The Future of Fast Charging? EVBox and ABB at CES 2023
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Mike Oakes makes his Munro Live debut to learn about EVBox's new offerings, while Sandy heads to ABB to discuss their plans for the future of home, public, and fleet charging.
Learn more about EVBox: evbox.com/us-en/
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#CES #ABB #EVBOX
Hate to say it (not really) but no matter how fancy the charging solution and station design, no one thus far has introduced something that has come close to the Tesla Supercharger in convenience, reliability and design. No cards and screens, no flashing lights, no moving parts, no dragging cables. Regulators, charging providers and auto makers of all brands could achieve the same if they actually wanted to work together and create a compelling universal product and service.
Its all about looks not function.
I will always have enough battery left to get to another charger unless the one i am aiming for is a Tesla Supercharger, so that is saying something. Though i do love the Kempower design with a smart and modular system. If i have both an RFID card and an app i will probably trust the Kempowers too. Alpitronic Hyperchargers are pretty nice too, but ABB (Always Be Broken) i would rather stay away from, sadly they are popular in my region.
No dragging knuckles, is why!..... 🦍
@@jaken005 so you spend all day driving around & around your Kempower chargers while thinking up how to word your UA-cam adverts to get Ad revenue from Kempower?
Tesla chargers are actually some of the simplest chargers there are, which is the reason they work so well. All the other chargers trying to one up each other with fancy displays and features just leads to problems with reliability.
Sandy - You and your wife's personal experiences in charging is soooo valuable to me. Thank you for sharing.
Yeah, SMART wife's NEVER telling.
I don't know the running time in detail, but in Germany I've already seen dozens of Terra 360 that just don't work. Also the Terra HP 175 fast is a heap of rubbish, it was used a lot in the E.On charging networks in Germany, but the RFID readers and the payment terminals often fail, so that I basically don't go there anymore.
Don't know if those are available in the US, but both Alpitroniq and Kempower are super reliable. Yes and of course the Tesla Supercharger
I sure hope that Kempower comes to North America. We need reliable CCS chargers!
In Europe ABB chargers are the worst DC chargers. Had so many problems unfortunately! Alpitronic an Tesla are by far the most reliable out of the most common fast chargers here!
Hi, Can you tell, ABB chargers worst in what aspects..? how about safety point in charging... Learning about chargers, and taking ABB as reference...thats why curious...
We have a lot of EVBox chargers here in Europe (I'm in France). They proven to be very unrealiable and never deliver the power advertised
Great, sounds like Electrify America. Worse one that gets most of the federal money in the US.
Thank you
I'm so sorry 2 hear that!! reliability, performance & Ingenuity! doesn't this help move us forward as a society? the
Ingenuity from countries should be ''no fail'' laws!! good luck for the future & best regards!
You should NOT need an account in order to charge. There should be an open payment system where you can pull up, present a payment, and charge. Imagine having to have an app and permission to get "gas"? This needs to change to open use without playing the games with apps etc.
Have they tested these in extreme cold? Kyle at Out of Spec Reviews has shown the new chargers are not surviving the cold temps. Sandy is right on the money ABB was the only one that was alive during the cold.
Hell yeah it’s stupid. It can’t last.
I’m pretty sure Electrify American and EVGo stations have credit card facilities that accept payment without network membership.
I love it how Sandy just takes over the ABB guy to talk about the need for better installations!
As long as someone has a 200 amp panel which has enough spare capacity (load calculators are available), most people should be able to install a charger themselves. I've seen some of the work licensed electricians have done at other people's houses and it was barely legal using builder grade components. I saved money doing the installation myself using top components, it's not tough at all. The worst part is pulling wire but even that can be done in an afternoon worst case scenario, actually it's patching all the drywall holes and re painting that really sucks, but a lot of electricians around here won't cover it, and refer another contractor to do the patch/paint work.
4:00 why not reduce how much wire is exposed? It shouldn't be long enough to drag on the ground, especially since that was a selling point. Does it also lock in the top wire until the transaction is started?
I've been using a regular (just plugs in, so special features or connectivity) Leviton 9.6 kW charger, it always works, never given me a problem for years in all weather. I'm surprised they haven't been covered more by charger reviewers. It might be the price though, these days the same basic Leviton charger costs twice as much as what I bought mine for.
Not aware of EVBox details but know ABB as huge player in power systems. Like they have been for ever designing and delivering power systems.
And doing it badly, if the comments are to be believed.
It is still early days but long term vehicle charging needs to automated enough that it is out of sight and out of mind. In other words park at work or home in a charging spot and walk away. Make it more convenient than filling with gas. Eventually it may only be long trips where a bit of effort and forward planning is needed.
