Your students are so lucky to have such a great teacher. Wish I had you as a teacher. Contemplating after I finish my current school figuring out how to attend your classes in person.
I'm no longer teaching the day to day classes, I'm more of a guest speaker these days. For more information about our school visit www.rosedaletech.org For more about my online classes visit www.scannerdanner.com Thanks!
Thanks for the revised/condensed updates. In years past I had ignorantly passed over your videos due to the length. Calm down.... remember I said it was in ignorance! In those days the “silver bullet” fix was my go to, whether it was UA-cam or IdentiFix didn’t matter to me if a video was over 3-5 minutes I wasn’t watching it. Needless to say my ignorance resulted in A LOT of parts changing and very very little testing and even less understanding. You’re a true teacher at heart and a blessing to many! Keep it up.
This guy for president. Thanks man. My sister's expedition only hesitates under load. So I'm guessing it has a bad coil. After watching a lot of your videos I finally saved up enough and bought me a used snap on verus. I'll try this technique when I get a chance.
Nice as always! You should have show us the waveform on the driving circuit of that bad coil too. Some people don't have a current probe. Opel also uses triple ignition when the engine is cold. Just a hint.
Excellent as always. Love when the customer cleared the codes for us... so helpful. That test id 53 applies to precan fords i believe after 07 its different isn't it?
Hi Paul, second time watcher, just a quick comment, don't get me wrong you are now my go to guy, but at the four min mark you suggest there will be an eight count between fire pulse for cylinder number one on channel two and i would suggest there will only be 7 pulses between the number one pulse. Sorry if an a hole like myself has already commented about this, I did not SCAN your other comments to confirm. JR your new North of the border admirer.
Good catch! I was most likely counting the sync as 1 and then ending in 8 before the next sync. But "between" them, you are correct! It would be 7 😉 Thanks!
The reason you do not have oscillation in the pulse is because there is no inductance being produced in the coil. Also you can tell that the peak amplitude is lower compared to the other pulses, which is actually more indicative that the coil is not functioning
That is only partly true. There is still a primary winding that is completely fine. It is only the secondary side that is shorted. Oh and the coil was functioning btw, it was just dumping its energy off in the form of current flow and not voltage
Sir I wonder if there is a way to check short ignition coil with multimeter as many of us are not blessed with the scope here.thanks for this awesome testing method
When your testing using a scope, make sure to use an attenuator to protect the scope input. Make sure you check and know the maximum input voltage to the scope. You wouldn't want to grab a wire that had a possible 100 volts on it without protection, neither does your scope! If you understand a magnetic field inducing a voltage in a wire, or current flowing through a wire creating a magic field, that's what's going on in that ign coil. If the coil is having secondary ignition problems, that magnetic field is going to induce voltage back into the primary and that's not good! I've seen more than once in Ford F250's and F350's with 5.4L V8's and 6.8L V10's in years 2002 to 2004 how an intermittent bad ign coil and/or bad ign coil/spark plug caused stalling and a computer code for the Input Shafter Speed (ISS) sensor in the automatic transmission. Replaced all 8 (or 10) spark plugs AND ignition coils. Code never came back and stalling problem ended.
Hi scanner dinner I watch your channel all the time I find your information super helpful although I have came across one problem I cannot figure out on my 2002 Mercedes-Benz S4 30 I cannot get any power the car will not crank I’ve checked the fuse boxes there’s power to them I replaced the to fuse boxes that are in the footwear The entire box itself I’ve replaced the crankshaft sensor which said it would possibly be that in my car would not start I replace the brake light switch still no brakes I’ve checked all my relays out of the fuse box they’re all good I’m not getting power to some portions of both fuse boxes in the engine bay I am doing all the work myself on my car so far everything has been successful that I have replaced but I am now going into almost a month of not being able to drive my vehicle and Not sure where to go from here any suggestions?
If I'm thinking about it correctly. The shorted plug is loading the secondary down, the secondary voltage gets loaded down because a short will draw full load current and doesn't produce a voltage drop. Thus pulling the primary voltage down.
Great video !! Love your stuff. One question , in a cop design would a shorted primary coil winding show the same characteristics in an amp ramp as well?
