worst problems around it are a result of the fact that when I was born some doctor or nurse glanced at my genitals and then decided how I should live my life for me, because 99% of the time that works for people. I am one of the exceptions.
I was assigned male at birth. I do not see myself as male.
About halfway through puberty my body stopped doing puberty. My voice never dropped. I never developed an Adam’s apple. I developed b cup breasts. My genitals did not fully develop.
I have since taken actions to consensually change my body to match what you might call my “inner self.” You say you are or were a trad Catholic? Then I hope you understand the idea of a person having something deep inside of them they cannot fully explain which is so powerful they have no real choice but to follow it.
I get it if you feel like you are being brainwashed or forced to accept a state ideology. Let’s agree: these people are shit. What they do to both of us is shitty.
I am not asking them to hurt you. I am asking you to respect my humanity. I am not an abstract academic concept. I am not a birth certificate or a couple of chromosomes. I am not a simple label like “male” or “female” because my body and sense of self do not care about them.
Please don’t give them more power over me by making my documentation mean more than my lived experience, or by reducing me to what other people say about me when I’m not there.
Finally an expression of pure raw humanity.
Yeah, I was gonna say that this video being anti-trans made it pretty easy to dismiss. The idea that bureaucrats want to use trans people to control what everyone else thinks is some Jordan Peterson level nonsense. It's just the latest in conservative backlashes to human rights. We did this with gay people and we did this with the civil rights era. Not to mention the idea that treating people the same is somehow a means of controlling people. That definitely collapsed into nonsense pretty quickly.
And there was no real response to the paradox of tolerance. Just "it's mush"? Ok, what do you disagree with exactly? If you tolerate an intolerant view, like gay people shouldn't be allowed to exist in society, you are necessarily being intolerant of gay people. Thus you're being intolerant even though you were trying to be tolerant. It's like how democracy can not survive an anti-democratic party being elected. It's the paradox of democracy.
@@jackskellingtonsorayeah it’s like people are treating a mental/physical condition as “they are brainwashing the masses” and it’s ridiculous.
This is the best breakdown of what dystopia is that I've ever seen. I'm definitely using all this to rethink the book of protopian short sci-fi stories that I'm writing right now. The power imbalance of social roles as the starting point where things go wrong, and the extent of dehumanization as being the key metric of dystopianism, those are some pretty useful concepts.
PS: Protopianism is positing that the actually realistic and desirable way of making the future better is focusing on making small immediate helpful steps forward in constructive directions, rather than focusing on any sort of ideal perfect end state of society. It's especially not compatible with pitting any class against any other class or trying to do dramatic revolutions.
I think that’s a good idea it’s probably why Petersons “clean your room” became such a hard hitting meme we have people out here trying to upend major inequalities who individually aren’t even practicing being nice to their mother
An example of a warrior dystopia is the Clans of Battletech
I would say Battletech as a whole. The Inner Sphere is a feudalistic society given how hard is to destroy a mech making warrior class thrive and possible. Currently the decline of warrior class is because how easy to kill a nobleman or possible soldier that could be a future noble with modern guns.
I'd argue all of Battletech is a warrior dystopia. The Houses of the Inner Sphere get their power from their warrior mechs. Maybe Comstar has more of a religious bent, especially with the word of blake fanatics, but the rest of the factions are all Noble Houses, like in Dune. The Clans represent a more primitive warrior culture attacking a more established one, like the Mongols or Vikings attacking the established Kingdoms of Europe and hte Middle East.
Solid example.
@@levongevorgyan6789 Well the video did argue that feudal dystopia is the least dystopic society. It's still battletech does has some element of dystopia given that the Capellan Confederation exist and it's is a mix of bureaucratic dystopia in the sea of feudal dystopia.
Average civilian dies in Battletech due to the ambition of elites of the Inner Sphere. Comstar is the bureaucratic and scholar elements of SLDF that still exist after the civil war but it slowly turn into another theocratic-bureaucratic dystopic faction in the setting.
@@levongevorgyan6789it's a fundamental misunderstanding that the houses derive their power from the battlemechs.