Sandy, can you look at what research is being done to charge vehicles while they are driving down the highway? I know there is some of this being done just don't know how far along it is or how they will charge for the service. I think this will be especially useful for long haul trucks etc. but maybe cars and pickups too. If they could do this on all of the major hiways then they would only need their batteries for the last few miles to and from the onload and offload points.
8:40 Re: Terra Home. I’m really excited about suppliers bundling installation with durable products. That’s the main reason I’m going with Tesla Glass Solar Tiles. I.e., You get what you (don’t) pay for.
South Italy 🇮🇹 there just 2 suc in Calabria total 8 stalls and then they’re most of them 50 kw Enel x and 22 kw and 2 stalls IONITY of 350kw
Great info thank you.
"Yeah", "Yeah" in background makes a bit annoying. Sorry
ABB manufactured and installed in Estonia first countrywide fast charging network for electric vehicles , 2012
what i don't like about all these companies who make chargers is they all want to make chargers but no one wants the task of installing them throughout the USA.
Tesla did it and it works great.
All of they other companies buy some chargers from here from there and etc. This is just a hot mess and nothing works. Long travel still being done by ice or tesla for a while to come.
Yep. Zero connectivity to the cars like Tesla.
Sandy and associates, Mighty links. Thanks for the news. Dreming of working with all: Ceating beds, pans and statc charging platforms; Manufattured with GreenTough Materials.
someone needs to come up with a shading solution for those screens. Here in Florida you can't see a thing and sun burns the screens out in no time. Charge point actually went back to small 9 segment displays. Far better read able then those large flashy monitors. I know why Tesla doesn't have displays ;)
The limitation to fast charging isn’t just the charger itself but battery characteristic governed by its technology. Characteristics such as rated voltage, safe and sustainable charge rate, charge temperature, and cyclic charge aging rate under those conditions.
If all else stay as is a charge rate of 18 seconds to full charge calls for a cable nearly 18 inches diameter.
A high rated charger in this situation becomes a peripheral.
Liquid cooled cables are indeed a thing
@@jimmaag4274 yes 18” diameter is based on liquid coolant. Does that meets your approval?
Get rid of the dam screen and card.... Integrate an atachment to the J1772 that reads via RF and communicates vin verification and have an app that automatically shows the car attached as well as state of charge ext.
That first “level 2” that they showed is nuts: taller than a person and has a screen at lest as large as my iPad (what for?!) all that for a misery level 2?? And that last little box with the wood veneer: what is that light around its edge for? my charger has to live right outside my bedroom window. I made sure to buy a charger with NO lights for that very reason. What’s happening? I thought Lean Design was about the best part is no part.
Sandy
The AC "fast charging" described seems really fuzzy. I'm not sure anyone understands what Level 2 actually means. Why can't we stick to kilowatts? Then we would understand how seriously ineffective most of these AC chargers using the J1772 plug. This plug appears to be totally inadequate to create a North American AC charging network as it forces very large conductors and is not compatible with commercial distribution voltages. On the other hand, the European Type 2 plug supports over 20 kW at just about every European street corner with only 32 Amp conductors. The Type 2 connector equivalent in North America is the J3068 which can support 120V to 480/600 V single and three phase.
1. Why is the SAE J3068 plug not being implemented on our EVs? It can provide power flows up to 30 kW with only 32 Amp conductors. The installation cost on commercial buildings would be greatly reduced due to smaller conductors and network simplicity (i.e. no transformers!). This would allow very effective charging almost everywhere.
2. Why would we require the EVSE ("charger") to supply the power cable? This configuration is vulnerable and costly. I'd rather use my own vehicle appropriate cable assembly. The chargers I saw in Scandinavia were a lot more reliable and available without the cables. KEEP IT SIMPLE.
One engineer to another, this EVSE AC charging situation doesn't make sense.
Great interview at ABB. Hope you and your wife figure how to solve your Rivian charging problems.
Maybe collaborate with out of spec on UA-cam
Anything from Schneider Electric? Seems the are missing the boat with EV
Why does everyone make chargers with screens?
I feel like US should go with the EU way of EV owners providing their own cables.
That's a LOT of cables
That just introduces more wear point's. Wireless induction charging is the way forward. Nobody can unplug you or steal your charger.
And v2x is easier with induction as well. New pilot program are now proving from wall to vehicle the losses are equivelant to wired chargers.👍🏻
Tesla's chargers should be the standard for the industry. I don't know when they will realise that.