Hey Danner any diff between back probing the common power wire on the coils, vs amp clamp on the fuse? I would think not and just a preference thing but wanted to confirm.
I thought that is curent of shorted primary. shorted secondary usually diagnosed with inductive probe for COP or wire-clamp for other types (my practise)
I'm guessing a shorted primary would show a much higher current flow when it is switched on. No oscillation because secondary isn't interacting with it in a normal way?
Thanks a lot for great video, but i would have a question to you. What if firing line that goes high, shows ALL upside down on the scope. The 1st and 2nd secondary ignition coil showed all Upsidedown on the scope but the 3rd and 4th ones looked normal. What can be its reason?
@@ScannerDanner another main thing is that spark line of a specific secondary ignition coil jumps higher and on the Same coil shows three smaller spark lines. It continuous regularly. One big spark line and three smaller spark lines...
Hi i have a buick park ave with passkey 3. Im having issues with security system.i have a p1626 fuel enable code. Was wondering if u could point me in right direction. I tested b+ wire, and ign B+ to the vtd module all checked out good. Ground has less than 100mv. But my 2 serial data lines have less then 1v? @scannerdanner
@@tonyfremont I back-probed a coil with a cheap chinese oscilloscope on 1:1 probe and didn't damage the thing. It is rated at 80V max. Maybe it's just pure luck.
@@danielmusat597 there's usually two different voltage ratings on inputs in the specs. One is usually plainly stated and it's the lower one. The other is the max rating, and possibly that is where you got the 80V rating. The fine print is that it should survive the max, but not operated above it for a usually undefined amount of time. Results can be anything from nothing happening through an apocalypse occurs ;), it's undefined. Generally, posting conditions above the max will likely cause damage over time, like reduced accuracy, sensitivity, complete failure etc. It's just something you should avoid doing. I prefer using a 10x probe for everything I can, even very low signals because it doesn't load the circuit as much. Important with weak signals, coils and injectors not so much. I've always been leary of inductive spike situations, just because you never know how high they are, until you measure. I highly recommend getting a cheap 20:1 attenuator for coils and injectors, just to be safe. Even a cheap scope that works is more useful than any scope that's deaf and blind. ;). All of this is coming from an engineering point of view, rather than automotive. I've seen spikes from automotive type relays exceed 300V and seen transistors survive that, even though they had a max rating of 60V, anywhere from one time to never failing. Up to max ratings, things are supposed to survive unharmed, operations at or above them, anything goes.
@@danielmusat597 I didn't mean to make it sound like you were dumb or reckless; I apologise if I did. I just wanted to put something out there for everyone that watches these videos, so that they're aware that scopes are a little more delicate than multimeters. I've killed my share of test equipment in my life, especially in the days of analog panel meters with no kind of autoranging. Learned about hot chassis radios the hard way. Just because it's "ground" in the circuit doesn't mean it's at earth ground. I've been using oscilloscopes for a long time, but never had the nerve to bring them outside to the car. I'm a noob at this. Scopes are a lot cheaper these days and a lot more useful. Battery powered digital storage tablet scopes are something I never dreamed of as a kid (pushing towards 60 years old now). Learned most of what I know the hard, expensive way. Just want help others avoid that when possible. ;). I bought a cheap Hantek to start my car oscilloscope adventures along, and don't want to kill it, even though it cost less than taking the wife out for a good meal. I have other older scopes, and I'm seriously considering a Micsig STO1104 and I really don't want to kill that. ;) After the Hantek, I may buy a lower end Pico. I build escape room props and I could really use a portable scope for on site stuff. I like old cars too, and newer ones, and it's really recently that I discovered how much information could be gleaned from waveforms of fuel pumps, injectors and ignition systems. That's why I'm watching these videos and I want to share back whatever I can to others. Have fun, but he careful. If I save one scope from a blown front end, I'll feel like I've done something useful.
Man this is freaking fantastic , I would have never in a million years think of doing what you did here to find a bad coil like this.
Welcome and thank you!
I love watching these old videos. They make even more sense in retrospect.
Your students are so lucky to have such a great teacher. Wish I had you as a teacher. Contemplating after I finish my current school figuring out how to attend your classes in person.