The houses are ancient families that hold overwhelming economic , political and military power. Battlemechs are de facto an inefficient weapon on a strategic scale but very efficient in small scale tactical warfare. They minimize collateral damage and thus minimize the negative impact of warfare on trade and infrastructure.
If anything mech combat is more civilized than the warfare of today where cluster munitions are used to carpet bomb civilian population centers because some extremists fired a sugar rocket from a random backyard.
The clans in battletech are your perfect warrior distopia
As are the rest of the Houses, tbh. They're the medieval kingdoms to the Clans mongol or viking raider.
@@levongevorgyan6789 I agree but would say it's a matter of degrees. It depends on which faction and when. The crusader clans during the clan invasion are pretty much the quintessential example though.
A warrior caste system where you can legitimately murder your way to the top as long as you call it a batchall
Funnily enough, when the people in charge only know how to fight they don't see the inherent issues in an 800 light year supply chain
After all, you don't need knowledge of grand-scale logistics to AC20 a cockpit window...
"I believe the Catholic Church is the best institution throughout history, since I am Catholic after all" My guy, no.
"Dystopia" is not the opposite of "Utopia". "Utopia" is derived from "Ou" and "Topos" aka a place that does not exist. The opposite of dystopia would likely be "Eytopia".
I'd really love to hear your take on Transformers One. Not only is it a good brothers-to-enemies movie, I think there are some interesting insights on divine right and tyranny that could be taken from it. Thanks!
commenting for boost
For it does have social issue it hatred between both class ,caste or two group where Cybertron live in good lives in cities and whereas decepticons living in bad lives but still live together there still discrimination exist between them where decepticons have face they rebel want dignity but megatrons hatred let Cybertron deception war where thousands died even planet destroy megatrons become tranny it show how from First it was peaceful they just right one leader spread hatred use that for gain to live tranny just like how real world leader use they protect group so he get political rule
Boosting this post...
Boosting
Boosting
Post COVID - V for Vendetta hits very different.
No, it do not
V for Vendetta already completely misrepresents the facts. The most-coddled group of all time IRL gets portrayed as victims in that movie. The bullies posing as victims, as always.
@@NostalgicGamerRickOShaybro what are you on about? It’s a story about anarchy vs totalitarianism which is the coddled group? And tho sure the anarchist V is portrayed as the protagonist it dosnt even fully agree anarchy would be better. Unless you mean the film in which case it’s a lot less complicated and is more of a modern liberal take on overthrowing a fascist and racist government in which case again don’t get the criticism as yes putting people in concentration camps is in deed bad
@@NostalgicGamerRickOShay just like the real person it's based on!
@@NostalgicGamerRickOShay rich white men are indeed the most-coddled group of all time
2:36 Code Geass has to be one of my favorite works of fiction, so it was cool to have ol’ Charles and Lelouch in the compilation!
Cringe...
@@velstadtvonausterlitz2338 😐
@@velstadtvonausterlitz2338 Just let people enjoy the works of art they are passionate about. Calling the wholesome appreciation of an art 'cringe' is not cool, it's rude and disrespectful. 😡
That's Reuenthal and Schönkopf. Alas Code Geass is awesome.
@@raygiovano1984 Are you talking about the Legend of Galactic Heroes clip right before it? I might have mistimed my clipping.
Dude, commenting again because I can't get over how much I'm enjoying this. You deserve more subscribers.
I am surprised that His Dark Materials isn't mentioned in this video, since it fits well with the Theocratic Dystopia since the antagonistic Magisterium/the Church was Theocratic in its enforcement of its values, and also, they deem anyone heretics to go against them. It's interesting how they implement the fantastical elements like Dust and Daemons. Since they saw Dust as the source of free thought which what caused the First Sin by Adam and Eve. We know that it is bullish but that just shows how tight the Magisterium wanted to control everything in twisted Theocratic means.
Note I am Christian myself, and I find the Magisterium as a warning to any religion from going extreme especially in how that can lead to twisted interpretations if they're not checked.
Oh and also, I wish you could also analyse this very interesting case with Imperial Japan since that nation had elements found in both Warrior and Theocratic Dystopias with the former Samurai class taking over major positions in Japan's military which influenced in Japan's militarism and expansion. And deifying and worshiping the Emperor of Japan as a living God, and obviously any one who opppose would be viewed a heretic. Japan is a very weird and interesting take in this.