Great. So where is all the required current coming from (infrastructure) with all the expected demand for EV vehicles? No new power plants are in the works as far as I know.
A mega pack at the charger buffering the demand, plus the pay back on the peak of switching to led bulb , UK figure show peak is down 8+ percent from the 1990s high.
Does anyone making single phase, DC chargers up to 10 kw for home use
Didn’t like 1set of Munro people they just sounded like yuuuup men. So glad to see Sandy in the 2nd half.
Excited about a cable management system and 44kw system? What?
Oh come on! that EVBox with the giant J1772 connectors hanging off the unit at that angle might last a day being "locked" to the base. Retractable cord... OMG as if that's an innovation, that's pathetic! Surely Sandy is laughing at ABB.
Just because Sandy's wife found a working ABB charger in the US should not be an endorsement. Look at this thing... what a smoke show. Anyone really thing this will stand up to someone uninterested in EV's kicking the connector loose and rendering the entire unit inoperable?
Use NACS
19 seconds of into is weak sauce. Quick intro and then get to meat.
Longer intro, you got it!
I feel dirty. Why does this feel like a commercial?
So what happens to the planet, when we disrupt the carbon and it gets too low since plants need carbon to live? 🤔🤔🤷♂️🤷♂️
Electric Pickups need 200Amps service all by themselves. Lets not burn down the house. 250kwh/(220Vx7hours)=162Amps. Plus charging losses. (Plus 25%)
Tesla/industry should work on wireless charging so that one does not even to touch a cable when one gets home. Consider a 110V/220V at 10 amps of wireless charging is plenty when it automatically charges your car every time you get home
Too expensive. It’s too simple and cheap to just plug in the car. Waste of a lot of $ to install wireless EV charging.
Un do your suit button if it fits that bad
What is level 3? Level 3 was never adopted. There's level 1 and 2 AC charging and level 1 and 2 DC charging. Level 3 doesn't exist
In 2023 we are going to see Cybertrucks and Model Y's flying off the shelves. The Tesla charging network is working just fine. This other stuff will not last.
🤓8:09 the gentleman needs little more training & practice from Cory 😉
Meow
Lol
Evbox really screwed investors over. Not buying anything from them
My biggest concern is where and how are we in the US going to produce the electricity for all these evs ??? I don't see this as viable as of now !!!!
It will be no problem by the time most vehicles are electric!
Also most would be charging at night or early morning. When electricity is cheaper and the power plants are not working that hard to produce power because most people are sleeping and businesses are closed. It really isn't a problem if you take a second to think about it logically.
I can't wait until these things are as boring and as commoditised as petrol pumps or vending machines, at that point the revolution is happening. Nobody wants 1400 different "platforms"
Yeah yeah yeah , who cares….
FCPA - ABB has settled with the SEC for a large sum in the last month, just so you know. They have been found out before too.
🥰😍🤑🥸🤓Sandy, how are you this sunny morning in Goonellabah on North Coast NSW, Australia?
1. 350 prefabricated SIPform passive house-certified homes. On the roofs of buildings, the Tractile, the excess electricity will be stored in the 57.6MW Tesla Batteries Farm.
2. The PV in total 934,370m2 - Tractile tiles 45,000m2 and . - Tesla PV panel 887,400m2. The Team and I will add another a million m2 of Arctrech Solar Tracking by 2030.
3. Bi-Charging of BEVs two per house and 12 charging stations in the shopping centre.
4. Micro-grid that connects to a community of 4800 residents. By 2030 we will provide all electricity to 41,500 residents of Lismore, construction period from 2023 to 2030
We will use two Tesla Semi in 2024. 400-volt DC Tesla Super Charger for two Tesla Semi at:
1. SIPform, 4/3 Finance Pl, Malaga WA 6090.
2. BP Truckstop, Eyre Hwy, Coolgardie Esperance Hwy, Norseman, WA 6090.
3. Shell, Eyre Hwy, Nullarbor, SA 5690
4. BP Truckstop, 35 Eyre Hwy, Ceduna SA 5990
5. Shell Coles Express, Port Augusta West Roadhouse, 34 Eyre Hwy 1 Stokes Terrace, Port Augusta West, SA 5700
6. Shell Coles Express Broken Hill, 164 William St, Broken Hill NSW 2880
7. BP Truckstop, 180 Mitchell Hwy, Nyngan NSW 2825
8. Bendemeer Tourist Center, 19 Havannah St, Bendemeer NSW 2355
9. Bunnings Armidale, Corner Barney and Canambe St, Armidale NSW 2350
10. Lismore NSW 2480 to deliver to site SIPform from Perth WA to site at Lismore NSW
We will buy two Tesla Semi to travel SIPform WA to Lismore 2480 once a week there and back. There is another material we can bring back from Queensland to WA Queensland.