I'm no longer teaching the day to day classes, I'm more of a guest speaker these days. For more information about our school visit www.rosedaletech.org
For more about my online classes visit www.scannerdanner.com
Thanks!
Thanks for the revised/condensed updates. In years past I had ignorantly passed over your videos due to the length. Calm down.... remember I said it was in ignorance! In those days the “silver bullet” fix was my go to, whether it was UA-cam or IdentiFix didn’t matter to me if a video was over 3-5 minutes I wasn’t watching it. Needless to say my ignorance resulted in A LOT of parts changing and very very little testing and even less understanding.
You’re a true teacher at heart and a blessing to many! Keep it up.
Thanks so much! I've won you over from the dark side I see 😉
That is excellent stuff,thank you for the video.
I am 96 now and l like watching,these videos, l may have a few years left unless this plague gets me.
I wish this guy was my lecturer. Am really learning alot from him. I just dont have a labscope i would really enjoy doing this
Awesome video that shows the main points of troubleshooting misbehaving coil. Short and sweet.
KNOWLEDGEABLE Sir ScannerDanner
God bless you thank you
Sir ScannerDanner
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
Great again Paul, the problems with secondary igntion are my favorite, thanks a lot
We need more like this Paul ❤I love it
Thanks Danner, I use your class for working on diesel engine and this class can helpme a lot with electric diesel engine. Thanks, From Puerto Rico
This guy for president. Thanks man. My sister's expedition only hesitates under load. So I'm guessing it has a bad coil. After watching a lot of your videos I finally saved up enough and bought me a used snap on verus. I'll try this technique when I get a chance.
Outstanding video my friend ,greetings from Puerto Rico ,God bless you
I am from Puerto Rico, I like scanner danner, I learn a lot with scanner danner webside
Nice as always! You should have show us the waveform on the driving circuit of that bad coil too. Some people don't have a current probe.
Opel also uses triple ignition when the engine is cold. Just a hint.
Great work Paul and Caleb! Awesome video!!
Thank you Paul. Good job. Have a blessed and safe week to you and your family.
Thank you for the video! Very informative!
Good luck with your work!
Legendary Scanner.
Thanks for teaching Scanner Danner🙏👍👍👍👍👍and also thanks Caleb for camera man
Awesome video Paul 💪
Great lesson 👍
Good Good teacher I enjoy to watch it❤️👍👍👍
I need a scope🔥
Thanks Paul!
So remember this one. Love the original much more. ❤
Boom 💥. excellent work.i got the book. Now I'm going to attack and go premium SD.
Thank you so much!
Very good re-editing Paul, Thanks Luv your work
Excellent as always. Love when the customer cleared the codes for us... so helpful. That test id 53 applies to precan fords i believe after 07 its different isn't it?
Hi Paul, second time watcher, just a quick comment, don't get me wrong you are now my go to guy, but at the four min mark you suggest there will be an eight count between fire pulse for cylinder number one on channel two and i would suggest there will only be 7 pulses between the number one pulse. Sorry if an a hole like myself has already commented about this, I did not SCAN your other comments to confirm. JR your new North of the border admirer.
Good catch! I was most likely counting the sync as 1 and then ending in 8 before the next sync.
But "between" them, you are correct! It would be 7 😉
Thanks!
Love these videos. Keep them up!
Nice diagnosis
Thanks Paul
love all your vids my question is when there is multiple components on the power feed to the coils what would be your approach to ramp the coils
Keep em coming man , good job
Rob mobile man
Nice work as usual, Paul, and - MISTER - Caleb Danner! 😁👍🍻
Cut and dry. lOVE it.
He is like rockstar for me.
You are the best. Thank you for sharing.
The reason you do not have oscillation in the pulse is because there is no inductance being produced in the coil. Also you can tell that the peak amplitude is lower compared to the other pulses, which is actually more indicative that the coil is not functioning
That is only partly true. There is still a primary winding that is completely fine. It is only the secondary side that is shorted. Oh and the coil was functioning btw, it was just dumping its energy off in the form of current flow and not voltage
Sir I wonder if there is a way to check short ignition coil with multimeter as many of us are not blessed with the scope here.thanks for this awesome testing method
Thanks for sharing SD👍
& Caleb we miss you😉
Stay Safe Guy's❤
Hi, I from Russia 🇷🇺, I am study 📖 electric-diagnostic ))
Тут много россиян. Пол наш батька- всему сынков учит
Дмитрий Иванов ещё бы лучше инглишь понимать
Good video. Thanks Danner
i really like the original vids also bro !