Great video btw.
Honey, Wake up! Pilgrims Pass uploaded a new video!
Weird that you haven’t mentioned Brave New World yet but I’m still watching the video
edit: The first mention is at 17:30
Yeah we already have seen what is coming and methods future dictators will and have used in history.
The one definition of Dystopia I've always subscribed to was "failed Utopia"
I think the biggest cause of failure is seeking to solve all of the problems. We don't live for the solutions, we live for the problem-solving process. If you want to craft a utopia, it needs to give people things to do, and those things need to feel like freedom and productivity.
@@TheReaverOfDarkness Sounds like you would enjoy reading Walden Two by B.F. Skinner.
In Egypt the Priest were also the Scientist. They created Gemstones and Metal alloys no one else had. Its where we get Chemistry from as its the Land of Khem. Maybe that is the Key to a powerful society. The ruling class needs to be a conglomeration of all classes. It not only allows lowers to rise through the ranks by mastery of the skills of other classes but makes the ruling class viewed as powerful by all those in every class as they are masters of all and worthy of respect.
The builders of the pyramids were well paid professionals too.
I’m Deeply Theocratic. GODs Men vs A.I Nephilim🗡️👑✝️
Dude my wife read your book or at least she described one exactly like yours to me
What was it called?
@@michaelhickman7369
Spill the tea brother 😉
What book ser?
What's book called, can't find it anywhere
It’s called dragon age Veilguard 😢😢😢
As someone who lives in a country where the warrior class is in charge, it is true that people generally think that soldiers are cool.
Luckily, the beaurocrats are also pretty high up. So everything is nice and efficient so far.
What country do you live in?
@crusader2112 I live in Rwanda
@ Oh okay thank you.
@crusader2112 You're welcome. By the way, when I said it is nice, I mean't in a peaceful, secure, tranquil type of way.
People from places like the USA, where there is less government oversight (more crime but more excitement), might not enjoy it as much.
@ Okay, interesting. Thank you. 👍
As with most of you videos I agree with most of what you say, but you solution is again too straight forward. "Ethics" being necessary for a functioning society is what you would call the "priest class" exercising their vision of society. Ethics are not fundamental, what is ethical one day might be unethical the next. But yes, balance is the key to a healthy society and human health in general
WhatIfAltHist talked about the whole balance of power in many of his videos.
What made Europe rise to such heights was that the various ruling classes were balanced in power, while in the other Eurasian Civilizations one or two ruling classes had coopted their cultures and led them to stagnate.
Pilgrim: "There is no more warrior ruling classes"!
Afghanistan: "I'm joke to you"? 😢
That's currently more closely a Theocracy.
The book you wrote sounds more interesting than Uglies and Hungergames
I can't wait to find out the title.
Riseth, the Pilgrim comes to us once more
Thought the day couldn't get any better..then this 😁
We're moving towards Huxely's world
And while everyone drowns in hedonism,the politicians turning the world into 1984. If nobody stops this we're all fcked.
Hunger Games is definitely NOT socialism 💀
Yeah, like it's a pretty naked critique of capitalism
1984 is also a critique of Stalinism, not socialism, considering George Orwell was a Democratic Socialist and never renounced Socialism
Way more facist with the obsession with hierarchy
@@evildavid8957 You mean Communist. They only care about their position.
Socialism controls society through central government, all revolutionaries are totalitarian in their demands.
@@evildavid8957 it is not, really. The point of 1984 is pure totalitarianism
You have convinced me to pull out the chainmail and short swords.
If you liked Priest, have you read "A Bloody Habit" by Eleanor Bourg Nicholson? It's also about vampire hunting priests, but with sound theology. Seriously.
Thanks for the recommendation
Just read the actual priest comics.
Pilgrim, I need the title of your book. It sounds like a completely unhinged variant of a mad quest to kill a god (the satanic cult in this one), which would be better than most dystopian novels.
ATTACK AND DETHRONE GOD
I love so much your videos. The themes, examples, fluent edit and sense of humour. I'm so glad I found your channel
Thank you for explaining. I wish my Philosophy classes were like this
18:30 "Imagine _Percy Jackson_ and _The Hunger Games_ had a kid who became an edgy Political Science student at _Dune_ University and played _waaaay_ too much _Warhammer 40,000_ with his buddies."