30 seconds worth of information buried in 22 minutes of bloviating (i.e. corporate speak BS).
I hope ABB will improve their hardware (and SW) in the future. We have a slogan in Norway: "Always Be Broken"-charger... 🥴
This slogan is very true unfortunately. Greetings from Germany.
Well, in Sweden they work just fine.
Are they in anyway related to EVgo chargers. They stink.
Always Be Broken in the uk too🙏👊
I’ve heard several silly made up acronyms about ABB. I think it’s only because it’s funny and easy to remember, but Ive never seen the proof. Imagine trying to make up an acronym for that brand that really stinks…. Siemens. Nobody would remember it, so it wouldn’t be passed on for generations.
My EVBox experience in Germany is just horrible
Congrats, you were the guinea pig then ;-)
It's astounding how bad charging systems are for a single purpose device. It's only delivering the power, not even applying it.
Why, what specifically? I just realized I own an EvBox Elvi, and it’s been rock solid
@@deandre1988 The Ultra fast Chargers are very unreliable. If you’re lucky you get 37kw, If not you’re not able to charge on a single one of the 5 stalls. Hope they’ll get more reliable
Shocking
Hi Sandy and team!
The best and secure working fast chargers (HPC) in Europe are from #Alpitronic!
You should give them a try, because their big good reading displays shows you not only the stats of the battery and charging power, you get information about Volt, Ampere, kW charge power, soc, time left to full charge etc and the charging curve!
Until now no EV had any communication problems!
I prefer after Tesla SuC only charging stations with #Alpitronic chargers!
😉✌️
It's actually Italian:-)
@@alberts8075
💯 % agreed!
EVBox in Europe is trash just fyi
So thankful for my Tesla Supercharging Network, looks like a frustrating experience with these band-aide chargers. Nope.
KEMPOWER is small…. Those are huge…
Kyle's video Sandy references at 12:56 ua-cam.com/video/fq0RAjJ1PKQ/v-deo.html
sounds like state representatives need 2 watch this video!! as well as state requirements updated!! very helpful presentation....
yup! the big rig!! I hope they get all this legally organised someday!! a green deal 4 chargers! good luck all !!
more of that lean design!! thanks for the footage Sandy!!
It'd be cool to see chargers in the future that could shoot bolts of lightning at vandals or ICEers.
lol
I didn't know ABB made a charger, I only knew them as a Robotics maker
They make way more than just robots and EV chargers
Their big into motor controllers and high voltage shit
In Australasia we recognise ABB for their AC switchgear and motors. That’s where we see their greatness …
And btw, ABB is the market leader in Process Control Systems (PCS/DCS)
Hmm.. This is just a long add for ABB, clearly Kyle has been slamming ABB DC fast chargers that are on the EA network since last summer.
I am an early adopter starting with a new 2017 model X in 2017. Solar panels and powerwall. My Tesla Wall Connector(not charger as level 2 charger in the car) is on its own dedicated 100 amp circuit(actually 72 amp as 20% safety factor) I have the optional 19 kw on board charger. Most Teslas have 11 kw on board charger. Entry level single motor teslas with 7 kw on board chargers. Many leafs and bolts on with 3-6 kw on board chargers. Charging speed dependent on wall connector, amp circuit, and on board level 2 charger. Tesla recommends 40-50 amp dryer circuit good enough as charging while sleeping and less expensive install. I save $600/month in Hawaii on home electricity and gas as electric 44 cents/kwh on a day. Plus must charge during the day vs night as using solar. No low rates at night to charge like mainland usa.
Proud ABB employee 🦾🦾
Hoi Nederlands!
It would have been good if Sandy had asked Chris about heavy duty truck and bus charging standards, specifically the new CharIN plug and MegaWatt chargers. Also of interest would be the challenges to get the necessary electric service to depots to electrify their fleets.
Proof is in the pudding. These things need to work in ALL weather conditions nearly ALL the time. -40°F on the low end. Cables need to be flexible in extreme cold weather. Over 90% real world uptime is required.
I shouldn't have to say this. Sadly I do. These things just don't work properly, yet.
I think NIO battery swap offering is interesting. Not only for the millions that can't do home charging, but the flexibility and future proofing of swapping out a battery, what in 3 minutes?