Do you have any videos explaining attenuators!?
Love your content.
I appreciate that! Thank you
Awesome outstanding job have a great time thanks
When your testing using a scope, make sure to use an attenuator to protect the scope input. Make sure you check and know the maximum input voltage to the scope. You wouldn't want to grab a wire that had a possible 100 volts on it without protection, neither does your scope!
If you understand a magnetic field inducing a voltage in a wire, or current flowing through a wire creating a magic field, that's what's going on in that ign coil. If the coil is having secondary ignition problems, that magnetic field is going to induce voltage back into the primary and that's not good!
I've seen more than once in Ford F250's and F350's with 5.4L V8's and 6.8L V10's in years 2002 to 2004 how an intermittent bad ign coil and/or bad ign coil/spark plug caused stalling and a computer code for the Input Shafter Speed (ISS) sensor in the automatic transmission. Replaced all 8 (or 10) spark plugs AND ignition coils. Code never came back and stalling problem ended.
The Snap-On scopes can handle 400v spikes without an attenuator
The value of the oscilliscope.
Great video
Hi scanner dinner I watch your channel all the time I find your information super helpful although I have came across one problem I cannot figure out on my 2002 Mercedes-Benz S4 30 I cannot get any power the car will not crank I’ve checked the fuse boxes there’s power to them I replaced the to fuse boxes that are in the footwear The entire box itself I’ve replaced the crankshaft sensor which said it would possibly be that in my car would not start I replace the brake light switch still no brakes I’ve checked all my relays out of the fuse box they’re all good I’m not getting power to some portions of both fuse boxes in the engine bay I am doing all the work myself on my car so far everything has been successful that I have replaced but I am now going into almost a month of not being able to drive my vehicle and Not sure where to go from here any suggestions?
Thank u mr danner
Nice !
209th im laggin thank you i gotta send you an email watching now i love ignition coil diagnostics thank you
Thank you sir.
Why would a shorted spark plug create shorted looking primary current ramps?
If I'm thinking about it correctly. The shorted plug is loading the secondary down, the secondary voltage gets loaded down because a short will draw full load current and doesn't produce a voltage drop.
Thus pulling the primary voltage down.
Great video !! Love your stuff. One question , in a cop design would a shorted primary coil winding show the same characteristics in an amp ramp as well?
A shorted primary would look different than this. Check this one out ua-cam.com/video/UsPkMmXVbLA/v-deo.html
Sorry, this one ua-cam.com/video/y4r5OcHN5Lg/v-deo.html
Good
thanks
Nice vdo as usual thanx
yes
Hey Danner any diff between back probing the common power wire on the coils, vs amp clamp on the fuse? I would think not and just a preference thing but wanted to confirm.
Definitely a difference in voltage and current waveforms in what they can and cannot tell you.
@@ScannerDanner TY I was unaware. Do you touch on that in your book? I own it from forever ago.
@@woog74 yes sir. In chapter 1 and in chapter 22
Is there other ways to diagnose bad coils, for someone who does not have a scope
You can use other methods. Check out my chapter 22 playlist for more on this subject. Thanks!
I thought that is curent of shorted primary. shorted secondary usually diagnosed with inductive probe for COP or wire-clamp for other types (my practise)
I'm guessing a shorted primary would show a much higher current flow when it is switched on. No oscillation because secondary isn't interacting with it in a normal way?
Thanks a lot for great video, but i would have a question to you. What if firing line that goes high, shows ALL upside down on the scope. The 1st and 2nd secondary ignition coil showed all Upsidedown on the scope but the 3rd and 4th ones looked normal. What can be its reason?
it is normal to see the pattern upside down, especially on waste spark coils, just invert your pattern
@@ScannerDanner another main thing is that spark line of a specific secondary ignition coil jumps higher and on the Same coil shows three smaller spark lines. It continuous regularly. One big spark line and three smaller spark lines...
I mean I haven't seen such kind of activations on the videos.