... Okay. You have my attention.
He's talking about the Red Rising series and it's very good! It does start out a bit 'young adult' but it finds its footing. I'm currently on the fifth book and am really enjoying it!
Honey, wake up. Pilgrims Pass uploaded.
Epic video. The Warrior Aristocracy or Cyberpunk might be the best to live in, but a cyberpunk merchant-led world commodifies everything and modern warfare doesn’t mix well with the warrior aristocracy. (Rip Kaiser Karl) I agree, the classes must and need to work together for a society to truly prosper. Great video 👍 Peace ✌🏻
Interesting how different "main" gamelines of World of Darkness tabletop RPGs have these different types of dystopia as "the crushing system":
Vampire: the Masquarade - the warrior class dystopia of hyper powerful acient vampire mafia bosses, where power is often corresponding heavily with actual combat prowess, where the weak are simply pawns and the only pernament way to advancing is to take this personal power directly for yourself by defeating (either directly or any being clever) someone more powerful and literally devouring their soul.
Mage the Ascension - the beurocratic type. Technocracy is the shadow cabal that promises progress in technology, but seeks the complete control, crushing individuality and wants to turn everyone into cog in the machine by eventually spiritually lobotomizing entire humanity (they are also commonly treated on Reddit as "actual good guys", because their opponents are "qanon antivaxxers" and "science is good", ignoring the fact that there are science-oriented mage traditions opposing the Technocracy)
Werewolf the Apocalypse - combo of merchant and theocratic, there is Pentex the megacorp secretly filled with supernatural weirdoes, they making a lot of money and are spiritually alligned with the forces that are opposing the Earth itself and as such, the Pentex seeks to destroy the environment both for profit (which gives influence) and for the sake of it. Its honestly kinda cartoonish, but again, the game itself has a reputation of "that game where you play as a furry Ted Kaczynski". (this game also tends to bring critcism on Reddit, despite anti-capitalism and environmentalism because "science technology good" and werewolves themselves are rather... VERY much anti-modernity)
I am generally noticing the trend when the "gameline evil establishment" comes of as more "modern" than player characters, Redditors often see the fundamental problem (notice how Vampire the Masquarade, the gameline that has the least controvercy over its basic premise have "the evil establishment" being essentially pre-modern might-makes-right people who were often literally born in pre-modern times, while the player-friendly opposition to them is way more "modern"), despite in the setting itself none of player character groups are really "the good guys", just mostly desiring its own interests.
In _Werewolf,_ I'd argue the whole thing is theocratic. Pentex is, indeed, a corporation, but it's under the control of a theocratic elite, and the werewolf tribes as a whole are also theocratic, though not all to the same extent. Mind, it makes a difference when your patron deity actually does stuff.
I'd argue about _Mage,_ since the default PC mage groups are closer to religious orders, but mages are still humans, and that means however they believe reality 'actually' works, they're forced to spend most of their lives in the consensus reality created and maintained by the Technocracy.
☝️🤓erm hunger = socialism” ahh type video 😂😂
Did you watch it?
One could become a Philosophy teacher by just playing your videos in class and discussing them. Thanks for once more making me think hard on all the possible forces that shape humanity 😄
(15:26) This wasn't actually true for large portions of Chinese history, and throughout Chinese history social ranks have shifted greatly. Initially, during the Western Zhou, under the social system known as the 國野制, soldiers were equal to the scholar-bureaucrats, and merchants and artisans were placed above peasants, but with the abolition of the 國野制, the peasants began to rise in social status. When the Legalist Qin Dynasty came to power, they placed merchants and artisans below peasants, as they wanted the population to consist of an impoverished peasantry stuck to their land to reduce their power relative to the government, and the existence of merchants threatened this. The rise of the Eastern Han relied on the merchant class' rebellion again Wang Mang, and their social status started to rise again, but when the Eastern Han began to collapse, the social status of both merchants and soldiers began to do so as well, however the equal-field system of the Northern Wei created a hereditary military caste and restored the high social status of the soldiers. This social system remained in place until the late Tang Dynasty, when the powerful imperial aristocracy disappeared and the military seized power and elevated themselves above the scholar-bureaucrats. Shortly afterward, after the Song Dynasty reunited China, the military lost power again, and in reaction to their abuse of power over the past century, the soldiers were dropped to the bottom of the social ladder, while the rise of commerce meant that merchants and artisans started to rise up the social ladder once more, until by the late Ming Dynasty they were more or less equal to peasants.