I do too. I don't want a used battery personally, but I hope others do so it keeps the stock up ;)
@Aussie2u I understand you don't own the battery, it's leased. So a brand new battery or not, it doesn't really matter as you'll only be keeping it for the charge life of the battery.
We got the best dc fast charger in the world
1) universal dc fast charger
2) cordless ( no modify EV )
3) 50% cheaper
4) use 40% less enery to charge
These new chargers need to add a coffee machine.
They need an integrated Porta potty that incinerates waste. And a coke machine.
Tesla charging standard designed by engineers to encourage the adoption of EV’s
CCS charging standard designed by the ICE manufacturers marketing department to discourage the adoption of EV’s making the charging experience as unpleasant as possible.
And be different from Tesla's that is why they blocked the release of the ccs standard till after Tesla had launched their car.
EV ecosystem should just drop the environmental considerations. Let's purely talk engineering, availability, economics etc for the implementation of the ecosystem.
Charging station is very low tech.For home charger we can bearlly call this tech, it's basically a contactor in a box. For level 3 station with such a 'low' tech product there is so many competition and margins are still good but price will be king. For your info a Level 3 charger is 0.75$/kwh ish so 50kw is 38k $ ish and the installation cost is almost just as high
It's not how you stand by your charger..
they all too low they need be think about above Giga Watt +
Can you look at the hyllion class 8 trucks erx
Many Dutch people
Take a shot every time you hear a word 'platform' x)
double for ecosystem. I've reached peak platforms/ecosystem, I can't even remember the name of half of them to find them on my phone anymore.
Love it
Thanks Sandy
Remco? Anybody?
Intro rocks!
awesome!
👍👍
👍👍
Thanks to all you commenters for telling about your experience with various charging networks. I now feel good about buying a Tesla (their chargers havent failed me yet).
Pet peeve of mine is people calling DCFC as level 3 charging. Understand this is pretty but usually how I know a marketing person is talking about this and not an engineer. Going by SAE J1772 standard which is basis of the levels there are AC Level 1 (Level 1), AC Level 2 (Level 2), DC Level 1, and DC Level 2. No such thing as level 3 charging, used to have AC Level 3 charging but no longer in standard. DC Level 2 (400A) usually what think of DCFC, Level 1 is lower current.
How about wireless EV chargers. A year agoi saw video of some road testing in Europe. For like taxi and uber, and for busses. WiTricity, Bruse, Momentumdynamics and maybe ABB
The plug is not vandalism resistant. Ridiculous. It has and external lever that is thin and exposed. Such thing it's not needed if you implement a direct locking system on the tip of the plug as is on type2 ones. Also ABB charging station usually gives problems of connection with the car here in italy.
There are expert electricians in the field of BEV home charging, outside of ABB. Companies such as Qmerit, for example. Home charging dispenser manufacturers generally qualify electricians to do such installations safely and make these apparent to their customers.
Why can,t they make wall chargers with 10m cable who works like my garden hose.That comes out from the box,instead of hanging the cable on a hook?
Why do so many EVs have their charging ports on the left side when we park on the right and would charge from the right at the roadside?
Same goes for gas fillers. Makes no sense
I do like the idea of putting ports on both sides.
I like the Tesla charging plug the most and it's a cheaper implementation than CCS:)
Yes more locking mechanisms that will absolutely rust out and break and stick with a few years of road salt and rust.
accentloos Engels ;)
Sandy, thank you for your continued effort to bring to light the haserts involved with the installation of home chargers.
I can go to any pump anywhere in the country and use my charge card. Why do I have to have a slue of apps to change my car? As you talk to these people, tell them the first to figure this out will win. Thanks for all your videos.
THANKS MIKE,SANDY ERIC AND EVERYONE AT MUNRO FOR SHARING THE SHOW …FOR THOSE WHO COULDN’T GO 🤗😎INTRO MUSIC 🎶💚💚💚
EVBox looks cool. Thanks for showing us this tech.
Thanks for watching!
ABB's business model seems to be a great one. However I see a number of comments regarding the reliability of their charging stations in Europe. Should I decide to eventually go with an EV and Solar, I would look for a company that has a business model like ABB's. BTW, about2 years ago I bought some stock in ABB because of their robotics business. I totally ignored their EV charging business. Now it appears EV charging may become the major part of their business.
I hope you do a video about inductive car charging.
Uhmmm think again. It doesn't take an engineer to see this system is really very bad, prone to mechanical failures. Software may be great but the hardware fails to consider actual people using it.
wonder does he watch ‘not just bikes’.. 🎉 2:51
Now we need a grid that will support these new load demands.
Tell Brandon he promised Build Back Beter,,