@@orkhansafarli5992 if it is a Ford, this is normal coil operation at low RPM (it fires three times at TDC)
Is there a link to that fuse tap tool?
Yes, they are listed on my Amazon affiliate page www.amazon.com/shop/scannerdanner
good pro
Hay Mr Paul
Thanks Danner would an attenuator be needed for ignition pulse/
Not on the Snap-On scopes my friend. Other scopes absolutely
Great👍👍👍👍 from 🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭
Hi.i from malaysia..
Wow, what happened to the plug in the preview screen?
I'm curious about that, too. I've never seen a spark plug with that much damage before.
Hi i have a buick park ave with passkey 3. Im having issues with security system.i have a p1626 fuel enable code. Was wondering if u could point me in right direction. I tested b+ wire, and ign B+ to the vtd module all checked out good. Ground has less than 100mv. But my 2 serial data lines have less then 1v? @scannerdanner
I also checked tps thinking a shorted sensor could be bringing me down. Backprobing tps had 2v, but unpluged it has 5v is this normal?
so back probing the coil wont damage scanner?
A 10x probe or 20:1 bnc attenuator should be plenty of protection assuming the input is at least CAT1 rated for 300V.
@@tonyfremont I back-probed a coil with a cheap chinese oscilloscope on 1:1 probe and didn't damage the thing. It is rated at 80V max. Maybe it's just pure luck.
@@danielmusat597 there's usually two different voltage ratings on inputs in the specs. One is usually plainly stated and it's the lower one. The other is the max rating, and possibly that is where you got the 80V rating. The fine print is that it should survive the max, but not operated above it for a usually undefined amount of time. Results can be anything from nothing happening through an apocalypse occurs ;), it's undefined. Generally, posting conditions above the max will likely cause damage over time, like reduced accuracy, sensitivity, complete failure etc. It's just something you should avoid doing. I prefer using a 10x probe for everything I can, even very low signals because it doesn't load the circuit as much. Important with weak signals, coils and injectors not so much. I've always been leary of inductive spike situations, just because you never know how high they are, until you measure. I highly recommend getting a cheap 20:1 attenuator for coils and injectors, just to be safe. Even a cheap scope that works is more useful than any scope that's deaf and blind. ;). All of this is coming from an engineering point of view, rather than automotive. I've seen spikes from automotive type relays exceed 300V and seen transistors survive that, even though they had a max rating of 60V, anywhere from one time to never failing. Up to max ratings, things are supposed to survive unharmed, operations at or above them, anything goes.
@@tonyfremont Totally agree with you. It was dumb from my side to do that but I was too tired and realized only later...
@@danielmusat597 I didn't mean to make it sound like you were dumb or reckless; I apologise if I did. I just wanted to put something out there for everyone that watches these videos, so that they're aware that scopes are a little more delicate than multimeters. I've killed my share of test equipment in my life, especially in the days of analog panel meters with no kind of autoranging. Learned about hot chassis radios the hard way. Just because it's "ground" in the circuit doesn't mean it's at earth ground. I've been using oscilloscopes for a long time, but never had the nerve to bring them outside to the car. I'm a noob at this. Scopes are a lot cheaper these days and a lot more useful. Battery powered digital storage tablet scopes are something I never dreamed of as a kid (pushing towards 60 years old now). Learned most of what I know the hard, expensive way. Just want help others avoid that when possible. ;). I bought a cheap Hantek to start my car oscilloscope adventures along, and don't want to kill it, even though it cost less than taking the wife out for a good meal. I have other older scopes, and I'm seriously considering a Micsig STO1104 and I really don't want to kill that. ;) After the Hantek, I may buy a lower end Pico. I build escape room props and I could really use a portable scope for on site stuff. I like old cars too, and newer ones, and it's really recently that I discovered how much information could be gleaned from waveforms of fuel pumps, injectors and ignition systems. That's why I'm watching these videos and I want to share back whatever I can to others. Have fun, but he careful. If I save one scope from a blown front end, I'll feel like I've done something useful.
Who else wants a scanner, and has no car🤣
💯
boss do you have a free book for your channel subscriber?
I do have an eBook or paper book available from my website
www.scannerdanner.com
Thank you!
Hey
👍
First see vídeo
First 💪
Great video