I've struggled to figure out the dystopia setting of my own story for awhile now, having different conflicting ideas that I'd like to incorporate. This video was great and gave me a much better idea of where to go with it!
Saw thumbnail with Hunger Games as socialism...feel that's late stage capitalism too lol
I’d go sci-fi medievalismand feudalism and the theocratic traditionalism, specifically 40k’s sci-fi feudalistic theocracy
You best start loving cyberpunk dystopias, you're in one
Where is Sandevistan, then?
We'll get 1984 long before we get Cyberpunk. The managerial class has all the cards, and is currently able to pick and choose the winners in the merchant class. Meanwhile, the merchants that you believe will become the supercorps of tomorrow are busy buying off bureaucrats to maintain their status quo.
Nah. We're leaning towards a theocracy. The evangelicals in the US will have all the power as of January 2025 and they'll quickly ban anything science-y that goes against their wretched dogma.
Eh, the threat of coup from Warriors becomes ever-present. Cyberpunk dystopia is enabled by the political gridlock of the age of liberalism, I don't know how long that'll last. Some day people will realize the primal truth of blood, steel & fire as the supreme dictators; not suits in boardrooms.
This channel slaps
By the gods that Intro Made me feel so many things.
Battletech actually has all types of these Dystopias in it. Let me show you.
Bureaucratic dystopia:
Capellan Confederation and Draconis Combine
Capitalist Dystopia:
Free Worlds League and Magistracy of Canopus
Theocratic Dystopia:
Comstar and Word of Blake, the Society
Warrior dystopia:
The Clans
It is honestly what makes the setting so interesting, you have different kinds of dystopias intersecting.
I say I would live in a Cyberpunk because it's the familiar to the me
That is because we already live in it... Turns out is a Lot more lamer that we imagine
@juanfranciscovillarroelthu6876 Yeah I was thinking of the game not real life because we don't have the cool stuff
@@juanfranciscovillarroelthu6876 Give Elon another 10-20 years. At the very least, we're getting Kiroshi's and neural ports.
Also, you're conflating communism and fascism. Communism isn't a political system it is a economic one. The reason most of the communist countries listed resemble fascist ones is because they are fascists.
Who would've known that having to enforce tight controls or bans over private property and free trade would lead to fashy tendencies 🤔
@Leitis_Fella ...Who would have known that allowing corporations to buy politicians off with campaign donations and under the table gifts would lead to facist tendencies?
I'm not suggesting communism is the answer. But we're seeing *right now* how capitalism can also slide into fascism. I think a balance is the only thing that would work, where people get paid proportionally to their skills, but have taxes that effectively cap personal wealth to a few tens of millions as a maximum, and then use that money to fund programs that help everyone. Like infrastructure, healthcare, and education. With strong separation between politics and money.
@@Leitis_Fella
Oh you don't have enough credits to live sorry
@@Leitis_Fellayeah they were certainly fascist not communist
I wonder why communism in the real world always ends up looking like fascism…..maybe because in practice, they aren’t all that different. Because Enforcing equality requires oppressive controls and a ruling class.
29:20 "if the individual cannot be trusted to define what is a woman from simple physical observation, like who has a vagina"
but that's the point. how many of the women you meet have you physically observed to have a vagina? if she looks like what you think fits the "woman" archetype, and she acts like what you think is the "woman" archetype, then she's ostensibly passed your "simple physical observation"-test.
Wanted to thank the author for giving me a new perspective on social structure, dynamics with his videos. Especially, on the ways of humanity's progress. You are partially responsible for my appreciation of Warhammer setting, your videos on that topic helped me to look at it from another angle, and to actually like that ridiculous universe.
Love your well thought ramblings! Fun as well!
Thank you very much!
Most systems could work relatively well in a vacuum without the primary error (humans), but that is never the case because all systems are made of humans and humans are flawed and corrupt.
Thus there will never be a utopia.
“From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me.”
Corrupt? No. Humanity is ignorant and society/capitalism is designed to encourage short-term thinking. I think we simply lack the mental tools and ideal economic/political system to change how humanity as a whole functions
@@def3ndr887 Deeds indue
@theonpointheavy4401 theocracy,hypercapitalism and totalitarian socialism are all bad ideas it isn't just people alone
@@def3ndr887🦾🦾🦾
A new Pilgrims Pass video-essay?
Boy, Christmas DID come early this year!
Jokes aside, I love your content.
Thank you for all the work you do! ❤
Edit: I wrote the comment about as soon as I clicked on the video.
But after watching it- (And noting down pages of it) Oh Dear.
This one is Great.
I wish more people followed you.
Strange that Pilgrim included lots of footage from Legends of the Galactic Heroes but didn’t mentioned much about it in the video.
When you have all 4 dystopias combined, you pretty much get real life.
Tho the idea of balance of power of the classes is great, it’s worth noting that balancing interest and of each class, is the duty of the bureaucrat class.
If any class is getting overpowered, the naturally diplomatic and negotiative bureaucrat class is most likely to make concessions and allies with the powerful class to maintain power rather than overthrown.
Which pretty means the bureaucratic dystopia with a secondary capitalistic/theocratic/militaristic theme is probably the most likely.
It might be out of the scope of this video but fortunately, dystopia can only really exist in a vacuum. Out of balance society/dystopia are weakened civilizations, likely to be overthrown by revolution, or conquered by other healthier civilizations.
This is what happened in the Legend of the Galactic Heroes. The decadent nobles of the empire was overthrown in a revolution, and the corrupt bureaucratic alliance was conquered by the new empire.
If dystopia is defined by dehumanization, then the imperfections of human nature is probably the best defense against all forms of dystopias.
Cowardice help humans to avoid the brute force of warriors and stab them in the back.
Pride helps humans to brush off the nonsense preachings of the priest and ridicule them with smart trolling.
Laziness help humans ignore the advertisements of the merchants and bargain for the lowest price.
Anger drives humans to seek justice and overthrows the inhumane laws set by the bureaucrats.
Our instincts and emotions helped us survive natural selection, it would probably also help us survive our creations.
And yes I will probably choose cyberpunk too. You can get the perfect robot waifu
or conquered by other healthier civilizations.
@@anotherbacklog
Almost every intro in the 1988 anime of all four seasons (110 episodes), quote,
"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same."
Influencers are a Priest class?
So that means Zyzz is basically our version of St.Gregory the Great? I don't think I will ever be able to unsee that.
We're all gonna make it
I know it was only mentioned a few times but I crackled with excitement every time he mentioned Red Rising. God I love that series, it is by far my favorite sci fi series ever. Hail Reaper!
Talking about these four castes in the conclusion got me pondering about their compatriots in Dungeons & Dragons: The managerial Wizard, the merchant Thief, the priestly - Priest and the Warrior, who... wars, and how they each best compliment the other or get wiped in an old school dungeon.
The most dystopian is thinking "free market" is real
Dont forget thinking socialism is a good thing 😂
@coreymeredith4001 yeah is is when the system is in control of the people Democratically, Also known as a dictatorship of the prolateriat.
@@coreymeredith4001 You might wanna google that term, you look kinda dumb.
Yea, just steal everything from socialism, but dilute it and make it soulless and as profitable as possible and call it "crapitalism."
"Free market" 101
Steal from socialism and dilute it until it's as søulless and as profitable as possible, "free market" 101
This was the best breakdown I’ve ever seen and honestly if there’s a book correlated with this type of breakdown I’d love a recommendation. Blew it out of the water man, recommended this video to some friends. Thank you for the video
This is a great analysis. It's nice that you also put out your biases, and still made a very level-headed discussion of it all, even on topics that run counter to your beliefs. Rare to find.
Also Cyberpunk is the best. We're basically already living it. At least I can get cool tech too.
also this is inherently flawed - a corporation with enough power can totally be an own "autoctratic nation" (where is the line) and thus can mirror any or every of the aspects mentioned. truth is that it is not all that different nor distinct.
And yet those corporations gain power from consumer choice. Capitalism = freedom of commerce, and the common man literally gifts them their level of power.
Capitalism tendency would win over, no better rule than the peasants willingly offering you their souls
Just to clarify something, socialism as a whole is not about "abolishing property rights", or even, arguably, equality. It may lead to that, as it may lead to communism in one of its extreme forms, but it's certainly not a defining trait common to all forms of socialism. The same way that capitalism may lead to dystopia if met with a total lack of regulation.
Didn't you see the comment , I don't think people here even care to read 😅
@@urooj09 Which comment? Sorry if I haven't read all 1600 comments... 😒
Do you mean private property or personal property or both?
@@bramvanduijn8086 The video doesn't make the distinction, which is what I'm pointing. But yes, socialism only revolves around private property, and not personal property, or anything else for that matter.
I just realized that the four types of common dystopia closely mirror the four kinds of civilizational phases that most nations experience (in different orders) as they are created, develop, and eventually die.
Typically with Western Civilizations (or those occupying the areas that are denoted as West) from as far back as Classical Greco-Roman times follow this specific order as they are born, grow, and eventually collapse into a dark age style anarchy leading to the next latest successive incarnation of itself.
First Phase: Primordial Theocratic Society run by Priestly Ruling Class. Their rule typically begins from before the new society’s birth from the ashes of the preceding society they are the idea generations that help evolve the declining and dying civilizations into the newer vitality having versions of themselves.
Second Phase: Rebellious Gilded Age Society run by Ascendant Merchant Class. They are inevitable pushback against the overbearing nature of the now declining Priest Class who had repress the rest of their society in an ironic twist killing the legitimacy of faith based ruling orders foreseeable future. Setting up the secular cycle that leads to the bureaucratic phase that is the natural counterbalance to the merchant class abuses in absence of faith.
Third Phase: Maturing and Stagnant Bureaucratic and/or Technocratic Age Society run by titular Bureaucrats or the Technocrats who are the secular antithesis to the Merchants and the earlier Theocrats. Which is generally the shorter lived of the phases that will eventually lead to the ascendance of the warrior castes as their own ironic antithesis.
Fourth Phase: Longest lived phase of the attempted to revitalize Warrior Aristocracy Society run by the Warrior Aristocrats who aim to preserve, restore, or at least stave off the final decline and collapse of their society into anarchic ruin. They manage their society until it’s eventual ruination by entropic forces beyond their control left over from the failed bureaucratic phase. Which then sets up the new primordial ooze and religious beliefs that create the next incarnation of the dead society in the aftermath from its nesting eggs.
Rule by the Warrior Caste is best explained by the philosophy of Julius Evola
No matter the dystopia, it boils down to a reality of hopelessness. That's the common theme. That's the difference between topia and dystopia. There are people suffering under dystopia. There's plenty of people in the world who have no means to survive due to social systems. Some are born starving, worked to death, or were killed before they're born. They're not given a fair chance at living. For them it's a dystopia.
you mention you're the merchant class, but as you communicate and explain your worldview to others, does that not also make you somewhat part of the priest class? you've definitely changed my way of thinking about certain things.
edit: you go on to explain that people can occupy multiple of these roles. either way, thank you for these amazing videos!
He was not forcing it into you or preaching. He just sharing what his perspective and understanding. Nothing like a dystopian priest class.
It’s honestly a bit of a shame that a lot of people don’t know the difference between socialism and communism
And Fascism is dad saying no. Nationalism and Patriotism is the exact same thing.
You can really blame that on marx(and engels) who integrated classical socialism with the monstrosity that became communism. Now, socialism has become (societally) antithetical to capitalism (while in reality the systems do not exist contrary to eachother).
The soviet-union was not Communist though, it was a totalitarian extreme of socialism, with the eventual goal of "communism". Which is silly considering they would have never made it there.
They follow the same mentality
@ to an extent but they differ greatly on the authoritarian to Libertarian scale.
It's a moot point when people can't tell the difference between fascism and either socialism or communism. I guess some fascist societies we call fascist but other ones we just let them define themselves?